Meaning of atmakaraka- to Swee Chan, Guru Gauranga Das, Guru Robert Koch and others

[Guest guest]

Dear Gurus,

 

Great thanks for the post on AK, and we kindly request for some more light on this .

 

 

Guru Gauranga Das

 

wrote:

1. " Naturally AK in Lagna or trines is the best. It gives good oportunity to

advance. AK in kendras is usually strong, but more of a stagnating, preserving

rather than advancing nature. AK in dusthanas is usually adverse for spiritual

development unless involved in a strong viparita rajayoga or a pravrajya yoga

from AL. " Query: What do we interpret when AK is in 2nd, 11th houses?

2. "If AK links to Lagna but not 9th house, then the native's spirituality

remains a personal interest, and he does not necessarily manifest it externally

by joining a religious organization. If it links only to the 9th but no the Lg,

then he may be actively involved in a religious organization, but his

spirituality may be somewnat superficial."

Query: AK links to lagna, should we also consider here link to Lagna lord?

 

Guru Robert Koch

wrote:

1. "Still, in my studies, I have found too that an exalted AK, and one which

engages in Raja-yoga also, are found in the charts of the most influential

spiritualists of all time."

Query Part1: AK exalted Sun, together with lagna lord Mercury and the dispositor

Mars in 9th house, Sir what should we interpret on this?

Query Part2: Also if Mahabhagya yog is formed (as i understand when sun, moon

and lagna be either in odd signs or even signs), would this be considered a

raja yoga.

 

 

2. The AK, regardless of normal weakening conditions such as debilitation,

combustion, rasi or bhava sandhi, etc., remains powerful from the spiritual

point of view. He is, after all, the Atma, who, according to the

Bhagavad-gita, does not become affected by material adversity orpleasure.

Query: Personally I agree that the soul can never be weakened from the spiritual

point of view, but this raises another doubt, is the soul always

illumined/enlightened form from the spiritual point of view, does the AK then

signify the manifestation of how the soul will behave/path in this lifetime?

(if i am getting too confused pls correct)

General Query

1. Malefic AK, does it mean that in the current lifetime natives soul is highly

developed or does it mean that the native is supposed to develop it till that

point in this lifetime.

 

Pls give some light.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Best regards,

 

Sunil John

[Guest guest]

JAYA JAGANNATHA!

 

Dear Sunil,

 

Namaste.

 

Guru Gauranga Das

 

wrote:

1. " Naturally AK in Lagna or trines is the best. It gives good oportunity to

advance. AK in kendras is usually strong, but more of a stagnating, preserving

rather than advancing nature. AK in dusthanas is usually adverse for spiritual

development unless involved in a strong viparita rajayoga or a pravrajya yoga

from AL. "

Query: What do we interpret when AK is in 2nd, 11th houses?

 

These houses are not so descriptive in this regard. The effect will depend on

the houses lorded by the AK and the combinations he takes part in. A general

principle is that the house ocuppied by the AK will be the most important area

of purification (often times entailing suffering) for the native. AK in 2nd or

11th indicates that he influences areas of income and wealth. A good chance

might arise that if the native is unable to utilise his materila ssets properly

for spiritual purposes, God will just take those things away from him.

 

2. "If AK links to Lagna but not 9th house, then the native's spirituality

remains a personal interest, and he does not necessarily manifest it externally

by joining a religious organization. If it links only to the 9th but no the Lg,

then he may be actively involved in a religious organization, but his

spirituality may be somewnat superficial."

Query: AK links to lagna, should we also consider here link to Lagna lord?

 

Yes, Lagna rasi or lord.

 

Guru Robert Koch

wrote:

1. "Still, in my studies, I have found too that an exalted AK, and one which

engages in Raja-yoga also, are found in the charts of the most influential

spiritualists of all time."

Query Part1: AK exalted Sun, together with lagna lord Mercury and the dispositor

Mars in 9th house, Sir what should we interpret on this?

Query Part2: Also if Mahabhagya yog is formed (as i understand when sun, moon

and lagna be either in odd signs or even signs), would this be considered a

raja yoga.

 

 

2. The AK, regardless of normal weakening conditions such as debilitation,

combustion, rasi or bhava sandhi, etc., remains powerful from the spiritual

point of view. He is, after all, the Atma, who, according to the

Bhagavad-gita, does not become affected by material adversity orpleasure.

Query: Personally I agree that the soul can never be weakened from the spiritual

point of view, but this raises another doubt, is the soul always

illumined/enlightened form from the spiritual point of view, does the AK then

signify the manifestation of how the soul will behave/path in this lifetime?

(if i am getting too confused pls correct)

General Query

1. Malefic AK, does it mean that in the current lifetime natives soul is highly

developed or does it mean that the native is supposed to develop it till that

point in this lifetime.

 

I would vote for the second. A strong malefic as AK would indicate more soul

force as far as I understand. A benefic may give the sendse of perfection

already achieved and the native tends to slack in his efforts for advancement

and thus gradually waste his spiritual assets. Of course this is too general,

other features should be studied additionally.

 

A few additional example charts: Emperor Aurangzeb had a retro Mercury AK

conjoining a deb. Sun in 9th from Lagna.

Sigmund Freud's AK is Rahu in the 7th from Lg conjoining an exalted Sun and

Venus. But 9th house has Saturn.

 

Yours,

 

Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer gauranga (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net Jyotish Remedies:

WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET Phone:+36-309-140-839

 

Pls give some light.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Best regards,

 

Sunil JohnArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info:

vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......

 

[Guest guest]

Om Gurave Namah

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dear Sunil,

Namaste -

You

worte

Guru

Robert Koch

wrote:

1. "Still, in my studies, I have found too that an

exalted AK, and one which engages in Raja-yoga also, are found in the

charts of the most influential spiritualists of all time."

Query Part1: AK exalted Sun, together with lagna lord Mercury and the

dispositor Mars in 9th house, Sir what should we interpret on

this?

Certainly, for Virgo lagna, such a powerful AK in the 8th house is going

to direct the soul out of adversity - mostly probably physical or health

challenges - toward his spiritual life, if the dispositor Mars goes to

the 9th house. The crux of the issue here, however, would be as to

whether or not a link exists to Venus or Saturn (trinal lords), as well

as Jupiter. The AK will not promote great spirituality, as I

mentioned in another post, if the chart is not in other ways predisposed

toward dharma to start with.

Query

Part2: Also if Mahabhagya yog is formed (as i understand when sun, moon

and lagna be either in odd signs or even signs), would this be considered

a raja yoga.

Mahabhagya yoga is certainly on par with Raja-yoga, if it applies in

full. For male nativities, birth in the day time, while lagna lord,

Sun, and Moon are in odd signs, should apply in order for the yoga to

function fully. Normally, as B.V. Raman seems to suggests, the

strength of Raja-yogas (including Maha-bhagya yoga) depends on the

strength of the lagna, its lord, as well as the Atmakaraka.

 

2. The AK, regardless of normal weakening conditions such

as debilitation, combustion, rasi or bhava sandhi, etc., remains

powerful from the spiritual point of view. He is, after all, the

Atma, who, according to the Bhagavad-gita, does not become affected by

material adversity or

pleasure.

Query:

Personally I agree that the soul can never be weakened from the spiritual

point of view, but this raises another doubt, is the soul always

illumined/enlightened form from the spiritual point of view, does the AK

then signify the manifestation of how the soul will behave/path in this

lifetime? (if i am getting too confused pls

correct)

Yes, first see the direction of the soul as per rashi and navamsa,

as well as Vimsamsa and Shastiamsa charts. If normal criteria for

determining the strengths of dharma houses exists, as well as the

strength of planets relative to the Karakamsa lagna, then the AK

joining all pertinent combinations will fuel the soul's path.

Without the above criteria obtaining, however, the AK alone will not make

the person spiritual. See my other post to Gauranga Das on these

points as well.

Best regards,

Robert

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jyotish guru, Sri Jagannath Center

http://www.robertkoch.com

Email: rk (AT) robertkoch (DOT) com

PH: 541-318-0248

[Guest guest]

Dear All.

Greetings and love.

I have been reading with delight the conversations concerning the atma

karaka and spirituality. I have no difficulty following but am concerned

because I am always unsure whether, when the writer is refering to a planet

as malefic/benefic, they mean as a natural or functional malefic/benefic.

Are there guidelines for this? Would someone kindly explain them to me or

guide me to a reference in the literature.

I am interested generally, though in my own chart Saturn, my AK is a

functional benefic and also lagna lord (Aquarius). He is in the 4th house

with Mars and Moon (Rohini) and forms a parivartana with Venus (yogakaraka)

in 12th. (I believe this parivartana is why I perceive my life as being

happy and carefree despite having Saturn in 4th. Isn't it also true that

Venus protects the house 5th away from him? - I can't remember where I read

or heard this).

This basic issue makes me worried that I am misinterpreting some of your

wisdom so I would be most grateful if someone would put me out of my misery

and explain it to me.

Love,

Gili

 

>"Robert A. Koch" <rk

>vedic astrology

>vedic astrology

>Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Meaning of atmakaraka- to Swee Chan,

>Guru Gauranga Das, Guru Robert Koch and others

>Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:46:14 -0800

>

>Om Gurave Namah

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

>Dear Sunil,

>

>Namaste -

>

>>You worte

>

>>Guru Robert Koch

>>

>>wrote:

>>

>>1. "Still, in my studies, I have found too that an exalted AK, and one

>>which engages in Raja-yoga also, are found in the charts of the most

>>influential spiritualists of all time."

>>

>>Query Part1: AK exalted Sun, together with lagna lord Mercury and the

>>dispositor Mars in 9th house, Sir what should we interpret on this?

>

>Certainly, for Virgo lagna, such a powerful AK in the 8th house is going to

>direct the soul out of adversity - mostly probably physical or health

>challenges - toward his spiritual life, if the dispositor Mars goes to the

>9th house. The crux of the issue here, however, would be as to whether or

>not a link exists to Venus or Saturn (trinal lords), as well as Jupiter.

>The AK will not promote great spirituality, as I mentioned in another post,

>if the chart is not in other ways predisposed toward dharma to start with.

>

>>Query Part2: Also if Mahabhagya yog is formed (as i understand when sun,

>>moon and lagna be either in odd signs or even signs), would this be

>>considered a raja yoga.

>

>Mahabhagya yoga is certainly on par with Raja-yoga, if it applies in full.

>For male nativities, birth in the day time, while lagna lord, Sun, and Moon

>are in odd signs, should apply in order for the yoga to function fully.

>Normally, as B.V. Raman seems to suggests, the strength of Raja-yogas

>(including Maha-bhagya yoga) depends on the strength of the lagna, its

>lord, as well as the Atmakaraka.

>

>2. The AK, regardless of normal weakening conditions such as debilitation,

>combustion, rasi or bhava sandhi, etc., remains powerful from the spiritual

>point of view. He is, after all, the Atma, who, according to the

>Bhagavad-gita, does not become affected by material adversity or

>>pleasure.

>

>

>>Query: Personally I agree that the soul can never be weakened from the

>>spiritual point of view, but this raises another doubt, is the soul always

>>illumined/enlightened form from the spiritual point of view, does the AK

>>then signify the manifestation of how the soul will behave/path in this

>>lifetime? (if i am getting too confused pls correct)

>

>Yes, first see the direction of the soul as per rashi and navamsa, as well

>as Vimsamsa and Shastiamsa charts. If normal criteria for determining the

>strengths of dharma houses exists, as well as the strength of planets

>relative to the Karakamsa lagna, then the AK joining all pertinent

>combinations will fuel the soul's path. Without the above criteria

>obtaining, however, the AK alone will not make the person spiritual. See

>my other post to Gauranga Das on these points as well.

>

>Best regards,

>Robert

>

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>Jyotish guru, Sri Jagannath Center

>http://www.robertkoch.com

>Email: rk

>PH: 541-318-0248

 

 

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[Guest guest]

font-family:Verdana">Dear Gili,

font-family:Verdana">

font-family:Verdana">The ascendant lord will always protect. There are 2 types of

malefics. The natural and functional. The functional ones are dependent on

one’s ascendant. These are the lords of dusthana houses, 6,8,12 and mild

mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">dusthana

10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Verdana">(trik) are 3rd

and 11th

font-family:Verdana">The parivatana in your case

mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">are not in their MT, but

10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Verdana">indicates

mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">either

12.0pt;font-family:Verdana">a permanent shift from your place of birth or

mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">un-diagnosed

10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Verdana">health issues affecting

the

font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">kidney meridian

10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Verdana">during Sa

mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">/Mo and a redressal during Sa/Ma periods. The kidney

meridian will affect regions of the heart, sexual organs, etc.

font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">Only Jupiter has full sight of the

5th and 9th , while Rahu has backward aspect on the 5th

and 9th . For conjugal happiness, one must look at 7th

from Venus.

font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">

font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">Best wishes,

font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">Swee

font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">

-----Original

Message-----

Gili Alvey

[gilimary (AT) hotmail (DOT) com]

Wednesday, January 15, 2003

3:12 AM

To:

vedic astrology

Re: [vedic astrology] Re:

Meaning of atmakaraka- to Swee Chan, Guru Gauranga Das, Guru Robert Koch and

others

windowtext">

 

mso-bidi-font-family:"Courier New";color:black">

Dear All.

Greetings and love.

I have been reading with delight the conversations concerning the atma

karaka and spirituality. I have no difficulty following but am

concerned

because I am always unsure whether, when the writer is refering to a planet

as malefic/benefic, they mean as a natural or functional

malefic/benefic.

Are there guidelines for this? Would someone kindly explain them to

me or

guide me to a reference in the literature.

I am interested generally, though in my own chart Saturn, my AK is a

functional benefic and also lagna lord (Aquarius). He is in the 4th

house

with Mars and Moon (Rohini) and forms a parivartana with Venus (yogakaraka)

in 12th. (I believe this parivartana is why I perceive my life as being

happy and carefree despite having Saturn in 4th. Isn't it also true

that

Venus protects the house 5th away from him? - I can't remember where I read

or heard this).

This basic issue makes me worried that I am misinterpreting some of your

wisdom so I would be most grateful if someone would put me out of my misery

and explain it to me.

Love,

Gili

>"Robert A. Koch" <rk (AT) robertkoch (DOT) com>

>vedic astrology

>vedic astrology

>Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Meaning of atmakaraka- to Swee

Chan,

>Guru Gauranga Das, Guru Robert Koch and others

>Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:46:14 -0800

>

>Om Gurave Namah

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

>Dear Sunil,

>

>Namaste -

>

>>You worte

>

>>Guru Robert Koch

>>

>>wrote:

>>

>>1. "Still, in my studies, I have found too that an exalted AK,

and one

>>which engages in Raja-yoga also, are found in the charts of the

most

>>influential spiritualists of all time."

>>

>>Query Part1: AK exalted Sun, together with lagna lord Mercury and

the

>>dispositor Mars in 9th house, Sir what should we interpret on this?

>

>Certainly, for Virgo lagna, such a powerful AK in the 8th house is

going to

>direct the soul out of adversity - mostly probably physical or health

>challenges - toward his spiritual life, if the dispositor Mars goes to

the

>9th house. The crux of the issue here, however, would be as to

whether or

>not a link exists to Venus or Saturn (trinal lords), as well as

Jupiter.

>The AK will not promote great spirituality, as I mentioned in another

post,

>if the chart is not in other ways predisposed toward dharma to start

with.

>

>>Query Part2: Also if Mahabhagya yog is formed (as i understand when

sun,

>>moon and lagna be either in odd signs or even signs), would this be

>>considered a raja yoga.

>

>Mahabhagya yoga is certainly on par with Raja-yoga, if it applies in

full.

>For male nativities, birth in the day time, while lagna lord, Sun, and

Moon

>are in odd signs, should apply in order for the yoga to function

fully.

>Normally, as B.V. Raman seems to suggests, the strength of Raja-yogas

>(including Maha-bhagya yoga) depends on the strength of the lagna, its

>lord, as well as the Atmakaraka.

>

>2. The AK, regardless of normal weakening conditions such as

debilitation,

>combustion, rasi or bhava sandhi, etc., remains powerful from the

spiritual

>point of view. He is, after all, the Atma, who, according to the

>Bhagavad-gita, does not become affected by material adversity or

>>pleasure.

>

>

>>Query: Personally I agree that the soul can never be weakened from

the

>>spiritual point of view, but this raises another doubt, is the soul

always

>>illumined/enlightened form from the spiritual point of view, does

the AK

>>then signify the manifestation of how the soul will behave/path in

this

>>lifetime? (if i am getting too confused pls correct)

>

>Yes, first see the direction of the soul as per rashi and navamsa, as

well

>as Vimsamsa and Shastiamsa charts. If normal criteria for

determining the

>strengths of dharma houses exists, as well as the strength of planets

>relative to the Karakamsa lagna, then the AK joining all pertinent

>combinations will fuel the soul's path. Without the above

criteria

>obtaining, however, the AK alone will not make the person

spiritual. See

>my other post to Gauranga Das on these points as well.

>

>Best regards,

>Robert

>

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>Jyotish guru, Sri Jagannath Center

>http://www.robertkoch.com

>Email: rk (AT) robertkoch (DOT) com

>PH: 541-318-0248

_______________

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mso-color-alt:windowtext">

[Guest guest]

Dear Guru Robert Koch,

 

Thanks for your enlightening post.

 

Best regards,

 

Sunil John

[Guest guest]

Hare Rama Krishna

Dear Gili,

Parasara never used the Term "Functional Malefic". Hence neither will the Gurus,

unless it is very specific.

 

Actually i have always tried to get rid of this term, as it is too general a

term, to be used when we talk of lordships.

 

Best wishesVisti---Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgBrihat

Parasara Hora Shastra:

vedic astrologybphs.zipiTRANS 99 Font:

http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/Itranslt.html

-

Gili Alvey

vedic astrology

Wednesday, January 15, 2003 2:12 AM

Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Meaning of atmakaraka- to Swee Chan, Guru

Gauranga Das, Guru Robert Koch and others

Dear All.Greetings and love.I have been reading with delight the conversations

concerning the atma karaka and spirituality. I have no difficulty following

but am concerned because I am always unsure whether, when the writer is

refering to a planet as malefic/benefic, they mean as a natural or functional

malefic/benefic. Are there guidelines for this? Would someone kindly explain

them to me or guide me to a reference in the literature.I am interested

generally, though in my own chart Saturn, my AK is a functional benefic and

also lagna lord (Aquarius). He is in the 4th house with Mars and Moon (Rohini)

and forms a parivartana with Venus (yogakaraka) in 12th. (I believe this

parivartana is why I perceive my life as being happy and carefree despite

having Saturn in 4th. Isn't it also true that Venus protects the house 5th

away from him? - I can't remember where I read or heard this).This basic issue

makes me worried that I am misinterpreting some of your wisdom so I would be

most grateful if someone would put me out of my misery and explain it to

me.Love,Gili>"Robert A. Koch" <rk (AT) robertkoch (DOT) com>>

vedic astrology>vedic astrology>Subject:

Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Meaning of atmakaraka- to Swee Chan, >Guru Gauranga

Das, Guru Robert Koch and others>Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:46:14 -0800>>Om

Gurave Namah>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>Dear Sunil,>>Namaste ->>>You worte>>>Guru Robert

Koch>>>>wrote:>>>>1. "Still, in my studies, I have found too that an exalted

AK, and one >>which engages in Raja-yoga also, are found in the charts of the

most >>influential spiritualists of all time.">>>>Query Part1: AK exalted Sun,

together with lagna lord Mercury and the >>dispositor Mars in 9th house, Sir

what should we interpret on this?>>Certainly, for Virgo lagna, such a powerful

AK in the 8th house is going to >direct the soul out of adversity - mostly

probably physical or health >challenges - toward his spiritual life, if the

dispositor Mars goes to the >9th house. The crux of the issue here, however,

would be as to whether or >not a link exists to Venus or Saturn (trinal lords),

as well as Jupiter. >The AK will not promote great spirituality, as I mentioned

in another post, >if the chart is not in other ways predisposed toward dharma to

start with.>>>Query Part2: Also if Mahabhagya yog is formed (as i understand

when sun, >>moon and lagna be either in odd signs or even signs), would this be

>>considered a raja yoga.>>Mahabhagya yoga is certainly on par with Raja-yoga,

if it applies in full. >For male nativities, birth in the day time, while

lagna lord, Sun, and Moon >are in odd signs, should apply in order for the yoga

to function fully. >Normally, as B.V. Raman seems to suggests, the strength of

Raja-yogas >(including Maha-bhagya yoga) depends on the strength of the lagna,

its >lord, as well as the Atmakaraka.>>2. The AK, regardless of normal

weakening conditions such as debilitation, >combustion, rasi or bhava sandhi,

etc., remains powerful from the spiritual >point of view. He is, after all,

the Atma, who, according to the >Bhagavad-gita, does not become affected by

material adversity or>>pleasure.>>>>Query: Personally I agree that the soul can

never be weakened from the >>spiritual point of view, but this raises another

doubt, is the soul always >>illumined/enlightened form from the spiritual point

of view, does the AK >>then signify the manifestation of how the soul will

behave/path in this >>lifetime? (if i am getting too confused pls

correct)>>Yes, first see the direction of the soul as per rashi and navamsa, as

well >as Vimsamsa and Shastiamsa charts. If normal criteria for determining the

>strengths of dharma houses exists, as well as the strength of planets >relative

to the Karakamsa lagna, then the AK joining all pertinent >combinations will

fuel the soul's path. Without the above criteria >obtaining, however, the AK

alone will not make the person spiritual. See >my other post to Gauranga Das

on these points as well.>>Best regards,>Robert>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>Jyotish guru,

Sri Jagannath Center>http://www.robertkoch.com>Email: rk (AT) robertkoch (DOT) com>PH:

541-318-0248_______________STOP

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shine on us .......

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Swee,

Thank you so much for your reply.

I would like to confirm that I did move permanently from UK to USA in 1982

(due to my husband's job with the World Bank).

I did have an undiagnosed illness, ovarian cancer, with no symptoms, but I

went for tests after having a dream, in October, 1997 in which I was told I

had the disease and the disease was confirmed. The disease has been

challenging but has brought much love to me, has made me realise how

precious life is and has made me a better person, so it is not all bad.

My marriage has been mostly pleasant and is is especially so now. My

husband is very generous with his earnings both to me and to our daughter.

I do understand the concept of the functional nature due to ascendant. My

question was when do I use one and when the other. For example for my

Aquarius Lagna is Saturn a benefic and Jupiter malefic for all

considerations:-

occupying planet

house lord

house karaka

transitting?

Love,

Gili

 

 

 

you can't transcend what you haven't experienced

 

 

 

 

 

>"Swee Chan" <swee

>vedic astrology

><vedic astrology>

>RE: [vedic astrology] Re: Meaning of atmakaraka- to Swee Chan,

>Guru Gauranga Das, Guru Robert Koch and others

>Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:15:39 +0200

>

>Dear Gili,

>

>The ascendant lord will always protect. There are 2 types of malefics. The

>natural and functional. The functional ones are dependent on one's

>ascendant. These are the lords of dusthana houses, 6,8,12 and mild dusthana

>(trik) are 3rd and 11th

>The parivatana in your case are not in their MT, but indicates either a

>permanent shift from your place of birth or un-diagnosed health issues

>affecting the kidney meridian during Sa/Mo and a redressal during Sa/Ma

>periods. The kidney meridian will affect regions of the heart, sexual

>organs, etc.

>Only Jupiter has full sight of the 5th and 9th , while Rahu has backward

>aspect on the 5th and 9th . For conjugal happiness, one must look at 7th

>from Venus.

>

>Best wishes,

>Swee

>

>

>Gili Alvey [gilimary]

>Wednesday, January 15, 2003 3:12 AM

>vedic astrology

>Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Meaning of atmakaraka- to Swee Chan,

>Guru

>Gauranga Das, Guru Robert Koch and others

>

>

>

>

>

>Dear All.

>Greetings and love.

>I have been reading with delight the conversations concerning the atma

>karaka and spirituality. I have no difficulty following but am concerned

>because I am always unsure whether, when the writer is refering to a planet

>as malefic/benefic, they mean as a natural or functional malefic/benefic.

>Are there guidelines for this? Would someone kindly explain them to me or

>guide me to a reference in the literature.

>I am interested generally, though in my own chart Saturn, my AK is a

>functional benefic and also lagna lord (Aquarius). He is in the 4th house

>with Mars and Moon (Rohini) and forms a parivartana with Venus (yogakaraka)

>in 12th. (I believe this parivartana is why I perceive my life as being

>happy and carefree despite having Saturn in 4th. Isn't it also true that

>Venus protects the house 5th away from him? - I can't remember where I read

>or heard this).

>This basic issue makes me worried that I am misinterpreting some of your

>wisdom so I would be most grateful if someone would put me out of my misery

>and explain it to me.

>Love,

>Gili

>

> >"Robert A. Koch" <rk

> >vedic astrology

> >vedic astrology

> >Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Meaning of atmakaraka- to Swee Chan,

> >Guru Gauranga Das, Guru Robert Koch and others

> >Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:46:14 -0800

> >

> >Om Gurave Namah

> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> >

> >Dear Sunil,

> >

> >Namaste -

> >

> >>You worte

> >

> >>Guru Robert Koch

> >>

> >>wrote:

> >>

> >>1. "Still, in my studies, I have found too that an exalted AK, and one

> >>which engages in Raja-yoga also, are found in the charts of the most

> >>influential spiritualists of all time."

> >>

> >>Query Part1: AK exalted Sun, together with lagna lord Mercury and the

> >>dispositor Mars in 9th house, Sir what should we interpret on this?

> >

> >Certainly, for Virgo lagna, such a powerful AK in the 8th house is going

>to

> >direct the soul out of adversity - mostly probably physical or health

> >challenges - toward his spiritual life, if the dispositor Mars goes to

>the

> >9th house. The crux of the issue here, however, would be as to whether

>or

> >not a link exists to Venus or Saturn (trinal lords), as well as Jupiter.

> >The AK will not promote great spirituality, as I mentioned in another

>post,

> >if the chart is not in other ways predisposed toward dharma to start

>with.

> >

> >>Query Part2: Also if Mahabhagya yog is formed (as i understand when sun,

> >>moon and lagna be either in odd signs or even signs), would this be

> >>considered a raja yoga.

> >

> >Mahabhagya yoga is certainly on par with Raja-yoga, if it applies in

>full.

> >For male nativities, birth in the day time, while lagna lord, Sun, and

>Moon

> >are in odd signs, should apply in order for the yoga to function fully.

> >Normally, as B.V. Raman seems to suggests, the strength of Raja-yogas

> >(including Maha-bhagya yoga) depends on the strength of the lagna, its

> >lord, as well as the Atmakaraka.

> >

> >2. The AK, regardless of normal weakening conditions such as

>debilitation,

> >combustion, rasi or bhava sandhi, etc., remains powerful from the

>spiritual

> >point of view. He is, after all, the Atma, who, according to the

> >Bhagavad-gita, does not become affected by material adversity or

> >>pleasure.

> >

> >

> >>Query: Personally I agree that the soul can never be weakened from the

> >>spiritual point of view, but this raises another doubt, is the soul

>always

> >>illumined/enlightened form from the spiritual point of view, does the AK

> >>then signify the manifestation of how the soul will behave/path in this

> >>lifetime? (if i am getting too confused pls correct)

> >

> >Yes, first see the direction of the soul as per rashi and navamsa, as

>well

> >as Vimsamsa and Shastiamsa charts. If normal criteria for determining

>the

> >strengths of dharma houses exists, as well as the strength of planets

> >relative to the Karakamsa lagna, then the AK joining all pertinent

> >combinations will fuel the soul's path. Without the above criteria

> >obtaining, however, the AK alone will not make the person spiritual. See

> >my other post to Gauranga Das on these points as well.

> >

> >Best regards,

> >Robert

> >

> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> >Jyotish guru, Sri Jagannath Center

> > http://www.robertkoch.com

> >Email: rk

> >PH: 541-318-0248

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Dear Gili,

Usually when a planet is reffered to as Benefic or malefic it would mean natural

Benefic or malefic. However how the planet will affect you would depend on his

being functional benefic/malefic depending on his house ownership. Both things

have to be taken into consideration while arriving at a fairly accurate

prediction.

Chandrashekhar.

-

Gili Alvey

vedic astrology

Wednesday, January 15, 2003 6:42 AM

Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Meaning of atmakaraka- to Swee Chan, Guru

Gauranga Das, Guru Robert Koch and others

Dear All.Greetings and love.I have been reading with delight the conversations

concerning the atma karaka and spirituality. I have no difficulty following

but am concerned because I am always unsure whether, when the writer is

refering to a planet as malefic/benefic, they mean as a natural or functional

malefic/benefic. Are there guidelines for this? Would someone kindly explain

them to me or guide me to a reference in the literature.I am interested

generally, though in my own chart Saturn, my AK is a functional benefic and

also lagna lord (Aquarius). He is in the 4th house with Mars and Moon (Rohini)

and forms a parivartana with Venus (yogakaraka) in 12th. (I believe this

parivartana is why I perceive my life as being happy and carefree despite

having Saturn in 4th. Isn't it also true that Venus protects the house 5th

away from him? - I can't remember where I read or heard this).This basic issue

makes me worried that I am misinterpreting some of your wisdom so I would be

most grateful if someone would put me out of my misery and explain it to

me.Love,Gili>"Robert A. Koch" <rk (AT) robertkoch (DOT) com>>

vedic astrology>vedic astrology>Subject:

Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Meaning of atmakaraka- to Swee Chan, >Guru Gauranga

Das, Guru Robert Koch and others>Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:46:14 -0800>>Om

Gurave Namah>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>Dear Sunil,>>Namaste ->>>You worte>>>Guru Robert

Koch>>>>wrote:>>>>1. "Still, in my studies, I have found too that an exalted

AK, and one >>which engages in Raja-yoga also, are found in the charts of the

most >>influential spiritualists of all time.">>>>Query Part1: AK exalted Sun,

together with lagna lord Mercury and the >>dispositor Mars in 9th house, Sir

what should we interpret on this?>>Certainly, for Virgo lagna, such a powerful

AK in the 8th house is going to >direct the soul out of adversity - mostly

probably physical or health >challenges - toward his spiritual life, if the

dispositor Mars goes to the >9th house. The crux of the issue here, however,

would be as to whether or >not a link exists to Venus or Saturn (trinal lords),

as well as Jupiter. >The AK will not promote great spirituality, as I mentioned

in another post, >if the chart is not in other ways predisposed toward dharma to

start with.>>>Query Part2: Also if Mahabhagya yog is formed (as i understand

when sun, >>moon and lagna be either in odd signs or even signs), would this be

>>considered a raja yoga.>>Mahabhagya yoga is certainly on par with Raja-yoga,

if it applies in full. >For male nativities, birth in the day time, while

lagna lord, Sun, and Moon >are in odd signs, should apply in order for the yoga

to function fully. >Normally, as B.V. Raman seems to suggests, the strength of

Raja-yogas >(including Maha-bhagya yoga) depends on the strength of the lagna,

its >lord, as well as the Atmakaraka.>>2. The AK, regardless of normal

weakening conditions such as debilitation, >combustion, rasi or bhava sandhi,

etc., remains powerful from the spiritual >point of view. He is, after all,

the Atma, who, according to the >Bhagavad-gita, does not become affected by

material adversity or>>pleasure.>>>>Query: Personally I agree that the soul can

never be weakened from the >>spiritual point of view, but this raises another

doubt, is the soul always >>illumined/enlightened form from the spiritual point

of view, does the AK >>then signify the manifestation of how the soul will

behave/path in this >>lifetime? (if i am getting too confused pls

correct)>>Yes, first see the direction of the soul as per rashi and navamsa, as

well >as Vimsamsa and Shastiamsa charts. If normal criteria for determining the

>strengths of dharma houses exists, as well as the strength of planets >relative

to the Karakamsa lagna, then the AK joining all pertinent >combinations will

fuel the soul's path. Without the above criteria >obtaining, however, the AK

alone will not make the person spiritual. See >my other post to Gauranga Das

on these points as well.>>Best regards,>Robert>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>Jyotish guru,

Sri Jagannath Center>http://www.robertkoch.com>Email: rk (AT) robertkoch (DOT) com>PH:

541-318-0248_______________STOP

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[Guest guest]

font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:FR-LU">Jaya Jagannatha

font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:FR-LU">

font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:FR-LU">Dear Visti,

font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:FR-LU">

font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">As English is my third tongue, I

beg for your patience in my understanding and expressions:

font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">

font-family:Verdana">Why would Lords of dusthana

mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">s

12.0pt;font-family:Verdana"> act negatively

mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">during their periods regardless of

11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Verdana">whether they are natural

benefics or not?

