A Sanskrit-English Dictionary, Sir Monier Monier-Williams

January 16, 2003

The most comprehensive Sanskrit-English Dictionary available. Over 180.000

entries. Nearly 1.400 printed A4 pages.

http://nazar-k.rbcmail.ru

January 16, 2003

A bit of info on Monier Williams:

Monier Williams another important European scholar who

was hard pressed by the Church. He wrote[1]:

"When the walls of the mighty fortress of Brahmanism

are encircled, undermined and finally stormed by the

soldiers of cross, the victory of Christianity must be

signal and complete."

In his preface to his famous Sanskrit-English

Dictionary, as the Professor of the prestigious Boden

Chair at Oxford, Monier Williams reveals the objective

of founding the Chair for Sanskrit studies by Col.

Boden as to convert the natives of India into

Christianity. He writes thus[2]:

"I must draw attention to the fact that I am only the

second occupant of the Boden Chair, and that its

founder, Col. Boden, stated most explicitly in his

will (dated Aug. 15,1811) that special object of his

munificent bequest was to promote the translation of

the scriptures into Sanskrit; so as to enable his

countrymen to proceed in the conversion of the natives

of India to the Christian Religion."

References:

1. Monier Williams, 'Modern India and Indians', p.247.

2. Monier William, Sanskrit-English Dictionary, 1899,Preface, p. ix.

vedic astrology, "Nazar V. Kravtsiv"

<Nazar_K@m...> wrote:

>

> The most comprehensive Sanskrit-English Dictionary available. Over

180.000 entries. Nearly 1.400 printed A4 pages.

>

> http://nazar-k.rbcmail.ru

January 16, 2003

Dear Venkateshwara,

How is it anyway related to jyotish? Take the good and leave the

things that you dont like.

Your comments would have been of some value if it reflected on the

quality or the lack of it of the dictionary. Discussing personal

opinions of Mr. Williams seem like a waste of bandwidth to me.

regards,

Siva.

vedic astrology, "venkateshwara_reddy

<venkateshwara_reddy>" <venkateshwara_reddy> wrote:

> A bit of info on Monier Williams:

>

> Monier Williams another important European scholar who

> was hard pressed by the Church. He wrote[1]:

>

> "When the walls of the mighty fortress of Brahmanism

> are encircled, undermined and finally stormed by the

> soldiers of cross, the victory of Christianity must be

> signal and complete."

>

> In his preface to his famous Sanskrit-English

> Dictionary, as the Professor of the prestigious Boden

> Chair at Oxford, Monier Williams reveals the objective

> of founding the Chair for Sanskrit studies by Col.

> Boden as to convert the natives of India into

> Christianity. He writes thus[2]:

>

> "I must draw attention to the fact that I am only the

> second occupant of the Boden Chair, and that its

> founder, Col. Boden, stated most explicitly in his

> will (dated Aug. 15,1811) that special object of his

> munificent bequest was to promote the translation of

> the scriptures into Sanskrit; so as to enable his

> countrymen to proceed in the conversion of the natives

> of India to the Christian Religion."

>

> References:

> 1. Monier Williams, 'Modern India and Indians', p.247.

>

> 2. Monier William, Sanskrit-English Dictionary, 1899,Preface, p.

ix.

>

> vedic astrology, "Nazar V. Kravtsiv"

> <Nazar_K@m...> wrote:

> >

> > The most comprehensive Sanskrit-English Dictionary available.

Over

> 180.000 entries. Nearly 1.400 printed A4 pages.

> >

> > http://nazar-k.rbcmail.ru

January 17, 2003

Dear Mr.Venkateshwara,

Thanks a lot for the message. I do not know Sanskrit but as I can read

Hindi I am able to read Sanskrit but without knowing the meaning. As some

of you may be aware Mr. Max Mueller(the famous Max Mueller Bhawan in

Mumbai is named after him)translated Vedas and other ancient scriptures.

He had the same mind set as of Monier Williams. His translations are not

considered fair to the Vedas,the propounders and the followers of Vedic

thought. Same way this Sanskrit dictionary may have its own built in bias

because of Mr.Monier Williams views about the Vedic philosophy and

Hinduism.

With regards,

Jagmeet

January 17, 2003

I apologize to group members for wasting bandwidth again.

Thats what you got from the message.

A careful study of these dictionaries could conclude that these

translations meant to thrash hindu traditions. Even a new Samskritha

dictionary "Vaachaspathyam", with careful distortions of many Vedic

words, was compiled to trash "Amara Kosha", debase Vedas and

smrithigranthas, and uproot Hinduism. Apte is continuing this holy

job now.

It is another sorry story, which is not required to this forum, as

per Siva.

Rgds,

VR

January 17, 2003

Namasshivaaya!

Dear Shri Venkateswara Reddy,

Thanks for posting this. I am sure lot of us in this group would

like to (or already) learn(ing) sanskrit. Some of us may also buy a

dictionary, and this will help identify which ones are not to be

bought!

Best Regards,

-Suresh.

vedic astrology, "venkateshwara_reddy

<venkateshwara_reddy>" <venkateshwara_reddy> wrote:

> A bit of info on Monier Williams:

>

> Monier Williams another important European scholar who

> was hard pressed by the Church. He wrote[1]:

>

> "When the walls of the mighty fortress of Brahmanism

> are encircled, undermined and finally stormed by the

> soldiers of cross, the victory of Christianity must be

> signal and complete."

>

> In his preface to his famous Sanskrit-English

> Dictionary, as the Professor of the prestigious Boden

> Chair at Oxford, Monier Williams reveals the objective

> of founding the Chair for Sanskrit studies by Col.

> Boden as to convert the natives of India into

> Christianity. He writes thus[2]:

>

> "I must draw attention to the fact that I am only the

> second occupant of the Boden Chair, and that its

> founder, Col. Boden, stated most explicitly in his

> will (dated Aug. 15,1811) that special object of his

> munificent bequest was to promote the translation of

> the scriptures into Sanskrit; so as to enable his

> countrymen to proceed in the conversion of the natives

> of India to the Christian Religion."

>

> References:

> 1. Monier Williams, 'Modern India and Indians', p.247.

>

> 2. Monier William, Sanskrit-English Dictionary, 1899,Preface, p. ix.

>

> vedic astrology, "Nazar V. Kravtsiv"

> <Nazar_K@m...> wrote:

> >

> > The most comprehensive Sanskrit-English Dictionary available.

Over

> 180.000 entries. Nearly 1.400 printed A4 pages.

> >

> > http://nazar-k.rbcmail.ru

January 17, 2003

Dear Venkateshwara, you say:

"A careful study of these dictionaries COULD conclude that these

translations meant to thrash hindu traditions"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Your mail doesnt clarify whether this is your _imagination_ of a

possibility or whether any scholarly study been done in that regard

which arrived at that conclusion. Moreover, your initial mail never

even gave any such hint other than provide information on the

religious leanings and opinions of the author - from which one cannot

draw any conclusions unless otherwise one is _biased_.

FYI, I have seen some such works of missionaries with respect to

tamil hindu scriptures and am impressed by the neutrality and

scholarliness of their works. Infact, sometimes, contrary to what we

might think, works of outsiders is the only way to get a neutral view

of a subject since each school of thought in India has its own

biases.

I will appreciate if you can clearify what you suggest is your

imagination/opinion or you are just reporting the conclusion arrived

after a scholarly, unbiased study.

I rest my case.

-Siva.

vedic astrology, "venkateshwara_reddy

<venkateshwara_reddy>" <venkateshwara_reddy> wrote:

> I apologize to group members for wasting bandwidth again.

>

> Thats what you got from the message.

>

> A careful study of these dictionaries could conclude that these

> translations meant to thrash hindu traditions. Even a new Samskritha

> dictionary "Vaachaspathyam", with careful distortions of many Vedic

> words, was compiled to trash "Amara Kosha", debase Vedas and

> smrithigranthas, and uproot Hinduism. Apte is continuing this holy

> job now.

>

> It is another sorry story, which is not required to this forum, as

> per Siva.

>

> Rgds,

> VR

January 17, 2003

vedic astrology, "schinnas <schinnas>"

<schinnas> wrote:

> you are just reporting the conclusion arrived after a scholarly,

>unbiased study.

Yes.

For more, join Indology forums, where you see hate mongering western

scholars and their psec indian counterparts rely on a single axiom:

"Heathens are always wrong. Only 18th century european scholars(not

pandiTa-s, in my view), their comparative linguistics, and their ONLY

crude english translations(not the samskr`ta originals) are axioms in

their scholarly work"

One might have seen, How this Anti-Hindu(not neutral) sanskritist

from Harvard, Prof Witzel, wrote articles in Hindu, Frontline, about

Samudra, and his sunken philology. He can cheat english educated

hindus only. He cant cheat anybody, who is well versed in his native

language. This is the mentality inherited from these colonial writers.

Sorry for deviating from VA.

I will not respond to this thread anymore.

Rgds,

VR

January 17, 2003

vedic astrology, "Sureshbabu Chandra

<suchandr@h...>" <suchandr@h...> wrote:

Regarding whose dictionary to use:

Any dictionary by native indian scholar in your language(such as

hindi, telugu, kannada etc). Native scholars' works are far better

than germanic translations.

January 17, 2003

Dear Sri Venkateshwara Reddi ji,

I fully agree with you in this regard about your comments on Monier- williams

Samskrit- English dictionary.

Thanks and Best regards,

Ramadas Rao.

"venkateshwara_reddy <venkateshwara_reddy >"

<venkateshwara_reddy > wrote:

I apologize to group members for wasting bandwidth again.Thats what you got from

the message.A careful study of these dictionaries could conclude that these

translations meant to thrash hindu traditions. Even a new Samskrithadictionary

"Vaachaspathyam", with careful distortions of many Vedic words, was compiled to

trash "Amara Kosha", debase Vedas and smrithigranthas, and uproot Hinduism. Apte

is continuing this holy job now. It is another sorry story, which is not

required to this forum, as per Siva.Rgds,VRArchives:

vedic astrologyGroup info:

vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......

Catch all the cricket action. Download

Score tracker

January 18, 2003

Dear List Members,

regardless of the rumored intentions of the authors, the Monier

Williams dictionary is by far the best available for a Sanskrit English

dictionary. It has many meanings of the words, symbolic meanings as

well, which are very, very, important for understanding astrological

texts when it comes to numbers, and even tells about special techniques

for reading Sanskrit texts. It is also considered the best available by

those in India. The Indian publication is cheap, but falls apart, the

Oxford publication is expensive- 155.00, but is sure to hold up.

Jai Ram,

Ernst WIlhelm

Sureshbabu Chandra <suchandr

[suchandr]

Friday, January 17, 2003 2:00 PM

vedic astrology

[vedic astrology] Re: A Sanskrit-English Dictionary, Sir Monier

Monier-Williams

Namasshivaaya!

Dear Shri Venkateswara Reddy,

Thanks for posting this. I am sure lot of us in this group would

like to (or already) learn(ing) sanskrit. Some of us may also buy a

dictionary, and this will help identify which ones are not to be

bought!

Best Regards,

-Suresh.

vedic astrology, "venkateshwara_reddy

<venkateshwara_reddy>" <venkateshwara_reddy> wrote:

> A bit of info on Monier Williams:

>

> Monier Williams another important European scholar who

> was hard pressed by the Church. He wrote[1]:

>

> "When the walls of the mighty fortress of Brahmanism

> are encircled, undermined and finally stormed by the

> soldiers of cross, the victory of Christianity must be

> signal and complete."

>

> In his preface to his famous Sanskrit-English

> Dictionary, as the Professor of the prestigious Boden

> Chair at Oxford, Monier Williams reveals the objective

> of founding the Chair for Sanskrit studies by Col.

> Boden as to convert the natives of India into

> Christianity. He writes thus[2]:

>

> "I must draw attention to the fact that I am only the

> second occupant of the Boden Chair, and that its

> founder, Col. Boden, stated most explicitly in his

> will (dated Aug. 15,1811) that special object of his munificent

> bequest was to promote the translation of the scriptures into

> Sanskrit; so as to enable his countrymen to proceed in the conversion

> of the natives of India to the Christian Religion."

>

> References:

> 1. Monier Williams, 'Modern India and Indians', p.247.

>

> 2. Monier William, Sanskrit-English Dictionary, 1899,Preface, p. ix.

>

> vedic astrology, "Nazar V. Kravtsiv"

> <Nazar_K@m...> wrote:

> >

> > The most comprehensive Sanskrit-English Dictionary available.

Over

> 180.000 entries. Nearly 1.400 printed A4 pages.

> >

> > http://nazar-k.rbcmail.ru

Your use of is subject to

January 18, 2003

Dear Ernst,

Thanks for clarifying that. Its great that this dictionary is

available in electronic form. I have been looking for a good,

scholarly sanskrit-enlish dictionary and am glad to find one in

Monier Williams. I am already using it now.

Unfortunately, there is some socio-political ideology(??) in India,

adherents of which insist on seeing everything with an inherently

biased view - a antithesis to learning. Biases arising out of

inferiority/superiority complex, racial and religous prejudice are

the worst enemies of learning. They indulge in slander and malign

scholarly works that stand in the way of their manufacturing of

history for narrow mined socio-political reasons. I didnt want to get

into this in this astrology list, but keeping silent in the face of

wild ridiculous claims/charges amounts to accepting the same.

It is good that a learned person like you could set things right

about the Monier Williams dictionary.

btw, did you get a copy of Swami Yukteshwar's astrology book during

your India trip?

May Lord Shiva grace all with an open mind & heart!

warm regards,

-Siva.

vedic astrology, "Ernst Wilhelm" <ernst@v...>

wrote:

> Dear List Members,

> regardless of the rumored intentions of the authors, the Monier

> Williams dictionary is by far the best available for a Sanskrit

English

> dictionary. It has many meanings of the words, symbolic meanings as

> well, which are very, very, important for understanding astrological

> texts when it comes to numbers, and even tells about special

techniques

> for reading Sanskrit texts. It is also considered the best

available by

> those in India. The Indian publication is cheap, but falls apart,

the

> Oxford publication is expensive- 155.00, but is sure to hold up.

>

> Jai Ram,

> Ernst WIlhelm

>

> Sureshbabu Chandra <suchandr@h...>

> [suchandr@h...]

> Friday, January 17, 2003 2:00 PM

> vedic astrology

> [vedic astrology] Re: A Sanskrit-English Dictionary, Sir

Monier

> Monier-Williams

>

> Namasshivaaya!

>

> Dear Shri Venkateswara Reddy,

>

> Thanks for posting this. I am sure lot of us in this group would

> like to (or already) learn(ing) sanskrit. Some of us may also buy a

> dictionary, and this will help identify which ones are not to be

> bought!

>

> Best Regards,

> -Suresh.

> vedic astrology, "venkateshwara_reddy

> <venkateshwara_reddy>" <venkateshwara_reddy> wrote:

> > A bit of info on Monier Williams:

> >

> > Monier Williams another important European scholar who

> > was hard pressed by the Church. He wrote[1]:

> >

> > "When the walls of the mighty fortress of Brahmanism

> > are encircled, undermined and finally stormed by the

> > soldiers of cross, the victory of Christianity must be

> > signal and complete."

> >

> > In his preface to his famous Sanskrit-English

> > Dictionary, as the Professor of the prestigious Boden

> > Chair at Oxford, Monier Williams reveals the objective

> > of founding the Chair for Sanskrit studies by Col.

> > Boden as to convert the natives of India into

> > Christianity. He writes thus[2]:

> >

> > "I must draw attention to the fact that I am only the

> > second occupant of the Boden Chair, and that its

> > founder, Col. Boden, stated most explicitly in his

> > will (dated Aug. 15,1811) that special object of his munificent

> > bequest was to promote the translation of the scriptures into

> > Sanskrit; so as to enable his countrymen to proceed in the

conversion

> > of the natives of India to the Christian Religion."

> >

> > References:

> > 1. Monier Williams, 'Modern India and Indians', p.247.

> >

> > 2. Monier William, Sanskrit-English Dictionary, 1899,Preface, p.

ix.

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Nazar V. Kravtsiv"

> > <Nazar_K@m...> wrote:

> > >

> > > The most comprehensive Sanskrit-English Dictionary available.

> Over

> > 180.000 entries. Nearly 1.400 printed A4 pages.

> > >

> > > http://nazar-k.rbcmail.ru

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

January 19, 2003

Om Sreem Suragurave Brihaspataye Namah

Dear Siva,

I normally don't take part in non-astrological discussions and usually don't

even allow them here (I am the list founder & a moderator). However, this is

discussion on the bias of early indologists has a bearing on the history of

astrology too and so I will let the discussion continue a little more. When

and if it gets out of hand, I'll ban it.

> Dear Ernst,

> Thanks for clarifying that. Its great that this dictionary is

> available in electronic form. I have been looking for a good,

> scholarly sanskrit-enlish dictionary and am glad to find one in

> Monier Williams. I am already using it now.

Yes, it contains meanings of a lot of words and is a useful resource. I

don't disagree.

The point Venkateshwara Reddy made is different. He cautioned us regarding

the "agenda" of the compiler of this dictionary. As the two quotes given by

Mr. Reddy (see at the end of this mail) suggest, the gentleman in question

clearly had an agenda. If one suggests that this should be kept in mind when

using the book, I see nothing wrong. How can you expect someone motivated by

a narrow agenda of ensuring Christianity's victory over Hinduism to come up

with genuine expositions of words depicting the great Hindu philosophical

concepts?

If you take words like saguna, nirguna, brahman, advaita, veda etc and

carefully study what he wrote, you can see that his exposition is very dry

and lacks the philosophical basis.

Under the definition of veda, he writes: "the oldest of its hymns being

assigned by some who rely on certain astronomical calculations to a period

between 4000 and 2500 B.C. , before the settlement of the A1ryans in India ;

and by others who adopt a different reckoning to a period between 1400 and

1000 B.C. , when the A1ryans had settled down in the Panja1b."

This sounds scholarly, but clearly his agenda runs as an undercurrent here.

First of all, there is no need to mention Aryan settlement (an unproven

theory being questioned by more and more scholars). It is irrelevant.

Secondly, though it sounds like he is mentioning various viewpoints

dispassionately, it is not true. The viewpoint held by most native Vedic

scholars was that Vedas existed for ever and were compiled in their current

form by Vyasa around 3300 BC. The point that Hindus believe these to be in

existence for many yugas is conveniently ignored.

He further states in the definition of Vedas: "although it is certain that

both Mantras and Bra1hman2as were compositions spread over a considerable

period , much of the latter being comparatively modern." Again, I can never

understand how that "cerain" part and the "modern" part came. This is

against what many Vedic scholars believed. Even today, nobody messes with

the Vedas, especially the Rigveda. It is passed from one generation to

another without any modifications whatsoever. Agenda...

> Unfortunately, there is some socio-political ideology(??) in India,

> adherents of which insist on seeing everything with an inherently

> biased view - a antithesis to learning. Biases arising out of

You are wrong Siva. Though there may be some extremists among the Indian

right wing historians, several of them are much more reasonable than the

early Indologists. It is THEY - early Indologists - who were biased and

prejudiced. They came with a particular story in mind (Aryan invasion etc)

and tried to "fit" everything within that story. Some of them were religious

bigots and intended to thrash Indian history and philosophy. The quotes

given by Mr. Reddy are a sample.

