Recommending demigod worship (Question to devote-as...

[Guest guest]

Gordon,

 

I did not intend to start a debate. But the Ayanamsa is still up for

grabs it seems. Demigods are ideas spoken as truth, yet contain

flaws. In order to dispell these characterations one must be sure the

truth is there. I suppose in the word "faith" the truth lies in ones

subjective beliefs. But if astrology is to advance, it must go beyond

faith in my opinion. It must survive reasoning.

 

Jeff

 

vedic astrology, GWBrennan@a... wrote:

> Dear Jeff

> I'm puzzled what you mean by 'flaws in the sidereal zodiac'. I can

see flaws

> in an 'our dogma is the only valid one' type of astrology or in the

idea that

> only astrologers in the past had real knowledge, but the sidereal

or the

> tropical zodiac are surely both neutral in that respect. 'Sayana'

and

> 'Nirayana' i.e. tropical or sidereal zodiacs have different

purposes.

> Nirayana is the basic astronomical system and Sayana has a specific

annual

> purpose. If you use the Sayana system for all your astrology then

you have a

> skewed view of a chart and a lot of basic astrology will not work

on it.

> They can not really be equally compared. I think that the problem

lies in

> what people believe astrology to be. From my studies it is clear

to me that

> astrology was once considered as science, in almost the same way as

today

> materialists think of modern science as the only source of valid

knowledge.

> Astrology was the only science in that sense. All knowledge was

there, but

> there was a great skill and usually many years of devotion in

learing all of

> the rules to interpret it and in becoming skilled in the art.

Today that

> real astrology has become fragmented or partly lost. I had a quick

look at

> Hank Friedman's site - very impressive and his information given

out on

> software is really excellent - 6 years ago I went to a lecture he

gave on

> that and he was good then. His site approaches astrological

descriptions by

> two methods - one is simply descriptive and there is a lot of that -

fine you

> can simply examine that and see if you agree or not and how it

compares with

> what you have learnt of the signs, planets, etc. or as astudent you

can

> easily learn from it. However it also uses astrology for the very

limited

> purpose that popular astrology is used for today - i.e. to describe

and to

> give form to the ego, which has no real existence anyway - well it

exists,

> but it is never the same. People are totally emotionally attached

to their

> egos and some astrology today seems to be used principally to

heighten their

> easily manipulable sense of their own always changing and always

unreal ego,

> to which end any untruth will serve perfectly. If it was 4003 AD

now and not

> 2003 people might have woken up to the fact that western astrology

(Sayana

> zodiac) is missing out on the real knowledge, as the western zodiac

is moving

> away from the astronomical positions of planets and the further it

goes the

> more unreal its methods will necessarily become.

>

> Regards

> Gordon

[Guest guest]

SARVAM GYANANDAMAYAM JAGAT

AUM GURUBYO NAMAH

Dear Jeff,Gordon,Narasimha and others,

My humble submission.

Jeff had stated in his last email that in the word 'faith' truth lies in

subjective beliefs and that astrology must go beyond faith and survive

reasoning.

In India Astrology is called as jyotish vidya. Jyotish means towards jyothi

meaning enlightenment. You might be aware from the Kalapurusha

Jatakha(horoscope of time personified - Aries as Ascendant) that where venus is

exalted Mercury is debilitated. You will understand that this venus is the lord

of 2nd and 7th house. What does this mean? A person who can raise above the

limits/bondage of kutumbha and carnal pleasures can expand through the medium

of love to the level of embracing the universe. In front of such

Mahaanubhavas/realised souls there is no scope for separate existence of

reasoning faculty/intellctual capabaility represented by Mercury. In other

words there is no trace of ego in such states. If there is a urge to know the

roots of the intellect/reasoning faculty can the intellect help?!

Let me go further. Atman+ imprints(intellect+mind)+sharira(body) in totality

speaks about the life of an individual.If you want to know the nature of Atman

can the intellect help? What jyotish vidya does is to help the

native/individual in transcending the boundaries of imprints. This can be

further simplified. Silence + Sound(nisabdha+sabdha) are the two major concepts

of life. Silence is called as Atman. Sound can be further divided. Vaikhari,

madhyama, pashyanti, Para. Vaikhari to pashyanthi are various levels of sounds

while Para state is nothing but silence.

Everybody knows that sounds and figures are interrelated. This is technically

called as Namaroopa.Nama is nothing but sound/imprints(region of intellect &

mind) while Roopa refers to Sharira. The nature of Atman is

Sat-chit-ananda/truth-knowledge and bliss.

Jyotish vidya teaches that the entire Zodiac is full of sounds(108 in all).

There are 28 nakshatra mandalas(including Abhijit). Each nakshatra comprises

of four padas/charanas which is verily related to particular type of sound.

Combination of various sounds results in various Roopas/Shariras. We call it

technically as Mantras and Gods. The knowledge which helps in one getting out

of his disturbed mental state so as to facilitate the journey to progress

further is called as Mantrashastra. When the destination/goal isAtman what is

the use of sitting in the earlier stations?!

Without a complete knowledge of Mantrashastra and Jyotish

vidya(starbased/nirayana) let us not complain that astrology is not complete so

long as it fails to survive the test of reasoning.The root cause of all problems

is ego/"I". Self-enquiry/who-am-I can help a bit.Help can be sought from a

Guru. Guru means dispeller of darkness.

In the lotus feet of Satguru,

p.s.ramanarayanan.

>"Jeff"

>vedic astrology >vedic astrology

>[vedic astrology] Recommending demigod worship (Re: Question to

devote-as... >Fri, 14 Mar 2003 14:28:03 -0000 > >Gordon, > >I did not

intend to start a debate. But the Ayanamsa is still up for >grabs it seems.

Demigods are ideas spoken as truth, yet contain >flaws. In order to dispell

these characterations one must be sure the >truth is there. I suppose in the

word "faith" the truth lies in ones >subjective beliefs. But if astrology is to

advance, it must go beyond >faith in my opinion. It must survive reasoning. >

>Jeff > >vedic astrology, GWBrennan@a... wrote: > > Dear

Jeff > > I'm puzzled what you mean by 'flaws in the sidereal zodiac'. I can >see

flaws > > in an 'our dogma is the only valid one' type of astrology or in the

>idea that > > only astrologers in the past had real knowledge, but the

sidereal >or the > > tropical zodiac are surely both neutral in that respect.

'Sayana' >and > > 'Nirayana' i.e. tropical or sidereal zodiacs have different

>purposes. > > Nirayana is the basic astronomical system and Sayana has a

specific >annual > > purpose. If you use the Sayana system for all your

astrology then >you have a > > skewed view of a chart and a lot of basic

astrology will not work >on it. > > They can not really be equally compared. I

think that the problem >lies in > > what people believe astrology to be. From

my studies it is clear >to me that > > astrology was once considered as

science, in almost the same way as >today > > materialists think of modern

science as the only source of valid >knowledge. > > Astrology was the only

science in that sense. All knowledge was >there, but > > there was a great

skill and usually many years of devotion in >learing all of > > the rules to

interpret it and in becoming skilled in the art. >Today that > > real astrology

has become fragmented or partly lost. I had a quick >look at > > Hank Friedman's

site - very impressive and his information given >out on > > software is really

excellent - 6 years ago I went to a lecture he >gave on > > that and he was

good then. His site approaches astrological >descriptions by > > two methods -

one is simply descriptive and there is a lot of that - > fine you > > can

simply examine that and see if you agree or not and how it >compares with > >

what you have learnt of the signs, planets, etc. or as astudent you >can > >

easily learn from it. However it also uses astrology for the very >limited > >

purpose that popular astrology is used for today - i.e. to describe >and to > >

give form to the ego, which has no real existence anyway - well it >exists, > >

but it is never the same. People are totally emotionally attached >to their > >

egos and some astrology today seems to be used principally to >heighten their >

> easily manipulable sense of their own always changing and always >unreal ego,

> > to which end any untruth will serve perfectly. If it was 4003 AD >now and

not > > 2003 people might have woken up to the fact that western astrology

>(Sayana > > zodiac) is missing out on the real knowledge, as the western

zodiac >is moving > > away from the astronomical positions of planets and the

further it >goes the > > more unreal its methods will necessarily become. > > >

> Regards > > Gordon > Cricket - World Cup 2003 News, Views and Match Reports.