Guest guest Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Pranaam Sanjay, Please answer the following question/paradox. The Question You taught that 400 BC - 800 AD and 800 AD - 2000 AD as two sub-cycles of Kali yuga in your Brahma Vidya article earlier and attributed the knowledge to Achyuta Dasa. You said Achyuta Dasa had predicted that India would become free after 2000 AD. Extrapolating this, Kali yuga can begin only in 400 BC or 1600 BC or 2800 BC or 4000 BC and so on. The conventional start year of Kali Yuga (3101 BC) is not possible with the formula you gave! Even assuming an error of 50 years in your reading of Achyuta's cryptic text, 3101 BC is not possible. You sent 3 charts for Kali Yuga start. All of them put Kali yuga start at 3101 BC. Then please explain how a new 1200 year sub-cycle started in 800 AD! Dear Dhira Krsna, You mentioned 1700-1800 BC as a possible period for Krishna's birth. Based on Sanjay's Kali yuga sub-cycles also, a subcycle could have started around 1650 BC or 1600 BC. Sri Krishna could have been born around 1780 BC. In fact, one of the charts I found using the Devalokamsa criterion belongs to 1788 BC. The Experiment I looked for all the charts in the time period 5300 BC-1000 BC that satisfied the following criteria: (1) Lunar month must be Ashadha or Sravana or Bhadrapada (to accommondate errors in today's definition) (2) Tithi must be Krishna Ashtami (3) Time must be around midnight (4) Moon must be in Rohini constellation (5) Taurus must be rising (6) A quadrant lord and a trine lord must be giving a Raja Yoga and they should both be in Devalokamsa or higher (i.e. in exaltation/moolatrikona/own sign in 7 or more divisional charts out of the 10 divisional charts belonging to Dasa Varga). This condition is given by Parasara for all of Vishnu's avataras. When I considered Parasara hora chart with planets only in Cancer and Leo, there was only one chart (in 2496 BC) that satisfied all the above criteria. It was discussed in detail in an article by me in the inaugural issue of Jyotish Digest. However, when I considered Jagannatha Hora and Kashinatha Hora charts - both have planets in all the twelve signs - instead of the traditional two-sign hora chart, I got another interesting result. [Note: Jagannatha Hora chart was mentioned in Pt. Sanjay Rath's "Jaimini Maharishi's Upadesa Sutras". Kashinatha Hora is not mentioned in any book so far, but is planned to be revealed at the Shiva-Vishnu temple in Maryland in August during the US East Coast Seminar of SJC.] The Chart I am enclosing the JHD chart. It was a Sraavana Krishna Ashtami day. The salient features of the chart that interested me are: (1) There are 3 planets in exaltation signs and 4 other planets (including Rahu) in own signs. (2) In navamsa lagna, there is Gaja-Kesari yoga, showing everlasting fame for the dharma followed. (3) Lagna lord Venus and 9th/10th lord Saturn conjoin in the 6th house Libra, giving a raja yoga. Both of them are in Devalokamsa or higher (if you use Kashinatha Hora or Jagannatha Hora instead of the two-sign Parasara Hora). The trimsamsa option used does not make a difference. (4) The two fiery planets are in Nrityalipsa avastha and the remaining seven planets are in Prakasana avastha. I've never seem such excellent Sayanadi avasthas in any chart. (5) Yogas include Ruchaka, Kalpadruma, Harsha, Tapaswi, Mridanga, Lakshmi, Bharathi and Kalpadruma. (6) Apart from the 2 planets in raja yoga in Devalokamsa and Brahmalokamsa, there is a planet in Simhasanamsa, three planets in Gopuramsa, a planet in Uttamamsa and a planet in Parijatamsa. (7) Dasamsa has 6 planets in own signs. (8) Lagna lord's D-300 ruler is Moon just as I would expect. (9) D-108 lagna shows birth in a kshatriya family. (9) Dwadasamsa lagna is afflicted by nodes. Moreover, lagna, luminaries, 4th lord and 9th lord of D-12 are in an amsa ruled by Ahi (serpant). All this fits well. Of course, I can point out a lot of things like bandhana sahamam lord's extremely close conjunction with lagna (which explains birth in a prison). But, such detailed explanations can come later. First, the very period (1788 BC) has to be acceptable to scholars. If one rules out Krishna's birth in that time period, the chart can be rejected outright. Some people like Sanjay may apply some other criteria. For example, Sanjay likes to see ishta devata match atma karaka. It happens in the chart he uses now (which falls flat on more objective criteria set forth by Parasara - like the Devalokamsa criterion). I want to humbly suggest that insistence on a fallible criterion can only lead to missing the real chart. For all we know, our understanding of atma karaka and ishta