Recommending demigod worship (Question to devote-as...

March 14, 2003

Just one more thought. If we can read(predict) via the planets

(astrology) in terms of trends(not specifics per se) ones earthly

journey, why couldn't it extend into the non-earthly journey as

well.

Jeff

vedic astrology, Sadashiv Dharwarkar

<sdharwar> wrote:

>

> Dear Ramnarayanan,

> If "ego" is a problem, why then "Ahankara" was one of the first

eight items God created and then Sharira to house those items? The

eight items according to Manusmruti were Atma, Mind, Ahankara, and

Panchendriyas.

> Regards,

> Sadashiv.

>

> "P.S. RAMANARAYANAN" <p_s_ramanarayanan@h...> wrote:

> SARVAM GYANANDAMAYAM JAGAT

>

> AUM GURUBYO NAMAH

>

> Dear Jeff,Gordon,Narasimha and others,

>

> My humble submission.

>

> Jeff had stated in his last email that in the word 'faith' truth

lies in subjective beliefs and that astrology must go beyond faith

and survive reasoning.

>

> In India Astrology is called as jyotish vidya. Jyotish means

towards jyothi meaning enlightenment. You might be aware from the

Kalapurusha Jatakha(horoscope of time personified - Aries as

Ascendant) that where venus is exalted Mercury is debilitated. You

will understand that this venus is the lord of 2nd and 7th house.

What does this mean? A person who can raise above the limits/bondage

of kutumbha and carnal pleasures can expand through the medium of

love to the level of embracing the universe. In front of such

Mahaanubhavas/realised souls there is no scope for separate existence

of reasoning faculty/intellctual capabaility represented by Mercury.

In other words there is no trace of ego in such states. If there is a

urge to know the roots of the intellect/reasoning faculty can the

intellect help?!

>

> Let me go further. Atman+ imprints(intellect+mind)+sharira(body) in

totality speaks about the life of an individual.If you want to know

the nature of Atman can the intellect help? What jyotish vidya does

is to help the native/individual in transcending the boundaries of

imprints. This can be further simplified. Silence + Sound

(nisabdha+sabdha) are the two major concepts of life. Silence is

called as Atman. Sound can be further divided. Vaikhari, madhyama,

pashyanti, Para. Vaikhari to pashyanthi are various levels of sounds

while Para state is nothing but silence.

>

> Everybody knows that sounds and figures are interrelated. This is

technically called as Namaroopa.Nama is nothing but sound/imprints

(region of intellect & mind) while Roopa refers to Sharira. The

nature of Atman is Sat-chit-ananda/truth-knowledge and bliss.

>

> Jyotish vidya teaches that the entire Zodiac is full of sounds(108

in all). There are 28 nakshatra mandalas(including Abhijit). Each

nakshatra comprises of four padas/charanas which is verily related to

particular type of sound. Combination of various sounds results in

various Roopas/Shariras. We call it technically as Mantras and

Gods. The knowledge which helps in one getting out of his disturbed

mental state so as to facilitate the journey to progress further is

called as Mantrashastra. When the destination/goal isAtman what is

the use of sitting in the earlier stations?!

>

> Without a complete knowledge of Mantrashastra and Jyotish vidya

(starbased/nirayana) let us not complain that astrology is not

complete so long as it fails to survive the test of reasoning.The

root cause of all problems is ego/"I". Self-enquiry/who-am-I can help

a bit.Help can be sought from a Guru. Guru means dispeller of

darkness.

>

> In the lotus feet of Satguru,

>

> p.s.ramanarayanan.

>

> >"Jeff" >vedic astrology >vedic-

astrology >[vedic astrology] Recommending

demigod worship (Re: Question to devote-as... >Fri, 14 Mar 2003

14:28:03 -0000 > >Gordon, > >I did not intend to start a debate. But

the Ayanamsa is still up for >grabs it seems. Demigods are ideas

spoken as truth, yet contain >flaws. In order to dispell these

characterations one must be sure the >truth is there. I suppose in

the word "faith" the truth lies in ones >subjective beliefs. But if

astrology is to advance, it must go beyond >faith in my opinion. It

must survive reasoning. > >Jeff > >vedic-

astrology, GWBrennan@a... wrote: > > Dear Jeff > >

I'm puzzled what you mean by 'flaws in the sidereal zodiac'. I can

>see flaws > > in an 'our dogma is the only valid one' type of

astrology or in the >idea that > > only astrologers in the past had

real knowledge, but the sidereal >or the > > tropical zodiac are

surely both neutral in that respect. 'Sayana' >and > > 'Nirayana'

i.e. tropical or sidereal zodiacs have different >purposes. > >

Nirayana is the basic astronomical system and Sayana has a specific

>annual > > purpose. If you use the Sayana system for all your

astrology then >you have a > > skewed view of a chart and a lot of

basic astrology will not work >on it. > > They can not really be

equally compared. I think that the problem >lies in > > what people

believe astrology to be. From my studies it is clear >to me that > >

astrology was once considered as science, in almost the same way as

>today > > materialists think of modern science as the only source of

valid >knowledge. > > Astrology was the only science in that sense.

