Astrology is it Vedic ???????????? to Rajiv

[Guest guest]

Please donot take this mail badly as the example given is purely for

understanding the concept of faith and belief and not pointing towards any one

person but to all humans.

 

I have also given the definitions of faith and belief earlier. Here I am repeating again.

Faith requires no evidence while belief require evidences and reasoning.

 

Like for e.g a dog by nature is faithful to the person who gives him bread. The

dog do whatever best he is capable of to protect his master and his belongings.

The dog do not care whether his master is a criminal person or a virtuous

person. For a dog his master is everything .

 

Human beings by nature are inquisitive and believe something based upon evidences.

A child of 3-4 yrs age has full faith on whatever his parents and other family

members say, without asking for any evidence , I met many kids who says that

there parents are the wisest,strongest and richest in the world. Even if you

say that its wrong they would not accept it because of ignorance.

 

But as the child grows he start gaining inputs from other sources as well like

his friends , teachers, shops , TV etc. The same child now understands the

staus of his parents.

 

What it proves is that humans have faith on something which they inherited from

their dear ones and so far they donot know anything about it. But again the

human faith is nowhere near the faith of a dog. For a dog his master remains

the best throughout his life.

Similarly all of us because of our ignorance or no knowledge in many areas

believe whatever the experts(Which we believe) says.

 

Same thing applies to theology, religion etc. When a child is born he

automatically inherits the religion practiced by his parents. His parents also

inherited the same religion in same way .

 

Now unless a person (however old he is) increases his knowledge in the religion

he follows as well as other religions and compare that what he is following

conforms to the law of nature or not (like majority of people in many religions

still have faith that Sun , Moon, Shani, Brihaspati are living beings),

universality of truth, in conformance with the Gods nature and his attributes ,

teachings of altruistic teachers etc., till then he never reaches truth.

 

And this ignorance of ours is used by the so called religion gurus(otherwise

thugs and cheats) to devide the human beings and gain the power and money

through it.

 

The human beings only have the capability to know the truth and reject untruth,

but because of ignorance , stubborness etc. accepts untruth and reject truth.

 

What you call the blind followers of any religion who have faith in it like a

dog has on his master(whether good or bad). Are these blind followers humans or

dogs ?

 

There are undoubtedly many learned men among the followers of every religion.

Should they free themselves from prejudice, accept the universal truths – that

is those truths that are to be found alike in all religions and are of

universal application-,reject all things in which the various religions differ

and treat each other lovingly, it will be greatly to the advantage of the

world, for it cannot be denied that differences among the learned create bad

blood among the ignorant masses. This leads to the multiplication of all sorts

of sorrows and sufferings and destroys human happiness.

This evil, which is so dear to the heart of the selfish, has hurled mankind into

the deepest depths of misery. Whoever tries to do anything with the object of

benefiting mankind is opposed by selfish people and various kinds of obstacles

are thrown away. But finding solace in the belief that ultimately truth must

conquer and not error and that it is the path of rectitude alone that men and

women of learning and piety have always trodden, true teachers never become

indifferent to the promotion of public good and never give up the promulgation

of truth.

 

Bhagvad Gita says that everything calculated to the advancement of knowledge and

righteousness is like poison to begin with but like nectar in the end.

 

To have a rational analysis of all major religions of the world , read the book

"Light of Truth" available at.

 

www.vjsingh.com/books.html

 

 

Regards

 

Rajeev

 

 

 

monmuk111 <monmuk111 > wrote:

Hello Rajiv:Rajeev, I've said this once and I'll say it again. What you're

challenging is our faith. We on this dicussion group and we collectively as

Hindus feel that astrology is Vedic and astrology is an integral part of our

culture and our heritage. Now, I'm not calling atrology a science or a perfect

science as I myself haven't seen an astrologer make an accurate

prediction.However, what I'm saying is that for Hindus, astrology is sacred.

Ya, some unsculprous Brahmin families have exploited this sacredness, yet, it

still remains sacred for the Hindus.If you challenge the Vedicness of

astrology, then you should challenge the authenticity of the Jewish Torahs and

the authenticity of the Chritian Bible as well. Did Moses really to up the

mountain and have a discourse with God? I can't prove this, no Jew

can prove this, but the entire Jewish faith believes it.Did Jesus walk on water,

did Jesus cure the sick? I can't prove this, no Christian can prove this, but

the entire Christian faith believes it.Rajeev, you're challenging OUR FAITH.

FAITH is abstract, FAITH is a way of life. My FAITH doesn't need any postulate

or theorems to prove or dis-prove it. All that matters is that I'm a

BELIEVER.Therefore Rajeev, drop your infantile arguments and shed your hidden

agenda (whatever it may be) and go to a discussion group where you have an

opportunity to prove or dis-prove something TANGIBLE.We're believers and we'll

continue to be believers. You're wasting your words here.I'm hoping other

members of the board won't engage in any more arguments with Rajeev as it is

just a MOOT argument.Mukundvedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

<satpath1> wrote:> Namaste

Sanjay Rath Ji,> > It's simply a trick they play and it appears devine to

viewers.> If his faith is so strong then ask him to stand in the center of fire

pit for about 1 minute .> You have to take him on your shoulders.> Why donot

you master the art of moving on fire , if it is due to Gods. Had it been due to

God's grace your servant would have become your master.> > PC Sarkar the great

magician has once made the whole Rajdhani Express disappear before a crowd of

people and Basu Chaterjee the chief minister of Bengal was there to witness it.

But PC Sarkar declares that these are arts and so does many stage show artists.