devata may be flawed. Moreover, that criterion is not given in any classic and it is only an interpolation. Just as an example, it could be that the counting from AK is in reverse if AK is in Pisces (which is the case with Mars in this chart)! Perhaps our knowledge of AK and ishta is imperfect. If we count from Mars (AK) in Pisces, we get Mars to be the lord of the empty 12th house. My point is that one cannot reject a chart entirely based on the AK-ishta formula. Anyway, I have enclosed the chart. You can do more research into it. As far as I am concerned, I like a lot of things about this chart. The only things I don't like are: (1) Jupiter is in neecha (even though he is retrograde and hence attains neecha bhanga), (2) Krishna is traditionally not supposed to belong to this period. Tradition puts Him around 3000 BC. Anyway, the chart is enclosed. You need JHora 5.0 or JHLite 5.1 to open the enclosed file (www.VedicAstrologer.org). May Jupiter's light shine on us,Narasimha Attachment: (application/octet-stream) Sri Krishna (1787 BC).jhd [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 |Brihaspatim Varenyam|Dear Narasimha, Namaste. i) You can also not bend rules to favor your chart. Here the AK and Ishta aren't the same, period! There is no reverse counting as the emancipation is always seen in the 12th. ii) This chart has Lagna lord Venus and Exalted Saturn in the 6th house. Wheres all the fighting? Where are all the dead Asuras? You must be referring to Venus and Saturns placement in the auspicious Amsa's. Here Venus is very badly placed in Sandhi - this severely flaws its auspicious Amsa as indicated by Maharshi Parasara and Pandit Vyankatesh Sharma, indicating some severe struggle to health (lagna lord in rasi sandhi). The junction of Shani and dristi of Rahu indicates curse of spouse affecting health and uncle. However the battles aren't there as these planets in the 6th can cause Agni Stambhana, and keep the fires under control. Also se 3rd and 6th from AL. iii) Last night after my meditation i realised that the definition of the Amsa's may not necessarily find its flaws in the Vargas we use, but the definition of which Grahas are fit to reside in such an Amsa. You had ascertained sometime back that "swArUDaT kendranaatha..." meant placement in Kendra from AL. I'm doubting this now. Sarvatha Chintamani also gives a definition of the same but my version has a print problem in the sloka. Could you look up; Sloka 22 Chapter 1? iv) I assumed you had no comment for my last reply?Best wishesVisti---Sri Jagannath Center: http://.orgBhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgiTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org - Narasimha P.V.R. Rao vedic astrology Thursday, July 24, 2003 7:52 AM [vedic astrology] Potential Krishna Chart Pranaam Sanjay, Please answer the following question/paradox. The Question You taught that 400 BC - 800 AD and 800 AD - 2000 AD as two sub-cycles of Kali yuga in your Brahma Vidya article earlier and attributed the knowledge to Achyuta Dasa. You said Achyuta Dasa had predicted that India would become free after 2000 AD. Extrapolating this, Kali yuga can begin only in 400 BC or 1600 BC or 2800 BC or 4000 BC and so on. The conventional start year of Kali Yuga (3101 BC) is not possible with the formula you gave! Even assuming an error of 50 years in your reading of Achyuta's cryptic text, 3101 BC is not possible. You sent 3 charts for Kali Yuga start. All of them put Kali yuga start at 3101 BC. Then please explain how a new 1200 year sub-cycle started in 800 AD! Dear Dhira Krsna, You mentioned 1700-1800 BC as a possible period for Krishna's birth. Based on Sanjay's Kali yuga sub-cycles also, a subcycle could have started around 1650 BC or 1600 BC. Sri Krishna could have been born around 1780 BC. In fact, one of the charts I found using the Devalokamsa criterion belongs to 1788 BC. The Experiment I looked for all the charts in the time period 5300 BC-1000 BC that satisfied the following criteria: (1) Lunar month must be Ashadha or Sravana or Bhadrapada (to accommondate errors in today's definition) (2) Tithi must be Krishna Ashtami (3) Time must be around midnight (4) Moon must be in Rohini constellation (5) Taurus must be rising (6) A quadrant lord and a trine lord must be giving a Raja Yoga and they should both be in Devalokamsa or higher (i.e. in exaltation/moolatrikona/own sign in 7 or more divisional charts out of the 10 divisional charts belonging to Dasa Varga). This condition is given by Parasara for all of Vishnu's avataras. When I considered Parasara hora chart with planets only in Cancer and Leo, there was only one chart (in 2496 BC) that satisfied all the above criteria. It was discussed in detail in an article by me in the inaugural issue of Jyotish Digest. However, when I considered Jagannatha Hora and Kashinatha Hora charts - both have planets in all the twelve signs - instead of the traditional two-sign hora chart, I got another interesting result. [Note: Jagannatha Hora chart was mentioned in Pt. Sanjay Rath's "Jaimini Maharishi's Upadesa Sutras". Kashinatha Hora is not mentioned in any book so far, but is planned to be revealed at the Shiva-Vishnu temple in Maryland in August during the US East Coast Seminar of SJC.] The Chart I am enclosing the JHD chart. It was a Sraavana Krishna Ashtami day. The salient features of the chart that interested me are: (1) There are 3 planets in exaltation signs and 4 other planets (including Rahu) in own signs. (2) In navamsa lagna, there is Gaja-Kesari yoga, showing everlasting fame for the dharma followed. (3) Lagna lord Venus and 9th/10th lord Saturn conjoin in the 6th house Libra, giving a raja yoga. Both of them are in Devalokamsa or higher (if you use Kashinatha Hora or Jagannatha Hora instead of the two-sign Parasara Hora). The trimsamsa option used does not make a difference. (4) The two fiery planets are in Nrityalipsa avastha and the remaining seven planets are in Prakasana avastha. I've never seem such excellent Sayanadi avasthas in any chart. (5) Yogas include Ruchaka, Kalpadruma, Harsha, Tapaswi, Mridanga, Lakshmi, Bharathi and Kalpadruma. (6) Apart from the 2 planets in raja yoga in Devalokamsa and Brahmalokamsa, there is a planet in Simhasanamsa, three planets in Gopuramsa, a planet in Uttamamsa and a planet in Parijatamsa. (7) Dasamsa has 6 planets in own signs. (8) Lagna lord's D-300 ruler is Moon just as I would expect. (9) D-108 lagna shows birth in a kshatriya family. (9) Dwadasamsa lagna is afflicted by nodes. Moreover, lagna, luminaries, 4th lord and 9th lord of D-12 are in an amsa ruled by Ahi (serpant). All this fits well. Of course, I can point out a lot of things like bandhana sahamam lord's extremely close conjunction with lagna (which explains birth in a prison). But, such detailed explanations can come later. First, the very period (1788 BC) has to be acceptable to scholars. If one rules out Krishna's birth in that time period, the chart can be rejected outright. Some people like Sanjay may apply some other criteria. For example, Sanjay likes to see ishta devata match atma karaka. It happens in the chart he uses now (which falls flat on more objective criteria set forth by Parasara - like the Devalokamsa criterion). I want to humbly suggest that insistence on a fallible criterion can only lead to missing the real chart. For all we know, our understanding of atma karaka and ishta devata may be flawed. Moreover, that criterion is not given in any classic and it is only an interpolation. Just as an example, it could be that the counting from AK is in reverse if AK is in Pisces (which is the case with Mars in this chart)! Perhaps our knowledge of AK and ishta is imperfect. If we count from Mars (AK) in Pisces, we get Mars to be the lord of the empty 12th house. My point is that one cannot reject a chart entirely based on the AK-ishta formula. Anyway, I have enclosed the chart. You can do more research into it. As far as I am concerned, I like a lot of things about this chart. The only things I don't like are: (1) Jupiter is in neecha (even though he is retrograde and hence attains neecha bhanga), (2) Krishna is traditionally not supposed to belong to this period. Tradition puts Him around 3000 BC. Anyway, the chart is enclosed. You need JHora 5.0 or JHLite 5.1 to open the enclosed file (www.VedicAstrologer.org). May Jupiter's light shine on us,Narasimha Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Dear Visti, Namaste. > i) You can also not bend rules to favor your chart. Here the AK and > Ishta aren't the same, period! There is no reverse counting as the > emancipation is always seen in the 12th. (1) There is no "my chart" and no "favoring" as you are allege. As things stand, I am still not decided on anything. (2) My main point was lost on you. Let me try again. There are some rules that are clearly spelled out in classics. There may be some parameters left for exploration, but the basic rule itself is clearly spelled out. Two raja yoga giving planets being in Devalokamsa in the charts of Vishnu's incarnations is one such rule clearly spelled out by Parasara. It simply can NOT be broken. However, there are some parameters for exploration here. For example, one can use Parasara's two-sign hora chart or other twelve-sign hora charts. There are variations in trimsamsa too. Moreover, "swaaroodhaat kendranaathaanaam" line throws up another variable. All these variables/parameters may expand the exploration space a little, but the exploration space is clearly defined and limited. The rule basically has to be satisfied. We must search for only those charts that satisfy this rule and lie within the exploration space. On the other hand, rules like the following are not granted by any classics and are simply the result of somebody's thinking (possibly wishful thinking to justify their version of a chart): (a) Ishta devata (defined based a narrow set of narrow rules) and AK must match for Sri Krishna. (b) Jupiter must be in Makara navamsa because Krishna is Yuga devata. © A fiery planet in Devaamsa must be in AL or a quadrant in Rama's chart. (d) All the planets must be in Prakasana/Nrityalipsa avastha in the charts of Rama and Krishna. The above are examples of rules one may come up with based on the chart one wants to justify. They can be broken. In other words, a chart satisfying the rules given in classics cannot be rejected just on the basis of above rules. First, we have to short-list the potential charts solely on the basis of objective criteria. Then only we can start to exercise common sense. I was not bending any rules, I was merely suggesting that our understanding of AK and ishta may be imperfect. If you believe that (y)our understanding is _perfect_, then let us leave it. Counting houses from karakamsa is not my central point anyway. My central point is that all these nice-sounding rules are our inventions and not given in any classic. First, let us take care of the rules given in classics! > ii) This chart has Lagna lord Venus and Exalted Saturn in the 6th house. > Wheres all the fighting? Where are all the dead Asuras? You must be Look at the malefics in the 6th from AL. Moreover, see D-6 for enemies. Moon and Jupiter occupy lagna in D-6 showing lasting fame for the exploits with respect to enmities. The 6th house contains Saturn and nodes, showing shceming enemies. > referring to Venus and Saturns placement in the auspicious Amsa's. > Here Venus is very badly placed in Sandhi - this severely flaws its > auspicious Amsa as indicated by Maharshi Parasara and Pandit Usually higher vaiseshikamsas occur at sign borders only. In fact, Venus attains Devalokamsa and higher amsas only in the early degrees of Libra! Sridhamaamsa is supposed to be extremely powerful. The only planets that can ever attain Sridhaamaamsa are Sun and Mars and they attain it in the first half degree of Leo and Aries. Rasi sandhi is normally undesirable. But extra-ordinary raja yogas of planets in Devalokamsa or higher amsas occur only there. So your dismissal is unjustified. Venus is extremely powerful, despite being in extreme infancy. > iv) I assumed you had no comment for my last reply? I had some comments, but not enough time to write them down. Considering that we were going off in a tangent from the main point anyway, I took it easy. Anyway, let me address one key point. You wrote: "Hence the image one portrays to soceity is also indicated, and if its associated with divinity, the name must fall in a ShastyAmsa like Deva, making one associated with divinity. Now a fiery planet was my own inference due to the Rama Taraka Mantra; Ram Ramaaya Namah - Soo much Agni due to the 'Ra'-beeja." Not only the latter point, which you acknowledge as your own inference, but the former point is also questionable. How perfect is our understanding of shashtyamsas? How many charts of gods have we studied? Why should it be Devamsa? Why not Vishnvamsa or Maheswaramsa or Amritamsa or something else? Do we know everything about those amsas? Again, I want to go back to my basic point: Let us go as far as possible on the basis of criteria clearly laid out by classics and then start speculation. If we start speculation without doing all the possible groundwork based on objective criteria, we'll get nowhere. BTW, the potenmtial Krishna chart I sent has Moon in lagna in Vishnu amsa, Jupiter (AL lord) in 9th in Deva amsa and 9th lord in Maheswaramsa. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 |Om Daxinamurtaaye Namah|Dear Narasimha, Namaste. Now i agree that this is getting abit of tangent. A few comments; Narasimha: Usually higher vaiseshikamsas occur at sign borders only. In fact, Venus attains Devalokamsa and higher amsas only in the early degrees of Libra! This is why i started questioning the definition of which grahas can be in Vaisheshikamsa's. What is really in Parasara's mind when he said; "svaaroodhaat kendranaathaanaam"? Narasimha: Look at the malefics in the 6th from AL. Moreover, see D-6 for enemies. Moon and Jupiter occupy lagna in D-6 showing lasting fame for the exploits with respect to enmities. The 6th house contains Saturn and nodes, showing shceming enemies. I guess you mean Sun and Ketu. Do you consider Ketu a malefic in such cases? We know that Ketu in 1st, 3rd or 6th from AL can make one very spiritual. Sun does add to ones dharma, but the native is protective and holds a sword, knife or light fire arm. As for D-6, i agree, but if this person is a saint (hypothetically - not so in this case), then we may have a situation such as demons disturbing the sacred rituals of a peaceful Rshi. Hence the Rasi and Navamsa would come first in line. Taking the case of the chart Sanjay accepts, Saturn occupies the 3rd from AL and indicates using the bow or such weapons of aim, (its also in the navamsa of Dhanus), and as Shani is 9th lord, it will be his dharma. The dharma however changes due to Saturn and Ketu being in Parivartana, hence Sri Krishna was more casual in the Mahabharata - we can assume that the dharma had changed by this time. Best wishesVisti---Sri Jagannath Center: http://.orgBhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgiTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org - Narasimha P.V.R. Rao vedic astrology Friday, July 25, 2003 7:53 AM [vedic astrology] Re: Potential Krishna Chart Dear Visti, Namaste. > i) You can also not bend rules to favor your chart. Here the AK and > Ishta aren't the same, period! There is no reverse counting as the > emancipation is always seen in the 12th. (1) There is no "my chart" and no "favoring" as you are allege. As things stand, I am still not decided on anything. (2) My main point was lost on you. Let me try again. There are some rules that are clearly spelled out in classics. There may be some parameters left for exploration, but the basic rule itself is clearly spelled out. Two raja yoga giving planets being in Devalokamsa in the charts of Vishnu's incarnations is one such rule clearly spelled out by Parasara. It simply can NOT be broken. However, there are some parameters for exploration here. For example, one can use Parasara's two-sign hora chart or other twelve-sign hora charts. There are variations in trimsamsa too. Moreover, "swaaroodhaat kendranaathaanaam" line throws up another variable. All these variables/parameters may expand the exploration space a little, but the exploration space is clearly defined and limited. The rule basically has to be satisfied. We must search for only those charts that satisfy this rule and lie within the exploration space. On the other hand, rules like the following are not granted by any classics and are simply the result of somebody's thinking (possibly wishful thinking to justify their version of a chart): (a) Ishta devata (defined based a narrow set of narrow rules) and AK must match for Sri Krishna. (b) Jupiter must be in Makara navamsa because Krishna is Yuga devata. © A fiery planet in Devaamsa must be in AL or a quadrant in Rama's chart. (d) All the planets must be in Prakasana/Nrityalipsa avastha in the charts of Rama and Krishna. The above are examples of rules one may come up with based on the chart one wants to justify. They can be broken. In other words, a chart satisfying the rules given in classics cannot be rejected just on the basis of above rules. First, we have to short-list the potential charts solely on the basis of objective criteria. Then only we can start to exercise common sense. I was not bending any rules, I was merely suggesting that our understanding of AK and ishta may be imperfect. If you believe that (y)our understanding is _perfect_, then let us leave it. Counting houses from karakamsa is not my central point anyway. My central point is that all these nice-sounding rules are our inventions and not given in any classic. First, let us take care of the rules given in classics! > ii) This chart has Lagna lord Venus and Exalted Saturn in the 6th house. > Wheres all the fighting? Where are all the dead Asuras? You must be Look at the malefics in the 6th from AL. Moreover, see D-6 for enemies. Moon and Jupiter occupy lagna in D-6 showing lasting fame for the exploits with respect to enmities. The 6th house contains Saturn and nodes, showing shceming enemies. > referring to Venus and Saturns placement in the auspicious Amsa's. > Here Venus is very badly placed in Sandhi - this severely flaws its > auspicious Amsa as indicated by Maharshi Parasara and Pandit Usually higher vaiseshikamsas occur at sign borders only. In fact, Venus attains Devalokamsa and higher amsas only in the early degrees of Libra! Sridhamaamsa is supposed to be extremely powerful. The only planets that can ever attain Sridhaamaamsa are Sun and Mars and they attain it in the first half degree of Leo and Aries. Rasi sandhi is normally undesirable. But extra-ordinary raja yogas of planets in Devalokamsa or higher amsas occur only there. So your dismissal is unjustified. Venus is extremely powerful, despite being in extreme infancy. > iv) I assumed you had no comment for my last reply? I had some comments, but not enough time to write them down. Considering that we were going off in a tangent from the main point anyway, I took it easy. Anyway, let me address one key point. You wrote: "Hence the image one portrays to soceity is also indicated, and if its associated with divinity, the name must fall in a ShastyAmsa like Deva, making one associated with divinity. Now a fiery planet was my own inference due to the Rama Taraka Mantra; Ram Ramaaya Namah - Soo much Agni due to the 'Ra'-beeja." Not only the latter point, which you acknowledge as your own inference, but the former point is also questionable. How perfect is our understanding of shashtyamsas? How many charts of gods have we studied? Why should it be Devamsa? Why not Vishnvamsa or Maheswaramsa or Amritamsa or something else? Do we know everything about those amsas? Again, I want to go back to my basic point: Let us go as far as possible on the basis of criteria clearly laid out by classics and then start speculation. If we start speculation without doing all the possible groundwork based on objective criteria, we'll get nowhere. BTW, the potenmtial Krishna chart I sent has Moon in lagna in Vishnu amsa, Jupiter (AL lord) in 9th in Deva amsa and 9th lord in Maheswaramsa. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Dear Visti/ Narasimharaoji, I thought about what visti said when he asked "What is really in Parasara's mind when he said; "svaaroodhaat kendranaathaanaam"? Would it not mean " when lord of the Kendra is situated in its own aarudha? This position can only arise when lord of a kendra is situated in the 4th house from itself. Since Aarudha cannot be in Ascendant or 7th only the Ascendant lord in 4th and 7th lord in 10th could fulfill this condition since Parashara says " ywatuyRiSwte nawe tuyRmev pdm! Évet!, yathäturyasthite näthe turyameva padam bhavet|" Or am making a mistake? Regards, Chandrashekhar. Visti Larsen [vishnu (AT) lbq (DOT) dk]Friday, July 25, 2003 5:14 PMvedic astrologySubject: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Potential Krishna Chart |Om Daxinamurtaaye Namah|Dear Narasimha, Namaste. Now i agree that this is getting abit of tangent. A few comments; Narasimha: Usually higher vaiseshikamsas occur at sign borders only. In fact, Venus attains Devalokamsa and higher amsas only in the early degrees of Libra! This is why i started questioning the definition of which grahas can be in Vaisheshikamsa's. What is really in Parasara's mind when he said; "svaaroodhaat kendranaathaanaam"? Narasimha: Look at the malefics in the 6th from AL. Moreover, see D-6 for enemies. Moon and Jupiter occupy lagna in D-6 showing lasting fame for the exploits with respect to enmities. The 6th house contains Saturn and nodes, showing shceming enemies. I guess you mean Sun and Ketu. Do you consider Ketu a malefic in such cases? We know that Ketu in 1st, 3rd or 6th from AL can make one very spiritual. Sun does add to ones dharma, but the native is protective and holds a sword, knife or light fire arm. As for D-6, i agree, but if this person is a saint (hypothetically - not so in this case), then we may have a situation such as demons disturbing the sacred rituals of a peaceful Rshi. Hence the Rasi and Navamsa would come first in line. Taking the case of the chart Sanjay accepts, Saturn occupies the 3rd from AL and indicates using the bow or such weapons of aim, (its also in the navamsa of Dhanus), and as Shani is 9th lord, it will be his dharma. The dharma however changes due to Saturn and Ketu being in Parivartana, hence Sri Krishna was more casual in the Mahabharata - we can assume that the dharma had changed by this time. Best wishesVisti---Sri Jagannath Center: http://.orgBhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgiTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org - Narasimha P.V.R. Rao vedic astrology Friday, July 25, 2003 7:53 AM [vedic astrology] Re: Potential Krishna Chart Dear Visti, Namaste. > i) You can also not bend rules to favor your chart. Here the AK and > Ishta aren't the same, period! There is no reverse counting as the > emancipation is always seen in the 12th. (1) There is no "my chart" and no "favoring" as you are allege. As things stand, I am still not decided on anything. (2) My main point was lost on you. Let me try again. There are some rules that are clearly spelled out in classics. There may be some parameters left for exploration, but the basic rule itself is clearly spelled out. Two raja yoga giving planets being in Devalokamsa in the charts of Vishnu's incarnations is one such rule clearly spelled out by Parasara. It simply can NOT be broken. However, there are some parameters for exploration here. For example, one can use Parasara's two-sign hora chart or other twelve-sign hora charts. There are variations in trimsamsa too. Moreover, "swaaroodhaat kendranaathaanaam" line throws up another variable. All these variables/parameters may expand the exploration space a little, but the exploration space is clearly defined and limited. The rule basically has to be satisfied. We must search for only those charts that satisfy this rule and lie within the exploration space. On the other hand, rules like the following are not granted by any classics and are simply the result of somebody's thinking (possibly wishful thinking to justify their version of a chart): (a) Ishta devata (defined based a narrow set of narrow rules) and AK must match for Sri Krishna. (b) Jupiter must be in Makara navamsa because Krishna is Yuga devata. © A fiery planet in Devaamsa must be in AL or a quadrant in Rama's chart. (d) All the planets must be in Prakasana/Nrityalipsa avastha in the charts of Rama and Krishna. The above are examples of rules one may come up with based on the chart one wants to justify. They can be broken. In other words, a chart satisfying the rules given in classics cannot be rejected just on the basis of above rules. First, we have to short-list the potential charts solely on the basis of objective criteria. Then only we can start to exercise common sense. I was not bending any rules, I was merely suggesting that our understanding of AK and ishta may be imperfect. If you believe that (y)our understanding is _perfect_, then let us leave it. Counting houses from karakamsa is not my central point anyway. My central point is that all these nice-sounding rules are our inventions and not given in any classic. First, let us take care of the rules given in classics! > ii) This chart has Lagna lord Venus and Exalted Saturn in the 6th house. > Wheres all the fighting? Where are all the dead Asuras? You must be Look at the malefics in the 6th from AL. Moreover, see D-6 for enemies. Moon and Jupiter occupy lagna in D-6 showing lasting fame for the exploits with respect to enmities. The 6th house contains Saturn and nodes, showing shceming enemies. > referring to Venus and Saturns placement in the auspicious Amsa's. > Here Venus is very badly placed in Sandhi - this severely flaws its > auspicious Amsa as indicated by Maharshi Parasara and Pandit Usually higher vaiseshikamsas occur at sign borders only. In fact, Venus attains Devalokamsa and higher amsas only in the early degrees of Libra! Sridhamaamsa is supposed to be extremely powerful. The only planets that can ever attain Sridhaamaamsa are Sun and Mars and they attain it in the first half degree of Leo and Aries. Rasi sandhi is normally undesirable. But extra-ordinary raja yogas of planets in Devalokamsa or higher amsas occur only there. So your dismissal is unjustified. Venus is extremely powerful, despite being in extreme infancy. > iv) I assumed you had no comment for my last reply? I had some comments, but not enough time to write them down. Considering that we were going off in a tangent from the main point anyway, I took it easy. Anyway, let me address one key point. You wrote: "Hence the image one portrays to soceity is also indicated, and if its associated with divinity, the name must fall in a ShastyAmsa like Deva, making one associated with divinity. Now a fiery planet was my own inference due to the Rama Taraka Mantra; Ram Ramaaya Namah - Soo much Agni due to the 'Ra'-beeja." Not only the latter point, which you acknowledge as your own inference, but the former point is also questionable. How perfect is our understanding of shashtyamsas? How many charts of gods have we studied? Why should it be Devamsa? Why not Vishnvamsa or Maheswaramsa or Amritamsa or something else? Do we know everything about those amsas? Again, I want to go back to my basic point: Let us go as far as possible on the basis of criteria clearly laid out by classics and then start speculation. If we start speculation without doing all the possible groundwork based on objective criteria, we'll get nowhere. BTW, the potenmtial Krishna chart I sent has Moon in lagna in Vishnu amsa, Jupiter (AL lord) in 9th in Deva amsa and 9th lord in Maheswaramsa. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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