All knowledge was >there, but > > there was a great skill and usually

many years of devotion in >learing all of > > the rules to interpret

it and in becoming skilled in the art. >Today that > > real astrology

has become fragmented or partly lost. I had a quick >look at > > Hank

Friedman's site - very impressive and his information given >out on >

> software is really excellent - 6 years ago I went to a lecture he

>gave on > > that and he was good then. His site approaches

astrological >descriptions by > > two methods - one is simply

descriptive and there is a lot of that - > fine you > > can simply

examine that and see if you agree or not and how it >compares with >

> what you have learnt of the signs, planets, etc. or as astudent you

>can > > easily learn from it. However it also uses astrology for the

very >limited > > purpose that popular astrology is used for today -

i.e. to describe >and to > > give form to the ego, which has no real

existence anyway - well it >exists, > > but it is never the same.

People are totally emotionally attached >to their > > egos and some

astrology today seems to be used principally to >heighten their > >

easily manipulable sense of their own always changing and always

>unreal ego, > > to which end any untruth will serve perfectly. If it

was 4003 AD >now and not > > 2003 people might have woken up to the

fact that western astrology >(Sayana > > zodiac) is missing out on

the real knowledge, as the western zodiac >is moving > > away from

the astronomical positions of planets and the further it >goes the >

> more unreal its methods will necessarily become. > > > > Regards >

> Gordon >

>

> Cricket - World Cup 2003 News, Views and Match Reports.

> Sponsor

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

> Web Hosting - establish your business online

March 14, 2003

SARVAM GYANANANDAMAYAM JAGAT

AUM GURUBYO NAMAH

Dear Jeff,

Charts are also drawn for the time of death. 7th & 12th houses are also examined

to know the place of rebirth. Past life can be read from an analysis of

Shastyamsa chart. There are also higher harmonic charts. Four vedas,upavedas,

vedangas and upavedangas give a total picture. The word rishi means discoverer.

If only you give your life to the concept of time then the concept of time can

be understood/full of life. In other words meaningful.

In the forest of penance peace rules and animals/animosity is banished.

in the feet of SATGURU GYANANANDA,

p..s.ramanarayanan.

>"Jeff"

>vedic astrology >vedic astrology

>[vedic astrology] Recommending demigod worship (Re: Question to

devote-as... >Fri, 14 Mar 2003 22:56:27 -0000 > >Just one more thought.

If we can read(predict) via the planets >(astrology) in terms of trends(not

specifics per se) ones earthly >journey, why couldn't it extend into the

non-earthly journey as >well. > >Jeff > >--- In

vedic astrology, Sadashiv Dharwarkar > wrote: > > > > Dear

Ramnarayanan, > > If "ego" is a problem, why then "Ahankara" was one of the

first >eight items God created and then Sharira to house those items? The

>eight items according to Manusmruti were Atma, Mind, Ahankara, and

>Panchendriyas. > > Regards, > > Sadashiv. > > > > "P.S. RAMANARAYANAN" wrote:

> > SARVAM GYANANDAMAYAM JAGAT > > > > AUM GURUBYO NAMAH > > > > Dear

Jeff,Gordon,Narasimha and others, > > > > My humble submission. > > > > Jeff

had stated in his last email that in the word 'faith' truth >lies in subjective

beliefs and that astrology must go beyond faith >and survive reasoning. > > > >

In India Astrology is called as jyotish vidya. Jyotish means >towards jyothi

meaning enlightenment. You might be aware from the >Kalapurusha

Jatakha(horoscope of time personified - Aries as >Ascendant) that where venus

is exalted Mercury is debilitated. You >will understand that this venus is the

lord of 2nd and 7th house. >What does this mean? A person who can raise above

the limits/bondage >of kutumbha and carnal pleasures can expand through the

medium of >love to the level of embracing the universe. In front of such

>Mahaanubhavas/realised souls there is no scope for separate existence >of

reasoning faculty/intellctual capabaility represented by Mercury. >In other

words there is no trace of ego in such states. If there is a >urge to know the

roots of the intellect/reasoning faculty can the >intellect help?! > > > > Let

me go further. Atman+ imprints(intellect+mind)+sharira(body) in >totality

speaks about the life of an individual.If you want to know >the nature of Atman

can the intellect help? What jyotish vidya does >is to help the

native/individual in transcending the boundaries of >imprints. This can be

further simplified. Silence + Sound >(nisabdha+sabdha) are the two major

concepts of life. Silence is >called as Atman. Sound can be further divided.

