Enquiry to Narasimha

[Guest guest]

Dear Narasimha,

I hope you are well,

Respected Sanjay Rath has indirectly requested me and others to stay out of

great discussions between you and other very learned members of the list. Which

I accept because I am not very learned and also I commited the chief offence.

However I do wish to enquire something separately from you. Not in a challenging

spirit. But rather to educate myself on your view point.

This Vedic Astrology List that we members have been attracted to, derives its

basis from Sri Achyuta Das who is considered one of the 5 great disciples of

Lord Caitanya. The word "discipe" to me would mean that they all agreed with

Lord Caitanya's philosophy.

I know you have not really wished to venture into Caitanya Caritamrita as its

verses are written in Bengali. But it is well known that Lord Caitanya was a

very great scholar and through debate He defeated all mayavad schools of

thought that claimed Sri Krishna derived from Brahman (rather than being the

source of Brahman).

I don't know whether you view Lord Caitanya as an exapansion of Sri Radha and

Sri Krishna or whether you believe that He is derived from Brahman. Or even

whether you view Him as a great saint.....

But I'm just wondering how you reconcile following in the line of Achyuta Dasa

but disagreeing with (or arguing against) Lord Caitanya's ultimate point?

I present some verses from the Caitanya Caritamrita. I am so sorry if very

learned members of the list feel this is a lot of unneccessary noise.

Please do forgive my offences.

Kasim

 

Madhya-lila, Chapter 25TEXT 49yei grantha-karta cahe sva-mata sthapitesastrera

sahaja artha nahe tanha haiteTRANSLATION "Anyone who wants to establish his own

opinion or philosophy certainly cannot explain any scripture according to the

principle of direct interpretation."TEXT 50mimamsaka kahe -- isvara haya

karmera angasankhya kahe -- jagatera prakrti karana-prasangaTRANSLATION "The

Mimamsaka philosophers conclude that if there is a God, He is subjected to our

fruitive activities. Similarly, the Sankhya philosophers who analyze the

cosmic manifestation say that the cause of the cosmos is material nature."TEXT

51nyaya kahe -- paramanu haite visva hayamayavadi nirvisesa-brahme hetu

kayaTRANSLATION "The followers of nyaya, the philosophy of logic, maintain that

the atom is the cause of the cosmic manifestation, and the Mayavadi philosophers

maintain that the impersonal Brahman effulgence is the cause of the cosmic

manifestation."TEXT 52patanjala kahe -- isvara haya svarupa-jnanaveda-mate kahe

tanre svayam-bhagavanTRANSLATION "The Patanjala philosophers say that when one

is self-realized, he understands the Lord. Similarly, according to the Vedas

and Vedic principles, the original cause is the Supreme Personality of

Godhead."TEXT 53chayera chaya mata vyasa kaila avartanasei saba sutra lana

vedanta-varnanaTRANSLATION "After studying the six philosophical theses,

Vyasadeva completely summarized them all in the codes of Vedanta

philosophy."TEXT 54vedanta-mate -- brahma sakara nirupananirguna vyatireke

tinho haya ta sagunaTRANSLATION "According to Vedanta philosophy, the Absolute

Truth is a person. When the word nirguna [without qualities] is used, it is to

be understood that the Lord has attributes that are totally spiritual."TEXT

55parama karana isvara keha nahi manesva-sva-mata sthape para-matera

khandaneTRANSLATION "Of the philosophers mentioned, none really cares for the

Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes. They are always busy

refuting the philosophical theories of others and establishing their own."TEXT

56tate chaya darsana haite tattva nahi janimahajana yei kahe sei satya

maniTRANSLATION "By studying the six philosophical theories, one cannot reach

the Absolute Truth. It is therefore our duty to follow the path of the

mahajanas, the authorities. Whatever they say should be accepted as the

supreme truth."PURPORT (by Srila Prabhupada) In his Amrta-pravaha-bhasya, Srila

Bhaktivinoda Thakura gives the following summary of the six philosophical

porcesses. Prakasananda admitted that Sripada Sankaracarya, being very eager

to establish his philosophy of monism, took shelter of the Vedanta philosophy

and tried to explain it in his own way. The fact is, however, that if one

accepts the existence of God, he certainly cannot establish the theory of

monism. For this reason Sankaracarya refuted all kinds of Vedic literature that

establishes the supremacy of the Personality of Godhead. In various ways,

Sankaracarya has tried to refute Vedic literature. Throughout the

world,ninety-nine percent of the philosophers following in the footsteps of

Sankaracarya refuse to accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Instead they

try to establish their own opinions. It is typical of mundane philosophers to

want to establish their own opinions and refute those of others. Therefore: (1)

The Mimamsaka philosophers, following the principles of Jaimini, stres s

fruitive activity and say that if there is a God, He must be under the laws of

fruitive activity. In other words, if one performs his duties very nicely in

the material world, God is obliged to give one the desired result. According to

these philosoph ers, there is no need to become a devotee of God. If one

strictly follows moral principles, one will be recognized by the Lord, who will

give the desired reward. Such philosophers do not accept the Vedic principle of

bhakti-yoga. Instead, they give stre ss to following ones prescribed duty.

(2) Atheistic Sankhya philosophers like Kapila analyze the material elements

very scrutinizingly and thereby come to the conclusion that material nature is

the cause of everything. They do not accept the Supreme Pe rsonality of

Godhead as the cause of all causes. (3) Nyayaphilosophers like Gautama and

Kanada have accepted a combination of atoms as the original cause of the

creation. (4) Mayavadi philosophers say that everything is an illusion. Headed

by philosophers like Astavakra, they stress the impersonal Brahman effulgence as

the cause of everything. (5) Philosophers following the precepts of Patanjali

practice raja-yoga. Theyimagine a form of the Absolute Truth within many

forms. That is their process of self-realization. All five of these

philosophies completely reject the predominance of the Supreme Personality of

Godhead and stive to establish their own philosophical theories. However,

Srila Vyasadeva wrote the Vedanta-sutra and, taking the essence of all Vedic

liter ature, established the supremacy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

All five of thephilosophers mentioned above understand that impersonal Brahman

is without material qualities, and they believe that when the Personality of

Godhead appears, He is con taminated and covered by the material qualities.

The technical term used is saguna. They say, "saguna Brahman" and "nirguna

Brahman". Nirguna Brahman means impersonal, and saguna Brahman means

"accepting material contamination." More or less, this kind of philosophical

speculation is called Mayavada philosophy. The fact is, however, that the

Absolute Truth has nothing to do with material qualities because He is

transcendental. He is always complete with full spiritual qualities. The five

philosopher s mentioned above do not accept LordVisnu as the Supreme Personality

of Godhead, but they are very busy refuting the philosophy of other schools.

There are six kinds of philosophical processes in India. Because Vyasadeva is

the Vedic authority, he is known as Vedavyasa. His philosophical explanation

of the Vedanta-sutra is accepted by the devotees. As Krsna confirms in

Bhagavad-gita (15.15): sarvasya caham hrdi sannivistomattah smrtir jnanam

apohanam cavadais ca sarvair aham eva vedyovedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham "I am

seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and

forgetfulness. By all the Vedas, I am to be known; indeed, I am the compiler

of Vedanta, and I am the knower of the Vedas." The ultimate goal of studying

all Vedic literature is the acceptance of Krsna as the Supreme Personality of

Godhead. This Krsna consciousness movement is propagating the philosophical

conclusion of Srila Vyasadeva and following other great acaryas like

Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Visnusvami, Nimbarka and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu

Himself. TEXT 57tarko pratisthah srutayo vibhinnanasav rsir yasya matam na

bhinnamdharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayammahajano yena gatah sa

panthahTRANSLATION "Dry arguments are inconclusive. A great personality whose

opinion does not differ from others is not considered a great sage. Simply by

studying the Vedas, which are variegated, one cannot come to the right path by

which religious principles are under stood. The solid truth of religious

principles is hidden in the heart of an unadulterated self-realized person.

Consequently, as the sastras confirm, one should accept whatever progressive

path the mahajanas advocate."TEXT 58sri-krsna-caitanya-vani -- amrtera

dharatinho ye kahaye vastu sei tattva -- saraTRANSLATION "The words of Sri

Caitanya Mahaprabhu are a shower of nectar. Whatever He concludes to be the

ultimate truth is indeed the summum bonum of all spiritual knowledge." TEXT

92tanra sutrera artha kona jiva nahi janeataeva apane sutrartha kariyache

vyakhyaneTRANSLATION "The purpose of the Vedanta-sutra is very difficult for an

ordinary person to understand, but Vyasadeva, out of his causeless mercy, has

personally explained the meaning."

TEXT 93yei sutra-karta, se yadi karaye vyakhyanatabe sutrera mula artha lokera

haya jnanaTRANSLATION "If the Vedanta-sutra is explained by Vyasadeva himself,

who has written it, its original meaning can be understood by the people in

general."TEXT 94pranavera yei artha, gayatrite se hayasei artha catuh-slokite

vivariya kayaTRANSLATION "The meaning of the sound vibration omkara is present

in the Gayatri mantra. The same is elaborately explained in the four slokas of

Srimad-Bhagavatam known as catuh-sloki."TEXT 95brahmare isvara catuh-sloki ye

kahilabrahma narade sei upadesa kailaTRANSLATION "Whatever was spoken by the

Supreme Personality of Godhead to Lord Brahma in the four verses of

Srimad-Bhagavatam, was also explained to Narada by Lord Brahma."TEXT 96narada

sei artha vyasere kahilasuni veda-vyasa mane vicara karilaTRANSLATION "Whatever

Lord Brahma told Narada Muni was again explained by Narada Muni to Vyasadeva.

Vyasadeva later considered these instructions in his mind."TEXT 97ei artha --

amara sutrera vyakhyanurupabhagavata klariba sutrera

bhasya-svarupaTRANSLATION "Srila Vyasadeva considered that whatever he had

received from Narada Muni as an explanation of omkara he would elaborately

explain in his book Srimad-Bhagavatam as a commentary on Brahma-sutra."TEXT

98cari-veda-upanisade yata kichu hayatara artha lana vyas karila

sancayaTRANSLATION "Vyasadeva collected whatever Vedic conclusions were in the

four Vedas and 108 Upanisads and placed them in the codes of the

Vedanta-sutra."TEXT 99yei sutre yei rk -- visay-vacanabhagavate sei rk sloke

nibandhanaTRANSLATION "In Vedanta-sutra, the purpose of all Vedic knowledge is

explained, and in Srimad-Bhagavatam the same purpose has been explained in

eighteen thousand verses."TEXT 100ataeva brahma-sutrera bhasya --

sr-bhagavatabhagavata-sloka upanisat kahe eka mataTRANSLATION "That which is

explained in the verses of Srimad-Bhagavatam and in the Upanisads serves the

same purpose."TEXT 34sruti-purana kahe -- krsnera cic-chakti-vilasataha nahi

mani pandita kare upahasaTRANSLATION "Vedic literatures, the Upanisads, the

Brahma-sutra and the Puranas all describe the activities of the spiritual

potency of the Lord. If one cannot accept the personal activities of the Lord,

he jokes foolishly and gives an impersonal description."TEXT 35cid-ananda

krsna-vigraha mayika kari maniei bada papa -- satya caitanyera

vaniTRANSLATION "The Mayavadis do not recognize the personal form of the Lord

as spiritual and full of bliss. This is a great sin. Sri Caitanya

Mahaprabhu's statements are actually factual."PURPORT (Srila Prabhupada) Sri

Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement especially aims at defeating the Mayavada

conclusion about the Absolute Truth. Since the memebers of the Mayavada school

cannot understand the spiritual form of the Lord, they incorrectly think the

Lords form is also made of material energy. They think that He is covered by

a material body just like other living beings. Due to this offensive

understanding, they cannot recognize that Sri Krsnas personal form is

transcendental, not material. Their conclusion is a g reat offense at the

lotus feet of the Lord. As explained by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Sri Krsna has