Magicians can show you coins coming out from your pant. If they are so powerful

then after every show why do they beg for money before the crowd.> > These are

different types of tricks and nothing else. > >

Regards> > Rajeev> > Sanjay Rath <srath@s...> wrote:> > Om Gurave Namah> Dear

Rajeev> Challenge must be more meaningful. One of my servants walks the fire

every year as a test of his FAITH of Sri Lingaraja & Bhuvaneshwari devi, the

deitis of Bhuvaneswar. Are you willing to walk this fire. It is a small pit - 4

feet wide, 4 feet deep and about 30 feet long. Wood charcoal shall be burning at

the bottom of the pit and the fire shall be about 12-15 feet high. The condition

is simple - not a single hair must be burnt. Are you accepting this challenge.

If you lose, you must give up all this tirade against hinduism and must live in

Bhubaneswar (welcome to the land of the faithful ones) and practise your

sadhana. This event takes place every year and is attended by many people. Can

you pass this test of SHIVA? Do you have the faith and internal strength? if

not know that

your words are borne out of passion and are like poison for your own atma.> Best

Regards,> Sanjay Rath> http://srath.com> - >

onlyhari > vedic astrology > Thursday, September 11,

2003 5:51 AM> [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology is it Vedic ????????????

( To all concerned)> > > ||Om Brihaspataye Namah||> > Namaste Rajeev,> > If

Astrologers say that they have control over the celestial > bodies than if two

persons one believer of astrology(like you) and > other nonbeliever like me

walk bare footed on the heated sands of > Rajasthan in the month of May or June

during day time(1.00 PM to > 3.00PM) when the summer is at its peak. At that

time if your feet > are not burnt( because sun is in your(astrologers control

)and only > my feet are

burnt then I will accept whatever you say, otherwise > accept what I am saying.>

>> > ASTROLOGERS DO NOT CLAIM THAT THEY HAVE CONTROL OVER THE CELESTIAL >

BODIES. THAT IS THE CENTRAL PRINCIPLE PRACTICED ON THIS FORUM. AS > TANVIR

SAID, I WILL JOIN YOU IN CALLING ANY ASTROLOGER, WHO MAKES > SUCH A CLAIM, AS

FRAUD.> > SIR, YOU ARE EXTRAPOLATING AGAIN. YOU HAVE NOT MADE A SINGLE ATTEMPT

> TO GO THROUGH THE ARCHIVES AND SEE THE WORK DONE BY THE GURUS IN > SOLVING

THE COMMON MAN'S PROBLEMS. PLEASE DO NOT MAKE PROVOCATIVE > STATEMENTS LIKE

THIS. WE ARE WORKING HARD TO RESTORE THE GLORY OF > INDIA'S ANCIENT AND RICH

SPIRITUAL HERITAGE SO THAT THE FUTURE > GENERATIONS WILL BE BENEFITED. IF YOU

DO NOT LIKE WHAT WE ARE > ATTEMPTING TO DO, PLEASE TAKE YOUR TRUTHS,

EXPERIENCES AND > INTELLECTUAL BAGGAGE ELSEWHERE. THAT IS MY HUMBLE REQUEST TO

YOU.> >

Regards> Hari> > > > Archives: vedic astrology> >

Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> > To

UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > .......

May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

Krishnaarpanamastu || > >

Terms of Service. > > Sponsor> > Archives:

vedic astrology> > Group info:

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|| > > > >

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[Guest guest]

Yes I have not answered many mails, because most of the questions raised were

either already answered as well as time and resources (like availability of

computer and internet ) is also a limitation for all of us.

 

Yes you are right in absence of a true mediator the discussion may not end up to

the true conclusion. Thats why in the beginning itself I have asked that Vedas

are the ultimate authority to decide.

 

I have read about AdiGuru ShankraCharya Ji and I have a deep regard for him but

consider him a pious and virtuous human being and so does apply to Shri Krishna

and Rama and other great personalities.

 

My understanding is based on Vedas which clearly states God as eternal

,conscious,blissful,formless, birthless, omniscient,only one, omnipresent etc.

 

Where as Atma (jeev) is eternal,conscious etc.

 

And the material beings are eternal without conscious etc.

 

The atma goes through the cycles of death and birth in different yonis based

upon their Karmas. Its possible that we all have been through dogs or even

worse yonis before being human.

 

Entering of ShankraCharya in the body of a differnet human to learn knowledge

clearly indicates that ShankraCharya was a human being. Becasue had he been

God 's avtaar he must have all knowledge by default.

 

Entering of ShankraCharya in the body of a differnet human or any othe yoni is

possible only after his death. So here instead of taking the literal meaning we

have to understand the context and then decide the true meaning. Cheaters have

made people fools here.

 

Remember in mythology anything is possible . But truth is universal and not

limited by time and place. So entering of soul of ShankraCharya in other human

means that ShankraCharya learnt from that human whom you are considering dead,

the king was not dead but its the cheaters who manipulated it so as to make the

story look devine to blind followers. Even now if you would not enter my soul

and understand the context you would not understand what I have said.

 

Its not necessary to first cut your hand and then conclude that a sword can cut

hands too. Therefore its not necessary also to first enter into dogs body and

then conclude it faithfulness. Learned learns from the mistakes of others

instead of doing the mistakes themselves and then concluding. Similarly dog is

a faithful animal to wise .

 

I never said that Swami Dayananda is the only authority to truth. Truth is not a

property which belongs to a particular man, but its a universal thing. Swami

DayaNanda in his book "SatyarthPrakash(Light of Truth)" has written that if

somebody finds any fault then after analysis of the truth will be accepted .

 

But on Vedas all Vedic Rishis like Manu, Kapil, Brahma,Kanaad etc have the

opinion that they are error free and so does I accept. Because unless the truth

is realized till that time the teaching of altruistic teachers are considered as

truth.

 

Please ask few questions as time is not permiting me to write the whole answers.