Vaikhari, madhyama, >pashyanti, Para. Vaikhari to pashyanthi are various levels

of sounds >while Para state is nothing but silence. > > > > Everybody knows that

sounds and figures are interrelated. This is >technically called as

Namaroopa.Nama is nothing but sound/imprints >(region of intellect & mind)

while Roopa refers to Sharira. The >nature of Atman is

Sat-chit-ananda/truth-knowledge and bliss. > > > > Jyotish vidya teaches that

the entire Zodiac is full of sounds(108 >in all). There are 28 nakshatra

mandalas(including Abhijit). Each >nakshatra comprises of four padas/charanas

which is verily related to >particular type of sound. Combination of various

sounds results in >various Roopas/Shariras. We call it technically as Mantras

and >Gods. The knowledge which helps in one getting out of his disturbed

>mental state so as to facilitate the journey to progress further is >called as

Mantrashastra. When the destination/goal isAtman what is >the use of sitting in

the earlier stations?! > > > > Without a complete knowledge of Mantrashastra

and Jyotish vidya >(starbased/nirayana) let us not complain that astrology is

not >complete so long as it fails to survive the test of reasoning.The >root

cause of all problems is ego/"I". Self-enquiry/who-am-I can help >a bit.Help

can be sought from a Guru. Guru means dispeller of >darkness. > > > > In the

lotus feet of Satguru, > > > > p.s.ramanarayanan. > > > > > > >"Jeff"

>vedic astrology >vedic-

>astrology >[vedic astrology] Recommending >demigod

worship (Re: Question to devote-as... >Fri, 14 Mar 2003 >14:28:03 -0000 >

>Gordon, > >I did not intend to start a debate. But >the Ayanamsa is still up

for >grabs it seems. Demigods are ideas >spoken as truth, yet contain >flaws.

In order to dispell these >characterations one must be sure the >truth is

there. I suppose in >the word "faith" the truth lies in ones >subjective

beliefs. But if >astrology is to advance, it must go beyond >faith in my

opinion. It >must survive reasoning. > >Jeff > >vedic-

>astrology, GWBrennan@a... wrote: > > Dear Jeff > > >I'm

puzzled what you mean by 'flaws in the sidereal zodiac'. I can > >see flaws > >

in an 'our dogma is the only valid one' type of >astrology or in the >idea that

> > only astrologers in the past had >real knowledge, but the sidereal >or the

> > tropical zodiac are >surely both neutral in that respect. 'Sayana' >and > >

'Nirayana' >i.e. tropical or sidereal zodiacs have different >purposes. > >

>Nirayana is the basic astronomical system and Sayana has a specific > >annual

> > purpose. If you use the Sayana system for all your >astrology then >you

have a > > skewed view of a chart and a lot of >basic astrology will not work

>on it. > > They can not really be >equally compared. I think that the problem

>lies in > > what people >believe astrology to be. From my studies it is clear

>to me that > > >astrology was once considered as science, in almost the same

way as > >today > > materialists think of modern science as the only source of

>valid >knowledge. > > Astrology was the only science in that sense. >All

knowledge was >there, but > > there was a great skill and usually >many years

of devotion in >learing all of > > the rules to interpret >it and in becoming

skilled in the art. >Today that > > real astrology >has become fragmented or

partly lost. I had a quick >look at > > Hank >Friedman's site - very impressive

and his information given >out on > > > software is really excellent - 6 years

ago I went to a lecture he > >gave on > > that and he was good then. His site

approaches >astrological >descriptions by > > two methods - one is simply

>descriptive and there is a lot of that - > fine you > > can simply >examine

that and see if you agree or not and how it >compares with > > > what you have

learnt of the signs, planets, etc. or as astudent you > >can > > easily learn

from it. However it also uses astrology for the >very >limited > > purpose that

popular astrology is used for today - >i.e. to describe >and to > > give form to

the ego, which has no real >existence anyway - well it >exists, > > but it is

never the same. >People are totally emotionally attached >to their > > egos and

some >astrology today seems to be used principally to >heighten their > >

>easily manipulable sense of their own always changing and always > >unreal

ego, > > to which end any untruth will serve perfectly. If it >was 4003 AD >now

and not > > 2003 people might have woken up to the >fact that western astrology

>(Sayana > > zodiac) is missing out on >the real knowledge, as the western

zodiac >is moving > > away from >the astronomical positions of planets and the

further it >goes the > > > more unreal its methods will necessarily become. > >

> > Regards > > > Gordon > > > > > > > Cricket

- World Cup 2003 News, Views and Match Reports. > >

Sponsor > > > > Archives:

vedic astrology > > > > Group info:

vedic astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE:

Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > ....... May

Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > Your use of is subject to the

Terms of >Service. > > > > > > > > > >

> > Web Hosting - establish your business online > Get

more buddies in your list. Win prizes

March 14, 2003

SARVAM GYANANANDAMAYAM JAGAT

AUM GURUBYO NAMAH

Dear Sadashiv,

What is the difference between king Hiranayakashipu(ref; Narasimha Avatar) and

his son prahalada? Self-realisation(Su darshana) does not mean the realisation

of I am God. It is the realisation of seing our selves in all other selves and

all other selves in our selves(vishwaroopa darshana). Upachaya sthanas in the

horoscope speak about the concept of freewill. Concept of ego can be understood

from this.

Spark of divinity is within. This is the all pervading Parampurusha/Parasakthi.

The more you seek within as to who is this /what is this i, petals of wisdom

open inside.

We are happy with intellectual jargons. This happiness is temporary. If only we

understand the AGNI behind the intellect Ananda/satisfaction results. Intellect

can be compared to a pot kept atop Agni. The moment the contents of the pot

evaporates the pot is consumed by the Agni. Confusion persists so long you try

to pour water into the pot/intellect.

Questions relating to why it has been said in this work or other works can drag

on forever. From the level of information/knowledge let us raise to the level

of consciousness. We all know about Janaka shadakshari "HARE RAMA KRISHNA".

Let us also know that Janaka was called as VIDEHA - meaning beyond the

boundaries of Deha/body.

SADA SHIVAM is different from sadashiv dharwarkar.

in the feet of SATGURU GYANANANDA,

p.s.ramanarayanan.

>Sadashiv Dharwarkar

>vedic astrology >vedic astrology

>Re: [vedic astrology] Recommending demigod worship (Re: Question to

devote-as... >Fri, 14 Mar 2003 12:50:55 -0800 (PST) > > >Dear

Ramnarayanan, >If "ego" is a problem, why then "Ahankara" was one of the first

eight items God created and then Sharira to house those items? The eight items

according to Manusmruti were Atma, Mind, Ahankara, and Panchendriyas. >Regards,

>Sadashiv. > > "P.S. RAMANARAYANAN" wrote: >SARVAM GYANANDAMAYAM JAGAT > >AUM

GURUBYO NAMAH > >Dear Jeff,Gordon,Narasimha and others, > >My humble

submission. > >Jeff had stated in his last email that in the word 'faith' truth

lies in subjective beliefs and that astrology must go beyond faith and survive

reasoning. > >In India Astrology is called as jyotish vidya. Jyotish means

towards jyothi meaning enlightenment. You might be aware from the Kalapurusha

Jatakha(horoscope of time personified - Aries as Ascendant) that where venus is

exalted Mercury is debilitated. You will understand that this venus is the lord

of 2nd and 7th house. What does this mean? A person who can raise above the

limits/bondage of kutumbha and carnal pleasures can expand through the medium

of love to the level of embracing the universe. In front of such

Mahaanubhavas/realised souls there is no scope for separate existence of

reasoning faculty/intellctual capabaility represented by Mercury. In other

words there is no trace of ego in such states. If there is a urge to know the

roots of the intellect/reasoning faculty can the intellect help?! > >Let me go

further. Atman+ imprints(intellect+mind)+sharira(body) in totality speaks about

the life of an individual.If you want to know the nature of Atman can the

intellect help? What jyotish vidya does is to help the native/individual in

transcending the boundaries of imprints. This can be further simplified.

Silence + Sound(nisabdha+sabdha) are the two major concepts of life. Silence is

called as Atman. Sound can be further divided. Vaikhari, madhyama, pashyanti,

Para. Vaikhari to pashyanthi are various levels of sounds while Para state is

nothing but silence. > >Everybody knows that sounds and figures are

interrelated. This is technically called as Namaroopa.Nama is nothing but

sound/imprints(region of intellect & mind) while Roopa refers to Sharira. The

nature of Atman is Sat-chit-ananda/truth-knowledge and bliss. > >Jyotish vidya

teaches that the entire Zodiac is full of sounds(108 in all). There are 28

nakshatra mandalas(including Abhijit). Each nakshatra comprises of four

padas/charanas which is verily related to particular type of sound. Combination

of various sounds results in various Roopas/Shariras. We call it technically as

Mantras and Gods. The knowledge which helps in one getting out of his disturbed

mental state so as to facilitate the journey to progress further is called as

Mantrashastra. When the destination/goal isAtman what is the use of sitting in

the earlier stations?! > >Without a complete knowledge of Mantrashastra and

Jyotish vidya(starbased/nirayana) let us not complain that astrology is not

complete so long as it fails to survive the test of reasoning.The root cause of

all problems is ego/"I". Self-enquiry/who-am-I can help a bit.Help can be sought

from a Guru. Guru means dispeller of darkness. > >In the lotus feet of Satguru,

> >p.s.ramanarayanan. > > > >"Jeff" >

vedic astrology >vedic astrology >Subject:

[vedic astrology] Recommending demigod worship (Re: Question to devote-as...

>Fri, 14 Mar 2003 14:28:03 -0000 > >Gordon, > >I did not intend to start

a debate. But the Ayanamsa is still up for >grabs it seems. Demigods are ideas

spoken as truth, yet contain >flaws. In order to dispell these characterations

one must be sure the >truth is there. I suppose in the word "faith" the truth

lies in ones >subjective beliefs. But if astrology is to advance, it must go

beyond >faith in my opinion. It must survive reasoning. > >Jeff > >--- In

vedic astrology, GWBrennan@a... wrote: > > Dear Jeff > > I'm

puzzled what you mean by 'flaws in the sidereal zodiac'. I can >see flaws > >

in an 'our dogma is the only valid one' type of astrology or in the >idea that

> > only astrologers in the past had real knowledge, but the sidereal >or the >

> tropical zodiac are surely both neutral in that respect. 'Sayana' >and > >

'Nirayana' i.e. tropical or sidereal zodiacs have different >purposes. > >

Nirayana is the basic astronomical system and Sayana has a specific >annual > >

purpose. If you use the Sayana system for all your astrology then >you have a >

> skewed view of a chart and a lot of basic astrology will not work >on it. > >

They can not really be equally compared. I think that the problem >lies in > >

what people believe astrology to be. From my studies it is clear >to me that >

> astrology was once considered as science, in almost the same way as >today >

> materialists think of modern science as the only source of valid >knowledge.

> > Astrology was the only science in that sense. All knowledge was >there, but

> > there was a great skill and usually many years of devotion in >learing all

of > > the rules to interpret it and in becoming skilled in the art. >Today

that > > real astrology has become fragmented or partly lost. I had a quick

>look at > > Hank Friedman's site - very impressive and his information given

>out on > > software is really excellent - 6 years ago I went to a lecture he

>gave on > > that and he was good then. His site approaches astrological

>descriptions by > > two methods - one is simply descriptive and there is a lot

of that - > fine you > > can simply examine that and see if you agree or not and

how it >compares with > > what you have learnt of the signs, planets, etc. or as

astudent you >can > > easily learn from it. However it also uses astrology for

the very >limited > > purpose that popular astrology is used for today - i.e.

to describe >and to > > give form to the ego, which has no real existence

anyway - well it >exists, > > but it is never the same. People are totally

emotionally attached >to their > > egos and some astrology today seems to be

used principally to >heighten their > > easily manipulable sense of their own

always changing and always >unreal ego, > > to which end any untruth will serve

perfectly. If it was 4003 AD >now and not > > 2003 people might have woken up to

the fact that western astrology >(Sayana > > zodiac) is missing out on the real

knowledge, as the western zodiac >is moving > > away from the astronomical

positions of planets and the further it >goes the > > more unreal its methods

will necessarily become. > > > > Regards > > Gordon > >

> >Cricket - World Cup 2003 News, Views and

Match Reports. > Sponsor > >Archives:

vedic astrology > >Group info:

vedic astrology/info.html > >To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology- > >....... May Jupiter's light

shine on us ....... > >>

> > > >

> > > Web Hosting -

establish your business online Fun on the mobile with ringtones, graphics,

logos etc.

March 16, 2003

Thank you for helping me out.

With best regards,

Sadashiv.

"P.S. RAMANARAYANAN" <p_s_ramanarayanan (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: