Difference between information and inner wisdom

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

Since the discussion is on God or diff Gods, pls allow me to quote a few things

here from some other source. Same discussion of which God is superior has gone

for ages between hindus and muslims and see who profits, we must all be blind

not to know where we are going ashtray. Going ashtray though me maybe:

 

A true Master is not the one with the most followers, but one who creates the most Masters.

A true leader is not the one with the most followers but one who creates the most leaders.

A true kind is not the one with the most subjects, but one who leads the most to royalty.

A true teacher is not the one with the most knowledge, but one who causes the

most others to have knowledge.

And a true God is not the One with the most servants, but One who serves the

most, thereby making Gods of all others.

For this is the both the goal and the glory of God: that his subjects shall be

no more, and that all shall know God not as the unattainable, but as the

unavoidable.

 

You cannot not be “saved”, there is no hell except not knowing this.

 

The moment someone says my way is the ONLY way, there will be others who would

say the opposite and set their life to prove that. All miseries in human life

from wars to personal problems are the result of this elitist mentally of men

and even religious intolerance that is bred into a child the most innocent of

ones right from early days.

 

Maybe the world would be a better place if we change internally our attitude and

belief system with just two lines:

 

· Mine is not the only way, but one of the ways to achieve the same

thing.

 

· What would Love Do? ( use this whenever you are stuck in any situation

of life or personal relations or anything)

 

Instead of telling Krishna is the one who is above Shiva, followers of Shiva are

lower caste etc, why not ask others and oneself to find out the truth

themselves, ask them to meditate on Shiva and Krishna and find out who is the

greatest, maybe a child will be the first to find the answer and the correct

one.

 

I would love to go more into this but will try and restrict myself.

 

Pls teach our children that any religious text which says one God is above the

other, is only clearly stating that the person who wrote or re-wrote that text

never understood God in the first place to write about God. Infact conduct

survey and lets find out that children know this instinctively, the reason why

they prefer to be without any religion and rather develop to know their inner

God in their own way.

 

A smaller example is how our history books today are being re-written and by whom J J

 

 

Regards,

 

Srivasan Khan

 

 

 

vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c...>

wrote:> -----------------> "You don't see the

Lotus feet of the Lord. Why are you fighting over what his face looks like?">

> -- His Highness Chandrashekhara Saraswati>

-----------------> > Om Hariharaabhyaam

Namah> Namaste Chandrashekhar ji,> > I have addressed these points in the

past, but they keep coming up every now and then. But I cannot keep quiet

because some very wrong notions are being popularized by some biased people.>

> Giving quotes from a Purana showing that God X is superior to God Y serves no

purpose. Quotes from puranas are a double edged sword! If a Vaishnava gives a

quote from Garuda Purana saying that Vishnu is supreme, a Shaiva can give a

quote from Linga Purana saying that Shiva is supreme.> > Linga purana says

that Vishnu, Brahma and the entire universe came from Shiva. It also contains

an interesting story. According to that story, an argument arose between Brahma

and Vishnu on who was superior. They were arguing. Then Shiva expressed in front

of them as a brilliant Jyotirlinga (column of light and fire) that extended in

two directions. Brahma and Vishnu wanted to find the ends of the Jyotirlinga.

They went in the upward and downward directions (that is why dasamsa rulerships

include Brahma and Achyuta/Vishnu in addition to the rulers of the 8

directions). They agreed that whoever found the end first would win. Brahma and

Vishnu went in their respective directions and searched for the end for days.

Neither found the end after many days and finally they both gave up, agreeing

that neither of them is supreme and it is *Shiva* who is the supreme one! Shiva

then appeared in front of them and taught them,"we three are part of the same

supreme Parabrahman that pervades this universe. We three have three specific

roles. We should not fight with each other on who is superior."> > Also, there

is a story in Mahabharata written by Vyasa (see Drona parva). Narayana engaged

in an extreme penance (tapas) for 60,000 years. Then Shiva was happy with the

penance and came before Narayana along with Parvati to give a great boon to

Narayana in the form of Nara. Later, Narayana and Nara took the forms of

Krishna and Arjuna. In that penance episode, Shiva was described as "the Lord

of all gods" (sarvadevairapeeswaram) and as "smaller than the smallest sub-atom

and greater than the greatest entity" (aNeeyasaamaNeeyaamsam brihadbhyascha

brihattaram). The detailed description there lauds Shiva as the greatest and

supreme deity of the universe.> > Of course, one can find many more examples

where one god or the other is said to be the supreme one. In Scriptures and

religious literature, it is customary to find glorification of each god

(Vishnu, Shiva and Shakti) saying that the rest of the gods came from that

particular god and they all pray to him/her and bow at his/her feet.> > All

these should make any intelligent person aware that pursuing this concept of

"superiority" to its logical end, as if we were taking about simple human

beings, is quite childish. After all, Skandopanishat says "yatha shivamayo

vishnur evam vishnumayah shivah" (thanks to Sarbani for the quote). It means

"just as Vishnu is filled with Shiva, so is Shiva filled with Vishnu".> >

Vishnu has been depicted as a worshipper of Shiva. His avataras such as Rama

and Krishna also worshipped Shiva. Shiva, on the other hand, has been depicted

as a great worshipper of Vishnu. The name "Shiva" appears in Vishnu's 1000

names. The names "Vishnu" and "Hari" appear in Shiva's 1000 names. All these

things and the contradictory scriptural references should make one think.> >

Overall, looking at all the scriptural references, we can conclude the

following:> > Vishnu is superior to Shiva. Shiva is superior to Vishnu. Vishnu

worshipped Shiva and was blessed by Shiva. Shiva worshipped Vishnu and was

blessed by Vishnu. Vishnu is a superset of Shiva. Shiva is a superset of

Vishnu.> > Does it make sense? Or, does it sound contradictory? If so, perhaps

you need to change your way of thinking. After all, every assertion made above

has scriptural support!!> > To enable you to come to terms with the apparent

contradiction, I'll go back to my favorite analogy. Even though it sounds

simplistic, it's very profound and is the perfect analogy here.> > In the

world of finite numbers, x > y, x = y and x < y cannot be true simultaneously.

Only one of them can be correct. But, in the world of infinite numbers, they

all can be true simultaneously! If x and y are two infinite numbers, then x can

be greater than y, equal to y and less than y, all at the same time!> > Human

beings are similar to finite numbers. The concept of god or divinity is akin to

the concept of infinity. Don't expect your simplistic finite thinking to capture

the realities of divinity perfectly. If you don't realize this and expect some

simplistic and rigid hierarchy among gods, you are only kidding yourselves. You

will then have to ignore some scriptures and stick to some scriptures (which

will make all your arguments meaningless). That is what Gauranga and others are

doing. They are ignoring some scriptures and heavily quoting other scriptures

and yet seem to think that their arguments are conclusive (they aren't, for the

reasons I have outlined).> > Now, a few miscellaneous comments on a few points

made recently:> > (1) Lord Ganesha is the one who should be worshipped first.

Most Hindu priests (whether Vaishnava or Shaiva) start Vedic rituals with

Ganesha's worship with the following mantra:> > om ganaanaam tvaa ganapatim

havaamahe kavim kaveenaamupamasravastamam> jyeshtharaajam brahmanaam

brahmanaspata aa nah srinvannootibhisseedasaadanam> > (2) Shiva represents

tamas, as he is completely devoid of passion. But it does not mean worshipping

Shiva is tamasik.> > The 3 gunas (primordial natures) were never intended to

be classified as good and bad gunas. If rajas and tamas had been "bad" gunas,

they would not have found place in the creation of God. Tamas has been

interpreted by most scholars simply as dullness. But that is only one aspect of

it. On the positive side, it stands for a completely stable state where there is

no passion whatsoever. The three gunas and the trinity of gods represent three

eseential (and good) natures. Looking down upon tamas and hence upon Shiva is

not right. There are a lot of misconceptions.> > (3) If you are faced with

tamasic problems in life, there is no better way than worshipping Shiva.

Recital of Maha Mrityunjaya mantra, Rudra Namakam and Rudra Chamakam do have

the sanction of great sages. ALL people can read them when they have to

overcome tamaic problems in life.> > Often people talk about only moksha (BTW,

Shiva can grant moksha too. He grants moksha as Maheswara). But don't forget

that dharma, artha and kaama are as important. If unfinished karma remains,

moksha cannot come. As far as dharma (duty) is concerned, it comes in 4 forms -

duty towards self, duty towards family, duty towards society and duty towards

universe (Drigdasa allows us to measure how much of each duty is followed at a

given point of time). Protection of body is the most basic duty. If you have

tamasik problems impeding you in your duties, you better pray to Shiva to

remove them.> > (4) People often equate "worship of Shiva" to "worship with

desires". That's not right. Shiva can remove tamas and give desires, but he can

be worshipped without desires too. He too can grant moksha.> > (5) The

bottomline: Whether one is a Vaishnava or a Shiava does not really matter. If

one completely surrenders to the Supreme Divinity of the universe (whether one

calls it as Krishna or SadaShiva or AdiShakti or Parabrahman or by whatever

name) and overcomes the six enemies within, one will attain moksha. Whether one

is a devotee of Vishnu or Shiva, that is the final goal anyway.> > * *

*> > The only reason I spoke out is that some so-called-Vaishnavas who

to a fanatic school of thought that ignores the basic Vaishnava

traits of compassion and humility are unfairly creating a feeling of guilt

among sincere Shiva devotees on this list with their constant barrage of biased

scriptural quotes that belittle Shiva worship one way or the other.> > Let me

end this discussion with a nice quote from Vedas. One should note that Puranas

are meant for teaching advanced concepts in a simple and understandable way to

laymen, while Vedas put the ultimate truths in a crisp language without any

compromises or creative liberties.> > ekam sadvipraa bahudhaa vadanti

[RigVeda, 1.164.46]> > "The One Supreme Lord, who is infinitely beyond the

infinite scope of superlatives, is called by different names by the learned

men."> > May Jupiter's light shine on us,> Narasimha

 

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