Is KP sufficiently vedic?

April 25, 2003

Dear Punit Pandeyji,

I think, where we differ is merely whether a bit of intution is required for

correct prediction or not. I have never said that intution is required to

predict. What I said, if you remember my original post is that We act as a

vehicle for the Jataka to hear his correct prediction as his time has arrived.

I do not dispute that Jyotish is a science, as you will find me reffering to

Jyotish as the Divine Science. However if you calculate the variables they

would exceed ,may be, a trillion when we take all that are applicable to arrive

at a prediction. So what is needed is the analytical ability to separate the

grain from the chaff to arrive at what is likely to happen. Had Jyotish been a

science in the manner you are trying to suggest, or as I think you are trying

to suggest, it would have been possible to feed the Formulae or tests for a

computer programme and get the right answers. Mnay Jyotish programme have

atempted to do this but you will find them failing most of the time.

Again the astrologer's own planets are also operating and they also make an

impression on the correctness of his predictions. Gaurangaji called as intution

and I have called it as the Jataka's bhagya, impelling one to make the right

prediction on a given chart.

I hope you have not misunderstood my intentions.

Chandrashekhar.

-

Punit Pandey

vedic astrology

Friday, April 25, 2003 11:33 AM

Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Is KP sufficiently vedic?

Chandrashekhar Ji,

If you go through the test, you will find that it is not for predicting

everything but only knowing what sort of event might happen. For example in the

star of Venus, I used to receive money. I am checking it for the last few years

and it proved correct for me. Whenever sun transit from the star of Venus, it

is financially best time in four months for me. Here intuition doesn't play

much of the role. Anyone having a little knowledge of astrology can go through

this test and check the validity. Again I want to clarify that I have not said

anywhere that I can predict everything through application of the science. I

was just telling something can be known unfailingly by the application of that

test and there are few other tests too.

I don't know whether it is written anywhere in vedic astrological books that you

need to have intuition to predict anything. But there are few fourmulae / yogas

that gives at least 80-90% results. So for those yogas we need not to have any

intuition.

I understand the value of intuition. But my disagreement is that according to me

you can know something unfailingly without the help of intuition. That's what

make astrology a science.

Punit Pandey

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

Dear punit Pandeyji,

It is good that you are able to predict correctly everytime through application

of the science. However you have not given your opinion on why the shloka in

Astrological Magazine is given by pride of place by an astrologer of the

eminence of Dr.(Late) B.V.Raman.

Again, how should one explain the yogas given for one to become an astrologer in

the very science, the mere application of which gives unfailing results

everytime as claimed by you. Would this not be a contradiction?

Chandrashekhar.

-

Punit Pandey

vedic astrology

Thursday, April 24, 2003 9:11 PM

Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Is KP sufficiently vedic?

Chandrashekar Ji,

Dr. Rajiv C. Karekar has given a test in his last mail. I also use that test

regularly and found it never failing. For the last few years I am checking it

continuously and getting amazing results. For this I don't think any sort of

intuition is needed for getting correct results. Even a person with a little

knowledge of astrology can know future with the given statistical analysis. It

is general principle. Can't we extend the whole astrology this way where logic

and knowledge will prevail over intuition?

I understand that astrology can help in developing intuition. With this

continuous development, an astrologer need not to go through horoscope for

predicting. He can observe the environment and the person and predict anything.

But quoting "intuition" again and again this way will not help in developing

astrology in scientific manner.

Waiting for your views.

Punit Pandey

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

Dear Punit Pandey,

You have missed the import behind the statement. If you happen to read

Astrological magazine of Dr.(Late) B.V. Raman, you will find a shloka under the

mast head. It states "Phalani Grahacharena Soochayanti manishina . Ko Vakta

Taratamasya Tamekam Vedhasam vina." Dr. Raman's contribution to imparting

knowledge of Astrology is undisputed. Why do you think he gave the pride of

place to this shloka? I would like to have your valuable comments on this

aspect.

Chandrashekhar.

-

punitastrologer

vedic astrology

Wednesday, April 23, 2003 12:54 AM

[vedic astrology] Re: Is KP sufficiently vedic?

Dear Mr. Chandrashekhar,If it is the case do we really need to learn

astrology???? It is one of the reason the astrology can not be called a

science.Punit Pandeyvedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar"

<boxdel> wrote:> Dear Gauranga,> You have put in a nutshell the essence of

accuracy achieved in predictions.I too believe that when one's predictions come

true, the lord uses one as a vehicle to convey message to the Jataka whose time

to listen to his Bhagya has arrived.> Regards,> Chandrashekhar.> -----

Original Message ----- > Gauranga Das > To:

vedic astrology > Tuesday, April 22, 2003 9:01 PM>

Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Is KP sufficiently vedic?> > > JAYA

JAGANNATHA!> > Dear friends,> > Namaste.> > I'm not conversant in detail

with the KP system, but as far as I remember> from our talks on the Nyderabad

SJC conference, they use the Vimsottari> lords as lords of Nakshatras. If you

look more deeply into BPHS, you will> see that Maharishis Parashara assigns

different planets ot the 27 Naksatras,> whcih become rulers of the initial

Vimsottari Dasa if their Moon is placed> there. However, I would not equate

this to rulership of the Nakshatra> itself, for which he presents 27 Devatas.

You should bear in mind that for> Astottari, Sodasottari or for that matter

any other Udu dasha, the> distribution of dasha lords linked to nakshatras is

utterly different. So> even if one assumes that nakshatras are lorded by

Vimsottari lords, if let's> say Astottari describes his chart better than

this will not work. Alos> reffering to Deha and Jiva, for me it is too far

stretched, so I cna't> really relate to it. As you may know they use not only

nakshatra lords but> sublords, sub-sublords etc.> > This however does not

disprove that the KP system may give accurate> predictions. Those who use it

may give their experience. In the same vain,> Vedic astrologers do not

consider western astrology to be sufficiently> grounded, however some western

astrologers may still be able to issue proper> predictions. This is because

the astrological calculations are tools that we> use but intuition or

giudance from the Paramatma is actually crucial. If one> fdoes not get

guidance from God then no amount of astrological tools however> authentic

will help him to give accurate predictions.> > Yours,> > Gauranga Das Vedic

Astrologer> gauranga@b...> Jyotish Remedies:>

WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET> Phone:+36-309-140-839> > > ----- Original Message

-----> "monmuk111" <monmuk111>> To:

<vedic astrology>> Monday, April 21, 2003 7:05 PM>

[vedic astrology] Re: Is KP sufficiently vedic?> > > > Dear

friends:> >> > Are you guys talking about the KP/Systems approach. I've

sincerely> > with an open mind tried to study the Systems approach and I

geniunely> > feels that Systems approach is a big heap of crap. To give you

an> > example--it says that for a Scorpio ascendant, Saturn in the most> >

benefic planet. Now, per the PURE vedic astrology, Saturn is a> > functional

malefic for Scorpio ascendant and this principle applies> > in my personal

life, every time I go throug the antardasha of Saturn,> > my life turns

upside down.> >> > Now, when Systems approach says that Saturn is the MBPF

for Scorpio> > ascendant, it is just a joke or a lie or just a heap of crap.>

>> > I tried to apply the Sytems approach principles to the charts of my>

> family and friends and NOTHING applies. Not one prediction made per> >

Systems Approach coinsides with the lives and events in the life of> > my

friends and family; whereas, all the PURE vedic principlea and> > predictions

apply.> >> > This is just my experience of the KP/Systems approach. I'm not

sure> > if KP and Systems are one and the same thing, I'm only commenting on>

> the Systems Approach developed by somebody named Chowdry.> >> > M.Desai>

>> >> > vedic astrology, Punit Pandey> >

<punitastrologer> wrote:> > > Dear Mr. Visti,> > > Thanks for your

comments.> > >> > > I have my difference of opinion regarding KP (Even for

lal kitab,> > but that I don't want to discuss here). It seems that KP has

taken> > some other path than vedic astrology but if you go through this> >

system, you will find parahsari jyotish in the heart. I see four> > major

differences from parashari astrology -> > >> > > 1. Use of Placidus system

of house division (western one)> > >> > > 2. User of SUB theory> > >> >

> 3. Giving more importance to Naksharta. Saying that planet gives> > the

result of nakshatra in which it is situated.> > >> > > 4. Differenct

ayanamsa (but no one know which ayanamsa was used by> > Parashara himself)>

> >> > > From above you can see the 2,3 and 4 and based more or less on> >

vedic astrology. SUB theory is devised from Vimshottari Dasha system> > as

it is. The same division has been used. The same is for Nakshatra,> > some

nadi author also give importance to nakshatra this way. And as> > you said

that there is lack of concensus even among vedic astrologers> > for

ayanamsas. Only the point 1 (i.e. the house division system) does> > not

match with vedic astrology.> > >> > > Although I don't say that I have

sufficient knowledge for> > discussing this topic but in my opinion even KP

should be part of> > vedic astrology. Even I have no intention to hurt

anyone. We must> > keep inventing and improving astrology, if it is possible.

If we will> > oppose KP, It will be just like scientists opposing astrology

without> > trying to understand it. Even some vedic astrologers are using>

> principles similar to KP in some way or other to improve predicitons.> > In

my opinion KP with divisional charts and some more dasas might> > become next

step in astrology. And it is only possible if we will> > first open ourselves

for discussion on non-vedic sounding systems of> > astrology.> > >> > > It

will be good for discussion if we will get opinion of all Gurus.> > I also

want to know whether anything build/developed/invented on the> > foundation

of vedic astrology can be called vedic astrology or not?> > >> > >> > >>

> > Thanks & Regards,> > > Punit Pandey> > >> > > Visti Larsen

<vishnu@l...> wrote:Hare Rama Krishna------------------> > -----Dear Punit,It

is all vedic astrology, however even within vedic> > astrology, the Jyotishis

have a mind of their own. Those who follow> > Parasari strictly understand

that the nodes must always be mean, and> > not true, to fulfill the duty

assigned to them, hence by implication> > of this, one uses mean nodes. But

yet some people do not follow this.> > As for ayanamsa, the reason for lack

of consensus is lack of valid> > research. Some oppine an ayanamsa that is

more than 10 degrees from> > lahiri, but i can assure you that their basis

for their readings is> > much different from that taught by parasara.. mainly

because those> > natives don't read scriptures to begin with, and make up

their own> > rules along the way! This is not Jyotish the way Parasara wanted

it> > to be. Krishnamurty created the KP system on a similar basis.. namely>

> that noone would teach him Jyotish! Tajik is incorperated into the> >

systems we know today and is no doubt an interesting system of> > astrology,

but i won't comment. Bhrigu-Jyotish is Nadi-Jyotish and> > Nadi-Jyotish is

the same Jyotish that Parasara taught.. have no doubt> > about that. Now to

adress your question on acuracy.Once an> > astrologer gets a birth chart,

his/her prime objective is to confirm> > its acuracy. So the question of

birthtime acuracy is simply not> > relevant, as usually the Astrologer is out

to prove its acuracy to> > begin with. When the astrologer has done so, the

readings may flow> > like nectar, so the question is Birth-time

rectification. Hope this> > helps.Best wishes> > > Visti> > > ---> > >

Sri Jagannath Center: http://.org> > > Bhagavad Purana:

http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org> > > iTRANS 99 Font:

http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org----- Original> > Message ----- Punit

Pandey vedic astrology> > Friday, April 18, 2003

1:16 PMRe: [vedic astrology]> > Re: accuracy in time of birth> > >

Dear Mr. Partha, Sorry for mistake. I used to think that Jaimini,> > Tajik,

Hora, Nadi, Bhrigu, KP, Lal Kitab etc. all belong to vedic> > astrology.

Probably some are not as vedic. Seeking experts' comments.> > Punit Pandey>

> >> > > "V.partha sarathy" <partvinu5> wrote:hare rama krishna> > >

dear punit> > >> > > the group discusses vedic astrology. the name of the

group is> > written> > > in bold letters. i hope you understand> > >

regards> > > partha> > >> > >> > > --- In

vedic astrology, Punit Pandey> > > <punitastrologer>

wrote:> > > >> > > > Hello All KP Experts,> > > >> > > > I have a

question to ask to all experts of this group. Today we> > > utilize sub and

sub-sub lords of cusps in nearly all predictions> > > based on KP System.>

> > >> > > > We all know that there is no consensus on ayanamsa, no

consensus> > on> > > true rahu and mean rahu, known variations of computer

programs,> > > unsteady motion of planets, unavailability of atomic clocks

at> > > hospitals/homes etc., is it OK to use sub-sub (cuspal sub-sub lords>

> > change in average of 25 seconds) lord or even sub lord (cuspal sub> > >

lords changes in average of 4 minuts)???> > > >> > > > I think it is a

basic question and good subject to debate. At> > least> > > lots of people

in India don't have accurate timing with them> > > (accuracy less than 4

minutes).> > > >> > > > Thanks in advance.> > > >> > > > Regards,> >

> >> > > > Punit Pandey> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >

> > > > > > > > The New

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April 29, 2003

I differ a little bit again. According to me the major reason of failure of

computer predictions is there inability to take feedback. An astrologer can

take feedback but a computer can not (or at least Artificial Intelligency is

not appeared in Astrology till yet). I am sure there will be one day when

computers will be able to predict somethig more accurate. SO I CALL IT FEEDBACK

NOT INTUITION.

If we make any software based on Bhrigu Samhita or Nadi System of Astrology, the

softwares can be more accurate. What I wanted to say it is the design of

Parashari Astrology that is difficult to translate into a computer program but

a system like KP is comparatively easier to translate. I hope we will be able

to see such softwares in near future.

Your Views.

Regards,

Punit PandeyChandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: