Guest guest Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 Hello Deepak: Thank you for the comprehensive e-mail; however,it still doesn't change my sentiments about the Systems Approach. Furthermore, rather than saying SA is big heap of crap, I'll say it just doesn't work even after sincere attempts by me to apply it to my own life and my friends and family. I realize that calling something "a heap of crap" is not gentlemanly and therefore I withdraw just this statement. All my other statements regarding SA stand. Good luck Mukund vedic astrology, Deepak Singh <deepak_28_2> wrote: > > Hi Monmuk111, > > Systems Approach (SA) is far long away than Vedic Astrology. Though they call it to "be" Vedic Astrology. Their list "SATVA" is derived from "Systems Approach To Vedic Astrology". SA claims to make many successful predictions where I found it not working for me. I have heard people telling it did not work at all for them, even in the SATVA list there were case studies like this. > > Some of the rules of SA- > > 1) The planet who has a non-MT (Mool-trikona) sign will not be significating that house significations. Suppose, you are a Scorpio native. Then, though it is ruled by Mars, but Mars does not have it's MT (Mool-trikona) in Scorpio; it does in Aries. So, though as per Vedic Astrology Mars has to be seen for your Ascendant related matters, but as per SA, Mars has nothing to do with your Ascendant! (Because it's MT is not in Scorpio.) So, as per SA, even though Mars is heavily afflicted or exalted, it will have no impact on your ascendant! In these non-MT matters, the fixed significator has to be judged. So being a scorpio native, your healtgh related issues will not depend on Mars at all! It will depend on the Sun, the natural significator. > > Similarly, if you are a cancer native, then Saturn's position will not impact your marital life at all! Because though Saturn is your 7th lord, but it has no MT in Capricorn. So Saturn has no impact on your married life. Venus, the fixed significator will decide here!! > > 2) SA declares that only 6th, 8th, 12th houselords with MT are evils. Suppose you are Aries Native. Though Vedic Astrology tells that 3rd, 6th, 11th lords are malefic, but SA does not do so! For Aries native, we will have to see which of the 6th, 8th, 12th houses have MTs - which signs have MTs in them, their lords will be malefics. For Aries, 6th house Virgo has MT. But 8th and 12th houses (Scorpio and Pisces) have no MT so their lords will not be malefics. So, as per SA, for Aries natives, Only Mercury, Rahu and Ketu are malefics. > > Similarly, for Gemini natives, none of 6th, 8th, 12th houses have any MT so for them, only Rahu and Ketu will be malefic. Other seven planets are benefics!!! > > 3) SA recommends strengthening all the benefic planets. Like, for Gemini natives, it suggests wearing stones of all the seven planets from Sun to Saturn!! All stones will be good. > > 4) Debilitated and inimically placed are weak so they have to be given strength by stones if they are benefics as per SA. Like, for a Gemini native, all the seven planets from Sun to Saturn should be strengthened through stones, and if any of them are debilitated, then it's stone has to be worn first. > > 5) As per theory of SA, a person can have maximum 3 planets malefic from the main seven planets. So, a person can wear minimum 4 stones safely. Lucky natives like Gemini, can wear all seven stones for the seven main planets. > > 6) If a planet is exalted, it already has much strength so wearing it's stone will give only "some" good (or even not at all). Say for Scorpios, Moon is very benefic ruling the 9th house. Now, if moon is already exalted, then it's stone (Pearl) will give the native only some good, or may not give good at all since Moon is already got it's strength. > > 7) Even being in the same sign, if two planets are not within five degree close, they will not be treated as in conjunction! Say Moon in 3rd degree Aries, and Rahu in 9th degree Aries. Since their distance is more than five degrees, they will not be influencing each other at all! > > 8) Same rule applies to aspects. Though the planets are from different signs, in degree position they will have to be close within five degrees. Otherwise even being in Aries-Libra, they will not aspect, afflict, or benefic each other at all! > > 9) Retrogradation of any planet does not make any difference. Retrograde planets are just same to normal planets! (Quote - "the author is of the firm view that retrograde planets are to be treated in a normal way as per their longitudes.")!!!! > > 10) The five degrees of both sides of your ascendant-degree is the "MEP" (Most effective point) in any house. If you are born 10 degree Aries, then your MEP is 5 - 15 degree of any houses. So, if any malefic planet is not in 5-15 degree of a sign, that planet will not harm the house at all! To influence any house, the planet have to be within 5-15 degrees of that house! Otherwise, it will not effect the house at all!!! > > 11) If you visit the site of SA (http://www.yournetastrologer.com/) then you will see some "Rare Opportunity to ENERGISE your weak planets" (Quoted exactly) through some "kavach" they sell. The kavach costs US $ 300. But it is a rare chance, because, one single kavach can strengthen all the 4-7 benefic planets for you - if you bought all there stones, you would have to spend much more than $300. So this offer of buying a kavach with $300 is money saving and kavach works better than stones, too! > > *This kavach are designed and offered by Prof Choudhry. > > 12) Wearing the Kavach ensures all round happiness in life's every fields. > > *There were a lot of controversories recently that SAVTA list on the efficacy of kavach where an astrologer told that he took 14 kavachs for his clients as well as for himself and family and none of them worked so later he left them and was embarrassed before his clients. > > I am copying the difference between Vedic Astrology and SA found from SAVTA list - > > > (START) > > Traditional Approach versus System's Approach > > SA provides one consistent, non-confusing and non-contradictory principles as per the experience of those who have studies classical principles for decades. If somebody on the list does not want to make use of the experience of others and want to start afresh, he/she is welcome to do that. > There are many concepts in traditional astrology which are totally redundant. > There are many points of difference: > The first and foremost principle of SA is the functional nature of planets. > > The second is that we only see the chart from Asdt only both the natal and transit charts. > -The third is orb of conjunction and aspect. > -All houses except 6th, 8th and 12th houses are good. > > - SA does not believe in: > (i) Chalit (ii) Jamini karakas (iii) jamini dasas (iv) important yogas aslaid down in the fixed mode without identifying the functional nature of theplanets (v) maraka planets (vi) that the benefics owning good houses become malefic planets (vii) Badhaka principlesn, (vii) calculation of strengthas per traditional graha and bhava balas (viii) traditional manglik (ix)traditional sade-sati, (x) conditional dasas, etc. etc. > The advocates of the traditional astrology principles can never match (i) the shortest time required for learning predictive techniques,(ii)confidence, (iii) competence and (iv) speed of an SA astrologer. > > However, choice is with the person his/her ownself. > > (END) > > Be well, > Deepak > > vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111> wrote: > > Dear friends: > > > > Are you guys talking about the KP/Systems approach. I've sincerely > > with an open mind tried to study the Systems approach and I geniunely > > feels that Systems approach is a big heap of crap. To give you an > > example--it says that for a Scorpio ascendant, Saturn in the most > > benefic planet. Now, per the PURE vedic astrology, Saturn is a > > functional malefic for Scorpio ascendant and this principle applies > > in my personal life, every time I go throug the antardasha of Saturn, > > my life turns upside down. > > > > Now, when Systems approach says that Saturn is the MBPF for Scorpio > > ascendant, it is just a joke or a lie or just a heap of crap. > > > > I tried to apply the Sytems approach principles to the charts of my > > family and friends and NOTHING applies. Not one prediction made per > > Systems Approach coinsides with the lives and events in the life of > > my friends and family; whereas, all the PURE vedic principlea and > > predictions apply. > > > > This is just my experience of the KP/Systems approach. I'm not sure > > if KP and Systems are one and the same thing, I'm only commenting on > > the Systems Approach developed by somebody named Chowdry. > > > > M.Desai > > > > > > vedic astrology, Punit Pandey > > <punitastrologer> wrote: > > > Dear Mr. Visti, > > > Thanks for your comments. > > > > > > I have my difference of opinion regarding KP (Even for lal kitab, > > but that I don't want to discuss here). It seems that KP has taken > > some other path than vedic astrology but if you go through this > > system, you will find parahsari jyotish in the heart. I see four > > major differences from parashari astrology - > > > > > > 1. Use of Placidus system of house division (western one) > > > > > > 2. User of SUB theory > > > > > > 3. Giving more importance to Naksharta. Saying that planet gives > > the result of nakshatra in which it is situated. > > > > > > 4. Differenct ayanamsa (but no one know which ayanamsa was used by > > Parashara himself) > > > > > > From above you can see the 2,3 and 4 and based more or less on > > vedic astrology. SUB theory is devised from Vimshottari Dasha system > > as it is. The same division has been used. The same is for Nakshatra, > > some nadi author also give importance to nakshatra this way. And as > > you said that there is lack of concensus even among vedic astrologers > > for ayanamsas. Only the point 1 (i.e. the house division system) does > > not match with vedic astrology. > > > > > > Although I don't say that I have sufficient knowledge for > > discussing this topic but in my opinion even KP should be part of > > vedic astrology. Even I have no intention to hurt anyone. We must > > keep inventing and improving astrology, if it is possible. If we will > > oppose KP, It will be just like scientists opposing astrology without > > trying to understand it. Even some vedic astrologers are using > > principles similar to KP in some way or other to improve predicitons. > > In my opinion KP with divisional charts and some more dasas might > > become next step in astrology. And it is only possible if we will > > first open ourselves for discussion on non-vedic sounding systems of > > astrology. > > > > > > It will be good for discussion if we will get opinion of all Gurus. > > I also want to know whether anything build/developed/invented on the > > foundation of vedic astrology can be called vedic astrology or not? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > Visti Larsen <vishnu@l...> wrote:Hare Rama Krishna-------------- ---- > > -----Dear Punit,It is all vedic astrology, however even within vedic > > astrology, the Jyotishis have a mind of their own. Those who follow > > Parasari strictly understand that the nodes must always be mean, and > > not true, to fulfill the duty assigned to them, hence by implication > > of this, one uses mean nodes. But yet some people do not follow this. > > As for ayanamsa, the reason for lack of consensus is lack of valid > > research. Some oppine an ayanamsa that is more than 10 degrees from > > lahiri, but i can assure you that their basis for their readings is > > much different from that taught by parasara.. mainly because those > > natives don't read scriptures to begin with, and make up their own > > rules along the way! This is not Jyotish the way Parasara wanted it > > to be. Krishnamurty created the KP system on a similar basis.. namely > > that noone would teach him Jyotish! Tajik is incorperated into the > > systems we know today and is no doubt an interesting system of > > astrology, but i won't comment. Bhrigu-Jyotish is Nadi-Jyotish and > > Nadi-Jyotish is the same Jyotish that Parasara taught.. have no doubt > > about that. Now to adress your question on acuracy.Once an > > astrologer gets a birth chart, his/her prime objective is to confirm > > its acuracy. So the question of birthtime acuracy is simply not > > relevant, as usually the Astrologer is out to prove its acuracy to > > begin with. When the astrologer has done so, the readings may flow > > like nectar, so the question is Birth-time rectification. Hope this > > helps.Best wishes > > > Visti > > > --- > > > Sri Jagannath Center: http://.org > > > Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org > > > iTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org----- Original > > Message ----- Punit Pandey vedic- astrology > > Friday, April 18, 2003 1:16 PMRe: [vedic- astrology] > > Re: accuracy in time of birth > > > Dear Mr. Partha, Sorry for mistake. I used to think that Jaimini, > > Tajik, Hora, Nadi, Bhrigu, KP, Lal Kitab etc. all belong to vedic > > astrology. Probably some are not as vedic. Seeking experts' comments. > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > "V.partha sarathy" <partvinu5> wrote:hare rama krishna > > > dear punit > > > > > > the group discusses vedic astrology. the name of the group is > > written > > > in bold letters. i hope you understand > > > regards > > > partha > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, Punit Pandey > > > <punitastrologer> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello All KP Experts, > > > > > > > > I have a question to ask to all experts of this group. Today we > > > utilize sub and sub-sub lords of cusps in nearly all predictions > > > based on KP System. > > > > > > > > We all know that there is no consensus on ayanamsa, no consensus > > on > > > true rahu and mean rahu, known variations of computer programs, > > > unsteady motion of planets, unavailability of atomic clocks at > > > hospitals/homes etc., is it OK to use sub-sub (cuspal sub-sub lords > > > change in average of 25 seconds) lord or even sub lord (cuspal sub > > > lords changes in average of 4 minuts)??? > > > > > > > > I think it is a basic question and good subject to debate. At > > least > > > lots of people in India don't have accurate timing with them > > > (accuracy less than 4 minutes). > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111> wrote:> Hello Deepak:> > Thank you for the comprehensive e-mail; however,it still doesn't > change my sentiments about the Systems Approach. Furthermore, rather > than saying SA is big heap of crap, I'll say it just doesn't work > even after sincere attempts by me to apply it to my own life and my > friends and family.> > I realize that calling something "a heap of crap" is not gentlemanly > and therefore I withdraw just this statement. All my other statements > regarding SA stand. Good luck> > Mukund> > --- In vedic astrology, Deepak Singh > <deepak_28_2> wrote:> > > > Hi Monmuk111,> > > > Systems Approach (SA) is far long away than Vedic Astrology. Though > they call it to "be" Vedic Astrology. Their list "SATVA" is derived > from "Systems Approach To Vedic Astrology". SA claims to make many > successful predictions where I found it not working for me. I have > heard people telling it did not work at all for them, even in the > SATVA list there were case studies like this.> > > > Some of the rules of SA-> > > > 1) The planet who has a non-MT (Mool-trikona) sign will not be > significating that house significations. Suppose, you are a Scorpio > native. Then, though it is ruled by Mars, but Mars does not have it's > MT (Mool-trikona) in Scorpio; it does in Aries. So, though as per > Vedic Astrology Mars has to be seen for your Ascendant related > matters, but as per SA, Mars has nothing to do with your Ascendant! > (Because it's MT is not in Scorpio.) So, as per SA, even though Mars > is heavily afflicted or exalted, it will have no impact on your > ascendant! In these non-MT matters, the fixed significator has to be > judged. So being a scorpio native, your healtgh related issues will > not depend on Mars at all! It will depend on the Sun, the natural > significator.> > > > Similarly, if you are a cancer native, then Saturn's position will > not impact your marital life at all! Because though Saturn is your > 7th lord, but it has no MT in Capricorn. So Saturn has no impact on > your married life. Venus, the fixed significator will decide here!!> > > > 2) SA declares that only 6th, 8th, 12th houselords with MT are > evils. Suppose you are Aries Native. Though Vedic Astrology tells > that 3rd, 6th, 11th lords are malefic, but SA does not do so! For > Aries native, we will have to see which of the 6th, 8th, 12th houses > have MTs - which signs have MTs in them, their lords will be > malefics. For Aries, 6th house Virgo has MT. But 8th and 12th houses > (Scorpio and Pisces) have no MT so their lords will not be malefics. > So, as per SA, for Aries natives, Only Mercury, Rahu and Ketu are > malefics.> > > > Similarly, for Gemini natives, none of 6th, 8th, 12th houses have > any MT so for them, only Rahu and Ketu will be malefic. Other seven > planets are benefics!!!> > > > 3) SA recommends strengthening all the benefic planets. Like, for > Gemini natives, it suggests wearing stones of all the seven planets > from Sun to Saturn!! All stones will be good.> > > > 4) Debilitated and inimically placed are weak so they have to be > given strength by stones if they are benefics as per SA. Like, for a > Gemini native, all the seven planets from Sun to Saturn should be > strengthened through stones, and if any of them are debilitated, then > it's stone has to be worn first.> > > > 5) As per theory of SA, a person can have maximum 3 planets malefic > from the main seven planets. So, a person can wear minimum 4 stones > safely. Lucky natives like Gemini, can wear all seven stones for the > seven main planets.