Dasavatara Stotra-to Sanjayji

June 9, 2003

I am following this interesting discussion about these meanings. I can not

contribute a lot really to the list, but I do follow what is going on with much

interest. About these words -

Vamsha (or vansha) - bamboo - fine. In fact it is supposed to be from the

resemblance to the development of the joints in bamboo - as the bamboo grows

each of its sections, and is a general term for lineage. The specific meanings

attached are a social development.

You need to take care with the other attemps at explaining the meanings you have

suggested - gotra is not go + atra - you can not add an addional 'a' from

nowhere to achieve the meaning you are interested to find. Go (cow) + tra -

from root trai to cross (protector - i.e. one who enables another to cross over

an obstacle and referring ultimately to Krishna) with original meaning simply of

cowshed, cowherd or the like.

Dattatraya is not Datta + traya, it is datta + atraya (dattaatraya in pronunciation), and

Atraya should refer to the sage Atri. However that word (which I think could

only be Atrayah - a plural form) would have a very specific usage - Dattaatri

refers to a thunderbolt (ref. Vayupurana) It has a long vowel, not a short one

and the word for the sage is Dattaatreya (Datta + Aatreya), the additional

change from 'a' to 'e' signifying a descent from the original sage Atri. If

the meaning of traya was three then it would be spelt trayah, there is no form

traya as far as I know.

Unless you know of a use of Datta + trayah I do not think your meaning could be possible.

Regards

Gordon

June 9, 2003

Dear Sanjayji and All Gurus

Sorry for the late reply.

I am trying to translate these three words and trying to find purpose

of these three words. All essentially mean same thing but possibly

the context in which they are used is different. Vansha literally

means The Bamboo. I am not sure but I vividly remember that in

ancient times there was some system to record the linage with the

help of bamboo. (from its resemblance to the succession

of joints in a bamboo)and from there we have the word Vansha to

describe linage.

The context of these words were different. Usually to describe the

linage of a King or King-like -person the word Vansha is used and to

describe the linage of comman mortals the word Kula is used. Even

when Ram is referenced as 'Comman Man' Tulsi says "RaghuKula rit

sada....". But when Kalidas desribed the Bhagawan Ram it is with

RaghuVansha. But many times Prabhu Ramchandra is also considered to

be from IsvakuKula.

Similarly, Gotra Go+atra 'Go' means "pran" and 'aTra' means related

to. So when we refered anyone in spiritual context or at the time of

performing the pooja(PranPrathista) of Devas the word Gotra is used.

So "Pran" related activities must be governed by some system/school.

These are Gotra system. That is why we still use Gotra at the time

of marriage and Pooja.

Sanjayji, you have mentioned that Atri and Anusuya had many sons. But

according to many standard text,Rishi Atri and Devi Anusuya had only

three sons. There is a story that Anusuya got three Atithis at her

door steps when MahaRishi Atri was out of Ashram. These three atithis

then asked Devi Anusuya to serve the food to them in complete nude.

Devi Anusuya because of her SatiBal realized that these three Atithi

Brahmans are none other than Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh. She got angree

with them and made them kids. Then all three pleaded mercy.Sati

Anusuya agreed but put on one condition that all three will take

birth as her sons. All three agreed happily. Later Anusuya gave birth

to three sons. It was Wednesday fullmoon and Moon was in Mruga

Nakshatra. Maharshi Atri named these sons as Datta as he doneted

himself,Chandra as he made everyone happy and Durvasa as he had Ansha

of Rudra. Later Chandra went to Chandralok and Durvasa to Pruthvilok.

Anusuya was very sorry about this. Datta then showed all three in

himself. So he became DattaTraya. Datta+Traya. Traya means three.

[According to my little knowledge of Sanskrit,we can not say

Datta+atraya(sound of double a is missing). Moreover,'atraya' itself

should qualify son of Atri. Why to add double qualifier?] That is

why we have three heads in the Murti of Dattatraya to represent

Brahma,Vishnu, and Mahesh. Sir, will you please provide some more

details about Atri & Anusuya. I have seen your site as well. Here

also you have mentioned only three sons and moreorless same

story.What is the story about Rath as fourth son of Anusuya?

Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

AmolMandar

June 9, 2003

Dear Gordan

You may be right in suggesting the meaning of the word Gotra but 'Go'

is not Cow only in Sanskrit. It as well means Indriya or Pran. Now

when deciding the meaning of a word we have to very careful about

correct specification of the word. By simply saying that Go is always

cow the use of Gotra can not be explained.

We explain Sarvatra/Anyatra as Sarv+atra and Anya+atra. Here we can

not take Anya+Tra as protector of Anya(Some one else). It expalins

related to something else with atra. Same is the case with Sarvatra.

Again, with Dattatraya,it is difficult to understand why the name of

the rishi be associated with name of a person. It can be as father

but Atraya itself should express son of Atri. As Kounteya to mean son

of Kunti (Arjun) and RAdheya to mean son of Radha (Karna). It is this

qualification which is sufficient and not the double as ArjunKounteya

or KarnaRaheya. If we accept your way of semantics,still question

remains why not to describe Durvasa with the name of Atri. We write

Soma-atreya,Datta-atreya,Rath-atreya then logically it should be with

Durvas-atraya.

I dont understand why to get into plural form when it explains as a

complete word. I think we get as plural only when some singular is to

be described as plural. Refer to any standard dictionary and you will

find Traya as a valid word with out h associated with it.

I am neither a expert of Sanskrit nor the Jyotish.It is just a

spontaneous thought process that is manifested here. But I think it

is worth considering. May be your right, may be not!

Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

AmolMandar

vedic astrology, GWBrennan@a... wrote:

> Dear Amolmandar

>

> I am following this interesting discussion about these meanings. I

can not

> contribute a lot really to the list, but I do follow what is going

on with much

> interest. About these words -

> Vamsha (or vansha) - bamboo - fine. In fact it is supposed to be

from the

> resemblance to the development of the joints in bamboo - as the

bamboo grows

> each of its sections, and is a general term for lineage. The

specific meanings

> attached are a social development.

>

> You need to take care with the other attemps at explaining the

meanings you

> have suggested - gotra is not go + atra - you can not add an

addional 'a' from

> nowhere to achieve the meaning you are interested to find. Go

(cow) + tra -

> from root trai to cross (protector - i.e. one who enables another

to cross over

> an obstacle and referring ultimately to Krishna) with original

meaning simply

> of cowshed, cowherd or the like.

>

> Dattatraya is not Datta + traya, it is datta + atraya (dattaatraya

in

> pronunciation), and

> Atraya should refer to the sage Atri. However that word (which I

think could

> only be Atrayah - a plural form) would have a very specific usage -

Dattaatri

> refers to a thunderbolt (ref. Vayupurana) It has a long vowel, not

a short

> one and the word for the sage is Dattaatreya (Datta + Aatreya), the

additional

> change from 'a' to 'e' signifying a descent from the original sage

Atri. If

> the meaning of traya was three then it would be spelt trayah, there

is no form

> traya as far as I know.

> Unless you know of a use of Datta + trayah I do not think your

meaning could

> be possible.

> Regards

> Gordon

June 10, 2003

|brihaspatim varenyam|

Dear Amol Mandar,

The correct pronunciation is dattaatreya. He is the second son of Atri muni

and Anuseya and is the Avadhuta Brahmana referred to in the Bhagavatam by

Sri Krishna Canto 11 while teaching Uddhava about the meaning of Guru.

Go may mean many things, but evey word has a 'devata' that illumines the

mind, and here Go refers to cows as in Taurus which is the place where the

cows come home. Life revolved around them and Taurus represents the family

as the second house of the natural zodiac. Moon represents cows and its

moolatrikona (office) is in Taurus. It is here that the cows are milked and

the family is sustained. Go-kula refers to a conglomeration of houses like a

family around a Go-shaala (cow-shed) where people used to live together and

feel protected (trai) and safe from the wilderness outside. They were

identified as a Go-tra. The word trai comes from the fact that the cow-dung

+ water etc used to plaster the earthern floor is the ONLY guarantee that

the snakes will not come inside. Snakes keep away from (1) cowdung and (2)

bamboo. The latter was used as the danda of the Guru...

You are right about the Radheya, that is why it is Atreya and not atraya.

Dattaatreya..with an 'e'.

My views only...

~ om tat sat ~

Yours truly,

Sanjay Rath

---------------------------

H-5, B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India

+91-674-2436871 http://srath.com <http://srath.com>

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amolmandar [amolmandar]

Monday, June 09, 2003 8:22 PM

vedic astrology

[vedic astrology] Re: Dasavatara Stotra-to Sanjayji