Riddle of aspects of Sat Jup Mars

August 14, 2003

Dear Chandrashekhar,

I am a new member of the list. So, I have not read your message about your

opinion on aspects of Rahu. As you have a splendid knowledge of classics,

may I ask you more about this point? In Astro Sutras, J.N. Bhasin asserts:

"Rahu and Kethu have both a normal and special aspect. By their special

aspect these shadowy planets aspect or influence the house etc that may

happen to lie 5th or 9th from them. In other words their aspects are like

those of the planet Jupiter. (Maharshi Parashar says in this connection:

'Sut Madan Navantye Purna Drishti Tamasya Yugal Dasham Gehe Chardha Drishtim

Vadanti.').

What is right or wrong in this assertion? In ancient western astrology, Rahu

and Kethu could not aspect anything. There was a proverb: "No light, lo

influence". So, they could receive aspects, but the could not aspect

something else.

Best regards

Denis

Thu, 14 Aug 2003 00:50:33 +0530

"Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel

RE: Riddle of aspects of Sat Jup Mars

Dear Sunil,

You will observe that Rahu and Ketu find no place in the planetary

cabinet.Again if we look at the classics carefully then Eka Pada, Dwipada

etc drishties are mentioned but these are not full strength

drishties(described at Ch 26 shloka 2-3). All planets do influence all the

houses of the Natal and by extention varga charts.

You must have read my opinion(personal) on aspects of Rahu. Different

opinions are held by the sages on this factor. I prefer not to treat them

having aspect as they are not planets but nodal points.It is also

interesting to note that the special aspects attributed to Rahu are not

mentioned in BPHS Chapter 26 which deals with planetary aspects.Of course

this is my personal opinion.

August 14, 2003

Dear Denis,

The problem with texts available to us today is that, in case of ancient texts

like BPHS, the shlokas were collected from various Astrologers by Pt. Jha.

Compilation of those are available. There are about 6 different editions of

BPHS in circulation with varying number of shlokas. The Shloka

"Sutamadananavantye......" appears in what is refered to as Bombay edition of

BPHS.Many new shlokas keep on appearing in various texts. Since the Sages have

passed away thousands of years back and their direct parampara disciples are

not known, one has to take some of the shlokas with a pinch of salt.Added to

this is the fact of brevity of sanskrita language and the change it underwent

over years (It is said that there are about 1,00,000 Grammars over the various

Yugas). Some translations also leave much to be desired. You will note that

BPHS in chapter 26 on Planetary aspects does not even mention Rahu and Ketu for

their aspects. There are also many other factors where Rahu and Ketu do not find

any mention such as Planetary cabinet, Sex of planets, Primordial compounds of

planets, Gunas of planets etc. This has lead me not to consider aspects of Rahu

and Ketu. Again in the shloka you mentioned it also indicates that rahu casts

his aspect on the 12th house(Antye) so equating his aspect if there is one to

begin with to that of Jupiter would not be very logical.

You will also find that rules for Mooltrikona of planets are given by Parashara and

What one tends to forget is that rahu and Ketu are nodal points and not planets

as such, even the sages refer to them as Chayagrahas(shadowy planets), this is

the logic behind me not taking them to be capable of casting aspects.

I must clarify here that this is my personal opinion and others hold different views.

Chandrashekhar.

Labouré Denis [Laboure (AT) WANADOO (DOT) FR]Sent:

Thursday, August 14, 2003 2:00 PMvedic astrologySubject:

[vedic astrology] Riddle of aspects of Sat Jup MarsDear Chandrashekhar,I am a

new member of the list. So, I have not read your message about youropinion on

aspects of Rahu. As you have a splendid knowledge of classics,may I ask you

more about this point? In Astro Sutras, J.N. Bhasin asserts:"Rahu and Kethu

have both a normal and special aspect. By their specialaspect these shadowy

planets aspect or influence the house etc that mayhappen to lie 5th or 9th from

them. In other words their aspects are likethose of the planet Jupiter.

(Maharshi Parashar says in this connection:'Sut Madan Navantye Purna Drishti

Tamasya Yugal Dasham Gehe Chardha DrishtimVadanti.').What is right or wrong in

this assertion? In ancient western astrology, Rahuand Kethu could not aspect

anything. There was a proverb: "No light, loinfluence". So, they could receive

aspects, but the could not aspectsomething else.Best regardsDenis Thu,

14 Aug 2003 00:50:33 +0530 "Chandrashekhar Sharma"

<boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk>RE: Riddle of aspects of Sat Jup MarsDear

Sunil,You will observe that Rahu and Ketu find no place in the

planetarycabinet.Again if we look at the classics carefully then Eka Pada,

Dwipadaetc drishties are mentioned but these are not full

strengthdrishties(described at Ch 26 shloka 2-3). All planets do influence all

thehouses of the Natal and by extention varga charts.You must have read my

opinion(personal) on aspects of Rahu. Differentopinions are held by the sages

on this factor. I prefer not to treat themhaving aspect as they are not planets

but nodal points.It is alsointeresting to note that the special aspects

attributed to Rahu are notmentioned in BPHS Chapter 26 which deals with

planetary aspects.Of coursethis is my personal opinion.Archives:

vedic astrologyGroup info:

vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......

August 15, 2003

Dear Chandrashekhar,

Thank you for your answer. May I ask you some extra question about BPHS

chapter 26?

This is a quotation from JN Bhasin "The art of prediction":

"A planet located 10th from any house etc. throws 3/4th its normal aspect on

the house. This aspect may be called kendra aspect (square aspect). In this

connection please see the following slokha n°3 of chapter 26 of

BPHS......... i.e. planets have one fourth aspect or influence on 3rd and

10th house from them, half on those 5th and 9th from them, 3/4th on 4th and

8th from them and full on the 7th from them."

Does any scholar use this "kendra aspect"? When do we have to use it

(specific rules)? What about the 8th aspect (wich has also 3/4th strength)?

Thanks a lot

Denis

Fri, 15 Aug 2003 01:02:14 +0530

"Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel

RE: Riddle of aspects of Sat Jup Mars

Dear Denis,

The problem with texts available to us today is that, in case of ancient

texts like BPHS, the shlokas were collected from various Astrologers by Pt.

Jha. Compilation of those are available. There are about 6 different

editions of BPHS in circulation with varying number of shlokas. The Shloka

"Sutamadananavantye......" appears in what is refered to as Bombay edition

of BPHS.Many new shlokas keep on appearing in various texts. Since the Sages

have passed away thousands of years back and their direct parampara

disciples are not known, one has to take some of the shlokas with a pinch of

salt.Added to this is the fact of brevity of sanskrita language and the

change it underwent over years (It is said that there are about 1,00,000

Grammars over the various Yugas). Some translations also leave much to be

desired. You will note that BPHS in chapter 26 on Planetary aspects does not

even mention Rahu and Ketu for their aspects. There are also many other

factors where Rahu and Ketu do not find any mention such as Planetary

cabinet, Sex of planets, Primordial compounds of planets, Gunas of planets

etc. This has lead me not to consider aspects of Rahu and Ketu. Again in the

shloka you mentioned it also indicates that rahu casts his aspect on the

12th house(Antye) so equating his aspect if there is one to begin with to

that of Jupiter would not be very logical.

You will also find that rules for Mooltrikona of planets are given by

Parashara and

What one tends to forget is that rahu and Ketu are nodal points and not

planets as such, even the sages refer to them as Chayagrahas(shadowy

planets), this is the logic behind me not taking them to be capable of

casting aspects.

I must clarify here that this is my personal opinion and others hold

different views.

Chandrashekhar.

August 15, 2003

Dear Chandhrashekharji,

Thanks for your reply, short time here so pardon if any errors,

thanks for telling that all planets influence all houses in a way

which i always used to think as very logical to our own eye vision

whch can see whole spectrum but will have some focus on fav places of

interest - which can be corelated to full strength aspects.

Thanks

best wishes

SJ

vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma"

<boxdel> wrote:

> Dear Sunil,

> You will observe that Rahu and Ketu find no place in the planetary

> cabinet.Again if we look at the classics carefully then Eka Pada,

Dwipada

> etc drishties are mentioned but these are not full strength

> drishties(described at Ch 26 shloka 2-3). All planets do influence

all the

> houses of the Natal and by extention varga charts.

>

> What Sanjayji was talking about was full aspects specifically

mentioned for

> Jup. Sat. and Mar. in the shloka which(you may note) mentions

aspects of 7

> planets.Shloka 4 ch 26 mentions the special aspects of Jupiter,

Saturn and

> Mars.About aspect on 6th house Saturn is not Vaidya, but a

> servant(Bhritya) so no aspect on 6th house( you will reember that

6th house

> significance includes deceases,maternal relatives and enemies).

>

> You must have read my opinion(personal) on aspects of Rahu.

Different

> opinions are held by the sages on this factor. I prefer not to

treat them

> having aspect as they are not planets but nodal points.It is also

> interesting to note that the special aspects attributed to Rahu

are not

> mentioned in BPHS Chapter 26 which deals with planetary aspects.Of

course

> this is my personal opinion.

>

> Moon is royal planet, if you observe Royalty, or for that matter

those in

> oposition of authority, you will find that they expect others to do

the

> work, prefering to wield power than exert themselves.

>

> All planets aspect 7th as this is the 7th bhava representing spouse

( also

> partners and associates at work) and everybody including the King

has a duty

> to protect them so all planets aspect the 7th with full strength

aspect.

>

> While the theory of outer planets having a better overview is

attractive,

> there are many other outer planets which are not give any aspects.

Lest one

> thinks the ancients did not know of their existence, let me put on

record

> that the fact of there being other Surya mandals is recorded in

many ancient

> astronomical works and scriptures. Again if we accept the theory

then Saturn

> should have more aspects than either Mars or Jupiter, this is not

the case.

>

> The fact of the matter is that the Sages with their supernatural

power of

> observation and analysis (also called divine knowlede) understood

the way

> planets' position affects one's life and to make it easy to

understand for

> lesser mortals presented in a manner that one can understand the

principles

> underlying Vedic Astrology. It is rightly said "Yatpinde

tatbramhande"

> meaning body represents the universe.

> Hope this helps,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> Sunil John [suniljohn@l...]

> Wednesday, August 13, 2003 7:51 PM

> vedic astrology

> [vedic astrology] Riddle of aspects of Sat Jup Mars

>

> Dear Chandrashekharji,

>

> Thanks so much for answering this, I presume many others

had asked

> too. It really makes sense now, u make it sound very simple some

> additional queries which might be stupid or due to limited

knowledge on

> basics so pls bear.

>

> 1. If Saturn stands for servants and I think service too,

shouldnt

> Saturn be looking at the 6th house also.

>

> 2. Why doesnt any planet have the 2nd and 6th,11th aspect.

>

> 3. Also, how about the aspects of Rahu 5,7,9 - how can

this be seen

> logically- some astrologers also use 5,7,9,12th aspect for Rahu

>

> 4. Why doesnt Moon have an additional aspect, cant it have

a second

> aspect or say 4th aspect as it standing for mom.

>

> 5. Also, can u pls expand on the 7th aspect of every

planet, u mean

> one looks straight at the person standing in front.

>

> Maybe these questions are stupid but i am just trying to

think.

>

> Thanks for ur patience and time.

>

> THe outer planets have more aspects - is it since it is

bigger, more

> energy/attraction power ( maybe gravitational power) and has an

overview of

> things

>

> Best wishes

>

> Sunil John

>

> Dear learned members,

> Many students have asked on the answer to puzzle posed by

Sanjayji

> on his

> website regarding why Jupiter saturn and mars aspect by

5/9,3/10 and

> 4/8

> aspects in addition to the 7th house aspect as with other

> planets.Since till

> now nobody haas answered this I will answer this.The reason

for

> delay was

> that,I waited for those more learned than me to respond.

The answer

> to what

> Sanjayji asked is pretty straightforward and rooted in basic

> concepts of

> Astrology. Look at planetary cabinet and the answer is

obvious.

> Jupiter is the Minister of the King so he has to watch over

good

> education

> being imparted(Specially to Rajputras or princes) and

protect the

> Dharma of

> the King and kingdom (Royal duties unto Kingdom and

citizens). So he

> aspects

> 5th house the house of Progenyand education( more precisely

> knowledge) and

> 9th house denoting Dharma.

> Saturn is described as Bhritya (Servant) 3rd is Parakrama

and

> Coborns and

> 10th is Rajya and Karma. It is the duty of a servant to

protect the

> Kingdom

> by his parakrama(Valour).In order to perfom his duties

Saturn

> aspects 3rd

> and 10th house.

> Mars is the General of Army his duty is to protect

Lands,look after

> the

> welfare/happiness(Sukha) and Life of the King so he aspects

4th(Land

> and

> Happiness or welfare) and 8th (Ayush Bhava) in order to

protect

> them.

> Confusion can arise as routinely 8th house is called Mrityu

> sthana(that

> result is there when ayush sthana is afflicted and

obviously so) but

> remember it is 2nd that is mrityu and therefore 2nd lord is

called

> Marakesh.

> All planets aspect the 7th represented by Spouse (

Associates too)

> as it is

> everybody's prime duty.

> I trust this will help.

> Chandrashekhar.

>

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August 15, 2003

Dear Denis,

What is given in BPHS is correct. You will understand that a planet in any house

is bound to modify results of the houses no matter where it is located.Square

aspects are usually considered in Tajik system of prediction. J.H. Bhasin is no

doubt a respectable Astrologer, however he has sometimes used parameters not

found in any standard Astrological texts. An example would be the Ayanamsha

used by him. Even within Vedic Jyotish there are many systems given by the

sages and so one can not say with certainty if a particular statement is

correct or not. Now the question is how to find out the factual position. I

follow the below line of approach.

I have already explained the possibility of erors having crept in to the Ancient

astrological texts as transmission was through oral repetition and memory

based.The best way to ascertain correct position is to read more recent texts

in conjunction with the Ancient texts. Modern texts like Jataka Parijaat,

Phaldeepika,Brihatjataka, Saravali were available to later day astrologers in

written form and element of error is least here. Having read both one should

then try to understand the logic behind various yogas aspects etc. in order to

understand the correct position. The sages too have enjoined the students to

apply their sense of proportion when giving a prediction.

In practice it is better to follow the system that one understands best and has

tried on known chart and found one's capacity to interprete the yogas in the

chart to match the events known.

Hope this helps,

Chandrashekhar.

Labouré Denis [Laboure (AT) WANADOO (DOT) FR]Sent:

Friday, August 15, 2003 4:14 PMvedic astrologySubject:

[vedic astrology] RE: Riddle of aspects of Sat Jup MarsDear

Chandrashekhar,Thank you for your answer. May I ask you some extra question

about BPHSchapter 26?This is a quotation from JN Bhasin "The art of

prediction":"A planet located 10th from any house etc. throws 3/4th its normal

aspect onthe house. This aspect may be called kendra aspect (square aspect). In

thisconnection please see the following slokha n°3 of chapter 26 ofBPHS.........

i.e. planets have one fourth aspect or influence on 3rd and10th house from them,

half on those 5th and 9th from them, 3/4th on 4th and8th from them and full on

the 7th from them."Does any scholar use this "kendra aspect"? When do we have

to use it(specific rules)? What about the 8th aspect (wich has also 3/4th

strength)?Thanks a lotDenis Fri, 15 Aug 2003 01:02:14 +0530

"Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk>RE: Riddle of aspects of

Sat Jup MarsDear Denis,The problem with texts available to us today is that, in

case of ancienttexts like BPHS, the shlokas were collected from various

Astrologers by Pt.Jha. Compilation of those are available. There are about 6

differenteditions of BPHS in circulation with varying number of shlokas. The

Shloka"Sutamadananavantye......" appears in what is refered to as Bombay

editionof BPHS.Many new shlokas keep on appearing in various texts. Since the

Sageshave passed away thousands of years back and their direct

paramparadisciples are not known, one has to take some of the shlokas with a

pinch ofsalt.Added to this is the fact of brevity of sanskrita language and

thechange it underwent over years (It is said that there are about

1,00,000Grammars over the various Yugas). Some translations also leave much to

bedesired. You will note that BPHS in chapter 26 on Planetary aspects does

noteven mention Rahu and Ketu for their aspects. There are also many

otherfactors where Rahu and Ketu do not find any mention such as

Planetarycabinet, Sex of planets, Primordial compounds of planets, Gunas of

planetsetc. This has lead me not to consider aspects of Rahu and Ketu. Again in

theshloka you mentioned it also indicates that rahu casts his aspect on the12th

house(Antye) so equating his aspect if there is one to begin with tothat of

Jupiter would not be very logical.You will also find that rules for Mooltrikona

of planets are given byParashara andWhat one tends to forget is that rahu and

Ketu are nodal points and notplanets as such, even the sages refer to them as

Chayagrahas(shadowyplanets), this is the logic behind me not taking them to be

capable ofcasting aspects.I must clarify here that this is my personal opinion

and others holddifferent views.Chandrashekhar.Archives:

vedic astrologyGroup info:

vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......

August 15, 2003

Dear Denis,

There are verses in classics which specify type of aspects in a yoga ruling out

any other aspect of the graha. For example, Kona aspect of Saturn will mean

aspect on 3rd and 10th house, leaving out 7th house aspect. Quarter aspect of

Mars will mean aspect of Mars on 4th or 8th house only, leaving out 7th house

aspect. Such combinations are given in Hora Ratna Vol 1.

Best wishes

Shiv Chadha

-

Labouré Denis

vedic astrology

Friday, August 15, 2003 4:14 PM

[vedic astrology] RE: Riddle of aspects of Sat Jup Mars

Dear Chandrashekhar,Thank you for your answer. May I ask you some extra question