Astrology is it Vedic ( To all concerned)

September 8, 2003

Om Nam Narayanaayaa

Sri Guruve Namah

Sri Raghavendraaya Namaha

Pranams

Quite interesting to read the debate whether the Astrology is Vedic or not.Many

of the points debated ,before it slightly degenerated ,were worth pondering.

Mr.Rajeev brought out good points about atma and atman, qouting from the

precincts of Vedas.This debate did invoke to revisit Vedas and again dwell on

the points. To that extent Mr.Rajeev achieved his goal

There are four Vedas: Yajurveda,Samaveda,Rigveda and Atharva Veda

I find Atharva Veda is the process document. This Veda attributes the practices

to follow. There are various mantras with Paddhati (Methods/processes) for

eax,mple doing Dwara Pooja,Aasana shuddhi,Rog Nivarana and the process of

chanting.This also espouses the way to worship various dieties.

This Veda also talks about right hand and left hand practices. Because of such

left hand practices (Evil practices), this veda has been set aside by satwik

people.None theless,right hand practices/processes are used by other vedics

like Argya Pradhan,shraadhaas etc.Considerable research has been made by

scholars and one such book is Mantra avar navah released by Gorakhpur Presss.

This compedium gives lots of reasarch insights.

All school of thoughts in our vedic parampara have come form Vedas.For example

,vishishtadwaita philosophy of Sri Vaishnava sampradaya has emanated from

Vedas.Sri Ramanuja wrote SriBhashyam on this.This philosophy says that Atma and

Atman is one. I do not go beyond this as the treatise will be long for the

list.This philosophy talks that God is supreme and sharangati with Shraddha to

him will solve all your miseries in life.

This is what Shirdi Sai says and also Swami Dayanada.Let us not talk about how

you worship but for satwick way of worship.Why this because the various schools

of thoughts emanating from the interpretation of Vedas wanted to keep such

unpalatable processes and methods out of the bounds of satwick parampara and

keep the satwick vritis to bless the mankind.

In fact,there is a satwick way of doing Sri Narayana Pooja,Kumbha sthapana,Sri

Laksmi Pooja etc,as I have already stated.

Having said that is God is Supreme and HE alone will save one from

Calamities,there is also a right process to attain HIM.This where ALSO the

Suktas come. SUKTAS are Vedic hymns selected from Rig,Yajur and Sama vedas.It

has SWARA MARKA (Intonations).Purush Suktham,Srisuktham,Devi suktham etc. are

chanted for Spiritual upliftment.You will find Nakshthra suktham also, if we go

carefully go into Vedas.Taitreyanyakam gives this Nakshtra Suktha. This is Vedic

hymn.

Lord Krishna did say that "DO YOUR KARMA,WITHOUT EXPECTING RESULTS ". Because

what you are eligible for the results ,that you will get and that you are not,

you will not get.This is ordained.This is what SriVaishnava Philosophy, a

school of thought, fro example ,also says.HE controls the UNIVERSE-NAKSHATRAS

not withstanding.

Why do we call Astrology- an Eye of VEDAS?This is because the Nakshtras show our

Karam Phalas. Please read various Sukthas of Vedas .By studying astrology, you

are not changing your life but you are atoning for your bad karmas and do the

right things in the present life."Prarabdha Karma"is one which we need to

understand here.

Our spiritual leaders and Gurus always try to tell this. It is our Prarabdha to

hear them or not.Try to seek a GURU.Vedas are to be studied with piety to

understand the nuanses.

My concluding remark is I am only a shishaya to my GURU.

Regards

Ananthakrishnan Parthasarathy

short Name : Ananth

Rajeev Kumar <satpath1 > wrote:

Namaste AmolMandar Ji,

Yes celestial bodies affect us, but so does things and people around us like a

thief may affect us, similarly the air we breathe affect us As far as the

effect of Celestial body on humans is concerned I agree that sun rays heats

and lights our body and everthing around us ,similarly for other celestial

bodies.

These bodies affect only the body part and as I said God has created our body

system that it has the capacity to nullify the bad effects, like when the body

temperature rises the perspiration process cools the body etc.

