20th mumbai meeting discussions - Ven exal and deb.

May 30, 2003

Dear Chandrashekharji and Jkda

Pardon me for the delay in my response. First and foremost I thank you

sincerely in analyzing the chart, but it has thrown up some fundamental

questions for me as to how easily I am forgetting my basics or just

unclear on it.

1. I got your point as to why Venus in the mothers case

needs to be strengthened.

2. Do you and Jkda and other learned members see a good

spiritual combination in the childs chart.

3. Ketu is normally said to be good in the 12th house so why

should it afflict Mars - daughters chart.

Sir, can you expand expansively on two situations, what happens when

in a hypothetical situation where we consider the naisargik qualities of

Ven:-

a) Ven is exalted in Rasi, debilitated in Navamsa, also the

AK , how would it behave.

b) Ven is debilitated in Rasi, and also in Navamsa also the

AK , how would it behave.

Best wishes and thanking you in advance

Sunil John

Re: [vedic astrology] 20th discussion meeting proceedings,

mumbai

Dear J.K.Dasgupta,I agree that there is KSY in the daughter's

horoscope. My own views on Kalasarpa yogas are a bit non conformist,

and as such I always hesitate to comment on its effects.However it is

always a pleasure to discuss with those, who are

knowledgeable.Kalasarpa yoga, as it is called has come in to fashion in

recent years. Most ancient texts do not even mention it. When I

started studying astrology about40 and some years back(and am still

studying it); nobody mentioned the yoga barring a few. It was always

saturn's deadly Sade Sati that was under discussion. KSY came into

fashion , at least in my state of mmaharashtra as Jyotish from western

part of Maharashtra and Purohit's of Trimbakashwara found a link of

Nag in Narayana Nag Bali and the Sarpa of Kalasarpa(And probably

found a good market in gullibles). The ritual of Narayana Nag Bali has to

do with Pinda daana and is not for Sarpa dosha (which is any way

different from KSY which is ascribed to KSY).What we tend to forget is

that Dragon's head and Dragon's tail are concepts of western astrology

and not edic astrology. Sarpa Dosha has to do with malefics in three

quadrant and not remotely connected with KSY. About the chart in

hand, if we see how the KSY is to operate, then it might actually be a

blessing rather than curse for her as no planet can have a full 7th house

aspect on the sensitive sthanas from 7h to12th barring Mars ,Jupiter

and Saturn who anyway aspect the sthanas that they should, Mars the

6th Jupiter the Ascendant and Saturn the 2nd which is his own Rasi in

that half of the horoscope. Of couse Ketu and Mars together

(Remember Kujavat Ketu) in 12th house lorded over by Jupiter, a

friend, and for Ketu an exaltation rasi, have their own significance.

They are liable to damage her marital life and being lord of the 11th and

4th might make her go to distant lands to earn her livelyhood. The

saving grace is exchange of house between Venus and Jupiter, this

should, to soe extent modify the illeffects of Venus debilitation in

navamsha.At least this how I see it . I am eagerly awaiting Sanjayji,s

inputs on role of Atmakaraka.With regards,Chandrashekhar. -----

Original Message ----- j.k. dasgupta vedic-

astrology ; Sent:

Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:52 AMRe: [vedic astrology] 20th

discussion meeting proceedings, mumbaiDear Chandrashekharji, This is

the chart of the daughter and i was talking about this one only. some

comments below. however, have you noticed one thing? now a days lot

of mails are being exchanged on curses / preta badha etc. even sjc,

delhi were having classes on this and we in mumbai - unknowingly,

started discussion on this chart. any perticular planetory combination

for this? Regards jk- Chandrashekhar

vedic astrology Wednesday, May 28,

2003 4:09 PMRe: [vedic astrology] 20th discussion meeting

proceedings, mumbaiDear Sunil,If you look at the daughter's chart what

strikes you is connection of venus(Lord of the 5th) to 9th house(by

aspect) as in the case of mother. The venus here too is debilitated in

navamsha and so will give those results. Mars afflicted by Ketu aspects

this venus from 12th house, so possibility of strong and strange sexual

drive in the daughter cannot be ruled out.Moon and Mercury are

together with 8th lord Sun and 6th lord Mercury. Mercury is further

afflicted by Rahu being deposited in his house and similar connection of

Buddhipati Venus with his other house the 9th. Also look at connection

of Sat/Jupiter with 5th house here as in the case of the mother. [jk]

above all these affliction it has KSY also. Mars with Ket may not break

the yoga....and again mars+ketu Severe mental disturbance coupled

with escaping in to imaginary realm cannot be ruled out here too as in

the case of the mother but on a different level.It is easy to pass on

something on to pretadosha or badha, the classic yogas occur with less

frequency than is generally believed. Again for any black magic to

affect one, assuming that the practioner is a master; one has to have

done something really bad. Otherwise it affects the practiotioner

him/herself. Here again strength of mind plays a strong role.At least this

is how I view this matter.You must have observed that I usually do not

prefer to comment on curses and posession by spirits. The reason is , I

have no way of finding out whether what ever prediction I made in that

regard is correct or not. It is too much dependent on what a jatak feels

about it than what might be correct.This of course does not mean that

those who follow this line are wrong. Just that I do not feel myself

expert enough to comment on things that I have not understoood in

their entirety. [jk] you are very right and i agree with you. About

Venus, yes others have also asked on similar lines. The basic principle of

astrology is that a planet that is strong helps where as a planet which is

weak might create problems to the bhava.That is why we say a

debilitated shubha planet will create problems. Venus when strong

teaches one how to control desires and still enjoy life. The lady's

problems have their genesis in a weak Venus and I think it should help

her than harm. Again remember Venus as Atmakaraka has very

different role and the principles of how a graha is taken to be

atmakaraka will reveal that the planet is usually weak. The reason is

that it is the planet in highest degrees, like here it is in the last 6

degrees of sign virgo, where being even rasi he is Bal (child) hence the

childish attitude towards sex of this lady. Had it been may be

Darakaraka he might have given more serious attitude towards casual

sex. That is why strengthening atmakaraka should only be done when

he becomes a yogakaraka as in the instant horoscope and not

otherwise. [jk] you may be correct on this. we shall request Sanjayji

and others to plz comment on this perticular case. Others might have

different views.Hope this helps,Chandrashekhar.----- Original Message -

---- suniljohn vedic-

astrology Tuesday, May 27, 2003 12:32

PM[vedic astrology] 20th discussion meeting proceedings,

mumbaiDear Chandrashekharji,Pranam, some queries on this chart, as

you know I am a beginner and needs to be corrected.As analysed by

you, upon confirmation we got that the girls mother is a bit neurotic. I

think JKda pointed out in another post, that we had earlier thought that

the girl is hallucinating but her daughter has also now started seeing

people in the house and hence her mother is very scared.I attach the

daughters chart too for your perusal.Apart from the case of black magic

JKda had pointed out another dosha of being haunted by spirits. The

current house she is staying in was earlier rented to aboriginals who are

known to be able to access spirits very easily it is said.Sir, you had

pointed out earlier that remedies should be for Venus, my query is

would this give adverse results since her past has been odd kind of sex

and its related problems. So would this strengthening of Ven backfire on

her as she is still in two minds to go back to that kind of lifestyle as now

she has her child. But if she goes back to it then problems always comes

in. I presume this is the AK Ven trying to show her the way.Could you

kindly comment on the nature of the coming Ven dasa.As of now the

native has started reading spiritual books after lot of obstacles, is this

how the AK is showing the path, I mean are the results of the coming

dasa being experienced a bit in advance.Best wishes,Sunil JohnDear JK

Dasgupta,> Does this not appear to be a case of sever affliction of 5th

house ? The 5th lord is debilitated, though vargottama being in house of

debiitation in both natal and navamsha charts. The Mantra Pada, and

Ascendant are severely afflicted with mandi Gulika Kala and Rahu and

Vyayamsha yukta. Venus becoming Atmakaraka is severely afflicted as

trines from it in natal chart are afflicted. Add to it aspect received by

Moon lord of the 7th in 3rd(marital problems and change of partners) is

again afflicted by aspect of Mercury and Lord of the 6th Sun.I

remember that in 2/8 axis mutual aspect of Mercury-Moon can lead to

loosing money. The problems to dharma sthana by her opting for liasion

with somebody of relogion other than her own indicates that the yoga is

coming through here. Saturn Lagnesh in 5th has rendered first child as a

miscarriage. Again Ketu is making sambandha with Moon being posited in

its house Cancer. Sometimes this indicates mentally compromised

persons in family. Is this the case here? Could you confirm this?> I think

this is a case of severe hallucination as against actual sighting of spirits

as claimed by the lady. She could have severe persecution mania.This is

in line with Saturn in Mars Navamsha being posited in 5th house> The

saving grace for this person loosing her sense of proportion completely

is of course Jupiter aspecting Moon,5th house and 7th house .> If my

logic is correct better results might be obtained by strengthening Venus

and remedies in that direction might help.> Of course this how I view

this chart, others might have different opinion. >

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May 30, 2003

Dear john,

my comments below,

jk

-

Sunil John

vedic astrology

Friday, May 30, 2003 5:45 PM

[vedic astrology] 20th mumbai meeting discussions - Ven exal and deb.

Dear Chandrashekharji and JkdaPardon me for the delay in my response. First and

foremost I thank you sincerely in analyzing the chart, but it has thrown up

some fundamental questions for me as to how easily I am forgetting my basics or

just unclear on it.1. I got your point as to why Venus in the mothers case

needs to be strengthened.2. Do you and Jkda and other learned members see

a good spiritual combination in the childs chart. 3. Ketu is normally said

to be good in the 12th house so why should it afflict Mars - daughters chart.

This is my view. When ketu is with any other planet..it aquires the qualities of

that planet. see Sanjayji's earlier mails in the list. ketu alone in 12th is

like meditating Ganesha..so very good for spiritual purpose. but when it gets

maritan quality in 12th..there are problems. 12th karaka is Sat (loss or

separation or renunciation), Ven (bed pleasure) & Ketu (emancipation, to free

from bondage) ... Mars is enemy to sat & ven. so what will be the effect? even

ketu alone (kujavat ketu) is not good for marital life.

Sir, can you expand expansively on two situations, what happens when in a

hypothetical situation where we consider the naisargik qualities of Ven:-a)

Ven is exalted in Rasi, debilitated in Navamsa, also the AK , how would it

behave.

it is a rajabhanga neecha yoga. benefit of ven exaultation in rashi will go to

others and the native will ultimately suffer.

b) Ven is debilitated in Rasi, and also in Navamsa also the AK , how would

it behave.

difficulties will be very hard to be removed and the teachings by AK will be

very very painfull.Best wishes and thanking you in advanceSunil John

Re: [vedic astrology] 20th discussion meeting proceedings, mumbaiDear

J.K.Dasgupta,I agree that there is KSY in the daughter's horoscope. My own

views on Kalasarpa yogas are a bit non conformist, and as such I always

hesitate to comment on its effects.However it is always a pleasure to discuss

with those, who are knowledgeable.Kalasarpa yoga, as it is called has come in

to fashion in recent years. Most ancient texts do not even mention it. When I

started studying astrology about40 and some years back(and am still studying

it); nobody mentioned the yoga barring a few. It was always saturn's deadly

Sade Sati that was under discussion. KSY came into fashion , at least in my

state of mmaharashtra as Jyotish from western part of Maharashtra and Purohit's

of Trimbakashwara found a link of Nag in Narayana Nag Bali and the Sarpa of

Kalasarpa(And probably found a good market in gullibles). The ritual of

Narayana Nag Bali has to do with Pinda daana and is not for Sarpa dosha (which

is any way different from KSY which is ascribed to KSY).What we tend to forget

is that Dragon's head and Dragon's tail are concepts of western astrology and

not edic astrology. Sarpa Dosha has to do with malefics in three quadrant and

not remotely connected with KSY. About the chart in hand, if we see how the KSY

is to operate, then it might actually be a blessing rather than curse for her as

no planet can have a full 7th house aspect on the sensitive sthanas from 7h

to12th barring Mars ,Jupiter and Saturn who anyway aspect the sthanas that they

should, Mars the 6th Jupiter the Ascendant and Saturn the 2nd which is his own

Rasi in that half of the horoscope. Of couse Ketu and Mars together(Remember

Kujavat Ketu) in 12th house lorded over by Jupiter, a friend, and for Ketu an

exaltation rasi, have their own significance. They are liable to damage her

marital life and being lord of the 11th and 4th might make her go to distant

lands to earn her livelyhood. The saving grace is exchange of house between

Venus and Jupiter, this should, to soe extent modify the illeffects of Venus

debilitation in navamsha.At least this how I see it . I am eagerly awaiting

Sanjayji,s inputs on role of Atmakaraka.With regards,Chandrashekhar. -----

Original Message ----- j.k. dasgupta vedic astrology

; Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:52 AMSubject:

Re: [vedic astrology] 20th discussion meeting proceedings, mumbaiDear

Chandrashekharji, This is the chart of the daughter and i was talking about

this one only. some comments below. however, have you noticed one thing? now a

days lot of mails are being exchanged on curses / preta badha etc. even sjc,

delhi were having classes on this and we in mumbai - unknowingly, started

discussion on this chart. any perticular planetory combination for this?

Regards jk- Chandrashekhar To:

vedic astrology Wednesday, May 28, 2003 4:09 PMSubject:

Re: [vedic astrology] 20th discussion meeting proceedings, mumbaiDear Sunil,If

you look at the daughter's chart what strikes you is connection of venus(Lord

of the 5th) to 9th house(by aspect) as in the case of mother. The venus here

too is debilitated in navamsha and so will give those results. Mars afflicted

by Ketu aspects this venus from 12th house, so possibility of strong and

strange sexual drive in the daughter cannot be ruled out.Moon and Mercury are

together with 8th lord Sun and 6th lord Mercury. Mercury is further afflicted

by Rahu being deposited in his house and similar connection of Buddhipati Venus

with his other house the 9th. Also look at connection of Sat/Jupiter with 5th

house here as in the case of the mother. [jk] above all these affliction it has

KSY also. Mars with Ket may not break the yoga....and again mars+ketu Severe

mental disturbance coupled with escaping in to imaginary realm cannot be ruled

out here too as in the case of the mother but on a different level.It is easy

to pass on something on to pretadosha or badha, the classic yogas occur with

less frequency than is generally believed. Again for any black magic to affect

one, assuming that the practioner is a master; one has to have done something

really bad. Otherwise it affects the practiotioner him/herself. Here again

strength of mind plays a strong role.At least this is how I view this

matter.You must have observed that I usually do not prefer to comment on curses

and posession by spirits. The reason is , I have no way of finding out whether

what ever prediction I made in that regard is correct or not. It is too much

dependent on what a jatak feels about it than what might be correct.This of

course does not mean that those who follow this line are wrong. Just that I do

not feel myself expert enough to comment on things that I have not understoood

in their entirety. [jk] you are very right and i agree with you. About Venus,

yes others have also asked on similar lines. The basic principle of astrology is

that a planet that is strong helps where as a planet which is weak might create

problems to the bhava.That is why we say a debilitated shubha planet will

create problems. Venus when strong teaches one how to control desires and still

enjoy life. The lady's problems have their genesis in a weak Venus and I think

it should help her than harm. Again remember Venus as Atmakaraka has very

different role and the principles of how a graha is taken to be atmakaraka will

reveal that the planet is usually weak. The reason is that it is the planet in

highest degrees, like here it is in the last 6 degrees of sign virgo, where

being even rasi he is Bal (child) hence the childish attitude towards sex of

this lady. Had it been may be Darakaraka he might have given more serious

attitude towards casual sex. That is why strengthening atmakaraka should only

be done when he becomes a yogakaraka as in the instant horoscope and not

otherwise. [jk] you may be correct on this. we shall request Sanjayji and

others to plz comment on this perticular case. Others might have different

views.Hope this helps,Chandrashekhar.-

suniljohn (AT) softhome (DOT) net vedic astrology Tuesday, May

27, 2003 12:32 PM[vedic astrology] 20th discussion meeting

proceedings, mumbaiDear Chandrashekharji,Pranam, some queries on this chart, as

you know I am a beginner and needs to be corrected.As analysed by you, upon

confirmation we got that the girls mother is a bit neurotic. I think JKda

pointed out in another post, that we had earlier thought that the girl is

hallucinating but her daughter has also now started seeing people in the house

and hence her mother is very scared.I attach the daughters chart too for your

perusal.Apart from the case of black magic JKda had pointed out another dosha

of being haunted by spirits. The current house she is staying in was earlier

rented to aboriginals who are known to be able to access spirits very easily it

is said.Sir, you had pointed out earlier that remedies should be for Venus, my

query is would this give adverse results since her past has been odd kind of

sex and its related problems. So would this strengthening of Ven backfire on

her as she is still in two minds to go back to that kind of lifestyle as now

she has her child. But if she goes back to it then problems always comes in. I

presume this is the AK Ven trying to show her the way.Could you kindly comment

on the nature of the coming Ven dasa.As of now the native has started reading

spiritual books after lot of obstacles, is this how the AK is showing the path,

I mean are the results of the coming dasa being experienced a bit in

advance.Best wishes,Sunil JohnDear JK Dasgupta,> Does this not appear to be a

case of sever affliction of 5th house ? The 5th lord is debilitated, though

vargottama being in house of debiitation in both natal and navamsha charts. The

Mantra Pada, and Ascendant are severely afflicted with mandi Gulika Kala and

Rahu and Vyayamsha yukta. Venus becoming Atmakaraka is severely afflicted as

trines from it in natal chart are afflicted. Add to it aspect received by Moon

lord of the 7th in 3rd(marital problems and change of partners) is again

afflicted by aspect of Mercury and Lord of the 6th Sun.I remember that in 2/8

axis mutual aspect of Mercury-Moon can lead to loosing money. The problems to

dharma sthana by her opting for liasion with somebody of relogion other than

her own indicates that the yoga is coming through here. Saturn Lagnesh in 5th

has rendered first child as a miscarriage. Again Ketu is making sambandha with

Moon being posited in its house Cancer. Sometimes this indicates mentally

compromised persons in family. Is this the case here? Could you confirm this?>

I think this is a case of severe hallucination as against actual sighting of

spirits as claimed by the lady. She could have severe persecution mania.This is

in line with Saturn in Mars Navamsha being posited in 5th house> The saving

grace for this person loosing her sense of proportion completely is of course

Jupiter aspecting Moon,5th house and 7th house .> If my logic is correct better

results might be obtained by strengthening Venus and remedies in that direction

might help.> Of course this how I view this chart, others might have different

opinion. >Get your free 15MB mailbox on Lycos Email -

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mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light

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May 30, 2003

Dear Dasguptaji and Other Gurus

Please excuse me for this silly and unwanted interruption. I have a

doubt regarding AK.

You have mentioned here that "teachings by AK will be very very

painfull." If AK is AtmaKarak,how can it create pains. It is supposed

to elevate the person on Atamic level,Spiritual level. So if at all

teaching by AK is destined,should it not be on spiritual level?

Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

AmolMandar

> Sunil John

> vedic astrology

> Friday, May 30, 2003 5:45 PM

> [vedic astrology] 20th mumbai meeting discussions - Ven

exal and deb.

>

> Dear Chandrashekharji and Jkda

>

> Pardon me for the delay in my response. First and foremost I

thank you

> sincerely in analyzing the chart, but it has thrown up some

fundamental

> questions for me as to how easily I am forgetting my basics or

just

> unclear on it.

>

> 1. I got your point as to why Venus in the mothers case

> needs to be strengthened.

> 2. Do you and Jkda and other learned members see a good

> spiritual combination in the childs chart.

> 3. Ketu is normally said to be good in the 12th house so why

> should it afflict Mars - daughters chart.

> This is my view. When ketu is with any other planet..it aquires

the qualities of that planet. see Sanjayji's earlier mails in the

list. ketu alone in 12th is like meditating Ganesha..so very good for

spiritual purpose. but when it gets maritan quality in 12th..there

are problems. 12th karaka is Sat (loss or separation or

renunciation), Ven (bed pleasure) & Ketu (emancipation, to free from

bondage) ... Mars is enemy to sat & ven. so what will be the effect?

even ketu alone (kujavat ketu) is not good for marital life.

>

> Sir, can you expand expansively on two situations, what happens

when

> in a hypothetical situation where we consider the naisargik

qualities of

> Ven:-

>

> a) Ven is exalted in Rasi, debilitated in Navamsa, also the

> AK , how would it behave.

>

> it is a rajabhanga neecha yoga. benefit of ven exaultation in

rashi will go to others and the native will ultimately suffer.

> b) Ven is debilitated in Rasi, and also in Navamsa also the

> AK , how would it behave.

>

> difficulties will be very hard to be removed and the teachings by

AK will be very very painfull.

>

> Best wishes and thanking you in advance

>

> Sunil John

>

> Re: [vedic astrology] 20th discussion meeting

proceedings,

> mumbai

>

> Dear J.K.Dasgupta,I agree that there is KSY in the daughter's

> horoscope. My own views on Kalasarpa yogas are a bit non

conformist,

> and as such I always hesitate to comment on its effects.However

it is

> always a pleasure to discuss with those, who are

> knowledgeable.Kalasarpa yoga, as it is called has come in to

fashion in

> recent years. Most ancient texts do not even mention it. When I

> started studying astrology about40 and some years back(and am

still

> studying it); nobody mentioned the yoga barring a few. It was

always

> saturn's deadly Sade Sati that was under discussion. KSY came

into

> fashion , at least in my state of mmaharashtra as Jyotish from

western

> part of Maharashtra and Purohit's of Trimbakashwara found a link

of

> Nag in Narayana Nag Bali and the Sarpa of Kalasarpa(And probably

> found a good market in gullibles). The ritual of Narayana Nag

Bali has to

> do with Pinda daana and is not for Sarpa dosha (which is any way

> different from KSY which is ascribed to KSY).What we tend to

forget is

> that Dragon's head and Dragon's tail are concepts of western

astrology

> and not edic astrology. Sarpa Dosha has to do with malefics in

three

> quadrant and not remotely connected with KSY. About the chart in

> hand, if we see how the KSY is to operate, then it might actually

be a

> blessing rather than curse for her as no planet can have a full

7th house

> aspect on the sensitive sthanas from 7h to12th barring

Mars ,Jupiter

> and Saturn who anyway aspect the sthanas that they should, Mars

the

> 6th Jupiter the Ascendant and Saturn the 2nd which is his own

Rasi in

> that half of the horoscope. Of couse Ketu and Mars together

> (Remember Kujavat Ketu) in 12th house lorded over by Jupiter, a

> friend, and for Ketu an exaltation rasi, have their own

significance.

> They are liable to damage her marital life and being lord of the

11th and

> 4th might make her go to distant lands to earn her livelyhood.

The

> saving grace is exchange of house between Venus and Jupiter, this

> should, to soe extent modify the illeffects of Venus debilitation

in

> navamsha.At least this how I see it . I am eagerly awaiting

Sanjayji,s

> inputs on role of Atmakaraka.With regards,Chandrashekhar. -----

> Original Message ----- j.k. dasgupta vedic-

> astrology ; Sent:

> Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:52 AMRe: [vedic astrology]

20th

> discussion meeting proceedings, mumbaiDear Chandrashekharji, This

is

> the chart of the daughter and i was talking about this one only.

some

> comments below. however, have you noticed one thing? now a days

lot

> of mails are being exchanged on curses / preta badha etc. even

sjc,

> delhi were having classes on this and we in mumbai - unknowingly,

> started discussion on this chart. any perticular planetory

combination

> for this? Regards jk-

Chandrashekhar

> vedic astrology Wednesday, May 28,

> 2003 4:09 PMRe: [vedic astrology] 20th discussion

meeting

> proceedings, mumbaiDear Sunil,If you look at the daughter's chart

what

> strikes you is connection of venus(Lord of the 5th) to 9th house

(by

> aspect) as in the case of mother. The venus here too is

debilitated in

> navamsha and so will give those results. Mars afflicted by Ketu

aspects

> this venus from 12th house, so possibility of strong and strange

sexual

> drive in the daughter cannot be ruled out.Moon and Mercury are

> together with 8th lord Sun and 6th lord Mercury. Mercury is

further

> afflicted by Rahu being deposited in his house and similar

connection of

> Buddhipati Venus with his other house the 9th. Also look at

connection

> of Sat/Jupiter with 5th house here as in the case of the mother.

[jk]

> above all these affliction it has KSY also. Mars with Ket may not

break

> the yoga....and again mars+ketu Severe mental disturbance coupled

> with escaping in to imaginary realm cannot be ruled out here too

as in

> the case of the mother but on a different level.It is easy to

pass on

> something on to pretadosha or badha, the classic yogas occur with

less

> frequency than is generally believed. Again for any black magic

to

> affect one, assuming that the practioner is a master; one has to

have

> done something really bad. Otherwise it affects the practiotioner

> him/herself. Here again strength of mind plays a strong role.At

least this

> is how I view this matter.You must have observed that I usually

do not

> prefer to comment on curses and posession by spirits. The reason

is , I

> have no way of finding out whether what ever prediction I made in

that

> regard is correct or not. It is too much dependent on what a

jatak feels

> about it than what might be correct.This of course does not mean

that

> those who follow this line are wrong. Just that I do not feel

myself

> expert enough to comment on things that I have not understoood in

> their entirety. [jk] you are very right and i agree with you.

About

> Venus, yes others have also asked on similar lines. The basic

principle of

> astrology is that a planet that is strong helps where as a planet

which is

> weak might create problems to the bhava.That is why we say a

> debilitated shubha planet will create problems. Venus when strong

> teaches one how to control desires and still enjoy life. The

lady's

> problems have their genesis in a weak Venus and I think it should

help

> her than harm. Again remember Venus as Atmakaraka has very

> different role and the principles of how a graha is taken to be

> atmakaraka will reveal that the planet is usually weak. The

reason is

> that it is the planet in highest degrees, like here it is in the

last 6

> degrees of sign virgo, where being even rasi he is Bal (child)

hence the

> childish attitude towards sex of this lady. Had it been may be

> Darakaraka he might have given more serious attitude towards

casual

> sex. That is why strengthening atmakaraka should only be done

when

> he becomes a yogakaraka as in the instant horoscope and not

> otherwise. [jk] you may be correct on this. we shall request

Sanjayji

> and others to plz comment on this perticular case. Others might

have

> different views.Hope this helps,Chandrashekhar.----- Original

Message -

> ---- suniljohn@s... vedic-

> astrology Tuesday, May 27, 2003 12:32

> PM[vedic astrology] 20th discussion meeting proceedings,

> mumbaiDear Chandrashekharji,Pranam, some queries on this chart,

as

> you know I am a beginner and needs to be corrected.As analysed by

> you, upon confirmation we got that the girls mother is a bit

neurotic. I

> think JKda pointed out in another post, that we had earlier

thought that

> the girl is hallucinating but her daughter has also now started

seeing

> people in the house and hence her mother is very scared.I attach

the

> daughters chart too for your perusal.Apart from the case of black

magic

> JKda had pointed out another dosha of being haunted by spirits.

The

> current house she is staying in was earlier rented to aboriginals

who are

> known to be able to access spirits very easily it is said.Sir,

you had

> pointed out earlier that remedies should be for Venus, my query

is

> would this give adverse results since her past has been odd kind

of sex

> and its related problems. So would this strengthening of Ven

backfire on

> her as she is still in two minds to go back to that kind of

lifestyle as now

> she has her child. But if she goes back to it then problems

always comes

> in. I presume this is the AK Ven trying to show her the way.Could

you

> kindly comment on the nature of the coming Ven dasa.As of now the

> native has started reading spiritual books after lot of

obstacles, is this

> how the AK is showing the path, I mean are the results of the

coming

> dasa being experienced a bit in advance.Best wishes,Sunil

JohnDear JK

> Dasgupta,> Does this not appear to be a case of sever affliction

of 5th

> house ? The 5th lord is debilitated, though vargottama being in

house of

> debiitation in both natal and navamsha charts. The Mantra Pada,

and

> Ascendant are severely afflicted with mandi Gulika Kala and Rahu

and

> Vyayamsha yukta. Venus becoming Atmakaraka is severely afflicted

as

> trines from it in natal chart are afflicted. Add to it aspect

received by

> Moon lord of the 7th in 3rd(marital problems and change of

partners) is

> again afflicted by aspect of Mercury and Lord of the 6th Sun.I

> remember that in 2/8 axis mutual aspect of Mercury-Moon can lead

to

> loosing money. The problems to dharma sthana by her opting for

liasion

> with somebody of relogion other than her own indicates that the

yoga is

> coming through here. Saturn Lagnesh in 5th has rendered first

child as a

> miscarriage. Again Ketu is making sambandha with Moon being

posited in

> its house Cancer. Sometimes this indicates mentally compromised

> persons in family. Is this the case here? Could you confirm this?

> I think

> this is a case of severe hallucination as against actual sighting

of spirits

> as claimed by the lady. She could have severe persecution

mania.This is

> in line with Saturn in Mars Navamsha being posited in 5th house>

The

> saving grace for this person loosing her sense of proportion

completely

> is of course Jupiter aspecting Moon,5th house and 7th house .> If

my

> logic is correct better results might be obtained by

strengthening Venus

> and remedies in that direction might help.> Of course this how I

view

> this chart, others might have different opinion. >

>

> Get your free 15MB mailbox on Lycos Email -

http://mail.lycos.co.uk

>

> Sponsor

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

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> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

> Terms of

Service.

May 30, 2003

Hi,

I am only a student, but let me try to answer you. Gurus will correct me if I am wrong.

Atmakaraka (AK) is a very important planet, in the chart it shows the reason of

the birth in which house it is and and which planets in conjuncts / aspects

etc.

The main objective of all of us is moksha. But this can not be attained until we

are all purified. We must pay all the karmic debts before attaining moksha. Only

then we will be purified. And this debt paying can come through the pains and

lessons gained that way. Thus AK shows in which areas we will get the lessons

which often comes in the way of pain and suffering.

Actually it elevate the person to higher level by teaching us necessary lessons

and letting us pay our debts. That is why it often gives us pains.

Hope it is clear now :-)tanvir

What can not happen, can never happen.Which is mine, is forever mine.

Tanvir

Chowdhurytanvir (AT) siriusbb (DOT) com http://www.geocities.com/king_tanvirhttp://www.geocities.com/planetaryastro

-

amolmandar

vedic astrology

Friday, May 30, 2003 9:50 PM

[vedic astrology] Re: 20th mumbai meeting discussions - Ven exal and deb.

Dear Dasguptaji and Other GurusPlease excuse me for this silly and unwanted

interruption. I have a doubt regarding AK.You have mentioned here that

"teachings by AK will be very very painfull." If AK is AtmaKarak,how can it

create pains. It is supposed to elevate the person on Atamic level,Spiritual

level. So if at all teaching by AK is destined,should it not be on spiritual

level?Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.AmolMandar> Sunil John >

vedic astrology > Friday, May 30, 2003 5:45 PM>

[vedic astrology] 20th mumbai meeting discussions - Ven exal and deb.>

> > Dear Chandrashekharji and Jkda> > Pardon me for the delay in my

response. First and foremost I thank you > sincerely in analyzing the chart,

but it has thrown up some fundamental > questions for me as to how easily I

am forgetting my basics or just > unclear on it.> > 1. I got your

point as to why Venus in the mothers case > needs to be strengthened.> 2.

Do you and Jkda and other learned members see a good > spiritual

combination in the childs chart. > 3. Ketu is normally said to be good

in the 12th house so why > should it afflict Mars - daughters chart.> This

is my view. When ketu is with any other planet..it aquires the qualities of that

planet. see Sanjayji's earlier mails in the list. ketu alone in 12th is like

meditating Ganesha..so very good for spiritual purpose. but when it gets

maritan quality in 12th..there are problems. 12th karaka is Sat (loss or

separation or renunciation), Ven (bed pleasure) & Ketu (emancipation, to free

from bondage) ... Mars is enemy to sat & ven. so what will be the effect? even

ketu alone (kujavat ketu) is not good for marital life.> > Sir, can you

expand expansively on two situations, what happens when > in a hypothetical

situation where we consider the naisargik qualities of > Ven:-> > a)

Ven is exalted in Rasi, debilitated in Navamsa, also the > AK , how would it

behave.> > it is a rajabhanga neecha yoga. benefit of ven exaultation in

rashi will go to others and the native will ultimately suffer.> b) Ven

is debilitated in Rasi, and also in Navamsa also the > AK , how would it

behave.> > difficulties will be very hard to be removed and the teachings by

AK will be very very painfull.> > Best wishes and thanking you in advance> >

> Sunil John> > > > > > Re: [vedic astrology] 20th discussion

meeting proceedings, > mumbai> > > Dear J.K.Dasgupta,I agree that there is

KSY in the daughter's > horoscope. My own views on Kalasarpa yogas are a bit

non conformist, > and as such I always hesitate to comment on its

effects.However it is > always a pleasure to discuss with those, who are >

knowledgeable.Kalasarpa yoga, as it is called has come in to fashion in >

recent years. Most ancient texts do not even mention it. When I > started

studying astrology about40 and some years back(and am still > studying it);

nobody mentioned the yoga barring a few. It was always > saturn's deadly Sade

Sati that was under discussion. KSY came into > fashion , at least in my state

of mmaharashtra as Jyotish from western > part of Maharashtra and Purohit's of

Trimbakashwara found a link of > Nag in Narayana Nag Bali and the Sarpa of

Kalasarpa(And probably > found a good market in gullibles). The ritual of

Narayana Nag Bali has to > do with Pinda daana and is not for Sarpa dosha

(which is any way > different from KSY which is ascribed to KSY).What we tend

to forget is > that Dragon's head and Dragon's tail are concepts of western

astrology > and not edic astrology. Sarpa Dosha has to do with malefics in

three > quadrant and not remotely connected with KSY. About the chart in >

hand, if we see how the KSY is to operate, then it might actually be a >

blessing rather than curse for her as no planet can have a full 7th house >

aspect on the sensitive sthanas from 7h to12th barring Mars ,Jupiter > and

Saturn who anyway aspect the sthanas that they should, Mars the > 6th Jupiter

the Ascendant and Saturn the 2nd which is his own Rasi in > that half of the

horoscope. Of couse Ketu and Mars together> (Remember Kujavat Ketu) in 12th

house lorded over by Jupiter, a > friend, and for Ketu an exaltation rasi,

have their own significance. > They are liable to damage her marital life and

being lord of the 11th and > 4th might make her go to distant lands to earn

her livelyhood. The > saving grace is exchange of house between Venus and

Jupiter, this > should, to soe extent modify the illeffects of Venus

debilitation in > navamsha.At least this how I see it . I am eagerly awaiting

Sanjayji,s > inputs on role of Atmakaraka.With regards,Chandrashekhar. -----

> Original Message ----- j.k. dasgupta vedic->

astrology ; > Thursday,

May 29, 2003 11:52 AMRe: [vedic astrology] 20th > discussion meeting

proceedings, mumbaiDear Chandrashekharji, This is > the chart of the daughter

and i was talking about this one only. some > comments below. however, have

you noticed one thing? now a days lot > of mails are being exchanged on

curses / preta badha etc. even sjc, > delhi were having classes on this and

we in mumbai - unknowingly, > started discussion on this chart. any

perticular planetory combination > for this? Regards jk----- Original Message

----- Chandrashekhar > vedic astrology Sent:

Wednesday, May 28, > 2003 4:09 PMRe: [vedic astrology] 20th

discussion meeting > proceedings, mumbaiDear Sunil,If you look at the

daughter's chart what > strikes you is connection of venus(Lord of the 5th)

to 9th house(by > aspect) as in the case of mother. The venus here too is

debilitated in > navamsha and so will give those results. Mars afflicted by

Ketu aspects > this venus from 12th house, so possibility of strong and

strange sexual > drive in the daughter cannot be ruled out.Moon and Mercury

are > together with 8th lord Sun and 6th lord Mercury. Mercury is further >

afflicted by Rahu being deposited in his house and similar connection of >

Buddhipati Venus with his other house the 9th. Also look at connection > of

Sat/Jupiter with 5th house here as in the case of the mother. [jk] > above

all these affliction it has KSY also. Mars with Ket may not break > the

yoga....and again mars+ketu Severe mental disturbance coupled > with escaping

in to imaginary realm cannot be ruled out here too as in > the case of the

mother but on a different level.It is easy to pass on > something on to

pretadosha or badha, the classic yogas occur with less > frequency than is

generally believed. Again for any black magic to > affect one, assuming that

the practioner is a master; one has to have > done something really bad.

Otherwise it affects the practiotioner > him/herself. Here again strength of

mind plays a strong role.At least this > is how I view this matter.You must

have observed that I usually do not > prefer to comment on curses and

posession by spirits. The reason is , I > have no way of finding out whether

what ever prediction I made in that > regard is correct or not. It is too

much dependent on what a jatak feels > about it than what might be

correct.This of course does not mean that > those who follow this line are

wrong. Just that I do not feel myself > expert enough to comment on things

that I have not understoood in > their entirety. [jk] you are very right and

i agree with you. About > Venus, yes others have also asked on similar

lines. The basic principle of > astrology is that a planet that is strong

helps where as a planet which is > weak might create problems to the

bhava.That is why we say a > debilitated shubha planet will create problems.

Venus when strong > teaches one how to control desires and still enjoy life.

The lady's > problems have their genesis in a weak Venus and I think it

should help > her than harm. Again remember Venus as Atmakaraka has very >

different role and the principles of how a graha is taken to be > atmakaraka

will reveal that the planet is usually weak. The reason is > that it is the

planet in highest degrees, like here it is in the last 6 > degrees of sign

virgo, where being even rasi he is Bal (child) hence the > childish attitude

towards sex of this lady. Had it been may be > Darakaraka he might have given

more serious attitude towards casual > sex. That is why strengthening

atmakaraka should only be done when > he becomes a yogakaraka as in the

instant horoscope and not > otherwise. [jk] you may be correct on this. we

shall request Sanjayji > and others to plz comment on this perticular case.

Others might have > different views.Hope this helps,Chandrashekhar.-----

Original Message -> ---- suniljohn@s... vedic->

astrology Tuesday, May 27, 2003 12:32 > PMSubject:

[vedic astrology] 20th discussion meeting proceedings, > mumbaiDear

Chandrashekharji,Pranam, some queries on this chart, as > you know I am a

beginner and needs to be corrected.As analysed by > you, upon confirmation we

got that the girls mother is a bit neurotic. I > think JKda pointed out in

another post, that we had earlier thought that > the girl is hallucinating

but her daughter has also now started seeing > people in the house and hence

her mother is very scared.I attach the > daughters chart too for your

perusal.Apart from the case of black magic > JKda had pointed out another

dosha of being haunted by spirits. The > current house she is staying in was

earlier rented to aboriginals who are > known to be able to access spirits

very easily it is said.Sir, you had > pointed out earlier that remedies

should be for Venus, my query is > would this give adverse results since her

past has been odd kind of sex > and its related problems. So would this

strengthening of Ven backfire on > her as she is still in two minds to go

back to that kind of lifestyle as now > she has her child. But if she goes

back to it then problems always comes > in. I presume this is the AK Ven

trying to show her the way.Could you > kindly comment on the nature of the

coming Ven dasa.As of now the > native has started reading spiritual books

after lot of obstacles, is this > how the AK is showing the path, I mean are

the results of the coming > dasa being experienced a bit in advance.Best

wishes,Sunil JohnDear JK > Dasgupta,> Does this not appear to be a case of

sever affliction of 5th > house ? The 5th lord is debilitated, though

vargottama being in house of > debiitation in both natal and navamsha charts.

The Mantra Pada, and > Ascendant are severely afflicted with mandi Gulika

Kala and Rahu and > Vyayamsha yukta. Venus becoming Atmakaraka is severely

afflicted as > trines from it in natal chart are afflicted. Add to it aspect

received by > Moon lord of the 7th in 3rd(marital problems and change of

partners) is > again afflicted by aspect of Mercury and Lord of the 6th Sun.I

> remember that in 2/8 axis mutual aspect of Mercury-Moon can lead to >

loosing money. The problems to dharma sthana by her opting for liasion > with

somebody of relogion other than her own indicates that the yoga is > coming

through here. Saturn Lagnesh in 5th has rendered first child as a >

miscarriage. Again Ketu is making sambandha with Moon being posited in > its

house Cancer. Sometimes this indicates mentally compromised > persons in

family. Is this the case here? Could you confirm this?> I think > this is a

case of severe hallucination as against actual sighting of spirits > as

claimed by the lady. She could have severe persecution mania.This is > in

line with Saturn in Mars Navamsha being posited in 5th house> The > saving

grace for this person loosing her sense of proportion completely > is of

course Jupiter aspecting Moon,5th house and 7th house .> If my > logic is

correct better results might be obtained by strengthening Venus > and

remedies in that direction might help.> Of course this how I view > this

chart, others might have different opinion. >> > Get your free 15MB mailbox

on Lycos Email - http://mail.lycos.co.uk> > > > Sponsor >

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May 30, 2003

Hi Tanvir

It is true that we are all meant to be Mokshafied sooner or later. AK

will help in getting Mokshafied possibly in this Janam. But my

question is why with sufferings only? If AK has to lead us to Moksha

then it could have been by putting us in the company of real

Spiritual Guru and by making us to perform some real social work.

Assuming that moksha can be obtained only suffering is not that

convincing.

Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

AmolMandar

vedic astrology, "Tanvir" <tanvir@s...> wrote:

> Hi,

> I am only a student, but let me try to answer you. Gurus will

correct me if I am wrong.

>

> Atmakaraka (AK) is a very important planet, in the chart it shows

the reason of the birth in which house it is and and which planets in

conjuncts / aspects etc.

>

> The main objective of all of us is moksha. But this can not be

attained until we are all purified. We must pay all the karmic debts

before attaining moksha. Only then we will be purified. And this debt

paying can come through the pains and lessons gained that way. Thus

AK shows in which areas we will get the lessons which often comes in

the way of pain and suffering.

>

> Actually it elevate the person to higher level by teaching us

necessary lessons and letting us pay our debts. That is why it often

gives us pains.

>

> Hope it is clear now :-)

>

> tanvir

>

> What can not happen, can never happen.

> Which is mine, is forever mine.

>

> Tanvir Chowdhury

> tanvir@s...

> http://www.geocities.com/king_tanvir

> http://www.geocities.com/planetaryastro

>

> -

> amolmandar

> vedic astrology

> Friday, May 30, 2003 9:50 PM

> [vedic astrology] Re: 20th mumbai meeting discussions -

Ven exal and deb.

>

> Dear Dasguptaji and Other Gurus

>

> Please excuse me for this silly and unwanted interruption. I have

a

> doubt regarding AK.

>

> You have mentioned here that "teachings by AK will be very very

> painfull." If AK is AtmaKarak,how can it create pains. It is

supposed

> to elevate the person on Atamic level,Spiritual level. So if at

all

> teaching by AK is destined,should it not be on spiritual level?

>

> Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

>

> AmolMandar

>

> > Sunil John

> > vedic astrology

> > Friday, May 30, 2003 5:45 PM

> > [vedic astrology] 20th mumbai meeting discussions -

Ven

> exal and deb.

> >

> > Dear Chandrashekharji and Jkda

> >

> > Pardon me for the delay in my response. First and foremost I

> thank you

> > sincerely in analyzing the chart, but it has thrown up some

> fundamental

> > questions for me as to how easily I am forgetting my basics

or

> just

> > unclear on it.

> >

> > 1. I got your point as to why Venus in the mothers case

> > needs to be strengthened.

> > 2. Do you and Jkda and other learned members see a good

> > spiritual combination in the childs chart.

> > 3. Ketu is normally said to be good in the 12th house so

why

> > should it afflict Mars - daughters chart.

> > This is my view. When ketu is with any other planet..it

aquires

> the qualities of that planet. see Sanjayji's earlier mails in the

> list. ketu alone in 12th is like meditating Ganesha..so very good

for

> spiritual purpose. but when it gets maritan quality in

12th..there

> are problems. 12th karaka is Sat (loss or separation or

> renunciation), Ven (bed pleasure) & Ketu (emancipation, to free

from

> bondage) ... Mars is enemy to sat & ven. so what will be the

effect?

> even ketu alone (kujavat ketu) is not good for marital life.

> >

> > Sir, can you expand expansively on two situations, what

happens

> when

> > in a hypothetical situation where we consider the naisargik

> qualities of

> > Ven:-

> >

> > a) Ven is exalted in Rasi, debilitated in Navamsa, also

the

> > AK , how would it behave.

> >

> > it is a rajabhanga neecha yoga. benefit of ven exaultation in

> rashi will go to others and the native will ultimately suffer.

> > b) Ven is debilitated in Rasi, and also in Navamsa also

the

> > AK , how would it behave.

> >

> > difficulties will be very hard to be removed and the

teachings by

> AK will be very very painfull.

> >

> > Best wishes and thanking you in advance

> >

> > Sunil John

> >

> > Re: [vedic astrology] 20th discussion meeting

> proceedings,

> > mumbai

> >

> > Dear J.K.Dasgupta,I agree that there is KSY in the daughter's

> > horoscope. My own views on Kalasarpa yogas are a bit non

> conformist,

> > and as such I always hesitate to comment on its

effects.However

> it is

> > always a pleasure to discuss with those, who are

> > knowledgeable.Kalasarpa yoga, as it is called has come in to

> fashion in

> > recent years. Most ancient texts do not even mention it. When

I

> > started studying astrology about40 and some years back(and am

> still

> > studying it); nobody mentioned the yoga barring a few. It was

> always

> > saturn's deadly Sade Sati that was under discussion. KSY came

> into

> > fashion , at least in my state of mmaharashtra as Jyotish

from

> western

> > part of Maharashtra and Purohit's of Trimbakashwara found a

link

> of

> > Nag in Narayana Nag Bali and the Sarpa of Kalasarpa(And

probably

> > found a good market in gullibles). The ritual of Narayana Nag

> Bali has to

> > do with Pinda daana and is not for Sarpa dosha (which is any

way

> > different from KSY which is ascribed to KSY).What we tend to

> forget is

> > that Dragon's head and Dragon's tail are concepts of western

> astrology

> > and not edic astrology. Sarpa Dosha has to do with malefics

in

> three

> > quadrant and not remotely connected with KSY. About the chart

in

> > hand, if we see how the KSY is to operate, then it might

actually

> be a

> > blessing rather than curse for her as no planet can have a

full

> 7th house

> > aspect on the sensitive sthanas from 7h to12th barring

> Mars ,Jupiter

> > and Saturn who anyway aspect the sthanas that they should,

Mars

> the

> > 6th Jupiter the Ascendant and Saturn the 2nd which is his own

> Rasi in

> > that half of the horoscope. Of couse Ketu and Mars together

> > (Remember Kujavat Ketu) in 12th house lorded over by Jupiter,

a

> > friend, and for Ketu an exaltation rasi, have their own

> significance.

> > They are liable to damage her marital life and being lord of

the

> 11th and

> > 4th might make her go to distant lands to earn her

livelyhood.

> The

> > saving grace is exchange of house between Venus and Jupiter,

this

> > should, to soe extent modify the illeffects of Venus

debilitation

> in

> > navamsha.At least this how I see it . I am eagerly awaiting

> Sanjayji,s

> > inputs on role of Atmakaraka.With regards,Chandrashekhar. ---

--

> > Original Message ----- j.k. dasgupta vedic-

> > astrology ;

Sent:

> > Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:52 AMRe: [vedic astrology]

> 20th

> > discussion meeting proceedings, mumbaiDear Chandrashekharji,

This

> is

> > the chart of the daughter and i was talking about this one

only.

> some

> > comments below. however, have you noticed one thing? now a

days

> lot

> > of mails are being exchanged on curses / preta badha etc.

even

> sjc,

> > delhi were having classes on this and we in mumbai -

unknowingly,

> > started discussion on this chart. any perticular planetory

> combination

> > for this? Regards jk-

> Chandrashekhar

> > vedic astrology Wednesday, May 28,

> > 2003 4:09 PMRe: [vedic astrology] 20th discussion

> meeting

> > proceedings, mumbaiDear Sunil,If you look at the daughter's

chart

> what

> > strikes you is connection of venus(Lord of the 5th) to 9th

house

> (by

> > aspect) as in the case of mother. The venus here too is

> debilitated in

> > navamsha and so will give those results. Mars afflicted by

Ketu

> aspects

> > this venus from 12th house, so possibility of strong and

strange

> sexual

> > drive in the daughter cannot be ruled out.Moon and Mercury

are

> > together with 8th lord Sun and 6th lord Mercury. Mercury is

> further

> > afflicted by Rahu being deposited in his house and similar

> connection of

> > Buddhipati Venus with his other house the 9th. Also look at

> connection

> > of Sat/Jupiter with 5th house here as in the case of the

mother.

> [jk]

> > above all these affliction it has KSY also. Mars with Ket may

not

> break

> > the yoga....and again mars+ketu Severe mental disturbance

coupled

> > with escaping in to imaginary realm cannot be ruled out here

too

> as in

> > the case of the mother but on a different level.It is easy to

> pass on

> > something on to pretadosha or badha, the classic yogas occur

with

> less

> > frequency than is generally believed. Again for any black

magic

> to

> > affect one, assuming that the practioner is a master; one has

to

> have

> > done something really bad. Otherwise it affects the

practiotioner

> > him/herself. Here again strength of mind plays a strong

role.At

> least this

> > is how I view this matter.You must have observed that I

usually

> do not

> > prefer to comment on curses and posession by spirits. The

reason

> is , I

> > have no way of finding out whether what ever prediction I

made in

> that

> > regard is correct or not. It is too much dependent on what a

> jatak feels

> > about it than what might be correct.This of course does not

mean

> that

> > those who follow this line are wrong. Just that I do not feel

> myself

> > expert enough to comment on things that I have not

understoood in

> > their entirety. [jk] you are very right and i agree with

you.

> About

> > Venus, yes others have also asked on similar lines. The basic

> principle of

> > astrology is that a planet that is strong helps where as a

planet

> which is

> > weak might create problems to the bhava.That is why we say a

> > debilitated shubha planet will create problems. Venus when

strong

> > teaches one how to control desires and still enjoy life. The

> lady's

> > problems have their genesis in a weak Venus and I think it

should

> help

> > her than harm. Again remember Venus as Atmakaraka has very

> > different role and the principles of how a graha is taken to

be

> > atmakaraka will reveal that the planet is usually weak. The

> reason is

> > that it is the planet in highest degrees, like here it is in

the

> last 6

> > degrees of sign virgo, where being even rasi he is Bal

(child)

> hence the

> > childish attitude towards sex of this lady. Had it been may

be

> > Darakaraka he might have given more serious attitude towards

> casual

> > sex. That is why strengthening atmakaraka should only be done

> when

> > he becomes a yogakaraka as in the instant horoscope and not

> > otherwise. [jk] you may be correct on this. we shall request

> Sanjayji

> > and others to plz comment on this perticular case. Others

might

> have

> > different views.Hope this helps,Chandrashekhar.----- Original

> Message -

> > ---- suniljohn@s... vedic-

> > astrology Tuesday, May 27, 2003 12:32

> > PM[vedic astrology] 20th discussion meeting

proceedings,

> > mumbaiDear Chandrashekharji,Pranam, some queries on this

chart,

> as

> > you know I am a beginner and needs to be corrected.As

analysed by

> > you, upon confirmation we got that the girls mother is a bit

> neurotic. I

> > think JKda pointed out in another post, that we had earlier

> thought that

> > the girl is hallucinating but her daughter has also now

started

> seeing

> > people in the house and hence her mother is very scared.I

attach

> the

> > daughters chart too for your perusal.Apart from the case of

black

> magic

> > JKda had pointed out another dosha of being haunted by

spirits.

> The

> > current house she is staying in was earlier rented to

aboriginals

> who are

> > known to be able to access spirits very easily it is

said.Sir,

> you had

> > pointed out earlier that remedies should be for Venus, my

query

> is

> > would this give adverse results since her past has been odd

kind

> of sex

> > and its related problems. So would this strengthening of Ven

> backfire on

> > her as she is still in two minds to go back to that kind of

> lifestyle as now

> > she has her child. But if she goes back to it then problems

> always comes

> > in. I presume this is the AK Ven trying to show her the

way.Could

> you

> > kindly comment on the nature of the coming Ven dasa.As of now

the

> > native has started reading spiritual books after lot of

> obstacles, is this

> > how the AK is showing the path, I mean are the results of the

> coming

> > dasa being experienced a bit in advance.Best wishes,Sunil

> JohnDear JK

> > Dasgupta,> Does this not appear to be a case of sever

affliction

> of 5th

> > house ? The 5th lord is debilitated, though vargottama being

in

> house of

> > debiitation in both natal and navamsha charts. The Mantra

Pada,

> and

> > Ascendant are severely afflicted with mandi Gulika Kala and

Rahu

> and

> > Vyayamsha yukta. Venus becoming Atmakaraka is severely

afflicted

> as

> > trines from it in natal chart are afflicted. Add to it aspect

> received by

> > Moon lord of the 7th in 3rd(marital problems and change of

> partners) is

> > again afflicted by aspect of Mercury and Lord of the 6th

Sun.I

> > remember that in 2/8 axis mutual aspect of Mercury-Moon can

lead

> to

> > loosing money. The problems to dharma sthana by her opting

for

> liasion

> > with somebody of relogion other than her own indicates that

the

> yoga is

> > coming through here. Saturn Lagnesh in 5th has rendered first

> child as a

> > miscarriage. Again Ketu is making sambandha with Moon being

> posited in

> > its house Cancer. Sometimes this indicates mentally

compromised

> > persons in family. Is this the case here? Could you confirm

this?

> > I think

> > this is a case of severe hallucination as against actual

sighting

> of spirits

> > as claimed by the lady. She could have severe persecution

> mania.This is

> > in line with Saturn in Mars Navamsha being posited in 5th

house>

> The

> > saving grace for this person loosing her sense of proportion

> completely

> > is of course Jupiter aspecting Moon,5th house and 7th

house .> If

> my

> > logic is correct better results might be obtained by

> strengthening Venus

> > and remedies in that direction might help.> Of course this

how I

> view

> > this chart, others might have different opinion. >

> >

> > Get your free 15MB mailbox on Lycos Email -

> http://mail.lycos.co.uk

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> > Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

>

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> > Terms of

> Service.

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

> Your use of is subject to

May 30, 2003

Hi,

I think I have read in Jaimini Sutras that AK gives good or bad results as per

it's position and strength etc. - this is what I remember but I am not sure -

but hopefully I am right :-)I never said that AK will always give pain rather I

said that the lessons can come in painful way - since you asked, "If AK is

AtmaKarak,how can it create pains. It is supposed to elevate the person on

Atamic level,Spiritual level" So I tried to explain that elevating to atmic

level needs pain sometimes, do not you think so?Of course AK can give company

of Guru. But I think the nature does what it feels necessary, right? So

depending on what we need, it creates pain or adopts any other ways.

This is what I feel - the nature gives us lessons and purifies us, and the AK

shows the lessons we get in this birth.

Best wishes,Tanvir

What can not happen, can never happen.Which is mine, is forever mine.

Tanvir

Chowdhurytanvir (AT) siriusbb (DOT) com http://www.geocities.com/king_tanvirhttp://www.geocities.com/planetaryastro

-

amolmandar

vedic astrology

Friday, May 30, 2003 10:46 PM

[vedic astrology] Re: 20th mumbai meeting discussions - Ven exal and deb.

Hi TanvirIt is true that we are all meant to be Mokshafied sooner or later. AK

will help in getting Mokshafied possibly in this Janam. But my question is why

with sufferings only? If AK has to lead us to Moksha then it could have been by

putting us in the company of real Spiritual Guru and by making us to perform

some real social work. Assuming that moksha can be obtained only suffering is

not that convincing. Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.AmolMandar--- In

vedic astrology, "Tanvir" <tanvir@s...> wrote:> Hi, > I am only

a student, but let me try to answer you. Gurus will correct me if I am wrong.> >

Atmakaraka (AK) is a very important planet, in the chart it shows the reason of

the birth in which house it is and and which planets in conjuncts / aspects

etc.> > The main objective of all of us is moksha. But this can not be attained

until we are all purified. We must pay all the karmic debts before attaining

moksha. Only then we will be purified. And this debt paying can come through

the pains and lessons gained that way. Thus AK shows in which areas we will get

the lessons which often comes in the way of pain and suffering.> > Actually it

elevate the person to higher level by teaching us necessary lessons and letting

us pay our debts. That is why it often gives us pains.> > Hope it is clear now

:-)> > tanvir> > > > What can not happen, can never happen.> Which is mine, is

forever mine.> > Tanvir Chowdhury> tanvir@s...>

http://www.geocities.com/king_tanvir> http://www.geocities.com/planetaryastro>

> > > > ----- Original Message

----- > amolmandar > vedic astrology > Sent:

Friday, May 30, 2003 9:50 PM> [vedic astrology] Re: 20th mumbai

meeting discussions - Ven exal and deb.> > > Dear Dasguptaji and Other Gurus>

> Please excuse me for this silly and unwanted interruption. I have a >

doubt regarding AK.> > You have mentioned here that "teachings by AK will be

very very > painfull." If AK is AtmaKarak,how can it create pains. It is

supposed > to elevate the person on Atamic level,Spiritual level. So if at

all > teaching by AK is destined,should it not be on spiritual level?> >

Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.> > AmolMandar> > > > > > >

Sunil John > > vedic astrology > > Friday,

May 30, 2003 5:45 PM> > [vedic astrology] 20th mumbai meeting

discussions - Ven > exal and deb.> > > > > > Dear Chandrashekharji

and Jkda> > > > Pardon me for the delay in my response. First and

foremost I > thank you > > sincerely in analyzing the chart, but it has

thrown up some > fundamental > > questions for me as to how easily I am

forgetting my basics or > just > > unclear on it.> > > > 1. I

got your point as to why Venus in the mothers case > > needs to be

strengthened.> > 2. Do you and Jkda and other learned members see a

good > > spiritual combination in the childs chart. > > 3. Ketu is

normally said to be good in the 12th house so why > > should it afflict Mars

- daughters chart.> > This is my view. When ketu is with any other

planet..it aquires > the qualities of that planet. see Sanjayji's earlier

mails in the > list. ketu alone in 12th is like meditating Ganesha..so very

good for > spiritual purpose. but when it gets maritan quality in 12th..there

> are problems. 12th karaka is Sat (loss or separation or > renunciation),

Ven (bed pleasure) & Ketu (emancipation, to free from > bondage) ... Mars is

enemy to sat & ven. so what will be the effect? > even ketu alone (kujavat

ketu) is not good for marital life.> > > > Sir, can you expand

expansively on two situations, what happens > when > > in a hypothetical

situation where we consider the naisargik > qualities of > > Ven:-> > >

> a) Ven is exalted in Rasi, debilitated in Navamsa, also the > >

AK , how would it behave.> > > > it is a rajabhanga neecha yoga. benefit

of ven exaultation in > rashi will go to others and the native will

ultimately suffer.> > b) Ven is debilitated in Rasi, and also in

Navamsa also the > > AK , how would it behave.> > > > difficulties

will be very hard to be removed and the teachings by > AK will be very very

painfull.> > > > Best wishes and thanking you in advance> > > > > >

Sunil John> > > > > > > > > > > > Re:

[vedic astrology] 20th discussion meeting > proceedings, > > mumbai> >

> > > > Dear J.K.Dasgupta,I agree that there is KSY in the daughter's >

> horoscope. My own views on Kalasarpa yogas are a bit non > conformist, >

> and as such I always hesitate to comment on its effects.However > it is >

> always a pleasure to discuss with those, who are > >

knowledgeable.Kalasarpa yoga, as it is called has come in to > fashion in >

> recent years. Most ancient texts do not even mention it. When I > >

started studying astrology about40 and some years back(and am > still > >

studying it); nobody mentioned the yoga barring a few. It was > always > >

saturn's deadly Sade Sati that was under discussion. KSY came > into > >

fashion , at least in my state of mmaharashtra as Jyotish from > western >

> part of Maharashtra and Purohit's of Trimbakashwara found a link > of >

> Nag in Narayana Nag Bali and the Sarpa of Kalasarpa(And probably > >

found a good market in gullibles). The ritual of Narayana Nag > Bali has to >

> do with Pinda daana and is not for Sarpa dosha (which is any way > >

different from KSY which is ascribed to KSY).What we tend to > forget is >

> that Dragon's head and Dragon's tail are concepts of western > astrology

> > and not edic astrology. Sarpa Dosha has to do with malefics in >

three > > quadrant and not remotely connected with KSY. About the chart in

> > hand, if we see how the KSY is to operate, then it might actually >

be a > > blessing rather than curse for her as no planet can have a full >

7th house > > aspect on the sensitive sthanas from 7h to12th barring >

Mars ,Jupiter > > and Saturn who anyway aspect the sthanas that they

should, Mars > the > > 6th Jupiter the Ascendant and Saturn the 2nd which

is his own > Rasi in > > that half of the horoscope. Of couse Ketu and

Mars together> > (Remember Kujavat Ketu) in 12th house lorded over by

Jupiter, a > > friend, and for Ketu an exaltation rasi, have their own >

significance. > > They are liable to damage her marital life and being lord

of the > 11th and > > 4th might make her go to distant lands to earn her

livelyhood. > The > > saving grace is exchange of house between Venus and

Jupiter, this > > should, to soe extent modify the illeffects of Venus

debilitation > in > > navamsha.At least this how I see it . I am eagerly

awaiting > Sanjayji,s > > inputs on role of Atmakaraka.With

regards,Chandrashekhar. ----- > > Original Message ----- j.k.

dasgupta vedic-> > astrology ;

> > Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:52

AMRe: [vedic astrology] > 20th > > discussion meeting

proceedings, mumbaiDear Chandrashekharji, This > is > > the chart of the

daughter and i was talking about this one only. > some > > comments

below. however, have you noticed one thing? now a days > lot > > of mails

are being exchanged on curses / preta badha etc. even > sjc, > > delhi

were having classes on this and we in mumbai - unknowingly, > > started

discussion on this chart. any perticular planetory > combination > > for

this? Regards jk- > Chandrashekhar > >

vedic astrology Wednesday, May 28, > > 2003 4:09

PMRe: [vedic astrology] 20th discussion > meeting > >

proceedings, mumbaiDear Sunil,If you look at the daughter's chart > what >

> strikes you is connection of venus(Lord of the 5th) to 9th house> (by >

> aspect) as in the case of mother. The venus here too is > debilitated in >

> navamsha and so will give those results. Mars afflicted by Ketu >

aspects > > this venus from 12th house, so possibility of strong and

strange > sexual > > drive in the daughter cannot be ruled out.Moon and

Mercury are > > together with 8th lord Sun and 6th lord Mercury. Mercury is

> further > > afflicted by Rahu being deposited in his house and similar >

connection of > > Buddhipati Venus with his other house the 9th. Also look

at > connection > > of Sat/Jupiter with 5th house here as in the case of

the mother. > [jk] > > above all these affliction it has KSY also. Mars

with Ket may not > break > > the yoga....and again mars+ketu Severe

mental disturbance coupled > > with escaping in to imaginary realm cannot

be ruled out here too > as in > > the case of the mother but on a

different level.It is easy to > pass on > > something on to pretadosha or

badha, the classic yogas occur with > less > > frequency than is generally

believed. Again for any black magic > to > > affect one, assuming that the

practioner is a master; one has to > have > > done something really bad.

Otherwise it affects the practiotioner > > him/herself. Here again strength

of mind plays a strong role.At > least this > > is how I view this

matter.You must have observed that I usually > do not > > prefer to

comment on curses and posession by spirits. The reason > is , I > > have

no way of finding out whether what ever prediction I made in > that > >

regard is correct or not. It is too much dependent on what a > jatak feels >

> about it than what might be correct.This of course does not mean > that >

> those who follow this line are wrong. Just that I do not feel > myself >

> expert enough to comment on things that I have not understoood in > >

their entirety. [jk] you are very right and i agree with you. > About > >

Venus, yes others have also asked on similar lines. The basic > principle of

> > astrology is that a planet that is strong helps where as a planet >

which is > > weak might create problems to the bhava.That is why we say a >

> debilitated shubha planet will create problems. Venus when strong > >

teaches one how to control desires and still enjoy life. The > lady's > >

problems have their genesis in a weak Venus and I think it should > help > >

her than harm. Again remember Venus as Atmakaraka has very > > different

role and the principles of how a graha is taken to be > > atmakaraka will

reveal that the planet is usually weak. The > reason is > > that it is

the planet in highest degrees, like here it is in the > last 6 > >

degrees of sign virgo, where being even rasi he is Bal (child) > hence the >

> childish attitude towards sex of this lady. Had it been may be > >

Darakaraka he might have given more serious attitude towards > casual > >

sex. That is why strengthening atmakaraka should only be done > when > >

he becomes a yogakaraka as in the instant horoscope and not > > otherwise.

[jk] you may be correct on this. we shall request > Sanjayji > > and

others to plz comment on this perticular case. Others might > have > >

different views.Hope this helps,Chandrashekhar.----- Original > Message ->

> ---- suniljohn@s... vedic-> > astrology Sent:

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 12:32 > > PM[vedic astrology] 20th discussion

meeting proceedings, > > mumbaiDear Chandrashekharji,Pranam, some queries on

this chart, > as > > you know I am a beginner and needs to be corrected.As

analysed by > > you, upon confirmation we got that the girls mother is a bit

> neurotic. I > > think JKda pointed out in another post, that we had

earlier > thought that > > the girl is hallucinating but her daughter has

also now started > seeing > > people in the house and hence her mother is

very scared.I attach > the > > daughters chart too for your perusal.Apart

from the case of black > magic > > JKda had pointed out another dosha of

being haunted by spirits. > The > > current house she is staying in was

earlier rented to aboriginals > who are > > known to be able to access

spirits very easily it is said.Sir, > you had > > pointed out earlier

that remedies should be for Venus, my query > is > > would this give

adverse results since her past has been odd kind > of sex > > and its

related problems. So would this strengthening of Ven > backfire on > >

her as she is still in two minds to go back to that kind of > lifestyle as

now > > she has her child. But if she goes back to it then problems >

always comes > > in. I presume this is the AK Ven trying to show her the

way.Could > you > > kindly comment on the nature of the coming Ven

dasa.As of now the > > native has started reading spiritual books after lot

of > obstacles, is this > > how the AK is showing the path, I mean are the

results of the > coming > > dasa being experienced a bit in advance.Best

wishes,Sunil > JohnDear JK > > Dasgupta,> Does this not appear to be a

case of sever affliction > of 5th > > house ? The 5th lord is

debilitated, though vargottama being in > house of > > debiitation in

both natal and navamsha charts. The Mantra Pada, > and > > Ascendant are

severely afflicted with mandi Gulika Kala and Rahu > and > > Vyayamsha

yukta. Venus becoming Atmakaraka is severely afflicted > as > > trines

from it in natal chart are afflicted. Add to it aspect > received by > >

Moon lord of the 7th in 3rd(marital problems and change of > partners) is >

> again afflicted by aspect of Mercury and Lord of the 6th Sun.I > >

remember that in 2/8 axis mutual aspect of Mercury-Moon can lead > to > >

loosing money. The problems to dharma sthana by her opting for > liasion > >

with somebody of relogion other than her own indicates that the > yoga is >

> coming through here. Saturn Lagnesh in 5th has rendered first > child as

a > > miscarriage. Again Ketu is making sambandha with Moon being >

posited in > > its house Cancer. Sometimes this indicates mentally

compromised > > persons in family. Is this the case here? Could you confirm

this?> > I think > > this is a case of severe hallucination as against

actual sighting > of spirits > > as claimed by the lady. She could have

severe persecution > mania.This is > > in line with Saturn in Mars

Navamsha being posited in 5th house> > The > > saving grace for this

person loosing her sense of proportion > completely > > is of course

Jupiter aspecting Moon,5th house and 7th house .> If > my > > logic is

correct better results might be obtained by > strengthening Venus > > and

remedies in that direction might help.> Of course this how I > view > >

this chart, others might have different opinion. >> > > > Get your free

15MB mailbox on Lycos Email - > http://mail.lycos.co.uk> > > > > > >

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May 30, 2003

Hi Tanvir

No. I dont think that AatmaKarak can create sufferings in order to

elevate us to Spiritual level.

If it is Atma, there is no pain,no sufferings. Body may have all

these things but Atama is above all. It only suffers when it is

outside the body. So sufferings to Body by Atamakarak in order to

get Moksha is difficult to understand. Why to make life more

difficult by putting nature and AK together?

Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

AmolMandar

vedic astrology, "Tanvir" <tanvir@s...> wrote:

> Hi,

> I think I have read in Jaimini Sutras that AK gives good or bad

results as per it's position and strength etc. - this is what I

remember but I am not sure - but hopefully I am right :-)

>

> I never said that AK will always give pain rather I said that the

lessons can come in painful way - since you asked, "If AK is

AtmaKarak,how can it create pains. It is supposed to elevate the

person on Atamic level,Spiritual level" So I tried to explain that

elevating to atmic level needs pain sometimes, do not you think so?

>

> Of course AK can give company of Guru. But I think the nature does

what it feels necessary, right? So depending on what we need, it

creates pain or adopts any other ways.

>

> This is what I feel - the nature gives us lessons and purifies us,

and the AK shows the lessons we get in this birth.

>

> Best wishes,

> Tanvir

>

> What can not happen, can never happen.

> Which is mine, is forever mine.

>

> Tanvir Chowdhury

> tanvir@s...

> http://www.geocities.com/king_tanvir

> http://www.geocities.com/planetaryastro

>

> -

> amolmandar

> vedic astrology

> Friday, May 30, 2003 10:46 PM

> [vedic astrology] Re: 20th mumbai meeting discussions -

Ven exal and deb.

>

> Hi Tanvir

>

> It is true that we are all meant to be Mokshafied sooner or

later. AK

> will help in getting Mokshafied possibly in this Janam. But my

> question is why with sufferings only? If AK has to lead us to

Moksha

> then it could have been by putting us in the company of real

> Spiritual Guru and by making us to perform some real social work.

> Assuming that moksha can be obtained only suffering is not that

> convincing.

>

> Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

>

> AmolMandar

>

> vedic astrology, "Tanvir" <tanvir@s...>

wrote:

> > Hi,

> > I am only a student, but let me try to answer you. Gurus will

> correct me if I am wrong.

> >

> > Atmakaraka (AK) is a very important planet, in the chart it

shows

> the reason of the birth in which house it is and and which

planets in

> conjuncts / aspects etc.

> >

> > The main objective of all of us is moksha. But this can not be

> attained until we are all purified. We must pay all the karmic

debts

> before attaining moksha. Only then we will be purified. And this

debt

> paying can come through the pains and lessons gained that way.

Thus

> AK shows in which areas we will get the lessons which often comes

in

> the way of pain and suffering.

> >

> > Actually it elevate the person to higher level by teaching us

> necessary lessons and letting us pay our debts. That is why it

often

> gives us pains.

> >

> > Hope it is clear now :-)

> >

> > tanvir

> >

> > What can not happen, can never happen.

> > Which is mine, is forever mine.

> >

> > Tanvir Chowdhury

> > tanvir@s...

> > http://www.geocities.com/king_tanvir

> > http://www.geocities.com/planetaryastro

> >

> > -

> > amolmandar

> > vedic astrology

> > Friday, May 30, 2003 9:50 PM

> > [vedic astrology] Re: 20th mumbai meeting

discussions -

> Ven exal and deb.

> >

> > Dear Dasguptaji and Other Gurus

> >

> > Please excuse me for this silly and unwanted interruption. I

have

> a

> > doubt regarding AK.

> >

> > You have mentioned here that "teachings by AK will be very

very

> > painfull." If AK is AtmaKarak,how can it create pains. It is

> supposed

> > to elevate the person on Atamic level,Spiritual level. So if

at

> all

> > teaching by AK is destined,should it not be on spiritual

level?

> >

> > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

> >

> > AmolMandar

> >

> > > Sunil John

> > > vedic astrology

> > > Friday, May 30, 2003 5:45 PM

> > > [vedic astrology] 20th mumbai meeting

discussions -

> Ven

> > exal and deb.

> > >

> > > Dear Chandrashekharji and Jkda

> > >

> > > Pardon me for the delay in my response. First and

foremost I

> > thank you

> > > sincerely in analyzing the chart, but it has thrown up

some

> > fundamental

> > > questions for me as to how easily I am forgetting my

basics

> or

> > just

> > > unclear on it.

> > >

> > > 1. I got your point as to why Venus in the mothers

case

> > > needs to be strengthened.

> > > 2. Do you and Jkda and other learned members see a

good

> > > spiritual combination in the childs chart.

> > > 3. Ketu is normally said to be good in the 12th

house so

> why

> > > should it afflict Mars - daughters chart.

> > > This is my view. When ketu is with any other planet..it

> aquires

> > the qualities of that planet. see Sanjayji's earlier mails in

the

> > list. ketu alone in 12th is like meditating Ganesha..so very

good

> for

> > spiritual purpose. but when it gets maritan quality in

> 12th..there

> > are problems. 12th karaka is Sat (loss or separation or

> > renunciation), Ven (bed pleasure) & Ketu (emancipation, to

free

> from

> > bondage) ... Mars is enemy to sat & ven. so what will be the

> effect?

> > even ketu alone (kujavat ketu) is not good for marital life.

> > >

> > > Sir, can you expand expansively on two situations, what

> happens

> > when

> > > in a hypothetical situation where we consider the

naisargik

> > qualities of

> > > Ven:-

> > >

> > > a) Ven is exalted in Rasi, debilitated in Navamsa,

also

> the

> > > AK , how would it behave.

> > >

> > > it is a rajabhanga neecha yoga. benefit of ven

exaultation in

> > rashi will go to others and the native will ultimately suffer.

> > > b) Ven is debilitated in Rasi, and also in Navamsa

also

> the

> > > AK , how would it behave.

> > >

> > > difficulties will be very hard to be removed and the

> teachings by

> > AK will be very very painfull.

> > >

> > > Best wishes and thanking you in advance

> > >

> > > Sunil John

> > >

> > > Re: [vedic astrology] 20th discussion meeting

> > proceedings,

> > > mumbai

> > >

> > > Dear J.K.Dasgupta,I agree that there is KSY in the

daughter's

> > > horoscope. My own views on Kalasarpa yogas are a bit non

> > conformist,

> > > and as such I always hesitate to comment on its

> effects.However

> > it is

> > > always a pleasure to discuss with those, who are

> > > knowledgeable.Kalasarpa yoga, as it is called has come in

to

> > fashion in

> > > recent years. Most ancient texts do not even mention it.

When

> I

> > > started studying astrology about40 and some years back

(and am

> > still

> > > studying it); nobody mentioned the yoga barring a few. It

was

> > always

> > > saturn's deadly Sade Sati that was under discussion. KSY

came

> > into

> > > fashion , at least in my state of mmaharashtra as Jyotish

> from

> > western

> > > part of Maharashtra and Purohit's of Trimbakashwara found

a

> link

> > of

> > > Nag in Narayana Nag Bali and the Sarpa of Kalasarpa(And

> probably

> > > found a good market in gullibles). The ritual of Narayana

Nag

> > Bali has to

> > > do with Pinda daana and is not for Sarpa dosha (which is

any

> way

> > > different from KSY which is ascribed to KSY).What we tend

to

> > forget is

> > > that Dragon's head and Dragon's tail are concepts of

western

> > astrology

> > > and not edic astrology. Sarpa Dosha has to do with

malefics

> in

> > three

> > > quadrant and not remotely connected with KSY. About the

chart

> in

> > > hand, if we see how the KSY is to operate, then it might

> actually

> > be a

> > > blessing rather than curse for her as no planet can have

a

> full

> > 7th house

> > > aspect on the sensitive sthanas from 7h to12th barring

> > Mars ,Jupiter

> > > and Saturn who anyway aspect the sthanas that they

should,

> Mars

> > the

> > > 6th Jupiter the Ascendant and Saturn the 2nd which is his

own

> > Rasi in

> > > that half of the horoscope. Of couse Ketu and Mars

together

> > > (Remember Kujavat Ketu) in 12th house lorded over by

Jupiter,

> a

> > > friend, and for Ketu an exaltation rasi, have their own

> > significance.

> > > They are liable to damage her marital life and being lord

of

> the

> > 11th and

> > > 4th might make her go to distant lands to earn her

> livelyhood.

> > The

> > > saving grace is exchange of house between Venus and

Jupiter,

> this

> > > should, to soe extent modify the illeffects of Venus

> debilitation

> > in

> > > navamsha.At least this how I see it . I am eagerly

awaiting

> > Sanjayji,s

> > > inputs on role of Atmakaraka.With

regards,Chandrashekhar. ---

> --

> > > Original Message ----- j.k. dasgupta vedic-

> > > astrology ;

> Sent:

> > > Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:52 AMRe: [vedic-

astrology]

> > 20th

> > > discussion meeting proceedings, mumbaiDear

Chandrashekharji,

> This

> > is

> > > the chart of the daughter and i was talking about this

one

> only.

> > some

> > > comments below. however, have you noticed one thing? now

a

> days

> > lot

> > > of mails are being exchanged on curses / preta badha etc.

> even

> > sjc,

> > > delhi were having classes on this and we in mumbai -

> unknowingly,

> > > started discussion on this chart. any perticular

planetory

> > combination

> > > for this? Regards jk-

> > Chandrashekhar

> > > vedic astrology Wednesday, May

28,

> > > 2003 4:09 PMRe: [vedic astrology] 20th

discussion

> > meeting

> > > proceedings, mumbaiDear Sunil,If you look at the

daughter's

> chart

> > what

> > > strikes you is connection of venus(Lord of the 5th) to

9th

> house

> > (by

> > > aspect) as in the case of mother. The venus here too is

> > debilitated in

> > > navamsha and so will give those results. Mars afflicted

by

> Ketu

> > aspects

> > > this venus from 12th house, so possibility of strong and

> strange

> > sexual

> > > drive in the daughter cannot be ruled out.Moon and

Mercury

> are

> > > together with 8th lord Sun and 6th lord Mercury. Mercury

is

> > further

> > > afflicted by Rahu being deposited in his house and

similar

> > connection of

> > > Buddhipati Venus with his other house the 9th. Also look

at

> > connection

> > > of Sat/Jupiter with 5th house here as in the case of the

> mother.

> > [jk]

> > > above all these affliction it has KSY also. Mars with Ket

may

> not

> > break

> > > the yoga....and again mars+ketu Severe mental disturbance

> coupled

> > > with escaping in to imaginary realm cannot be ruled out

here

> too

> > as in

> > > the case of the mother but on a different level.It is

easy to

> > pass on

> > > something on to pretadosha or badha, the classic yogas

occur

> with

> > less

> > > frequency than is generally believed. Again for any black

> magic

> > to

> > > affect one, assuming that the practioner is a master; one

has

> to

> > have

> > > done something really bad. Otherwise it affects the

> practiotioner

> > > him/herself. Here again strength of mind plays a strong

> role.At

> > least this

> > > is how I view this matter.You must have observed that I

> usually

> > do not

> > > prefer to comment on curses and posession by spirits. The

> reason

> > is , I

> > > have no way of finding out whether what ever prediction I

> made in

> > that

> > > regard is correct or not. It is too much dependent on

what a

> > jatak feels

> > > about it than what might be correct.This of course does

not

> mean

> > that

> > > those who follow this line are wrong. Just that I do not

feel

> > myself

> > > expert enough to comment on things that I have not

> understoood in

> > > their entirety. [jk] you are very right and i agree with

> you.

> > About

> > > Venus, yes others have also asked on similar lines. The

basic

> > principle of

> > > astrology is that a planet that is strong helps where as

a

> planet

> > which is

> > > weak might create problems to the bhava.That is why we

say a

> > > debilitated shubha planet will create problems. Venus

when

> strong

> > > teaches one how to control desires and still enjoy life.

The

> > lady's

> > > problems have their genesis in a weak Venus and I think

it

> should

> > help

> > > her than harm. Again remember Venus as Atmakaraka has

very

> > > different role and the principles of how a graha is taken

to

> be

> > > atmakaraka will reveal that the planet is usually weak.

The

> > reason is

> > > that it is the planet in highest degrees, like here it is

in

> the

> > last 6

> > > degrees of sign virgo, where being even rasi he is Bal

> (child)

> > hence the

> > > childish attitude towards sex of this lady. Had it been

may

> be

> > > Darakaraka he might have given more serious attitude

towards

> > casual

> > > sex. That is why strengthening atmakaraka should only be

done

> > when

> > > he becomes a yogakaraka as in the instant horoscope and

not

> > > otherwise. [jk] you may be correct on this. we shall

request

> > Sanjayji

> > > and others to plz comment on this perticular case.

Others

> might

> > have

> > > different views.Hope this helps,Chandrashekhar.-----

Original

> > Message -

> > > ---- suniljohn@s... vedic-

> > > astrology Tuesday, May 27, 2003

12:32

> > > PM[vedic astrology] 20th discussion meeting

> proceedings,

> > > mumbaiDear Chandrashekharji,Pranam, some queries on this

> chart,

> > as

> > > you know I am a beginner and needs to be corrected.As

> analysed by

> > > you, upon confirmation we got that the girls mother is a

bit

> > neurotic. I

> > > think JKda pointed out in another post, that we had

earlier

> > thought that

> > > the girl is hallucinating but her daughter has also now

> started

> > seeing

> > > people in the house and hence her mother is very scared.I

> attach

> > the

> > > daughters chart too for your perusal.Apart from the case

of

> black

> > magic

> > > JKda had pointed out another dosha of being haunted by

> spirits.

> > The

> > > current house she is staying in was earlier rented to

> aboriginals

> > who are

> > > known to be able to access spirits very easily it is

> said.Sir,

> > you had

> > > pointed out earlier that remedies should be for Venus, my

> query

> > is

> > > would this give adverse results since her past has been

odd

> kind

> > of sex

> > > and its related problems. So would this strengthening of

Ven

> > backfire on

> > > her as she is still in two minds to go back to that kind

of

> > lifestyle as now

> > > she has her child. But if she goes back to it then

problems

> > always comes

> > > in. I presume this is the AK Ven trying to show her the

> way.Could

> > you

> > > kindly comment on the nature of the coming Ven dasa.As of

now

> the

> > > native has started reading spiritual books after lot of

> > obstacles, is this

> > > how the AK is showing the path, I mean are the results of

the

> > coming

> > > dasa being experienced a bit in advance.Best wishes,Sunil

> > JohnDear JK

> > > Dasgupta,> Does this not appear to be a case of sever

> affliction

> > of 5th

> > > house ? The 5th lord is debilitated, though vargottama

being

> in

> > house of

> > > debiitation in both natal and navamsha charts. The Mantra

> Pada,

> > and

> > > Ascendant are severely afflicted with mandi Gulika Kala

and

> Rahu

> > and

> > > Vyayamsha yukta. Venus becoming Atmakaraka is severely

> afflicted

> > as

> > > trines from it in natal chart are afflicted. Add to it

aspect

> > received by

> > > Moon lord of the 7th in 3rd(marital problems and change

of

> > partners) is

> > > again afflicted by aspect of Mercury and Lord of the 6th

> Sun.I

> > > remember that in 2/8 axis mutual aspect of Mercury-Moon

can

> lead

> > to

> > > loosing money. The problems to dharma sthana by her

opting

> for

> > liasion

> > > with somebody of relogion other than her own indicates

that

> the

> > yoga is

> > > coming through here. Saturn Lagnesh in 5th has rendered

first

> > child as a

> > > miscarriage. Again Ketu is making sambandha with Moon

being

> > posited in

> > > its house Cancer. Sometimes this indicates mentally

> compromised

> > > persons in family. Is this the case here? Could you

confirm

> this?

> > > I think

> > > this is a case of severe hallucination as against actual

> sighting

> > of spirits

> > > as claimed by the lady. She could have severe persecution

> > mania.This is

> > > in line with Saturn in Mars Navamsha being posited in 5th

> house>

> > The

> > > saving grace for this person loosing her sense of

proportion

> > completely

> > > is of course Jupiter aspecting Moon,5th house and 7th

> house .> If

> > my

> > > logic is correct better results might be obtained by

> > strengthening Venus

> > > and remedies in that direction might help.> Of course

this

> how I

> > view

> > > this chart, others might have different opinion. >

> > >

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May 31, 2003

Dear Sunil,

First principle to be borne in mind while assessing role of nodes is that they

give rsults of the planet with whom they are posited. here Ketu is with his

principal similar planet Mars(Kujavat Ketu). Then again the pair is 6/8 with

Jupiter and Saturn the planets that are relevant in achieving Dhnyana and

posited in Jupiter's Rasi. Ketu is also in his exaltation house. I did not

elaborate on this as some times feelings run high on the list and people let

emotions intermingle with astrology or one's perception of truth. However since

I know you to be a true seeker of knowledge, I will try to explain why Ketu am

Mars together in 12th would not lead to spiritualism. Mars has to do more with

dambha(Outwardly Show, though it may not always mean insincerity ) than

spritualism. You will observe Mars having an influence even in charts in saints

propogating bhakti-marga as the only path to be followed, or putting up one form

of deity as "The" deity over its various forms. So this combination of fiery

planets in a fiery sign without any beneficial aspect on them are likely to

destroy the other signification of the 12th house , which is bed pleasures and

by extention marital afairs. this is again confirmed when we see mars aspecting

the 7th house ans Saturn too aspecting 7th and Kalatrakaraka Venus.

About your next query. Navamsha is the essence of planetary strengths and Natal

chart indicates their fruits, so say the learned. Venus though exalted in Rasi

would give results of debilitation if debilitated in navamsha.Again as he is

atmakaraka this indicates his having achieved highest degrees, and thus he

would be further weakened if too much away from Bhava Madhya, is the way I see

it.

In the second case Venus would be somewhat more strengthened being Vargottama,as

a matter of fact he would be much stronger but for being Atmakaraka for reasons

already explained above. He would be able to cause more control over matters

sexual.

However , these are my views, others might have different views.

Chandrashekhar.

----

Dear Chandrashekharji and JkdaPardon me for the delay in my response. First and

foremost I thank you sincerely in analyzing the chart, but it has thrown up some

fundamental questions for me as to how easily I am forgetting my basics or just

unclear on it.1. I got your point as to why Venus in the mothers case

needs to be strengthened.2. Do you and Jkda and other learned members see

a good spiritual combination in the childs chart. 3. Ketu is normally said

to be good in the 12th house so why should it afflict Mars - daughters

chart.Sir, can you expand expansively on two situations, what happens when in a

hypothetical situation where we consider the naisargik qualities of Ven:-a)

Ven is exalted in Rasi, debilitated in Navamsa, also the AK , how would it

behave.b) Ven is debilitated in Rasi, and also in Navamsa also the AK ,

how would it behave.Best wishes and thanking you in advanceSunil John