Dear Sanjayji And ZoranJi- a rebuttal

June 12, 2003

Dear UMS,

I was shocked to read your comments. Firstly you mocked Visti's comments

and when Sanjayi rebutted your comments you became defensive and sorted

refuge in spirituality by arguing that nothing can absolutely right or

wrong. But then,you should have known that when you scorned Visti for

sharing his opinion.

Secondly, you claimed in so many words that you did not benefit from this

forum. I find that hard to believe. The gurus and other members in this

form have unselfishly shared their deep knowledge and answered so much of

our queries. This is akin to having a full time teacher/teachers around us.

Now you could probably argue that the material was too deep, but to say

that it was conflicting and confusing is to throw the blame at the gurus.

And that to me is being dishonest. As for myself, i have benefitted

immensely from the wealth of information that was shared by the gurus and

not just about jyotish but with regards to spirituality as well.

To your main issue about astrologers giving prediction death and that being

akin to man playing God.

I think you are misguided if you belief that somehow the Almighty's design

would be thwarted if an astrologer attempts a reading concerning death.

And why is death any different from marriage, birth , education or other

aspects ? In the Gita, Lord Krishna likens death to a man changing his

clothes. It is simply an event and not the end. Sanjayi has elucidated why

death should viewed from the 8th house and not the 12 house and to me the

rationale was just astounding.

You also stated

"When we go to the church or mosque, they mention that when one is facing

death one=

should remember the name of God, for no one but only God knows when we are

=

going to Die. Are they All WRONG??? If they are wrong why and how are we

rig=

ht, Just be reading BHPS and Jaimini and ignoring all other religious texts

=

can be fully understand the function of God, and if we cannot understand

the=

function of God can we or are we justified in using the Divine tool of astr

=

ology in any way what so ever. When we ourselves misintepret all these

thing=

s as humans, let along predict DEATH. "

Don't you see your glaring contradiction. When a person is facing death,

meaning he knows that he is dying. But that is besides the point, what has

chanting the name of God near death or otherwise have to do with an

astrologers attempt to see death or longevity ? Which religious text says

it is immoral to look at death ?

Now, I would understand how some would be fearful of events related to

death, but I don't ever recall any gurus telling any members that such and

such a person would die at such a date. Most gurus and astrologers are

aware that death is a touchy issue for many and do not want to upset

readers or questioners. However that does not mean that the question of

longevity or death cannot be analyzed in an objective manner. !

Subsequently you go on to instruct the gurus and other members on how they

should approach astrology( as in sitting in meditation and asking God). You

started by assuming a humble front an arrogant front by presuming that

somehow our/ gurus methods are faulty. One thing is clear, from the

writings of gurus from Sanjayi to Robert Kock all of them are deeply

spiritual. So who are you to advise them on how they should approach

jyotish. ? You contradict yourself, when you say that one should give human

will a chance and in the breadth give your suggestions about how jyotsih

should really be practiced. That is hypocrisy.

The next point has to do with the question of receiving monetary rewards

for an astrological reading. What is wrong with that. Some one is providing

a service and it is an arrangement between a willing buyer and seller. No

one is forcing anyone. The astrologer could be trying to make an honest

living and that karma is no less honorable than that of a priest who

incidentally also receives compensation.

K. Ajith

_

This report is solely for information and general circulation only and may

not be published, circulated, reproduced or distributed in whole or in part

to any other person without our written consent. This report should not be

construed as an offer or solicitation for the subscription, purchase or

sale of the securities mentioned herein. Whilst we have taken all

reasonable care to ensure that the information contained in this

publication is not untrue or misleading at the time of publication, we

cannot guarantee its accuracy or completeness, and you should not act on it

without first independently verifying its contents. Any opinion or estimate

contained in this report is subject to change without notice. We have not

given any consideration to and we have not made any investigation of the

investment objectives, financial situation or particular needs of the

recipient or any class of persons, and accordingly, no warranty whatsoever

is given and no liability whatsoever is accepted for any loss arising

whether directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient or any class of

persons acting on such information or opinion or estimate. OCBC Securities

Pte Ltd and its related and affiliated corporations together with their

respective directors and officers may have or take positions in the

securities mentioned in this report and may also perform or seek to perform

broking and other investment or securities-related services for the

corporations whose securities are mentioned in this report as well as other

parties generally.

Privileged/Confidential information may be contained in this message. If

you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for

delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this

message to anyone. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this

message that do not relate to the official business of my company shall be

understood as neither given nor endorsed by it.

June 14, 2003

dearums,

I have 7 planets in my eighth house, a house of death. I am not worried about

death. Why to predict? you should live joyously the the life given by

almighty. you have created chaos by fear of death. Is it so important knowing

death ?. I think it is futile discussion..

ajith (AT) ocbc-research (DOT) com

[ajith (AT) ocbc-research (DOT) com]Friday, June 13, 2003 11:29 AMTo:

vedic astrologySubject: Re: [vedic astrology] Dear Sanjayji And

ZoranJi- a rebuttalDear UMS,I was shocked to read your comments. Firstly you

mocked Visti's commentsand when Sanjayi rebutted your comments you became

defensive and sortedrefuge in spirituality by arguing that nothing can

absolutely right orwrong. But then,you should have known that when you scorned

Visti forsharing his opinion.Secondly, you claimed in so many words that you did

not benefit from thisforum. I find that hard to believe. The gurus and other

members in thisform have unselfishly shared their deep knowledge and answered

so much ofour queries. This is akin to having a full time teacher/teachers

around us.Now you could probably argue that the material was too deep, but to

saythat it was conflicting and confusing is to throw the blame at the gurus.And

that to me is being dishonest. As for myself, i have benefittedimmensely from

the wealth of information that was shared by the gurus andnot just about

jyotish but with regards to spirituality as well.To your main issue about

astrologers giving prediction death and that beingakin to man playing God.I

think you are misguided if you belief that somehow the Almighty's designwould

be thwarted if an astrologer attempts a reading concerning death.And why is

death any different from marriage, birth , education or otheraspects ? In the

Gita, Lord Krishna likens death to a man changing hisclothes. It is simply an

event and not the end. Sanjayi has elucidated whydeath should viewed from the

8th house and not the 12 house and to me therationale was just astounding.You

also stated"When we go to the church or mosque, they mention that when one is

facingdeath one=should remember the name of God, for no one but only God knows

when we are=going to Die. Are they All WRONG??? If they are wrong why and how

are werig=ht, Just be reading BHPS and Jaimini and ignoring all other religious

texts=can be fully understand the function of God, and if we cannot

understandthe=function of God can we or are we justified in using the Divine

tool of astr=ology in any way what so ever. When we ourselves misintepret all

thesething=s as humans, let along predict DEATH. "Don't you see your glaring

contradiction. When a person is facing death,meaning he knows that he is dying.

But that is besides the point, what haschanting the name of God near death or

otherwise have to do with anastrologers attempt to see death or longevity ?

Which religious text saysit is immoral to look at death ?Now, I would

understand how some would be fearful of events related todeath, but I don't

ever recall any gurus telling any members that such andsuch a person would die

at such a date. Most gurus and astrologers areaware that death is a touchy

issue for many and do not want to upsetreaders or questioners. However that

does not mean that the question oflongevity or death cannot be analyzed in an

objective manner. !Subsequently you go on to instruct the gurus and other

members on how theyshould approach astrology( as in sitting in meditation and

asking God). Youstarted by assuming a humble front an arrogant front by

presuming thatsomehow our/ gurus methods are faulty. One thing is clear, from

thewritings of gurus from Sanjayi to Robert Kock all of them are

deeplyspiritual. So who are you to advise them on how they should

approachjyotish. ? You contradict yourself, when you say that one should give

humanwill a chance and in the breadth give your suggestions about how

jyotsihshould really be practiced. That is hypocrisy.The next point has to do

with the question of receiving monetary rewardsfor an astrological reading.

What is wrong with that. Some one is providinga service and it is an

arrangement between a willing buyer and seller. Noone is forcing anyone. The

astrologer could be trying to make an honestliving and that karma is no less

honorable than that of a priest whoincidentally also receives compensation.K.

Ajith_This report is solely

for information and general circulation only and maynot be published,

circulated, reproduced or distributed in whole or in partto any other person

without our written consent. This report should not beconstrued as an offer or

solicitation for the subscription, purchase orsale of the securities mentioned

herein. Whilst we have taken allreasonable care to ensure that the information

contained in thispublication is not untrue or misleading at the time of

publication, wecannot guarantee its accuracy or completeness, and you should

not act on itwithout first independently verifying its contents. Any opinion or

estimatecontained in this report is subject to change without notice. We have

notgiven any consideration to and we have not made any investigation of

theinvestment objectives, financial situation or particular needs of

therecipient or any class of persons, and accordingly, no warranty whatsoeveris

given and no liability whatsoever is accepted for any loss arisingwhether

directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient or any class ofpersons

acting on such information or opinion or estimate. OCBC SecuritiesPte Ltd and

its related and affiliated corporations together with theirrespective directors

and officers may have or take positions in thesecurities mentioned in this

report and may also perform or seek to performbroking and other investment or

securities-related services for thecorporations whose securities are mentioned

in this report as well as otherparties generally.Privileged/Confidential

information may be contained in this message. Ifyou are not the addressee

indicated in this message (or responsible fordelivery of the message to such

person), you may not copy or deliver thismessage to anyone. Opinions,

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June 14, 2003