> inferiority/superiority complex, racial and religous prejudice are

> the worst enemies of learning. They indulge in slander and malign

Yes, but you are describing the qualities shared by several early

Indologists. If you carefully read the quotes from Sir Monier below about

the victory and spreading of Christianity, you can judge for yourself who

has that "religious prejudice" and "superiority complex".

> scholarly works that stand in the way of their manufacturing of

> history for narrow mined socio-political reasons. I didnt want to get

These narrow-minded socio-political motivations were certainly there, behind

the works of several early Indologists.

> into this in this astrology list, but keeping silent in the face of

> wild ridiculous claims/charges amounts to accepting the same.

That is exactly why I am breaking my own rule of not talking about

non-astrological topics. Mr. Reddy is taking flak for making a valid point.

Don't get me wrong. The dictionary is good, very reasonable and useful. But

the agenda runs as an undercurrent throughout and is visible especially when

terms relating to Hinduism and Hindu philosophy are discussed.

Now, what is the relevance of all this to astrology? Well, the stories of

Greeks teaching astrology to Indians, Indians not having any astrology

before 500 BC, words like kendra coming from Greek etc are so well-accepted

today in the academic community that any claims to the contrary are looked

down upon as "ridiculous". When a group of motivated scholars work together

with an agenda and muddy the waters, it takes a lot of effort to clear the

waters. It is time Indologists and Vedic astrologers rejected the axioms of

early Indologists and looked at Indian history and the history of Jyotish

with an open mind. Scholars like David Frawley are leading the way.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

> It is good that a learned person like you could set things right

> about the Monier Williams dictionary.

>

> btw, did you get a copy of Swami Yukteshwar's astrology book during

> your India trip?

>

> May Lord Shiva grace all with an open mind & heart!

>

> warm regards,

> -Siva.

> vedic astrology, "Ernst Wilhelm" <ernst@v...>

> wrote:

> > Dear List Members,

> > regardless of the rumored intentions of the authors, the Monier

> > Williams dictionary is by far the best available for a Sanskrit

> > ...snip...

> > Jai Ram,

> > Ernst WIlhelm

> >

> > vedic astrology, "venkateshwara_reddy

> > <venkateshwara_reddy>" <venkateshwara_reddy> wrote:

> > > A bit of info on Monier Williams:

> > >

> > > Monier Williams another important European scholar who

> > > was hard pressed by the Church. He wrote[1]:

> > >

> > > "When the walls of the mighty fortress of Brahmanism

> > > are encircled, undermined and finally stormed by the

> > > soldiers of cross, the victory of Christianity must be

> > > signal and complete."

> > >

> > > In his preface to his famous Sanskrit-English

> > > Dictionary, as the Professor of the prestigious Boden

> > > Chair at Oxford, Monier Williams reveals the objective

> > > of founding the Chair for Sanskrit studies by Col.

> > > Boden as to convert the natives of India into

> > > Christianity. He writes thus[2]:

> > >

> > > "I must draw attention to the fact that I am only the

> > > second occupant of the Boden Chair, and that its

> > > founder, Col. Boden, stated most explicitly in his

> > > will (dated Aug. 15,1811) that special object of his munificent

> > > bequest was to promote the translation of the scriptures into

> > > Sanskrit; so as to enable his countrymen to proceed in the

> conversion

> > > of the natives of India to the Christian Religion."

> > >

> > > References:

> > > 1. Monier Williams, 'Modern India and Indians', p.247.

> > >

> > > 2. Monier William, Sanskrit-English Dictionary, 1899,Preface, p.

> ix.

January 19, 2003

Dear Siva,

haven't been to India as of yet, we have tentative plans on going

this Summer. Will certainly let you know if I get my hands on the book.

And yes, you will occasionally see commentators demean Hindu knowledge

at times, especially by insisting they learned something by the greeks,

but that is not a problem with the dictionary, but does creep up in

things like the Surya Siddhanta.

Jai Ram,

Ernst Wilhelm

schinnas <schinnas [schinnas]

Saturday, January 18, 2003 1:27 PM