His eternal, blissful form that is fullof knowledge, and all Vaisnava acaryas

accept this. That is the proper understanding of the Absolute Truth. TEXT

41sutrera parinama-vada taha na maniyavivarta-vada sthape vyasa bhranta

baliyaTRANSLATION "Not accepting the transformation of energy, Sripada

Sankaracarya has tried to establish the theory of illusion under the plea that

Vyasadeva has made a mistake." Adi-lila, Chapter 7TEXT 106prabhu kahe,

vedanta-sutra isvara-vacanavyasa-rupe kaila yaha sri-narayanaPURPORT (Srila

Prabhupada) Srila Vyasadeva, the powerful incarnation of Narayana, compiled

Vedanta-sutra, and in order to protect it from unauthorized commentaries, he

personally composed Srimad-Bhagavatam on the instruction of his spiritual

master, Narada Muni, as athe original c ommentary on Vedanta-sutra. Besides

Srimad-Bhagavatam, there are commentaries on theVedanta-sutra composed by all

the major Vaisnava acaryas, and in each of them devotional service to the Lord

is described very explicitly. Only those who follow Sankara's commentary have

described Vedanta-sutra in an impersonal way, without reference to

Visnu-bhakti, or devotional service to the Lord, Visnu. Generally people very

much appreciate thisSariraka-bhasya or impersonal description of the

Vedanta-sutra, but all commentaries which are devoid of devotional service to

Lord Visnu must be considered to differ in purpose from the original

Vedanta-sutra. In other words, Lord Caitanya definitely confirmed that the

commentaries or bhasyas written by the Vaisnava acar yas on the basis of

devotional service to Lord Visnu, and not the Sariraka-bhasya of Sankaracarya,

give the actual explanation of Vedanta-sutra. TEXT 110tanhara nahika dosa

isvara-ajna panagaunartha karila mukhya artha

acchadiyaTRANSLATION "Sankaracarya is not at fault, for he has thus covered the

real purpose of the Vedas under the order of the Supreme Personality of

Godhead."PURPORT (Srila Prabhupada) The purpose of the discussion in the

Upanisads and Vedanta-sutra is to philosopically establish the personal feature

of the Aboslute Truth. The impersonalists, however, in order to establish their

philosophy, accept these discussions in terms of laksana -vrtti, or indirect

meanings. Thus instead of being tattva-vada, or in search of the Absolute

Truth,they become Mayavada, or illusioned by the material energy. When Sri

Visnusvami, one of the four acaryas of the Vaisnava cult, presented his thesis

on the subject matter of suddhadvaita-vada, immediately the Mayavadis took

advantage of this philosophy and tried to establish their advaita-vada or

kevaladvaita-vada. To defeat this kevaladvaita-vada SriRamanujacarya presented

his philosophy as visistadva ita-vada, and Sri Madhvacarya presented his

philosophy of tattva-vada, both of which are stumbling blocks to the Mayavadis

because they defeat their philosophy in scrupulous detail. Students of Vedic

philosophy know very well how strongly Sri Ramanujacary as visistadvaita-vada

and Sri Madhvacarya'stattva-vada contest the impersonal Mayavada philosophy.

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, however, accepted the direct meaning of the Vedanta

philosophy and thus defeated the Mayavada philosophy immediately. He opined in

this connection that anyone who follows the principles of the Sariraka-bhasya

is doomed.

 

 

 

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