I am sure the cheaters will be happy with this limitation of mine of not

answering , but the learned will understand me.

 

Regards

 

Rajeev

 

 

 

Prakash Kandpal <prakashkandpal > wrote:

Dear Rajeev,It is good to reach a conclusion based on the outcome of

discussions/debates yet what you say may be true to yourself but not to others

with whom you are trying to discuss/debate. To debate on a particular issue is

good but without a knowledgeable mediator it is difficult to reach a

conclusion.If you have read about Adiguru Shankaracharya ever he never

discussed with anybody without a wise and knowledgeable mediator (take the case

of Sh. Madan with whom he debated for 17 odd days-who later became his disciple

and Sh. Madan's wife was a mediator in that debate since she was suppossed to

be an Avatar of Goddess Saraswati). Later he debated with the wife of Sh.

Madan for which he had to enter the body of a dead king to debate on

"Kamashastra". Have you ever entered the body of a dog to define

its faith?I will strongly say that you have no right to define the faith of a

dog till the time you yourself were not at the dog's position or you yourself

are not a dog. I hope you don't mind since this is a debate whose outcome will

do some good. How do you say what Swami Dayanand Saraswati wrote was 100%

correct on Vedas?How do you say that the "tests of truth" are correct?How do we

take that whatever is written/translated on the link you provide is 100% correct

although I have not gone through it.Lord Krishna unfolded Bhagwat Gita because

he was an incarnation thus realized and he had a realized shishya who had some

doubts? It was lord whose maya was unfolding at Kurukshetra.Lord Rama was a

realized one and he was the only and real "maryada purushottam" at that point

of time when people were degrading. Lord Buddha gave sermons when he himself

realized truth and people

listened to it since people started believing his ideas.You need to realize the

god first which is inside your mortal body and then need to talk on "faith" and

"believe"I would forward you my earlier mail as well which you have not

responded although you are responding to some other mails wherein you see a

chance to prove your point.I hope you will take the above in positive sense and

will try to answer all the questions so to take it forward.With sincere

regards,Prakash Kandpalvedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

<satpath1> wrote:> Namaste Mukund Ji,> > Please donot take this mail

badly as the example given is purely for understanding the concept of faith and

belief and not pointing towards any one person but to all humans.> > I have

also given the definitions of faith and belief earlier. Here I am repeating

again.>

Faith requires no evidence while belief require evidences and reasoning.> >

Like for e.g a dog by nature is faithful to the person who gives him bread. The

dog do whatever best he is capable of to protect his master and his belongings.

The dog do not care whether his master is a criminal person or a virtuous

person. For a dog his master is everything .> > Human beings by nature are

inquisitive and believe something based upon evidences.> A child of 3-4 yrs age

has full faith on whatever his parents and other family members say, without

asking for any evidence , I met many kids who says that there parents are the

wisest,strongest and richest in the world. Even if you say that its wrong they

would not accept it because of ignorance.> > But as the child grows he start

gaining inputs from other sources as well like his friends , teachers, shops ,

TV etc.

The same child now understands the staus of his parents. > > What it proves is

that humans have faith on something which they inherited from their dear ones

and so far they donot know anything about it. But again the human faith is

nowhere near the faith of a dog. For a dog his master remains the best

throughout his life.> Similarly all of us because of our ignorance or no

knowledge in many areas believe whatever the experts(Which we believe) says. >

> Same thing applies to theology, religion etc. When a child is born he

automatically inherits the religion practiced by his parents. His parents also

inherited the same religion in same way . > > Now unless a person (however old

he is) increases his knowledge in the religion he follows as well as other

religions and compare that what he is following conforms to the law of nature

or not (like majority of people in many

religions still have faith that Sun , Moon, Shani, Brihaspati are living

beings), universality of truth, in conformance with the Gods nature and his

attributes , teachings of altruistic teachers etc., till then he never reaches

truth.> > And this ignorance of ours is used by the so called religion

gurus(otherwise thugs and cheats) to devide the human beings and gain the power

and money through it.> > The human beings only have the capability to know the

truth and reject untruth, but because of ignorance , stubborness etc. accepts

untruth and reject truth.> > What you call the blind followers of any religion

who have faith in it like a dog has on his master(whether good or bad). Are

these blind followers humans or dogs ?> > There are undoubtedly many learned

men among the followers of every religion. Should they free themselves from

prejudice, accept the

universal truths – that is those truths that are to be found alike in all

religions and are of universal application-,reject all things in which the

various religions differ and treat each other lovingly, it will be greatly to

the advantage of the world, for it cannot be denied that differences among the

learned create bad blood among the ignorant masses. This leads to the

multiplication of all sorts of sorrows and sufferings and destroys human

happiness.> > This evil, which is so dear to the heart of the selfish, has

hurled mankind into the deepest depths of misery. Whoever tries to do anything

with the object of benefiting mankind is opposed by selfish people and various

kinds of obstacles are thrown away. But finding solace in the belief that

ultimately truth must conquer and not error and that it is the path of

rectitude alone that men and women of learning and piety have always trodden,

true teachers never become

indifferent to the promotion of public good and never give up the promulgation

of truth.> > Bhagvad Gita says that everything calculated to the advancement

of knowledge and righteousness is like poison to begin with but like nectar in

the end. > > To have a rational analysis of all major religions of the world ,

read the book "Light of Truth" available at.> > www.vjsingh.com/books.html> >

> Regards> > Rajeev> > > > > > monmuk111 <monmuk111> wrote:> Hello

Rajiv:> > Rajeev, I've said this once and I'll say it again. What you're >

challenging is our faith. We on this dicussion group and we > collectively as

Hindus feel that astrology is Vedic and astrology is > an integral part of our

culture and our heritage. > > Now,

I'm not calling atrology a science or a perfect science as I > myself haven't

seen an astrologer make an accurate prediction.> > However, what I'm saying is

that for Hindus, astrology is sacred. Ya, > some unsculprous Brahmin families

have exploited this sacredness, > yet, it still remains sacred for the Hindus.>

> If you challenge the Vedicness of astrology, then you should > challenge the

authenticity of the Jewish Torahs and the authenticity > of the Chritian Bible

as well. > > Did Moses really to up the mountain and have a discourse with God?

I > can't prove this, no Jew can prove this, but the entire Jewish faith >

believes it.> > Did Jesus walk on water, did Jesus cure the sick? I can't prove

this, > no Christian can prove this, but the entire Christian faith believes >

it.> > Rajeev, you're challenging OUR FAITH. FAITH is

abstract, FAITH is a > way of life. My FAITH doesn't need any postulate or

theorems to prove > or dis-prove it. All that matters is that I'm a BELIEVER.>

> Therefore Rajeev, drop your infantile arguments and shed your hidden > agenda

(whatever it may be) and go to a discussion group where you > have an

opportunity to prove or dis-prove something TANGIBLE.> > We're believers and

we'll continue to be believers. You're wasting > your words here.> > I'm hoping

other members of the board won't engage in any more > arguments with Rajeev as

it is just a MOOT argument.> > Mukund> > > --- In

vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar <satpath1> > wrote:> >

Namaste Sanjay Rath Ji,> > > > It's simply a trick they play and it appears

devine to viewers.> > If his faith is so strong then ask him to

stand in the center of > fire pit for about 1 minute .> > You have to take him

on your shoulders.> > Why donot you master the art of moving on fire , if it is

due to > Gods. Had it been due to God's grace your servant would have become >

your master.> > > > PC Sarkar the great magician has once made the whole

Rajdhani > Express disappear before a crowd of people and Basu Chaterjee the >

chief minister of Bengal was there to witness it. But PC Sarkar > declares that

these are arts and so does many stage show artists. > Magicians can show you

coins coming out from your pant. If they are > so powerful then after every

show why do they beg for money before > the crowd.> > > > These are different

types of tricks and nothing else. > > > > Regards> > > > Rajeev> > > >

Sanjay Rath <srath@s...> wrote:> > > > Om Gurave Namah> > Dear Rajeev> >

Challenge must be more meaningful. One of my servants walks the > fire every

year as a test of his FAITH of Sri Lingaraja & > Bhuvaneshwari devi, the deitis

of Bhuvaneswar. Are you willing to > walk this fire. It is a small pit - 4 feet

wide, 4 feet deep and > about 30 feet long. Wood charcoal shall be burning at

the bottom of > the pit and the fire shall be about 12-15 feet high. The

condition is > simple - not a single hair must be burnt. Are you accepting this

> challenge. If you lose, you must give up all this tirade against > hinduism

and must live in Bhubaneswar (welcome to the land of the > faithful ones) and

practise your sadhana. This event takes place > every year and is attended by

many people. Can you pass this test of > SHIVA? Do you have the faith and

internal strength? if not know that > your words are borne out of passion and

are like poison for your own > atma.> > Best Regards,> > Sanjay Rath> >

http://srath.com> > - > > onlyhari > > To:

vedic astrology > > Thursday, September 11, 2003 5:51 AM>

> [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology is it Vedic ???????????? ( > To all

concerned)> > > > > > ||Om Brihaspataye Namah||> > > > Namaste Rajeev,> > > If

Astrologers say that they have control over the celestial > > bodies than if

two persons one believer of astrology(like you) and > > other nonbeliever like

me walk bare footed on the heated sands of > > Rajasthan in the month of May or

June during day time(1.00 PM to > > 3.00PM)

when the summer is at its peak. At that time if your feet > > are not burnt(

because sun is in your(astrologers control )and only > > my feet are burnt then

I will accept whatever you say, otherwise > > accept what I am saying.> > >> > >

> ASTROLOGERS DO NOT CLAIM THAT THEY HAVE CONTROL OVER THE CELESTIAL > > BODIES.

THAT IS THE CENTRAL PRINCIPLE PRACTICED ON THIS FORUM. AS > > TANVIR SAID, I

WILL JOIN YOU IN CALLING ANY ASTROLOGER, WHO MAKES > > SUCH A CLAIM, AS FRAUD.>

> > > SIR, YOU ARE EXTRAPOLATING AGAIN. YOU HAVE NOT MADE A SINGLE > ATTEMPT > >

TO GO THROUGH THE ARCHIVES AND SEE THE WORK DONE BY THE GURUS IN > > SOLVING THE

COMMON MAN'S PROBLEMS. PLEASE DO NOT MAKE PROVOCATIVE > > STATEMENTS LIKE THIS.

WE ARE WORKING HARD TO RESTORE THE GLORY OF > > INDIA'S ANCIENT AND RICH

SPIRITUAL HERITAGE SO THAT THE FUTURE

> > GENERATIONS WILL BE BENEFITED. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE WHAT WE ARE > > ATTEMPTING

TO DO, PLEASE TAKE YOUR TRUTHS, EXPERIENCES AND > > INTELLECTUAL BAGGAGE

ELSEWHERE. THAT IS MY HUMBLE REQUEST TO YOU.> > > > Regards> > Hari> > > > > >

> > Archives: vedic astrology> > > > Group info:

vedic astrology/info.html> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE:

Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > > > > ....... May

Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > Your use of is subject to the

Terms of > Service. > > > > Sponsor> > > >

Archives: vedic astrology> > > > Group info:

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[Guest guest]

Namaste ,

This is perhaps my last mail to this site , I think I gave suffificient time and

answered with the best of my knowledge and understanding. The fight between

right and wrong is there since the creation of this universe and will remain

till the end of it.

If any body wants to still discuss then please send me personal mails . I found

discussion with AmolMandar Ji good , though we have not agreed to each other

view.

And even in the last reply AmolMandar Ji sent, he has missed the context by

saying Delhi and Lahore in North direction. His view is right, if we are

sitting in a space ship etc., but as I said the person is sitting in a Train

,so Delhi is in south direction compared to Lahore. So both Delhi and Lahore

are in opposite directions with respect to the movement of train.

In Mumbai the train lines are used to decide the directions for e.g we say

Bandra east, and Bandra west, Andheri(east) and Andheri(west) and soon. I donot

understand why he did so ? is it right practice ?

Amol don't answer me or to anybody but answer to yourself and you will get the answer.

I wish all of you people to have good health and success in truthful endeavours.

I am specially grateful to the site administrator , he is a virtuous soul . I

have been to various islamic sites as well, these people moderate their sites

to suppress the truth and let only those mails published which favour islam.

May the almighty inspire us to the way of truth

Thanks to all of you again.

Rajeev

Prakash Ji here are my answers.

In many mails I have said that Vedas are from God , so the objections raised by

you of not taking God as the mediator is automatically vanishes. Vedas are

eternal as God is eternal and Vedas are God’s knowledge. The attributes of an

object which himself is eternal are also eternal. And Vedas are not the

physical books , as books have limited life, but Vedas are the knowledge

written in them and the knowledge is subject of intellect.

I have belief on God’s existence . In Yajur Veda chapter 40, God says I am near

to the learned and far from the fools, Fools consider God moving and located at

some place whereas for learned God is everywhere. The design and engineering

within the our own body , creation of universe and their control requires some

universal controller as well as testimony of Vedic Rishis .

I am not the only decider of Truth , but you have missed the context totally

..Its not my fault. But truth is one . In Manusmriti its written that Vedas are

the ultimate authority to decide upon truth other scriptures are helpful but I

don’t believe in God’s Avtaar , its only you who used the word Avtaar for

Madan’s wife and many people consider Adi ShankraCharya as Shiva’s Avtaar and

also many films are there on this. I have infact condemned the concept of

Avtaar, forget about my accepting it. I don’t believe in Avtaar, as God cannot

take birth. As far as use of SatyarthPrakash is concerned so far as ,it is in

line with truth I will accept it and if anywhere any doubt is there I would not

accept it. And as I said earlier that truth is not a personal property of

anybody but belongs to all . Even I donot know when you were born, if the facts

are distorted then truth can be derived by using tests of truths.Prakash Kandpal

<prakashkandpal > wrote: Namaste Rajeev Ji, Rajeev Ji you wroteYes I

have not answered many mails, because most of the questions raised were either

already answered as well as time and resources (like availability of computer

and internet) is also a limitation for all of us. My answerRajeev ji I didn't

see any mails pertaining to the questions I have raised if I am not mistaken

here. Yes, I understand that the resources are limited with all of us. Rajeev

Ji you wroteYes you are right in absence of a true mediator the discussion may

not end up to the true conclusion. That's why in the beginning itself I have

asked that Vedas are the ultimate authority to decide. My answerYou seem to be

logical in your approach in accepting the truth that one need's a mediator to

decide on the outcome of a debate.

Yet, you have tried to make it a point that there is no other superior authority

other than Vedas is the deciding faculty. Alas! You have discarded God whose

limbs Vedas are by saying that Vedas are the only deciding authority and not

the God who created Vedas! Do you believe in this statement or is it your

faith or you have read it somewhere or you have seen someone writing this

statement that Vedas are the ultimate authority of decision? Please furnish

proof.Rajeev Ji you wroteI have read about AdiGuru ShankraCharya Ji and I have

a deep regard for him but consider him a pious and virtuous human being and so

does apply to Shri Krishna and Rama and other great personalities. My

answerYes, you are right that all these great people were born as human beings

first and were pious souls.Rajeev Ji you wroteMy understanding is based on

Vedas which clearly states God as

eternal, conscious, blissful, formless, birthless, omniscient, only one,

omnipresent etc. My answerAbove you have discarded God wherein you wrote that

Vedas are the only deciding authority. Now you are changing colour between

words and stating that God does exist and trying to give words for God! Is it

your faith or believe? Have you read this before? Have you seen God? If not

how can you define or answer that. Please furnish proof with respect to the

above.Rajeev Ji you wroteWhere as Atma (jeev) is eternal, conscious etc. My

answerSo, now besides Vedas & God, Atma becomes another deciding faculty.

Isn't it?Rajeev ji you wroteAnd the material beings are eternal without

conscious etc. My answerYes, you are correct. So, they cann't decide on

anything.Rajeev Ji you wroteThe atma goes through the cycles of

death and birth in different yonis based upon their Karmas. Its possible that we

all have been through dogs or even worse yonis before being human.My

answerRajeev ji, consciously you don't remember whether you were a dog in some

earlier birth. Why do you have to include "we all" when I asked certain

questions from you. Are you the decider of all our wills besides Vedas, God &

Atma? Who gave you this right? Can you please elaborate since few lines above

you have written that Vedas are the only deciding faculty?Rajeev ji you

wroteEntering of ShankraCharya in the body of a differnet human to learn

knowledge clearly indicates that ShankraCharya was a human being. Becasue had

he been God 's avtaar he must have all knowledge by default.My answerSo now you

have started believing in God's avatar's as well. Is it mentioned in Vedas at

all – i.e. about

avatars?Rajeev ji you wroteEntering of ShankraCharya in the body of a differnet

human or any othe yoni is possible only after his death. So here instead of

taking the literal meaning we have to understand the context and then decide

the true meaning. Cheaters have made people fools here. My answerRajeev ji

please elaborate on the contextual meaning above. As far as what I have read I

have already written that if you want me to elaborate on this I will do

that.Rajeev ji you wroteRemember in mythology anything is possible. But truth

is universal and not limited by time and place. So entering of soul of

ShankraCharya in other human means that ShankraCharya learnt from that human

whom you are considering dead, the king was not dead but its the cheaters who

manipulated it so as to make the story look devine to blind followers. Even now

if you would not enter my soul and understand the

context you would understand what I have said. My answerAt least you accept that

this would have been written by some cheats. According to your own words –

"tell me how do I believe that the Vedas you have read or believe are in its

original form". Here, I see a possibility that the Vedas you have read may

have been written/translated by some cheats. Rajeev ji you wroteIts not

necessary to first cut your hand and then conclude that a sword can cut hands

too. Therefore its not necessary also to first enter into dogs body and then

conclude it faithfulness. Learned learns from the mistakes of others instead of

doing the mistakes themselves and then concluding. Similarly dog is a faithful

animal to wise.My answerNow you have again come to the "dog" issue. OK I would

request the learned members and Gurus is there any kind of similarity in cutting

hands and faithfulness of

dog. Haven't you ever heard of dogs that hurt their own owners.Rajeev ji you

wroteI never said that Swami Dayananda is the only authority to truth. Truth is

not a property which belongs to a particular man, but its a universal thing.

Swami DayaNanda in his book "SatyarthPrakash(Light of Truth)" has written that

if somebody finds any fault then after analysis of the truth will be accepted.

My answerSo, you need to mention whether you go according to Swami DayaNanda or

you have your own "tests for truth". Since you gave examples of

"SatyarthPrakash" in the last mail I think I need to ask this.Rajeev ji you

wroteBut on Vedas all Vedic Rishis like Manu, Kapil, Brahma,Kanaad etc have the

opinion that they are error free and so does I accept. My answerRajeev ji have

you got any proof about the time when these great Rishis were born and gave

these comments in front of you.

If not then is there any guarantee that these facts are not distorted.Rajeev ji

you wroteBecause unless the truth is realized till that time the teaching of

altruistic teachers are considered as truth.My answerYou still have to go a

long while to realize the ultimate truth before you show its validity. Since

according to me Lord Rama realized the truth, lord Krishna realized the truth

and lord Buddha realized the truth and many other great saints.Rajeev ji you

wrotePlease ask few questions as time is not permiting me to write the whole

answers. I am sure the cheaters will be happy with this limitation of mine of

not answering , but the learned will understand me. My answerRajeev ji, to

understand the truth and realize it you have to go through all this or even you

may have to go through this further or wander like lord Buddha to enlighten

yourself.With sincere

regards, Prakash Kandpalvedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

<satpath1> wrote:> Namaste Praksh Ji,> > Yes I have not answered many

mails, because most of the questions raised were either already answered as

well as time and resources (like availability of computer and internet ) is

also a limitation for all of us. > > Yes you are right in absence of a true

mediator the discussion may not end up to the true conclusion. Thats why in the

beginning itself I have asked that Vedas are the ultimate authority to decide. >

> I have read about AdiGuru ShankraCharya Ji and I have a deep regard for him

but consider him a pious and virtuous human being and so does apply to Shri

Krishna and Rama and other great personalities. > > My understanding is based

on Vedas which clearly states God as eternal ,conscious,blissful,formless,

birthless, omniscient,only one, omnipresent etc. > > Where as Atma (jeev) is

eternal,conscious etc.> > And the material beings are eternal without

conscious etc.> > The atma goes through the cycles of death and birth in

different yonis based upon their Karmas. Its possible that we all have been

through dogs or even worse yonis before being human.> > Entering of

ShankraCharya in the body of a differnet human to learn knowledge clearly

indicates that ShankraCharya was a human being. Becasue had he been God 's

avtaar he must have all knowledge by default.> > Entering of ShankraCharya in

the body of a differnet human or any othe yoni is possible only after his

death. So here instead of taking the literal meaning we have to understand the

context and then decide the true meaning. Cheaters have made people fools

here.> >

Remember in mythology anything is possible . But truth is universal and not

limited by time and place. So entering of soul of ShankraCharya in other human

means that ShankraCharya learnt from that human whom you are considering dead,

the king was not dead but its the cheaters who manipulated it so as to make the

story look devine to blind followers. Even now if you would not enter my soul

and understand the context you would not understand what I have said.> > Its

not necessary to first cut your hand and then conclude that a sword can cut

hands too. Therefore its not necessary also to first enter into dogs body and

then conclude it faithfulness. Learned learns from the mistakes of others

instead of doing the mistakes themselves and then concluding. Similarly dog is

a faithful animal to wise .> > I never said that Swami Dayananda is the only

authority to truth. Truth is not a property

which belongs to a particular man, but its a universal thing. Swami DayaNanda in

his book "SatyarthPrakash(Light of Truth)" has written that if somebody finds

any fault then after analysis of the truth will be accepted . > > But on

Vedas all Vedic Rishis like Manu, Kapil, Brahma,Kanaad etc have the opinion

that they are error free and so does I accept. Because unless the truth is

realized till that time the teaching of altruistic teachers are considered as

truth.> > Please ask few questions as time is not permiting me to write the

whole answers. I am sure the cheaters will be happy with this limitation of

mine of not answering , but the learned will understand me.> > Regards> >

Rajeev> > > > > Prakash Kandpal <prakashkandpal> wrote:> Dear Rajeev,>

> It is good to reach a

conclusion based on the outcome of > discussions/debates yet what you say may be

true to yourself but not > to others with whom you are trying to discuss/debate.

> > To debate on a particular issue is good but without a knowledgeable >

mediator it is difficult to reach a conclusion.> > If you have read about

Adiguru Shankaracharya ever he never discussed > with anybody without a wise

and knowledgeable mediator (take the case > of Sh. Madan with whom he debated

for 17 odd days-who later became > his disciple and Sh. Madan's wife was a

mediator in that debate since > she was suppossed to be an Avatar of Goddess

Saraswati). Later he > debated with the wife of Sh. Madan for which he had to

enter the body > of a dead king to debate on "Kamashastra". > > Have you ever

entered the body of a dog to define its faith?> > I will strongly say

that you have no right to define the faith of a > dog till the time you yourself

were not at the dog's position or you > yourself are not a dog. I hope you

don't mind since this is a debate > whose outcome will do some good. > > How

do you say what Swami Dayanand Saraswati wrote was 100% correct > on Vedas?> >

How do you say that the "tests of truth" are correct?> > How do we take that

whatever is written/translated on the link you > provide is 100% correct

although I have not gone through it.> > Lord Krishna unfolded Bhagwat Gita

because he was an incarnation thus > realized and he had a realized shishya who

had some doubts? It was > lord whose maya was unfolding at Kurukshetra.> > Lord

Rama was a realized one and he was the only and real "maryada > purushottam" at

that point of time when people were degrading. > >

Lord Buddha gave sermons when he himself realized truth and people > listened to

it since people started believing his ideas.> > You need to realize the god

first which is inside your mortal body > and then need to talk on "faith" and

"believe"> > I would forward you my earlier mail as well which you have not >

responded although you are responding to some other mails wherein you > see a

chance to prove your point.> > I hope you will take the above in positive sense

and will try to > answer all the questions so to take it forward.> > With

sincere regards,> > Prakash Kandpal> > > --- In

vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar <satpath1> > wrote:> >

Namaste Mukund Ji,> > > > Please donot take this mail badly as the example

given is purely > for understanding the concept of faith and

belief and not pointing > towards any one person but to all humans.> > > > I

have also given the definitions of faith and belief earlier. Here > I am

repeating again.> > Faith requires no evidence while belief require evidences

and > reasoning.> > > > Like for e.g a dog by nature is faithful to the person

who gives > him bread. The dog do whatever best he is capable of to protect his

> master and his belongings. The dog do not care whether his master is > a

criminal person or a virtuous person. For a dog his master is > everything .> >

> > Human beings by nature are inquisitive and believe something based > upon

evidences.> > A child of 3-4 yrs age has full faith on whatever his parents

and > other family members say, without asking for any evidence , I met > many

kids who says

that there parents are the wisest,strongest and > richest in the world. Even if

you say that its wrong they would not > accept it because of ignorance.> > > >

But as the child grows he start gaining inputs from other sources > as well like

his friends , teachers, shops , TV etc. The same child > now understands the

staus of his parents. > > > > What it proves is that humans have faith on

something which they > inherited from their dear ones and so far they donot

know anything > about it. But again the human faith is nowhere near the faith

of a > dog. For a dog his master remains the best throughout his life.> >

Similarly all of us because of our ignorance or no knowledge in > many areas

believe whatever the experts(Which we believe) says. > > > > Same thing

applies to theology, religion etc. When a child is born > he

automatically inherits the religion practiced by his parents. His > parents also

inherited the same religion in same way . > > > > Now unless a person (however

old he is) increases his knowledge in > the religion he follows as well as

other religions and compare that > what he is following conforms to the law of

nature or not (like > majority of people in many religions still have faith

that Sun , > Moon, Shani, Brihaspati are living beings), universality of truth,

in > conformance with the Gods nature and his attributes , teachings of >

altruistic teachers etc., till then he never reaches truth.> > > > And this

ignorance of ours is used by the so called religion gurus> (otherwise thugs

and cheats) to devide the human beings and gain the > power and money through

it.> > > > The human beings only have the capability to

know the truth and > reject untruth, but because of ignorance , stubborness etc.

accepts > untruth and reject truth.> > > > What you call the blind followers of

any religion who have faith in > it like a dog has on his master(whether good or

bad). Are these blind > followers humans or dogs ?> > > > There are undoubtedly

many learned men among the followers of every > religion. Should they free

themselves from prejudice, accept the > universal truths – that is those truths

that are to be found alike in > all religions and are of universal

application-,reject all things in > which the various religions differ and

treat each other lovingly, it > will be greatly to the advantage of the world,

for it cannot be > denied that differences among the learned create bad blood

among the > ignorant masses. This leads to the multiplication of

all sorts of > sorrows and sufferings and destroys human happiness.> > > > This

evil, which is so dear to the heart of the selfish, has hurled > mankind into

the deepest depths of misery. Whoever tries to do > anything with the object of

benefiting mankind is opposed by selfish > people and various kinds of obstacles

are thrown away. But finding > solace in the belief that ultimately truth must

conquer and not error > and that it is the path of rectitude alone that men and

women of > learning and piety have always trodden, true teachers never become >

indifferent to the promotion of public good and never give up the >

promulgation of truth.> > > > Bhagvad Gita says that everything calculated to

the advancement of > knowledge and righteousness is like poison to begin with

but like > nectar in the end. > > > > To have a

rational analysis of all major religions of the world , > read the book "Light

of Truth" available at.> > > > www.vjsingh.com/books.html> > > > > >

Regards> > > > Rajeev> > > > > > > > > > > > monmuk111 <monmuk111>

wrote:> > Hello Rajiv:> > > > Rajeev, I've said this once and I'll say it

again. What you're > > challenging is our faith. We on this dicussion group and

we > > collectively as Hindus feel that astrology is Vedic and astrology > is >

> an integral part of our culture and our heritage. > > > > Now, I'm not

calling atrology a science or a perfect science as I > > myself haven't seen an

astrologer make an accurate prediction.> > > > However, what I'm saying is that

for Hindus, astrology is sacred. > Ya, > > some unsculprous Brahmin families

have exploited this sacredness, > > yet, it still remains sacred for the

Hindus.> > > > If you challenge the Vedicness of astrology, then you should > >

challenge the authenticity of the Jewish Torahs and the > authenticity > > of

the Chritian Bible as well. > > > > Did Moses really to up the mountain and

have a discourse with God? > I > > can't prove this, no Jew can prove this, but

the entire Jewish > faith > > believes it.> > > > Did Jesus walk on water, did

Jesus cure the sick? I can't prove > this, > > no Christian can prove this, but

the entire Christian faith > believes > > it.> > > > Rajeev, you're challenging

OUR FAITH. FAITH is abstract, FAITH is a > > way of life. My FAITH doesn't

need any postulate or theorems to > prove > > or dis-prove it. All that matters

is that I'm a BELIEVER.> > > > Therefore Rajeev, drop your infantile arguments

and shed your > hidden > > agenda (whatever it may be) and go to a discussion

group where you > > have an opportunity to prove or dis-prove something

TANGIBLE.> > > > We're believers and we'll continue to be believers. You're

wasting > > your words here.> > > > I'm hoping other members of the board won't

engage in any more > > arguments with Rajeev as it is just a MOOT argument.> > >

> Mukund> > > > > > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar >

<satpath1> > > wrote:> > > Namaste Sanjay Rath Ji,> > > > > > It's simply

a trick they play and it appears devine to

viewers.> > > If his faith is so strong then ask him to stand in the center of >

> fire pit for about 1 minute .> > > You have to take him on your shoulders.> >

> Why donot you master the art of moving on fire , if it is due to > > Gods. Had

it been due to God's grace your servant would have > become > > your master.> >

> > > > PC Sarkar the great magician has once made the whole Rajdhani > >

Express disappear before a crowd of people and Basu Chaterjee the > > chief

minister of Bengal was there to witness it. But PC Sarkar > > declares that

these are arts and so does many stage show artists. > > Magicians can show you

coins coming out from your pant. If they are > > so powerful then after every

show why do they beg for money before > > the crowd.> > > > > >

These are different types of tricks and nothing else. > > > > > > Regards> > >

> > > Rajeev> > > > > > Sanjay Rath <srath@s...> wrote:> > > > > > Om Gurave

Namah> > > Dear Rajeev> > > Challenge must be more meaningful. One of my

servants walks the > > fire every year as a test of his FAITH of Sri Lingaraja

& > > Bhuvaneshwari devi, the deitis of Bhuvaneswar. Are you willing to > >

walk this fire. It is a small pit - 4 feet wide, 4 feet deep and > > about 30

feet long. Wood charcoal shall be burning at the bottom of > > the pit and the

fire shall be about 12-15 feet high. The condition > is > > simple - not a

single hair must be burnt. Are you accepting this > > challenge. If you lose,

you must give up all this tirade against > >

hinduism and must live in Bhubaneswar (welcome to the land of the > > faithful

ones) and practise your sadhana. This event takes place > > every year and is

attended by many people. Can you pass this test > of > > SHIVA? Do you have the

faith and internal strength? if not know > that > > your words are borne out of

passion and are like poison for your > own > > atma.> > > Best Regards,> > >

Sanjay Rath> > > http://srath.com> > > - > > >

onlyhari > > > vedic astrology > > > Thursday,

September 11, 2003 5:51 AM> > > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology is it

Vedic ???????????? > ( > > To all concerned)> > > > > > > > > ||Om Brihaspataye

Namah||> >

> > > > Namaste Rajeev,> > > > If Astrologers say that they have control over

the celestial > > > bodies than if two persons one believer of astrology(like

you) > and > > > other nonbeliever like me walk bare footed on the heated sands

of > > > Rajasthan in the month of May or June during day time(1.00 PM to > > >

3.00PM) when the summer is at its peak. At that time if your feet > > > are not

burnt( because sun is in your(astrologers control )and > only > > > my feet are

burnt then I will accept whatever you say, otherwise > > > accept what I am

saying.> > > >> > > > > > ASTROLOGERS DO NOT CLAIM THAT THEY HAVE CONTROL OVER

THE > CELESTIAL > > > BODIES. THAT IS THE CENTRAL PRINCIPLE PRACTICED ON THIS

FORUM. AS > > > TANVIR SAID, I WILL JOIN YOU IN CALLING

ANY ASTROLOGER, WHO MAKES > > > SUCH A CLAIM, AS FRAUD.> > > > > > SIR, YOU ARE

EXTRAPOLATING AGAIN. YOU HAVE NOT MADE A SINGLE > > ATTEMPT > > > TO GO THROUGH

THE ARCHIVES AND SEE THE WORK DONE BY THE GURUS IN > > > SOLVING THE COMMON

MAN'S PROBLEMS. PLEASE DO NOT MAKE PROVOCATIVE > > > STATEMENTS LIKE THIS. WE

ARE WORKING HARD TO RESTORE THE GLORY OF > > > INDIA'S ANCIENT AND RICH

SPIRITUAL HERITAGE SO THAT THE FUTURE > > > GENERATIONS WILL BE BENEFITED. IF

YOU DO NOT LIKE WHAT WE ARE > > > ATTEMPTING TO DO, PLEASE TAKE YOUR TRUTHS,

EXPERIENCES AND > > > INTELLECTUAL BAGGAGE ELSEWHERE. THAT IS MY HUMBLE REQUEST

TO YOU.> > > > > > Regards> > > Hari> > > > > > > > > > > > Archives:

vedic astrology> > > > > > Group info:

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