Guest guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 Namaste, I was following your discussion closely. I have a few doubts. I will try to create some analogical situations and I would really appreciate your opinion on the same. 1. Say Mr.A is born a 100 year back in time from today and his chart dictates that he is going to suffer from T.B. Mr A does not do anything and cannot do anything lets destiney take its toll and Mr.A dies. The astrologer next door decides to put the reason of his death due to lung damange caused due to T.B and says his karma is bad and hence he died. Now considering the present context. 2. The same astrologer and same Mr.A (lets consider for the sake of arugment) is living today by today I mean the following Paramters that are same for the sake of arugment a) Mr. A is alive b) Our good astrologer friend is also alive. c) Mr. A has the same chart which points to lung problems (lets consider in this case Mr. A did not die in the past) d) Mr. A has accuried T.B as mentioned by the astrologer. Parameters that have changed a) Development of Medicience and Technology b)Cure for T.B d)Positive appraoch to health care. Now in the limelight of the new changes in medicine and technology Mr.A gets treated and does not die. HOW??? Practicallly speaking the chart indicates his death by T.B but apprently he took the intiaitive to cure himself through medication bringing about Human free will in action and his life is saved. The Critic would argue: The critic to this analogy would argue perhaps his logetivity was high. But the question that one faces his. In the old times if Mr.A had T.B and no medicine Mr.A would die weather or not longetivity was high or low. T.B kills but in the present context Mr.A has mediciene and T.B did NOT KILL!! Further extending this argument and generalzing the analogy. Say in the olden times, Mr.A developed T.B (since he had the combo for this) but say in the present time Mr.A is working in a highly reputed governement firm, which wants its emoployess to have check up every 6 months (like blood test and chest x-ray). Mr.A(in mordern times) goes for his blood test and the Dr.Notices ssomething unusual (high lympocytes in the blood) and high white blood cells which a rapid sedimention rate. So the Dr. Asks Mr.A to go for sputum test which revels the T.B germs and Mr.A takes medication before anything happens to him (so there are no traces of any T.B in the chest like marks). Hence Mr.A can claim that he was going to have T.B but with prevention he prevent T.B and never got it. So what does the astrologer have to say in this regards??? I can give you further subextensions of such analogies??Though I would love to hear how one would reason it out since if its astrology there is always a way to reason out for and against the motion hoping for ur reponse Umeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 SARVAM GYANANANDAMAYAM JAGAT AUM GURUBYO NAMAH Dear Umeet, Hope you won't mind me answering this. Sages have identified and explained the following: 1.Concept of time and space. 2.Existence of planets and solar system. 3.Celestial and terrestrial relationships. All these were possible to them because of revelations which resulted out of tapas, surrender of AK and complete faith in antaryami. Today we have identified the exisence of solar system with our modern equipments. This is only an acknowledgement of what was revealed to us by the sages. We have yet to fully understand the other two. Revelations were possible to the sages, because of favourable planetary combinations of the yuga concerned. Change of yuga is part and parcel of kala dharma. Any event is born in time, lives in time and dies in time. Measurable time is caused by the movement of planets. When revelation to sages is attributable to movement of planets then scientific developments are also attributable to movement of planets. It is the Lord Mahakala who is unmeasurable and is undying and is sakshi to the events of all yugas. Have no doubt in the words of the sages. If you are not in a position to understand certain slokhas or principles then pray fervently for revelation. Remember we are still only in the stage of acknowledging the principles enunciated by sages. We have little in possession. We have no complete knowledge of what we have. But we should have complete faith in Antaryami who is all merciful and kind to all the seekers who are sincere in knocking at his doors. Chant Hare Rama Krishna with complete faith. Best wishes. Astrologically yours, psramanrayanan Go down memory lane. Revisit the cool times. Reconnect with old friends! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 |Vyam Vyasadevaaya Namah|Dear Umeet, Not everyone who was affected with TB died in the ancient times, but no doubt a HIGH number did, and some didn't (those who were lucky). What does this tell us? - The blessings of Jupiter/Venus in the form of Guru or Medicine/Mrityunjaya mantra have become more prevailent in these times to counter such diseases, which is actually caused by Mars and Rahu. YES the chart does indicate whether the above blessings are there. Now take Mr. A - his chart will not indicates such blessings. Take Mr. A's present equivalent - he's getting such blessings, and it can be clearly seen in the chart - the two charts are not the same, they can't be just to suit your theory. How about the case of diseases today which go unseen and one fine day the person dies without warning? - yes it happens, even today - in such cases the blessings are not there. So to be blunt - this method of thinking doesn't work. Best wishesVisti---Sri Jagannath Center: http://.orgBhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgiTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org - planck12 vedic astrology Saturday, August 09, 2003 12:52 AM [vedic astrology] Dear Visiti Ji Namaste, I was following your discussion closely. I have a few doubts. I will try to create some analogical situations and I would really appreciate your opinion on the same. 1. Say Mr.A is born a 100 year back in time from today and his chart dictates that he is going to suffer from T.B. Mr A does not do anything and cannot do anything lets destiney take its toll and Mr.A dies. The astrologer next door decides to put the reason of his death due to lung damange caused due to T.B and says his karma is bad and hence he died. Now considering the present context. 2. The same astrologer and same Mr.A (lets consider for the sake of arugment) is living today by today I mean the following Paramters that are same for the sake of arugment a) Mr. A is aliveb) Our good astrologer friend is also alive. c) Mr. A has the same chart which points to lung problems (lets consider in this case Mr. A did not die in the past) d) Mr. A has accuried T.B as mentioned by the astrologer. Parameters that have changeda) Development of Medicience and Technologyb)Cure for T.Bd)Positive appraoch to health care. Now in the limelight of the new changes in medicine and technology Mr.A gets treated and does not die. HOW??? Practicallly speaking the chart indicates his death by T.B but apprently he took the intiaitive to cure himself through medication bringing about Human free will in action and his life is saved. The Critic would argue:The critic to this analogy would argue perhaps his logetivity was high. But the question that one faces his. In the old times if Mr.A had T.B and no medicine Mr.A would die weather or not longetivity was high or low. T.B kills but in the present context Mr.A has mediciene and T.B did NOT KILL!! Further extending this argument and generalzing the analogy. Say in the olden times, Mr.A developed T.B (since he had the combo for this) but say in the present time Mr.A is working in a highly reputed governement firm, which wants its emoployess to have check up every 6 months (like blood test and chest x-ray). Mr.A(in mordern times) goes for his blood test and the Dr.Notices ssomething unusual (high lympocytes in the blood) and high white blood cells which a rapid sedimention rate. So the Dr. Asks Mr.A to go for sputum test which revels the T.B germs and Mr.A takes medication before anything happens to him (so there are no traces of any T.B in the chest like marks). Hence Mr.A can claim that he was going to have T.B but with prevention he prevent T.B and never got it. So what does the astrologer have to say in this regards???I can give you further subextensions of such analogies??Though I would love to hear how one would reason it out since if its astrology there is always a way to reason out for and against the motion :)hoping for ur reponseUmeetArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 Namaste Listmembers, Dear Umeet, I agree with the replies given by Gurus, but to add yet another perspective to your query... Long before I had even heard of Jyotish, my experiences as a nurse taught me that no amount of medical intervention, quality or quantity, can save a life when their time is up. Lay folk seem to have the misconception that our medical and technological advances can ensure longevity. The more I witnessed the greater the awareness that utimately ALL is in God's hands. Love, Ann. p.s to site your example; TB is currently enjoying a resurgence. The little suckers have mutated and a cure is yet to be found for this newest strain. - planck12 vedic astrology Saturday, August 09, 2003 8:52 AM [vedic astrology] Dear Visiti Ji Namaste, I was following your discussion closely. I have a few doubts. I will try to create some analogical situations and I would really appreciate your opinion on the same. 1. Say Mr.A is born a 100 year back in time from today and his chart dictates that he is going to suffer from T.B. Mr A does not do anything and cannot do anything lets destiney take its toll and Mr.A dies. The astrologer next door decides to put the reason of his death due to lung damange caused due to T.B and says his karma is bad and hence he died. Now considering the present context. 2. The same astrologer and same Mr.A (lets consider for the sake of arugment) is living today by today I mean the following Paramters that are same for the sake of arugment a) Mr. A is aliveb) Our good astrologer friend is also alive. c) Mr. A has the same chart which points to lung problems (lets consider in this case Mr. A did not die in the past) d) Mr. A has accuried T.B as mentioned by the astrologer. Parameters that have changeda) Development of Medicience and Technologyb)Cure for T.Bd)Positive appraoch to health care. Now in the limelight of the new changes in medicine and technology Mr.A gets treated and does not die. HOW??? Practicallly speaking the chart indicates his death by T.B but apprently he took the intiaitive to cure himself through medication bringing about Human free will in action and his life is saved. The Critic would argue:The critic to this analogy would argue perhaps his logetivity was high. But the question that one faces his. In the old times if Mr.A had T.B and no medicine Mr.A would die weather or not longetivity was high or low. T.B kills but in the present context Mr.A has mediciene and T.B did NOT KILL!! Further extending this argument and generalzing the analogy. Say in the olden times, Mr.A developed T.B (since he had the combo for this) but say in the present time Mr.A is working in a highly reputed governement firm, which wants its emoployess to have check up every 6 months (like blood test and chest x-ray). Mr.A(in mordern times) goes for his blood test and the Dr.Notices ssomething unusual (high lympocytes in the blood) and high white blood cells which a rapid sedimention rate. So the Dr. Asks Mr.A to go for sputum test which revels the T.B germs and Mr.A takes medication before anything happens to him (so there are no traces of any T.B in the chest like marks). Hence Mr.A can claim that he was going to have T.B but with prevention he prevent T.B and never got it. So what does the astrologer have to say in this regards???I can give you further subextensions of such analogies??Though I would love to hear how one would reason it out since if its astrology there is always a way to reason out for and against the motion :)hoping for ur reponseUmeetArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 Dear Ann, See the point of my example tries to prove itself over and over again. Just a matter of looking into it. U have accepted the role of God in this game. Astrology dictates vice versa that the death is decided by planets and that remedies of such are wearing stones and stuff like that. My only question in wrap up this disccsuion is the following. "We consider astrology as a divine science, infact we say and use it to overtake the work of God at times too, knowling or unknolwing, this cannot be denied". I also accept that the rashis and sages who gave us this tool had divine connection with God on a very different plane of thinking. But what Im trying to rationalise is, the fact that there are many other faiths. Christianity, Islam, Buddhits and many other. I am sure the sages and the Saint and the Prophets who created their respective faiths and religions also had divine connection with God at a higher level. Then HOW come they did not talk about astrology in their books of faith in their religious teaching. I would be a good idea if a treatise was written in every faith reading the importance of astrology. I mean every faith does talk about God being one. Though there are some aspects in every religion that differ. But astrology being accepted and known at that time was the only single tool to do and read future and change and read destinies. I would have made sense that the Saint of every faith and religion included this in their teachings so that people of every caste and creed could learn this art of predicting death and future. Im sure you would have come across the teaching of buddha. And even infact in the Geeta I have not directly come across a reference to use astrology for any purpose. So how does one rational out this argument. Dont you think we turn to astrology because of that fact that faith in God takes us a long time and the results fom God are uncertain too and hence human nature has been to beat uncertaninty and hence this turn. I am just trying to rational out the reason as to why Prophets and Saints of infact all religions did not include astrology in their teachings. Ofcourse like I said there are things in every religion that differ. But astrology being the only single tool of though I think a thought on it in religious books would be very much needed for people to realate to the boundaries of God and humans Waiting for your response on this thanx regards Umeet vedic astrology, "Ann Murphy" <evie@r...> wrote: > Namaste Listmembers, > Dear Umeet, > I agree with the replies given by Gurus, but to add yet another perspective to your query... > Long before I had even heard of Jyotish, my experiences as a nurse taught me that no amount of medical intervention, quality or quantity, can save a life when their time is up. > Lay folk seem to have the misconception that our medical and technological advances can ensure longevity. > The more I witnessed the greater the awareness that utimately ALL is in God's hands. > Love, Ann. > p.s to site your example; TB is currently enjoying a resurgence. The little suckers have mutated and a cure is yet to be found for this newest strain. > - > planck12 > vedic astrology > Saturday, August 09, 2003 8:52 AM > [vedic astrology] Dear Visiti Ji > > > Namaste, > I was following your discussion closely. I have a few doubts. I will > try to create some analogical situations and I would really > appreciate your opinion on the same. > > 1. Say Mr.A is born a 100 year back in time from today and his chart > dictates that he is going to suffer from T.B. Mr A does not do > anything and cannot do anything lets destiney take its toll and Mr.A > dies. The astrologer next door decides to put the reason of his death > due to lung damange caused due to T.B and says his karma is bad and > hence he died. > > Now considering the present context. > > 2. The same astrologer and same Mr.A (lets consider for the sake of > arugment) is living today by today I mean the following > > Paramters that are same for the sake of arugment > > a) Mr. A is alive > b) Our good astrologer friend is also alive. > c) Mr. A has the same chart which points to lung problems (lets > consider in this case Mr. A did not die in the past) > d) Mr. A has accuried T.B as mentioned by the astrologer. > > Parameters that have changed > > a) Development of Medicience and Technology > b)Cure for T.B > d)Positive appraoch to health care. > > Now in the limelight of the new changes in medicine and technology > Mr.A gets treated and does not die. HOW??? Practicallly speaking the > chart indicates his death by T.B but apprently he took the intiaitive > to cure himself through medication bringing about Human free will in > action and his life is saved. > > > The Critic would argue: > > The critic to this analogy would argue perhaps his logetivity was > high. But the question that one faces his. In the old times if Mr.A > had T.B and no medicine Mr.A would die weather or not longetivity was > high or low. T.B kills but in the present context Mr.A has mediciene > and T.B did NOT KILL!! > > Further extending this argument and generalzing the analogy. Say in > the olden times, Mr.A developed T.B (since he had the combo for this) > but say in the present time Mr.A is working in a highly reputed > governement firm, which wants its emoployess to have check up every 6 > months (like blood test and chest x-ray). Mr.A(in mordern times) goes > for his blood test and the Dr.Notices ssomething unusual (high > lympocytes in the blood) and high white blood cells which a rapid > sedimention rate. So the Dr. Asks Mr.A to go for sputum test which > revels the T.B germs and Mr.A takes medication before anything > happens to him (so there are no traces of any T.B in the chest like > marks). Hence Mr.A can claim that he was going to have T.B but with > prevention he prevent T.B and never got it. > > So what does the astrologer have to say in this regards??? > > I can give you further subextensions of such analogies??Though I > would love to hear how one would reason it out since if its astrology > there is always a way to reason out for and against the motion > > hoping for ur reponse > Umeet > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 Hare Rama Krishna Dear Umeet, If I may butt in with a few cents worth.There is no such thing as circumventing God. Even the planetary deities have an atma and Paramatma within them.In fact in the Gita Krishna does say that although people pray to different entities the fruit of the prayers are granted only by Him. The first lesson that we learn from the Srimad Bhagavad Geetha is that God or Krishna has nothing to do with our sufferings. All that we go through is Karma or the results of our own actions. Of course when we learn our lessons in life and approach Him, He very mercifully takes care of us(this is also mentioned in the Gita). We as atmas enter into the world at a specific moment and the planetary arrangement at that point fully reflects the karma that we bring to this world and are destined to experience.So the planets are designated by God to enforce this karma. So an analogy will be that the constitution has already been written and the President signs the various laws, but he does not enforce them personally.He designates the police, army and the courts to handle the cases where the law has been broken. So likewise God has set the laws of nature and if we foolishly break or mess around those laws, we accumulate bad Karma and the enforcer is nature through the planetary forces.But the planetary forces and nature are certainly subservient to God and as a result prayers do work.Consider that like a presidential pardon after an appeal for mercy. Now as far as your second point goes, Astrology may not be mentioned in the Bagavad Gita, but it certainly is a VedaAnga or limb of the Vedas.In fact every Astrologer or Daivaygna has to be very conversant with the Srimad Bagavad Gita, otherwise he will not understand the intricacies of action or Karma.Astrology is a tool provided by God so that we as living entities may use our free-will with proper guidance.(you really have to take on some serious reading to understand this science---a good start will be the lessons in Sri Jagannath group.). All your questions will be answered. The different religions of the world are certainly revealed knowledge i.e they have their source in God.But consider this analogy. If a Professor of Finance teaches the undergraduate classes and the graduate and PhD course with same depth, will it work? A course should also take into account the capacity and state of its target audience. An undergraduate student will certainly have a lower capacity to understand in comparison to a Graduate or PhD student. Similarly, different faiths were taught to different groups of people with very different capacities to absorb and understand.Although the ultimate goal was to teach the science of God, the Divine Teacher did elaborate in Sanatana Dharma because the audience was Sattvic. In other cases the teachings were more concise because the audience was not that advanced in their knowledge or capacity to absorb. Finally, we are trying to rationalize a topic which was passed down to us by Mental Giants. Here if I am not able to understand its because my senses are defective and not because the teachings are.By practicing astrology we are by no means overriding God, we are only attempting to use the free will granted to us in the proper manner. We use astrology because we know that our defective senses are incapable of guiding us in the right direction. There are many saints who have completely surrendered to Krishna and they will be guided by Him.Please read the introductory article authored by Sanjay ji in www.srath.com. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Please chant Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare and be Happy!planck12 <planck12 > wrote: Dear Ann, See the point of my example tries to prove itself over and over again. Just a matter of looking into it. U have accepted the role of God in this game. Astrology dictates vice versa that the death is decided by planets and that remedies of such are wearing stones and stuff like that. My only question in wrap up this disccsuion is the following. "We consider astrology as a divine science, infact we say and use it to overtake the work of God at times too, knowling or unknolwing, this cannot be denied". I also accept that the rashis and sages who gave us this tool had divine connection with God on a very different plane of thinking. But what Im trying to rationalise is, the fact that there are many other faiths. Christianity, Islam, Buddhits and many other. I am sure the sages and the Saint and the Prophets who created their respective faiths and religions also had divine connection with God at a higher level. Then HOW come they did not talk about astrology in their books of faith in their religious teaching. I would be a good idea if a treatise was written in every faith reading the importance of astrology. I mean every faith does talk about God being one. Though there are some aspects in every religion that differ. But astrology being accepted and known at that time was the only single tool to do and read future and change and read destinies. I would have made sense that the Saint of every faith and religion included this in their teachings so that people of every caste and creed could learn this art of predicting death and future. Im sure you would have come across the teaching of buddha. And even infact in the Geeta I have not directly come across a reference to use astrology for any purpose. So how does one rational out this argument. Dont you think we turn to astrology because of that fact that faith in God takes us a long time and the results fom God are uncertain too and hence human nature has been to beat uncertaninty and hence this turn. I am just trying to rational out the reason as to why Prophets and Saints of infact all religions did not include astrology in their teachings. Ofcourse like I said there are things in every religion that differ. But astrology being the only single tool of though I think a thought on it in religious books would be very much needed for people to realate to the boundaries of God and humans Waiting for your response on this thanx regardsUmeet--- In vedic astrology, "Ann Murphy" <evie@r...> wrote:> Namaste Listmembers,> Dear Umeet,> I agree with the replies given by Gurus, but to add yet another perspective to your query...> Long before I had even heard of Jyotish, my experiences as a nurse taught me that no amount of medical intervention, quality or quantity, can save a life when their time is up.> Lay folk seem to have the misconception that our medical and technological advances can ensure longevity.> The more I witnessed the greater the awareness that utimately ALL is in God's hands.> Love, Ann.> p.s to site your example; TB is currently enjoying a resurgence. The little suckers have mutated and a cure is yet to be found for this newest strain.> ----- Original Message ----- > planck12 > To: vedic astrology > Saturday, August 09, 2003 8:52 AM> [vedic astrology] Dear Visiti Ji> > > Namaste, > I was following your discussion closely. I have a few doubts. I will > try to create some analogical situations and I would really > appreciate your opinion on the same. > > 1. Say Mr.A is born a 100 year back in time from today and his chart > dictates that he is going to suffer from T.B. Mr A does not do > anything and cannot do anything lets destiney take its toll and Mr.A > dies. The astrologer next door decides to put the reason of his death > due to lung damange caused due to T.B and says his karma is bad and > hence he died. > > Now considering the present context. > > 2. The same astrologer and same Mr.A (lets consider for the sake of > arugment) is living today by today I mean the following > > Paramters that are same for the sake of arugment > > a) Mr. A is alive> b) Our good astrologer friend is also alive. > c) Mr. A has the same chart which points to lung problems (lets > consider in this case Mr. A did not die in the past) > d) Mr. A has accuried T.B as mentioned by the astrologer. > > Parameters that have changed> > a) Development of Medicience and Technology> b)Cure for T.B> d)Positive appraoch to health care. > > Now in the limelight of the new changes in medicine and technology > Mr.A gets treated and does not die. HOW??? Practicallly speaking the > chart indicates his death by T.B but apprently he took the intiaitive > to cure himself through medication bringing about Human free will in > action and his life is saved. > > > The Critic would argue:> > The critic to this analogy would argue perhaps his logetivity was > high. But the question that one faces his. In the old times if Mr.A > had T.B and no medicine Mr.A would die weather or not longetivity was > high or low. T.B kills but in the present context Mr.A has mediciene > and T.B did NOT KILL!! > > Further extending this argument and generalzing the analogy. Say in > the olden times, Mr.A developed T.B (since he had the combo for this) > but say in the present time Mr.A is working in a highly reputed > governement firm, which wants its emoployess to have check up every 6 > months (like blood test and chest x-ray). Mr.A(in mordern times) goes > for his blood test and the Dr.Notices ssomething unusual (high > lympocytes in the blood) and high white blood cells which a rapid > sedimention rate. So the Dr. Asks Mr.A to go for sputum test which > revels the T.B germs and Mr.A takes medication before anything > happens to him (so there are no traces of any T.B in the chest like > marks). Hence Mr.A can claim that he was going to have T.B but with > prevention he prevent T.B and never got it. > > So what does the astrologer have to say in this regards???> > I can give you further subextensions of such analogies??Though I > would love to hear how one would reason it out since if its astrology > there is always a way to reason out for and against the motion > > hoping for ur reponse> Umeet> > > > Sponsor > > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology> > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > Terms of Service.Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 ~ Om Namah Shivaya ~ Dear Ann, I guess, you haven't read the chapter of Arudha Padas in Vedic Astrology - An Integrated Approach by Narshima Rao. A good astrologer is one who can see the points from three prespectives (Lagna, Arudha Pada, Bhava Arudhas). If you carefully study Arudha Padas and Bhava Arudhas, you will come to know. In these cases, the point of refence is taken from society and how the individual thinks and how the society thinks about individual. So, when times change as you talked about or say in different regions say a most advanced country like USA and take example of some poor country, thinking are different. So an astrologer at that place will tell you accordingly. Astrology is a science in which you had to consider many things including time, place etc.. I guess a thorough reading on the chapter Arudha padas will clear most of your doubts. Sorry If I mentioned anything wrong. Kind regards, Neeraj Gupta --- Ann Murphy <evie wrote: > Namaste Listmembers, > Dear Umeet, > I agree with the replies given by > Gurus, but to add yet another perspective to your > query... > Long before I had even heard of Jyotish, my > experiences as a nurse taught me that no amount of > medical intervention, quality or quantity, can save > a life when their time is up. > Lay folk seem to have the misconception that our > medical and technological advances can ensure > longevity. > The more I witnessed the greater the awareness > that utimately ALL is in God's hands. > Love, Ann. > p.s to site your example; TB is currently enjoying a > resurgence. The little suckers have mutated and a > cure is yet to be found for this newest strain. > - > planck12 > vedic astrology > Saturday, August 09, 2003 8:52 AM > [vedic astrology] Dear Visiti Ji > > > Namaste, > I was following your discussion closely. I have a > few doubts. I will > try to create some analogical situations and I > would really > appreciate your opinion on the same. > > 1. Say Mr.A is born a 100 year back in time from > today and his chart > dictates that he is going to suffer from T.B. Mr A > does not do > anything and cannot do anything lets destiney take > its toll and Mr.A > dies. The astrologer next door decides to put the > reason of his death > due to lung damange caused due to T.B and says his > karma is bad and > hence he died. > > Now considering the present context. > > 2. The same astrologer and same Mr.A (lets > consider for the sake of > arugment) is living today by today I mean the > following > > Paramters that are same for the sake of arugment > > a) Mr. A is alive > b) Our good astrologer friend is also alive. > c) Mr. A has the same chart which points to lung > problems (lets > consider in this case Mr. A did not die in the > past) > d) Mr. A has accuried T.B as mentioned by the > astrologer. > > Parameters that have changed > > a) Development of Medicience and Technology > b)Cure for T.B > d)Positive appraoch to health care. > > Now in the limelight of the new changes in > medicine and technology > Mr.A gets treated and does not die. HOW??? > Practicallly speaking the > chart indicates his death by T.B but apprently he > took the intiaitive > to cure himself through medication bringing about > Human free will in > action and his life is saved. > > > The Critic would argue: > > The critic to this analogy would argue perhaps his > logetivity was > high. But the question that one faces his. In the > old times if Mr.A > had T.B and no medicine Mr.A would die weather or > not longetivity was > high or low. T.B kills but in the present context > Mr.A has mediciene > and T.B did NOT KILL!! > > Further extending this argument and generalzing > the analogy. Say in > the olden times, Mr.A developed T.B (since he had > the combo for this) > but say in the present time Mr.A is working in a > highly reputed > governement firm, which wants its emoployess to > have check up every 6 > months (like blood test and chest x-ray). Mr.A(in > mordern times) goes > for his blood test and the Dr.Notices ssomething > unusual (high > lympocytes in the blood) and high white blood > cells which a rapid > sedimention rate. So the Dr. Asks Mr.A to go for > sputum test which > revels the T.B germs and Mr.A takes medication > before anything > happens to him (so there are no traces of any T.B > in the chest like > marks). Hence Mr.A can claim that he was going to > have T.B but with > prevention he prevent T.B and never got it. > > So what does the astrologer have to say in this > regards??? > > I can give you further subextensions of such > analogies??Though I > would love to hear how one would reason it out > since if its astrology > there is always a way to reason out for and > against the motion > > hoping for ur reponse > Umeet > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > Archives: > vedic astrology > > Group info: > vedic astrology/info.html > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri > Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > Terms of Service. > ===== http://www.geocities.com/master_minds_india/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2003 Report Share Posted August 10, 2003 Namaste Listmembers, Dear Neeraj, You guessed right!. I haven't read any of the books by Sanjay or Narasimha or had access to CD's, Jyotish News,Transcripts etc. I have my nose pressed against the window, but can't come in to buy!. I struggle financially to afford internet access. I am currently pondering Visti's rather profound statement "when the cause of poverty becomes the source of wealth" Last night I began thinking about the very issue you raised, especially in relation to how "we" as a group interact across fairly cavernous cultural divides eg: Westerners seem brash and demanding when asking questions, which can be construed as a lack of good manners in comparison to their Hindu contemporaries. Learning styles are very different...broad sweep here...Indians are inclined to listen and contemplate, Westerners want answers or outcomes that are open to criticism or deconstruction...and I'll have that NOW, please!. To remain acutely aware of this situation is no mean feat. So, a big pat on the back to all for tolerance and patience Warm Regards, Ann. - Neeraj Gupta vedic astrology Sunday, August 10, 2003 2:02 PM Re: [vedic astrology] Dear Visiti Ji ~ Om Namah Shivaya ~Dear Ann,I guess, you haven't read the chapter of Arudha Padasin Vedic Astrology - An Integrated Approach byNarshima Rao. A good astrologer is one who can see the points fromthree prespectives (Lagna, Arudha Pada, BhavaArudhas). If you carefully study Arudha Padas and Bhava Arudhas,you will come to know. In these cases, the point ofrefence is taken from society and how the individualthinks and how the society thinks about individual.So, when times change as you talked about or say indifferent regions say a most advanced country like USAand take example of some poor country, thinking aredifferent. So an astrologer at that place will tellyou accordingly. Astrology is a science in which youhad to consider many things including time, placeetc..I guess a thorough reading on the chapter Arudha padaswill clear most of your doubts.Sorry If I mentioned anything wrong.Kind regards,Neeraj Gupta--- Ann Murphy <evie (AT) ruralnet (DOT) net.au> wrote:> Namaste Listmembers,> Dear Umeet,> I agree with the replies given by> Gurus, but to add yet another perspective to your> query...> Long before I had even heard of Jyotish, my> experiences as a nurse taught me that no amount of> medical intervention, quality or quantity, can save> a life when their time is up.> Lay folk seem to have the misconception that our> medical and technological advances can ensure> longevity.> The more I witnessed the greater the awareness> that utimately ALL is in God's hands.> Love, Ann.> p.s to site your example; TB is currently enjoying a> resurgence. The little suckers have mutated and a> cure is yet to be found for this newest strain.> - > planck12 > vedic astrology > Saturday, August 09, 2003 8:52 AM> [vedic astrology] Dear Visiti Ji> > > Namaste, > I was following your discussion closely. I have a> few doubts. I will > try to create some analogical situations and I> would really > appreciate your opinion on the same. > > 1. Say Mr.A is born a 100 year back in time from> today and his chart > dictates that he is going to suffer from T.B. Mr A> does not do > anything and cannot do anything lets destiney take> its toll and Mr.A > dies. The astrologer next door decides to put the> reason of his death > due to lung damange caused due to T.B and says his> karma is bad and > hence he died. > > Now considering the present context. > > 2. The same astrologer and same Mr.A (lets> consider for the sake of > arugment) is living today by today I mean the> following > > Paramters that are same for the sake of arugment > > a) Mr. A is alive> b) Our good astrologer friend is also alive. > c) Mr. A has the same chart which points to lung> problems (lets > consider in this case Mr. A did not die in the> past) > d) Mr. A has accuried T.B as mentioned by the> astrologer. > > Parameters that have changed> > a) Development of Medicience and Technology> b)Cure for T.B> d)Positive appraoch to health care. > > Now in the limelight of the new changes in> medicine and technology > Mr.A gets treated and does not die. HOW???> Practicallly speaking the > chart indicates his death by T.B but apprently he> took the intiaitive > to cure himself through medication bringing about> Human free will in > action and his life is saved. > > > The Critic would argue:> > The critic to this analogy would argue perhaps his> logetivity was > high. But the question that one faces his. In the> old times if Mr.A > had T.B and no medicine Mr.A would die weather or> not longetivity was > high or low. T.B kills but in the present context> Mr.A has mediciene > and T.B did NOT KILL!! > > Further extending this argument and generalzing> the analogy. Say in > the olden times, Mr.A developed T.B (since he had> the combo for this) > but say in the present time Mr.A is working in a> highly reputed > governement firm, which wants its emoployess to> have check up every 6 > months (like blood test and chest x-ray). Mr.A(in> mordern times) goes > for his blood test and the Dr.Notices ssomething> unusual (high > lympocytes in the blood) and high white blood> cells which a rapid > sedimention rate. So the Dr. Asks Mr.A to go for> sputum test which > revels the T.B germs and Mr.A takes medication> before anything > happens to him (so there are no traces of any T.B> in the chest like > marks). Hence Mr.A can claim that he was going to> have T.B but with > prevention he prevent T.B and never got it. > > So what does the astrologer have to say in this> regards???> > I can give you further subextensions of such> analogies??Though I > would love to hear how one would reason it out> since if its astrology > there is always a way to reason out for and> against the motion > > hoping for ur reponse> Umeet> > > > Sponsor > > > > > > Archives:> vedic astrology> > Group info:>vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to> vedic astrology-> > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri> Krishnaarpanamastu || > > Your use of is subject to the > Terms of Service. > =====http://www.geocities.com/master_minds_india/Do you ? SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design softwareArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... 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Guest guest Posted August 10, 2003 Report Share Posted August 10, 2003 ~ Om Namah Shivaya ~ Dear Ann, Thanks for replying. I just wrote whatever flowed through my mind. Also I was a bit like you 3 years back when my time was going very good in all aspects, relationships, at home, job, money everything was too good. I used to tell my juniors. Astrology or Luck is nothing, everything is in our hands, I work hard, I plan everything, so I am successful. I was very confident or say overconfident. But how very wrong I was. I used to critcize people who belive in luck or astrology. But one thing I had learnt in last 3 years. NEVER CRITICZE ANYBODY OR ANYTHING UNTIL AND UNLESS YOU DON'T DO A THOROUGH STUDY ABOUT IT. So, When things changed and my time was low. I had lost many things I was proud of. Slowly I began to have interest in astrology. Read some cheap books (as i didn't knew the good books names) but couldn't get knowledge in proper way. Then one day I happened to be on internet and found this group. Somebody suggested me books. I began reading it. Slowly slowly understanding it. Even senior members and gurus corrected me at times. They even suggested me remedies for my problems. I would like to thank everybody in the group for their continuous support in my learning process. I am still in learning phase, now I see charts of my family, my friends and other people whom I know and try to understand. You can also go ahead and start with some basics. Then point out the errors. I hope everybody would accept it. Kind regards, Neeraj Gupta --- Ann Murphy <evie wrote: > Namaste Listmembers, > > Dear Neeraj, > You guessed right!. > I haven't read any of the books by Sanjay or > Narasimha or had access to CD's, Jyotish > News,Transcripts etc. I have my nose pressed against > the window, but can't come in to buy!. I struggle > financially to afford internet access. > I am currently pondering Visti's rather profound > statement "when the cause of poverty becomes the > source of wealth" > Last night I began thinking about the very issue > you raised, especially in relation to how "we" as a > group interact across fairly cavernous cultural > divides eg: Westerners seem brash and demanding when > asking questions, which can be construed as a lack > of good manners in comparison to their Hindu > contemporaries. Learning styles are very > different...broad sweep here...Indians are inclined > to listen and contemplate, Westerners want answers > or outcomes that are open to criticism or > deconstruction...and I'll have that NOW, please!. > To remain acutely aware of this situation is no > mean feat. > So, a big pat on the back to all for tolerance > and patience > Warm Regards, > Ann. > - > Neeraj Gupta > vedic astrology > Sunday, August 10, 2003 2:02 PM > Re: [vedic astrology] Dear Visiti Ji > > > ~ Om Namah Shivaya ~ > > Dear Ann, > > I guess, you haven't read the chapter of Arudha > Padas > in Vedic Astrology - An Integrated Approach by > Narshima Rao. > > A good astrologer is one who can see the points > from > three prespectives (Lagna, Arudha Pada, Bhava > Arudhas). > > If you carefully study Arudha Padas and Bhava > Arudhas, > you will come to know. In these cases, the point > of > refence is taken from society and how the > individual > thinks and how the society thinks about > individual. > > So, when times change as you talked about or say > in > different regions say a most advanced country like > USA > and take example of some poor country, thinking > are > different. So an astrologer at that place will > tell > you accordingly. Astrology is a science in which > you > had to consider many things including time, place > etc.. > > I guess a thorough reading on the chapter Arudha > padas > will clear most of your doubts. > > Sorry If I mentioned anything wrong. > > Kind regards, > > Neeraj Gupta > --- Ann Murphy <evie wrote: > > Namaste Listmembers, > > Dear Umeet, > > I agree with the replies given > by > > Gurus, but to add yet another perspective to > your > > query... > > Long before I had even heard of Jyotish, my > > experiences as a nurse taught me that no amount > of > > medical intervention, quality or quantity, can > save > > a life when their time is up. > > Lay folk seem to have the misconception that > our > > medical and technological advances can ensure > > longevity. > > The more I witnessed the greater the > awareness > > that utimately ALL is in God's hands. > > Love, Ann. > > p.s to site your example; TB is currently > enjoying a > > resurgence. The little suckers have mutated and > a > > cure is yet to be found for this newest strain. > > - > > planck12 > > vedic astrology > > Saturday, August 09, 2003 8:52 AM > > [vedic astrology] Dear Visiti Ji > > > > > > Namaste, > > I was following your discussion closely. I > have a > > few doubts. I will > > try to create some analogical situations and I > > would really > > appreciate your opinion on the same. > > > > 1. Say Mr.A is born a 100 year back in time > from > > today and his chart > > dictates that he is going to suffer from T.B. > Mr A > > does not do > > anything and cannot do anything lets destiney > take > > its toll and Mr.A > > dies. The astrologer next door decides to put > the > > reason of his death > > due to lung damange caused due to T.B and says > his > > karma is bad and > > hence he died. > > > > Now considering the present context. > > > > 2. The same astrologer and same Mr.A (lets > > consider for the sake of > > arugment) is living today by today I mean the > > following > > > > Paramters that are same for the sake of > arugment > > > > a) Mr. A is alive > > b) Our good astrologer friend is also alive. > > c) Mr. A has the same chart which points to > lung > > problems (lets > > consider in this case Mr. A did not die in the > > past) > > d) Mr. A has accuried T.B as mentioned by the > > astrologer. > > > > Parameters that have changed > > > > a) Development of Medicience and Technology > > b)Cure for T.B > > d)Positive appraoch to health care. > > > > Now in the limelight of the new changes in > > medicine and technology > > Mr.A gets treated and does not die. HOW??? > > Practicallly speaking the > > chart indicates his death by T.B but apprently > he > > took the intiaitive > > to cure himself through medication bringing > about > > Human free will in > > action and his life is saved. > > > > > > The Critic would argue: > > > > The critic to this analogy would argue perhaps > his > > logetivity was > > high. But the question that one faces his. In > the > > old times if Mr.A > > had T.B and no medicine Mr.A would die weather > or > > not longetivity was > > high or low. T.B kills but in the present > context > > Mr.A has mediciene > > and T.B did NOT KILL!! > > > > Further extending this argument and > generalzing > > the analogy. Say in > > the olden times, Mr.A developed T.B (since he > had > > the combo for this) > === message truncated === ===== http://www.geocities.com/master_minds_india/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2003 Report Share Posted August 10, 2003 Dear Ann, Let me attempt to assist you in understand Visti Ji statement: "When the cause of poverty becomes the source of wealth" The meaning is : "When the source of poverty becomes a source of wealth, then one will never be poor." As a matter of fact, I did asked the very same question to him, as you did today and I got the reply from him very quickly. You may refer the message no: 6573 in Achyuta Gurukulam. Now, you have also mentioned the cultural ways of Indian and Western way of learning. I am one of those, who was fortunate enough to have the formal education in both systems, India system first and then Western. My observations are, Respect to the Teacher is most critical in Indian system and may not necessarily be true in other case. Also I have observed in the western system that the teacher should earn the respect rather than by getting it automatically. Let me give an example: "If a peson throws a Dollar on to a begger and another person keeps a quarter(25 cents) into the beggers hand". Think for this situation for a second and you will get the answer. >From the above, what I understood was, everyone should be repsected, in particular the Guru in learning of Devine Science, otherwise the knowledge flow from Guru to Sishya will stop at one point. Whether one likes it or not, but this is what exactly happens, I was tought this when I was very young in India by my grand father, who was also an Astrologer. Opposite are also holds true, the Guru's will and should also give respect to the Sisyas too by giving replies to their ignorant, stupid and annyoing questions, without using harsh language, otherwise, it won't take long time Mother Saraswati decides to leave the Guru leaving him/her with no knowledge. Unfortunately, I can not quote any slokas or any other references for the above as this was taught by my grand father to me by word of mouth. But one day, if I am fortunate enough, I may be able to quote the references for the above too. O.K, the summary is let us balance ourselfs in this learning process and get the maximum from our Guru's, leanrned members and fellow students. With this I will hand over this topic to Guru's and learned memebers and request them to correct me if I am wrong. Regards Rao P.S: Ann, I am publishing this to the entire group not for you so please do not take me wrong for this. vedic astrology, "Ann Murphy" <evie@r...> wrote: > Namaste Listmembers, > > Dear Neeraj, > You guessed right!. > I haven't read any of the books by Sanjay or Narasimha or had access to CD's, Jyotish News,Transcripts etc. I have my nose pressed against the window, but can't come in to buy!. I struggle financially to afford internet access. > I am currently pondering Visti's rather profound statement "when the cause of poverty becomes the source of wealth" > Last night I began thinking about the very issue you raised, especially in relation to how "we" as a group interact across fairly cavernous cultural divides eg: Westerners seem brash and demanding when asking questions, which can be construed as a lack of good manners in comparison to their Hindu contemporaries. Learning styles are very different...broad sweep here...Indians are inclined to listen and contemplate, Westerners want answers or outcomes that are open to criticism or deconstruction...and I'll have that NOW, please!. > To remain acutely aware of this situation is no mean feat. > So, a big pat on the back to all for tolerance and patience > Warm Regards, > Ann. > - > Neeraj Gupta > vedic astrology > Sunday, August 10, 2003 2:02 PM > Re: [vedic astrology] Dear Visiti Ji > > > ~ Om Namah Shivaya ~ > > Dear Ann, > > I guess, you haven't read the chapter of Arudha Padas > in Vedic Astrology - An Integrated Approach by > Narshima Rao. > > A good astrologer is one who can see the points from > three prespectives (Lagna, Arudha Pada, Bhava > Arudhas). > > If you carefully study Arudha Padas and Bhava Arudhas, > you will come to know. In these cases, the point of > refence is taken from society and how the individual > thinks and how the society thinks about individual. > > So, when times change as you talked about or say in > different regions say a most advanced country like USA > and take example of some poor country, thinking are > different. So an astrologer at that place will tell > you accordingly. Astrology is a science in which you > had to consider many things including time, place > etc.. > > I guess a thorough reading on the chapter Arudha padas > will clear most of your doubts. > > Sorry If I mentioned anything wrong. > > Kind regards, > > Neeraj Gupta > --- Ann Murphy <evie@r...> wrote: > > Namaste Listmembers, > > Dear Umeet, > > I agree with the replies given by > > Gurus, but to add yet another perspective to your > > query... > > Long before I had even heard of Jyotish, my > > experiences as a nurse taught me that no amount of > > medical intervention, quality or quantity, can save > > a life when their time is up. > > Lay folk seem to have the misconception that our > > medical and technological advances can ensure > > longevity. > > The more I witnessed the greater the awareness > > that utimately ALL is in God's hands. > > Love, Ann. > > p.s to site your example; TB is currently enjoying a > > resurgence. The little suckers have mutated and a > > cure is yet to be found for this newest strain. > > - > > planck12 > > vedic astrology > > Saturday, August 09, 2003 8:52 AM > > [vedic astrology] Dear Visiti Ji > > > > > > Namaste, > > I was following your discussion closely. I have a > > few doubts. I will > > try to create some analogical situations and I > > would really > > appreciate your opinion on the same. > > > > 1. Say Mr.A is born a 100 year back in time from > > today and his chart > > dictates that he is going to suffer from T.B. Mr A > > does not do > > anything and cannot do anything lets destiney take > > its toll and Mr.A > > dies. The astrologer next door decides to put the > > reason of his death > > due to lung damange caused due to T.B and says his > > karma is bad and > > hence he died. > > > > Now considering the present context. > > > > 2. The same astrologer and same Mr.A (lets > > consider for the sake of > > arugment) is living today by today I mean the > > following > > > > Paramters that are same for the sake of arugment > > > > a) Mr. A is alive > > b) Our good astrologer friend is also alive. > > c) Mr. A has the same chart which points to lung > > problems (lets > > consider in this case Mr. A did not die in the > > past) > > d) Mr. A has accuried T.B as mentioned by the > > astrologer. > > > > Parameters that have changed > > > > a) Development of Medicience and Technology > > b)Cure for T.B > > d)Positive appraoch to health care. > > > > Now in the limelight of the new changes in > > medicine and technology > > Mr.A gets treated and does not die. HOW??? > > Practicallly speaking the > > chart indicates his death by T.B but apprently he > > took the intiaitive > > to cure himself through medication bringing about > > Human free will in > > action and his life is saved. > > > > > > The Critic would argue: > > > > The critic to this analogy would argue perhaps his > > logetivity was > > high. But the question that one faces his. In the > > old times if Mr.A > > had T.B and no medicine Mr.A would die weather or > > not longetivity was > > high or low. T.B kills but in the present context > > Mr.A has mediciene > > and T.B did NOT KILL!! > > > > Further extending this argument and generalzing > > the analogy. Say in > > the olden times, Mr.A developed T.B (since he had > > the combo for this) > > but say in the present time Mr.A is working in a > > highly reputed > > governement firm, which wants its emoployess to > > have check up every 6 > > months (like blood test and chest x-ray). Mr.A(in > > mordern times) goes > > for his blood test and the Dr.Notices ssomething > > unusual (high > > lympocytes in the blood) and high white blood > > cells which a rapid > > sedimention rate. So the Dr. Asks Mr.A to go for > > sputum test which > > revels the T.B germs and Mr.A takes medication > > before anything > > happens to him (so there are no traces of any T.B > > in the chest like > > marks). Hence Mr.A can claim that he was going to > > have T.B but with > > prevention he prevent T.B and never got it. > > > > So what does the astrologer have to say in this > > regards??? > > > > I can give you further subextensions of such > > analogies??Though I > > would love to hear how one would reason it out > > since if its astrology > > there is always a way to reason out for and > > against the motion > > > > hoping for ur reponse > > Umeet > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > Archives: > > vedic astrology > > > > Group info: > > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > > vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri > > Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > ===== > http://www.geocities.com/master_minds_india/ > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2003 Report Share Posted August 10, 2003 || Om namobhagavate mahaamaatsyaaya || Dear Ann, Yes there are a lot of cultural differences and that could cause a lot of ire and misunderstanding. But one needs to be patient, which is the key here. Why ... even people belonging to the same culture get irate and send inflammatory mails!!! I once received an immature mail from one member accusing me of not wanting to share my knowledge, when the fact was that I was so busy that I did not even have time to read mails!! So PATIENCE is the key here. I remember when I started out learning jyotish on my own ... way back in 1987 ... no one to teach ... I used to write long letters to Astrological Magazine and all the authors. No one responded .... not a single reply ... nada, zilch!!! However I did not lose my patience and kept persevering, and then found this list and Narasimha accepted me as his student. I am grateful to him! Finally, I think we all owe a big THANKS to Visti for selflessly and tirelessly answering all our questions. Thank You Visti! BTW, Ann, please send me your Address to me and I shall mail you a copy Of Narasimha's, Sanjayji's books which I have. I dont like the fact that you are unable to buy because of financial problems. Please accept it from me/SJC. We believe in propogating authentic knowledge sincerely to interested and enthused students! Note: These are my copies and I have over-used )) them. Hope its OK with you! Warm Regards Narayan vedic astrology, "Ann Murphy" <evie@r...> wrote: > Namaste Listmembers, > > Dear Neeraj, > You guessed right!. > I haven't read any of the books by Sanjay or Narasimha or had access to CD's, Jyotish News,Transcripts etc. I have my nose pressed against the window, but can't come in to buy!. I struggle financially to afford internet access. > I am currently pondering Visti's rather profound statement "when the cause of poverty becomes the source of wealth" > Last night I began thinking about the very issue you raised, especially in relation to how "we" as a group interact across fairly cavernous cultural divides eg: Westerners seem brash and demanding when asking questions, which can be construed as a lack of good manners in comparison to their Hindu contemporaries. Learning styles are very different...broad sweep here...Indians are inclined to listen and contemplate, Westerners want answers or outcomes that are open to criticism or deconstruction...and I'll have that NOW, please!. > To remain acutely aware of this situation is no mean feat. > So, a big pat on the back to all for tolerance and patience > Warm Regards, > Ann. > - > Neeraj Gupta > vedic astrology > Sunday, August 10, 2003 2:02 PM > Re: [vedic astrology] Dear Visiti Ji > > > ~ Om Namah Shivaya ~ > > Dear Ann, > > I guess, you haven't read the chapter of Arudha Padas > in Vedic Astrology - An Integrated Approach by > Narshima Rao. > > A good astrologer is one who can see the points from > three prespectives (Lagna, Arudha Pada, Bhava > Arudhas). > > If you carefully study Arudha Padas and Bhava Arudhas, > you will come to know. In these cases, the point of > refence is taken from society and how the individual > thinks and how the society thinks about individual. > > So, when times change as you talked about or say in > different regions say a most advanced country like USA > and take example of some poor country, thinking are > different. So an astrologer at that place will tell > you accordingly. Astrology is a science in which you > had to consider many things including time, place > etc.. > > I guess a thorough reading on the chapter Arudha padas > will clear most of your doubts. > > Sorry If I mentioned anything wrong. > > Kind regards, > > Neeraj Gupta > --- Ann Murphy <evie@r...> wrote: > > Namaste Listmembers, > > Dear Umeet, > > I agree with the replies given by > > Gurus, but to add yet another perspective to your > > query... > > Long before I had even heard of Jyotish, my > > experiences as a nurse taught me that no amount of > > medical intervention, quality or quantity, can save > > a life when their time is up. > > Lay folk seem to have the misconception that our > > medical and technological advances can ensure > > longevity. > > The more I witnessed the greater the awareness > > that utimately ALL is in God's hands. > > Love, Ann. > > p.s to site your example; TB is currently enjoying a > > resurgence. The little suckers have mutated and a > > cure is yet to be found for this newest strain. > > - > > planck12 > > vedic astrology > > Saturday, August 09, 2003 8:52 AM > > [vedic astrology] Dear Visiti Ji > > > > > > Namaste, > > I was following your discussion closely. I have a > > few doubts. I will > > try to create some analogical situations and I > > would really > > appreciate your opinion on the same. > > > > 1. Say Mr.A is born a 100 year back in time from > > today and his chart > > dictates that he is going to suffer from T.B. Mr A > > does not do > > anything and cannot do anything lets destiney take > > its toll and Mr.A > > dies. The astrologer next door decides to put the > > reason of his death > > due to lung damange caused due to T.B and says his > > karma is bad and > > hence he died. > > > > Now considering the present context. > > > > 2. The same astrologer and same Mr.A (lets > > consider for the sake of > > arugment) is living today by today I mean the > > following > > > > Paramters that are same for the sake of arugment > > > > a) Mr. A is alive > > b) Our good astrologer friend is also alive. > > c) Mr. A has the same chart which points to lung > > problems (lets > > consider in this case Mr. A did not die in the > > past) > > d) Mr. A has accuried T.B as mentioned by the > > astrologer. > > > > Parameters that have changed > > > > a) Development of Medicience and Technology > > b)Cure for T.B > > d)Positive appraoch to health care. > > > > Now in the limelight of the new changes in > > medicine and technology > > Mr.A gets treated and does not die. HOW??? > > Practicallly speaking the > > chart indicates his death by T.B but apprently he > > took the intiaitive > > to cure himself through medication bringing about > > Human free will in > > action and his life is saved. > > > > > > The Critic would argue: > > > > The critic to this analogy would argue perhaps his > > logetivity was > > high. But the question that one faces his. In the > > old times if Mr.A > > had T.B and no medicine Mr.A would die weather or > > not longetivity was > > high or low. T.B kills but in the present context > > Mr.A has mediciene > > and T.B did NOT KILL!! > > > > Further extending this argument and generalzing > > the analogy. Say in > > the olden times, Mr.A developed T.B (since he had > > the combo for this) > > but say in the present time Mr.A is working in a > > highly reputed > > governement firm, which wants its emoployess to > > have check up every 6 > > months (like blood test and chest x-ray). Mr.A(in > > mordern times) goes > > for his blood test and the Dr.Notices ssomething > > unusual (high > > lympocytes in the blood) and high white blood > > cells which a rapid > > sedimention rate. So the Dr. Asks Mr.A to go for > > sputum test which > > revels the T.B germs and Mr.A takes medication > > before anything > > happens to him (so there are no traces of any T.B > > in the chest like > > marks). Hence Mr.A can claim that he was going to > > have T.B but with > > prevention he prevent T.B and never got it. > > > > So what does the astrologer have to say in this > > regards??? > > > > I can give you further subextensions of such > > analogies??Though I > > would love to hear how one would reason it out > > since if its astrology > > there is always a way to reason out for and > > against the motion > > > > hoping for ur reponse > > Umeet > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > Archives: > > vedic astrology > > > > Group info: > > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > > vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri > > Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > ===== > http://www.geocities.com/master_minds_india/ > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Dear Gurujis Jai Guru Dev, Nameste. I am a begineer in learning astrology. I have joined in this group three days back. I have been learning myself from Brahath Jadhagam by Kadalangudi saraswathi. I am really getting motivated day by day by seeing all the mails exchanged between various experts. Can any one advise where can i get in India the book of Integrated approach by mr.rao. Is this the book you recommend ? Would appreciate assistance from any of you. thank you in advance, regards Muthu from Qatar --- naaraayana_iyer <narayan wrote: > || Om namobhagavate mahaamaatsyaaya || > > Dear Ann, > > Yes there are a lot of cultural differences and that > could cause a > lot of ire and misunderstanding. But one needs to be > patient, which > is the key here. Why ... even people belonging to > the same culture > get irate and send inflammatory mails!!! > > I once received an immature mail from one member > accusing me of not > wanting to share my knowledge, when the fact was > that I was so busy > that I did not even have time to read mails!! > > So PATIENCE is the key here. I remember when I > started out learning > jyotish on my own ... way back in 1987 ... no one to > teach ... I > used to write long letters to Astrological Magazine > and all the > authors. No one responded .... not a single reply > ... nada, zilch!!! > > However I did not lose my patience and kept > persevering, and then > found this list and Narasimha accepted me as his > student. I am > grateful to him! > > Finally, I think we all owe a big THANKS to Visti > for selflessly and > tirelessly answering all our questions. Thank You > Visti! > > BTW, Ann, please send me your Address to me and I > shall mail you a > copy Of Narasimha's, Sanjayji's books which I have. > I dont like the > fact that you are unable to buy because of financial > problems. > Please accept it from me/SJC. We believe in > propogating authentic > knowledge sincerely to interested and enthused > students! > > Note: These are my copies and I have over-used )) > them. Hope its > OK with you! > > Warm Regards > Narayan > > > vedic astrology, "Ann Murphy" > <evie@r...> > wrote: > > Namaste Listmembers, > > > > Dear Neeraj, > > You guessed right!. > > I haven't read any of the books by Sanjay or > Narasimha or had > access to CD's, Jyotish News,Transcripts etc. I have > my nose pressed > against the window, but can't come in to buy!. I > struggle > financially to afford internet access. > > I am currently pondering Visti's rather > profound > statement "when the cause of poverty becomes the > source of wealth" > > Last night I began thinking about the very > issue you raised, > especially in relation to how "we" as a group > interact across fairly > cavernous cultural divides eg: Westerners seem brash > and demanding > when asking questions, which can be construed as a > lack of good > manners in comparison to their Hindu contemporaries. > Learning styles > are very different...broad sweep here...Indians are > inclined to > listen and contemplate, Westerners want answers or > outcomes that are > open to criticism or deconstruction...and I'll have > that NOW, > please!. > > To remain acutely aware of this situation is no > mean feat. > > So, a big pat on the back to all for tolerance > and patience > > Warm Regards, > > Ann. > > - > > Neeraj Gupta > > vedic astrology > > Sunday, August 10, 2003 2:02 PM > > Re: [vedic astrology] Dear Visiti Ji > > > > > > ~ Om Namah Shivaya ~ > > > > Dear Ann, > > > > I guess, you haven't read the chapter of Arudha > Padas > > in Vedic Astrology - An Integrated Approach by > > Narshima Rao. > > > > A good astrologer is one who can see the points > from > > three prespectives (Lagna, Arudha Pada, Bhava > > Arudhas). > > > > If you carefully study Arudha Padas and Bhava > Arudhas, > > you will come to know. In these cases, the point > of > > refence is taken from society and how the > individual > > thinks and how the society thinks about > individual. > > > > So, when times change as you talked about or say > in > > different regions say a most advanced country > like USA > > and take example of some poor country, thinking > are > > different. So an astrologer at that place will > tell > > you accordingly. Astrology is a science in which > you > > had to consider many things including time, > place > > etc.. > > > > I guess a thorough reading on the chapter Arudha > padas > > will clear most of your doubts. > > > > Sorry If I mentioned anything wrong. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Neeraj Gupta > > --- Ann Murphy <evie@r...> wrote: > > > Namaste Listmembers, > > > Dear Umeet, > > > I agree with the replies > given by > > > Gurus, but to add yet another perspective to > your > > > query... > > > Long before I had even heard of Jyotish, my > > > experiences as a nurse taught me that no > amount of > > > medical intervention, quality or quantity, can > save > > > a life when their time is up. > > > Lay folk seem to have the misconception > that our > > > medical and technological advances can ensure > > > longevity. > > > The more I witnessed the greater the > awareness > > > that utimately ALL is in God's hands. > > > Love, Ann. > > > p.s to site your example; TB is currently > enjoying a > > > resurgence. The little suckers have mutated > and a > > > cure is yet to be found for this newest > strain. > > > - > > > planck12 > > > vedic astrology > > > Saturday, August 09, 2003 8:52 AM > > > [vedic astrology] Dear Visiti Ji > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > I was following your discussion closely. I > have a > > > few doubts. I will > > > try to create some analogical situations and > I > > > would really > > > appreciate your opinion on the same. > > > > > > 1. Say Mr.A is born a 100 year back in time > from > > > today and his chart > > > dictates that he is going to suffer from > T.B. Mr A > > > does not do > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Dear Sri.Madhu, You can get the books from Sagar Publications,New Delhi.Please contact them at sagarpub (AT) del3 (DOT) vsnl.net.in Regards Kaimal - Muthu S vedic astrology Monday, August 11, 2003 11:31 AM Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Dear Visiti Ji Dear GurujisJai Guru Dev, Nameste.I am a begineer in learning astrology. I have joinedin this group three days back. I have been learningmyself from Brahath Jadhagam by Kadalangudisaraswathi.I am really getting motivated day by day by seeing allthe mails exchanged between various experts. Can any one advise where can i get in India the bookof Integrated approach by mr.rao. Is this the book yourecommend ? Would appreciate assistance from any of you.thank you in advance,regardsMuthufrom Qatar--- naaraayana_iyer <narayan (AT) (DOT) org> wrote:> || Om namobhagavate mahaamaatsyaaya ||> > Dear Ann,> > Yes there are a lot of cultural differences and that> could cause a > lot of ire and misunderstanding. But one needs to be> patient, which > is the key here. Why .... even people belonging to> the same culture > get irate and send inflammatory mails!!!> > I once received an immature mail from one member> accusing me of not > wanting to share my knowledge, when the fact was> that I was so busy > that I did not even have time to read mails!!> > So PATIENCE is the key here. I remember when I> started out learning > jyotish on my own ... way back in 1987 ... no one to> teach ... I > used to write long letters to Astrological Magazine> and all the > authors. No one responded .... not a single reply> ... nada, zilch!!!> > However I did not lose my patience and kept> persevering, and then > found this list and Narasimha accepted me as his> student. I am > grateful to him!> > Finally, I think we all owe a big THANKS to Visti> for selflessly and > tirelessly answering all our questions. Thank You> Visti!> > BTW, Ann, please send me your Address to me and I> shall mail you a > copy Of Narasimha's, Sanjayji's books which I have.> I dont like the > fact that you are unable to buy because of financial> problems. > Please accept it from me/SJC. We believe in> propogating authentic > knowledge sincerely to interested and enthused> students!> > Note: These are my copies and I have over-used ))> them. Hope its > OK with you!> > Warm Regards> Narayan> > > --- In vedic astrology, "Ann Murphy"> <evie@r...> > wrote:> > Namaste Listmembers,> > > > Dear Neeraj,> > You guessed right!. > > I haven't read any of the books by Sanjay or> Narasimha or had > access to CD's, Jyotish News,Transcripts etc. I have> my nose pressed > against the window, but can't come in to buy!. I> struggle > financially to afford internet access.> > I am currently pondering Visti's rather> profound > statement "when the cause of poverty becomes the> source of wealth" > > Last night I began thinking about the very> issue you raised, > especially in relation to how "we" as a group> interact across fairly > cavernous cultural divides eg: Westerners seem brash> and demanding > when asking questions, which can be construed as a> lack of good > manners in comparison to their Hindu contemporaries.> Learning styles > are very different...broad sweep here...Indians are> inclined to > listen and contemplate, Westerners want answers or> outcomes that are > open to criticism or deconstruction...and I'll have> that NOW, > please!. > > To remain acutely aware of this situation is no> mean feat.> > So, a big pat on the back to all for tolerance> and patience > > Warm Regards,> > Ann.> > - > > Neeraj Gupta > > vedic astrology > > Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 2:02 PM> > Re: [vedic astrology] Dear Visiti Ji> > > > > > ~ Om Namah Shivaya ~> > > > Dear Ann,> > > > I guess, you haven't read the chapter of Arudha> Padas> > in Vedic Astrology - An Integrated Approach by> > Narshima Rao. > > > > A good astrologer is one who can see the points> from> > three prespectives (Lagna, Arudha Pada, Bhava> > Arudhas). > > > > If you carefully study Arudha Padas and Bhava> Arudhas,> > you will come to know. In these cases, the point> of> > refence is taken from society and how the> individual> > thinks and how the society thinks about> individual.> > > > So, when times change as you talked about or say> in> > different regions say a most advanced country> like USA> > and take example of some poor country, thinking> are> > different. So an astrologer at that place will> tell> > you accordingly. Astrology is a science in which> you> > had to consider many things including time,> place> > etc..> > > > I guess a thorough reading on the chapter Arudha> padas> > will clear most of your doubts.> > > > Sorry If I mentioned anything wrong.> > > > Kind regards,> > > > Neeraj Gupta> > --- Ann Murphy <evie@r...> wrote:> > > Namaste Listmembers,> > > Dear Umeet,> > > I agree with the replies> given by> > > Gurus, but to add yet another perspective to> your> > > query...> > > Long before I had even heard of Jyotish, my> > > experiences as a nurse taught me that no> amount of> > > medical intervention, quality or quantity, can> save> > > a life when their time is up.> > > Lay folk seem to have the misconception> that our> > > medical and technological advances can ensure> > > longevity.> > > The more I witnessed the greater the> awareness> > > that utimately ALL is in God's hands.> > > Love, Ann.> > > p.s to site your example; TB is currently> enjoying a> > > resurgence. The little suckers have mutated> and a> > > cure is yet to be found for this newest> strain.> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > planck12 > > > To: vedic astrology > > > Saturday, August 09, 2003 8:52 AM> > > [vedic astrology] Dear Visiti Ji> > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > I was following your discussion closely. I> have a> > > few doubts. I will > > > try to create some analogical situations and> I> > > would really > > > appreciate your opinion on the same. > > > > > > 1. Say Mr.A is born a 100 year back in time> from> > > today and his chart > > > dictates that he is going to suffer from> T.B. Mr A> > > does not do > === message truncated ===Do you ? SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design softwareArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Dear Shri Kaimal jai gurudev, Many many thanks regards Muthu --- SRCKaimal <srckaimal wrote: > Dear Sri.Madhu, > You can get the books from Sagar Publications,New > Delhi.Please contact them at > sagarpub > Regards > Kaimal > - > Muthu S > vedic astrology > Monday, August 11, 2003 11:31 AM > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Dear Visiti Ji > > > Dear Gurujis > > Jai Guru Dev, Nameste. > > I am a begineer in learning astrology. I have > joined > in this group three days back. I have been > learning > myself from Brahath Jadhagam by Kadalangudi > saraswathi. > > I am really getting motivated day by day by seeing > all > the mails exchanged between various experts. > > Can any one advise where can i get in India the > book > of Integrated approach by mr.rao. Is this the book > you > recommend ? > > Would appreciate assistance from any of you. > thank you in advance, > regards > Muthu > from Qatar > > > --- naaraayana_iyer <narayan > wrote: > > || Om namobhagavate mahaamaatsyaaya || > > > > Dear Ann, > > > > Yes there are a lot of cultural differences and > that > > could cause a > > lot of ire and misunderstanding. But one needs > to be > > patient, which > > is the key here. Why ... even people belonging > to > > the same culture > > get irate and send inflammatory mails!!! > > > > I once received an immature mail from one member > > accusing me of not > > wanting to share my knowledge, when the fact was > > that I was so busy > > that I did not even have time to read mails!! > > > > So PATIENCE is the key here. I remember when I > > started out learning > > jyotish on my own ... way back in 1987 ... no > one to > > teach ... I > > used to write long letters to Astrological > Magazine > > and all the > > authors. No one responded .... not a single > reply > > ... nada, zilch!!! > > > > However I did not lose my patience and kept > > persevering, and then > > found this list and Narasimha accepted me as his > > student. I am > > grateful to him! > > > > Finally, I think we all owe a big THANKS to > Visti > > for selflessly and > > tirelessly answering all our questions. Thank > You > > Visti! > > > > BTW, Ann, please send me your Address to me and > I > > shall mail you a > > copy Of Narasimha's, Sanjayji's books which I > have. > > I dont like the > > fact that you are unable to buy because of > financial > > problems. > > Please accept it from me/SJC. We believe in > > propogating authentic > > knowledge sincerely to interested and enthused > > students! > > > > Note: These are my copies and I have over-used > )) > > them. Hope its > > OK with you! > > > > Warm Regards > > Narayan > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Ann > Murphy" > > <evie@r...> > > wrote: > > > Namaste Listmembers, > > > > > > Dear Neeraj, > > > You guessed right!. > > > I haven't read any of the books by Sanjay > or > > Narasimha or had > > access to CD's, Jyotish News,Transcripts etc. I > have > > my nose pressed > > against the window, but can't come in to buy!. I > > struggle > > financially to afford internet access. > > > I am currently pondering Visti's rather > > profound > > statement "when the cause of poverty becomes the > > source of wealth" > > > Last night I began thinking about the very > > issue you raised, > > especially in relation to how "we" as a group > > interact across fairly > > cavernous cultural divides eg: Westerners seem > brash > > and demanding > > when asking questions, which can be construed as > a > > lack of good > > manners in comparison to their Hindu > contemporaries. > > Learning styles > > are very different...broad sweep here...Indians > are > > inclined to > > listen and contemplate, Westerners want answers > or > > outcomes that are > > open to criticism or deconstruction...and I'll > have > > that NOW, > > please!. > > > To remain acutely aware of this situation > is no > > mean feat. > > > So, a big pat on the back to all for > tolerance > > and patience > > > Warm Regards, > > > Ann. > > > - > > > Neeraj Gupta > > > vedic astrology > > > Sunday, August 10, 2003 2:02 PM > > > Re: [vedic astrology] Dear Visiti > Ji > > > > > > > > > ~ Om Namah Shivaya ~ > > > > > > Dear Ann, > > > > > > I guess, you haven't read the chapter of > Arudha > > Padas > > > in Vedic Astrology - An Integrated Approach > by > > > Narshima Rao. > > > > > > A good astrologer is one who can see the > points > > from > > > three prespectives (Lagna, Arudha Pada, > Bhava > > > Arudhas). > > > > > > If you carefully study Arudha Padas and > Bhava > > Arudhas, > > > you will come to know. In these cases, the > point > > of > > > refence is taken from society and how the > > individual > > > thinks and how the society thinks about > > individual. > > > > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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