> > > > 6) If a planet is exalted, it already has much strength so wearing > it's stone will give only "some" good (or even not at all). Say for > Scorpios, Moon is very benefic ruling the 9th house. Now, if moon is > already exalted, then it's stone (Pearl) will give the native only > some good, or may not give good at all since Moon is already got it's > strength.> > > > 7) Even being in the same sign, if two planets are not within five > degree close, they will not be treated as in conjunction! Say Moon in > 3rd degree Aries, and Rahu in 9th degree Aries. Since their distance > is more than five degrees, they will not be influencing each other at > all!> > > > 8) Same rule applies to aspects. Though the planets are from > different signs, in degree position they will have to be close within > five degrees. Otherwise even being in Aries-Libra, they will not > aspect, afflict, or benefic each other at all!> > > > 9) Retrogradation of any planet does not make any difference. > Retrograde planets are just same to normal planets! (Quote - "the > author is of the firm view that retrograde planets are to be treated > in a normal way as per their longitudes.")!!!!> > > > 10) The five degrees of both sides of your ascendant-degree is > the "MEP" (Most effective point) in any house. If you are born 10 > degree Aries, then your MEP is 5 - 15 degree of any houses. So, if > any malefic planet is not in 5-15 degree of a sign, that planet will > not harm the house at all! To influence any house, the planet have to > be within 5-15 degrees of that house! Otherwise, it will not effect > the house at all!!!> > > > 11) If you visit the site of SA (http://www.yournetastrologer.com/) > then you will see some "Rare Opportunity to ENERGISE your weak > planets" (Quoted exactly) through some "kavach" they sell. The kavach > costs US $ 300. But it is a rare chance, because, one single kavach > can strengthen all the 4-7 benefic planets for you - if you bought > all there stones, you would have to spend much more than $300. So > this offer of buying a kavach with $300 is money saving and kavach > works better than stones, too!> > > > *This kavach are designed and offered by Prof Choudhry.> > > > 12) Wearing the Kavach ensures all round happiness in life's every > fields.> > > > *There were a lot of controversories recently that SAVTA list on > the efficacy of kavach where an astrologer told that he took 14 > kavachs for his clients as well as for himself and family and none of > them worked so later he left them and was embarrassed before his > clients.> > > > I am copying the difference between Vedic Astrology and SA found > from SAVTA list -> > > > > > (START)> > > > Traditional Approach versus System's Approach > > > > SA provides one consistent, non-confusing and non-contradictory > principles as per the experience of those who have studies classical > principles for decades. If somebody on the list does not want to make > use of the experience of others and want to start afresh, he/she is > welcome to do that.> > There are many concepts in traditional astrology which are totally > redundant.> > There are many points of difference:> > The first and foremost principle of SA is the functional nature of > planets. > > > > The second is that we only see the chart from Asdt only both the > natal and transit charts.> > -The third is orb of conjunction and aspect.> > -All houses except 6th, 8th and 12th houses are good.> > > > - SA does not believe in:> > (i) Chalit (ii) Jamini karakas (iii) jamini dasas (iv) important > yogas aslaid down in the fixed mode without identifying the > functional nature of theplanets (v) maraka planets (vi) that the > benefics owning good houses become malefic planets (vii) Badhaka > principlesn, (vii) calculation of strengthas per traditional graha > and bhava balas (viii) traditional manglik (ix)traditional sade-sati, > (x) conditional dasas, etc. etc.> > The advocates of the traditional astrology principles can never > match (i) the shortest time required for learning predictive > techniques,(ii)confidence, (iii) competence and (iv) speed of an SA > astrologer.> > > > However, choice is with the person his/her ownself.> > > > (END)> > > > Be well,> > Deepak> > > > vedic astrology, "monmuk111" > <monmuk111> wrote:> > > Dear friends:> > > > > > Are you guys talking about the KP/Systems approach. I've > sincerely > > > with an open mind tried to study the Systems approach and I > geniunely > > > feels that Systems approach is a big heap of crap. To give you an > > > example--it says that for a Scorpio ascendant, Saturn in the most > > > benefic planet. Now, per the PURE vedic astrology, Saturn is a > > > functional malefic for Scorpio ascendant and this principle > applies > > > in my personal life, every time I go throug the antardasha of > Saturn, > > > my life turns upside down. > > > > > > Now, when Systems approach says that Saturn is the MBPF for > Scorpio > > > ascendant, it is just a joke or a lie or just a heap of crap.> > > > > > I tried to apply the Sytems approach principles to the charts of > my > > > family and friends and NOTHING applies. Not one prediction made > per > > > Systems Approach coinsides with the lives and events in the life > of > > > my friends and family; whereas, all the PURE vedic principlea and > > > predictions apply.> > > > > > This is just my experience of the KP/Systems approach. I'm not > sure > > > if KP and Systems are one and the same thing, I'm only commenting > on > > > the Systems Approach developed by somebody named Chowdry.> > > > > > M.Desai> > > > > > > > > --- In vedic astrology, Punit Pandey > > > <punitastrologer> wrote:> > > > Dear Mr. Visti,> > > > Thanks for your comments. > > > > > > > > I have my difference of opinion regarding KP (Even for lal > kitab, > > > but that I don't want to discuss here). It seems that KP has > taken > > > some other path than vedic astrology but if you go through this > > > system, you will find parahsari jyotish in the heart. I see four > > > major differences from parashari astrology -> > > > > > > > 1. Use of Placidus system of house division (western one)> > > > > > > > 2. User of SUB theory> > > > > > > > 3. Giving more importance to Naksharta. Saying that planet > gives > > > the result of nakshatra in which it is situated.> > > > > > > > 4. Differenct ayanamsa (but no one know which ayanamsa was used > by > > > Parashara himself)> > > > > > > > From above you can see the 2,3 and 4 and based more or less on > > > vedic astrology. SUB theory is devised from Vimshottari Dasha > system > > > as it is. The same division has been used. The same is for > Nakshatra, > > > some nadi author also give importance to nakshatra this way. And > as > > > you said that there is lack of concensus even among vedic > astrologers > > > for ayanamsas. Only the point 1 (i.e. the house division system) > does > > > not match with vedic astrology. > > > > > > > > Although I don't say that I have sufficient knowledge for > > > discussing this topic but in my opinion even KP should be part of > > > vedic astrology. Even I have no intention to hurt anyone. We must > > > keep inventing and improving astrology, if it is possible. If we > will > > > oppose KP, It will be just like scientists opposing astrology > without > > > trying to understand it. Even some vedic astrologers are using > > > principles similar to KP in some way or other to improve > predicitons. > > > In my opinion KP with divisional charts and some more dasas might > > > become next step in astrology. And it is only possible if we will > > > first open ourselves for discussion on non-vedic sounding systems > of > > > astrology.> > > > > > > > It will be good for discussion if we will get opinion of all > Gurus. > > > I also want to know whether anything build/developed/invented on > the > > > foundation of vedic astrology can be called vedic astrology or > not? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > Visti Larsen <vishnu@l...> wrote:Hare Rama Krishna--------------> ----> > > -----Dear Punit,It is all vedic astrology, however even within > vedic > > > astrology, the Jyotishis have a mind of their own. Those who > follow > > > Parasari strictly understand that the nodes must always be mean, > and > > > not true, to fulfill the duty assigned to them, hence by > implication > > > of this, one uses mean nodes. But yet some people do not follow > this. > > > As for ayanamsa, the reason for lack of consensus is lack of > valid > > > research. Some oppine an ayanamsa that is more than 10 degrees > from > > > lahiri, but i can assure you that their basis for their readings > is > > > much different from that taught by parasara.. mainly because > those > > > natives don't read scriptures to begin with, and make up their > own > > > rules along the way! This is not Jyotish the way Parasara wanted > it > > > to be. Krishnamurty created the KP system on a similar basis.. > namely > > > that noone would teach him Jyotish! Tajik is incorperated into > the > > > systems we know today and is no doubt an interesting system of > > > astrology, but i won't comment. Bhrigu-Jyotish is Nadi-Jyotish > and > > > Nadi-Jyotish is the same Jyotish that Parasara taught.. have no > doubt > > > about that. Now to adress your question on acuracy.Once an > > > astrologer gets a birth chart, his/her prime objective is to > confirm > > > its acuracy. So the question of birthtime acuracy is simply not > > > relevant, as usually the Astrologer is out to prove its acuracy > to > > > begin with. When the astrologer has done so, the readings may > flow > > > like nectar, so the question is Birth-time rectification. Hope > this > > > helps.Best wishes> > > > Visti> > > > ---> > > > Sri Jagannath Center: http://.org> > > > Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org> > > > iTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org----- Original > > > Message ----- Punit Pandey vedic-> astrology > > > Friday, April 18, 2003 1:16 PMRe: [vedic-> astrology] > > > Re: accuracy in time of birth> > > > Dear Mr. Partha, Sorry for mistake. I used to think that > Jaimini, > > > Tajik, Hora, Nadi, Bhrigu, KP, Lal Kitab etc. all belong to vedic > > > astrology. Probably some are not as vedic. Seeking experts' > comments. > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > "V.partha sarathy" <partvinu5> wrote:hare rama krishna> > > > dear punit> > > > > > > > the group discusses vedic astrology. the name of the group is > > > written > > > > in bold letters. i hope you understand> > > > regards> > > > partha> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vedic astrology, Punit Pandey > > > > <punitastrologer> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > Hello All KP Experts,> > > > > > > > > > I have a question to ask to all experts of this group. Today > we > > > > utilize sub and sub-sub lords of cusps in nearly all > predictions > > > > based on KP System. > > > > > > > > > > We all know that there is no consensus on ayanamsa, no > consensus > > > on > > > > true rahu and mean rahu, known variations of computer programs, > > > > unsteady motion of planets, unavailability of atomic clocks at > > > > hospitals/homes etc., is it OK to use sub-sub (cuspal sub-sub > lords > > > > change in average of 25 seconds) lord or even sub lord (cuspal > sub > > > > lords changes in average of 4 minuts)???> > > > > > > > > > I think it is a basic question and good subject to debate. At > > > least > > > > lots of people in India don't have accurate timing with them > > > > (accuracy less than 4 minutes).> > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance.> > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology> > > > > > > > Group info: vedic-> astrology/info.html> > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology> > > > > > > > Group info: vedic-> astrology/info.html> > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > Sponsor> > > > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology> > > > > > > > Group info: vedic-> astrology/info.html> > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 Maybe in Kali-Yuga system needs to be changed, but your Systems Approach is a nonsense system.--It doesn't work for me, that's all I'm saying. and,NO, you didn't change my mind, I just realized that "heap of crap" wasn't a proper adjective to be used to address anything--not just the SA. Mukund vedic astrology, Deepak Singh <deepak_28_2> wrote: > Hi Monmuk111, > How could you think that I wrote that change your mind? :-))))) I just wanted to point out all the strange, never-heard-before principles SA has! And why should I want to change your view in favour of SA where I myself do not trust it? :-)))) > > For the very basic principles, SA can not call itself "Vedic Astrology" when it says conjunction or aspest is for 5 degrees, non MT houses have no influence from their lords, retrograded planets are just normal and all strange rules. > > Considering degrees for conjunction is a matter of westerns. SA, in NO WAY can be called 'Vedic Astrology'. Do you (And others) see that? > > SA calls Authentic Vedic Astrology to be 'Traditional Astrology' to tease it indirectly and to mean indirectly that is 'traditional' theories are all wrong and stupid where SA is the only valid astrology method. By saying that Vedic Astrology is confusing, unnecessarily complexed - they insult the eye of Vedas. > > Choudhry says that he has read in Sastras that for Kali Yoga the system needs change and he invented (?) the changes needed for this era. > > I am happy to see many other people can see the hidden facts in this. I previously thought what was wrong with all the people. But now I see there is nothing wrong since many understand and know that very well. > > Take care, - > Deepak. > vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111> wrote: > > Hello Deepak: > > > > Thank you for the comprehensive e-mail; however,it still doesn't > > change my sentiments about the Systems Approach. Furthermore, rather > > than saying SA is big heap of crap, I'll say it just doesn't work > > even after sincere attempts by me to apply it to my own life and my > > friends and family. > > > > I realize that calling something "a heap of crap" is not gentlemanly > > and therefore I withdraw just this statement. All my other statements > > regarding SA stand. Good luck > > > > Mukund > > > > vedic astrology, Deepak Singh > > <deepak_28_2> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Monmuk111, > > > > > > Systems Approach (SA) is far long away than Vedic Astrology. Though > > they call it to "be" Vedic Astrology. Their list "SATVA" is derived > > from "Systems Approach To Vedic Astrology". SA claims to make many > > successful predictions where I found it not working for me. I have > > heard people telling it did not work at all for them, even in the > > SATVA list there were case studies like this. > > > > > > Some of the rules of SA- > > > > > > 1) The planet who has a non-MT (Mool-trikona) sign will not be > > significating that house significations. Suppose, you are a Scorpio > > native. Then, though it is ruled by Mars, but Mars does not have it's > > MT (Mool-trikona) in Scorpio; it does in Aries. So, though as per > > Vedic Astrology Mars has to be seen for your Ascendant related > > matters, but as per SA, Mars has nothing to do with your Ascendant! > > (Because it's MT is not in Scorpio.) So, as per SA, even though Mars > > is heavily afflicted or exalted, it will have no impact on your > > ascendant! In these non-MT matters, the fixed significator has to be > > judged. So being a scorpio native, your healtgh related issues will > > not depend on Mars at all! It will depend on the Sun, the natural > > significator. > > > > > > Similarly, if you are a cancer native, then Saturn's position will > > not impact your marital life at all! Because though Saturn is your > > 7th lord, but it has no MT in Capricorn. So Saturn has no impact on > > your married life. Venus, the fixed significator will decide here!! > > > > > > 2) SA declares that only 6th, 8th, 12th houselords with MT are > > evils. Suppose you are Aries Native. Though Vedic Astrology tells > > that 3rd, 6th, 11th lords are malefic, but SA does not do so! For > > Aries native, we will have to see which of the 6th, 8th, 12th houses > > have MTs - which signs have MTs in them, their lords will be > > malefics. For Aries, 6th house Virgo has MT. But 8th and 12th houses > > (Scorpio and Pisces) have no MT so their lords will not be malefics. > > So, as per SA, for Aries natives, Only Mercury, Rahu and Ketu are > > malefics. > > > > > > Similarly, for Gemini natives, none of 6th, 8th, 12th houses have > > any MT so for them, only Rahu and Ketu will be malefic. Other seven > > planets are benefics!!! > > > > > > 3) SA recommends strengthening all the benefic planets. Like, for > > Gemini natives, it suggests wearing stones of all the seven planets > > from Sun to Saturn!! All stones will be good. > > > > > > 4) Debilitated and inimically placed are weak so they have to be > > given strength by stones if they are benefics as per SA. Like, for a > > Gemini native, all the seven planets from Sun to Saturn should be > > strengthened through stones, and if any of them are debilitated, then > > it's stone has to be worn first. > > > > > > 5) As per theory of SA, a person can have maximum 3 planets malefic > > from the main seven planets. So, a person can wear minimum 4 stones > > safely. Lucky natives like Gemini, can wear all seven stones for the > > seven main planets. > > > > > > 6) If a planet is exalted, it already has much strength so wearing > > it's stone will give only "some" good (or even not at all). Say for > > Scorpios, Moon is very benefic ruling the 9th house. Now, if moon is > > already exalted, then it's stone (Pearl) will give the native only > > some good, or may not give good at all since Moon is already got it's > > strength. > > > > > > 7) Even being in the same sign, if two planets are not within five > > degree close, they will not be treated as in conjunction! Say Moon in > > 3rd degree Aries, and Rahu in 9th degree Aries. Since their distance > > is more than five degrees, they will not be influencing each other at > > all! > > > > > > 8) Same rule applies to aspects. Though the planets are from > > different signs, in degree position they will have to be close within > > five degrees. Otherwise even being in Aries-Libra, they will not > > aspect, afflict, or benefic each other at all! > > > > > > 9) Retrogradation of any planet does not make any difference. > > Retrograde planets are just same to normal planets! (Quote - "the > > author is of the firm view that retrograde planets are to be treated > > in a normal way as per their longitudes.")