But if somebody says that celestial bodies decide your getting the job or

marriage etc. then how can it be possible as celestial bodies are nothing but

non living beings.

Whether you(Atma) is the controller of your body or your body controls the fate of yours.

There are four elements necessary to convey a complete sense of a passage.

1.Akankasha consists in entering the spirit of the speaker or the author.

2. Yogyata in the fitness of compatability of sense. For instance, when it is

said "water irrigates" there is nothing absurd in the mutual connection between

the objects signified by the words.

3. Asatti consists in regarding or speaking words in proper sequence, i.e.,

without detaching them from their context.

4. Tatparya is to give the same meaning to the words of a writer or a speaker

which he intended that they should convey..

There are many people who, through bigotry and wrong-headedness, misconstrue the

meaning of the writer. The sectaries are the greatest sinners in this respect

because their intellect is wrapped by bigotry.

So if you want to show me the evidences which in Vedas are for astronomical

purpose as astrolgical, then they won't be accepted as evidences.

Show me all the evidences within 2-3 days and I will get back to you after analysis.

Regards

Rajeev

amolmandar <amolmandar > wrote:

Dear Rajeev NamasteLets get back to basics. You said "My view point is that

Astrology is used to predict the future of living beings based upon the study

of planets, sun, moon etc. and also to provide the solutions to avoid

undesirable results and attain desirable effects." Yes, but for that purpose

one must accept that these celestial bodies affect out life. This is the basic

of Astrology in the view of many. Put it as yes or no. I never said that Moon

affects our body, I say whole lot of Celestial bodies affect our life. There is

no reference as far as I know about moon affecting human body, in Vedas. But

there is clear cut refernce of clelestial bodies affect our life. How

accuractly we can predic future of anybody is matter of another disscussions.

Right now we are hitting on one point and it is

Astrology has refence in Vedas or not. For that purpose first we must be clear

about domain of Astrology. That is why I ask some basic questions about your

understanding of Astrology and Astronomy. Again I request you to put it yes or

no for "Celestial Bodies Affect Our Life" principle. I am not saying

specifically about moon but rather all celestial bodies. Once I get clear

answer on this I will produce my proofs. To make it clear that I have proof

just read this.The richas of ShanuHshepa rishi Ami ya ruksha nihitas uchha

naktam dadrushre kuha citda diveyuH|adabdhani varunasya vratani

vichakashchandrama naktameti|(rig 1/24/10)Followed by Veda yo veenam

padamantariskhena patatam|Veda NAvaH Samudriya||Veda Maso

Dhrutavrato dwadasha

prajavatH|Veda ya upajayate||Please analyse these two

richas and comment on them. Later I will produce more of them.Thanks a lot for

your Time and Space.AmolMAndarvedic astrology, Rajeev

Kumar <satpath1> wrote:> Namaste Amol Ji,> > My view point is that

Astrology is used to predict the future of living beings based upon the study

of planets, sun, moon etc. and also to provide the solutions to avoid

undesirable results and attain desirable effects.> > I consider these

celestial bodies as non living beings , we can easily predict with great

accuracy their movement in future, like for e.g we can predict the next

sun,moon eclipse ,next task of a machine, but living beings are conscious

entities they are free to

think and act accordingly so no body can predict their future with 100%

accuracy.> > Had we been not free then our master is the real doer of whatever

good or bad. Like for e.g somebody killed someone with a gun then in this case

neither the maker of the gun nor the gun are culprit but the person who

murdered is culprit.> > As far as the example of moon's effect on human bodies

are concerned, offcourse it may have some effect but at the same time the

immune system of human body is such that it automatically develops resistance

to cater such ill effects . Like for e.g every human being is living under an

atmospheric pressure of 1 atm and our body has been such designed. Similarly

astronauts on space mission are given training and the atmospheric conditions

of space are simulated on earth so that their body gets used to of it.So when

our body system is itself there to take care of these

effects then whats these astrologers are doing, are they doctors to take care of

our bodies ?> > Even if we accept the view point of Astrologers and their

believers then all these people should be far far better than the non believers

of Astrology because they already know the problems and their accurate

solutions, moreover when everything is predestined then again whats the role of

Astrologers. > > Can Astrologers gurantee the fate of a person with same

accuracy as astronomers can predict the movement of celestial bodies or

mathematicians can predict the area of a land? if not then its not a

science(truth) but a fraud, because truth comprise in knowing a thing as it is

nothing more and nothing less.> > If you say yes then I ask can you change

those events ? if you cannot then again whats the astrologers doing, if you say

yes we can then why we have somuch poverty and

illness around ?> > Regards> > Rajeev> > > > > > > > > > amolmandar

<amolmandar> wrote:> > Dear Rajeev NAmaste> > It is good that we agree on

number of AVedas and their names. Now > lets move ahead by building

confidance.> > I wrote previous mail to avoid unnecesary debate afterwards. Let

it > be clear that I have some references but the problem may arise that > on

hindsight you may put it as astronomy and I may not agree to it. > This may

cause us to loose the point. So lets be clear what > reference will be

Astronomy and what will be Astrology. In other > words, if you fix up domain of

Astronomy it will be good for me to > examine myself and then to decide to put

them as proof or not. > >

> As far as as Jyotish is concerned,it is shastra of Jyotish. Jyoti is >

obtained from celestial bodies.The branch of Jyotish in which we > study

physical nature,such as its redius,color,its distance from sun > or earth and

its speed of rotation is Astronomy.(right?)> > And the branch of jyotish in

which its effect is express and > accordingly prayer is given then it is not

Astronmy and hence can be > Astrology. Do you agree? Many say that basic of

Astrology is that > Celestial Bodies Affect Our Life(CBAOL). If this(CBAOL) is

> acknowledge in Vedas then it can be said that vedas have reference > of

Astrology. Do you agree with this?> > Lets first fix up line of demarcation

between Astronomy and > Astrology and then move ahead. But be assured that I do

have some > references of Astrology based on CBAOL, in Vedas. > > Thanks alot

for your Time and

Space.> > AmolMAndar > > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

<satpath1> > wrote:> > Namaste Amolmandar Ji,> > > > Yes I also agree

with you that there are 4 vedas and these are > Rig,Yajur,Sam and Atharva. I

have already told that we have > references to astronomy in Vedas. Please give

the references and > after analysis of the same I will get back to you.> > > >

Regards> > > > Rajeev> > > > amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:> > Dear Rajeev

Namaste> > > > Before we get into Good or Bad work and its relation to God,I

will > > try to show some reference of Jyotish and Astrology in the Vedas. > >

For that let me just know will you accept a sukta or Shloka > > describing

that the bodies present in the

Brahmanda do affect our > > life and we should pray for good effects from them,

as proof for > > reference of astrology in any of the four Vedas. Why I am

asking > > this is that I have some shlokas from Vedas describing this. The > >

reference of NAvagraha directly or indirectly in the Veda will be > > acceptred

by you as proof of Astrology in Vedas or not? So if a > > shloka says that we

should pray these hevenly bodies and these > > bodies should give us Sukha and

Shanti then that should be more > than > > enough as proof or not. Or you want

all shlokas present in > > Astrological Granthas to be present in Vedas? Let me

know this > first > > and then I will produce for you more than one proof of

Jyotish > i.e. > > astrological and not astromonical reference in Vedas.> > > >

One last thing be very clear that Vedas means

1)Rigveda 2)> Yajurveda > > 3)SamaVeda 4) Atharvaveda.> > > > If you agree on

this, please let me know.> > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce.> > > >

AmolMAndar> > > > > > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar >

<satpath1> > > wrote:> > > Namaste AmolMAndar Ji,> > > > > > If every work

is work of God then are adulteration, telling > lies , > > doing fraud with

somebody etc. are also work of God. If we accept > > this then God becomes an

adulterator, lier etc.> > > > > > Vedic God does not expect the help of

anybody in doing his work > > because he is all powerful , omniscient. The God

which expects > help > > from anybody is not God but a humanbeing or a fraud.>

> > > > >

Regards> > > > > > Rajeev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amolmandar

<amolmandar> wrote:> > > Dear Rajeev Namaste> > > > > > Thanks for the

wonderful link. > > > > > > >But here the Astrologers have taken the work of

God in their > > hand, > > > >is it not against Vedas and Gita ????> > > > > >

Dont you feel that every work is 'work' of God. Why to single > out > > >

Astrologers? Moreover, what is wrong in helping God? > > > > > > Thanks a lot

for your Time and Space.> > > > > > AmolMAndar> > > > > > --- In

vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar > > <satpath1> > > > wrote:>

> > > Namaste,> > >

> > > > > Astrology is it Vedic ? or we are using the name Vedas just to > > >

brand it as a Vedic science.> > > > > > > > I am of the view that Astrology is

not supported by Vedas . In > > > ManuSmriti it is written that whoever

disobeys/disregard Vedas > is > > an > > > athiest. So those books which are

not in accordance with Vedas > are > > > anti Vedic.> > > > > > > > I am sure

that all people on this forum are not blind and it > > is > > > for them only I

am raising this question. > > > > > > > > I have following point to support my

views> > > > > > > > Vedas , Gita talk at length about the philosophy of

KARMA> > (Action) > > > and says that you have right to

do the action only and result is > > in > > > my(God) hand. But here the

Astrologers have taken the work of > God > > in > > > their hand, is it not

against Vedas and Gita ????> > > > > > > > In Vedas and other authoritative

scriptures of ancient Vedic > > > Rishis no where it is written that sun moon

planets etc do the > > acts > > > that astrologers generally talk about.> > > >

> > > > Offcourse Vedas and other vedic scriptures support all the > true > > >

sciences like Astronomy but not even a single word we have found > > on > > >

Astrology. If you came across any then please give the reference.> > > > > > >

> Moreover by applying tests of truth the truthfulness of > > Astrology > > > is

not proved. The

tests of truth are as follows. I am making a > > copy > > > and paste from the

following site about the ' Tests of truth '> > > >

http://www.vjsingh.com/chapterthree.html#8> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

THE FIVE TESTS OF TRUTH > > > > > > > > The truth of every thing that is learnt

or taught should be > > > carefully examined by the following five tests:-> > >

> > > > > The Veda and nature of God - All that conforms to the > >

teachings > > > of the Vedas, nature, attributes and characteristics of God is

> > > right, the reverse is wrong. > > > > Laws of Nature - All that tallies

with laws of nature is > > true, > > >

the reverse untrue; e.g., the statement that a child is born > > without > > >

the sexual union of its parents, being opposed to the laws of > > nature > > >

can never be true. > > > > The practice and teachings of A'ptaas, -i.e.,

pious, > > truthful, > > > unprejudiced, honest, and learned men. All that is

unopposed to > > > their practice and teachings is acceptable and the reverse

is > > > unacceptable. > > > > The purity and conviction of one's own soul.

- What is good > > for > > > you is good for the world. What is painful to you

is painful to > > > others. This ought to be the guiding principle of one's

conduct > > > towards others. > > > > Eight kinds of evidence> > > > > > > > >

> >

> Direct Cognizance. > > > > Inference. > > > > Analogy. > > >

> Testimony. > > > > History. > > > > Deduction. > > > >

Possibility. > > > > Non-existence or Negation.> > > > > > > > > > > >

Direct Cognizance (Praatyaksha) is that kind of knowledge, > > > which is the

result of direct contact of the five senses with > > their > > > objects,* of

the mind (faculty or organ of attention) with the > > > senses, and of the soul

with mind. NYAAYA Shaastraa 1: i, 4. >

> > > But this knowledge must not be that of the relation of > > words > >

> with the things signified, as of the word "water" with the fluid > > > called

"water", For example, you ask your servant to bring you > > some > > > water.

He brings water, puts it before you, and says : 'Here is > > > water, Sir.'

Now, what you and your servant see is not the > > > word "water" but the object

signified by it. So ou have the > direct > > > knowledge of the object called

water. But the knowledge> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This

knowledge must not be of temporary or transient > > > character, i.e., not the

product of observation under > unfavourable > >

> circumstances; for example, a person saw something at night and > > took > > >

it for a man , but when it was daylight he found out his mistake > > and > > >

knew that it was not a man, but a pillar. Now, his first > > impression > > >

of the thing was of a temporary or transient nature, which gave > > > place to

permanent knowledge later on, when the true nature of > the > > > thing was

revealed in the light. > > > > It should be free from all elements of

doubt, and be > > certain > > > in character. For example, you see a river from

a distance and > > > say: "Is it water there or white clothes spread out to

dry?" Or > > take > > > another example, you see a man from a distance and say:

Is it > Deva > > > Datta standing there or

Yajna Datta?" Now, as long as you are in > > > doubt and consequently not sure

about a thing you observe, your > > > knowledge cannot be called Pratyaksha

(Direct Cognizance). To be > > > that the element of doubt must be absolutely

eliminated from it. > > > > Briefly therefore, that knowledge alone is said to

be Direct > > > Cognizance, which is not the outcome of the relation of name >

with > > > the object signified by it, nor gained under circumstances > > >

unfavourable for observation or experiment (Hence transient in > > > character)

nor into which any element of doubt enters> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Anumaana - inference - Literally it means that which follows > > > direct

cognizance. Two things have been observed to exist > together > > > at some

time and place, when on some other occasion, one of the > > woe > > > is

observed, the other, i.e., the unknown can be inferred.* For > > > instance,

you see a child and you at once infer that he must > have > > > had parents.

Again, seeing the smoke issuing from behind a hill > > you > > > infer the

existence of fire. You infer the previous incarnation > of > > > the soul form

observing unequal joy and sorrow in this world at > > the > > > present moment.

> > > > Inference is of three kinds:-> > > > > > > > Purvavat - is one , in

which you reason from cause to > effect, > > > e.g., the inference of coming

rain form the sight of clouds; or, > > > again, you see a wedding and naturally

infer that some day the > > > wedded couple

will have children. Or, again, you see students > > > engaged in the pursuit of

knowledge and you infer that some day > > they > > > will become men of

learning.> > > > > > > > > > > > Sheshavat - inference is one, in which you

reason from effects > > to > > > causes. Examples:- You see a flood in the

river, and infer that > it > > > must have rained on the mountain from which

the river issues. > > Again, > > > you see a child and at once infer that the

child must have had a > > > father. Again, you see this world and infer the

existence of the > > > Spiritual cause - the Creator, as well as of a Material

cause -> > the > > > elementary matter. Or, again, take another example. When

you se > a > > > man in pleasure and pain, you at once

infer that he must have > done > > a > > > virtuous or sinful deed before, since

you have noticed that the > > > consequence of a sinful act is pain, and that of

a virtuous > deed, > > > pleasure. > > > > > > > > > > > > Aaamaanyatodrishata -

is that kind of inference, in which > there > > is > > > no relation of cause

and effect between the known datum and the > > > thing to be inferred, but

there is some kind of similarity > between > > > the two. For example, you know

that no one can get another place > > > without moving from the first, and

hence, if you find a person > at > > a > > > certain place, you can easily

infer that he must have come to > the > > > latter place by moving from the

first.> > > > >

> > > > > > > Upamaana - Analogy - is the knowledge of a thing from its > >

likeness > > > to another. The thing which is required to be known is called >

> > Saadhya, and tha which becomes the means of this knowledge from > > some >

> > kind of likeness between the two is called Saadhana > > > > Examples: - a

man says to his servant : "Go and fetch Vishnu > > > Mittra." The latter

answers that he does not know him, as he has > > > never seen him before.

Thereupon the master says :- You know > Deva > > > Datta, don't you?" Upon the

servant's answering in the > > affirmative, > > > his master continues: "Well,

Vishnu Mittra is just like Deva > > Datta." > > > So the servant went out to

find Vishnu Mittra. As he was passing > > > through a street, he saw a man very

much

like Deva Datta, and > > > thought that, thta man must be Vishnu Mittra, and

forthwith > > brought > > > him to his master. > > > > Or, take another

example. You want to know what a Yak is. > Well, > > > some one tells you, it

is just like an ox. Next time you go to a > > > jungle and happen to see an

animal very much like an ox, you at > > once > > > know that it is the Yak you

asked your friend about. Now this > kind > > > of knowledge, i.e., knowledge of

Vishnu Mittra from his likeness > > to > > > Deva Datta and of a Yak from its

likeness to an ox is > > calledUpamaana > > > or knowledge by analogy. The

words Vishnu Mittra and Yak are > > called > > > Saadhya, whilst Deva Datta and

ox are called Saadhana, in the > > above > > > two instances. >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shabda - Testimony (literally, word) -

"The word of an A'pt > > > (altruistic teacher) is called Shabda." NYAAYA

Shaastra 1:,i, 7. > > > > An A'pt is a person who is a thorough scholar, we

versed in > all > > > the sciences and philosophies, physical and spiritual, is

> > virtuous, > > > truthful, active, free from passions and desires, imbued

with > love > > > for others, and who is an altruistic teacher of humanity

solely > > > actuated with the desire of benefiting the world by his >

knowledge, > > > experience and convictions. God being the truest and greatest

of > > all > > > A'ptas, HIs word the Veda is also included in shabda >

(Testimony). > > > > > > > > > >

> > Itihaas - History - is that which tells us that such and such > a > > >

person was so and so, he did such and such a thing. In other > > words, > > >

Itihaas is the history of a country or the biography of a > person. > > >

NYAAYA Shaastra 2: 2,1.[The experience of the past recorded in > > > history

can be applied to solve many a difficult question of the > > > day. - Tr. > > >

> > > > > > > > > Arthaapatti - Conclusion or deduction. - It is a conclusion >

> which > > > naturally follows from the statement of a fact; for instance, >

one > > > says to another: "Rain falls from clouds" or " and effect flows > >

from > > > a cause." The natural conclusion that can be drawn from the > above

> > > statement is: "There can be no rain when there are

no clouds," > > > or "no effects follow when a cause does not exist." > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sambhava - possibility. - When you hear a thing, the first >

thing > > > that enters your mind is whether such and such a thing is > >

possible. > > > Anything that runs counter to the laws of nature is not >

possible, > > > and hence it can never be true; for example, if you are told >

that > > a > > > child was born without parents, such and such a person raised

> the > > > dead to life again, or made stones float on the sea, lifted > > >

mountains, broke the moon into pieces, was God incarnate, or saw > > > horns on

the head of a man, or solemnized the marriage of a > couple > > > born of

sterile mother. You could at once know that it could not > > >

have possibly happened, being opposed to the laws of Nature. > That > > > alone

is possible which is in conformity with the laws of > nature. > > > > > > > > >

> > > Abhaava - Absence or Negation.- You infer the existence of a > > thing > >

> in some other place from its absence from the place where you > were > > >

told you find it; for instance, a gentleman said to his man: "Go > > and > > >

bring the elephant from the elephant-house." He went there but > > found > > >

that the elephant was not there. He naturally conclude that he > > must > > >

be somewhere near about. So he went out and looked about for the > > > elephant

and found him not very far from its proper place and > > > brought him to his

master. > > > > > > > > These

eight kinds of evidence have been briefly described. > Their > > > number can be

reduced to four fi History be included under > > > Testimony, and Deduction,

Possibility, and Negation under > > > Inference.* > > > > It is only by means

of these five criteria that a man can > > > ascertain what is right or wrong

and not otherwise> > > > > > > > If you test Astrology against these tests it

proves to be a > > fraud.> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > >

Rajeev> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you

?> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

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September 9, 2003

` nmae naray[ay

om namo näräyaëäya

Dear Ananthji,

Very clearly said.Now in this regard,I request you to go through Astrological

Magazine -November 2002 issue,editorial.It is a very educative material about

Jyotishya- a Vedanga.

I hope this helps you.

With Sri Hari Vaayu Naama Smarana,

Ramadas Rao.Ananthakrishnan Parthasarathy <akrishnan56 > wrote: