Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 previous births THIS IS RIDICULOUS.IN NE-INDIA ,CHINA AND MANY OTHER PARTS OF WORLD PEOPLE KILL AND EAT SNAKES,SO THAT MEANS CHINESE SHOULD BE REELING IN MISERY.BUT THE REALITY IS CHINA IS DOING FAR BETTER AND IS FAR MORE STRONGER THAN THE VEGETABLE EATING INDIA.INFACT IN USA I MET A FAMILY WHERE EATING RATTLESNAKE MEAT WAS A TRADITION.BUT THE FAMILY WAS PROSPEROUS VERY FOTRTUNATE FROM ALL WORLDLY RESPECTS.IN INDIA BLIND FAITH AND SUPERSTITION HAVE ALWAYS RULED AND CONCEPTS LIKE KAAL SARP AND SADE SATHI PROBABLY WERE DESIGNED TO MINT MONEY OR FRIGHTEN IGNORANT ILLITERATE PEOPLE.INDIA WITH ALL ITS SUPERSTITION IS A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY WHERE 70 CRORE PEOPLE HAVE NO ACCESS TO BASIC FACILITIS OF LIFE.HENCE NON SENSE LIKE KAAL SARP IS EASY TO USE HERE. SUDEEPSrinath Ram <srinath_atreya > wrote: , "Srinath Ram" <srinath_atreya> wrote: || Jai Sadguru Dutta ||Normally, persons afflicted with Kala sarpa dosh have to work very hard even to get small rewards. They are hardworkers and have to face many difficulties in life. Well, there is none on this earth who does not suffer. But here, we have to understand that we have to eat the fruits of our past actions ( Sanchita Karma ). Astrologically, when Rahu-Ketu conjuncts other planets or, in other words, the other planets are under the nodal influence of Rahu and Ketu, it is treated as Sagraha Sarpa Dosha. Kalasarpa Dosha is said to be caused when all the planets are hemmed on one side between Rahu and Ketu. Depending upon the position of Rahu-Ketu and the planets, twelve different types of Kalasarpa Dosha are said to exist.It would be highly inappropriate to jump into any conclusion without a complete, thorough inspection of a person's horoscope. Hence I strongly advise you to consult a good astrologer. Many great personalities, who have performed wonderful deeds during their lifetime are said to have suffered from Kalasarpa Dosha. To name a few: Abraham Lincoln, Kitoor Rani Chennamma, Jhansirani Lakshmibai, Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, Emperor Nero, Chengiz Khan, Jesus Christ, Mussolini etc. Although all these great personalities achieved great things in life, their end was terrible. The point to note here is that among the great personalities mentioned, five were killed. I have given a general remedy for persons with Naga dosh in message no 5022 A person is afflicted with Kala sarpa dosh or Naga dosh if he has killed snakes, destroyed their mounds, destroyed their eggs or troubled them in any way, knowingly or unknowingly, in his present or previous births. NO PUJA, OR MANTRA WILL BE HELPFUL TO THEM, UNTIL THEY GET RID OF THE SNAKE GOD'S CURSE. Kalasarpa Dosha is said to cause several difficulties during the course of one's life: unhappiness in the family, continuous lossin business, miserable married life, childlessness, ill health, skin diseases, trouble in eyes, ears and throat, poverty and financial difficulties, delay in marriage, improper development of body organs, loss and litigations, striving very hard to progress in life, always worried. People, who have built their houses on plots after demolishing the snake pits, are found to face ill health as long as they live in that house. A person who kills a serpent invites serious Dosha onto himself. Such persons may often see cobras both in reality and in dreams. The effect of this particular dosha is very severe. The remedial measures suggested to overcome these doshas are SARPA-SAMSKARA similar to the Samaskara (ceremonies,last rites) done after the death of a person, Nagaprathistha, Nagabali, Nagathambula, Naga Puthalika Vidhi, Navagraha Shanthi and Kalasarpa Shanthi depending upon the type of Dosha. These poojas have to be performed through people who are well versed in performing such Shanthis. Lord Subramanya (popularly known as Lord Muruga in Tamil Nadu and Lord Kartikeya in North India) who is widely worshipped as the serpent deity and as forgiver of all doshas connected with serpents normally called Naga Dosha,Sarpa Dosha and Kalasarpa Dosha. In South India, especially in Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh, this Lord is very widely worshiped in the serpent (naga) form. Lord Subramanya is called Sarpa Dosha Nivaraka (remedier). In the Southern part of India, almost in all temples and also under the peepal tree (aswatHa vrksha) along the road sides, Naga idols are installed on platforms. You can see such platforms built at the entrance of every village with different type of idols duly installed on it. Each type of idol is earmarked as a remedy for a particular type of dosha or fulfilling a particular wish of the devotee. THE ABOVE SAID SHANTIS CAN BE PERFORMED IN YOUR HOUSE OR IN HOLY PLACES CONNECTED TO THE LORD LIKE: KUKKE SUBRAHMANYA (D.K. Dist, KARNATAKA), GHATI SUBRAHMANYA (near Bangalore) PALANI (TAMILNADU) ETC. THE AFFLICTED PERSON HIMSELF SHOULD PERFORM THE RITUAL UNDER THE GUIDANCE OF AN ABLE PRIEST. OTHERWISE THE RITUAL BECOMES FUTILE.--- In , madhavi shah <shah_madhavishah> wrote:> Dear Friends> > My daughter has kalyog sarp and she is going to sit in a competitive exam. Do the Kalyogsarp effect on her study and her success? > Please reply> > Madhavi Shah> > > > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREEMessenger--- End forwarded message ---Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 Dear Shri Sudeep Namaste >INDIA WITH ALL ITS SUPERSTITION IS A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY WHERE 70 CRORE PEOPLE HAVE NO ACCESS TO >BASIC FACILITIS OF LIFE. It is really necessay to criticise India for such a small issue? India is indeed third world when the 'world' is defined by first world USA/UK/JAPAN. India is third world as far as finances and money generating abilities are concerned but I hope you will India is first world when it comes to Spiritual and Philisophical aspects. So it is all about perception. I am not saying that India should not worry about being considered as third world economically by rest of the world. But the society and culture is in India does not pay much importance to the comodity called as 'MONEY'. You will find many serious discussions about 'Money taking astrologer'. Even in the list and in Indian context earning huge amount of money is considered as 'bad'. So point is that people in India are more concerened about their next life rather than present life! This is the basic difference. So many came and settled here and adopted rituals and cultures of India leaving their. Indians stood with re-incarnation theory. No change in this. That is why India is third world in the eyes of 'first world'. But their 'first world' is of economics/finance/money which is and was secondary in the eyes of Indians. Again basic facilities are defined by first world. When one vists to these poorest of poor in remote part of the Indian villeage the 'first world' looks with pity. That itself is wrong. One must appriciate the basic values from the point of view of India. We must have sense of appriciation to 'see' the graffiti on huts created with bamboo and cow dung. One must have that vision to 'see' the cleaniness(Physical/Mental/Moral) they try to maintain inspite of all odds. But when 'first world' sees this then the problems begins. I do not want to defend Indians SUPERSTITION but I have seen several times entire stadium standing when the score is on 111 in the game of Cricket. One of the umpire even prefers to dance without fear of being labelled as superstious. When people from 'first world' dance because of superstition we the 'third world' people can not criticise but similar activity by us will be taken with all possible 'first worldness' to tag us as 'third world'. Thats is the problem. There is no direct relationship between SUPERSTITION and 'first world'. Please visit the URL to find how 'first world' people pay more because of SUPERSTITION http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=28746 India is poor(economically) not because it deserves to be poor rather it is other way round. We are poor as we prefer to be poor to secure good next birth! More money yields more sins hence difficult next birth. This is the basic principle. Simple and strightforward. This has been Adopted not only by todays 70 crores but crores of past several centuries as well. Again there is a paradigm shift now a days because of Computers and internet but very early to say anything predictivly. So there is no point in dragging India and its 'Third worldness' to answer a person on the Kala-Sarpa. Why not answer to a person rather than to Indian or American? Ofcourse this is my personal view about my 'First and Third World'. If you still feel like commenting on India in this context and manner I have no problems. Thanks a lot for your Time and Space. AmolMandar vedic astrology, sudeep suri <vaudeva99> wrote: > A person is afflicted with Kala sarpa dosh or Naga dosh if he has > killed snakes, destroyed their mounds, destroyed their eggs or > troubled them in any way, knowingly or unknowingly, in his present or > > previous births > THIS IS RIDICULOUS.IN NE-INDIA ,CHINA AND MANY OTHER PARTS OF WORLD PEOPLE KILL AND EAT SNAKES,SO THAT MEANS CHINESE SHOULD BE REELING IN MISERY.BUT THE REALITY IS CHINA IS DOING FAR BETTER AND IS FAR MORE STRONGER THAN THE VEGETABLE EATING INDIA.INFACT IN USA I MET A FAMILY WHERE EATING RATTLESNAKE MEAT WAS A TRADITION.BUT THE FAMILY WAS PROSPEROUS VERY FOTRTUNATE FROM ALL WORLDLY RESPECTS.IN INDIA BLIND FAITH AND SUPERSTITION HAVE ALWAYS RULED AND CONCEPTS LIKE KAAL SARP AND SADE SATHI PROBABLY WERE DESIGNED TO MINT MONEY OR FRIGHTEN IGNORANT ILLITERATE PEOPLE.INDIA WITH ALL ITS SUPERSTITION IS A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY WHERE 70 CRORE PEOPLE HAVE NO ACCESS TO BASIC FACILITIS OF LIFE.HENCE NON SENSE LIKE KAAL SARP IS EASY TO USE HERE. > SUDEEP > > Srinath Ram <srinath_atreya> wrote: > , "Srinath Ram" <srinath_atreya> > wrote: > || Jai Sadguru Dutta || > > > Normally, persons afflicted with Kala sarpa dosh have to work very > hard even to get small rewards. They are hardworkers and have to face > many difficulties in life. Well, there is none on this earth who does > not suffer. But here, we have to understand that we have to eat the > fruits of our past actions ( Sanchita Karma ). > > > Astrologically, when Rahu-Ketu conjuncts other planets or, in other > words, the other planets are under the nodal influence of Rahu and > Ketu, it is treated as Sagraha Sarpa Dosha. > > Kalasarpa Dosha is said to be caused when all the planets are hemmed > on one side between Rahu and Ketu. Depending upon the position of > Rahu-Ketu and the planets, twelve different types of Kalasarpa Dosha > are said to exist. > > > It would be highly inappropriate to jump into any conclusion without > a complete, thorough inspection of a person's horoscope. Hence I > strongly advise you to consult a good astrologer. Many great > personalities, who have performed wonderful deeds during their > lifetime are said to have suffered from Kalasarpa Dosha. To name a > few: Abraham Lincoln, Kitoor Rani Chennamma, Jhansirani Lakshmibai, > Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, Emperor Nero, Chengiz Khan, Jesus Christ, > Mussolini etc. Although all these great personalities achieved great > things in life, their end was terrible. The point to note here is > that among the great personalities mentioned, five were killed. > > I have given a general remedy for persons with Naga dosh in message > no 5022 > > A person is afflicted with Kala sarpa dosh or Naga dosh if he has > killed snakes, destroyed their mounds, destroyed their eggs or > troubled them in any way, knowingly or unknowingly, in his present or > previous births. > > NO PUJA, OR MANTRA WILL BE HELPFUL TO THEM, UNTIL THEY GET RID OF THE > SNAKE GOD'S CURSE. > > Kalasarpa Dosha is said to cause several difficulties during the > course of one's life: unhappiness in the family, continuous loss > in > business, miserable married life, childlessness, ill health, skin > diseases, trouble in eyes, ears and throat, poverty and financial > difficulties, delay in marriage, improper development of body organs, > loss and litigations, striving very hard to progress in life, always > worried. People, who have built their houses on plots after > demolishing the snake pits, are found to face ill health as long as > they live in that house. > > A person who kills a serpent invites serious Dosha onto himself. Such > persons may often see cobras both in reality and in dreams. The > effect of this particular dosha is very severe. > > The remedial measures suggested to overcome these doshas are SARPA- > SAMSKARA similar to the Samaskara (ceremonies,last rites) done after > the death of a person, Nagaprathistha, Nagabali, Nagathambula, Naga > Puthalika Vidhi, Navagraha Shanthi and Kalasarpa Shanthi depending > upon the type of Dosha. These poojas have to be performed through > people who are well versed in performing such Shanthis. > > Lord Subramanya (popularly known as Lord Muruga in Tamil Nadu and > Lord Kartikeya in North India) who is widely worshipped as the > serpent deity and as forgiver of all doshas connected with serpents > normally called Naga Dosha,Sarpa Dosha and Kalasarpa Dosha. In South > India, especially in Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh, this Lord is very > widely worshiped in the serpent (naga) form. > > Lord Subramanya is called Sarpa Dosha Nivaraka (remedier). In the > Southern part of India, almost in all temples and also under the > peepal tree (aswatHa vrksha) along the road sides, Naga idols are > installed on platforms. You can see such platforms built at the > entrance of every village with different type of idols duly installed > on it. Each type of idol is earmarked as a remedy for a particular > type of dosha or fulfilling a particular wish of the devotee. > > > THE ABOVE SAID SHANTIS CAN BE PERFORMED IN YOUR HOUSE OR IN HOLY > PLACES CONNECTED TO THE LORD LIKE: KUKKE SUBRAHMANYA (D.K. Dist, > KARNATAKA), GHATI SUBRAHMANYA (near Bangalore) PALANI (TAMILNADU) > ETC. > > THE AFFLICTED PERSON HIMSELF SHOULD PERFORM THE RITUAL UNDER THE > GUIDANCE OF AN ABLE PRIEST. OTHERWISE THE RITUAL BECOMES FUTILE. > > > , madhavi shah <shah_madhavishah> > wrote: > > Dear Friends > > > > My daughter has kalyog sarp and she is going to sit in a > competitive exam. Do the Kalyogsarp effect on her study and her > success? > > > Please reply > > > > Madhavi Shah > > > > > > > > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE > > Messenger > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 DEAR SIR THIS STATEMENT IS NOT CORRECT.I HAVE LIVED THE LAST 8 YEARS IN AUSTRALIA,CANADA AND I CAN SAY THAT INDIANS ARE THE MOST MONEY MINDED PEOPLE.THE CORRUPTION AND GREED IN INDIA IS UNPARALLED ,FOR EVERYTHING IN INDIA YOU HAVE TO BRIBE.THE LEVEL OF HYPOCRISY IN INDIA IT NOT MATCHED GLOBALLY.AND MIND YOU I LOVE INDIA VERY DEEPLY.I AM A DEVOTEE OF SRI RAMAKRISHNA,SWAMI SIVANANDA AND RAMANA MAHARISHI AND I HAVE DEVOTED LOT OF MY TIME TRAVELLING IN THE HIMALAYAS.I HAVE TRAVELLED DOWN TO KANYA KUMARI ALSO.AND IT SADDENS MY HEART THAT INSPITE OF THE GREAT YOGIC AND VEDANTIC WISDOM INDIANS ON WHOLE DO NOT PRACTICE ANYTHING WHICH SAGES OF YORE HAVE INSTRUCTED THE PEOPLE TO DO.THE POPULATION GROWTH IN INDIA HAS ALREADY ASSUMED DANGEROUS PROPOTIONS,LITERACY AND HEALTH CARE ARE NOT TAKEN CARE OF AND ON TOP OF THIS YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT NEXT BIRTH.RAMANA MAHARISHI USED TO SAY DO YOU KNOW THE PRESENT THAT YOU ARE BOTHERED ABOUT THE FUTURE.AND SIR THE QUALITY OF POLITICIANS WE HAVE IS A MERE REFLECTION ON THE QUALITY OF PEOPLE WE HAVE IN INDIA. OM amolmandar <amolmandar > wrote: Dear Shri Sudeep Namaste>INDIA WITH ALL ITS SUPERSTITION IS A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY WHERE 70 CRORE PEOPLE HAVE NO ACCESS TO >BASIC FACILITIS OF LIFE.It is really necessay to criticise India for such a small issue? India is indeed third world when the 'world' is defined by first world USA/UK/JAPAN. India is third world as far as finances and money generating abilities are concerned but I hope you will India is first world when it comes to Spiritual and Philisophical aspects. So it is all about perception. I am not saying that India should not worry about being considered as third world economically by rest of the world. But the society and culture is in India does not pay much importance to the comodity called as 'MONEY'. You will find many serious discussions about 'Money taking astrologer'. Even in the list and in Indian context earning huge amount of money is considered as 'bad'. So point is that people in India are more concerened about their next life rather than present life! This is the basic difference. So many came and settled here and adopted rituals and cultures of India leaving their. Indians stood with re-incarnation theory. No change in this. That is why India is third world in the eyes of 'first world'. But their 'first world' is of economics/finance/money which is and was secondary in the eyes of Indians.Again basic facilities are defined by first world. When one vists to these poorest of poor in remote part of the Indian villeage the 'first world' looks with pity. That itself is wrong. One must appriciate the basic values from the point of view of India. We must have sense of appriciation to 'see' the graffiti on huts created with bamboo and cow dung. One must have that vision to 'see' the cleaniness(Physical/Mental/Moral) they try to maintain inspite of all odds. But when 'first world' sees this then the problems begins. I do not want to defend Indians SUPERSTITION but I have seen several times entire stadium standing when the score is on 111 in the game of Cricket. One of the umpire even prefers to dance without fear of being labelled as superstious. When people from 'first world' dance because of superstition we the 'third world' people can not criticise but similar activity by us will be taken with all possible 'first worldness' to tag us as 'third world'. Thats is the problem.There is no direct relationship between SUPERSTITION and 'first world'. Please visit the URL to find how 'first world' people pay more because of SUPERSTITION http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=28746India is poor(economically) not because it deserves to be poor rather it is other way round. We are poor as we prefer to be poor to secure good next birth! More money yields more sins hence difficult next birth. This is the basic principle. Simple and strightforward. This has been Adopted not only by todays 70 crores but crores of past several centuries as well. Again there is a paradigm shift now a days because of Computers and internet but very early to say anything predictivly.So there is no point in dragging India and its 'Third worldness' to answer a person on the Kala-Sarpa. Why not answer to a person rather than to Indian or American? Ofcourse this is my personal view about my 'First and Third World'. If you still feel like commenting on India in this context and manner I have no problems. Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.AmolMandar--- In vedic astrology, sudeep suri <vaudeva99> wrote:> A person is afflicted with Kala sarpa dosh or Naga dosh if he has > killed snakes, destroyed their mounds, destroyed their eggs or > troubled them in any way, knowingly or unknowingly, in his present or > > previous births> THIS IS RIDICULOUS.IN NE-INDIA ,CHINA AND MANY OTHER PARTS OF WORLD PEOPLE KILL AND EAT SNAKES,SO THAT MEANS CHINESE SHOULD BE REELING IN MISERY.BUT THE REALITY IS CHINA IS DOING FAR BETTER AND IS FAR MORE STRONGER THAN THE VEGETABLE EATING INDIA.INFACT IN USA I MET A FAMILY WHERE EATING RATTLESNAKE MEAT WAS A TRADITION.BUT THE FAMILY WAS PROSPEROUS VERY FOTRTUNATE FROM ALL WORLDLY RESPECTS.IN INDIA BLIND FAITH AND SUPERSTITION HAVE ALWAYS RULED AND CONCEPTS LIKE KAAL SARP AND SADE SATHI PROBABLY WERE DESIGNED TO MINT MONEY OR FRIGHTEN IGNORANT ILLITERATE PEOPLE.INDIA WITH ALL ITS SUPERSTITION IS A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY WHERE 70 CRORE PEOPLE HAVE NO ACCESS TO BASIC FACILITIS OF LIFE.HENCE NON SENSE LIKE KAAL SARP IS EASY TO USE HERE.> SUDEEP> > Srinath Ram <srinath_atreya> wrote:> --- In , "Srinath Ram" <srinath_atreya> > wrote:> || Jai Sadguru Dutta ||> > > Normally, persons afflicted with Kala sarpa dosh have to work very > hard even to get small rewards. They are hardworkers and have to face > many difficulties in life. Well, there is none on this earth who does > not suffer. But here, we have to understand that we have to eat the > fruits of our past actions ( Sanchita Karma ). > > > Astrologically, when Rahu-Ketu conjuncts other planets or, in other > words, the other planets are under the nodal influence of Rahu and > Ketu, it is treated as Sagraha Sarpa Dosha. > > Kalasarpa Dosha is said to be caused when all the planets are hemmed > on one side between Rahu and Ketu. Depending upon the position of > Rahu-Ketu and the planets, twelve different types of Kalasarpa Dosha > are said to exist.> > > It would be highly inappropriate to jump into any conclusion without > a complete, thorough inspection of a person's horoscope. Hence I > strongly advise you to consult a good astrologer. Many great > personalities, who have performed wonderful deeds during their > lifetime are said to have suffered from Kalasarpa Dosha. To name a > few: Abraham Lincoln, Kitoor Rani Chennamma, Jhansirani Lakshmibai, > Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, Emperor Nero, Chengiz Khan, Jesus Christ, > Mussolini etc. Although all these great personalities achieved great > things in life, their end was terrible. The point to note here is > that among the great personalities mentioned, five were killed. > > I have given a general remedy for persons with Naga dosh in message > no 5022 > > A person is afflicted with Kala sarpa dosh or Naga dosh if he has > killed snakes, destroyed their mounds, destroyed their eggs or > troubled them in any way, knowingly or unknowingly, in his present or > previous births. > > NO PUJA, OR MANTRA WILL BE HELPFUL TO THEM, UNTIL THEY GET RID OF THE > SNAKE GOD'S CURSE. > > Kalasarpa Dosha is said to cause several difficulties during the > course of one's life: unhappiness in the family, continuous loss> in > business, miserable married life, childlessness, ill health, skin > diseases, trouble in eyes, ears and throat, poverty and financial > difficulties, delay in marriage, improper development of body organs, > loss and litigations, striving very hard to progress in life, always > worried. People, who have built their houses on plots after > demolishing the snake pits, are found to face ill health as long as > they live in that house. > > A person who kills a serpent invites serious Dosha onto himself. Such > persons may often see cobras both in reality and in dreams. The > effect of this particular dosha is very severe. > > The remedial measures suggested to overcome these doshas are SARPA-> SAMSKARA similar to the Samaskara (ceremonies,last rites) done after > the death of a person, Nagaprathistha, Nagabali, Nagathambula, Naga > Puthalika Vidhi, Navagraha Shanthi and Kalasarpa Shanthi depending > upon the type of Dosha. These poojas have to be performed through > people who are well versed in performing such Shanthis. > > Lord Subramanya (popularly known as Lord Muruga in Tamil Nadu and > Lord Kartikeya in North India) who is widely worshipped as the > serpent deity and as forgiver of all doshas connected with serpents > normally called Naga Dosha,Sarpa Dosha and Kalasarpa Dosha. In South > India, especially in Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh, this Lord is very > widely worshiped in the serpent (naga) form. > > Lord Subramanya is called Sarpa Dosha Nivaraka (remedier). In the > Southern part of India, almost in all temples and also under the > peepal tree (aswatHa vrksha) along the road sides, Naga idols are > installed on platforms. You can see such platforms built at the > entrance of every village with different type of idols duly installed > on it. Each type of idol is earmarked as a remedy for a particular > type of dosha or fulfilling a particular wish of the devotee. > > > THE ABOVE SAID SHANTIS CAN BE PERFORMED IN YOUR HOUSE OR IN HOLY > PLACES CONNECTED TO THE LORD LIKE: KUKKE SUBRAHMANYA (D.K. Dist, > KARNATAKA), GHATI SUBRAHMANYA (near Bangalore) PALANI (TAMILNADU) > ETC. > > THE AFFLICTED PERSON HIMSELF SHOULD PERFORM THE RITUAL UNDER THE > GUIDANCE OF AN ABLE PRIEST. OTHERWISE THE RITUAL BECOMES FUTILE.> > > , madhavi shah <shah_madhavishah> > wrote:> > Dear Friends> > > > My daughter has kalyog sarp and she is going to sit in a > competitive exam. Do the Kalyogsarp effect on her study and her > success?> > > Please reply> > > > Madhavi Shah> > > > > > > > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE> > Messenger> --- End forwarded message ---> > > > Sponsor> > Archives: vedic astrology> > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE MessengerArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 Dear Sudeep, I think you are mistaking about snakes.Here the Sarpa Dosha is connected what is known as a knnd of Sarpa which is yellow in colour and has U shape in back of its hood.This Sarpa is considered as Holy by our Sages and anybody who kills such kind of Sarpas will suffer from Sarpa Dosha,Kaala Sarpa Dosha etc. I hope this helps you. Surrendered at the Holy Feet of Mother Bhuvaneshwari, Ramadas Rao.sudeep suri <vaudeva99 > wrote: A person is afflicted with Kala sarpa dosh or Naga dosh if he has killed snakes, destroyed their mounds, destroyed their eggs or troubled them in any way, knowingly or unknowingly, in his present or previous births THIS IS RIDICULOUS.IN NE-INDIA ,CHINA AND MANY OTHER PARTS OF WORLD PEOPLE KILL AND EAT SNAKES,SO THAT MEANS CHINESE SHOULD BE REELING IN MISERY.BUT THE REALITY IS CHINA IS DOING FAR BETTER AND IS FAR MORE STRONGER THAN THE VEGETABLE EATING INDIA.INFACT IN USA I MET A FAMILY WHERE EATING RATTLESNAKE MEAT WAS A TRADITION.BUT THE FAMILY WAS PROSPEROUS VERY FOTRTUNATE FROM ALL WORLDLY RESPECTS.IN INDIA BLIND FAITH AND SUPERSTITION HAVE ALWAYS RULED AND CONCEPTS LIKE KAAL SARP AND SADE SATHI PROBABLY WERE DESIGNED TO MINT MONEY OR FRIGHTEN IGNORANT ILLITERATE PEOPLE.INDIA WITH ALL ITS SUPERSTITION IS A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY WHERE 70 CRORE PEOPLE HAVE NO ACCESS TO BASIC FACILITIS OF LIFE.HENCE NON SENSE LIKE KAAL SARP IS EASY TO USE HERE. SUDEEPSrinath Ram <srinath_atreya > wrote: , "Srinath Ram" <srinath_atreya> wrote: || Jai Sadguru Dutta ||Normally, persons afflicted with Kala sarpa dosh have to work very hard even to get small rewards. They are hardworkers and have to face many difficulties in life. Well, there is none on this earth who does not suffer. But here, we have to understand that we have to eat the fruits of our past actions ( Sanchita Karma ). Astrologically, when Rahu-Ketu conjuncts other planets or, in other words, the other planets are under the nodal influence of Rahu and Ketu, it is treated as Sagraha Sarpa Dosha. Kalasarpa Dosha is said to be caused when all the planets are hemmed on one side between Rahu and Ketu. Depending upon the position of Rahu-Ketu and the planets, twelve different types of Kalasarpa Dosha are said to exist.It would be highly inappropriate to jump into any conclusion without a complete, thorough inspection of a person's horoscope. Hence I strongly advise you to consult a good astrologer. Many great personalities, who have performed wonderful deeds during their lifetime are said to have suffered from Kalasarpa Dosha. To name a few: Abraham Lincoln, Kitoor Rani Chennamma, Jhansirani Lakshmibai, Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, Emperor Nero, Chengiz Khan, Jesus Christ, Mussolini etc. Although all these great personalities achieved great things in life, their end was terrible. The point to note here is that among the great personalities mentioned, five were killed. I have given a general remedy for persons with Naga dosh in message no 5022 A person is afflicted with Kala sarpa dosh or Naga dosh if he has killed snakes, destroyed their mounds, destroyed their eggs or troubled them in any way, knowingly or unknowingly, in his present or previous births. NO PUJA, OR MANTRA WILL BE HELPFUL TO THEM, UNTIL THEY GET RID OF THE SNAKE GOD'S CURSE. Kalasarpa Dosha is said to cause several difficulties during the course of one's life: unhappiness in the family, continuous lossin business, miserable married life, childlessness, ill health, skin diseases, trouble in eyes, ears and throat, poverty and financial difficulties, delay in marriage, improper development of body organs, loss and litigations, striving very hard to progress in life, always worried. People, who have built their houses on plots after demolishing the snake pits, are found to face ill health as long as they live in that house. A person who kills a serpent invites serious Dosha onto himself. Such persons may often see cobras both in reality and in dreams. The effect of this particular dosha is very severe. The remedial measures suggested to overcome these doshas are SARPA-SAMSKARA similar to the Samaskara (ceremonies,last rites) done after the death of a person, Nagaprathistha, Nagabali, Nagathambula, Naga Puthalika Vidhi, Navagraha Shanthi and Kalasarpa Shanthi depending upon the type of Dosha. These poojas have to be performed through people who are well versed in performing such Shanthis. Lord Subramanya (popularly known as Lord Muruga in Tamil Nadu and Lord Kartikeya in North India) who is widely worshipped as the serpent deity and as forgiver of all doshas connected with serpents normally called Naga Dosha,Sarpa Dosha and Kalasarpa Dosha. In South India, especially in Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh, this Lord is very widely worshiped in the serpent (naga) form. Lord Subramanya is called Sarpa Dosha Nivaraka (remedier). In the Southern part of India, almost in all temples and also under the peepal tree (aswatHa vrksha) along the road sides, Naga idols are installed on platforms. You can see such platforms built at the entrance of every village with different type of idols duly installed on it. Each type of idol is earmarked as a remedy for a particular type of dosha or fulfilling a particular wish of the devotee. THE ABOVE SAID SHANTIS CAN BE PERFORMED IN YOUR HOUSE OR IN HOLY PLACES CONNECTED TO THE LORD LIKE: KUKKE SUBRAHMANYA (D.K. Dist, KARNATAKA), GHATI SUBRAHMANYA (near Bangalore) PALANI (TAMILNADU) ETC. THE AFFLICTED PERSON HIMSELF SHOULD PERFORM THE RITUAL UNDER THE GUIDANCE OF AN ABLE PRIEST. OTHERWISE THE RITUAL BECOMES FUTILE.--- In , madhavi shah <shah_madhavishah> wrote:> Dear Friends> > My daughter has kalyog sarp and she is going to sit in a competitive exam. Do the Kalyogsarp effect on her study and her success? > Please reply> > Madhavi Shah> > > > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREEMessenger--- End forwarded message ---Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Win TVs, Bikes, DVD players and more! Click on India Promos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Dear Sudeep Namaste >AND SIR THE QUALITY OF POLITICIANS WE HAVE IS A MERE REFLECTION ON >THE QUALITY OF PEOPLE WE HAVE IN INDIA. This is what we have been hearing for so many years. Muslim invaders in the 16th century had similar view. British govt. in 17th had the similar view. After independence it was 'first world' had a similar view. In the late 80s 'first' among 'third' had similar view regarding 'third' of the 'third world'. Today that is why we see many from 'first' states (New Delhi,MS,KA,TN,AP)accusing Laloo (or Bihar for that matter) as 'third'.(I am doubtful about those who accused Laloo about their ability to lead even corporation election.) The quality of Indian politician and people have been criticised several times but fact remains that India is the only country with firm belief in democracy. Accusing our own people is a shortest and easiest way to get cheap popularity. It is more so when one is doing with respect to 'first world'. When you see the politics and people of other countries you will find that India is not the exception to all these things. Every country has it in some way or the other. The 'first world' hypocrisy is manifested with the event of war. Their hypocrisy is manifested in their colonial ambitions. Their hypocrisy is manifested with prime minisiters getting convicted in bribery charges inspite of bribery being legal in their own land. Their hypocrisy is manifested with president getting convicted in out and out active SEX scandal. So there is no point in pointing fingers at India and its people. Human nature is same every where. Only thing is that Indian people have more apportunities to express this nature. Indain people and India as such is beyond comprehension of many. Many tried and failed. Alone 'Nangga Fakir' was too much for them. Lastly, I suppose this is not the forum to criticise India and its people. Thanks a lot for your Time and Space. AmolMAndar vedic astrology, sudeep suri <vaudeva99> wrote: > But the society and culture is in India does not pay much > importance to the comodity called as 'MONEY' > DEAR SIR > THIS STATEMENT IS NOT CORRECT.I HAVE LIVED THE LAST 8 YEARS IN AUSTRALIA,CANADA AND I CAN SAY THAT INDIANS ARE THE MOST MONEY MINDED PEOPLE.THE CORRUPTION AND GREED IN INDIA IS UNPARALLED ,FOR EVERYTHING IN INDIA YOU HAVE TO BRIBE.THE LEVEL OF HYPOCRISY IN INDIA IT NOT MATCHED GLOBALLY.AND MIND YOU I LOVE INDIA VERY DEEPLY.I AM A DEVOTEE OF SRI RAMAKRISHNA,SWAMI SIVANANDA AND RAMANA MAHARISHI AND I HAVE DEVOTED LOT OF MY TIME TRAVELLING IN THE HIMALAYAS.I HAVE TRAVELLED DOWN TO KANYA KUMARI ALSO.AND IT SADDENS MY HEART THAT INSPITE OF THE GREAT YOGIC AND VEDANTIC WISDOM INDIANS ON WHOLE DO NOT PRACTICE ANYTHING WHICH SAGES OF YORE HAVE INSTRUCTED THE PEOPLE TO DO.THE POPULATION GROWTH IN INDIA HAS ALREADY ASSUMED DANGEROUS PROPOTIONS,LITERACY AND HEALTH CARE ARE NOT TAKEN CARE OF AND ON TOP OF THIS YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT NEXT BIRTH.RAMANA MAHARISHI USED TO SAY DO YOU KNOW THE PRESENT THAT YOU ARE BOTHERED ABOUT THE FUTURE.AND SIR THE QUALITY OF POLITICIANS WE HAVE IS A MERE > REFLECTION ON THE QUALITY OF PEOPLE WE HAVE IN INDIA. > OM > > > amolmandar <amolmandar> wrote: > > Dear Shri Sudeep Namaste > > >INDIA WITH ALL ITS SUPERSTITION IS A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY WHERE 70 > CRORE PEOPLE HAVE NO ACCESS TO > >BASIC FACILITIS OF LIFE. > > It is really necessay to criticise India for such a small issue? > India is indeed third world when the 'world' is defined by first > world USA/UK/JAPAN. India is third world as far as finances and > money generating abilities are concerned but I hope you will India is > first world when it comes to Spiritual and Philisophical aspects. > > So it is all about perception. I am not saying that India should not > worry about being considered as third world economically by rest of > the world. But the society and culture is in India does not pay much > importance to the comodity called as 'MONEY'. You will find many > serious discussions about 'Money taking astrologer'. Even in the list > and in Indian context earning huge amount of money is considered > as 'bad'. > > So point is that people in India are more concerened about their next > life rather than present life! This is the basic difference. So many > came and settled here and adopted rituals and cultures of India > leaving their. Indians stood with re-incarnation theory. No change in > this. That is why India is third world in the eyes of 'first world'. > But their 'first world' is of economics/finance/money which is and > was secondary in the eyes of Indians. > > Again basic facilities are defined by first world. When one vists to > these poorest of poor in remote part of the Indian villeage > the 'first world' looks with pity. That itself is wrong. One must > appriciate the basic values from the point of view of India. We must > have sense of appriciation to 'see' the graffiti on huts created > with bamboo and cow dung. One must have that vision to 'see' the > cleaniness(Physical/Mental/Moral) they try to maintain inspite of all > odds. But when 'first world' sees this then the problems begins. > > I do not want to defend Indians SUPERSTITION but I have seen several > times entire stadium standing when the score is on 111 in the game of > Cricket. One of the umpire even prefers to dance without fear of > being labelled as superstious. When people from 'first world' dance > because of superstition we the 'third world' people can not criticise > but similar activity by us will be taken with all possible 'first > worldness' to tag us as 'third world'. Thats is the problem. > > There is no direct relationship between SUPERSTITION and 'first > world'. Please visit the URL to find how 'first world' people pay > more because of SUPERSTITION > > http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=28746 > > India is poor(economically) not because it deserves to be poor > rather it is other way round. We are poor as we prefer to be poor to > secure good next birth! More money yields more sins hence difficult > next birth. This is the basic principle. Simple and strightforward. > This has been Adopted not only by todays 70 crores but crores of past > several centuries as well. Again there is a paradigm shift now a days > because of Computers and internet but very early to say anything > predictivly. > > So there is no point in dragging India and its 'Third worldness' to > answer a person on the Kala-Sarpa. Why not answer to a person rather > than to Indian or American? > > Ofcourse this is my personal view about my 'First and Third World'. > If you still feel like commenting on India in this context and manner > I have no problems. > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space. > > AmolMandar > > > > > vedic astrology, sudeep suri <vaudeva99> > wrote: > > A person is afflicted with Kala sarpa dosh or Naga dosh if he has > > killed snakes, destroyed their mounds, destroyed their eggs or > > troubled them in any way, knowingly or unknowingly, in his present > or > > > > previous births > > THIS IS RIDICULOUS.IN NE-INDIA ,CHINA AND MANY OTHER PARTS OF WORLD > PEOPLE KILL AND EAT SNAKES,SO THAT MEANS CHINESE SHOULD BE REELING IN > MISERY.BUT THE REALITY IS CHINA IS DOING FAR BETTER AND IS FAR MORE > STRONGER THAN THE VEGETABLE EATING INDIA.INFACT IN USA I MET A FAMILY > WHERE EATING RATTLESNAKE MEAT WAS A TRADITION.BUT THE FAMILY WAS > PROSPEROUS VERY FOTRTUNATE FROM ALL WORLDLY RESPECTS.IN INDIA BLIND > FAITH AND SUPERSTITION HAVE ALWAYS RULED AND CONCEPTS LIKE KAAL SARP > AND SADE SATHI PROBABLY WERE DESIGNED TO MINT MONEY OR FRIGHTEN > IGNORANT ILLITERATE PEOPLE.INDIA WITH ALL ITS SUPERSTITION IS A THIRD > WORLD COUNTRY WHERE 70 CRORE PEOPLE HAVE NO ACCESS TO BASIC FACILITIS > OF LIFE.HENCE NON SENSE LIKE KAAL SARP IS EASY TO USE HERE. > > SUDEEP > > > > Srinath Ram <srinath_atreya> wrote: > > , "Srinath Ram" > <srinath_atreya> > > wrote: > > || Jai Sadguru Dutta || > > > > > > Normally, persons afflicted with Kala sarpa dosh have to work very > > hard even to get small rewards. They are hardworkers and have to > face > > many difficulties in life. Well, there is none on this earth who > does > > not suffer. But here, we have to understand that we have to eat the > > fruits of our past actions ( Sanchita Karma ). > > > > > > Astrologically, when Rahu-Ketu conjuncts other planets or, in other > > words, the other planets are under the nodal influence of Rahu and > > Ketu, it is treated as Sagraha Sarpa Dosha. > > > > Kalasarpa Dosha is said to be caused when all the planets are > hemmed > > on one side between Rahu and Ketu. Depending upon the position of > > Rahu-Ketu and the planets, twelve different types of Kalasarpa > Dosha > > are said to exist. > > > > > > It would be highly inappropriate to jump into any conclusion > without > > a complete, thorough inspection of a person's horoscope. Hence I > > strongly advise you to consult a good astrologer. Many great > > personalities, who have performed wonderful deeds during their > > lifetime are said to have suffered from Kalasarpa Dosha. To name a > > few: Abraham Lincoln, Kitoor Rani Chennamma, Jhansirani Lakshmibai, > > Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, Emperor Nero, Chengiz Khan, Jesus Christ, > > Mussolini etc. Although all these great personalities achieved > great > > things in life, their end was terrible. The point to note here is > > that among the great personalities mentioned, five were killed. > > > > I have given a general remedy for persons with Naga dosh in message > > no 5022 > > > > A person is afflicted with Kala sarpa dosh or Naga dosh if he has > > killed snakes, destroyed their mounds, destroyed their eggs or > > troubled them in any way, knowingly or unknowingly, in his present > or > > previous births. > > > > NO PUJA, OR MANTRA WILL BE HELPFUL TO THEM, UNTIL THEY GET RID OF > THE > > SNAKE GOD'S CURSE. > > > > Kalasarpa Dosha is said to cause several difficulties during the > > course of one's life: unhappiness in the family, continuous loss > > in > > business, miserable married life, childlessness, ill health, skin > > diseases, trouble in eyes, ears and throat, poverty and financial > > difficulties, delay in marriage, improper development of body > organs, > > loss and litigations, striving very hard to progress in life, > always > > worried. People, who have built their houses on plots after > > demolishing the snake pits, are found to face ill health as long as > > they live in that house. > > > > A person who kills a serpent invites serious Dosha onto himself. > Such > > persons may often see cobras both in reality and in dreams. The > > effect of this particular dosha is very severe. > > > > The remedial measures suggested to overcome these doshas are SARPA- > > SAMSKARA similar to the Samaskara (ceremonies,last rites) done > after > > the death of a person, Nagaprathistha, Nagabali, Nagathambula, Naga > > Puthalika Vidhi, Navagraha Shanthi and Kalasarpa Shanthi depending > > upon the type of Dosha. These poojas have to be performed through > > people who are well versed in performing such Shanthis. > > > > Lord Subramanya (popularly known as Lord Muruga in Tamil Nadu and > > Lord Kartikeya in North India) who is widely worshipped as the > > serpent deity and as forgiver of all doshas connected with serpents > > normally called Naga Dosha,Sarpa Dosha and Kalasarpa Dosha. In > South > > India, especially in Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh, this Lord is > very > > widely worshiped in the serpent (naga) form. > > > > Lord Subramanya is called Sarpa Dosha Nivaraka (remedier). In the > > Southern part of India, almost in all temples and also under the > > peepal tree (aswatHa vrksha) along the road sides, Naga idols are > > installed on platforms. You can see such platforms built at the > > entrance of every village with different type of idols duly > installed > > on it. Each type of idol is earmarked as a remedy for a particular > > type of dosha or fulfilling a particular wish of the devotee. > > > > > > THE ABOVE SAID SHANTIS CAN BE PERFORMED IN YOUR HOUSE OR IN HOLY > > PLACES CONNECTED TO THE LORD LIKE: KUKKE SUBRAHMANYA (D.K. Dist, > > KARNATAKA), GHATI SUBRAHMANYA (near Bangalore) PALANI (TAMILNADU) > > ETC. > > > > THE AFFLICTED PERSON HIMSELF SHOULD PERFORM THE RITUAL UNDER THE > > GUIDANCE OF AN ABLE PRIEST. OTHERWISE THE RITUAL BECOMES FUTILE. > > > > > > , madhavi shah > <shah_madhavishah> > > wrote: > > > Dear Friends > > > > > > My daughter has kalyog sarp and she is going to sit in a > > competitive exam. Do the Kalyogsarp effect on her study and her > > success? > > > > > Please reply > > > > > > Madhavi Shah > > > > > > > > > > > > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE > > > > Messenger > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE > Messenger > > > Sponsor > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Whether India is rich or poor doesn't matter. Every country has his richest and poorest citizens living in it. What counts is: does the majority of citizens feel happy? Once they did a survey of all countries all over the world and guess what, India was one of the top countries where citizens were HAPPY. I think Thailand or Singapore or one of those countries was first! America was somewhere on the bottom of the list..... Yours, Dhira Krsna dasa, Jyotisha http://www.radhadesh.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Mr. Dhira Das: You hit the nail right on the target, happiness is what matters. I've been reading this dialouge about the greedy and money-hungry people of India, the corruption in India, etc. etc. Well, I agree people in India are money-hungry and the authorities are corrupt. But, who isn't money-hungry. I've never seen more money- hungry people than in the United States, this country was founded on the principle of pursuit of money. As to corruption, it is directly proportional to the the INNATE wealth of the nation, i.e. oil reserves, precious metal reserves, timber reserves, agricultural output, research and development in various fields. Well, there is NO other country in the world besides United States with more INNATE wealth, Australia and Canada may be distant runner-ups. So, it is natural that there is very little corruption in the US and there is so much corruption in India as India's INNATE wealth has already been depleted, first by the marauding savage muslim rulers, then by the Kings and Queens who transfered their wealth overseas and finally by the British (at least the British gave us Education, infrastructure and the British Common Law on which we built our present day India, an India who will soon be a super-power). What really matters is happiness and Mr. Dhira Dasa said it all in one short note. Despite the money-grabbing tendencies, the poverty, the corruptions, East Indians are one of the happiest people on the earth. To those who were critisizing India--When you are driving through miles and miles of shanty-town in Bombay, have you EVER seen persons/people that were unhappy--you see kids playing, women cooking, men at work and life at its most dynamic point in these shanty-towns. Were you ever looted or raped or violently mugged while you were amongst the poor people of India???? I or my family NEVER was. Ya, at the same time if you're travelling through the ghettos in various parts of United States (a country with sucide hot-lines), there is a high probability that you'd be robbed, raped or even killed. At times I regret leaving India and have made elaborate plans to return back which I hope one day will happen. Those of you who are critisizing India and Indians for the lack of wealth and Income, think twice. Mukund vedic astrology, "Dhira Krsna BCS" <Dhira.Krsna.BCS@p...> wrote: > Whether India is rich or poor doesn't matter. Every country has his > richest and poorest citizens living in it. What counts is: does the > majority of citizens feel happy? Once they did a survey of all countries > all over the world and guess what, India was one of the top countries > where citizens were HAPPY. I think Thailand or Singapore or one of those > countries was first! America was somewhere on the bottom of the list..... > > Yours, > Dhira Krsna dasa, > Jyotisha > http://www.radhadesh.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111> wrote: > finally by the British (at least the British gave us Education, > infrastructure and the British Common Law on which we built our > present day India, an India who will soon be a super-power). I apologize for posting a non-astrological issue but felt the need to do so because of Mr.Desai's comment.-sagar Mr.Desai: I don't think that the British gave India Education. Thats the funniest statement I ever heard. India has had many mathematicians, scientists, astronomers, philosophers etc. etc when the British were learning to read and write.. Have you not heard of Bhaskaracharya? In fact the British even stole the mathematics research of Ramanujan, who is one of the greatest mathematicians of the last century. To put it bluntly, when the ancestors of the British were learning to count with their fingers, Indian scholars were busy deriving astronomical formulae. Such was the education level of India. The reason they succeeded in "stealing" our money etc. was because of our own fault of fighting among ourselves. They were cunning and took advantage of the political situation in India. -Sagar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Dear Mukundji and Dhira Dasji, +1 a billion times! People who cribb about corruption in India, especially NRIs, are escapists. If they feel so passionately about corruption in India, they should stay there and try to help the situation. It is meaningless and sheer cowardice to shout about it in such public forums, before checking first as to what was your contribution to solve the problems. As far as the level of hunger for money is concerned, it is the highest in the western societies. As Mukundji says - America is built on the principles of Capitalism. Remember, until very recently, Nehruvian India was still a socialist society. So it is wrong to say that Indian society is the most money-minded society. However, what is wrong in desiring more wealth? Suriji...what did you leave India for, to live in Australia and Canada, if not to make more money? It is amazing to see hypocrisy of people who adore living in capitalistic societies such as North America and Western Europe but cannot stand to see Indians in India turning capitalistic. Those who think India is corrupt and polluted and money-hungry fail to understand that it is their oblivion that has brought this great country to where it is. They fail to see that it is the lack of sense of moral responsibility of our forefathers that has drove the country here. Yes, that is right! Our forefathers did not do their job right and as a result we are suffering. If we don't make it right, generations to come are going to have to suffer. Now, if you want to change things around here come back to India and be a valuable, productive member of this country. Try helping the system here. Be a high-bracket tax payer here (instead of in Canada or Australia) so that Indian government can spend your taxes towards infrastructure development. Do innovation here. Innovation not just in terms of technology, but also in business, government, and society. Nothing is going to change by just criticizing your homeland in front of others. Present generation Indians must withhold the urge to criticize our nation. I know, we all got this disgusting habit from our previous generations, who themselves had no clue about their own responsibilities as Indians. For this generation Indians - the choice is ours to make. We can either choose to emulate our previous generations and just sit around being unproductive Indians and cribb about the non-functional parts of our system OR we can choose to stay focused and work strategically and work good and thereby bring a change. As a sidenote - Before comparing India with North American or Western European countries understand one thing. These societies have enjoyed freedom and democracy for 100s of years unlike India. When we got freedom 56 years back, we had a huge baggage, leftover from the British and the Muslim rulers, and hostile countries such as Pakistan, China and later Bangladesh, to deal with. For those who keep comparing Indian progress with that of the Chinese, understand that latter does not have a cost of democracy to pay for. So obviously, growth is supposed to be faster in China than in India. Which is the better model? Only time can say that. But, the last thing you want to do as an Indian is complain about the country's problems in public forums without any action. Just saying - I love India - doesn't cut it. I am sorry to be politically incorrect in this post. Suriji, I did not mean to debase you, but rather debase your notion of India as a backward, corrupt and money-minded nation. Narasimhaji, I apologize deeply if you think this post was irrelevant. But I could not help myself after reading Suriji's post and hence, was compelled to reply. Namaste. Rageshwari. vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111> wrote: > Mr. Dhira Das: > > You hit the nail right on the target, happiness is what matters. I've > been reading this dialouge about the greedy and money-hungry people > of India, the corruption in India, etc. etc. > > Well, I agree people in India are money-hungry and the authorities > are corrupt. But, who isn't money-hungry. I've never seen more money- > hungry people than in the United States, this country was founded on > the principle of pursuit of money. > > As to corruption, it is directly proportional to the the INNATE > wealth of the nation, i.e. oil reserves, precious metal reserves, > timber reserves, agricultural output, research and development in > various fields. Well, there is NO other country in the world besides > United States with more INNATE wealth, Australia and Canada may be > distant runner-ups. > > So, it is natural that there is very little corruption in the US and > there is so much corruption in India as India's INNATE wealth has > already been depleted, first by the marauding savage muslim rulers, > then by the Kings and Queens who transfered their wealth overseas and > finally by the British (at least the British gave us Education, > infrastructure and the British Common Law on which we built our > present day India, an India who will soon be a super-power). > > What really matters is happiness and Mr. Dhira Dasa said it all in > one short note. Despite the money-grabbing tendencies, the poverty, > the corruptions, East Indians are one of the happiest people on the > earth. > > To those who were critisizing India--When you are driving through > miles and miles of shanty-town in Bombay, have you EVER seen > persons/people that were unhappy--you see kids playing, women > cooking, men at work and life at its most dynamic point in these > shanty-towns. Were you ever looted or raped or violently mugged while > you were amongst the poor people of India???? I or my family NEVER > was. > > Ya, at the same time if you're travelling through the ghettos in > various parts of United States (a country with sucide hot-lines), > there is a high probability that you'd be robbed, raped or even > killed. > > At times I regret leaving India and have made elaborate plans to > return back which I hope one day will happen. > > Those of you who are critisizing India and Indians for the lack of > wealth and Income, think twice. > > Mukund > > vedic astrology, "Dhira Krsna BCS" > <Dhira.Krsna.BCS@p...> wrote: > > Whether India is rich or poor doesn't matter. Every country has his > > richest and poorest citizens living in it. What counts is: does the > > majority of citizens feel happy? Once they did a survey of all > countries > > all over the world and guess what, India was one of the top > countries > > where citizens were HAPPY. I think Thailand or Singapore or one of > those > > countries was first! America was somewhere on the bottom of the > list..... > > > > Yours, > > Dhira Krsna dasa, > > Jyotisha > > http://www.radhadesh.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Dear Sagarji, You are darn right!!! When the British were still trying to figure out how to eat food, the Vedic Indians were evolving Mathematics. Nobody gave education to us. We're educated to begin with, in all the spheres - societal, mathematical, political, medical, literature, arts, et al. Where did we go wrong in becoming the contemporary leading power? I don't know the exact answer. It might be the stars. But I do know the period during which we, the Indians, started the process of turning into morons. It is so frustrating to see how could an advanced and evolved society such as Vedic India ever loose its competitive edge!! Namaste. Rageshwari. vedic astrology, "Sagar Chitnis" <sagar_chitnis> wrote: > vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111> > wrote: > > > finally by the British (at least the British gave us Education, > > infrastructure and the British Common Law on which we built our > > present day India, an India who will soon be a super-power). > > I apologize for posting a non-astrological issue but felt the need to > do so because of Mr.Desai's comment.-sagar > > > Mr.Desai: > > I don't think that the British gave India Education. Thats the > funniest statement I ever heard. > > India has had many mathematicians, scientists, astronomers, > philosophers etc. etc when the British were learning to read and > write.. Have you not heard of Bhaskaracharya? > > In fact the British even stole the mathematics research of Ramanujan, > who is one of the greatest mathematicians of the last century. > > To put it bluntly, when the ancestors of the British were learning to > count with their fingers, Indian > scholars were busy deriving astronomical formulae. > Such was the education level of India. > > The reason they succeeded in "stealing" our money etc. was because of > our own fault of fighting among ourselves. They were cunning and took > advantage of the political situation in India. > > -Sagar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 I agree that some of you are making a statement that US and other western countries were founded on basis of capitalism and India is based on socialism. I think there is a big WAS as the new India is slowly getting engulfed in the jaws of capitalism just like any of the western countries. Socialism as a concept is good in theory but fails in making things efficient. I personally agree that the promises of socialism are the ones we should all strive for. But how many of us have place for each other in our hearts. We as humans are susceptible to the evil qualities of hate, greed, envy and more. Eventually as things have already started changing in our country, capitalism will find its roots there too. In a recent visit to India I have seen atleast in bug cities people do not have the time for each other. Families which were once joint have started becoming nuclear. Respect for elders is soon vanishing as can be seen from the increasing number of old age homes that are coming up. This is not our Sanskriti. But we are falling prey to external temptations and making that to be our reality. Humans are all born with natural qualities of love and feelings. Society conditions us to behave differently. There will be a time that all those qualities in India will also be lost and we will find that people are no longer happy as they will catch on to the wind blown by capitalism. Initially its all for the good of mankind, but then we some day will start thinking what are we running for and is this our real aim in life. This is a natural cycle, we are all going thru it like everyone else does. No one is wrong in this. Not America not India. Also, people who say that NRIs are escapists are wrong. Its not that if we have left our country we have no right to say anything about it. We should not stay far from reality and have the guts to say WRONG is WRONG. The fact is that corruption is high in India. It was not like that in 50s/60s/70s The 80s and 90s saw a big rise in it. Hopefully as interactions with the West grow we will be able to see improvement in that area. In order to prosper, we need to restore what we have lost and hold on to what we have. -chakroorageshwari75 <rageshwari75 > wrote: Dear Mukundji and Dhira Dasji,+1 a billion times!People who cribb about corruption in India, especially NRIs, are escapists. If they feel so passionately about corruption in India, they should stay there and try to help the situation. It is meaningless and sheer cowardice to shout about it in such public forums, before checking first as to what was your contribution to solve the problems.As far as the level of hunger for money is concerned, it is the highest in the western societies. As Mukundji says - America is built on the principles of Capitalism. Remember, until very recently, Nehruvian India was still a socialist society. So it is wrong to say that Indian society is the most money-minded society. However, what is wrong in desiring more wealth? Suriji...what did you leave India for, to live in Australia and Canada, if not to make more money? It is amazing to see hypocrisy of people who adore living in capitalistic societies such as North America and Western Europe but cannot stand to see Indians in India turning capitalistic. Those who think India is corrupt and polluted and money-hungry fail to understand that it is their oblivion that has brought this great country to where it is. They fail to see that it is the lack of sense of moral responsibility of our forefathers that has drove the country here. Yes, that is right! Our forefathers did not do their job right and as a result we are suffering. If we don't make it right, generations to come are going to have to suffer. Now, if you want to change things around here come back to India and be a valuable, productive member of this country. Try helping the system here. Be a high-bracket tax payer here (instead of in Canada or Australia) so that Indian government can spend your taxes towards infrastructure development. Do innovation here. Innovation not just in terms of technology, but also in business, government, and society. Nothing is going to change by just criticizing your homeland in front of others. Present generation Indians must withhold the urge to criticize our nation. I know, we all got this disgusting habit from our previous generations, who themselves had no clue about their own responsibilities as Indians. For this generation Indians - the choice is ours to make. We can either choose to emulate our previous generations and just sit around being unproductive Indians and cribb about the non-functional parts of our system OR we can choose to stay focused and work strategically and work good and thereby bring a change.As a sidenote -Before comparing India with North American or Western European countries understand one thing. These societies have enjoyed freedom and democracy for 100s of years unlike India. When we got freedom 56 years back, we had a huge baggage, leftover from the British and the Muslim rulers, and hostile countries such as Pakistan, China and later Bangladesh, to deal with.For those who keep comparing Indian progress with that of the Chinese, understand that latter does not have a cost of democracy to pay for. So obviously, growth is supposed to be faster in China than in India. Which is the better model? Only time can say that. But, the last thing you want to do as an Indian is complain about the country's problems in public forums without any action. Just saying - I love India - doesn't cut it.I am sorry to be politically incorrect in this post. Suriji, I did not mean to debase you, but rather debase your notion of India as a backward, corrupt and money-minded nation.Narasimhaji, I apologize deeply if you think this post was irrelevant. But I could not help myself after reading Suriji's post and hence, was compelled to reply.Namaste.Rageshwari.--- In vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111> wrote:> Mr. Dhira Das:> > You hit the nail right on the target, happiness is what matters. I've > been reading this dialouge about the greedy and money-hungry people > of India, the corruption in India, etc. etc.> > Well, I agree people in India are money-hungry and the authorities > are corrupt. But, who isn't money-hungry. I've never seen more money-> hungry people than in the United States, this country was founded on > the principle of pursuit of money.> > As to corruption, it is directly proportional to the the INNATE > wealth of the nation, i.e. oil reserves, precious metal reserves, > timber reserves, agricultural output, research and development in > various fields. Well, there is NO other country in the world besides > United States with more INNATE wealth, Australia and Canada may be > distant runner-ups. > > So, it is natural that there is very little corruption in the US and > there is so much corruption in India as India's INNATE wealth has > already been depleted, first by the marauding savage muslim rulers, > then by the Kings and Queens who transfered their wealth overseas and > finally by the British (at least the British gave us Education, > infrastructure and the British Common Law on which we built our > present day India, an India who will soon be a super-power).> > What really matters is happiness and Mr. Dhira Dasa said it all in > one short note. Despite the money-grabbing tendencies, the poverty, > the corruptions, East Indians are one of the happiest people on the > earth.> > To those who were critisizing India--When you are driving through > miles and miles of shanty-town in Bombay, have you EVER seen > persons/people that were unhappy--you see kids playing, women > cooking, men at work and life at its most dynamic point in these > shanty-towns. Were you ever looted or raped or violently mugged while > you were amongst the poor people of India???? I or my family NEVER > was. > > Ya, at the same time if you're travelling through the ghettos in > various parts of United States (a country with sucide hot-lines), > there is a high probability that you'd be robbed, raped or even > killed. > > At times I regret leaving India and have made elaborate plans to > return back which I hope one day will happen.> > Those of you who are critisizing India and Indians for the lack of > wealth and Income, think twice. > > Mukund> > vedic astrology, "Dhira Krsna BCS" > <Dhira.Krsna.BCS@p...> wrote:> > Whether India is rich or poor doesn't matter. Every country has his> > richest and poorest citizens living in it. What counts is: does the> > majority of citizens feel happy? Once they did a survey of all > countries> > all over the world and guess what, India was one of the top > countries> > where citizens were HAPPY. I think Thailand or Singapore or one of > those> > countries was first! America was somewhere on the bottom of the > list.....> > > > Yours,> > Dhira Krsna dasa,> > Jyotisha> > http://www.radhadesh.comArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Nature doesnot do anything uselessly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Hello Sagar, Rageshwari: It is a known and accepted fact that India has a 5,000 year old civilization and was highly advanced in architecture, applied mathematics and science. However, all of this knowlege is of no use if it can't be put to use for generation of wealth for the people of India. The TRUTH is that whatever LITTLE wealth (GDP, GNP) India as a collecion of small kingdoms was producing was flowing into the Royal treasury and finally overseas. The ancient knowledge did NOTHING for the well-being and the upliftment of the average Indian. The British brought with them English and an idea about diffusion of literacy and the implemented this idea. My family is a decendant of Bajirao Peshwa and our role was to collect tax on the lands owned by the Peshwas ruling from Pune. My Grandpa was born into this family and he would have and his later generations would have continued the tax collection role for several more generations had the British not arrived in India. My Grandpa was able to attend a British run college in Bombay and get his BA and later his LLB and thereafter sent all his 5 kids to colleges founded by the British and EVERYONE in my family prospered due to the "diffusion of literacy" created by the British. I'm sure your family as well as Rageswari's prospered due to the arrival of British in India. On the other hand, if the British had not arrived in India, my father would have been a clerk for some King's court and I'd be grazing the Royal cows rather than sitting here commuinacting on intenet VIA the COMMON medium of English language (which as well was given to us by the British). Sagar, the British DID do a LOT of good for India and we shouldn't forget that or deny that. I feel the independence was grossly pre- mature, had the British stayed for 20 more years, India would have been like Hong Kong--a country of unimginable wealth generated purely through commerce. Well, India could have been better that Hong Kong or Singapore as India possesses tremendous intellectual wealth as well as natural resource. Because the British left pre-maturely, India fell into the hands of the Nehru family who over a span of two generations runied India and its potential. Look at BJP now, India in some ways feels like a first world country, that is because it is now truly becoming a government of the people, by the people rather than a personal Kingdom of the Nehru family. Well, I can go on and on, but enough for now. Mukund vedic astrology, "Sagar Chitnis" <sagar_chitnis> wrote: > vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111> > wrote: > > > finally by the British (at least the British gave us Education, > > infrastructure and the British Common Law on which we built our > > present day India, an India who will soon be a super-power). > > I apologize for posting a non-astrological issue but felt the need to > do so because of Mr.Desai's comment.-sagar > > > Mr.Desai: > > I don't think that the British gave India Education. Thats the > funniest statement I ever heard. > > India has had many mathematicians, scientists, astronomers, > philosophers etc. etc when the British were learning to read and > write.. Have you not heard of Bhaskaracharya? > > In fact the British even stole the mathematics research of Ramanujan, > who is one of the greatest mathematicians of the last century. > > To put it bluntly, when the ancestors of the British were learning to > count with their fingers, Indian > scholars were busy deriving astronomical formulae. > Such was the education level of India. > > The reason they succeeded in "stealing" our money etc. was because of > our own fault of fighting among ourselves. They were cunning and took > advantage of the political situation in India. > > -Sagar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Mukund, I beg to differ on how much "good" the British did for India and Indians. As such, their prime motive was to profit from India. So they did absolutely whatever they could in order to increase their profits in India. Like building the railroads, etc. I don't deny that these things eventually did work to our advantage. However, just because someone taught you how to speak English, while their robbed your home at gun point doesn't make them any good. It's a Stockholm Syndrome some people develop. All I am saying is, no captor however generous is worthy of praises. They did something terrible. Perhaps, India may not have been India. However, we still would have evolved along with the rest of the world (even with some people choosing to rear cows or goats). But I must say that I am happier to be part of the whole that is India than belong to any one obscure princely state. Nonetheless, I have no one to thank for this but my fellow Indians then and now for having the resolve to make India - India. - Jai - "monmuk111" <monmuk111 <vedic astrology> Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:37 AM [vedic astrology] Re: KAL SARP : IS NOT RELEVANT > Hello Sagar, Rageshwari: > > It is a known and accepted fact that India has a 5,000 year old > civilization and was highly advanced in architecture, applied > mathematics and science. > > However, all of this knowlege is of no use if it can't be put to use > for generation of wealth for the people of India. > > The TRUTH is that whatever LITTLE wealth (GDP, GNP) India as a > collecion of small kingdoms was producing was flowing into the Royal > treasury and finally overseas. > > The ancient knowledge did NOTHING for the well-being and the > upliftment of the average Indian. > > The British brought with them English and an idea about diffusion of > literacy and the implemented this idea. My family is a decendant of > Bajirao Peshwa and our role was to collect tax on the lands owned by > the Peshwas ruling from Pune. My Grandpa was born into this family > and he would have and his later generations would have continued the > tax collection role for several more generations had the British not > arrived in India. > > My Grandpa was able to attend a British run college in Bombay and get > his BA and later his LLB and thereafter sent all his 5 kids to > colleges founded by the British and EVERYONE in my family prospered > due to the "diffusion of literacy" created by the British. > > I'm sure your family as well as Rageswari's prospered due to the > arrival of British in India. On the other hand, if the British had > not arrived in India, my father would have been a clerk for some > King's court and I'd be grazing the Royal cows rather than sitting > here commuinacting on intenet VIA the COMMON medium of English > language (which as well was given to us by the British). > > Sagar, the British DID do a LOT of good for India and we shouldn't > forget that or deny that. I feel the independence was grossly pre- > mature, had the British stayed for 20 more years, India would have > been like Hong Kong--a country of unimginable wealth generated purely > through commerce. Well, India could have been better that Hong Kong > or Singapore as India possesses tremendous intellectual wealth as > well as natural resource. > > Because the British left pre-maturely, India fell into the hands of > the Nehru family who over a span of two generations runied India and > its potential. Look at BJP now, India in some ways feels like a first > world country, that is because it is now truly becoming a government > of the people, by the people rather than a personal Kingdom of the > Nehru family. > > Well, I can go on and on, but enough for now. > > Mukund > > vedic astrology, "Sagar Chitnis" > <sagar_chitnis> wrote: > > vedic astrology, "monmuk111" > <monmuk111> > > wrote: > > > > > finally by the British (at least the British gave us Education, > > > infrastructure and the British Common Law on which we built our > > > present day India, an India who will soon be a super-power). > > > > I apologize for posting a non-astrological issue but felt the need > to > > do so because of Mr.Desai's comment.-sagar > > > > > > Mr.Desai: > > > > I don't think that the British gave India Education. Thats the > > funniest statement I ever heard. > > > > India has had many mathematicians, scientists, astronomers, > > philosophers etc. etc when the British were learning to read and > > write.. Have you not heard of Bhaskaracharya? > > > > In fact the British even stole the mathematics research of > Ramanujan, > > who is one of the greatest mathematicians of the last century. > > > > To put it bluntly, when the ancestors of the British were learning > to > > count with their fingers, Indian > > scholars were busy deriving astronomical formulae. > > Such was the education level of India. > > > > The reason they succeeded in "stealing" our money etc. was because > of > > our own fault of fighting among ourselves. They were cunning and > took > > advantage of the political situation in India. > > > > -Sagar > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Your use of is subject to > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Mukund, I beg to differ on how much "good" the British did for India and Indians. As such, their prime motive was to profit from India. So they did absolutely whatever they could in order to increase their profits in India. Like building the railroads, etc. I don't deny that these things eventually did work to our advantage. However, just because someone taught you how to speak English, while their robbed your home at gun point doesn't make them any good. It's a Stockholm Syndrome some people develop. All I am saying is, no captor however generous is worthy of praises. They did something terrible. Perhaps, India may not have been India. However, we still would have evolved along with the rest of the world (even with some people choosing to rear cows or goats). But I must say that I am happier to be part of the whole that is India than belong to any one obscure princely state. Nonetheless, I have no one to thank for this but my fellow Indians then and now for having the resolve to make India - India. - Jai - "monmuk111" <monmuk111 <vedic astrology> Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:37 AM [vedic astrology] Re: KAL SARP : IS NOT RELEVANT > Hello Sagar, Rageshwari: > > It is a known and accepted fact that India has a 5,000 year old > civilization and was highly advanced in architecture, applied > mathematics and science. > > However, all of this knowlege is of no use if it can't be put to use > for generation of wealth for the people of India. > > The TRUTH is that whatever LITTLE wealth (GDP, GNP) India as a > collecion of small kingdoms was producing was flowing into the Royal > treasury and finally overseas. > > The ancient knowledge did NOTHING for the well-being and the > upliftment of the average Indian. > > The British brought with them English and an idea about diffusion of > literacy and the implemented this idea. My family is a decendant of > Bajirao Peshwa and our role was to collect tax on the lands owned by > the Peshwas ruling from Pune. My Grandpa was born into this family > and he would have and his later generations would have continued the > tax collection role for several more generations had the British not > arrived in India. > > My Grandpa was able to attend a British run college in Bombay and get > his BA and later his LLB and thereafter sent all his 5 kids to > colleges founded by the British and EVERYONE in my family prospered > due to the "diffusion of literacy" created by the British. > > I'm sure your family as well as Rageswari's prospered due to the > arrival of British in India. On the other hand, if the British had > not arrived in India, my father would have been a clerk for some > King's court and I'd be grazing the Royal cows rather than sitting > here commuinacting on intenet VIA the COMMON medium of English > language (which as well was given to us by the British). > > Sagar, the British DID do a LOT of good for India and we shouldn't > forget that or deny that. I feel the independence was grossly pre- > mature, had the British stayed for 20 more years, India would have > been like Hong Kong--a country of unimginable wealth generated purely > through commerce. Well, India could have been better that Hong Kong > or Singapore as India possesses tremendous intellectual wealth as > well as natural resource. > > Because the British left pre-maturely, India fell into the hands of > the Nehru family who over a span of two generations runied India and > its potential. Look at BJP now, India in some ways feels like a first > world country, that is because it is now truly becoming a government > of the people, by the people rather than a personal Kingdom of the > Nehru family. > > Well, I can go on and on, but enough for now. > > Mukund > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Hello Jai: I agree with you that profit and proliferation of British goods was the prime motive of the British. I strongly disagree with you that they did this on a gun-point. The British were COLONIZERS and NOT CONQUERERS. The biggest and the most valuable contribution of the British to us Indians is the full and final end they brought about to the Muslim Kings. Had the Muslim kings continued for 50 more years, my name would have been Mohammed instead of Mukund and your name would be Jamal instead of Jai. We indigenious Indians would have lost our culture and our religion. The British stayed away from converting the Hindus and stayed out of our culture as well. Ya, some of the atristocratic Indians did began to behave like the British, but that was self-innoculation of the British values rather than a forced innoculation. Worst, the British saved us from the Spanish. The Spaniards set out in search of India and ended up in the Americas and now look at the cultural, religious and outright RAPE they committed in South America and some parts of North America. They converted an ENTIRE continent and savagely looted the natural wealth of the Incas and the indigenious people. They resorted to wholescale slaughter of the indigenious people of South America, the Spaniards are second only to the savage Muslims marauderer from the Middle-East. THE SPANIARDS NEVER ENTERED INDIA DUE TO THE BRITISH PRESENCE. Ya, they entered Phillpines and now everyone in that country is Catholic and have Biblical/Spanish names.--India would have suffered the same fate. Amongst all the foreigners who came to India either as conquerers or religious converters or colonizers, the British were the most HUMANE. The atrocities committed by the British are almost non-existent in comparison to the atrocities committed by the Savage Muslim Conquerers and the Portugese who converted an entire section of India via coercion. Jai, you mention one very good thing, that is, every nation evolve sooner or later and India would have evolved too without the British. Ya, I agree with you on this, but India would have evolved like the continent of Africa--one people, many nations and a perpetual civil war. At least, we have ONE intact nation. Segregation of East Pakistan and West Pakistan was the biggest mistake committed by the British and by Gandhi. The British and the influential India leaders should never have bowed to the tantrums of greedy Jinnah. Well Jai, I'm not British, I'm not British educated, I'm just an East- Indian who doesn't follow the fashion of slamming the former colonizers while ignoring the GOOD they did for India. Have you ever heard about an East-Indian woman raped by a British soilder? Never. However, the marauding Muslim armies treated the Hindu women like their personal property and took them at will without prosecution or fear of prosecution. The Portugese did the same in Goa, Diu, Daman--I still see light skinned, blue-eyed people in Goa, Diu and Daman where the indegineous people are generally dark- skinned and dark-eyed. Well, enough for now. Hope no-one gets mad at me as this is not astrology related. In a round about way it is, had the British not kicked out the Muslims, the practice of Astrology would have been banned as it is considered un-Islamic and we wouldn't be discussing Vedic Astrology today. Regards, Mukund vedic astrology, "JDB" <jbalagop> wrote: > Mukund, > > I beg to differ on how much "good" the British did for India and Indians. As > such, their prime motive was to profit > from India. So they did absolutely whatever they could in order to increase > their profits in India. Like building > the railroads, etc. I don't deny that these things eventually did work to > our advantage. However, just because > someone taught you how to speak English, while their robbed your home at > gun point doesn't make them any good. > It's a Stockholm Syndrome some people develop. > > All I am saying is, no captor however generous is worthy of praises. They > did something terrible. Perhaps, India may > not have been India. However, we still would have evolved along with the > rest of the world (even with some people > choosing to rear cows or goats). But I must say that I am happier to be > part of the whole that is India than belong to any one obscure princely > state. Nonetheless, I have no one to thank for this but my fellow Indians > then and now for having the resolve to make India - India. > > - Jai > > - > "monmuk111" <monmuk111> > <vedic astrology> > Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:37 AM > [vedic astrology] Re: KAL SARP : IS NOT RELEVANT > > > > Hello Sagar, Rageshwari: > > > > It is a known and accepted fact that India has a 5,000 year old > > civilization and was highly advanced in architecture, applied > > mathematics and science. > > > > However, all of this knowlege is of no use if it can't be put to use > > for generation of wealth for the people of India. > > > > The TRUTH is that whatever LITTLE wealth (GDP, GNP) India as a > > collecion of small kingdoms was producing was flowing into the Royal > > treasury and finally overseas. > > > > The ancient knowledge did NOTHING for the well-being and the > > upliftment of the average Indian. > > > > The British brought with them English and an idea about diffusion of > > literacy and the implemented this idea. My family is a decendant of > > Bajirao Peshwa and our role was to collect tax on the lands owned by > > the Peshwas ruling from Pune. My Grandpa was born into this family > > and he would have and his later generations would have continued the > > tax collection role for several more generations had the British not > > arrived in India. > > > > My Grandpa was able to attend a British run college in Bombay and get > > his BA and later his LLB and thereafter sent all his 5 kids to > > colleges founded by the British and EVERYONE in my family prospered > > due to the "diffusion of literacy" created by the British. > > > > I'm sure your family as well as Rageswari's prospered due to the > > arrival of British in India. On the other hand, if the British had > > not arrived in India, my father would have been a clerk for some > > King's court and I'd be grazing the Royal cows rather than sitting > > here commuinacting on intenet VIA the COMMON medium of English > > language (which as well was given to us by the British). > > > > Sagar, the British DID do a LOT of good for India and we shouldn't > > forget that or deny that. I feel the independence was grossly pre- > > mature, had the British stayed for 20 more years, India would have > > been like Hong Kong--a country of unimginable wealth generated purely > > through commerce. Well, India could have been better that Hong Kong > > or Singapore as India possesses tremendous intellectual wealth as > > well as natural resource. > > > > Because the British left pre-maturely, India fell into the hands of > > the Nehru family who over a span of two generations runied India and > > its potential. Look at BJP now, India in some ways feels like a first > > world country, that is because it is now truly becoming a government > > of the people, by the people rather than a personal Kingdom of the > > Nehru family. > > > > Well, I can go on and on, but enough for now. > > > > Mukund > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Dear Jai-ji, Very well said! Absolutely in agreement. Namaste. Rageshwari. vedic astrology, "JDB" <jbalagop> wrote: > Mukund, > > I beg to differ on how much "good" the British did for India and Indians. As > such, their prime motive was to profit > from India. So they did absolutely whatever they could in order to increase > their profits in India. Like building > the railroads, etc. I don't deny that these things eventually did work to > our advantage. However, just because > someone taught you how to speak English, while their robbed your home at > gun point doesn't make them any good. > It's a Stockholm Syndrome some people develop. > > All I am saying is, no captor however generous is worthy of praises. They > did something terrible. Perhaps, India may > not have been India. However, we still would have evolved along with the > rest of the world (even with some people > choosing to rear cows or goats). But I must say that I am happier to be > part of the whole that is India than belong to any one obscure princely > state. Nonetheless, I have no one to thank for this but my fellow Indians > then and now for having the resolve to make India - India. > > - Jai > > - > "monmuk111" <monmuk111> > <vedic astrology> > Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:37 AM > [vedic astrology] Re: KAL SARP : IS NOT RELEVANT > > > > Hello Sagar, Rageshwari: > > > > It is a known and accepted fact that India has a 5,000 year old > > civilization and was highly advanced in architecture, applied > > mathematics and science. > > > > However, all of this knowlege is of no use if it can't be put to use > > for generation of wealth for the people of India. > > > > The TRUTH is that whatever LITTLE wealth (GDP, GNP) India as a > > collecion of small kingdoms was producing was flowing into the Royal > > treasury and finally overseas. > > > > The ancient knowledge did NOTHING for the well-being and the > > upliftment of the average Indian. > > > > The British brought with them English and an idea about diffusion of > > literacy and the implemented this idea. My family is a decendant of > > Bajirao Peshwa and our role was to collect tax on the lands owned by > > the Peshwas ruling from Pune. My Grandpa was born into this family > > and he would have and his later generations would have continued the > > tax collection role for several more generations had the British not > > arrived in India. > > > > My Grandpa was able to attend a British run college in Bombay and get > > his BA and later his LLB and thereafter sent all his 5 kids to > > colleges founded by the British and EVERYONE in my family prospered > > due to the "diffusion of literacy" created by the British. > > > > I'm sure your family as well as Rageswari's prospered due to the > > arrival of British in India. On the other hand, if the British had > > not arrived in India, my father would have been a clerk for some > > King's court and I'd be grazing the Royal cows rather than sitting > > here commuinacting on intenet VIA the COMMON medium of English > > language (which as well was given to us by the British). > > > > Sagar, the British DID do a LOT of good for India and we shouldn't > > forget that or deny that. I feel the independence was grossly pre- > > mature, had the British stayed for 20 more years, India would have > > been like Hong Kong--a country of unimginable wealth generated purely > > through commerce. Well, India could have been better that Hong Kong > > or Singapore as India possesses tremendous intellectual wealth as > > well as natural resource. > > > > Because the British left pre-maturely, India fell into the hands of > > the Nehru family who over a span of two generations runied India and > > its potential. Look at BJP now, India in some ways feels like a first > > world country, that is because it is now truly becoming a government > > of the people, by the people rather than a personal Kingdom of the > > Nehru family. > > > > Well, I can go on and on, but enough for now. > > > > Mukund > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Dear Mukundji, I 100% agree with you about the savage muslim rulers and the Spaniards; and probably you're right that the British did not focus on raping our women or enforcing religious conversions. But they still loot our country. They looted India and her people of self- confidence (I still have the images of Brits making poor Indians lick their boots in my mind). They stripped our self-confidence to an extent that even today an average Indian sees white skin and starts thinking they have to be better, that everything that is theirs - culture, technology, society, language, etiquettes, et al - is better. These, IMHO, is enough for me to hate the English colonizers. The question that you are trying to answer is probably - who looted India the most? However, regardless of the answer to that question, the fact that both of them enslaved us still remains the same. And hence it is natural for patriotic Indians to have a feeling of hatred for both. On a different note, I wanted to address your argument about Brits developing railroad infrastructure, et al. Just so that we are clear, Brits did not develop it for Indians, they developed it for transporting their pillaged Indian goods from various parts of the country to the sea ports so that they could be exported to mainland Britain. Namaste. Rageshwari. vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111> wrote: > Hello Jai: > > I agree with you that profit and proliferation of British goods was > the prime motive of the British. > > I strongly disagree with you that they did this on a gun-point. The > British were COLONIZERS and NOT CONQUERERS. The biggest and the most > valuable contribution of the British to us Indians is the full and > final end they brought about to the Muslim Kings. > > Had the Muslim kings continued for 50 more years, my name would have > been Mohammed instead of Mukund and your name would be Jamal instead > of Jai. We indigenious Indians would have lost our culture and our > religion. > > The British stayed away from converting the Hindus and stayed out of > our culture as well. Ya, some of the atristocratic Indians did began > to behave like the British, but that was self-innoculation of the > British values rather than a forced innoculation. > > Worst, the British saved us from the Spanish. The Spaniards set out > in search of India and ended up in the Americas and now look at the > cultural, religious and outright RAPE they committed in South America > and some parts of North America. They converted an ENTIRE continent > and savagely looted the natural wealth of the Incas and the > indigenious people. They resorted to wholescale slaughter of the > indigenious people of South America, the Spaniards are second only to > the savage Muslims marauderer from the Middle-East. THE SPANIARDS > NEVER ENTERED INDIA DUE TO THE BRITISH PRESENCE. Ya, they entered > Phillpines and now everyone in that country is Catholic and have > Biblical/Spanish names.--India would have suffered the same fate. > > Amongst all the foreigners who came to India either as conquerers or > religious converters or colonizers, the British were the most HUMANE. > > The atrocities committed by the British are almost non-existent in > comparison to the atrocities committed by the Savage Muslim > Conquerers and the Portugese who converted an entire section of India > via coercion. > > Jai, you mention one very good thing, that is, every nation evolve > sooner or later and India would have evolved too without the British. > Ya, I agree with you on this, but India would have evolved like the > continent of Africa--one people, many nations and a perpetual civil > war. At least, we have ONE intact nation. Segregation of East > Pakistan and West Pakistan was the biggest mistake committed by the > British and by Gandhi. The British and the influential India leaders > should never have bowed to the tantrums of greedy Jinnah. > > Well Jai, I'm not British, I'm not British educated, I'm just an East- > Indian who doesn't follow the fashion of slamming the former > colonizers while ignoring the GOOD they did for India. > > Have you ever heard about an East-Indian woman raped by a British > soilder? Never. However, the marauding Muslim armies treated the > Hindu women like their personal property and took them at will > without prosecution or fear of prosecution. The Portugese did the > same in Goa, Diu, Daman--I still see light skinned, blue-eyed people > in Goa, Diu and Daman where the indegineous people are generally dark- > skinned and dark-eyed. > > Well, enough for now. Hope no-one gets mad at me as this is not > astrology related. In a round about way it is, had the British not > kicked out the Muslims, the practice of Astrology would have been > banned as it is considered un-Islamic and we wouldn't be discussing > Vedic Astrology today. > > Regards, > Mukund > > vedic astrology, "JDB" <jbalagop> wrote: > > Mukund, > > > > I beg to differ on how much "good" the British did for India and > Indians. As > > such, their prime motive was to profit > > from India. So they did absolutely whatever they could in order to > increase > > their profits in India. Like building > > the railroads, etc. I don't deny that these things eventually did > work to > > our advantage. However, just because > > someone taught you how to speak English, while their robbed your > home at > > gun point doesn't make them any good. > > It's a Stockholm Syndrome some people develop. > > > > All I am saying is, no captor however generous is worthy of > praises. They > > did something terrible. Perhaps, India may > > not have been India. However, we still would have evolved along > with the > > rest of the world (even with some people > > choosing to rear cows or goats). But I must say that I am happier > to be > > part of the whole that is India than belong to any one obscure > princely > > state. Nonetheless, I have no one to thank for this but my fellow > Indians > > then and now for having the resolve to make India - India. > > > > - Jai > > > > - > > "monmuk111" <monmuk111> > > <vedic astrology> > > Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:37 AM > > [vedic astrology] Re: KAL SARP : IS NOT RELEVANT > > > > > > > Hello Sagar, Rageshwari: > > > > > > It is a known and accepted fact that India has a 5,000 year old > > > civilization and was highly advanced in architecture, applied > > > mathematics and science. > > > > > > However, all of this knowlege is of no use if it can't be put to > use > > > for generation of wealth for the people of India. > > > > > > The TRUTH is that whatever LITTLE wealth (GDP, GNP) India as a > > > collecion of small kingdoms was producing was flowing into the > Royal > > > treasury and finally overseas. > > > > > > The ancient knowledge did NOTHING for the well-being and the > > > upliftment of the average Indian. > > > > > > The British brought with them English and an idea about diffusion > of > > > literacy and the implemented this idea. My family is a decendant > of > > > Bajirao Peshwa and our role was to collect tax on the lands owned > by > > > the Peshwas ruling from Pune. My Grandpa was born into this family > > > and he would have and his later generations would have continued > the > > > tax collection role for several more generations had the British > not > > > arrived in India. > > > > > > My Grandpa was able to attend a British run college in Bombay and > get > > > his BA and later his LLB and thereafter sent all his 5 kids to > > > colleges founded by the British and EVERYONE in my family > prospered > > > due to the "diffusion of literacy" created by the British. > > > > > > I'm sure your family as well as Rageswari's prospered due to the > > > arrival of British in India. On the other hand, if the British had > > > not arrived in India, my father would have been a clerk for some > > > King's court and I'd be grazing the Royal cows rather than sitting > > > here commuinacting on intenet VIA the COMMON medium of English > > > language (which as well was given to us by the British). > > > > > > Sagar, the British DID do a LOT of good for India and we shouldn't > > > forget that or deny that. I feel the independence was grossly pre- > > > mature, had the British stayed for 20 more years, India would have > > > been like Hong Kong--a country of unimginable wealth generated > purely > > > through commerce. Well, India could have been better that Hong > Kong > > > or Singapore as India possesses tremendous intellectual wealth as > > > well as natural resource. > > > > > > Because the British left pre-maturely, India fell into the hands > of > > > the Nehru family who over a span of two generations runied India > and > > > its potential. Look at BJP now, India in some ways feels like a > first > > > world country, that is because it is now truly becoming a > government > > > of the people, by the people rather than a personal Kingdom of the > > > Nehru family. > > > > > > Well, I can go on and on, but enough for now. > > > > > > Mukund > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2003 Report Share Posted August 21, 2003 Yes. Don't forget those signs: "Dogs and Indians not allowed" My father remembers those very well. y'know, the looting of a civilization (yes, Rageshwari) is not just material. it can also be a looting of the soul. who's to say what's worse? Mukund I agree with you that maybe India gained her freedom too early, but who are we to predict what could have happened? what could have happened if the INA had not failed? if the Brits had given in to the Portuguese and the French long ago? if 1857 had been a success? if the AXIS had won WWII? one never knows. one just does the best they can with what they have. so... the question is... are we doing that? I seriously doubt it. rani. vedic astrology, "rageshwari75" <rageshwari75> wrote: > Dear Mukundji, > > I 100% agree with you about the savage muslim rulers and the > Spaniards; and probably you're right that the British did not focus > on raping our women or enforcing religious conversions. But they > still loot our country. They looted India and her people of self- > confidence (I still have the images of Brits making poor Indians lick > their boots in my mind). They stripped our self-confidence to an > extent that even today an average Indian sees white skin and starts > thinking they have to be better, that everything that is theirs - > culture, technology, society, language, etiquettes, et al - is > better. > > These, IMHO, is enough for me to hate the English colonizers. The > question that you are trying to answer is probably - who looted India > the most? However, regardless of the answer to that question, the > fact that both of them enslaved us still remains the same. And hence > it is natural for patriotic Indians to have a feeling of hatred for > both. > > On a different note, I wanted to address your argument about Brits > developing railroad infrastructure, et al. Just so that we are clear, > Brits did not develop it for Indians, they developed it for > transporting their pillaged Indian goods from various parts of the > country to the sea ports so that they could be exported to mainland > Britain. > > Namaste. > > Rageshwari. > > vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111> > wrote: > > Hello Jai: > > > > I agree with you that profit and proliferation of British goods was > > the prime motive of the British. > > > > I strongly disagree with you that they did this on a gun-point. The > > British were COLONIZERS and NOT CONQUERERS. The biggest and the > most > > valuable contribution of the British to us Indians is the full and > > final end they brought about to the Muslim Kings. > > > > Had the Muslim kings continued for 50 more years, my name would > have > > been Mohammed instead of Mukund and your name would be Jamal > instead > > of Jai. We indigenious Indians would have lost our culture and our > > religion. > > > > The British stayed away from converting the Hindus and stayed out > of > > our culture as well. Ya, some of the atristocratic Indians did > began > > to behave like the British, but that was self-innoculation of the > > British values rather than a forced innoculation. > > > > Worst, the British saved us from the Spanish. The Spaniards set out > > in search of India and ended up in the Americas and now look at the > > cultural, religious and outright RAPE they committed in South > America > > and some parts of North America. They converted an ENTIRE continent > > and savagely looted the natural wealth of the Incas and the > > indigenious people. They resorted to wholescale slaughter of the > > indigenious people of South America, the Spaniards are second only > to > > the savage Muslims marauderer from the Middle-East. THE SPANIARDS > > NEVER ENTERED INDIA DUE TO THE BRITISH PRESENCE. Ya, they entered > > Phillpines and now everyone in that country is Catholic and have > > Biblical/Spanish names.--India would have suffered the same fate. > > > > Amongst all the foreigners who came to India either as conquerers > or > > religious converters or colonizers, the British were the most > HUMANE. > > > > The atrocities committed by the British are almost non-existent in > > comparison to the atrocities committed by the Savage Muslim > > Conquerers and the Portugese who converted an entire section of > India > > via coercion. > > > > Jai, you mention one very good thing, that is, every nation evolve > > sooner or later and India would have evolved too without the > British. > > Ya, I agree with you on this, but India would have evolved like the > > continent of Africa--one people, many nations and a perpetual civil > > war. At least, we have ONE intact nation. Segregation of East > > Pakistan and West Pakistan was the biggest mistake committed by the > > British and by Gandhi. The British and the influential India > leaders > > should never have bowed to the tantrums of greedy Jinnah. > > > > Well Jai, I'm not British, I'm not British educated, I'm just an > East- > > Indian who doesn't follow the fashion of slamming the former > > colonizers while ignoring the GOOD they did for India. > > > > Have you ever heard about an East-Indian woman raped by a British > > soilder? Never. However, the marauding Muslim armies treated the > > Hindu women like their personal property and took them at will > > without prosecution or fear of prosecution. The Portugese did the > > same in Goa, Diu, Daman--I still see light skinned, blue-eyed > people > > in Goa, Diu and Daman where the indegineous people are generally > dark- > > skinned and dark-eyed. > > > > Well, enough for now. Hope no-one gets mad at me as this is not > > astrology related. In a round about way it is, had the British not > > kicked out the Muslims, the practice of Astrology would have been > > banned as it is considered un-Islamic and we wouldn't be discussing > > Vedic Astrology today. > > > > Regards, > > Mukund > > > > vedic astrology, "JDB" <jbalagop> wrote: > > > Mukund, > > > > > > I beg to differ on how much "good" the British did for India and > > Indians. As > > > such, their prime motive was to profit > > > from India. So they did absolutely whatever they could in order > to > > increase > > > their profits in India. Like building > > > the railroads, etc. I don't deny that these things eventually did > > work to > > > our advantage. However, just because > > > someone taught you how to speak English, while their robbed your > > home at > > > gun point doesn't make them any good. > > > It's a Stockholm Syndrome some people develop. > > > > > > All I am saying is, no captor however generous is worthy of > > praises. They > > > did something terrible. Perhaps, India may > > > not have been India. However, we still would have evolved along > > with the > > > rest of the world (even with some people > > > choosing to rear cows or goats). But I must say that I am > happier > > to be > > > part of the whole that is India than belong to any one obscure > > princely > > > state. Nonetheless, I have no one to thank for this but my > fellow > > Indians > > > then and now for having the resolve to make India - India. > > > > > > - Jai > > > > > > - > > > "monmuk111" <monmuk111> > > > <vedic astrology> > > > Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:37 AM > > > [vedic astrology] Re: KAL SARP : IS NOT RELEVANT > > > > > > > > > > Hello Sagar, Rageshwari: > > > > > > > > It is a known and accepted fact that India has a 5,000 year old > > > > civilization and was highly advanced in architecture, applied > > > > mathematics and science. > > > > > > > > However, all of this knowlege is of no use if it can't be put > to > > use > > > > for generation of wealth for the people of India. > > > > > > > > The TRUTH is that whatever LITTLE wealth (GDP, GNP) India as a > > > > collecion of small kingdoms was producing was flowing into the > > Royal > > > > treasury and finally overseas. > > > > > > > > The ancient knowledge did NOTHING for the well-being and the > > > > upliftment of the average Indian. > > > > > > > > The British brought with them English and an idea about > diffusion > > of > > > > literacy and the implemented this idea. My family is a > decendant > > of > > > > Bajirao Peshwa and our role was to collect tax on the lands > owned > > by > > > > the Peshwas ruling from Pune. My Grandpa was born into this > family > > > > and he would have and his later generations would have > continued > > the > > > > tax collection role for several more generations had the > British > > not > > > > arrived in India. > > > > > > > > My Grandpa was able to attend a British run college in Bombay > and > > get > > > > his BA and later his LLB and thereafter sent all his 5 kids to > > > > colleges founded by the British and EVERYONE in my family > > prospered > > > > due to the "diffusion of literacy" created by the British. > > > > > > > > I'm sure your family as well as Rageswari's prospered due to the > > > > arrival of British in India. On the other hand, if the British > had > > > > not arrived in India, my father would have been a clerk for some > > > > King's court and I'd be grazing the Royal cows rather than > sitting > > > > here commuinacting on intenet VIA the COMMON medium of English > > > > language (which as well was given to us by the British). > > > > > > > > Sagar, the British DID do a LOT of good for India and we > shouldn't > > > > forget that or deny that. I feel the independence was grossly > pre- > > > > mature, had the British stayed for 20 more years, India would > have > > > > been like Hong Kong--a country of unimginable wealth generated > > purely > > > > through commerce. Well, India could have been better that Hong > > Kong > > > > or Singapore as India possesses tremendous intellectual wealth > as > > > > well as natural resource. > > > > > > > > Because the British left pre-maturely, India fell into the > hands > > of > > > > the Nehru family who over a span of two generations runied > India > > and > > > > its potential. Look at BJP now, India in some ways feels like a > > first > > > > world country, that is because it is now truly becoming a > > government > > > > of the people, by the people rather than a personal Kingdom of > the > > > > Nehru family. > > > > > > > > Well, I can go on and on, but enough for now. > > > > > > > > Mukund > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2003 Report Share Posted August 21, 2003 Satyam Bruyat Priyam Bruyat Dear Jai and Mukund, Your debate is very interesting but I am not sure if it helps promote learning of vedic astrology, the purpose for which many like me have joined the group. I dont wish to hurt any one of you. Just thought I should point it out. Kind regards Ramesh --- JDB <jbalagop wrote: > Mukund, > > I beg to differ on how much "good" the British did > for India and Indians. As > such, their prime motive was to profit > from India. So they did absolutely whatever they > could in order to increase > their profits in India. Like building > the railroads, etc. I don't deny that these things > eventually did work to > our advantage. However, just because > someone taught you how to speak English, while > their robbed your home at > gun point doesn't make them any good. > It's a Stockholm Syndrome some people develop. > > All I am saying is, no captor however generous is > worthy of praises. They > did something terrible. Perhaps, India may > not have been India. However, we still would have > evolved along with the > rest of the world (even with some people > choosing to rear cows or goats). But I must say > that I am happier to be > part of the whole that is India than belong to any > one obscure princely > state. Nonetheless, I have no one to thank for this > but my fellow Indians > then and now for having the resolve to make India - > India. > > - Jai > > - > "monmuk111" <monmuk111 > <vedic astrology> > Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:37 AM > [vedic astrology] Re: KAL SARP : IS NOT > RELEVANT > > > > Hello Sagar, Rageshwari: > > > > It is a known and accepted fact that India has a > 5,000 year old > > civilization and was highly advanced in > architecture, applied > > mathematics and science. > > > > However, all of this knowlege is of no use if it > can't be put to use > > for generation of wealth for the people of India. > > > > The TRUTH is that whatever LITTLE wealth (GDP, > GNP) India as a > > collecion of small kingdoms was producing was > flowing into the Royal > > treasury and finally overseas. > > > > The ancient knowledge did NOTHING for the > well-being and the > > upliftment of the average Indian. > > > > The British brought with them English and an idea > about diffusion of > > literacy and the implemented this idea. My family > is a decendant of > > Bajirao Peshwa and our role was to collect tax on > the lands owned by > > the Peshwas ruling from Pune. My Grandpa was born > into this family > > and he would have and his later generations would > have continued the > > tax collection role for several more generations > had the British not > > arrived in India. > > > > My Grandpa was able to attend a British run > college in Bombay and get > > his BA and later his LLB and thereafter sent all > his 5 kids to > > colleges founded by the British and EVERYONE in my > family prospered > > due to the "diffusion of literacy" created by the > British. > > > > I'm sure your family as well as Rageswari's > prospered due to the > > arrival of British in India. On the other hand, if > the British had > > not arrived in India, my father would have been a > clerk for some > > King's court and I'd be grazing the Royal cows > rather than sitting > > here commuinacting on intenet VIA the COMMON > medium of English > > language (which as well was given to us by the > British). > > > > Sagar, the British DID do a LOT of good for India > and we shouldn't > > forget that or deny that. I feel the independence > was grossly pre- > > mature, had the British stayed for 20 more years, > India would have > > been like Hong Kong--a country of unimginable > wealth generated purely > > through commerce. Well, India could have been > better that Hong Kong > > or Singapore as India possesses tremendous > intellectual wealth as > > well as natural resource. > > > > Because the British left pre-maturely, India fell > into the hands of > > the Nehru family who over a span of two > generations runied India and > > its potential. Look at BJP now, India in some ways > feels like a first > > world country, that is because it is now truly > becoming a government > > of the people, by the people rather than a > personal Kingdom of the > > Nehru family. > > > > Well, I can go on and on, but enough for now. > > > > Mukund > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 Dear Mukund, I, normally, do not participate in any debate other than on astrology. However , though you say Britishers of those days did not commit atroticities, remember that these very kind people were involved in Slave trade. Again your projection of British as saviours of Hindus from Mogul Kings does not match history. Mogul Kings had very limited influence by that time and there were many powerful Hindu Kings ruling their kingdom with benevolence. It is now a days fashionable to criticise the Kings as exploiters en block. Let us not forget that they had protected our wild animals and forests, which we destroyed after independence. Lest you think I am taking anybody's side, let me assure that what I am writing is all part of history. Again do not forget that the benevoent(?) british clubs carried signs like Dogs and Indians not allowed. Chandrashekhar. monmuk111 [monmuk111 ]Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 3:17 AMvedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Re: KAL SARP : IS NOT RELEVANTHello Jai:I agree with you that profit and proliferation of British goods was the prime motive of the British. I strongly disagree with you that they did this on a gun-point. The British were COLONIZERS and NOT CONQUERERS. The biggest and the most valuable contribution of the British to us Indians is the full and final end they brought about to the Muslim Kings. Had the Muslim kings continued for 50 more years, my name would have been Mohammed instead of Mukund and your name would be Jamal instead of Jai. We indigenious Indians would have lost our culture and our religion. The British stayed away from converting the Hindus and stayed out of our culture as well. Ya, some of the atristocratic Indians did began to behave like the British, but that was self-innoculation of the British values rather than a forced innoculation.Worst, the British saved us from the Spanish. The Spaniards set out in search of India and ended up in the Americas and now look at the cultural, religious and outright RAPE they committed in South America and some parts of North America. They converted an ENTIRE continent and savagely looted the natural wealth of the Incas and the indigenious people. They resorted to wholescale slaughter of the indigenious people of South America, the Spaniards are second only to the savage Muslims marauderer from the Middle-East. THE SPANIARDS NEVER ENTERED INDIA DUE TO THE BRITISH PRESENCE. Ya, they entered Phillpines and now everyone in that country is Catholic and have Biblical/Spanish names.--India would have suffered the same fate.Amongst all the foreigners who came to India either as conquerers or religious converters or colonizers, the British were the most HUMANE.The atrocities committed by the British are almost non-existent in comparison to the atrocities committed by the Savage Muslim Conquerers and the Portugese who converted an entire section of India via coercion.Jai, you mention one very good thing, that is, every nation evolve sooner or later and India would have evolved too without the British. Ya, I agree with you on this, but India would have evolved like the continent of Africa--one people, many nations and a perpetual civil war. At least, we have ONE intact nation. Segregation of East Pakistan and West Pakistan was the biggest mistake committed by the British and by Gandhi. The British and the influential India leaders should never have bowed to the tantrums of greedy Jinnah.Well Jai, I'm not British, I'm not British educated, I'm just an East-Indian who doesn't follow the fashion of slamming the former colonizers while ignoring the GOOD they did for India. Have you ever heard about an East-Indian woman raped by a British soilder? Never. However, the marauding Muslim armies treated the Hindu women like their personal property and took them at will without prosecution or fear of prosecution. The Portugese did the same in Goa, Diu, Daman--I still see light skinned, blue-eyed people in Goa, Diu and Daman where the indegineous people are generally dark-skinned and dark-eyed. Well, enough for now. Hope no-one gets mad at me as this is not astrology related. In a round about way it is, had the British not kicked out the Muslims, the practice of Astrology would have been banned as it is considered un-Islamic and we wouldn't be discussing Vedic Astrology today.Regards,Mukundvedic astrology, "JDB" <jbalagop> wrote:> Mukund,> > I beg to differ on how much "good" the British did for India and Indians. As> such, their prime motive was to profit> from India. So they did absolutely whatever they could in order to increase> their profits in India. Like building> the railroads, etc. I don't deny that these things eventually did work to> our advantage. However, just because> someone taught you how to speak English, while their robbed your home at> gun point doesn't make them any good.> It's a Stockholm Syndrome some people develop.> > All I am saying is, no captor however generous is worthy of praises. They> did something terrible. Perhaps, India may> not have been India. However, we still would have evolved along with the> rest of the world (even with some people> choosing to rear cows or goats). But I must say that I am happier to be> part of the whole that is India than belong to any one obscure princely> state. Nonetheless, I have no one to thank for this but my fellow Indians> then and now for having the resolve to make India - India.> > - Jai> > -> "monmuk111" <monmuk111>> To: <vedic astrology>> Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:37 AM> [vedic astrology] Re: KAL SARP : IS NOT RELEVANT> > > > Hello Sagar, Rageshwari:> >> > It is a known and accepted fact that India has a 5,000 year old> > civilization and was highly advanced in architecture, applied> > mathematics and science.> >> > However, all of this knowlege is of no use if it can't be put to use> > for generation of wealth for the people of India.> >> > The TRUTH is that whatever LITTLE wealth (GDP, GNP) India as a> > collecion of small kingdoms was producing was flowing into the Royal> > treasury and finally overseas.> >> > The ancient knowledge did NOTHING for the well-being and the> > upliftment of the average Indian.> >> > The British brought with them English and an idea about diffusion of> > literacy and the implemented this idea. My family is a decendant of> > Bajirao Peshwa and our role was to collect tax on the lands owned by> > the Peshwas ruling from Pune. My Grandpa was born into this family> > and he would have and his later generations would have continued the> > tax collection role for several more generations had the British not> > arrived in India.> >> > My Grandpa was able to attend a British run college in Bombay and get> > his BA and later his LLB and thereafter sent all his 5 kids to> > colleges founded by the British and EVERYONE in my family prospered> > due to the "diffusion of literacy" created by the British.> >> > I'm sure your family as well as Rageswari's prospered due to the> > arrival of British in India. On the other hand, if the British had> > not arrived in India, my father would have been a clerk for some> > King's court and I'd be grazing the Royal cows rather than sitting> > here commuinacting on intenet VIA the COMMON medium of English> > language (which as well was given to us by the British).> >> > Sagar, the British DID do a LOT of good for India and we shouldn't> > forget that or deny that. I feel the independence was grossly pre-> > mature, had the British stayed for 20 more years, India would have> > been like Hong Kong--a country of unimginable wealth generated purely> > through commerce. Well, India could have been better that Hong Kong> > or Singapore as India possesses tremendous intellectual wealth as> > well as natural resource.> >> > Because the British left pre-maturely, India fell into the hands of> > the Nehru family who over a span of two generations runied India and> > its potential. Look at BJP now, India in some ways feels like a first> > world country, that is because it is now truly becoming a government> > of the people, by the people rather than a personal Kingdom of the> > Nehru family.> >> > Well, I can go on and on, but enough for now.> >> > Mukund> >Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Hello Chandrasekhar: I read your note listed below related to British and I respectfully dissent from your thoughts. The British were the FIRST to abolish slavery. They DIDN'T trade in slaves. The slave trade was carried on by the Spaniards, Portugese and the Arabs (mostly from the East coast of Africa). When the British outlawed slavery and slave trade, the British ships used to patrol the area between West coast of Africa and Cuba to capture slave ships. The British rescued thousands of slaves being brought from West coast of Africa to Cuba for their auction and ultimate transfer to other Spanish colonies as slave labor. The British systematically destroyed most known and visible slave holding forts on the West Coast of Africa. Just because British colonized India, it is not appropriate to blindly bad-mouth them. The British colonized North America, lot of Africa, some of China (Hong Kong and some mainland), most of Japan, all of Singapore and the reality is that most of these former colonies are doing BETTER than the countries couquered/colonized by others. The truth is that British were the most humane colonizers of amongst the Dutch, French and Poutugese. The Spaniards were outright murdurers and thieves who didn't care to colonize but only cared to systematically plunder their conquest. Well, as I write this now, I owe a LOT to the British--I was born in a former British colony, India, I got my SUPERIOR engineering education in a former British colony (India) and I currently live comfortably in a former British colony (USA), both these former colonies are built upon British common law and ideals. If I owe somuch of my personality and my way of thinking to the British, I find it difficult to bad-mouth them. Ya, I'm very much comfortable criticizing the British for blessing the partition of India and leaving India too soon, but I can't bad-mouth them. Offcoure, I and all of us East Indians owe our way of life to our 5,000+ year old civilization and for that I and we all PROUDLY identify ourselves as East Indians rather than British or North American or something else. Regards, Mukund vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Mukund, > I, normally, do not participate in any debate other than on astrology. > However , though you say Britishers of those days did not commit > atroticities, remember that these very kind people were involved in Slave > trade. > Again your projection of British as saviours of Hindus from Mogul Kings does > not match history. Mogul Kings had very limited influence by that time and > there were many powerful Hindu Kings ruling their kingdom with benevolence. > It is now a days fashionable to criticise the Kings as exploiters en block. > Let us not forget that they had protected our wild animals and forests, > which we destroyed after independence. > Lest you think I am taking anybody's side, let me assure that what I am > writing is all part of history. Again do not forget that the benevoent(?) > british clubs carried signs like Dogs and Indians not allowed. > Chandrashekhar. > > monmuk111 [monmuk111] > Thursday, August 21, 2003 3:17 AM > vedic astrology > [vedic astrology] Re: KAL SARP : IS NOT RELEVANT > > > Hello Jai: > > I agree with you that profit and proliferation of British goods was > the prime motive of the British. > > I strongly disagree with you that they did this on a gun-point. The > British were COLONIZERS and NOT CONQUERERS. The biggest and the most > valuable contribution of the British to us Indians is the full and > final end they brought about to the Muslim Kings. > > Had the Muslim kings continued for 50 more years, my name would have > been Mohammed instead of Mukund and your name would be Jamal instead > of Jai. We indigenious Indians would have lost our culture and our > religion. > > The British stayed away from converting the Hindus and stayed out of > our culture as well. Ya, some of the atristocratic Indians did began > to behave like the British, but that was self-innoculation of the > British values rather than a forced innoculation. > > Worst, the British saved us from the Spanish. The Spaniards set out > in search of India and ended up in the Americas and now look at the > cultural, religious and outright RAPE they committed in South America > and some parts of North America. They converted an ENTIRE continent > and savagely looted the natural wealth of the Incas and the > indigenious people. They resorted to wholescale slaughter of the > indigenious people of South America, the Spaniards are second only to > the savage Muslims marauderer from the Middle-East. THE SPANIARDS > NEVER ENTERED INDIA DUE TO THE BRITISH PRESENCE. Ya, they entered > Phillpines and now everyone in that country is Catholic and have > Biblical/Spanish names.--India would have suffered the same fate. > > Amongst all the foreigners who came to India either as conquerers or > religious converters or colonizers, the British were the most HUMANE. > > The atrocities committed by the British are almost non-existent in > comparison to the atrocities committed by the Savage Muslim > Conquerers and the Portugese who converted an entire section of India > via coercion. > > Jai, you mention one very good thing, that is, every nation evolve > sooner or later and India would have evolved too without the British. > Ya, I agree with you on this, but India would have evolved like the > continent of Africa--one people, many nations and a perpetual civil > war. At least, we have ONE intact nation. Segregation of East > Pakistan and West Pakistan was the biggest mistake committed by the > British and by Gandhi. The British and the influential India leaders > should never have bowed to the tantrums of greedy Jinnah. > > Well Jai, I'm not British, I'm not British educated, I'm just an East- > Indian who doesn't follow the fashion of slamming the former > colonizers while ignoring the GOOD they did for India. > > Have you ever heard about an East-Indian woman raped by a British > soilder? Never. However, the marauding Muslim armies treated the > Hindu women like their personal property and took them at will > without prosecution or fear of prosecution. The Portugese did the > same in Goa, Diu, Daman--I still see light skinned, blue-eyed people > in Goa, Diu and Daman where the indegineous people are generally dark- > skinned and dark-eyed. > > Well, enough for now. Hope no-one gets mad at me as this is not > astrology related. In a round about way it is, had the British not > kicked out the Muslims, the practice of Astrology would have been > banned as it is considered un-Islamic and we wouldn't be discussing > Vedic Astrology today. > > Regards, > Mukund > > vedic astrology, "JDB" <jbalagop> wrote: > > Mukund, > > > > I beg to differ on how much "good" the British did for India and > Indians. As > > such, their prime motive was to profit > > from India. So they did absolutely whatever they could in order to > increase > > their profits in India. Like building > > the railroads, etc. I don't deny that these things eventually did > work to > > our advantage. However, just because > > someone taught you how to speak English, while their robbed your > home at > > gun point doesn't make them any good. > > It's a Stockholm Syndrome some people develop. > > > > All I am saying is, no captor however generous is worthy of > praises. They > > did something terrible. Perhaps, India may > > not have been India. However, we still would have evolved along > with the > > rest of the world (even with some people > > choosing to rear cows or goats). But I must say that I am happier > to be > > part of the whole that is India than belong to any one obscure > princely > > state. Nonetheless, I have no one to thank for this but my fellow > Indians > > then and now for having the resolve to make India - India. > > > > - Jai > > > > - > > "monmuk111" <monmuk111> > > <vedic astrology> > > Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:37 AM > > [vedic astrology] Re: KAL SARP : IS NOT RELEVANT > > > > > > > Hello Sagar, Rageshwari: > > > > > > It is a known and accepted fact that India has a 5,000 year old > > > civilization and was highly advanced in architecture, applied > > > mathematics and science. > > > > > > However, all of this knowlege is of no use if it can't be put to > use > > > for generation of wealth for the people of India. > > > > > > The TRUTH is that whatever LITTLE wealth (GDP, GNP) India as a > > > collecion of small kingdoms was producing was flowing into the > Royal > > > treasury and finally overseas. > > > > > > The ancient knowledge did NOTHING for the well-being and the > > > upliftment of the average Indian. > > > > > > The British brought with them English and an idea about diffusion > of > > > literacy and the implemented this idea. My family is a decendant > of > > > Bajirao Peshwa and our role was to collect tax on the lands owned > by > > > the Peshwas ruling from Pune. My Grandpa was born into this family > > > and he would have and his later generations would have continued > the > > > tax collection role for several more generations had the British > not > > > arrived in India. > > > > > > My Grandpa was able to attend a British run college in Bombay and > get > > > his BA and later his LLB and thereafter sent all his 5 kids to > > > colleges founded by the British and EVERYONE in my family > prospered > > > due to the "diffusion of literacy" created by the British. > > > > > > I'm sure your family as well as Rageswari's prospered due to the > > > arrival of British in India. On the other hand, if the British had > > > not arrived in India, my father would have been a clerk for some > > > King's court and I'd be grazing the Royal cows rather than sitting > > > here commuinacting on intenet VIA the COMMON medium of English > > > language (which as well was given to us by the British). > > > > > > Sagar, the British DID do a LOT of good for India and we shouldn't > > > forget that or deny that. I feel the independence was grossly pre- > > > mature, had the British stayed for 20 more years, India would have > > > been like Hong Kong--a country of unimginable wealth generated > purely > > > through commerce. Well, India could have been better that Hong > Kong > > > or Singapore as India possesses tremendous intellectual wealth as > > > well as natural resource. > > > > > > Because the British left pre-maturely, India fell into the hands > of > > > the Nehru family who over a span of two generations runied India > and > > > its potential. Look at BJP now, India in some ways feels like a > first > > > world country, that is because it is now truly becoming a > government > > > of the people, by the people rather than a personal Kingdom of the > > > Nehru family. > > > > > > Well, I can go on and on, but enough for now. > > > > > > Mukund > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Terms of Service. > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release 8/19/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Dear Mukund, If you feel oblidged to british, your sentiments have to be respected. However Slaves were used in various british colonies and the one that used most of them was the U.S.A, since the the time it was colonised by the Britishers and many of the inhabitants were from England. So when you call them most humane colonisers, let us not forget that many Indians were publicly hanged to death and bodies left to petrify for public to see. If you think this is humane behaviour, I have no further comments. Chandrashekhar. monmuk111 [monmuk111 ]Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:03 AMvedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Re: KAL SARP : IS NOT RELEVANTHello Chandrasekhar:I read your note listed below related to British and I respectfully dissent from your thoughts.The British were the FIRST to abolish slavery. They DIDN'T trade in slaves. The slave trade was carried on by the Spaniards, Portugese and the Arabs (mostly from the East coast of Africa).When the British outlawed slavery and slave trade, the British ships used to patrol the area between West coast of Africa and Cuba to capture slave ships. The British rescued thousands of slaves being brought from West coast of Africa to Cuba for their auction and ultimate transfer to other Spanish colonies as slave labor.The British systematically destroyed most known and visible slave holding forts on the West Coast of Africa. Just because British colonized India, it is not appropriate to blindly bad-mouth them. The British colonized North America, lot of Africa, some of China (Hong Kong and some mainland), most of Japan, all of Singapore and the reality is that most of these former colonies are doing BETTER than the countries couquered/colonized by others.The truth is that British were the most humane colonizers of amongst the Dutch, French and Poutugese. The Spaniards were outright murdurers and thieves who didn't care to colonize but only cared to systematically plunder their conquest.Well, as I write this now, I owe a LOT to the British--I was born in a former British colony, India, I got my SUPERIOR engineering education in a former British colony (India) and I currently live comfortably in a former British colony (USA), both these former colonies are built upon British common law and ideals. If I owe somuch of my personality and my way of thinking to the British, I find it difficult to bad-mouth them. Ya, I'm very much comfortable criticizing the British for blessing the partition of India and leaving India too soon, but I can't bad-mouth them.Offcoure, I and all of us East Indians owe our way of life to our 5,000+ year old civilization and for that I and we all PROUDLY identify ourselves as East Indians rather than British or North American or something else.Regards,Mukund--- In vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel> wrote:> Dear Mukund,> I, normally, do not participate in any debate other than on astrology.> However , though you say Britishers of those days did not commit> atroticities, remember that these very kind people were involved in Slave> trade.> Again your projection of British as saviours of Hindus from Mogul Kings does> not match history. Mogul Kings had very limited influence by that time and> there were many powerful Hindu Kings ruling their kingdom with benevolence.> It is now a days fashionable to criticise the Kings as exploiters en block.> Let us not forget that they had protected our wild animals and forests,> which we destroyed after independence.> Lest you think I am taking anybody's side, let me assure that what I am> writing is all part of history. Again do not forget that the benevoent(?)> british clubs carried signs like Dogs and Indians not allowed.> Chandrashekhar.> > monmuk111 [monmuk111]> Thursday, August 21, 2003 3:17 AM> vedic astrology> [vedic astrology] Re: KAL SARP : IS NOT RELEVANT> > > Hello Jai:> > I agree with you that profit and proliferation of British goods was> the prime motive of the British.> > I strongly disagree with you that they did this on a gun-point. The> British were COLONIZERS and NOT CONQUERERS. The biggest and the most> valuable contribution of the British to us Indians is the full and> final end they brought about to the Muslim Kings.> > Had the Muslim kings continued for 50 more years, my name would have> been Mohammed instead of Mukund and your name would be Jamal instead> of Jai. We indigenious Indians would have lost our culture and our> religion.> > The British stayed away from converting the Hindus and stayed out of> our culture as well. Ya, some of the atristocratic Indians did began> to behave like the British, but that was self-innoculation of the> British values rather than a forced innoculation.> > Worst, the British saved us from the Spanish. The Spaniards set out> in search of India and ended up in the Americas and now look at the> cultural, religious and outright RAPE they committed in South America> and some parts of North America. They converted an ENTIRE continent> and savagely looted the natural wealth of the Incas and the> indigenious people. They resorted to wholescale slaughter of the> indigenious people of South America, the Spaniards are second only to> the savage Muslims marauderer from the Middle-East. THE SPANIARDS> NEVER ENTERED INDIA DUE TO THE BRITISH PRESENCE. Ya, they entered> Phillpines and now everyone in that country is Catholic and have> Biblical/Spanish names.--India would have suffered the same fate.> > Amongst all the foreigners who came to India either as conquerers or> religious converters or colonizers, the British were the most HUMANE.> > The atrocities committed by the British are almost non-existent in> comparison to the atrocities committed by the Savage Muslim> Conquerers and the Portugese who converted an entire section of India> via coercion.> > Jai, you mention one very good thing, that is, every nation evolve> sooner or later and India would have evolved too without the British.> Ya, I agree with you on this, but India would have evolved like the> continent of Africa--one people, many nations and a perpetual civil> war. At least, we have ONE intact nation. Segregation of East> Pakistan and West Pakistan was the biggest mistake committed by the> British and by Gandhi. The British and the influential India leaders> should never have bowed to the tantrums of greedy Jinnah.> > Well Jai, I'm not British, I'm not British educated, I'm just an East-> Indian who doesn't follow the fashion of slamming the former> colonizers while ignoring the GOOD they did for India.> > Have you ever heard about an East-Indian woman raped by a British> soilder? Never. However, the marauding Muslim armies treated the> Hindu women like their personal property and took them at will> without prosecution or fear of prosecution. The Portugese did the> same in Goa, Diu, Daman--I still see light skinned, blue-eyed people> in Goa, Diu and Daman where the indegineous people are generally dark-> skinned and dark-eyed.> > Well, enough for now. Hope no-one gets mad at me as this is not> astrology related. In a round about way it is, had the British not> kicked out the Muslims, the practice of Astrology would have been> banned as it is considered un-Islamic and we wouldn't be discussing> Vedic Astrology today.> > Regards,> Mukund> > vedic astrology, "JDB" <jbalagop> wrote:> > Mukund,> >> > I beg to differ on how much "good" the British did for India and> Indians. As> > such, their prime motive was to profit> > from India. So they did absolutely whatever they could in order to> increase> > their profits in India. Like building> > the railroads, etc. I don't deny that these things eventually did> work to> > our advantage. However, just because> > someone taught you how to speak English, while their robbed your> home at> > gun point doesn't make them any good.> > It's a Stockholm Syndrome some people develop.> >> > All I am saying is, no captor however generous is worthy of> praises. They> > did something terrible. Perhaps, India may> > not have been India. However, we still would have evolved along> with the> > rest of the world (even with some people> > choosing to rear cows or goats). But I must say that I am happier> to be> > part of the whole that is India than belong to any one obscure> princely> > state. Nonetheless, I have no one to thank for this but my fellow> Indians> > then and now for having the resolve to make India - India.> >> > - Jai> >> > -> > "monmuk111" <monmuk111>> > <vedic astrology>> > Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:37 AM> > [vedic astrology] Re: KAL SARP : IS NOT RELEVANT> >> >> > > Hello Sagar, Rageshwari:> > >> > > It is a known and accepted fact that India has a 5,000 year old> > > civilization and was highly advanced in architecture, applied> > > mathematics and science.> > >> > > However, all of this knowlege is of no use if it can't be put to> use> > > for generation of wealth for the people of India.> > >> > > The TRUTH is that whatever LITTLE wealth (GDP, GNP) India as a> > > collecion of small kingdoms was producing was flowing into the> Royal> > > treasury and finally overseas.> > >> > > The ancient knowledge did NOTHING for the well-being and the> > > upliftment of the average Indian.> > >> > > The British brought with them English and an idea about diffusion> of> > > literacy and the implemented this idea. My family is a decendant> of> > > Bajirao Peshwa and our role was to collect tax on the lands owned> by> > > the Peshwas ruling from Pune. My Grandpa was born into this family> > > and he would have and his later generations would have continued> the> > > tax collection role for several more generations had the British> not> > > arrived in India.> > >> > > My Grandpa was able to attend a British run college in Bombay and> get> > > his BA and later his LLB and thereafter sent all his 5 kids to> > > colleges founded by the British and EVERYONE in my family> prospered> > > due to the "diffusion of literacy" created by the British.> > >> > > I'm sure your family as well as Rageswari's prospered due to the> > > arrival of British in India. On the other hand, if the British had> > > not arrived in India, my father would have been a clerk for some> > > King's court and I'd be grazing the Royal cows rather than sitting> > > here commuinacting on intenet VIA the COMMON medium of English> > > language (which as well was given to us by the British).> > >> > > Sagar, the British DID do a LOT of good for India and we shouldn't> > > forget that or deny that. I feel the independence was grossly pre-> > > mature, had the British stayed for 20 more years, India would have> > > been like Hong Kong--a country of unimginable wealth generated> purely> > > through commerce. Well, India could have been better that Hong> Kong> > > or Singapore as India possesses tremendous intellectual wealth as> > > well as natural resource.> > >> > > Because the British left pre-maturely, India fell into the hands> of> > > the Nehru family who over a span of two generations runied India> and> > > its potential. Look at BJP now, India in some ways feels like a> first> > > world country, that is because it is now truly becoming a> government> > > of the people, by the people rather than a personal Kingdom of the> > > Nehru family.> > >> > > Well, I can go on and on, but enough for now.> > >> > > Mukund> > >> > > Sponsor> > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology> > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||> > Terms of Service.> > ---> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release 8/19/03Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Mukund, You got your education from a former British colony. You live in a former British colony (although USA was only part British colony), etc. Nothing seems so bad as long as those sentences have a former in them. However, how would you have liked to have studied in India during British rule? Little less comfortable... I'm sure. How about working in a British colony, when you are not British? More uncomfortable? Especially, at 50 when one celebrates their promotion to peon from sub-peon? That's where a lot of our brilliant and bright fathers and grandfathers were simply unable to act upon their dreams... - Jai - Chandrashekhar Sharma vedic astrology Wednesday, August 27, 2003 4:09 PM RE: [vedic astrology] Re: KAL SARP : IS NOT RELEVANT Dear Mukund, If you feel oblidged to british, your sentiments have to be respected. However Slaves were used in various british colonies and the one that used most of them was the U.S.A, since the the time it was colonised by the Britishers and many of the inhabitants were from England. So when you call them most humane colonisers, let us not forget that many Indians were publicly hanged to death and bodies left to petrify for public to see. If you think this is humane behaviour, I have no further comments. Chandrashekhar. monmuk111 [monmuk111 ]Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:03 AMvedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Re: KAL SARP : IS NOT RELEVANTHello Chandrasekhar:I read your note listed below related to British and I respectfully dissent from your thoughts.The British were the FIRST to abolish slavery. They DIDN'T trade in slaves. The slave trade was carried on by the Spaniards, Portugese and the Arabs (mostly from the East coast of Africa).When the British outlawed slavery and slave trade, the British ships used to patrol the area between West coast of Africa and Cuba to capture slave ships. The British rescued thousands of slaves being brought from West coast of Africa to Cuba for their auction and ultimate transfer to other Spanish colonies as slave labor.The British systematically destroyed most known and visible slave holding forts on the West Coast of Africa. Just because British colonized India, it is not appropriate to blindly bad-mouth them. The British colonized North America, lot of Africa, some of China (Hong Kong and some mainland), most of Japan, all of Singapore and the reality is that most of these former colonies are doing BETTER than the countries couquered/colonized by others.The truth is that British were the most humane colonizers of amongst the Dutch, French and Poutugese. The Spaniards were outright murdurers and thieves who didn't care to colonize but only cared to systematically plunder their conquest.Well, as I write this now, I owe a LOT to the British--I was born in a former British colony, India, I got my SUPERIOR engineering education in a former British colony (India) and I currently live comfortably in a former British colony (USA), both these former colonies are built upon British common law and ideals. If I owe somuch of my personality and my way of thinking to the British, I find it difficult to bad-mouth them. Ya, I'm very much comfortable criticizing the British for blessing the partition of India and leaving India too soon, but I can't bad-mouth them.Offcoure, I and all of us East Indians owe our way of life to our 5,000+ year old civilization and for that I and we all PROUDLY identify ourselves as East Indians rather than British or North American or something else.Regards,Mukund--- In vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel> wrote:> Dear Mukund,> I, normally, do not participate in any debate other than on astrology.> However , though you say Britishers of those days did not commit> atroticities, remember that these very kind people were involved in Slave> trade.> Again your projection of British as saviours of Hindus from Mogul Kings does> not match history. Mogul Kings had very limited influence by that time and> there were many powerful Hindu Kings ruling their kingdom with benevolence.> It is now a days fashionable to criticise the Kings as exploiters en block.> Let us not forget that they had protected our wild animals and forests,> which we destroyed after independence.> Lest you think I am taking anybody's side, let me assure that what I am> writing is all part of history. Again do not forget that the benevoent(?)> british clubs carried signs like Dogs and Indians not allowed.> Chandrashekhar.> > monmuk111 [monmuk111]> Thursday, August 21, 2003 3:17 AM> vedic astrology> [vedic astrology] Re: KAL SARP : IS NOT RELEVANT> > > Hello Jai:> > I agree with you that profit and proliferation of British goods was> the prime motive of the British.> > I strongly disagree with you that they did this on a gun-point. The> British were COLONIZERS and NOT CONQUERERS. The biggest and the most> valuable contribution of the British to us Indians is the full and> final end they brought about to the Muslim Kings.> > Had the Muslim kings continued for 50 more years, my name would have> been Mohammed instead of Mukund and your name would be Jamal instead> of Jai. We indigenious Indians would have lost our culture and our> religion.> > The British stayed away from converting the Hindus and stayed out of> our culture as well. Ya, some of the atristocratic Indians did began> to behave like the British, but that was self-innoculation of the> British values rather than a forced innoculation.> > Worst, the British saved us from the Spanish. The Spaniards set out> in search of India and ended up in the Americas and now look at the> cultural, religious and outright RAPE they committed in South America> and some parts of North America. They converted an ENTIRE continent> and savagely looted the natural wealth of the Incas and the> indigenious people. They resorted to wholescale slaughter of the> indigenious people of South America, the Spaniards are second only to> the savage Muslims marauderer from the Middle-East. THE SPANIARDS> NEVER ENTERED INDIA DUE TO THE BRITISH PRESENCE. Ya, they entered> Phillpines and now everyone in that country is Catholic and have> Biblical/Spanish names.--India would have suffered the same fate.> > Amongst all the foreigners who came to India either as conquerers or> religious converters or colonizers, the British were the most HUMANE.> > The atrocities committed by the British are almost non-existent in> comparison to the atrocities committed by the Savage Muslim> Conquerers and the Portugese who converted an entire section of India> via coercion.> > Jai, you mention one very good thing, that is, every nation evolve> sooner or later and India would have evolved too without the British.> Ya, I agree with you on this, but India would have evolved like the> continent of Africa--one people, many nations and a perpetual civil> war. At least, we have ONE intact nation. Segregation of East> Pakistan and West Pakistan was the biggest mistake committed by the> British and by Gandhi. The British and the influential India leaders> should never have bowed to the tantrums of greedy Jinnah.> > Well Jai, I'm not British, I'm not British educated, I'm just an East-> Indian who doesn't follow the fashion of slamming the former> colonizers while ignoring the GOOD they did for India.> > Have you ever heard about an East-Indian woman raped by a British> soilder? Never. However, the marauding Muslim armies treated the> Hindu women like their personal property and took them at will> without prosecution or fear of prosecution. The Portugese did the> same in Goa, Diu, Daman--I still see light skinned, blue-eyed people> in Goa, Diu and Daman where the indegineous people are generally dark-> skinned and dark-eyed.> > Well, enough for now. Hope no-one gets mad at me as this is not> astrology related. In a round about way it is, had the British not> kicked out the Muslims, the practice of Astrology would have been> banned as it is considered un-Islamic and we wouldn't be discussing> Vedic Astrology today.> > Regards,> Mukund> > vedic astrology, "JDB" <jbalagop> wrote:> > Mukund,> >> > I beg to differ on how much "good" the British did for India and> Indians. As> > such, their prime motive was to profit> > from India. So they did absolutely whatever they could in order to> increase> > their profits in India. Like building> > the railroads, etc. I don't deny that these things eventually did> work to> > our advantage. However, just because> > someone taught you how to speak English, while their robbed your> home at> > gun point doesn't make them any good.> > It's a Stockholm Syndrome some people develop.> >> > All I am saying is, no captor however generous is worthy of> praises. They> > did something terrible. Perhaps, India may> > not have been India. However, we still would have evolved along> with the> > rest of the world (even with some people> > choosing to rear cows or goats). But I must say that I am happier> to be> > part of the whole that is India than belong to any one obscure> princely> > state. Nonetheless, I have no one to thank for this but my fellow> Indians> > then and now for having the resolve to make India - India.> >> > - Jai> >> > -> > "monmuk111" <monmuk111>> > <vedic astrology>> > Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:37 AM> > [vedic astrology] Re: KAL SARP : IS NOT RELEVANT> >> >> > > Hello Sagar, Rageshwari:> > >> > > It is a known and accepted fact that India has a 5,000 year old> > > civilization and was highly advanced in architecture, applied> > > mathematics and science.> > >> > > However, all of this knowlege is of no use if it can't be put to> use> > > for generation of wealth for the people of India.> > >> > > The TRUTH is that whatever LITTLE wealth (GDP, GNP) India as a> > > collecion of small kingdoms was producing was flowing into the> Royal> > > treasury and finally overseas.> > >> > > The ancient knowledge did NOTHING for the well-being and the> > > upliftment of the average Indian.> > >> > > The British brought with them English and an idea about diffusion> of> > > literacy and the implemented this idea. My family is a decendant> of> > > Bajirao Peshwa and our role was to collect tax on the lands owned> by> > > the Peshwas ruling from Pune. My Grandpa was born into this family> > > and he would have and his later generations would have continued> the> > > tax collection role for several more generations had the British> not> > > arrived in India.> > >> > > My Grandpa was able to attend a British run college in Bombay and> get> > > his BA and later his LLB and thereafter sent all his 5 kids to> > > colleges founded by the British and EVERYONE in my family> prospered> > > due to the "diffusion of literacy" created by the British.> > >> > > I'm sure your family as well as Rageswari's prospered due to the> > > arrival of British in India. On the other hand, if the British had> > > not arrived in India, my father would have been a clerk for some> > > King's court and I'd be grazing the Royal cows rather than sitting> > > here commuinacting on intenet VIA the COMMON medium of English> > > language (which as well was given to us by the British).> > >> > > Sagar, the British DID do a LOT of good for India and we shouldn't> > > forget that or deny that. I feel the independence was grossly pre-> > > mature, had the British stayed for 20 more years, India would have> > > been like Hong Kong--a country of unimginable wealth generated> purely> > > through commerce. Well, India could have been better that Hong> Kong> > > or Singapore as India possesses tremendous intellectual wealth as> > > well as natural resource.> > >> > > Because the British left pre-maturely, India fell into the hands> of> > > the Nehru family who over a span of two generations runied India> and> > > its potential. Look at BJP now, India in some ways feels like a> first> > > world country, that is because it is now truly becoming a> government> > > of the people, by the people rather than a personal Kingdom of the> > > Nehru family.> > >> > > Well, I can go on and on, but enough for now.> > >> > > Mukund> > >> > > Sponsor> > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology> > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||> > Terms of Service.> > ---> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release 8/19/03Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... 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