!!!! > > > > > > 10) The five degrees of both sides of your ascendant-degree is > > the "MEP" (Most effective point) in any house. If you are born 10 > > degree Aries, then your MEP is 5 - 15 degree of any houses. So, if > > any malefic planet is not in 5-15 degree of a sign, that planet will > > not harm the house at all! To influence any house, the planet have to > > be within 5-15 degrees of that house! Otherwise, it will not effect > > the house at all!!! > > > > > > 11) If you visit the site of SA (http://www.yournetastrologer.com/) > > then you will see some "Rare Opportunity to ENERGISE your weak > > planets" (Quoted exactly) through some "kavach" they sell. The kavach > > costs US $ 300. But it is a rare chance, because, one single kavach > > can strengthen all the 4-7 benefic planets for you - if you bought > > all there stones, you would have to spend much more than $300. So > > this offer of buying a kavach with $300 is money saving and kavach > > works better than stones, too! > > > > > > *This kavach are designed and offered by Prof Choudhry. > > > > > > 12) Wearing the Kavach ensures all round happiness in life's every > > fields. > > > > > > *There were a lot of controversories recently that SAVTA list on > > the efficacy of kavach where an astrologer told that he took 14 > > kavachs for his clients as well as for himself and family and none of > > them worked so later he left them and was embarrassed before his > > clients. > > > > > > I am copying the difference between Vedic Astrology and SA found > > from SAVTA list - > > > > > > > > > (START) > > > > > > Traditional Approach versus System's Approach > > > > > > SA provides one consistent, non-confusing and non-contradictory > > principles as per the experience of those who have studies classical > > principles for decades. If somebody on the list does not want to make > > use of the experience of others and want to start afresh, he/she is > > welcome to do that. > > > There are many concepts in traditional astrology which are totally > > redundant. > > > There are many points of difference: > > > The first and foremost principle of SA is the functional nature of > > planets. > > > > > > The second is that we only see the chart from Asdt only both the > > natal and transit charts. > > > -The third is orb of conjunction and aspect. > > > -All houses except 6th, 8th and 12th houses are good. > > > > > > - SA does not believe in: > > > (i) Chalit (ii) Jamini karakas (iii) jamini dasas (iv) important > > yogas aslaid down in the fixed mode without identifying the > > functional nature of theplanets (v) maraka planets (vi) that the > > benefics owning good houses become malefic planets (vii) Badhaka > > principlesn, (vii) calculation of strengthas per traditional graha > > and bhava balas (viii) traditional manglik (ix)traditional sade- sati, > > (x) conditional dasas, etc. etc. > > > The advocates of the traditional astrology principles can never > > match (i) the shortest time required for learning predictive > > techniques,(ii)confidence, (iii) competence and (iv) speed of an SA > > astrologer. > > > > > > However, choice is with the person his/her ownself. > > > > > > (END) > > > > > > Be well, > > > Deepak > > > > > > vedic astrology, "monmuk111" > > <monmuk111> wrote: > > > > Dear friends: > > > > > > > > Are you guys talking about the KP/Systems approach. I've > > sincerely > > > > with an open mind tried to study the Systems approach and I > > geniunely > > > > feels that Systems approach is a big heap of crap. To give you an > > > > example--it says that for a Scorpio ascendant, Saturn in the most > > > > benefic planet. Now, per the PURE vedic astrology, Saturn is a > > > > functional malefic for Scorpio ascendant and this principle > > applies > > > > in my personal life, every time I go throug the antardasha of > > Saturn, > > > > my life turns upside down. > > > > > > > > Now, when Systems approach says that Saturn is the MBPF for > > Scorpio > > > > ascendant, it is just a joke or a lie or just a heap of crap. > > > > > > > > I tried to apply the Sytems approach principles to the charts of > > my > > > > family and friends and NOTHING applies. Not one prediction made > > per > > > > Systems Approach coinsides with the lives and events in the life > > of > > > > my friends and family; whereas, all the PURE vedic principlea and > > > > predictions apply. > > > > > > > > This is just my experience of the KP/Systems approach. I'm not > > sure > > > > if KP and Systems are one and the same thing, I'm only commenting > > on > > > > the Systems Approach developed by somebody named Chowdry. > > > > > > > > M.Desai > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, Punit Pandey > > > > <punitastrologer> wrote: > > > > > Dear Mr. Visti, > > > > > Thanks for your comments. > > > > > > > > > > I have my difference of opinion regarding KP (Even for lal > > kitab, > > > > but that I don't want to discuss here). It seems that KP has > > taken > > > > some other path than vedic astrology but if you go through this > > > > system, you will find parahsari jyotish in the heart. I see four > > > > major differences from parashari astrology - > > > > > > > > > > 1. Use of Placidus system of house division (western one) > > > > > > > > > > 2. User of SUB theory > > > > > > > > > > 3. Giving more importance to Naksharta. Saying that planet > > gives > > > > the result of nakshatra in which it is situated. > > > > > > > > > > 4. Differenct ayanamsa (but no one know which ayanamsa was used > > by > > > > Parashara himself) > > > > > > > > > > From above you can see the 2,3 and 4 and based more or less on > > > > vedic astrology. SUB theory is devised from Vimshottari Dasha > > system > > > > as it is. The same division has been used. The same is for > > Nakshatra, > > > > some nadi author also give importance to nakshatra this way. And > > as > > > > you said that there is lack of concensus even among vedic > > astrologers > > > > for ayanamsas. Only the point 1 (i.e. the house division system) > > does > > > > not match with vedic astrology. > > > > > > > > > > Although I don't say that I have sufficient knowledge for > > > > discussing this topic but in my opinion even KP should be part of > > > > vedic astrology. Even I have no intention to hurt anyone. We must > > > > keep inventing and improving astrology, if it is possible. If we > > will > > > > oppose KP, It will be just like scientists opposing astrology > > without > > > > trying to understand it. Even some vedic astrologers are using > > > > principles similar to KP in some way or other to improve > > predicitons. > > > > In my opinion KP with divisional charts and some more dasas might > > > > become next step in astrology. And it is only possible if we will > > > > first open ourselves for discussion on non-vedic sounding systems > > of > > > > astrology. > > > > > > > > > > It will be good for discussion if we will get opinion of all > > Gurus. > > > > I also want to know whether anything build/developed/invented on > > the > > > > foundation of vedic astrology can be called vedic astrology or > > not? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen <vishnu@l...> wrote:Hare Rama Krishna---------- ---- > > ---- > > > > -----Dear Punit,It is all vedic astrology, however even within > > vedic > > > > astrology, the Jyotishis have a mind of their own. Those who > > follow > > > > Parasari strictly understand that the nodes must always be mean, > > and > > > > not true, to fulfill the duty assigned to them, hence by > > implication > > > > of this, one uses mean nodes. But yet some people do not follow > > this. > > > > As for ayanamsa, the reason for lack of consensus is lack of > > valid > > > > research. Some oppine an ayanamsa that is more than 10 degrees > > from > > > > lahiri, but i can assure you that their basis for their readings > > is > > > > much different from that taught by parasara.. mainly because > > those > > > > natives don't read scriptures to begin with, and make up their > > own > > > > rules along the way! This is not Jyotish the way Parasara wanted > > it > > > > to be. Krishnamurty created the KP system on a similar basis.. > > namely > > > > that noone would teach him Jyotish! Tajik is incorperated into > > the > > > > systems we know today and is no doubt an interesting system of > > > > astrology, but i won't comment. Bhrigu-Jyotish is Nadi- Jyotish > > and > > > > Nadi-Jyotish is the same Jyotish that Parasara taught.. have no > > doubt > > > > about that. Now to adress your question on acuracy.Once an > > > > astrologer gets a birth chart, his/her prime objective is to > > confirm > > > > its acuracy. So the question of birthtime acuracy is simply not > > > > relevant, as usually the Astrologer is out to prove its acuracy > > to > > > > begin with. When the astrologer has done so, the readings may > > flow > > > > like nectar, so the question is Birth-time rectification. Hope > > this > > > > helps.Best wishes > > > > > Visti > > > > > --- > > > > > Sri Jagannath Center: http://.org > > > > > Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org > > > > > iTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org----- Original > > > > Message ----- Punit Pandey vedic- > > astrology > > > > Friday, April 18, 2003 1:16 PMRe: [vedic- > > astrology] > > > > Re: accuracy in time of birth > > > > > Dear Mr. Partha, Sorry for mistake. I used to think that > > Jaimini, > > > > Tajik, Hora, Nadi, Bhrigu, KP, Lal Kitab etc. all belong to vedic > > > > astrology. Probably some are not as vedic. Seeking experts' > > comments. > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > > > > > "V.partha sarathy" <partvinu5> wrote:hare rama krishna > > > > > dear punit > > > > > > > > > > the group discusses vedic astrology. the name of the group is > > > > written > > > > > in bold letters. i hope you understand > > > > > regards > > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, Punit Pandey > > > > > <punitastrologer> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello All KP Experts, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a question to ask to all experts of this group. Today > > we > > > > > utilize sub and sub-sub lords of cusps in nearly all > > predictions > > > > > based on KP System. > > > > > > > > > > > > We all know that there is no consensus on ayanamsa, no > > consensus > > > > on > > > > > true rahu and mean rahu, known variations of computer programs, > > > > > unsteady motion of planets, unavailability of atomic clocks at > > > > > hospitals/homes etc., is it OK to use sub-sub (cuspal sub- sub > > lords > > > > > change in average of 25 seconds) lord or even sub lord (cuspal > > sub > > > > > lords changes in average of 4 minuts)??? > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it is a basic question and good subject to debate. At > > > > least > > > > > lots of people in India don't have accurate timing with them > > > > > (accuracy less than 4 minutes). > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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