Astrology is it Vedic ???????????? ( To all concerned)

[Guest guest]

Dear Rajeev Namaste

 

Lets get back to basics. You said "My view point is that Astrology

is used to predict the future of living beings based upon the study

of planets, sun, moon etc. and also to provide the solutions to

avoid undesirable results and attain desirable effects."

 

Yes, but for that purpose one must accept that these celestial

bodies affect out life. This is the basic of Astrology in the view

of many. Put it as yes or no.

 

I never said that Moon affects our body, I say whole lot of

Celestial bodies affect our life.

 

There is no reference as far as I know about moon affecting human

body, in Vedas. But there is clear cut refernce of clelestial bodies

affect our life. How accuractly we can predic future of anybody is

matter of another disscussions. Right now we are hitting on one

point and it is Astrology has refence in Vedas or not. For that

purpose first we must be clear about domain of

 

Astrology. That is why I ask some basic questions about your

understanding of Astrology and Astronomy. Again I request you to put

it yes or no for "Celestial Bodies Affect Our Life" principle. I am

not saying specifically about moon but rather all celestial bodies.

 

Once I get clear answer on this I will produce my proofs.

 

To make it clear that I have proof just read this.

 

The richas of ShanuHshepa rishi

 

Ami ya ruksha nihitas uchha naktam dadrushre kuha citda diveyuH|

adabdhani varunasya vratani vichakashchandrama naktameti|(rig

1/24/10)

 

Followed by

 

Veda yo veenam padamantariskhena patatam|

Veda NAvaH Samudriya||

Veda Maso Dhrutavrato dwadasha prajavatH|

Veda ya upajayate||

 

 

Please analyse these two richas and comment on them. Later I will

produce more of them.

 

Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

 

AmolMAndar

 

 

vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar <satpath1>

wrote:

> Namaste Amol Ji,

>

> My view point is that Astrology is used to predict the future of

living beings based upon the study of planets, sun, moon etc. and

also to provide the solutions to avoid undesirable results and

attain desirable effects.

>

> I consider these celestial bodies as non living beings , we can

easily predict with great accuracy their movement in future, like

for e.g we can predict the next sun,moon eclipse ,next task of a

machine, but living beings are conscious entities they are free to

think and act accordingly so no body can predict their future with

100% accuracy.

>

> Had we been not free then our master is the real doer of whatever

good or bad. Like for e.g somebody killed someone with a gun then in

this case neither the maker of the gun nor the gun are culprit but

the person who murdered is culprit.

>

> As far as the example of moon's effect on human bodies are

concerned, offcourse it may have some effect but at the same time

the immune system of human body is such that it automatically

develops resistance to cater such ill effects . Like for e.g every

human being is living under an atmospheric pressure of 1 atm and our

body has been such designed. Similarly astronauts on space mission

are given training and the atmospheric conditions of space are

simulated on earth so that their body gets used to of it.So when our

body system is itself there to take care of these effects then whats

these astrologers are doing, are they doctors to take care of our

bodies ?

>

> Even if we accept the view point of Astrologers and their

believers then all these people should be far far better than the

non believers of Astrology because they already know the problems

and their accurate solutions, moreover when everything is

predestined then again whats the role of Astrologers.

>

> Can Astrologers gurantee the fate of a person with same accuracy

as astronomers can predict the movement of celestial bodies or

mathematicians can predict the area of a land? if not then its not a

science(truth) but a fraud, because truth comprise in knowing a

thing as it is nothing more and nothing less.

>

> If you say yes then I ask can you change those events ? if you

cannot then again whats the astrologers doing, if you say yes we can

then why we have somuch poverty and illness around ?

>

> Regards

>

> Rajeev

>

>

>

amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:

>

> Dear Rajeev NAmaste

>

> It is good that we agree on number of AVedas and their names. Now

> lets move ahead by building confidance.

>

> I wrote previous mail to avoid unnecesary debate afterwards. Let

it

> be clear that I have some references but the problem may arise

that

> on hindsight you may put it as astronomy and I may not agree to

it.

> This may cause us to loose the point. So lets be clear what

> reference will be Astronomy and what will be Astrology. In other

> words, if you fix up domain of Astronomy it will be good for me to

> examine myself and then to decide to put them as proof or not.

>

>

> As far as as Jyotish is concerned,it is shastra of Jyotish. Jyoti

is

> obtained from celestial bodies.The branch of Jyotish in which we

> study physical nature,such as its redius,color,its distance from

sun

> or earth and its speed of rotation is Astronomy.(right?)

>

> And the branch of jyotish in which its effect is express and

> accordingly prayer is given then it is not Astronmy and hence can

be

> Astrology. Do you agree? Many say that basic of Astrology is that

> Celestial Bodies Affect Our Life(CBAOL). If this(CBAOL) is

> acknowledge in Vedas then it can be said that vedas have reference

> of Astrology. Do you agree with this?

>

> Lets first fix up line of demarcation between Astronomy and

> Astrology and then move ahead. But be assured that I do have some

> references of Astrology based on CBAOL, in Vedas.

>

> Thanks alot for your Time and Space.

>

> AmolMAndar

>

> vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

<satpath1>

> wrote:

> > Namaste Amolmandar Ji,

> >

> > Yes I also agree with you that there are 4 vedas and these are

> Rig,Yajur,Sam and Atharva. I have already told that we have

> references to astronomy in Vedas. Please give the references and

> after analysis of the same I will get back to you.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Rajeev

> >

> > amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:

> > Dear Rajeev Namaste

> >

> > Before we get into Good or Bad work and its relation to God,I

will

> > try to show some reference of Jyotish and Astrology in the

Vedas.

> > For that let me just know will you accept a sukta or Shloka

> > describing that the bodies present in the Brahmanda do affect

our

> > life and we should pray for good effects from them, as proof for

> > reference of astrology in any of the four Vedas. Why I am asking

> > this is that I have some shlokas from Vedas describing this. The

> > reference of NAvagraha directly or indirectly in the Veda will

be

> > acceptred by you as proof of Astrology in Vedas or not? So if a

> > shloka says that we should pray these hevenly bodies and these

> > bodies should give us Sukha and Shanti then that should be more

> than

> > enough as proof or not. Or you want all shlokas present in

> > Astrological Granthas to be present in Vedas? Let me know this

> first

> > and then I will produce for you more than one proof of Jyotish

> i.e.

> > astrological and not astromonical reference in Vedas.

> >

> > One last thing be very clear that Vedas means 1)Rigveda 2)

> Yajurveda

> > 3)SamaVeda 4) Atharvaveda.

> >

> > If you agree on this, please let me know.

> >

> > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce.

> >

> > AmolMAndar

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

> <satpath1>

> > wrote:

> > > Namaste AmolMAndar Ji,

> > >

> > > If every work is work of God then are adulteration, telling

> lies ,

> > doing fraud with somebody etc. are also work of God. If we

accept

> > this then God becomes an adulterator, lier etc.

> > >

> > > Vedic God does not expect the help of anybody in doing his

work

> > because he is all powerful , omniscient. The God which expects

> help

> > from anybody is not God but a humanbeing or a fraud.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Rajeev

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:

> > > Dear Rajeev Namaste

> > >

> > > Thanks for the wonderful link.

> > >

> > > >But here the Astrologers have taken the work of God in their

> > hand,

> > > >is it not against Vedas and Gita ????

> > >

> > > Dont you feel that every work is 'work' of God. Why to single

> out

> > > Astrologers? Moreover, what is wrong in helping God?

> > >

> > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

> > >

> > > AmolMAndar

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

> > <satpath1>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Namaste,

> > > >

> > > > Astrology is it Vedic ? or we are using the name Vedas just

to

> > > brand it as a Vedic science.

> > > >

> > > > I am of the view that Astrology is not supported by Vedas .

In

> > > ManuSmriti it is written that whoever disobeys/disregard Vedas

> is

> > an

> > > athiest. So those books which are not in accordance with Vedas

> are

> > > anti Vedic.

> > > >

> > > > I am sure that all people on this forum are not blind and

it

> > is

> > > for them only I am raising this question.

> > > >

> > > > I have following point to support my views

> > > >

> > > > Vedas , Gita talk at length about the philosophy of KARMA

> > (Action)

> > > and says that you have right to do the action only and result

is

> > in

> > > my(God) hand. But here the Astrologers have taken the work of

> God

> > in

> > > their hand, is it not against Vedas and Gita ????

> > > >

> > > > In Vedas and other authoritative scriptures of ancient Vedic

> > > Rishis no where it is written that sun moon planets etc do the

> > acts

> > > that astrologers generally talk about.

> > > >

> > > > Offcourse Vedas and other vedic scriptures support all the

> true

> > > sciences like Astronomy but not even a single word we have

found

> > on

> > > Astrology. If you came across any then please give the

reference.

> > > >

> > > > Moreover by applying tests of truth the truthfulness of

> > Astrology

> > > is not proved. The tests of truth are as follows. I am making

a

> > copy

> > > and paste from the following site about the ' Tests of truth '

> > > > http://www.vjsingh.com/chapterthree.html#8

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > THE FIVE TESTS OF TRUTH

> > > >

> > > > The truth of every thing that is learnt or taught should be

> > > carefully examined by the following five tests:-

> > > >

> > > > The Veda and nature of God - All that conforms to the

> > teachings

> > > of the Vedas, nature, attributes and characteristics of God is

> > > right, the reverse is wrong.

> > > > Laws of Nature - All that tallies with laws of nature is

> > true,

> > > the reverse untrue; e.g., the statement that a child is born

> > without

> > > the sexual union of its parents, being opposed to the laws of

> > nature

> > > can never be true.

> > > > The practice and teachings of A'ptaas, -i.e., pious,

> > truthful,

> > > unprejudiced, honest, and learned men. All that is unopposed

to

> > > their practice and teachings is acceptable and the reverse is

> > > unacceptable.

> > > > The purity and conviction of one's own soul. - What is

good

> > for

> > > you is good for the world. What is painful to you is painful

to

> > > others. This ought to be the guiding principle of one's

conduct

> > > towards others.

> > > > Eight kinds of evidence

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Direct Cognizance.

> > > > Inference.

> > > > Analogy.

> > > > Testimony.

> > > > History.

> > > > Deduction.

> > > > Possibility.

> > > > Non-existence or Negation.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Direct Cognizance (Praatyaksha) is that kind of

knowledge,

> > > which is the result of direct contact of the five senses with

> > their

> > > objects,* of the mind (faculty or organ of attention) with the

> > > senses, and of the soul with mind. NYAAYA Shaastraa 1: i, 4.

> > > > But this knowledge must not be that of the relation of

> > words

> > > with the things signified, as of the word "water" with the

fluid

> > > called "water", For example, you ask your servant to bring you

> > some

> > > water. He brings water, puts it before you, and says : 'Here

is

> > > water, Sir.' Now, what you and your servant see is not the

> > > word "water" but the object signified by it. So ou have the

> direct

> > > knowledge of the object called water. But the knowledge

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > This knowledge must not be of temporary or transient

> > > character, i.e., not the product of observation under

> unfavourable

> > > circumstances; for example, a person saw something at night

and

> > took

> > > it for a man , but when it was daylight he found out his

mistake

> > and

> > > knew that it was not a man, but a pillar. Now, his first

> > impression

> > > of the thing was of a temporary or transient nature, which

gave

> > > place to permanent knowledge later on, when the true nature of

> the

> > > thing was revealed in the light.

> > > > It should be free from all elements of doubt, and be

> > certain

> > > in character. For example, you see a river from a distance and

> > > say: "Is it water there or white clothes spread out to dry?"

Or

> > take

> > > another example, you see a man from a distance and say: Is it

> Deva

> > > Datta standing there or Yajna Datta?" Now, as long as you are

in

> > > doubt and consequently not sure about a thing you observe,

your

> > > knowledge cannot be called Pratyaksha (Direct Cognizance). To

be

> > > that the element of doubt must be absolutely eliminated from

it.

> > > > Briefly therefore, that knowledge alone is said to be Direct

> > > Cognizance, which is not the outcome of the relation of name

> with

> > > the object signified by it, nor gained under circumstances

> > > unfavourable for observation or experiment (Hence transient in

> > > character) nor into which any element of doubt enters

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Anumaana - inference - Literally it means that which follows

> > > direct cognizance. Two things have been observed to exist

> together

> > > at some time and place, when on some other occasion, one of

the

> > woe

> > > is observed, the other, i.e., the unknown can be inferred.*

For

> > > instance, you see a child and you at once infer that he must

> have

> > > had parents. Again, seeing the smoke issuing from behind a

hill

> > you

> > > infer the existence of fire. You infer the previous

incarnation

> of

> > > the soul form observing unequal joy and sorrow in this world

at

> > the

> > > present moment.

> > > > Inference is of three kinds:-

> > > >

> > > > Purvavat - is one , in which you reason from cause to

> effect,

> > > e.g., the inference of coming rain form the sight of clouds;

or,

> > > again, you see a wedding and naturally infer that some day the

> > > wedded couple will have children. Or, again, you see students

> > > engaged in the pursuit of knowledge and you infer that some

day

> > they

> > > will become men of learning.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sheshavat - inference is one, in which you reason from

effects

> > to

> > > causes. Examples:- You see a flood in the river, and infer

that

> it

> > > must have rained on the mountain from which the river issues.

> > Again,

> > > you see a child and at once infer that the child must have had

a

> > > father. Again, you see this world and infer the existence of

the

> > > Spiritual cause - the Creator, as well as of a Material cause -

 

> > the

> > > elementary matter. Or, again, take another example. When you

se

> a

> > > man in pleasure and pain, you at once infer that he must have

> done

> > a

> > > virtuous or sinful deed before, since you have noticed that

the

> > > consequence of a sinful act is pain, and that of a virtuous

> deed,

> > > pleasure.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Aaamaanyatodrishata - is that kind of inference, in which

> there

> > is

> > > no relation of cause and effect between the known datum and

the

> > > thing to be inferred, but there is some kind of similarity

> between

> > > the two. For example, you know that no one can get another

place

> > > without moving from the first, and hence, if you find a person

> at

> > a

> > > certain place, you can easily infer that he must have come to

> the

> > > latter place by moving from the first.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Upamaana - Analogy - is the knowledge of a thing from its

> > likeness

> > > to another. The thing which is required to be known is called

> > > Saadhya, and tha which becomes the means of this knowledge

from

> > some

> > > kind of likeness between the two is called Saadhana

> > > > Examples: - a man says to his servant : "Go and fetch Vishnu

> > > Mittra." The latter answers that he does not know him, as he

has

> > > never seen him before. Thereupon the master says :- You know

> Deva

> > > Datta, don't you?" Upon the servant's answering in the

> > affirmative,

> > > his master continues: "Well, Vishnu Mittra is just like Deva

> > Datta."

> > > So the servant went out to find Vishnu Mittra. As he was

passing

> > > through a street, he saw a man very much like Deva Datta, and

> > > thought that, thta man must be Vishnu Mittra, and forthwith

> > brought

> > > him to his master.

> > > > Or, take another example. You want to know what a Yak is.

> Well,

> > > some one tells you, it is just like an ox. Next time you go to

a

> > > jungle and happen to see an animal very much like an ox, you

at

> > once

> > > know that it is the Yak you asked your friend about. Now this

> kind

> > > of knowledge, i.e., knowledge of Vishnu Mittra from his

likeness

> > to

> > > Deva Datta and of a Yak from its likeness to an ox is

> > calledUpamaana

> > > or knowledge by analogy. The words Vishnu Mittra and Yak are

> > called

> > > Saadhya, whilst Deva Datta and ox are called Saadhana, in the

> > above

> > > two instances.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Shabda - Testimony (literally, word) - "The word of an A'pt

> > > (altruistic teacher) is called Shabda." NYAAYA Shaastra 1:,i,

7.

> > > > An A'pt is a person who is a thorough scholar, we versed in

> all

> > > the sciences and philosophies, physical and spiritual, is

> > virtuous,

> > > truthful, active, free from passions and desires, imbued with

> love

> > > for others, and who is an altruistic teacher of humanity

solely

> > > actuated with the desire of benefiting the world by his

> knowledge,

> > > experience and convictions. God being the truest and greatest

of

> > all

> > > A'ptas, HIs word the Veda is also included in shabda

> (Testimony).

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Itihaas - History - is that which tells us that such and

such

> a

> > > person was so and so, he did such and such a thing. In other

> > words,

> > > Itihaas is the history of a country or the biography of a

> person.

> > > NYAAYA Shaastra 2: 2,1.[The experience of the past recorded in

> > > history can be applied to solve many a difficult question of

the

> > > day. - Tr.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Arthaapatti - Conclusion or deduction. - It is a conclusion

> > which

> > > naturally follows from the statement of a fact; for instance,

> one

> > > says to another: "Rain falls from clouds" or " and effect

flows

> > from

> > > a cause." The natural conclusion that can be drawn from the

> above

> > > statement is: "There can be no rain when there are no clouds,"

> > > or "no effects follow when a cause does not exist."

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sambhava - possibility. - When you hear a thing, the first

> thing

> > > that enters your mind is whether such and such a thing is

> > possible.

> > > Anything that runs counter to the laws of nature is not

> possible,

> > > and hence it can never be true; for example, if you are told

> that

> > a

> > > child was born without parents, such and such a person raised

> the

> > > dead to life again, or made stones float on the sea, lifted

> > > mountains, broke the moon into pieces, was God incarnate, or

saw

> > > horns on the head of a man, or solemnized the marriage of a

> couple

> > > born of sterile mother. You could at once know that it could

not

> > > have possibly happened, being opposed to the laws of Nature.

> That

> > > alone is possible which is in conformity with the laws of

> nature.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Abhaava - Absence or Negation.- You infer the existence of a

> > thing

> > > in some other place from its absence from the place where you

> were

> > > told you find it; for instance, a gentleman said to his

man: "Go

> > and

> > > bring the elephant from the elephant-house." He went there but

> > found

> > > that the elephant was not there. He naturally conclude that he

> > must

> > > be somewhere near about. So he went out and looked about for

the

> > > elephant and found him not very far from its proper place and

> > > brought him to his master.

> > > >

> > > > These eight kinds of evidence have been briefly described.

> Their

> > > number can be reduced to four fi History be included under

> > > Testimony, and Deduction, Possibility, and Negation under

> > > Inference.*

> > > > It is only by means of these five criteria that a man can

> > > ascertain what is right or wrong and not otherwise

> > > >

> > > > If you test Astrology against these tests it proves to be a

> > fraud.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > >

> > > > Rajeev

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

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[Guest guest]

||Om Brihaspataye Namah||

 

Dear Rajeev ji,

 

Repeatedly you have said that astrology and astrologers are fraud

without citing a single quote from the Vedas to prove your case. Yet

you persist in asking the people on this forum for a quote from the

Vedas to prove that there is a reference to astrology.

 

Amol Mandar responded to your query in the most balanced and step-by-

step way and also furnished a quotation from the Vedas with a

promise to show more. Yet you have not responded to Amol Mander so

far!

 

Rajesh Mohan also posed the logical question that why was the Vedas

revealed only in Sanskrit and confined only to a specific area of

the world and not the entire world if it be for the benefit of man.

You have skirted this question completely while reiterating your

belief in the Vedas.

 

Chandrasekhar sent you an excerpt from the teachings of the Late

Paramacharya of Kanchi Kamakoti on this subject yet you say you have

given your opinion on the same based on the teachings of Swami

Dayanand. The Paramacharya of Kanchi is considered by many to be an

authority on the religious scriptures including the Vedas. But I

find that it is not your opinion but that of Swami Dayanand!

 

Sarajit raised the issue that nothing in this world can be truly

certain. If you say that medicine and doctors are not fraud, then

why are there so many diseases still in the world? This is the

counterpoint to your question : if there are astrologers, then why

is there so much misery in this world?

 

I join issue with Rajesh in questioning what is the real motive of

raising such a debate as this. It seems to me that you want others

to address the issues defined by you but are not interested in

answering clearly the issues raised by others. On the contrary, you

jumped into another discussion thread when there was no need to.

 

I must also ask you whether you have studied the vedas, and

astrology or are you just parroting the opinion of Swami Dayanand

and seeking a debate without satisfying yourself first?

 

regards

Hari

[Guest guest]

||Om Brihaspataye Namah||

 

Dear Rajeev ji.

 

Namaste. You are making a lot of extrapolations that have no basis.

For instance, you say I am parroting opinions of Gurus and claiming

Guru is greater than God. Now where did I say that? To the best of

my knowledge, I didnt say any such statements in my correspondence

with you. This amounts to an extrapolation made by you and has no

basis whatsoever. You are bringing in personal interpretations where

they are not warranted at all.

 

It is my opinion that you have not answered all the people

appropriately as you put it. For instance, Rajesh asked why was the

Vedas revealed only in India? Or Sarajit asked with respect to

medical doctors as a counterquestion to your own question concerning

astrologers.

 

You say that there is no statement in the Vedas that refer to

astrology. Does that mean it is a fraud? You seem to assert this is

so but again your assertion has no basis whatsoever. Therefore it

can be rejected as untruth.

 

I wish you success in finding the ultimate truth.

 

regards

Hari

 

vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar <satpath1>

wrote:

> Namaste Hari Ji,

>

> I have alreday told about my mptive in many mails it is surprising

that you have not known it so far.

> Let it be known to everybody on this forum that my only motive is

to decide truth.

> I answered ChandraShekar on another thread because of the wrong

things he is preaching on God and Guru.

>

> I have appropriately answered to all the people you are talking

about except the current mail of Sh.. AmolMandar. Right now I am in

a location where I donot have access to Vedas to confirm his points.

I will answer him appropriately after analysing the references with

Vedas very soon.

>

> As per me in Vedas since there is no quote about Astrology thats

why I have not given the references and asking you people to give

it, till the time Astrology reference in Vedas is not proven it will

remain a fraud to me.

>

> It is people like you and ChandraShekar who parrot the opinion of

their Gurus and even accept that Guru is greater than God. I will

reject anybody's opinion whether it is of Swami Dayananda or

ShankraCharya if it is found untruth.

>

> Regards

>

> Rajeev

>

>

>

>

>

> onlyhari <onlyhari> wrote:

> ||Om Brihaspataye Namah||

>

> Dear Rajeev ji,

>

> Repeatedly you have said that astrology and astrologers are fraud

> without citing a single quote from the Vedas to prove your case.

Yet

> you persist in asking the people on this forum for a quote from

the

> Vedas to prove that there is a reference to astrology.

>

> Amol Mandar responded to your query in the most balanced and step-

by-

> step way and also furnished a quotation from the Vedas with a

> promise to show more. Yet you have not responded to Amol Mander so

> far!

>

> Rajesh Mohan also posed the logical question that why was the

Vedas

> revealed only in Sanskrit and confined only to a specific area of

> the world and not the entire world if it be for the benefit of

man.

> You have skirted this question completely while reiterating your

> belief in the Vedas.

>

> Chandrasekhar sent you an excerpt from the teachings of the Late

> Paramacharya of Kanchi Kamakoti on this subject yet you say you

have

> given your opinion on the same based on the teachings of Swami

> Dayanand. The Paramacharya of Kanchi is considered by many to be

an

> authority on the religious scriptures including the Vedas. But I

> find that it is not your opinion but that of Swami Dayanand!

>

> Sarajit raised the issue that nothing in this world can be truly

> certain. If you say that medicine and doctors are not fraud, then

> why are there so many diseases still in the world? This is the

> counterpoint to your question : if there are astrologers, then why

> is there so much misery in this world?

>

> I join issue with Rajesh in questioning what is the real motive of

> raising such a debate as this. It seems to me that you want others

> to address the issues defined by you but are not interested in

> answering clearly the issues raised by others. On the contrary,

you

> jumped into another discussion thread when there was no need to.

>

> I must also ask you whether you have studied the vedas, and

> astrology or are you just parroting the opinion of Swami Dayanand

> and seeking a debate without satisfying yourself first?

>

> regards

> Hari

>

>

>

> Sponsor

>

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

 

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Rajeev Namaste

 

You wrote to Hari ji

 

>>It is people like you and ChandraShekar who parrot the opinion....

 

I apriciate your faith/belief in truth but does that necessarily

mean that you should criticise a gentelman like Chandrashekharji? He

has not said any thing about your personal faiths and the way you

gained knowledge. At the age of 60 he listens to a duffer like me

and accepts me as his shishya. I fight with him as I fight with my

father(My father name is as well Chandrashekhar!).

 

So, if you want to get a argument with him he will take careof you

and all but dont call him with unwanted adjectives. I think in the

path of Truth,one must see that he is not insulting seniors and

Knowlegable persons. See the quote from Rig at the end.

 

I know you are intelligent and this must have happened in spur of

the moment. As a matter of fact you should have shown greater

strength as you are hitting the integrity of people of the

astrological group by calling astrologers as fraud. So voilent

reaction against you must be expected to you. But at the same time

you should be careful about point of disscussions. So at least do

not get in pointing fingers at people like CHandrashekharji who

never say anything personal about anybody.

 

Although,Chandrashekhar ji is capable of answering your query I

stepped in to let you know that in the eyes of many he is a

respected and knowledgeable member (And it is a TRUTH). Seeker of

Truth will appriciate this Truth I suppose.

 

After all you know being student of vedas

 

"Suvigyan chikituShu janaya sachhasacha vachasi psprudhate|

tayoyarta satyam yaterdrujiyastadita somoavati hantyasat||(rig

7/104/12)

 

 

 

Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

 

AmolMAndar

 

vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar <satpath1>

wrote:

> Namaste Hari Ji,

>

> I have alreday told about my mptive in many mails it is surprising

that you have not known it so far.

> Let it be known to everybody on this forum that my only motive is

to decide truth.

> I answered ChandraShekar on another thread because of the wrong

things he is preaching on God and Guru.

>

> I have appropriately answered to all the people you are talking

about except the current mail of Sh.. AmolMandar. Right now I am in

a location where I donot have access to Vedas to confirm his points.

I will answer him appropriately after analysing the references with

Vedas very soon.

>

> As per me in Vedas since there is no quote about Astrology thats

why I have not given the references and asking you people to give

it, till the time Astrology reference in Vedas is not proven it will

remain a fraud to me.

>

> It is people like you and ChandraShekar who parrot the opinion of

their Gurus and even accept that Guru is greater than God. I will

reject anybody's opinion whether it is of Swami Dayananda or

ShankraCharya if it is found untruth.

>

> Regards

>

> Rajeev

>

>

>

>

>

> onlyhari <onlyhari> wrote:

> ||Om Brihaspataye Namah||

>

> Dear Rajeev ji,

>

> Repeatedly you have said that astrology and astrologers are fraud

> without citing a single quote from the Vedas to prove your case.

Yet

> you persist in asking the people on this forum for a quote from

the

> Vedas to prove that there is a reference to astrology.

>

> Amol Mandar responded to your query in the most balanced and step-

by-

> step way and also furnished a quotation from the Vedas with a

> promise to show more. Yet you have not responded to Amol Mander so

> far!

>

> Rajesh Mohan also posed the logical question that why was the

Vedas

> revealed only in Sanskrit and confined only to a specific area of

> the world and not the entire world if it be for the benefit of

man.

> You have skirted this question completely while reiterating your

> belief in the Vedas.

>

> Chandrasekhar sent you an excerpt from the teachings of the Late

> Paramacharya of Kanchi Kamakoti on this subject yet you say you

have

> given your opinion on the same based on the teachings of Swami

> Dayanand. The Paramacharya of Kanchi is considered by many to be

an

> authority on the religious scriptures including the Vedas. But I

> find that it is not your opinion but that of Swami Dayanand!

>

> Sarajit raised the issue that nothing in this world can be truly

> certain. If you say that medicine and doctors are not fraud, then

> why are there so many diseases still in the world? This is the

> counterpoint to your question : if there are astrologers, then why

> is there so much misery in this world?

>

> I join issue with Rajesh in questioning what is the real motive of

> raising such a debate as this. It seems to me that you want others

> to address the issues defined by you but are not interested in

> answering clearly the issues raised by others. On the contrary,

you

> jumped into another discussion thread when there was no need to.

>

> I must also ask you whether you have studied the vedas, and

> astrology or are you just parroting the opinion of Swami Dayanand

> and seeking a debate without satisfying yourself first?

>

> regards

> Hari

>

>

>

> Sponsor

>

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

 

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Rajeev Namste

 

You wrote

 

"As far as the effect of Celestial body on humans is concerned I

agree that sun rays heats and lights our body and everthing around

us ,similarly for other celestial bodies."

 

Here you agree that celestial bodies affect our life but not fully.

I dont understand your last portion "similarly for other celestial

bodies". Can you please tell me other than Moon and Sun which

celestial body affect your body? People say that there is Graha

Called Shani far away from earth. Atleast I have not seen anybody

whose body is affected because of this Shani Graha like Sun. You say

that like Sun other celestial bodies affect your Body? Please share

your expirences with us about this.

 

I never said that celesital bodies affect your Job prospocts till

now. Right now we want to fix up the issue of Celestial Bodies

Affect Our Life principle. You have agreed but partially. So lets

agree fully then we shall come to other quries.

 

The verses which I gave you should be more than sufficent for you to

decide. Please give me the actual translation of it. Why are you

waiting for Vedas copy? Does that mean you are not capable of

translating Sanskrit yourself? Please give me the translation

first. On the other hand I expected it in this reply only. Without

that there is no point in arguing.

 

In case you are going to refer someone else or Book,please let me

know. Becasue that will add another indirection.

 

So right now answer my question How a Graha(Celestial Body) called

by many as Shani affects your Body? Or How Nakshatra affects your

Body? NAkshatra is collection of stars. Above all there is a psudo-

graha called as Rahu which is not even non-living being but Vedas

say that it affects our body. What do you say about this? According

to your logic only Living beings can affcet your life and non living

beings can affcet your body like Sun and Moon but can there be any

affect of Rahu which is neither Living nor non-Living being? Vedas

approve of this. So think more about this before you form your

opinion.

 

As you have not commented on my earlier proofs I will not produce

other. Do not try to direct the things by saying "Show me all the

evidences within 2-3 days..." Now the speed will be decided by your

answers and not by your wish.

 

One last point I hope you will not come up with the excuse by

saying "My copy of Vedas dont have richas given by you so Your

source of Vedas is not correct but mine is". I have everything from

Gita Press Gorakpur which is considered as Authority in printing

Vedic sahitya.

 

Thnaks a lot for your Time and Space.

 

AmolMAndar

 

 

 

 

vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar <satpath1>

wrote:

> Namaste AmolMandar Ji,

>

> Yes celestial bodies affect us, but so does things and people

around us like a thief may affect us, similarly the air we breathe

affect us As far as the effect of Celestial body on humans is

concerned I agree that sun rays heats and lights our body and

everthing around us ,similarly for other celestial bodies.

>

> These bodies affect only the body part and as I said God has

created our body system that it has the capacity to nullify the bad

effects, like when the body temperature rises the perspiration

process cools the body etc.

> But if somebody says that celestial bodies decide your getting the

job or marriage etc. then how can it be possible as celestial bodies

are nothing but non living beings.

>

> Whether you(Atma) is the controller of your body or your body

controls the fate of yours.

>

> There are four elements necessary to convey a complete sense of a

passage.

>

> 1.Akankasha consists in entering the spirit of the speaker or the

author.

>

> 2. Yogyata in the fitness of compatability of sense. For instance,

when it is said "water irrigates" there is nothing absurd in the

mutual connection between the objects signified by the words.

> 3. Asatti consists in regarding or speaking words in proper

sequence, i.e., without detaching them from their context.

> 4. Tatparya is to give the same meaning to the words of a writer

or a speaker which he intended that they should convey..

>

> There are many people who, through bigotry and wrong-headedness,

misconstrue the meaning of the writer. The sectaries are the

greatest sinners in this respect because their intellect is wrapped

by bigotry.

>

> So if you want to show me the evidences which in Vedas are for

astronomical purpose as astrolgical, then they won't be accepted as

evidences.

>

> Show me all the evidences within 2-3 days and I will get back to

you after analysis.

>

> Regards

>

> Rajeev

>

> amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:

> Dear Rajeev Namaste

>

> Lets get back to basics. You said "My view point is that Astrology

> is used to predict the future of living beings based upon the

study

> of planets, sun, moon etc. and also to provide the solutions to

> avoid undesirable results and attain desirable effects."

>

> Yes, but for that purpose one must accept that these celestial

> bodies affect out life. This is the basic of Astrology in the view

> of many. Put it as yes or no.

>

> I never said that Moon affects our body, I say whole lot of

> Celestial bodies affect our life.

>

> There is no reference as far as I know about moon affecting human

> body, in Vedas. But there is clear cut refernce of clelestial

bodies

> affect our life. How accuractly we can predic future of anybody is

> matter of another disscussions. Right now we are hitting on one

> point and it is Astrology has refence in Vedas or not. For that

> purpose first we must be clear about domain of

>

> Astrology. That is why I ask some basic questions about your

> understanding of Astrology and Astronomy. Again I request you to

put

> it yes or no for "Celestial Bodies Affect Our Life" principle. I

am

> not saying specifically about moon but rather all celestial

bodies.

>

> Once I get clear answer on this I will produce my proofs.

>

> To make it clear that I have proof just read this.

>

> The richas of ShanuHshepa rishi

>

> Ami ya ruksha nihitas uchha naktam dadrushre kuha citda diveyuH|

> adabdhani varunasya vratani vichakashchandrama naktameti|(rig

> 1/24/10)

>

> Followed by

>

> Veda yo veenam padamantariskhena patatam|

> Veda NAvaH Samudriya||

> Veda Maso Dhrutavrato dwadasha prajavatH|

> Veda ya upajayate||

>

>

> Please analyse these two richas and comment on them. Later I will

> produce more of them.

>

> Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

>

> AmolMAndar

>

>

> vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

<satpath1>

> wrote:

> > Namaste Amol Ji,

> >

> > My view point is that Astrology is used to predict the future of

> living beings based upon the study of planets, sun, moon etc. and

> also to provide the solutions to avoid undesirable results and

> attain desirable effects.

> >

> > I consider these celestial bodies as non living beings , we can

> easily predict with great accuracy their movement in future, like

> for e.g we can predict the next sun,moon eclipse ,next task of a

> machine, but living beings are conscious entities they are free to

> think and act accordingly so no body can predict their future with

> 100% accuracy.

> >

> > Had we been not free then our master is the real doer of

whatever

> good or bad. Like for e.g somebody killed someone with a gun then

in

> this case neither the maker of the gun nor the gun are culprit but

> the person who murdered is culprit.

> >

> > As far as the example of moon's effect on human bodies are

> concerned, offcourse it may have some effect but at the same time

> the immune system of human body is such that it automatically

> develops resistance to cater such ill effects . Like for e.g every

> human being is living under an atmospheric pressure of 1 atm and

our

> body has been such designed. Similarly astronauts on space mission

> are given training and the atmospheric conditions of space are

> simulated on earth so that their body gets used to of it.So when

our

> body system is itself there to take care of these effects then

whats

> these astrologers are doing, are they doctors to take care of our

> bodies ?

> >

> > Even if we accept the view point of Astrologers and their

> believers then all these people should be far far better than the

> non believers of Astrology because they already know the problems

> and their accurate solutions, moreover when everything is

> predestined then again whats the role of Astrologers.

> >

> > Can Astrologers gurantee the fate of a person with same

accuracy

> as astronomers can predict the movement of celestial bodies or

> mathematicians can predict the area of a land? if not then its not

a

> science(truth) but a fraud, because truth comprise in knowing a

> thing as it is nothing more and nothing less.

> >

> > If you say yes then I ask can you change those events ? if you

> cannot then again whats the astrologers doing, if you say yes we

can

> then why we have somuch poverty and illness around ?

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Rajeev

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Rajeev NAmaste

> >

> > It is good that we agree on number of AVedas and their names.

Now

> > lets move ahead by building confidance.

> >

> > I wrote previous mail to avoid unnecesary debate afterwards. Let

> it

> > be clear that I have some references but the problem may arise

> that

> > on hindsight you may put it as astronomy and I may not agree to

> it.

> > This may cause us to loose the point. So lets be clear what

> > reference will be Astronomy and what will be Astrology. In other

> > words, if you fix up domain of Astronomy it will be good for me

to

> > examine myself and then to decide to put them as proof or not.

> >

> >

> > As far as as Jyotish is concerned,it is shastra of Jyotish.

Jyoti

> is

> > obtained from celestial bodies.The branch of Jyotish in which we

> > study physical nature,such as its redius,color,its distance from

> sun

> > or earth and its speed of rotation is Astronomy.(right?)

> >

> > And the branch of jyotish in which its effect is express and

> > accordingly prayer is given then it is not Astronmy and hence

can

> be

> > Astrology. Do you agree? Many say that basic of Astrology is

that

> > Celestial Bodies Affect Our Life(CBAOL). If this(CBAOL) is

> > acknowledge in Vedas then it can be said that vedas have

reference

> > of Astrology. Do you agree with this?

> >

> > Lets first fix up line of demarcation between Astronomy and

> > Astrology and then move ahead. But be assured that I do have

some

> > references of Astrology based on CBAOL, in Vedas.

> >

> > Thanks alot for your Time and Space.

> >

> > AmolMAndar

> >

> > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

> <satpath1>

> > wrote:

> > > Namaste Amolmandar Ji,

> > >

> > > Yes I also agree with you that there are 4 vedas and these

are

> > Rig,Yajur,Sam and Atharva. I have already told that we have

> > references to astronomy in Vedas. Please give the references and

> > after analysis of the same I will get back to you.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Rajeev

> > >

> > > amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:

> > > Dear Rajeev Namaste

> > >

> > > Before we get into Good or Bad work and its relation to God,I

> will

> > > try to show some reference of Jyotish and Astrology in the

> Vedas.

> > > For that let me just know will you accept a sukta or Shloka

> > > describing that the bodies present in the Brahmanda do affect

> our

> > > life and we should pray for good effects from them, as proof

for

> > > reference of astrology in any of the four Vedas. Why I am

asking

> > > this is that I have some shlokas from Vedas describing this.

The

> > > reference of NAvagraha directly or indirectly in the Veda will

> be

> > > acceptred by you as proof of Astrology in Vedas or not? So if

a

> > > shloka says that we should pray these hevenly bodies and these

> > > bodies should give us Sukha and Shanti then that should be

more

> > than

> > > enough as proof or not. Or you want all shlokas present in

> > > Astrological Granthas to be present in Vedas? Let me know this

> > first

> > > and then I will produce for you more than one proof of Jyotish

> > i.e.

> > > astrological and not astromonical reference in Vedas.

> > >

> > > One last thing be very clear that Vedas means 1)Rigveda 2)

> > Yajurveda

> > > 3)SamaVeda 4) Atharvaveda.

> > >

> > > If you agree on this, please let me know.

> > >

> > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce.

> > >

> > > AmolMAndar

> > >

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

> > <satpath1>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Namaste AmolMAndar Ji,

> > > >

> > > > If every work is work of God then are adulteration, telling

> > lies ,

> > > doing fraud with somebody etc. are also work of God. If we

> accept

> > > this then God becomes an adulterator, lier etc.

> > > >

> > > > Vedic God does not expect the help of anybody in doing his

> work

> > > because he is all powerful , omniscient. The God which expects

> > help

> > > from anybody is not God but a humanbeing or a fraud.

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > >

> > > > Rajeev

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:

> > > > Dear Rajeev Namaste

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for the wonderful link.

> > > >

> > > > >But here the Astrologers have taken the work of God in

their

> > > hand,

> > > > >is it not against Vedas and Gita ????

> > > >

> > > > Dont you feel that every work is 'work' of God. Why to

single

> > out

> > > > Astrologers? Moreover, what is wrong in helping God?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

> > > >

> > > > AmolMAndar

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

> > > <satpath1>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > Namaste,

> > > > >

> > > > > Astrology is it Vedic ? or we are using the name Vedas

just

> to

> > > > brand it as a Vedic science.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am of the view that Astrology is not supported by

Vedas .

> In

> > > > ManuSmriti it is written that whoever disobeys/disregard

Vedas

> > is

> > > an

> > > > athiest. So those books which are not in accordance with

Vedas

> > are

> > > > anti Vedic.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am sure that all people on this forum are not blind

and

> it

> > > is

> > > > for them only I am raising this question.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have following point to support my views

> > > > >

> > > > > Vedas , Gita talk at length about the philosophy of KARMA

> > > (Action)

> > > > and says that you have right to do the action only and

result

> is

> > > in

> > > > my(God) hand. But here the Astrologers have taken the work

of

> > God

> > > in

> > > > their hand, is it not against Vedas and Gita ????

> > > > >

> > > > > In Vedas and other authoritative scriptures of ancient

Vedic

> > > > Rishis no where it is written that sun moon planets etc do

the

> > > acts

> > > > that astrologers generally talk about.

> > > > >

> > > > > Offcourse Vedas and other vedic scriptures support all the

> > true

> > > > sciences like Astronomy but not even a single word we have

> found

> > > on

> > > > Astrology. If you came across any then please give the

> reference.

> > > > >

> > > > > Moreover by applying tests of truth the truthfulness of

> > > Astrology

> > > > is not proved. The tests of truth are as follows. I am

making

> a

> > > copy

> > > > and paste from the following site about the ' Tests of

truth '

> > > > > http://www.vjsingh.com/chapterthree.html#8

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > THE FIVE TESTS OF TRUTH

> > > > >

> > > > > The truth of every thing that is learnt or taught should

be

> > > > carefully examined by the following five tests:-

> > > > >

> > > > > The Veda and nature of God - All that conforms to the

> > > teachings

> > > > of the Vedas, nature, attributes and characteristics of God

is

> > > > right, the reverse is wrong.

> > > > > Laws of Nature - All that tallies with laws of nature

is

> > > true,

> > > > the reverse untrue; e.g., the statement that a child is born

> > > without

> > > > the sexual union of its parents, being opposed to the laws

of

> > > nature

> > > > can never be true.

> > > > > The practice and teachings of A'ptaas, -i.e., pious,

> > > truthful,

> > > > unprejudiced, honest, and learned men. All that is unopposed

> to

> > > > their practice and teachings is acceptable and the reverse

is

> > > > unacceptable.

> > > > > The purity and conviction of one's own soul. - What is

> good

> > > for

> > > > you is good for the world. What is painful to you is painful

> to

> > > > others. This ought to be the guiding principle of one's

> conduct

> > > > towards others.

> > > > > Eight kinds of evidence

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Direct Cognizance.

> > > > > Inference.

> > > > > Analogy.

> > > > > Testimony.

> > > > > History.

> > > > > Deduction.

> > > > > Possibility.

> > > > > Non-existence or Negation.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Direct Cognizance (Praatyaksha) is that kind of

> knowledge,

> > > > which is the result of direct contact of the five senses

with

> > > their

> > > > objects,* of the mind (faculty or organ of attention) with

the

> > > > senses, and of the soul with mind. NYAAYA Shaastraa 1: i, 4.

> > > > > But this knowledge must not be that of the relation

of

> > > words

> > > > with the things signified, as of the word "water" with the

> fluid

> > > > called "water", For example, you ask your servant to bring

you

> > > some

> > > > water. He brings water, puts it before you, and says : 'Here

> is

> > > > water, Sir.' Now, what you and your servant see is not the

> > > > word "water" but the object signified by it. So ou have the

> > direct

> > > > knowledge of the object called water. But the knowledge

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > This knowledge must not be of temporary or transient

> > > > character, i.e., not the product of observation under

> > unfavourable

> > > > circumstances; for example, a person saw something at night

> and

> > > took

> > > > it for a man , but when it was daylight he found out his

> mistake

> > > and

> > > > knew that it was not a man, but a pillar. Now, his first

> > > impression

> > > > of the thing was of a temporary or transient nature, which

> gave

> > > > place to permanent knowledge later on, when the true nature

of

> > the

> > > > thing was revealed in the light.

> > > > > It should be free from all elements of doubt, and be

> > > certain

> > > > in character. For example, you see a river from a distance

and

> > > > say: "Is it water there or white clothes spread out to dry?"

> Or

> > > take

> > > > another example, you see a man from a distance and say: Is

it

> > Deva

> > > > Datta standing there or Yajna Datta?" Now, as long as you

are

> in

> > > > doubt and consequently not sure about a thing you observe,

> your

> > > > knowledge cannot be called Pratyaksha (Direct Cognizance).

To

> be

> > > > that the element of doubt must be absolutely eliminated from

> it.

> > > > > Briefly therefore, that knowledge alone is said to be

Direct

> > > > Cognizance, which is not the outcome of the relation of name

> > with

> > > > the object signified by it, nor gained under circumstances

> > > > unfavourable for observation or experiment (Hence transient

in

> > > > character) nor into which any element of doubt enters

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Anumaana - inference - Literally it means that which

follows

> > > > direct cognizance. Two things have been observed to exist

> > together

> > > > at some time and place, when on some other occasion, one of

> the

> > > woe

> > > > is observed, the other, i.e., the unknown can be inferred.*

> For

> > > > instance, you see a child and you at once infer that he must

> > have

> > > > had parents. Again, seeing the smoke issuing from behind a

> hill

> > > you

> > > > infer the existence of fire. You infer the previous

> incarnation

> > of

> > > > the soul form observing unequal joy and sorrow in this world

> at

> > > the

> > > > present moment.

> > > > > Inference is of three kinds:-

> > > > >

> > > > > Purvavat - is one , in which you reason from cause to

> > effect,

> > > > e.g., the inference of coming rain form the sight of clouds;

> or,

> > > > again, you see a wedding and naturally infer that some day

the

> > > > wedded couple will have children. Or, again, you see

students

> > > > engaged in the pursuit of knowledge and you infer that some

> day

> > > they

> > > > will become men of learning.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Sheshavat - inference is one, in which you reason from

> effects

> > > to

> > > > causes. Examples:- You see a flood in the river, and infer

> that

> > it

> > > > must have rained on the mountain from which the river

issues.

> > > Again,

> > > > you see a child and at once infer that the child must have

had

> a

> > > > father. Again, you see this world and infer the existence of

> the

> > > > Spiritual cause - the Creator, as well as of a Material

cause -

>

> > > the

> > > > elementary matter. Or, again, take another example. When you

> se

> > a

> > > > man in pleasure and pain, you at once infer that he must

have

> > done

> > > a

> > > > virtuous or sinful deed before, since you have noticed that

> the

> > > > consequence of a sinful act is pain, and that of a virtuous

> > deed,

> > > > pleasure.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Aaamaanyatodrishata - is that kind of inference, in which

> > there

> > > is

> > > > no relation of cause and effect between the known datum and

> the

> > > > thing to be inferred, but there is some kind of similarity

> > between

> > > > the two. For example, you know that no one can get another

> place

> > > > without moving from the first, and hence, if you find a

person

> > at

> > > a

> > > > certain place, you can easily infer that he must have come

to

> > the

> > > > latter place by moving from the first.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Upamaana - Analogy - is the knowledge of a thing from its

> > > likeness

> > > > to another. The thing which is required to be known is

called

> > > > Saadhya, and tha which becomes the means of this knowledge

> from

> > > some

> > > > kind of likeness between the two is called Saadhana

> > > > > Examples: - a man says to his servant : "Go and fetch

Vishnu

> > > > Mittra." The latter answers that he does not know him, as he

> has

> > > > never seen him before. Thereupon the master says :- You know

> > Deva

> > > > Datta, don't you?" Upon the servant's answering in the

> > > affirmative,

> > > > his master continues: "Well, Vishnu Mittra is just like Deva

> > > Datta."

> > > > So the servant went out to find Vishnu Mittra. As he was

> passing

> > > > through a street, he saw a man very much like Deva Datta,

and

> > > > thought that, thta man must be Vishnu Mittra, and forthwith

> > > brought

> > > > him to his master.

> > > > > Or, take another example. You want to know what a Yak is.

> > Well,

> > > > some one tells you, it is just like an ox. Next time you go

to

> a

> > > > jungle and happen to see an animal very much like an ox, you

> at

> > > once

> > > > know that it is the Yak you asked your friend about. Now

this

> > kind

> > > > of knowledge, i.e., knowledge of Vishnu Mittra from his

> likeness

> > > to

> > > > Deva Datta and of a Yak from its likeness to an ox is

> > > calledUpamaana

> > > > or knowledge by analogy. The words Vishnu Mittra and Yak are

> > > called

> > > > Saadhya, whilst Deva Datta and ox are called Saadhana, in

the

> > > above

> > > > two instances.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Shabda - Testimony (literally, word) - "The word of an

A'pt

> > > > (altruistic teacher) is called Shabda." NYAAYA Shaastra

1:,i,

> 7.

> > > > > An A'pt is a person who is a thorough scholar, we versed

in

> > all

> > > > the sciences and philosophies, physical and spiritual, is

> > > virtuous,

> > > > truthful, active, free from passions and desires, imbued

with

> > love

> > > > for others, and who is an altruistic teacher of humanity

> solely

> > > > actuated with the desire of benefiting the world by his

> > knowledge,

> > > > experience and convictions. God being the truest and

greatest

> of

> > > all

> > > > A'ptas, HIs word the Veda is also included in shabda

> > (Testimony).

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Itihaas - History - is that which tells us that such and

> such

> > a

> > > > person was so and so, he did such and such a thing. In other

> > > words,

> > > > Itihaas is the history of a country or the biography of a

> > person.

> > > > NYAAYA Shaastra 2: 2,1.[The experience of the past recorded

in

> > > > history can be applied to solve many a difficult question of

> the

> > > > day. - Tr.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Arthaapatti - Conclusion or deduction. - It is a

conclusion

> > > which

> > > > naturally follows from the statement of a fact; for

instance,

> > one

> > > > says to another: "Rain falls from clouds" or " and effect

> flows

> > > from

> > > > a cause." The natural conclusion that can be drawn from the

> > above

> > > > statement is: "There can be no rain when there are no

clouds,"

> > > > or "no effects follow when a cause does not exist."

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Sambhava - possibility. - When you hear a thing, the first

> > thing

> > > > that enters your mind is whether such and such a thing is

> > > possible.

> > > > Anything that runs counter to the laws of nature is not

> > possible,

> > > > and hence it can never be true; for example, if you are told

> > that

> > > a

> > > > child was born without parents, such and such a person

raised

> > the

> > > > dead to life again, or made stones float on the sea, lifted

> > > > mountains, broke the moon into pieces, was God incarnate, or

> saw

> > > > horns on the head of a man, or solemnized the marriage of a

> > couple

> > > > born of sterile mother. You could at once know that it could

> not

> > > > have possibly happened, being opposed to the laws of Nature.

> > That

> > > > alone is possible which is in conformity with the laws of

> > nature.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Abhaava - Absence or Negation.- You infer the existence of

a

> > > thing

> > > > in some other place from its absence from the place where

you

> > were

> > > > told you find it; for instance, a gentleman said to his

> man: "Go

> > > and

> > > > bring the elephant from the elephant-house." He went there

but

> > > found

> > > > that the elephant was not there. He naturally conclude that

he

> > > must

> > > > be somewhere near about. So he went out and looked about for

> the

> > > > elephant and found him not very far from its proper place

and

> > > > brought him to his master.

> > > > >

> > > > > These eight kinds of evidence have been briefly described.

> > Their

> > > > number can be reduced to four fi History be included under

> > > > Testimony, and Deduction, Possibility, and Negation under

> > > > Inference.*

> > > > > It is only by means of these five criteria that a man can

> > > > ascertain what is right or wrong and not otherwise

> > > > >

> > > > > If you test Astrology against these tests it proves to be

a

> > > fraud.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > >

> > > > > Rajeev

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design

> software

> > > >

> > > >

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> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Group info: vedic-

> > astrology/info.html

> > > >

> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> > >

> > > >

> > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

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> > > Service.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

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[Guest guest]

Dear RAjeev Namste

 

I am glad that you are ready to accept whatever is truth. WHat I

could gather from mails is that in your opinion whatever is written

in Vedas is truth. So if there exist a reference present in the

Vedas of effect of Nakstaras and other celestial bodies then you

will accept it as Truth.

 

Before that we have to accept that basic of Vedic Astrology is that

Celestial Bodies Affect Our Life. Once you accept that then I will

show that Veads accept this CBAOL principle and that way you should

accept Vedas have references of Astrology. Do you agree on this.?

 

Regarding, translation of Sanskrit language I said because you may

be then guided by some one eles's thoughts and not of yours. That

may lead to another debate. I did not mean to stop the thread.

 

Now read some of the Astrological richas from Atharvaveda

 

Chitrani Sakam divi rochanani sarisurpani bhuvane javani|

turmisham sumatimichamano ahani geerbhiH sarparyami nakam|| Athr

19|7|1)

 

Free translation

 

There are many Nakshatras present in the Dhulok. They all travel

together and travel in a haphazard manner in a rapid speed. Wishing

well for me I worship all of them and wish that they should give me

Sukha and Shanti.

 

This clearly states that Athrvaveda etablishes the relation between

Nakshatras and human life.

 

The richa says that I worship them(Nakshatras) for my Sukha. It

means that Vedas belive that these Nakshatras Affect Our Life. That

is why the richa.

 

If you dont agree on this then read the next one.

 

Yani Nakshatrani divyantarikshe apsu bhumaoo yani nageshu dikshu |

prakalpyamshachandrama yaneti sarvani mamiitani shivani santu|| Atrv

19/8/1

 

Free translation

[The Nakstaras which become powerful because of Chandrama, all of

them should bring happiness for me in Sky, Antariksha, Water, Earth,

Mountains and in all directions. ]

 

This clearly shows that Vedas belive that Nakshatras become powerful

because of Chandrama and as well belive that they affect our life

that is why this richa. Purely astrological concept.

 

Next it says

 

Asthavishani shivani shagamani saha yogam bhajantu me|

yogam prapadhe kshemam prapadhe yogam cha namoahoratrabhyam stu||

19/8/2

 

Free translation

[28 nakshartas should give me all that which will good and happy.

They should give me power to possess and power to protect. In other

words I should get power to possess along with power to protect and

power of protect along with possess. Namaskar to both Ahoratra.]

 

The thing which you dont have, obtaining it is called as Yog and

controling/protecting what you have is Kshema. Thats why there is

term as 'Yogakhemam'. This richa does exactly that. This makes amply

clear that Vedas belive that clelestial bodies affect our life.

Assuming that you are not too comfortable with Astrology the

term 'Ahoratra' is very important in Astrology which is used in this

richa. In that sense as well it attest Astrology.

 

In the all the richas seen so far it proves that Vedas belive that

celestial bodies affect our life and these bodies are capable of

giving us happiness and that is why they worship these bodies and

demand happiness from them. This is purely Astrological concept.

Astronomy does not have these concept.

 

This means that vedas have references of Astrology as well. And you

are to accept what ever is Truth and present in Vedas. Now I await

for your acceptence of Astrology as Truth.

 

Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

 

AmolMAndar

 

 

vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar <satpath1>

wrote:

> Namaste AmolMandar Ji,

>

> I will accept whatever is truth.

>

> I said that celestial bodies have effect on our body. Like for e.g

the cosmic radiations coming from Sun and stars . Many of these like

sun,moon,earth,shani, brihaspati and other graha have been

described as Vasu in Vedas. I don't think shani, brihaspati they

have any remarkable effect (except gravitational force) on us

compared to moon . One of the main usage of celestial bodies is

for time calculation and finding the directions also.

>

>

> As far as translating of Vedas is concerned , yes I don't have

knowledge of Sanskrit language. I have never said in any of my mail

that I know Sanskrit.

>

> But then why Vedas were translated into Hindi, English and other

languages ? simply because even those who donot understand sanskrit

can read and understand them.

>

> If you end up the discussion simply because my inability to

translate Veda mantra then tell me why these translations are

available then???

>

>

>

>

> Regards

>

> Rajeev

>

> amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:

> Dear Rajeev Namste

>

> You wrote

>

> "As far as the effect of Celestial body on humans is concerned I

> agree that sun rays heats and lights our body and everthing around

> us ,similarly for other celestial bodies."

>

> Here you agree that celestial bodies affect our life but not

fully.

> I dont understand your last portion "similarly for other celestial

> bodies". Can you please tell me other than Moon and Sun which

> celestial body affect your body? People say that there is Graha

> Called Shani far away from earth. Atleast I have not seen anybody

> whose body is affected because of this Shani Graha like Sun. You

say

> that like Sun other celestial bodies affect your Body? Please

share

> your expirences with us about this.

>

> I never said that celesital bodies affect your Job prospocts till

> now. Right now we want to fix up the issue of Celestial Bodies

> Affect Our Life principle. You have agreed but partially. So lets

> agree fully then we shall come to other quries.

>

> The verses which I gave you should be more than sufficent for you

to

> decide. Please give me the actual translation of it. Why are you

> waiting for Vedas copy? Does that mean you are not capable of

> translating Sanskrit yourself? Please give me the translation

> first. On the other hand I expected it in this reply only. Without

> that there is no point in arguing.

>

> In case you are going to refer someone else or Book,please let me

> know. Becasue that will add another indirection.

>

> So right now answer my question How a Graha(Celestial Body) called

> by many as Shani affects your Body? Or How Nakshatra affects your

> Body? NAkshatra is collection of stars. Above all there is a psudo-

> graha called as Rahu which is not even non-living being but Vedas

> say that it affects our body. What do you say about this?

According

> to your logic only Living beings can affcet your life and non

living

> beings can affcet your body like Sun and Moon but can there be any

> affect of Rahu which is neither Living nor non-Living being? Vedas

> approve of this. So think more about this before you form your

> opinion.

>

> As you have not commented on my earlier proofs I will not produce

> other. Do not try to direct the things by saying "Show me all the

> evidences within 2-3 days..." Now the speed will be decided by

your

> answers and not by your wish.

>

> One last point I hope you will not come up with the excuse by

> saying "My copy of Vedas dont have richas given by you so Your

> source of Vedas is not correct but mine is". I have everything

from

> Gita Press Gorakpur which is considered as Authority in printing

> Vedic sahitya.

>

> Thnaks a lot for your Time and Space.

>

> AmolMAndar

>

>

>

>

> vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

<satpath1>

> wrote:

> > Namaste AmolMandar Ji,

> >

> > Yes celestial bodies affect us, but so does things and people

> around us like a thief may affect us, similarly the air we breathe

> affect us As far as the effect of Celestial body on humans is

> concerned I agree that sun rays heats and lights our body and

> everthing around us ,similarly for other celestial bodies.

> >

> > These bodies affect only the body part and as I said God has

> created our body system that it has the capacity to nullify the

bad

> effects, like when the body temperature rises the perspiration

> process cools the body etc.

> > But if somebody says that celestial bodies decide your getting

the

> job or marriage etc. then how can it be possible as celestial

bodies

> are nothing but non living beings.

> >

> > Whether you(Atma) is the controller of your body or your body

> controls the fate of yours.

> >

> > There are four elements necessary to convey a complete sense of

a

> passage.

> >

> > 1.Akankasha consists in entering the spirit of the speaker or

the

> author.

> >

> > 2. Yogyata in the fitness of compatability of sense. For

instance,

> when it is said "water irrigates" there is nothing absurd in the

> mutual connection between the objects signified by the words.

> > 3. Asatti consists in regarding or speaking words in proper

> sequence, i.e., without detaching them from their context.

> > 4. Tatparya is to give the same meaning to the words of a writer

> or a speaker which he intended that they should convey..

> >

> > There are many people who, through bigotry and wrong-headedness,

> misconstrue the meaning of the writer. The sectaries are the

> greatest sinners in this respect because their intellect is

wrapped

> by bigotry.

> >

> > So if you want to show me the evidences which in Vedas are for

> astronomical purpose as astrolgical, then they won't be accepted

as

> evidences.

> >

> > Show me all the evidences within 2-3 days and I will get back to

> you after analysis.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Rajeev

> >

> > amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:

> > Dear Rajeev Namaste

> >

> > Lets get back to basics. You said "My view point is that

Astrology

> > is used to predict the future of living beings based upon the

> study

> > of planets, sun, moon etc. and also to provide the solutions to

> > avoid undesirable results and attain desirable effects."

> >

> > Yes, but for that purpose one must accept that these celestial

> > bodies affect out life. This is the basic of Astrology in the

view

> > of many. Put it as yes or no.

> >

> > I never said that Moon affects our body, I say whole lot of

> > Celestial bodies affect our life.

> >

> > There is no reference as far as I know about moon affecting

human

> > body, in Vedas. But there is clear cut refernce of clelestial

> bodies

> > affect our life. How accuractly we can predic future of anybody

is

> > matter of another disscussions. Right now we are hitting on one

> > point and it is Astrology has refence in Vedas or not. For that

> > purpose first we must be clear about domain of

> >

> > Astrology. That is why I ask some basic questions about your

> > understanding of Astrology and Astronomy. Again I request you to

> put

> > it yes or no for "Celestial Bodies Affect Our Life" principle. I

> am

> > not saying specifically about moon but rather all celestial

> bodies.

> >

> > Once I get clear answer on this I will produce my proofs.

> >

> > To make it clear that I have proof just read this.

> >

> > The richas of ShanuHshepa rishi

> >

> > Ami ya ruksha nihitas uchha naktam dadrushre kuha citda diveyuH|

> > adabdhani varunasya vratani vichakashchandrama naktameti|(rig

> > 1/24/10)

> >

> > Followed by

> >

> > Veda yo veenam padamantariskhena patatam|

> > Veda NAvaH Samudriya||

> > Veda Maso Dhrutavrato dwadasha prajavatH|

> > Veda ya upajayate||

> >

> >

> > Please analyse these two richas and comment on them. Later I

will

> > produce more of them.

> >

> > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

> >

> > AmolMAndar

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

> <satpath1>

> > wrote:

> > > Namaste Amol Ji,

> > >

> > > My view point is that Astrology is used to predict the future

of

> > living beings based upon the study of planets, sun, moon etc.

and

> > also to provide the solutions to avoid undesirable results and

> > attain desirable effects.

> > >

> > > I consider these celestial bodies as non living beings , we

can

> > easily predict with great accuracy their movement in future,

like

> > for e.g we can predict the next sun,moon eclipse ,next task of a

> > machine, but living beings are conscious entities they are free

to

> > think and act accordingly so no body can predict their future

with

> > 100% accuracy.

> > >

> > > Had we been not free then our master is the real doer of

> whatever

> > good or bad. Like for e.g somebody killed someone with a gun

then

> in

> > this case neither the maker of the gun nor the gun are culprit

but

> > the person who murdered is culprit.

> > >

> > > As far as the example of moon's effect on human bodies are

> > concerned, offcourse it may have some effect but at the same

time

> > the immune system of human body is such that it automatically

> > develops resistance to cater such ill effects . Like for e.g

every

> > human being is living under an atmospheric pressure of 1 atm and

> our

> > body has been such designed. Similarly astronauts on space

mission

> > are given training and the atmospheric conditions of space are

> > simulated on earth so that their body gets used to of it.So when

> our

> > body system is itself there to take care of these effects then

> whats

> > these astrologers are doing, are they doctors to take care of

our

> > bodies ?

> > >

> > > Even if we accept the view point of Astrologers and their

> > believers then all these people should be far far better than

the

> > non believers of Astrology because they already know the

problems

> > and their accurate solutions, moreover when everything is

> > predestined then again whats the role of Astrologers.

> > >

> > > Can Astrologers gurantee the fate of a person with same

> accuracy

> > as astronomers can predict the movement of celestial bodies or

> > mathematicians can predict the area of a land? if not then its

not

> a

> > science(truth) but a fraud, because truth comprise in knowing a

> > thing as it is nothing more and nothing less.

> > >

> > > If you say yes then I ask can you change those events ? if you

> > cannot then again whats the astrologers doing, if you say yes we

> can

> > then why we have somuch poverty and illness around ?

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Rajeev

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Rajeev NAmaste

> > >

> > > It is good that we agree on number of AVedas and their names.

> Now

> > > lets move ahead by building confidance.

> > >

> > > I wrote previous mail to avoid unnecesary debate afterwards.

Let

> > it

> > > be clear that I have some references but the problem may arise

> > that

> > > on hindsight you may put it as astronomy and I may not agree

to

> > it.

> > > This may cause us to loose the point. So lets be clear what

> > > reference will be Astronomy and what will be Astrology. In

other

> > > words, if you fix up domain of Astronomy it will be good for

me

> to

> > > examine myself and then to decide to put them as proof or not.

> > >

> > >

> > > As far as as Jyotish is concerned,it is shastra of Jyotish.

> Jyoti

> > is

> > > obtained from celestial bodies.The branch of Jyotish in which

we

> > > study physical nature,such as its redius,color,its distance

from

> > sun

> > > or earth and its speed of rotation is Astronomy.(right?)

> > >

> > > And the branch of jyotish in which its effect is express and

> > > accordingly prayer is given then it is not Astronmy and hence

> can

> > be

> > > Astrology. Do you agree? Many say that basic of Astrology is

> that

> > > Celestial Bodies Affect Our Life(CBAOL). If this(CBAOL) is

> > > acknowledge in Vedas then it can be said that vedas have

> reference

> > > of Astrology. Do you agree with this?

> > >

> > > Lets first fix up line of demarcation between Astronomy and

> > > Astrology and then move ahead. But be assured that I do have

> some

> > > references of Astrology based on CBAOL, in Vedas.

> > >

> > > Thanks alot for your Time and Space.

> > >

> > > AmolMAndar

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

> > <satpath1>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Namaste Amolmandar Ji,

> > > >

> > > > Yes I also agree with you that there are 4 vedas and these

> are

> > > Rig,Yajur,Sam and Atharva. I have already told that we have

> > > references to astronomy in Vedas. Please give the references

and

> > > after analysis of the same I will get back to you.

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > >

> > > > Rajeev

> > > >

> > > > amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:

> > > > Dear Rajeev Namaste

> > > >

> > > > Before we get into Good or Bad work and its relation to

God,I

> > will

> > > > try to show some reference of Jyotish and Astrology in the

> > Vedas.

> > > > For that let me just know will you accept a sukta or Shloka

> > > > describing that the bodies present in the Brahmanda do

affect

> > our

> > > > life and we should pray for good effects from them, as proof

> for

> > > > reference of astrology in any of the four Vedas. Why I am

> asking

> > > > this is that I have some shlokas from Vedas describing this.

> The

> > > > reference of NAvagraha directly or indirectly in the Veda

will

> > be

> > > > acceptred by you as proof of Astrology in Vedas or not? So

if

> a

> > > > shloka says that we should pray these hevenly bodies and

these

> > > > bodies should give us Sukha and Shanti then that should be

> more

> > > than

> > > > enough as proof or not. Or you want all shlokas present in

> > > > Astrological Granthas to be present in Vedas? Let me know

this

> > > first

> > > > and then I will produce for you more than one proof of

Jyotish

> > > i.e.

> > > > astrological and not astromonical reference in Vedas.

> > > >

> > > > One last thing be very clear that Vedas means 1)Rigveda 2)

> > > Yajurveda

> > > > 3)SamaVeda 4) Atharvaveda.

> > > >

> > > > If you agree on this, please let me know.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce.

> > > >

> > > > AmolMAndar

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

> > > <satpath1>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > Namaste AmolMAndar Ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > If every work is work of God then are adulteration,

telling

> > > lies ,

> > > > doing fraud with somebody etc. are also work of God. If we

> > accept

> > > > this then God becomes an adulterator, lier etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > Vedic God does not expect the help of anybody in doing

his

> > work

> > > > because he is all powerful , omniscient. The God which

expects

> > > help

> > > > from anybody is not God but a humanbeing or a fraud.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > >

> > > > > Rajeev

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Rajeev Namaste

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for the wonderful link.

> > > > >

> > > > > >But here the Astrologers have taken the work of God in

> their

> > > > hand,

> > > > > >is it not against Vedas and Gita ????

> > > > >

> > > > > Dont you feel that every work is 'work' of God. Why to

> single

> > > out

> > > > > Astrologers? Moreover, what is wrong in helping God?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

> > > > >

> > > > > AmolMAndar

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

> > > > <satpath1>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > Namaste,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Astrology is it Vedic ? or we are using the name Vedas

> just

> > to

> > > > > brand it as a Vedic science.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am of the view that Astrology is not supported by

> Vedas .

> > In

> > > > > ManuSmriti it is written that whoever disobeys/disregard

> Vedas

> > > is

> > > > an

> > > > > athiest. So those books which are not in accordance with

> Vedas

> > > are

> > > > > anti Vedic.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am sure that all people on this forum are not blind

> and

> > it

> > > > is

> > > > > for them only I am raising this question.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have following point to support my views

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Vedas , Gita talk at length about the philosophy of KARMA

> > > > (Action)

> > > > > and says that you have right to do the action only and

> result

> > is

> > > > in

> > > > > my(God) hand. But here the Astrologers have taken the work

> of

> > > God

> > > > in

> > > > > their hand, is it not against Vedas and Gita ????

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In Vedas and other authoritative scriptures of ancient

> Vedic

> > > > > Rishis no where it is written that sun moon planets etc do

> the

> > > > acts

> > > > > that astrologers generally talk about.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Offcourse Vedas and other vedic scriptures support all

the

> > > true

> > > > > sciences like Astronomy but not even a single word we have

> > found

> > > > on

> > > > > Astrology. If you came across any then please give the

> > reference.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Moreover by applying tests of truth the truthfulness of

> > > > Astrology

> > > > > is not proved. The tests of truth are as follows. I am

> making

> > a

> > > > copy

> > > > > and paste from the following site about the ' Tests of

> truth '

> > > > > > http://www.vjsingh.com/chapterthree.html#8

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > THE FIVE TESTS OF TRUTH

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The truth of every thing that is learnt or taught should

> be

> > > > > carefully examined by the following five tests:-

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The Veda and nature of God - All that conforms to the

> > > > teachings

> > > > > of the Vedas, nature, attributes and characteristics of

God

> is

> > > > > right, the reverse is wrong.

> > > > > > Laws of Nature - All that tallies with laws of nature

> is

> > > > true,

> > > > > the reverse untrue; e.g., the statement that a child is

born

> > > > without

> > > > > the sexual union of its parents, being opposed to the laws

> of

> > > > nature

> > > > > can never be true.

> > > > > > The practice and teachings of A'ptaas, -i.e., pious,

> > > > truthful,

> > > > > unprejudiced, honest, and learned men. All that is

unopposed

> > to

> > > > > their practice and teachings is acceptable and the reverse

> is

> > > > > unacceptable.

> > > > > > The purity and conviction of one's own soul. - What

is

> > good

> > > > for

> > > > > you is good for the world. What is painful to you is

painful

> > to

> > > > > others. This ought to be the guiding principle of one's

> > conduct

> > > > > towards others.

> > > > > > Eight kinds of evidence

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Direct Cognizance.

> > > > > > Inference.

> > > > > > Analogy.

> > > > > > Testimony.

> > > > > > History.

> > > > > > Deduction.

> > > > > > Possibility.

> > > > > > Non-existence or Negation.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Direct Cognizance (Praatyaksha) is that kind of

> > knowledge,

> > > > > which is the result of direct contact of the five senses

> with

> > > > their

> > > > > objects,* of the mind (faculty or organ of attention) with

> the

> > > > > senses, and of the soul with mind. NYAAYA Shaastraa 1: i,

4.

> > > > > > But this knowledge must not be that of the

relation

> of

> > > > words

> > > > > with the things signified, as of the word "water" with the

> > fluid

> > > > > called "water", For example, you ask your servant to bring

> you

> > > > some

> > > > > water. He brings water, puts it before you, and

says : 'Here

> > is

> > > > > water, Sir.' Now, what you and your servant see is not the

> > > > > word "water" but the object signified by it. So ou have

the

> > > direct

> > > > > knowledge of the object called water. But the knowledge

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This knowledge must not be of temporary or

transient

> > > > > character, i.e., not the product of observation under

> > > unfavourable

> > > > > circumstances; for example, a person saw something at

night

> > and

> > > > took

> > > > > it for a man , but when it was daylight he found out his

> > mistake

> > > > and

> > > > > knew that it was not a man, but a pillar. Now, his first

> > > > impression

> > > > > of the thing was of a temporary or transient nature, which

> > gave

> > > > > place to permanent knowledge later on, when the true

nature

> of

> > > the

> > > > > thing was revealed in the light.

> > > > > > It should be free from all elements of doubt, and

be

> > > > certain

> > > > > in character. For example, you see a river from a distance

> and

> > > > > say: "Is it water there or white clothes spread out to

dry?"

> > Or

> > > > take

> > > > > another example, you see a man from a distance and say: Is

> it

> > > Deva

> > > > > Datta standing there or Yajna Datta?" Now, as long as you

> are

> > in

> > > > > doubt and consequently not sure about a thing you observe,

> > your

> > > > > knowledge cannot be called Pratyaksha (Direct Cognizance).

> To

> > be

> > > > > that the element of doubt must be absolutely eliminated

from

> > it.

> > > > > > Briefly therefore, that knowledge alone is said to be

> Direct

> > > > > Cognizance, which is not the outcome of the relation of

name

> > > with

> > > > > the object signified by it, nor gained under circumstances

> > > > > unfavourable for observation or experiment (Hence

transient

> in

> > > > > character) nor into which any element of doubt enters

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anumaana - inference - Literally it means that which

> follows

> > > > > direct cognizance. Two things have been observed to exist

> > > together

> > > > > at some time and place, when on some other occasion, one

of

> > the

> > > > woe

> > > > > is observed, the other, i.e., the unknown can be

inferred.*

> > For

> > > > > instance, you see a child and you at once infer that he

must

> > > have

> > > > > had parents. Again, seeing the smoke issuing from behind a

> > hill

> > > > you

> > > > > infer the existence of fire. You infer the previous

> > incarnation

> > > of

> > > > > the soul form observing unequal joy and sorrow in this

world

> > at

> > > > the

> > > > > present moment.

> > > > > > Inference is of three kinds:-

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Purvavat - is one , in which you reason from cause to

> > > effect,

> > > > > e.g., the inference of coming rain form the sight of

clouds;

> > or,

> > > > > again, you see a wedding and naturally infer that some day

> the

> > > > > wedded couple will have children. Or, again, you see

> students

> > > > > engaged in the pursuit of knowledge and you infer that

some

> > day

> > > > they

> > > > > will become men of learning.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sheshavat - inference is one, in which you reason from

> > effects

> > > > to

> > > > > causes. Examples:- You see a flood in the river, and infer

> > that

> > > it

> > > > > must have rained on the mountain from which the river

> issues.

> > > > Again,

> > > > > you see a child and at once infer that the child must have

> had

> > a

> > > > > father. Again, you see this world and infer the existence

of

> > the

> > > > > Spiritual cause - the Creator, as well as of a Material

> cause -

> >

> > > > the

> > > > > elementary matter. Or, again, take another example. When

you

> > se

> > > a

> > > > > man in pleasure and pain, you at once infer that he must

> have

> > > done

> > > > a

> > > > > virtuous or sinful deed before, since you have noticed

that

> > the

> > > > > consequence of a sinful act is pain, and that of a

virtuous

> > > deed,

> > > > > pleasure.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Aaamaanyatodrishata - is that kind of inference, in

which

> > > there

> > > > is

> > > > > no relation of cause and effect between the known datum

and

> > the

> > > > > thing to be inferred, but there is some kind of similarity

> > > between

> > > > > the two. For example, you know that no one can get another

> > place

> > > > > without moving from the first, and hence, if you find a

> person

> > > at

> > > > a

> > > > > certain place, you can easily infer that he must have come

> to

> > > the

> > > > > latter place by moving from the first.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Upamaana - Analogy - is the knowledge of a thing from

its

> > > > likeness

> > > > > to another. The thing which is required to be known is

> called

> > > > > Saadhya, and tha which becomes the means of this knowledge

> > from

> > > > some

> > > > > kind of likeness between the two is called Saadhana

> > > > > > Examples: - a man says to his servant : "Go and fetch

> Vishnu

> > > > > Mittra." The latter answers that he does not know him, as

he

> > has

> > > > > never seen him before. Thereupon the master says :- You

know

> > > Deva

> > > > > Datta, don't you?" Upon the servant's answering in the

> > > > affirmative,

> > > > > his master continues: "Well, Vishnu Mittra is just like

Deva

> > > > Datta."

> > > > > So the servant went out to find Vishnu Mittra. As he was

> > passing

> > > > > through a street, he saw a man very much like Deva Datta,

> and

> > > > > thought that, thta man must be Vishnu Mittra, and

forthwith

> > > > brought

> > > > > him to his master.

> > > > > > Or, take another example. You want to know what a Yak

is.

> > > Well,

> > > > > some one tells you, it is just like an ox. Next time you

go

> to

> > a

> > > > > jungle and happen to see an animal very much like an ox,

you

> > at

> > > > once

> > > > > know that it is the Yak you asked your friend about. Now

> this

> > > kind

> > > > > of knowledge, i.e., knowledge of Vishnu Mittra from his

> > likeness

> > > > to

> > > > > Deva Datta and of a Yak from its likeness to an ox is

> > > > calledUpamaana

> > > > > or knowledge by analogy. The words Vishnu Mittra and Yak

are

> > > > called

> > > > > Saadhya, whilst Deva Datta and ox are called Saadhana, in

> the

> > > > above

> > > > > two instances.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Shabda - Testimony (literally, word) - "The word of an

> A'pt

> > > > > (altruistic teacher) is called Shabda." NYAAYA Shaastra

> 1:,i,

> > 7.

> > > > > > An A'pt is a person who is a thorough scholar, we versed

> in

> > > all

> > > > > the sciences and philosophies, physical and spiritual, is

> > > > virtuous,

> > > > > truthful, active, free from passions and desires, imbued

> with

> > > love

> > > > > for others, and who is an altruistic teacher of humanity

> > solely

> > > > > actuated with the desire of benefiting the world by his

> > > knowledge,

> > > > > experience and convictions. God being the truest and

> greatest

> > of

> > > > all

> > > > > A'ptas, HIs word the Veda is also included in shabda

> > > (Testimony).

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Itihaas - History - is that which tells us that such and

> > such

> > > a

> > > > > person was so and so, he did such and such a thing. In

other

> > > > words,

> > > > > Itihaas is the history of a country or the biography of a

> > > person.

> > > > > NYAAYA Shaastra 2: 2,1.[The experience of the past

recorded

> in

> > > > > history can be applied to solve many a difficult question

of

> > the

> > > > > day. - Tr.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Arthaapatti - Conclusion or deduction. - It is a

> conclusion

> > > > which

> > > > > naturally follows from the statement of a fact; for

> instance,

> > > one

> > > > > says to another: "Rain falls from clouds" or " and effect

> > flows

> > > > from

> > > > > a cause." The natural conclusion that can be drawn from

the

> > > above

> > > > > statement is: "There can be no rain when there are no

> clouds,"

> > > > > or "no effects follow when a cause does not exist."

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sambhava - possibility. - When you hear a thing, the

first

> > > thing

> > > > > that enters your mind is whether such and such a thing is

> > > > possible.

> > > > > Anything that runs counter to the laws of nature is not

> > > possible,

> > > > > and hence it can never be true; for example, if you are

told

> > > that

> > > > a

> > > > > child was born without parents, such and such a person

> raised

> > > the

> > > > > dead to life again, or made stones float on the sea,

lifted

> > > > > mountains, broke the moon into pieces, was God incarnate,

or

> > saw

> > > > > horns on the head of a man, or solemnized the marriage of

a

> > > couple

> > > > > born of sterile mother. You could at once know that it

could

> > not

> > > > > have possibly happened, being opposed to the laws of

Nature.

> > > That

> > > > > alone is possible which is in conformity with the laws of

> > > nature.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Abhaava - Absence or Negation.- You infer the existence

of

> a

> > > > thing

> > > > > in some other place from its absence from the place where

> you

> > > were

> > > > > told you find it; for instance, a gentleman said to his

> > man: "Go

> > > > and

> > > > > bring the elephant from the elephant-house." He went there

> but

> > > > found

> > > > > that the elephant was not there. He naturally conclude

that

> he

> > > > must

> > > > > be somewhere near about. So he went out and looked about

for

> > the

> > > > > elephant and found him not very far from its proper place

> and

> > > > > brought him to his master.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > These eight kinds of evidence have been briefly

described.

> > > Their

> > > > > number can be reduced to four fi History be included under

> > > > > Testimony, and Deduction, Possibility, and Negation under

> > > > > Inference.*

> > > > > > It is only by means of these five criteria that a man

can

> > > > > ascertain what is right or wrong and not otherwise

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you test Astrology against these tests it proves to

be

> a

> > > > fraud.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rajeev

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design

> > software

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Sponsor

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Group info: vedic-

> > > astrology/info.html

> > > > >

> > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Terms

of

> > > > Service.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design

> software

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sponsor

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Group info: vedic-

> > astrology/info.html

> > > >

> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> > >

> > > >

> > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Terms of

> > > Service.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design

software

> > >

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[Guest guest]

Dear Rajeev Namste

 

I knew that you would reject but I never thought that you would do

it in this fashion.

 

You wrote

"First of all lets understand what does the worship of Nakshatras

means here. Worship of Nakshatras here means that we should learn

about their qualities, rotation motion etc. and nothing more than

that. "

 

In that case they should have written 'I learn' instead I worship.

Universally worship means pooja and Learning means Abyasa. See the

words used for indicating worship in the sloka.Does that mean

Learning? No. It does not mean by any chance learning. WHat ever you

have done is pure rationlization of the shloka. If you see the

actual word used in the shlokas then you will understand. It is your

interpretation that worship means learning but not supoorted by

Sanskrit or English dictionary. Is there any reference of elicpse in

the richa? Whithout any reference why are you assuming they were

refering to solar eclipse and moon tides? In that case it can mean

anything under the Sun! Like collision of Stars or blak hole

formation. Is it not?. But we should see the richa and then decide.

You are not applying correct logic to understand the richa.

 

See what has happened, you are analysing my interpretation but not

why i translated that richa in that fashion. Dont try to make me

understand what my translation means. If I can translate it then I

know what it means.Try to see whether translation is correct or not.

If it is so then you will understand the words used are intentional.

Had it not so I would have used the word 'Learn' instead 'Worship'.

Once you do that then follow the dictionary to know what worship

means. So remove your bias and try to see the world. On one side you

say "God is biasless so we should try to become" but does not follow

it. Very funny!

 

Come next

 

 

Now you are confused yourself. You say "We are able to see stars in

night time and thats what there becoming powerful by chandrama

implies.During day due to sun light we are not able to see them."

 

This statement one can make only because of lack of porper knowledge

or bias or confusion. You have right now all three qualities. Read

agin I am sure you will realize what have you said.

Look at the words used in richa and decide. This you could have said

without I producing any proof. Since you are not talking about proof

rather it is predetermined thought process getting expressed.

 

Come Next

 

You wrote

"As I said earlier that celestial bodies are helpful in deciding

time and direction and by learning about the science of stars we

become powerful and protector. Becoming powerful and protector here

means learning the fusion and fission process of stars for making

weapons as well as using them for generating electricity, and

medicine sciences etc."

 

See to say all these, you dont require any proof. Why have you

waited so long to say this? I would have appriciated it. We are

trying to find Truth with the proofs given and not what you know

about your Truth. Why have you restricted yourself to learning

fusion and fission process? It could have been landing on them and

then start a star war as well! Who knows? Let there be any thing in

the richa, why should we bother about it? We are not concerned about

the word used and their meaning per dictionary, we are interested in

putting our thought some how or the other. Isnt it? Read once again

what are you saying vis-avis richa.

 

>By no other way you become powerful and protector better than

this,and this is what the sukh and >shanti we can acquire from them.

 

Here you are sounding like a God unwantedly. Who are you to decide

what and how Sukha shanti is obtained? There is a good and simple

way of understanding these words. But you will try to see what is

not present in it.

 

All in all it seems that you are predetermined in your thought and

idealogy and come what may you will say that it is against

Astrology. Very strange. I thought that you would examine the proof

and will then say your opinion. But here I realized that what ever

you have said you could have said it with out my finding richas in

the vedas.

 

That is why I asked do you know Sanskrit? When you do not know

Sanskrit then that adds up indirections. What has happned is exactly

that. You have my translation rather than translating it yourself.

Read the Sanskrit version again and examine the words used and try

to come-up with your translation then you will understand what is

learning and what is worshiping.

 

Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce.

 

AmolMAndar

 

 

 

 

vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar <satpath1>

wrote:

> Namaste AmolMandar Ji,

>

> I said that if Astrology (as concept of Fate ) is in Vedas then it

will be accepted by me.

> I never said that celestial body donot affect our life but the

extent to which they affect is mostly taken care of by our body

system.

> In case of solar eclipses when the radiation is strong it is

astronomy which helps people to avoid the bad effects of sun rays,

likewise during full tide and low tides people avoid swimming in

seas. So it is astronomy using which we can makes accurate

calculations about the effect of celestial bodies on us.

>

> In my many mails I have repeatedly said that Astronomy is a vedic

science.

>

> Now coming to the analysis of Vedic Mantras that you have given

>

> The first Mantra u gave is :

>

> There are many Nakshatras present in the Dhulok. They all travel

together and travel in a haphazard manner in a rapid speed. Wishing

well for me I worship all of them and wish that they should give me

Sukha and Shanti.Athr 19|7|1

>

>

> My Analysis on your first mantra :

>

> First of all lets understand what does the worship of Nakshatras

means here. Worship of Nakshatras here means that we should learn

about their qualities, rotation motion etc. and nothing more than

that. These are non living beings(material things) only and

worshipping of non living beings lies in knowing them understanding

them as it is, and not like Poraniks who consider them as living

beings and pray them as living beings.

>

> I gave the example of solar eclipse and moon tides above usinng

Astronomy we prevents the bad effect of them on us and this is where

the sukh and shanti we achieve from them.

> Because the more we know of them the more better we become it

means Astronomy here and Astrology is not proven by the

interpretation you gave.

>

> As far as Stars are concerned they are all like Sun only and are

ver far away , they can be used in deciding the direction and time

and also for learning of fusion and fission processes for knowing

the source to tremendous amount of energy. But not the kind of

time ,direction and power the astrologers preaches.

>

> Worshipping of Gurus ,parents and ancestors lies in respecting

them and learning and acquiring true knowledge from them. The

reverse is untruth.

>

> Similarly worshipping of God lies in acquiring true knowledge from

him , and trying to improve the character of self.Like for. e.g God

is all powerful so trying to remain healthy,God is omniscient so we

should also try to be knowledgable, God is kind so we should be

kind to others, God is biasless so we should try to become ,this is

the true worship of God and if somebody just chant Vedic mantra and

do not improve his character, his worship to God is a waste.

>

> Here is one more mantra in support of my view

>

> "I am God Almighty, I am the Light of the world like the sun.

Neither defeat, nor death, can ever approach me. I am the controller

of the universe, know me alone as the Creator of all. Strive ye

diligently for the acquisition of power and wealth such ( as true

knowledge). Ask ye of me. May ye never lose my friendship. I give

true knowledge, which is real wealth, unto men who are truthful. I

am the revealer of Vedas which declare my true nature. It is through

the Vedas that I advance the knowledge of all. I am the prompter of

the good and true. I reward those who devote themselves to the good

of humanity. I am the cause, I am the support of all that exists in

this universe. May ye never turn away from me. May ye never accept

another God in my place, nor worship him." RIG VEDA, 10:48:5

>

> This mantra clearly states that we should not worship anybody as

God but God himself.

>

> The second Mantra u gave is :

>

> [The Nakstaras which become powerful because of Chandrama, all of

them should bring happiness for me in Sky, Antariksha, Water, Earth,

Mountains and in all directions. ]

>

> My analysis on 2nd mantra :

>

> We are able to see stars in night time and thats what there

becoming powerful by chandrama implies.During day due to sun light

we are not able to see them.

>

> Sun rays purifies the atmosphere, the radiation kills the

bacterias and germs thereby purifying the air. Because of heat of

sun the water rises and clouds are formed. Since air is purified by

sun so when the rain starts we get pure water free of cost.

Mountains are also responsible for raining and for changing the

directions of winds. So what it implies that like these bodies helps

in cleaning the environment so does the humans do. So the true

worship of these entities is by purifying them for e.g by performing

Havan the air and water are purified.Similarly worship of Earth lies

in keeping it clean and free from pollution, the true worship of

earth lies in planting more trees and not by performing anti vedic

rituals of paying money to cheats.

>

> So even with this mantra astrology is disapproved to be taken as

from Vedas.

>

> The 3rd Mantra you gave :

>

> [28 nakshartas should give me all that which will good and happy.

They should give me power to possess and power to protect. In other

words I should get power to possess along with power to protect and

power of protect along with possess. Namaskar to both Ahoratra.]

>

> My analysis on 3rd mantra :

>

> As I said earlier that celestial bodies are helpful in deciding

time and direction and by learning about the science of stars we

become powerful and protector. Becoming powerful and protector here

means learning the fusion and fission process of stars for making

weapons as well as using them for generating electricity, and

medicine sciences etc.

>

> By no other way you become powerful and protector better than

this,and this is what the sukh and shanti we can acquire from them.

>

> Thus even this mantra does not fullfill the objective of all

Astrologers of the world that astrology is Vedic.

>

> Regards

>

> Rajeev

>

>

>

>

amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:

>

> Dear RAjeev Namste

>

> I am glad that you are ready to accept whatever is truth. WHat I

> could gather from mails is that in your opinion whatever is

written

> in Vedas is truth. So if there exist a reference present in the

> Vedas of effect of Nakstaras and other celestial bodies then you

> will accept it as Truth.

>

> Before that we have to accept that basic of Vedic Astrology is

that

> Celestial Bodies Affect Our Life. Once you accept that then I will

> show that Veads accept this CBAOL principle and that way you

should

> accept Vedas have references of Astrology. Do you agree on this.?

>

> Regarding, translation of Sanskrit language I said because you may

> be then guided by some one eles's thoughts and not of yours. That

> may lead to another debate. I did not mean to stop the thread.

>

> Now read some of the Astrological richas from Atharvaveda

>

> Chitrani Sakam divi rochanani sarisurpani bhuvane javani|

> turmisham sumatimichamano ahani geerbhiH sarparyami nakam|| Athr

> 19|7|1)

>

> Free translation

>

> There are many Nakshatras present in the Dhulok. They all travel

> together and travel in a haphazard manner in a rapid speed.

Wishing

> well for me I worship all of them and wish that they should give

me

> Sukha and Shanti.

>

> This clearly states that Athrvaveda etablishes the relation

between

> Nakshatras and human life.

>

> The richa says that I worship them(Nakshatras) for my Sukha. It

> means that Vedas belive that these Nakshatras Affect Our Life.

That

> is why the richa.

>

> If you dont agree on this then read the next one.

>

> Yani Nakshatrani divyantarikshe apsu bhumaoo yani nageshu dikshu |

> prakalpyamshachandrama yaneti sarvani mamiitani shivani santu||

Atrv

> 19/8/1

>

> Free translation

> [The Nakstaras which become powerful because of Chandrama, all of

> them should bring happiness for me in Sky, Antariksha, Water,

Earth,

> Mountains and in all directions. ]

>

> This clearly shows that Vedas belive that Nakshatras become

powerful

> because of Chandrama and as well belive that they affect our life

> that is why this richa. Purely astrological concept.

>

> Next it says

>

> Asthavishani shivani shagamani saha yogam bhajantu me|

> yogam prapadhe kshemam prapadhe yogam cha namoahoratrabhyam stu||

> 19/8/2

>

> Free translation

> [28 nakshartas should give me all that which will good and happy.

> They should give me power to possess and power to protect. In

other

> words I should get power to possess along with power to protect

and

> power of protect along with possess. Namaskar to both Ahoratra.]

>

> The thing which you dont have, obtaining it is called as Yog and

> controling/protecting what you have is Kshema. Thats why there is

> term as 'Yogakhemam'. This richa does exactly that. This makes

amply

> clear that Vedas belive that clelestial bodies affect our life.

> Assuming that you are not too comfortable with Astrology the

> term 'Ahoratra' is very important in Astrology which is used in

this

> richa. In that sense as well it attest Astrology.

>

> In the all the richas seen so far it proves that Vedas belive that

> celestial bodies affect our life and these bodies are capable of

> giving us happiness and that is why they worship these bodies and

> demand happiness from them. This is purely Astrological concept.

> Astronomy does not have these concept.

>

> This means that vedas have references of Astrology as well. And

you

> are to accept what ever is Truth and present in Vedas. Now I await

> for your acceptence of Astrology as Truth.

>

> Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

>

> AmolMAndar

>

>

> vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

<satpath1>

> wrote:

> > Namaste AmolMandar Ji,

> >

> > I will accept whatever is truth.

> >

> > I said that celestial bodies have effect on our body. Like for

e.g

> the cosmic radiations coming from Sun and stars . Many of these

like

> sun,moon,earth,shani, brihaspati and other graha have been

> described as Vasu in Vedas. I don't think shani, brihaspati they

> have any remarkable effect (except gravitational force) on us

> compared to moon . One of the main usage of celestial bodies is

> for time calculation and finding the directions also.

> >

> >

> > As far as translating of Vedas is concerned , yes I don't have

> knowledge of Sanskrit language. I have never said in any of my

mail

> that I know Sanskrit.

> >

> > But then why Vedas were translated into Hindi, English and other

> languages ? simply because even those who donot understand

sanskrit

> can read and understand them.

> >

> > If you end up the discussion simply because my inability to

> translate Veda mantra then tell me why these translations are

> available then???

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Rajeev

> >

> > amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:

> > Dear Rajeev Namste

> >

> > You wrote

> >

> > "As far as the effect of Celestial body on humans is concerned

I

> > agree that sun rays heats and lights our body and everthing

around

> > us ,similarly for other celestial bodies."

> >

> > Here you agree that celestial bodies affect our life but not

> fully.

> > I dont understand your last portion "similarly for other

celestial

> > bodies". Can you please tell me other than Moon and Sun which

> > celestial body affect your body? People say that there is Graha

> > Called Shani far away from earth. Atleast I have not seen

anybody

> > whose body is affected because of this Shani Graha like Sun. You

> say

> > that like Sun other celestial bodies affect your Body? Please

> share

> > your expirences with us about this.

> >

> > I never said that celesital bodies affect your Job prospocts

till

> > now. Right now we want to fix up the issue of Celestial Bodies

> > Affect Our Life principle. You have agreed but partially. So

lets

> > agree fully then we shall come to other quries.

> >

> > The verses which I gave you should be more than sufficent for

you

> to

> > decide. Please give me the actual translation of it. Why are you

> > waiting for Vedas copy? Does that mean you are not capable of

> > translating Sanskrit yourself? Please give me the translation

> > first. On the other hand I expected it in this reply only.

Without

> > that there is no point in arguing.

> >

> > In case you are going to refer someone else or Book,please let

me

> > know. Becasue that will add another indirection.

> >

> > So right now answer my question How a Graha(Celestial Body)

called

> > by many as Shani affects your Body? Or How Nakshatra affects

your

> > Body? NAkshatra is collection of stars. Above all there is a

psudo-

> > graha called as Rahu which is not even non-living being but

Vedas

> > say that it affects our body. What do you say about this?

> According

> > to your logic only Living beings can affcet your life and non

> living

> > beings can affcet your body like Sun and Moon but can there be

any

> > affect of Rahu which is neither Living nor non-Living being?

Vedas

> > approve of this. So think more about this before you form your

> > opinion.

> >

> > As you have not commented on my earlier proofs I will not

produce

> > other. Do not try to direct the things by saying "Show me all

the

> > evidences within 2-3 days..." Now the speed will be decided by

> your

> > answers and not by your wish.

> >

> > One last point I hope you will not come up with the excuse by

> > saying "My copy of Vedas dont have richas given by you so Your

> > source of Vedas is not correct but mine is". I have everything

> from

> > Gita Press Gorakpur which is considered as Authority in printing

> > Vedic sahitya.

> >

> > Thnaks a lot for your Time and Space.

> >

> > AmolMAndar

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

> <satpath1>

> > wrote:

> > > Namaste AmolMandar Ji,

> > >

> > > Yes celestial bodies affect us, but so does things and people

> > around us like a thief may affect us, similarly the air we

breathe

> > affect us As far as the effect of Celestial body on humans is

> > concerned I agree that sun rays heats and lights our body and

> > everthing around us ,similarly for other celestial bodies.

> > >

> > > These bodies affect only the body part and as I said God has

> > created our body system that it has the capacity to nullify the

> bad

> > effects, like when the body temperature rises the perspiration

> > process cools the body etc.

> > > But if somebody says that celestial bodies decide your getting

> the

> > job or marriage etc. then how can it be possible as celestial

> bodies

> > are nothing but non living beings.

> > >

> > > Whether you(Atma) is the controller of your body or your body

> > controls the fate of yours.

> > >

> > > There are four elements necessary to convey a complete sense

of

> a

> > passage.

> > >

> > > 1.Akankasha consists in entering the spirit of the speaker or

> the

> > author.

> > >

> > > 2. Yogyata in the fitness of compatability of sense. For

> instance,

> > when it is said "water irrigates" there is nothing absurd in the

> > mutual connection between the objects signified by the words.

> > > 3. Asatti consists in regarding or speaking words in proper

> > sequence, i.e., without detaching them from their context.

> > > 4. Tatparya is to give the same meaning to the words of a

writer

> > or a speaker which he intended that they should convey..

> > >

> > > There are many people who, through bigotry and wrong-

headedness,

> > misconstrue the meaning of the writer. The sectaries are the

> > greatest sinners in this respect because their intellect is

> wrapped

> > by bigotry.

> > >

> > > So if you want to show me the evidences which in Vedas are for

> > astronomical purpose as astrolgical, then they won't be

accepted

> as

> > evidences.

> > >

> > > Show me all the evidences within 2-3 days and I will get back

to

> > you after analysis.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Rajeev

> > >

> > > amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:

> > > Dear Rajeev Namaste

> > >

> > > Lets get back to basics. You said "My view point is that

> Astrology

> > > is used to predict the future of living beings based upon the

> > study

> > > of planets, sun, moon etc. and also to provide the solutions

to

> > > avoid undesirable results and attain desirable effects."

> > >

> > > Yes, but for that purpose one must accept that these celestial

> > > bodies affect out life. This is the basic of Astrology in the

> view

> > > of many. Put it as yes or no.

> > >

> > > I never said that Moon affects our body, I say whole lot of

> > > Celestial bodies affect our life.

> > >

> > > There is no reference as far as I know about moon affecting

> human

> > > body, in Vedas. But there is clear cut refernce of clelestial

> > bodies

> > > affect our life. How accuractly we can predic future of

anybody

> is

> > > matter of another disscussions. Right now we are hitting on

one

> > > point and it is Astrology has refence in Vedas or not. For

that

> > > purpose first we must be clear about domain of

> > >

> > > Astrology. That is why I ask some basic questions about your

> > > understanding of Astrology and Astronomy. Again I request you

to

> > put

> > > it yes or no for "Celestial Bodies Affect Our Life" principle.

I

> > am

> > > not saying specifically about moon but rather all celestial

> > bodies.

> > >

> > > Once I get clear answer on this I will produce my proofs.

> > >

> > > To make it clear that I have proof just read this.

> > >

> > > The richas of ShanuHshepa rishi

> > >

> > > Ami ya ruksha nihitas uchha naktam dadrushre kuha citda

diveyuH|

> > > adabdhani varunasya vratani vichakashchandrama naktameti|(rig

> > > 1/24/10)

> > >

> > > Followed by

> > >

> > > Veda yo veenam padamantariskhena patatam|

> > > Veda NAvaH Samudriya||

> > > Veda Maso Dhrutavrato dwadasha prajavatH|

> > > Veda ya upajayate||

> > >

> > >

> > > Please analyse these two richas and comment on them. Later I

> will

> > > produce more of them.

> > >

> > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

> > >

> > > AmolMAndar

> > >

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

> > <satpath1>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Namaste Amol Ji,

> > > >

> > > > My view point is that Astrology is used to predict the

future

> of

> > > living beings based upon the study of planets, sun, moon etc.

> and

> > > also to provide the solutions to avoid undesirable results and

> > > attain desirable effects.

> > > >

> > > > I consider these celestial bodies as non living beings , we

> can

> > > easily predict with great accuracy their movement in future,

> like

> > > for e.g we can predict the next sun,moon eclipse ,next task of

a

> > > machine, but living beings are conscious entities they are

free

> to

> > > think and act accordingly so no body can predict their future

> with

> > > 100% accuracy.

> > > >

> > > > Had we been not free then our master is the real doer of

> > whatever

> > > good or bad. Like for e.g somebody killed someone with a gun

> then

> > in

> > > this case neither the maker of the gun nor the gun are culprit

> but

> > > the person who murdered is culprit.

> > > >

> > > > As far as the example of moon's effect on human bodies are

> > > concerned, offcourse it may have some effect but at the same

> time

> > > the immune system of human body is such that it automatically

> > > develops resistance to cater such ill effects . Like for e.g

> every

> > > human being is living under an atmospheric pressure of 1 atm

and

> > our

> > > body has been such designed. Similarly astronauts on space

> mission

> > > are given training and the atmospheric conditions of space are

> > > simulated on earth so that their body gets used to of it.So

when

> > our

> > > body system is itself there to take care of these effects then

> > whats

> > > these astrologers are doing, are they doctors to take care of

> our

> > > bodies ?

> > > >

> > > > Even if we accept the view point of Astrologers and their

> > > believers then all these people should be far far better than

> the

> > > non believers of Astrology because they already know the

> problems

> > > and their accurate solutions, moreover when everything is

> > > predestined then again whats the role of Astrologers.

> > > >

> > > > Can Astrologers gurantee the fate of a person with same

> > accuracy

> > > as astronomers can predict the movement of celestial bodies or

> > > mathematicians can predict the area of a land? if not then its

> not

> > a

> > > science(truth) but a fraud, because truth comprise in knowing

a

> > > thing as it is nothing more and nothing less.

> > > >

> > > > If you say yes then I ask can you change those events ? if

you

> > > cannot then again whats the astrologers doing, if you say yes

we

> > can

> > > then why we have somuch poverty and illness around ?

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > >

> > > > Rajeev

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Rajeev NAmaste

> > > >

> > > > It is good that we agree on number of AVedas and their

names.

> > Now

> > > > lets move ahead by building confidance.

> > > >

> > > > I wrote previous mail to avoid unnecesary debate afterwards.

> Let

> > > it

> > > > be clear that I have some references but the problem may

arise

> > > that

> > > > on hindsight you may put it as astronomy and I may not agree

> to

> > > it.

> > > > This may cause us to loose the point. So lets be clear what

> > > > reference will be Astronomy and what will be Astrology. In

> other

> > > > words, if you fix up domain of Astronomy it will be good for

> me

> > to

> > > > examine myself and then to decide to put them as proof or

not.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > As far as as Jyotish is concerned,it is shastra of Jyotish.

> > Jyoti

> > > is

> > > > obtained from celestial bodies.The branch of Jyotish in

which

> we

> > > > study physical nature,such as its redius,color,its distance

> from

> > > sun

> > > > or earth and its speed of rotation is Astronomy.(right?)

> > > >

> > > > And the branch of jyotish in which its effect is express and

> > > > accordingly prayer is given then it is not Astronmy and

hence

> > can

> > > be

> > > > Astrology. Do you agree? Many say that basic of Astrology is

> > that

> > > > Celestial Bodies Affect Our Life(CBAOL). If this(CBAOL) is

> > > > acknowledge in Vedas then it can be said that vedas have

> > reference

> > > > of Astrology. Do you agree with this?

> > > >

> > > > Lets first fix up line of demarcation between Astronomy and

> > > > Astrology and then move ahead. But be assured that I do have

> > some

> > > > references of Astrology based on CBAOL, in Vedas.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks alot for your Time and Space.

> > > >

> > > > AmolMAndar

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

> > > <satpath1>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > Namaste Amolmandar Ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes I also agree with you that there are 4 vedas and

these

> > are

> > > > Rig,Yajur,Sam and Atharva. I have already told that we have

> > > > references to astronomy in Vedas. Please give the references

> and

> > > > after analysis of the same I will get back to you.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > >

> > > > > Rajeev

> > > > >

> > > > > amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Rajeev Namaste

> > > > >

> > > > > Before we get into Good or Bad work and its relation to

> God,I

> > > will

> > > > > try to show some reference of Jyotish and Astrology in the

> > > Vedas.

> > > > > For that let me just know will you accept a sukta or

Shloka

> > > > > describing that the bodies present in the Brahmanda do

> affect

> > > our

> > > > > life and we should pray for good effects from them, as

proof

> > for

> > > > > reference of astrology in any of the four Vedas. Why I am

> > asking

> > > > > this is that I have some shlokas from Vedas describing

this.

> > The

> > > > > reference of NAvagraha directly or indirectly in the Veda

> will

> > > be

> > > > > acceptred by you as proof of Astrology in Vedas or not? So

> if

> > a

> > > > > shloka says that we should pray these hevenly bodies and

> these

> > > > > bodies should give us Sukha and Shanti then that should be

> > more

> > > > than

> > > > > enough as proof or not. Or you want all shlokas present in

> > > > > Astrological Granthas to be present in Vedas? Let me know

> this

> > > > first

> > > > > and then I will produce for you more than one proof of

> Jyotish

> > > > i.e.

> > > > > astrological and not astromonical reference in Vedas.

> > > > >

> > > > > One last thing be very clear that Vedas means 1)Rigveda 2)

> > > > Yajurveda

> > > > > 3)SamaVeda 4) Atharvaveda.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you agree on this, please let me know.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce.

> > > > >

> > > > > AmolMAndar

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

> > > > <satpath1>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > Namaste AmolMAndar Ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If every work is work of God then are adulteration,

> telling

> > > > lies ,

> > > > > doing fraud with somebody etc. are also work of God. If we

> > > accept

> > > > > this then God becomes an adulterator, lier etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Vedic God does not expect the help of anybody in doing

> his

> > > work

> > > > > because he is all powerful , omniscient. The God which

> expects

> > > > help

> > > > > from anybody is not God but a humanbeing or a fraud.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rajeev

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:

> > > > > > Dear Rajeev Namaste

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks for the wonderful link.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >But here the Astrologers have taken the work of God in

> > their

> > > > > hand,

> > > > > > >is it not against Vedas and Gita ????

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dont you feel that every work is 'work' of God. Why to

> > single

> > > > out

> > > > > > Astrologers? Moreover, what is wrong in helping God?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > AmolMAndar

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

> > > > > <satpath1>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > Namaste,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Astrology is it Vedic ? or we are using the name Vedas

> > just

> > > to

> > > > > > brand it as a Vedic science.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am of the view that Astrology is not supported by

> > Vedas .

> > > In

> > > > > > ManuSmriti it is written that whoever disobeys/disregard

> > Vedas

> > > > is

> > > > > an

> > > > > > athiest. So those books which are not in accordance with

> > Vedas

> > > > are

> > > > > > anti Vedic.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am sure that all people on this forum are not

blind

> > and

> > > it

> > > > > is

> > > > > > for them only I am raising this question.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have following point to support my views

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Vedas , Gita talk at length about the philosophy of

KARMA

> > > > > (Action)

> > > > > > and says that you have right to do the action only and

> > result

> > > is

> > > > > in

> > > > > > my(God) hand. But here the Astrologers have taken the

work

> > of

> > > > God

> > > > > in

> > > > > > their hand, is it not against Vedas and Gita ????

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In Vedas and other authoritative scriptures of ancient

> > Vedic

> > > > > > Rishis no where it is written that sun moon planets etc

do

> > the

> > > > > acts

> > > > > > that astrologers generally talk about.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Offcourse Vedas and other vedic scriptures support all

> the

> > > > true

> > > > > > sciences like Astronomy but not even a single word we

have

> > > found

> > > > > on

> > > > > > Astrology. If you came across any then please give the

> > > reference.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Moreover by applying tests of truth the truthfulness

of

> > > > > Astrology

> > > > > > is not proved. The tests of truth are as follows. I am

> > making

> > > a

> > > > > copy

> > > > > > and paste from the following site about the ' Tests of

> > truth '

> > > > > > > http://www.vjsingh.com/chapterthree.html#8

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > THE FIVE TESTS OF TRUTH

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The truth of every thing that is learnt or taught

should

> > be

> > > > > > carefully examined by the following five tests:-

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The Veda and nature of God - All that conforms to

the

> > > > > teachings

> > > > > > of the Vedas, nature, attributes and characteristics of

> God

> > is

> > > > > > right, the reverse is wrong.

> > > > > > > Laws of Nature - All that tallies with laws of

nature

> > is

> > > > > true,

> > > > > > the reverse untrue; e.g., the statement that a child is

> born

> > > > > without

> > > > > > the sexual union of its parents, being opposed to the

laws

> > of

> > > > > nature

> > > > > > can never be true.

> > > > > > > The practice and teachings of A'ptaas, -i.e.,

pious,

> > > > > truthful,

> > > > > > unprejudiced, honest, and learned men. All that is

> unopposed

> > > to

> > > > > > their practice and teachings is acceptable and the

reverse

> > is

> > > > > > unacceptable.

> > > > > > > The purity and conviction of one's own soul. - What

> is

> > > good

> > > > > for

> > > > > > you is good for the world. What is painful to you is

> painful

> > > to

> > > > > > others. This ought to be the guiding principle of one's

> > > conduct

> > > > > > towards others.

> > > > > > > Eight kinds of evidence

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Direct Cognizance.

> > > > > > > Inference.

> > > > > > > Analogy.

> > > > > > > Testimony.

> > > > > > > History.

> > > > > > > Deduction.

> > > > > > > Possibility.

> > > > > > > Non-existence or Negation.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Direct Cognizance (Praatyaksha) is that kind of

> > > knowledge,

> > > > > > which is the result of direct contact of the five senses

> > with

> > > > > their

> > > > > > objects,* of the mind (faculty or organ of attention)

with

> > the

> > > > > > senses, and of the soul with mind. NYAAYA Shaastraa 1:

i,

> 4.

> > > > > > > But this knowledge must not be that of the

> relation

> > of

> > > > > words

> > > > > > with the things signified, as of the word "water" with

the

> > > fluid

> > > > > > called "water", For example, you ask your servant to

bring

> > you

> > > > > some

> > > > > > water. He brings water, puts it before you, and

> says : 'Here

> > > is

> > > > > > water, Sir.' Now, what you and your servant see is not

the

> > > > > > word "water" but the object signified by it. So ou have

> the

> > > > direct

> > > > > > knowledge of the object called water. But the knowledge

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This knowledge must not be of temporary or

> transient

> > > > > > character, i.e., not the product of observation under

> > > > unfavourable

> > > > > > circumstances; for example, a person saw something at

> night

> > > and

> > > > > took

> > > > > > it for a man , but when it was daylight he found out his

> > > mistake

> > > > > and

> > > > > > knew that it was not a man, but a pillar. Now, his first

> > > > > impression

> > > > > > of the thing was of a temporary or transient nature,

which

> > > gave

> > > > > > place to permanent knowledge later on, when the true

> nature

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > thing was revealed in the light.

> > > > > > > It should be free from all elements of doubt,

and

> be

> > > > > certain

> > > > > > in character. For example, you see a river from a

distance

> > and

> > > > > > say: "Is it water there or white clothes spread out to

> dry?"

> > > Or

> > > > > take

> > > > > > another example, you see a man from a distance and say:

Is

> > it

> > > > Deva

> > > > > > Datta standing there or Yajna Datta?" Now, as long as

you

> > are

> > > in

> > > > > > doubt and consequently not sure about a thing you

observe,

> > > your

> > > > > > knowledge cannot be called Pratyaksha (Direct

Cognizance).

> > To

> > > be

> > > > > > that the element of doubt must be absolutely eliminated

> from

> > > it.

> > > > > > > Briefly therefore, that knowledge alone is said to be

> > Direct

> > > > > > Cognizance, which is not the outcome of the relation of

> name

> > > > with

> > > > > > the object signified by it, nor gained under

circumstances

> > > > > > unfavourable for observation or experiment (Hence

> transient

> > in

> > > > > > character) nor into which any element of doubt enters

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anumaana - inference - Literally it means that which

> > follows

> > > > > > direct cognizance. Two things have been observed to

exist

> > > > together

> > > > > > at some time and place, when on some other occasion, one

> of

> > > the

> > > > > woe

> > > > > > is observed, the other, i.e., the unknown can be

> inferred.*

> > > For

> > > > > > instance, you see a child and you at once infer that he

> must

> > > > have

> > > > > > had parents. Again, seeing the smoke issuing from behind

a

> > > hill

> > > > > you

> > > > > > infer the existence of fire. You infer the previous

> > > incarnation

> > > > of

> > > > > > the soul form observing unequal joy and sorrow in this

> world

> > > at

> > > > > the

> > > > > > present moment.

> > > > > > > Inference is of three kinds:-

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Purvavat - is one , in which you reason from cause

to

> > > > effect,

> > > > > > e.g., the inference of coming rain form the sight of

> clouds;

> > > or,

> > > > > > again, you see a wedding and naturally infer that some

day

> > the

> > > > > > wedded couple will have children. Or, again, you see

> > students

> > > > > > engaged in the pursuit of knowledge and you infer that

> some

> > > day

> > > > > they

> > > > > > will become men of learning.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sheshavat - inference is one, in which you reason from

> > > effects

> > > > > to

> > > > > > causes. Examples:- You see a flood in the river, and

infer

> > > that

> > > > it

> > > > > > must have rained on the mountain from which the river

> > issues.

> > > > > Again,

> > > > > > you see a child and at once infer that the child must

have

> > had

> > > a

> > > > > > father. Again, you see this world and infer the

existence

> of

> > > the

> > > > > > Spiritual cause - the Creator, as well as of a Material

> > cause -

> > >

> > > > > the

> > > > > > elementary matter. Or, again, take another example. When

> you

> > > se

> > > > a

> > > > > > man in pleasure and pain, you at once infer that he must

> > have

> > > > done

> > > > > a

> > > > > > virtuous or sinful deed before, since you have noticed

> that

> > > the

> > > > > > consequence of a sinful act is pain, and that of a

> virtuous

> > > > deed,

> > > > > > pleasure.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Aaamaanyatodrishata - is that kind of inference, in

> which

> > > > there

> > > > > is

> > > > > > no relation of cause and effect between the known datum

> and

> > > the

> > > > > > thing to be inferred, but there is some kind of

similarity

> > > > between

> > > > > > the two. For example, you know that no one can get

another

> > > place

> > > > > > without moving from the first, and hence, if you find a

> > person

> > > > at

> > > > > a

> > > > > > certain place, you can easily infer that he must have

come

> > to

> > > > the

> > > > > > latter place by moving from the first.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Upamaana - Analogy - is the knowledge of a thing from

> its

> > > > > likeness

> > > > > > to another. The thing which is required to be known is

> > called

> > > > > > Saadhya, and tha which becomes the means of this

knowledge

> > > from

> > > > > some

> > > > > > kind of likeness between the two is called Saadhana

> > > > > > > Examples: - a man says to his servant : "Go and fetch

> > Vishnu

> > > > > > Mittra." The latter answers that he does not know him,

as

> he

> > > has

> > > > > > never seen him before. Thereupon the master says :- You

> know

> > > > Deva

> > > > > > Datta, don't you?" Upon the servant's answering in the

> > > > > affirmative,

> > > > > > his master continues: "Well, Vishnu Mittra is just like

> Deva

> > > > > Datta."

> > > > > > So the servant went out to find Vishnu Mittra. As he was

> > > passing

> > > > > > through a street, he saw a man very much like Deva

Datta,

> > and

> > > > > > thought that, thta man must be Vishnu Mittra, and

> forthwith

> > > > > brought

> > > > > > him to his master.

> > > > > > > Or, take another example. You want to know what a Yak

> is.

> > > > Well,

> > > > > > some one tells you, it is just like an ox. Next time you

> go

> > to

> > > a

> > > > > > jungle and happen to see an animal very much like an ox,

> you

> > > at

> > > > > once

> > > > > > know that it is the Yak you asked your friend about. Now

> > this

> > > > kind

> > > > > > of knowledge, i.e., knowledge of Vishnu Mittra from his

> > > likeness

> > > > > to

> > > > > > Deva Datta and of a Yak from its likeness to an ox is

> > > > > calledUpamaana

> > > > > > or knowledge by analogy. The words Vishnu Mittra and Yak

> are

> > > > > called

> > > > > > Saadhya, whilst Deva Datta and ox are called Saadhana,

in

> > the

> > > > > above

> > > > > > two instances.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Shabda - Testimony (literally, word) - "The word of an

> > A'pt

> > > > > > (altruistic teacher) is called Shabda." NYAAYA Shaastra

> > 1:,i,

> > > 7.

> > > > > > > An A'pt is a person who is a thorough scholar, we

versed

> > in

> > > > all

> > > > > > the sciences and philosophies, physical and spiritual,

is

> > > > > virtuous,

> > > > > > truthful, active, free from passions and desires, imbued

> > with

> > > > love

> > > > > > for others, and who is an altruistic teacher of humanity

> > > solely

> > > > > > actuated with the desire of benefiting the world by his

> > > > knowledge,

> > > > > > experience and convictions. God being the truest and

> > greatest

> > > of

> > > > > all

> > > > > > A'ptas, HIs word the Veda is also included in shabda

> > > > (Testimony).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Itihaas - History - is that which tells us that such

and

> > > such

> > > > a

> > > > > > person was so and so, he did such and such a thing. In

> other

> > > > > words,

> > > > > > Itihaas is the history of a country or the biography of

a

> > > > person.

> > > > > > NYAAYA Shaastra 2: 2,1.[The experience of the past

> recorded

> > in

> > > > > > history can be applied to solve many a difficult

question

> of

> > > the

> > > > > > day. - Tr.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Arthaapatti - Conclusion or deduction. - It is a

> > conclusion

> > > > > which

> > > > > > naturally follows from the statement of a fact; for

> > instance,

> > > > one

> > > > > > says to another: "Rain falls from clouds" or " and

effect

> > > flows

> > > > > from

> > > > > > a cause." The natural conclusion that can be drawn from

> the

> > > > above

> > > > > > statement is: "There can be no rain when there are no

> > clouds,"

> > > > > > or "no effects follow when a cause does not exist."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sambhava - possibility. - When you hear a thing, the

> first

> > > > thing

> > > > > > that enters your mind is whether such and such a thing

is

> > > > > possible.

> > > > > > Anything that runs counter to the laws of nature is not

> > > > possible,

> > > > > > and hence it can never be true; for example, if you are

> told

> > > > that

> > > > > a

> > > > > > child was born without parents, such and such a person

> > raised

> > > > the

> > > > > > dead to life again, or made stones float on the sea,

> lifted

> > > > > > mountains, broke the moon into pieces, was God

incarnate,

> or

> > > saw

> > > > > > horns on the head of a man, or solemnized the marriage

of

> a

> > > > couple

> > > > > > born of sterile mother. You could at once know that it

> could

> > > not

> > > > > > have possibly happened, being opposed to the laws of

> Nature.

> > > > That

> > > > > > alone is possible which is in conformity with the laws

of

> > > > nature.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Abhaava - Absence or Negation.- You infer the

existence

> of

> > a

> > > > > thing

> > > > > > in some other place from its absence from the place

where

> > you

> > > > were

> > > > > > told you find it; for instance, a gentleman said to his

> > > man: "Go

> > > > > and

> > > > > > bring the elephant from the elephant-house." He went

there

> > but

> > > > > found

> > > > > > that the elephant was not there. He naturally conclude

> that

> > he

> > > > > must

> > > > > > be somewhere near about. So he went out and looked about

> for

> > > the

> > > > > > elephant and found him not very far from its proper

place

> > and

> > > > > > brought him to his master.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > These eight kinds of evidence have been briefly

> described.

> > > > Their

> > > > > > number can be reduced to four fi History be included

under

> > > > > > Testimony, and Deduction, Possibility, and Negation

under

> > > > > > Inference.*

> > > > > > > It is only by means of these five criteria that a man

> can

> > > > > > ascertain what is right or wrong and not otherwise

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you test Astrology against these tests it proves

to

> be

> > a

> > > > > fraud.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rajeev

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design

> > > software

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sponsor

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Group info: vedic-

> > > > astrology/info.html

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > >

> > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu

||

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Terms

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[Guest guest]

|| Om Gurave Namah ||

Dear Learned members,

I just wanted to add few lines on Jyotisha being Vedic, lest it

creates doubts otherwise.

 

a) Vedas is source of all knowledege are very cryptic.

Each person approaching the veda can derive knowledge from it

depending upon his want and qualifications. I have heard Gurudev Pt

Sanjay Rath saying that he feels that many parts of the Vedas are

solely for Jyotish purposes. But these Jyotish knowleges from the

Veda are got only from Guru and Tradition. Lot remains in tradition,

play of Time is such that one cannot get everything by sole intectual

argument. Intellect can take one a long way, but not all the way to

final destination. One needs to fall at the feel of Guru and

tradition to learn completely. Lord Dakshinamurthy needs to be seeked

blessings for this.

 

For example the vedic statement

"TreeNi padA vichakramE Vishnur gOpA adAbhya:" can be interpreted in

Jyotish the 3 fold odd footed and even footedness of Rashi and

Nakshtras. This knowledge is used in Narayana dasa, Yuga cycles etc.

 

b) Rishi of Vedas and Jyotish are same.

Rishi like Parasara have given slokas in Veda have also given us

Jyotish shastra.

 

c) Jyotish is A Vedanga.

There is no doubt that Jyotish is a Vedanga, Which means that its

a Veda+anga is part of Veda or Veda's body as is shiksha,Nirukta,

Vyakarana, Chanda, kalpa.

If one says that Vedanga Jyotish is nothing but Astronomy without

prediction etc. That would be a flimsy argument. It's like learning

the language and not speeking. As every Jyotish text tells of Jyotish

being of three parts, Parasara in BPHS says,

'Jyotish, the supreme limb of the Vedas, has three divisions, viz.

Hora, Ganita and Samhita'

Omens, predications and even bodily portents (anga lakshana) comes

underthis.

 

d) One way to understand Vedas is By reading following texts.

i) Upanishads/Brahamanas: Upanishad means sitting besides Guru.

ii) Puranas(Puranas means old ones or Traditional ones): Bhagavat

Purana, Shiva Purana, Bavishya Purana.

iii) Itihasa(History): Ramayana and Mahabharata.

 

Tradition teaches us to use the above texts to understand the

Vedas. Like for example the Vedic statement

"TreeNi padA vichakramE Vishnur gOpA adAbhya:"

is explained by Visnu's Vamana avatar's three strides to take all

worlds from Bali Maharaja. Thus he established Dharma. So Bhagavan

takes avatars which stories are document in Purana's. These stories

are mere elaboration of simple smaller Veda lines.

 

Mahabharata gives many details of use of Jyotish both for

predictive purpose and for muhurtha purpose.

 

Mahabharata also contains the famous 'Bhagavat Geeta' by Lord

Krishna which is a Vedanta. When one cannot doubt Bhagavat Geeta

being non-vedic one can also not doubt Jyotish being non vedic as

both are refered in Mahabharata.

 

Rishi like Narada are said to be Jyotishas and Palmists in

Purana's. Puranas give various stories of Narada rishi using his

predictive abilities. Even if one takes just the basic Eighteen

puranas without including other puranas you would get enough material

to teach one jyotish. Particularly one needs to refer to Agni purana,

Bhavishya purana, Garuda purana etc.

 

e) All Rituals and temples use Jyotish.

All temples have the Navagraha murthy.

All festivals are dependendant on Panchanga(Tithi(lunar day), Vaar

(weekday), nakshatra etc. These days are so selected such that

maxmimum benifits are acrued from worship. These were used in yagya

too.

If it's ascertained that doing a thing on a certain days gives

certain fruits. Then cannot the reverse be true?, That a event

happened on a certain day will give certain results?

 

Elements used in worship are also used in Jyotish. For example

Sarvotobhadra chakra is drawn in many rituals and prayed. The same

Sarvotobhadra chakra can be used in Jyotish. Similarly Kaalachakra etc

 

If one analyses all our rituals and prayers one realises the deep

interelation between all. One just needs to sit and medidates on this

fact to get it.

 

Warm Regards

S. Prabhakaran

Om Tat Sat

[Guest guest]

Daer Rajeev Namste

 

You are deviating like a Sarpa. Lets follow your way.

 

See, how does it matter whether I have static or dymamic

intelligence so far as I am correct! I dont know what does it mean

as static and dynamic intelligence but I applied common sense to

arrive at conclusion. When you see a object coming towards you in a

retarding speed, you can conclude without much knowledge of physics

and astrology that the object will stop sooner than later. As simple

as that. So applying common sense is static intelligence then its ok

to me.

 

You have given the example of 'has Delhi come'? It means has the

train reached Delhi? and not has the train reached Lahore! By

streach of imagination if some one says that(Now read carefully)

 

"Delhi is Lahore because ultimatly what is reaching to Delhi? It is

capturing Lahore! So when we say 'has Delhi come' we must understand

the context (being Indian) and the real meaning of Delhi. Then only

we will be true Indian. We take Delhi as as Delhi then it would be

wrong. Only anti-Indian will take Delhi as Delhi. The seeker of

Truth will always follow the path of true nationalist. So one must

see the Truth. Dont give blind eye to the fact that Delhi is Lahore.

Today your inaction and acceptence of Delhi as Delhi will make in

India slave. So be awakened and make everyone realize the truth.

Dont go by the word 'Delhi' but try to understand the sentiments

attached with that word. There are many who have lost their

everything for the word 'Delhi'. Were they all fools? No. They were

real patriots. Dictionary can help somebody to understand the

meaning of a word , but it requires vision to understand the real

meaning of a phrase , fools use only the literal meaning however

everywhere. Dont follow dictionary but see the sentiments. My dear

fellow countrymen.... Listen what I say. Look USA, UK ,and other

countries and India. They are Nuclear powers. So are we. Till

Indians followed the false concept as Delhi as Delhi Indians were

suppressed by many invaders and Delhi was separeted from Lahore.

Indians were themselves robbed of their independence and reduced to

the condition of a subject race,raped , converted to verious

religions, suffer in a hundred different way like the donkey of the

potter because they belive in Delhi as Delhi and Lahore as Lahore.

But taking Delhi as Lahore, like I explained now, One day India will

be considered as a powerful Nation. This is the meaning of Sukha

and shanti. We will be happy (Sukha) only if we consider Delhi as

Lahore and there will all be Peace (Shanti) if we belive that Delhi

is Lahore. So remember my dear fellow countrymen. Delhi is Lahore.

Delhi is Sukha and Dlehi is Shanti to us. This is the Truth. It's a

proven fact that Truth always wins so we will win. Acquiring of true

knowledge(delhi is Lahore), and following it leads one towards sukha

and shanti what's wrong in saying it ? It is written in vedas. I am

giving you the truth and nothing but truth. I have used real

translation and the meanings I gave are in line with the Vedas(true

knowledge), the meanings I gave are universal in nature, not limited

by time and place. We are universal. Vedas are universal. Delhi is

Universal. Every Indian is universal. " etc. etc..

 

Who can argue on this argument? No one. Because who makes this

argument is so firm in his belief and faith (that Delhi is Lahore)

that he never realizes that it is intelletual excess. In other words

Vaicharik Atirek. An intellectual extremest.

 

Just a small doubt. Are you sending our communication to a third

person and he/she is guiding you as to what to write and how are we

(You two) correct? Just a doubt.

 

Thnaks a lot for your Time and Space.

 

AmolMandar

 

 

vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar <satpath1>

wrote:

>

> Namaste AmolMandar Ji,

>

> Amol Ji You wrote :

> "I knew that you would reject but I never thought that you would

do it in this fashion. "

>

> Rajeev's Reply :

>

> Before my answering you, it was known to you that what my reply

would be, that's why you have not analysed my reply properly and

thus raising such funny objections. Now tell me how did you know

what my reply would be ? , is it because of the Astrological

studies. If you say no, then what it ultimately proves is that you

have a static intellect. A static intellect is when predetermination

takes the place of honest inquiry and truth is suppressed.

>

> If you say that through Astrology you knew it then even that is

doubtful as no where I have given you my birth chart details.

>

>

> Amol Ji You wrote :

>

>

> "In that case they should have written 'I learn' instead I

worship. Universally worship means pooja and Learning means Abyasa.

See the words used for indicating worship in the sloka.Does that

mean Learning? No. It does not mean by any chance learning. WHat

ever you have done is pure rationlization of the shloka. If you see

the actual word used in the shlokas then you will understand. It is

your interpretation that worship means learning but not supoorted by

Sanskrit or English dictionary. "

>

> Rajeev's Reply :

>

> In order to understand the true meanings of a passage we have to

judge the context, capability of the subjects etc.,only then the

true meaning of that passage can be understood . Like for e.g if

somebody says that parrots(birds) are flying, then those who already

know about parrot's flying capability, immediately know that parrots

are flying.

>

> But if I say that `Tony' is flying. Then those who know that Tony

is a man would at once know that its not Tony who is flying but the

Airplane he is using is flying and Tony is in plane. Now Tony may be

the name of a Dog to others and soon.

>

> Similarly when sitting in a train we say to somebody that, has

Delhi come ?. Then indirectly what we are asking is, has the train

reached Delhi ?.

>

> Since the Delhi is the name of a place and that place does not

have the capacity to move so saying , has Delhi come ? means nothing

but, have we reached Delhi ?

>

> Same thing has happened here, Worship of non living beings is what

we had written. What is worship ? its nothing but knowing ,

attaining the thing to be worshipped in its true form. Now how you

will know the thing to be worshipped it is only through learning the

attributes of that thing and making use of those attributes for the

benefit of self and man kind. So the meaning of worship what we have

done is right.

>

> Amol Ji You wrote :

>

> Is there any reference of elicpse in the richa? Whithout any

reference why are you assuming they were refering to solar eclipse

and moon tides? In that case it can mean anything under the Sun!

Like collision of Stars or blak hole formation. Is it not?. But we

should see the richa and then decide. You are not applying correct

logic to understand the richa.

>

>

> Rajeev's Reply :

>

> In the example I gave above even the passenger has not said that

Delhi is stationary and train is moving. So what it proves that in

order to understand it is not the literal meaning of the words but

the context, capability of the subject etc. which decides the

meaning.

>

> Also many times when we say that lets do the `Pate(stomach)

pooja'. So even here by word pooja we are saying that lets eat

something. So here Pooja means eating also.

>

> Dictionary can help somebody to understand the meaning of a word ,

but it requires vision to understand the real meaning of a

phrase , fools use only the literal meaning however everywhere.

>

> Amol Ji You wrote :

>

>

> See what has happened, you are analysing my interpretation but not

why i translated that richa in that fashion. Dont try to make me

understand what my translation means. If I can translate it then I

know what it means.Try to see whether translation is correct or not.

If it is so then you will understand the words used are intentional.

Had it not so I would have used the word 'Learn' instead 'Worship'.

Once you do that then follow the dictionary to know what worship

means. So remove your bias and try to see the world. On one side you

say "God is biasless so we should try to become" but does not follow

it. Very funny!

>

>

> Rajeev's Reply :

>

> Had you understood the meanings I gave, you would not have raised

the foolish objections.

>

> Amol Ji You wrote :

>

> Now you are confused yourself. You say "We are able to see stars

in night time and thats what there becoming powerful by chandrama

implies.During day due to sun light we are not able to see them."

This statement one can make only because of lack of porper knowledge

or bias or confusion. You have right now all three qualities. Read

agin I am sure you will realize what have you said. Look at the

words used in richa and decide. This you could have said without I

producing any proof. Since you are not talking about proof rather it

is predetermined thought process getting expressed.

>

> Rajeev's Reply :

>

> By now I hope you might have known who is confused , biased and

have static intellect.

>

> Similar objections have been raised by you in other parts so I am

not answering those parts as I consider them already answered. If

anything is left then let me know and I will answer them.

>

>

> Amol Ji You wrote :

>

> Here you are sounding like a God unwantedly. Who are you to decide

what and how Sukha shanti is obtained? There is a good and simple

way of understanding these words. But you will try to see what is

not present in it.

>

> Rajeev's answer :

>

> Even here what we have written is practical, look USA, UK , other

countries and recently India are Nuclear powers. Till Indians

followed the mythologies like astrology , Indians were suppressed by

many invaders. Indians were themselves robbed of their independence

and reduced to the condition of a subject race,raped , converted to

verious religions, suffer in a hundred different way like the donkey

of the potter. But worshipping the sun ,stars etc like we explained

now India is considered as a powerful Nation. So the meaning of

Sukha and shanti what we have taken is right.

>

> It's a proven fact that Truth always wins. So acquiring of true

knowledge, and following it leads one towards sukha and shanti

what's wrong in saying it ?

>

> Amol Ji You wrote :

>

> That is why I asked do you know Sanskrit? When you do not know

> Sanskrit then that adds up indirections. What has happned is

exactly that. You have my translation rather than translating it

yourself. Read the Sanskrit version again and examine the words used

and try to come-up with your translation then you will understand

what is learning and what is worshiping.

>

> Rajeev's reply :

>

> I have used your translation and the meanings I gave are in line

with the Vedas(true knowledge), the meanings I gave are universal in

nature, not limited by time and place and proving loudly that Vedas

are universal for everybody.

>

> Regards

>

> Rajeev

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

||Om Brihaspataye Namah||

 

Namaste Rajeev,

> If Astrologers say that they have control over the celestial

bodies than if two persons one believer of astrology(like you) and

other nonbeliever like me walk bare footed on the heated sands of

Rajasthan in the month of May or June during day time(1.00 PM to

3.00PM) when the summer is at its peak. At that time if your feet

are not burnt( because sun is in your(astrologers control )and only

my feet are burnt then I will accept whatever you say, otherwise

accept what I am saying.

>

 

ASTROLOGERS DO NOT CLAIM THAT THEY HAVE CONTROL OVER THE CELESTIAL

BODIES. THAT IS THE CENTRAL PRINCIPLE PRACTICED ON THIS FORUM. AS

TANVIR SAID, I WILL JOIN YOU IN CALLING ANY ASTROLOGER, WHO MAKES

SUCH A CLAIM, AS FRAUD.

 

SIR, YOU ARE EXTRAPOLATING AGAIN. YOU HAVE NOT MADE A SINGLE ATTEMPT

TO GO THROUGH THE ARCHIVES AND SEE THE WORK DONE BY THE GURUS IN

SOLVING THE COMMON MAN'S PROBLEMS. PLEASE DO NOT MAKE PROVOCATIVE

STATEMENTS LIKE THIS. WE ARE WORKING HARD TO RESTORE THE GLORY OF

INDIA'S ANCIENT AND RICH SPIRITUAL HERITAGE SO THAT THE FUTURE

GENERATIONS WILL BE BENEFITED. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE WHAT WE ARE

ATTEMPTING TO DO, PLEASE TAKE YOUR TRUTHS, EXPERIENCES AND

INTELLECTUAL BAGGAGE ELSEWHERE. THAT IS MY HUMBLE REQUEST TO YOU.

 

Regards

Hari

[Guest guest]

Dear Rajeev Namaste

 

[some clarification from my side. I am litle bit late in my response

as my mother is seriously ill and I had to take her to doctors. So

yesterday I did not get time to start my computer.]

 

Back to thethread....

 

It was simple common sense. Commonly it is found that object with a

retarding speed stops sooner. Why to make your life complex by

thinking about remote control and all?

 

Any way coming to the point. Remember I am talking about Astrology

is vedic or not. God and its existence in uni or multiform is a big

question and many may not like we disscussing it. So lets restrict

ourselves to Astrology is vedic or not. Is it Truth or not is

another question and Gurus and learned members like Hariji are

taking care of it. My point is Astrology as Vedic astrology.

To me to prove this, we should follow this simple path.

 

1) What is the basic principle of Astrology?

2) What are Vedas?

3) Is answer to first question found/supported in Vedas?

4) If asnswer to third question is yes, conclude Astrology as vedic

else otherwise.

5) Stop and do next activity.

 

This is what is my algorithm. Since you said you are not aware of

Astrology I asume that you have no answer to first question. You

have agreed on answer to 2nd question.As I told you earlier, Many

say that "Celestial Bodies Affect Our Life"(CBAOL) is the basic

principle of Astrology. Now saying that it affects only 0.1% and 20%

or 100% is individual choice but Vedas feel that these celestial

bodies affect us substantialy and are capable of providing us Sukha

and Shanti. That is why there is separate Anupak in the Athrvaveda

on this as to how they affect and therefore Vedas try to please

these celestial bodies by worshiping them and reciting richas meant

for them. Worshiping is feeling of profound love and admiration.

When done in religious fashion, the expression of that becomes

ritual.Veads are primarily religious granthas;upon rationalization

they can be book of Chemistry to modern day computer sciences as

well!. So whatever is given or stated in Vedas must be seen in the

context of religion and spiritually.

 

Every religion has its own way of worshipping. It is as well belived

that whatever is ritually correct is ethically right. As far as

Hindus are concerned there are many ways of performing worship and

hence rituals. The common part of all the rituals is chanting the

Mantras in the praise of the God and offering Abhishek and Prasada.

Afetr doing this the richas say that the God/Celestial bodies should

bring joy and happiness to us. This clearly indicates that vedas

belive that these celestial bodies are capable of affecting our life

to the extent that they can give us joy and happiness. Vedas do not

quantify the amount by which they Affect our life. This means that

Vedas belive in CMAOL. Once answer to first question is given and

there acceptence by Vedas is confirmed we can say that our Astrology

is Vedic Astrology. Hence the name Vedic AStrology. Since vedas

belive in CBAOL, later on rishis found out how exactly they affect

our life and with the help of there clair intelligence they

developed this as a complete science. But since the basis was given

by Vedas it is called as Vedic Astrology. So to see the exact effect

rishis have to study their(CB) speed and movement and their other

physical attributs. Then rishis found out the combination of these

celestial bodies that gives the most happiness and joy. RIshis

called it as Muhurta;auspicious time.( As the fourth dimension Time

is out of CBs movements only.) Later they categorised these

auspicious time (Muhurta) on the basis of activity to be performed.

Hence developed the Muhurta Shashtra. That is how this science

evolved and is still evolving. The Gurus like Sanjay RAth ji , PVR

ji ,Chandrashekhar ji,Ramdas RAo ji,Sarajit ji and many other who

are not found on this list are as well constantly doing this.

 

Now your worshipping of Peta(stomach) 'peta pooja'. As I told you

earlier, pooja means to Hindus pacifying God by offering Abhishek

and Prasad. Here Peta (stomach) is consider as God in a lighter

sense and hence Abhishek and prasad of this stomach god will mean

putting some food (Anna) in the stomach. The effect will be that

stomach will be pacified and will not feel hungry and hence will be

happy and joyous. SO when we feel hungry,the 'stomach GOd' requires

pacification and hence peta pooja. That is the reason we say 'Anna

he poorna brahmha!'.

 

Read the richas that I gave you and interpret it yourself to get the

understanding. As I told you in earlier mails, over rationalization

leads to intelligence excess. More over interpretation is done on

the words used in the shlokas and their associated meaning. Meaning

of a word is not attaching your logic to the word. In that case

words may loose their universality.

 

For your information Delhi and Lahore are not in opposite

direction. Delhi is in North of India and Lahore is as well in North

of United India. Had Lahore been anywhere other than North we would

have said that Delhi and Lahore are in opposite directions. I again

say dont do excess of intelligence. What ever is simple try to

understand it as simple. Because most of the complex problems in the

world have simple solutions!.

 

Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

 

AmolMandar.

 

 

vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar <satpath1>

wrote:

>

> Namaste AmolMandar Ji,

>

> I had given the tests of truth before starting this discussion, I

have not deviated from them.

>

> The logic you gave does not qualify here. Because here the object

you are considering coming at a retarding speed is from a living

being (which is out of your control) and can change its speed at his

own will. Applying this logic on a car whose remote control is in

your hand , then only this logic qualifies. Therefore the capability

of the object changing its speed at will is not taken into

consideration by you .

>

> You have exaggerated the example I gave ,to Lahore ,and tried to

sideline the main issue. But even here only a person with no

knowledge of direction, in which the train is moving and geography

of Lahore and Delhi can derive the meaning "has not the train

reached Lahore' from "has delhi come". Because when somebody says in

a train that "has Delhi come" he is giving an indication of

direction of train in which it is moving. Delhi and Lahore are in

opposite direction.

>

> Okay now lets tell me what you think of sun, moon, stars etc. are

they living beings or non living beings ????

>

> What does the worship of the sun, moon etc. mean to you ????

>

> What is the meaning of phrase "lets do some `Pate(stomach)

pooja' " used very commonly even in TV ads. ????

>

> Is there one God or more Gods ????

>

>

>

> If Astrologers say that they have control over the celestial

bodies than if two persons one believer of astrology(like you) and

other nonbeliever like me walk bare footed on the heated sands of

Rajasthan in the month of May or June during day time(1.00 PM to

3.00PM) when the summer is at its peak. At that time if your feet

are not burnt( because sun is in your(astrologers control )and only

my feet are burnt then I will accept whatever you say, otherwise

accept what I am saying.

>

> Now answering your last question , I am member at other forums

also and at one of the forum other than this, Astrology is the

topic. So some of the mails I found useful to share with them ,I

shared. Wherever I get anything useful for me or others I share,

like here I shared some of the links of one web site in my previous

mails.

>

> I used tests of truth to check my statements and of others as well

to test the truthfulness. I had used the translation given by you

but did the interpretation based upon my experience and knowledge. I

am not taking the help of anybody except truth.

>

> But whether somebody is guiding me or not, how does it affects

when you consider yourself truthful ????

>

> Regards

>

> Rajeev

>

>

> amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote:Daer Rajeev Namste

>

> You are deviating like a Sarpa. Lets follow your way.

>

> See, how does it matter whether I have static or dymamic

> intelligence so far as I am correct! I dont know what does it mean

> as static and dynamic intelligence but I applied common sense to

> arrive at conclusion. When you see a object coming towards you in

a

> retarding speed, you can conclude without much knowledge of

physics

> and astrology that the object will stop sooner than later. As

simple

> as that. So applying common sense is static intelligence then its

ok

> to me.

>

> You have given the example of 'has Delhi come'? It means has the

> train reached Delhi? and not has the train reached Lahore! By

> streach of imagination if some one says that(Now read carefully)

>

> "Delhi is Lahore because ultimatly what is reaching to Delhi? It

is

> capturing Lahore! So when we say 'has Delhi come' we must

understand

> the context (being Indian) and the real meaning of Delhi. Then

only

> we will be true Indian. We take Delhi as as Delhi then it would

be

> wrong. Only anti-Indian will take Delhi as Delhi. The seeker of

> Truth will always follow the path of true nationalist. So one must

> see the Truth. Dont give blind eye to the fact that Delhi is

Lahore.

> Today your inaction and acceptence of Delhi as Delhi will make in

> India slave. So be awakened and make everyone realize the truth.

> Dont go by the word 'Delhi' but try to understand the sentiments

> attached with that word. There are many who have lost their

> everything for the word 'Delhi'. Were they all fools? No. They

were

> real patriots. Dictionary can help somebody to understand the

> meaning of a word , but it requires vision to understand the real

> meaning of a phrase , fools use only the literal meaning however

> everywhere. Dont follow dictionary but see the sentiments. My dear

> fellow countrymen.... Listen what I say. Look USA, UK ,and other

> countries and India. They are Nuclear powers. So are we. Till

> Indians followed the false concept as Delhi as Delhi Indians were

> suppressed by many invaders and Delhi was separeted from Lahore.

> Indians were themselves robbed of their independence and reduced

to

> the condition of a subject race,raped , converted to verious

> religions, suffer in a hundred different way like the donkey of

the

> potter because they belive in Delhi as Delhi and Lahore as Lahore.

> But taking Delhi as Lahore, like I explained now, One day India

will

> be considered as a powerful Nation. This is the meaning of Sukha

> and shanti. We will be happy (Sukha) only if we consider Delhi as

> Lahore and there will all be Peace (Shanti) if we belive that

Delhi

> is Lahore. So remember my dear fellow countrymen. Delhi is Lahore.

> Delhi is Sukha and Dlehi is Shanti to us. This is the Truth. It's

a

> proven fact that Truth always wins so we will win. Acquiring of

true

> knowledge(delhi is Lahore), and following it leads one towards

sukha

> and shanti what's wrong in saying it ? It is written in vedas. I

am

> giving you the truth and nothing but truth. I have used real

> translation and the meanings I gave are in line with the Vedas

(true

> knowledge), the meanings I gave are universal in nature, not

limited

> by time and place. We are universal. Vedas are universal. Delhi is

> Universal. Every Indian is universal. " etc. etc..

>

> Who can argue on this argument? No one. Because who makes this

> argument is so firm in his belief and faith (that Delhi is Lahore)

> that he never realizes that it is intelletual excess. In other

words

> Vaicharik Atirek. An intellectual extremest.

>

> Just a small doubt. Are you sending our communication to a third

> person and he/she is guiding you as to what to write and how are we

> (You two) correct? Just a doubt.

>

> Thnaks a lot for your Time and Space.

>

> AmolMandar

>

>

> vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

<satpath1>

> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste AmolMandar Ji,

> >

> > Amol Ji You wrote :

> > "I knew that you would reject but I never thought that you would

> do it in this fashion. "

> >

> > Rajeev's Reply :

> >

> > Before my answering you, it was known to you that what my reply

> would be, that's why you have not analysed my reply properly and

> thus raising such funny objections. Now tell me how did you know

> what my reply would be ? , is it because of the Astrological

> studies. If you say no, then what it ultimately proves is that you

> have a static intellect. A static intellect is when

predetermination

> takes the place of honest inquiry and truth is suppressed.

> >

> > If you say that through Astrology you knew it then even that is

> doubtful as no where I have given you my birth chart details.

> >

> >

> > Amol Ji You wrote :

> >

> >

> > "In that case they should have written 'I learn' instead I

> worship. Universally worship means pooja and Learning means

Abyasa.

> See the words used for indicating worship in the sloka.Does that

> mean Learning? No. It does not mean by any chance learning. WHat

> ever you have done is pure rationlization of the shloka. If you

see

> the actual word used in the shlokas then you will understand. It

is

> your interpretation that worship means learning but not supoorted

by

> Sanskrit or English dictionary. "

> >

> > Rajeev's Reply :

> >

> > In order to understand the true meanings of a passage we have to

> judge the context, capability of the subjects etc.,only then the

> true meaning of that passage can be understood . Like for e.g if

> somebody says that parrots(birds) are flying, then those who

already

> know about parrot's flying capability, immediately know that

parrots

> are flying.

> >

> > But if I say that `Tony' is flying. Then those who know that

Tony

> is a man would at once know that its not Tony who is flying but

the

> Airplane he is using is flying and Tony is in plane. Now Tony may

be

> the name of a Dog to others and soon.

> >

> > Similarly when sitting in a train we say to somebody that, has

> Delhi come ?. Then indirectly what we are asking is, has the train

> reached Delhi ?.

> >

> > Since the Delhi is the name of a place and that place does not

> have the capacity to move so saying , has Delhi come ? means

nothing

> but, have we reached Delhi ?

> >

> > Same thing has happened here, Worship of non living beings is

what

> we had written. What is worship ? its nothing but knowing ,

> attaining the thing to be worshipped in its true form. Now how you

> will know the thing to be worshipped it is only through learning

the

> attributes of that thing and making use of those attributes for

the

> benefit of self and man kind. So the meaning of worship what we

have

> done is right.

> >

> > Amol Ji You wrote :

> >

> > Is there any reference of elicpse in the richa? Whithout any

> reference why are you assuming they were refering to solar eclipse

> and moon tides? In that case it can mean anything under the Sun!

> Like collision of Stars or blak hole formation. Is it not?. But we

> should see the richa and then decide. You are not applying correct

> logic to understand the richa.

> >

> >

> > Rajeev's Reply :

> >

> > In the example I gave above even the passenger has not said that

> Delhi is stationary and train is moving. So what it proves that in

> order to understand it is not the literal meaning of the words but

> the context, capability of the subject etc. which decides the

> meaning.

> >

> > Also many times when we say that lets do the `Pate(stomach)

> pooja'. So even here by word pooja we are saying that lets eat

> something. So here Pooja means eating also.

> >

> > Dictionary can help somebody to understand the meaning of a

word ,

> but it requires vision to understand the real meaning of a

> phrase , fools use only the literal meaning however everywhere.

> >

> > Amol Ji You wrote :

> >

> >

> > See what has happened, you are analysing my interpretation but

not

> why i translated that richa in that fashion. Dont try to make me

> understand what my translation means. If I can translate it then I

> know what it means.Try to see whether translation is correct or

not.

> If it is so then you will understand the words used are

intentional.

> Had it not so I would have used the word 'Learn'

instead 'Worship'.

> Once you do that then follow the dictionary to know what worship

> means. So remove your bias and try to see the world. On one side

you

> say "God is biasless so we should try to become" but does not

follow

> it. Very funny!

> >

> >

> > Rajeev's Reply :

> >

> > Had you understood the meanings I gave, you would not have

raised

> the foolish objections.

> >

> > Amol Ji You wrote :

> >

> > Now you are confused yourself. You say "We are able to see stars

> in night time and thats what there becoming powerful by chandrama

> implies.During day due to sun light we are not able to see them."

> This statement one can make only because of lack of porper

knowledge

> or bias or confusion. You have right now all three qualities. Read

> agin I am sure you will realize what have you said. Look at the

> words used in richa and decide. This you could have said without I

> producing any proof. Since you are not talking about proof rather

it

> is predetermined thought process getting expressed.

> >

> > Rajeev's Reply :

> >

> > By now I hope you might have known who is confused , biased and

> have static intellect.

> >

> > Similar objections have been raised by you in other parts so I

am

> not answering those parts as I consider them already answered. If

> anything is left then let me know and I will answer them.

> >

> >

> > Amol Ji You wrote :

> >

> > Here you are sounding like a God unwantedly. Who are you to

decide

> what and how Sukha shanti is obtained? There is a good and simple

> way of understanding these words. But you will try to see what is

> not present in it.

> >

> > Rajeev's answer :

> >

> > Even here what we have written is practical, look USA, UK ,

other

> countries and recently India are Nuclear powers. Till Indians

> followed the mythologies like astrology , Indians were suppressed

by

> many invaders. Indians were themselves robbed of their

independence

> and reduced to the condition of a subject race,raped , converted

to

> verious religions, suffer in a hundred different way like the

donkey

> of the potter. But worshipping the sun ,stars etc like we

explained

> now India is considered as a powerful Nation. So the meaning of

> Sukha and shanti what we have taken is right.

> >

> > It's a proven fact that Truth always wins. So acquiring of true

> knowledge, and following it leads one towards sukha and shanti

> what's wrong in saying it ?

> >

> > Amol Ji You wrote :

> >

> > That is why I asked do you know Sanskrit? When you do not know

> > Sanskrit then that adds up indirections. What has happned is

> exactly that. You have my translation rather than translating it

> yourself. Read the Sanskrit version again and examine the words

used

> and try to come-up with your translation then you will understand

> what is learning and what is worshiping.

> >

> > Rajeev's reply :

> >

> > I have used your translation and the meanings I gave are in line

> with the Vedas(true knowledge), the meanings I gave are universal

in

> nature, not limited by time and place and proving loudly that

Vedas

> are universal for everybody.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Rajeev

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

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