12.0pt;font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">That is because it is their

(official) functional job to do so.

One may call it a functional malefic ( shorter version) or the lord of that

house will act malefically ( a mouth full).

font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">

font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">Hmmm, I think that has the same

meaning.

font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">

font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">

font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">Best regards,

font-family:Verdana;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">

12.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail Signature"

12.0pt;color:blue;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">Swee

color:blue;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">

mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">swee (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net

12.0pt;color:blue;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">

mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">

12.0pt;color:blue;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">

mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">http://www.brihaspati.net/

12.0pt;color:blue;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">

12.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>

10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Verdana">

color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">

-----Original

Message-----

Visti Larsen

[vishnu (AT) lbq (DOT) dk]

Wednesday, January 15, 2003

5:30 PM

To:

vedic astrology

Re: [vedic astrology] Re:

Meaning of atmakaraka- to Swee Chan, Guru Gauranga Das, Guru Robert Koch and

others

windowtext">

 

"Courier New";color:red">Hare Rama Krishna

color:black">

color:black">Dear Gili,

mso-color-alt:windowtext">

color:black">Parasara never used the Term "Functional Malefic". Hence

neither will the Gurus, unless it is very specific.

 

color:black">Actually i have always tried to get rid of this term, as it

is too general a term, to be used when we talk of lordships.

 

Best

wishes

Visti

---

Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org

Brihat Parasara Hora Shastra: vedic astrologybphs.zip

iTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/Itranslt.html

margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;

padding:0mm;mso-padding-alt:0mm 0mm 0mm 4.0pt">-----

Original Message -----

padding:0mm;mso-padding-alt:0mm 0mm 0mm 4.0pt">

font-weight:bold">

Gili Alvey

padding:0mm;mso-padding-alt:0mm 0mm 0mm 4.0pt">

color:blue;mso-color-alt:windowtext">

margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;

padding:0mm;mso-padding-alt:0mm 0mm 0mm 4.0pt">

font-weight:bold">vedic astrology

color:blue;mso-color-alt:windowtext">

margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;

padding:0mm;mso-padding-alt:0mm 0mm 0mm 4.0pt">

font-weight:bold">Wednesday, January 15,

2003 2:12 AM

margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;

padding:0mm;mso-padding-alt:0mm 0mm 0mm 4.0pt">

font-weight:bold">Re:

[vedic astrology] Re: Meaning of atmakaraka- to Swee Chan, Guru Gauranga Das,

Guru Robert Koch and others

margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;

padding:0mm;mso-padding-alt:0mm 0mm 0mm 4.0pt">

margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;

padding:0mm;mso-padding-alt:0mm 0mm 0mm 4.0pt">

mso-bidi-font-family:"Courier New";color:black">

Dear All.

Greetings and love.

I have been reading with delight the conversations concerning the atma

karaka and spirituality. I have no difficulty following but am

concerned

because I am always unsure whether, when the writer is refering to a planet

as malefic/benefic, they mean as a natural or functional

malefic/benefic.

Are there guidelines for this? Would someone kindly explain them to

me or

guide me to a reference in the literature.

I am interested generally, though in my own chart Saturn, my AK is a

functional benefic and also lagna lord (Aquarius). He is in the 4th

house

with Mars and Moon (Rohini) and forms a parivartana with Venus (yogakaraka)

in 12th. (I believe this parivartana is why I perceive my life as being

happy and carefree despite having Saturn in 4th. Isn't it also true

that

Venus protects the house 5th away from him? - I can't remember where I read

or heard this).

This basic issue makes me worried that I am misinterpreting some of your

wisdom so I would be most grateful if someone would put me out of my misery

and explain it to me.

Love,

Gili

>"Robert A. Koch" <rk (AT) robertkoch (DOT) com>

>vedic astrology

>vedic astrology

>Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Meaning of atmakaraka- to Swee

Chan,

>Guru Gauranga Das, Guru Robert Koch and others

>Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:46:14 -0800

>

>Om Gurave Namah

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

>Dear Sunil,

>

>Namaste -

>

>>You worte

>

>>Guru Robert Koch

>>

>>wrote:

>>

>>1. "Still, in my studies, I have found too that an exalted AK,

and one

>>which engages in Raja-yoga also, are found in the charts of the

most

>>influential spiritualists of all time."

>>

>>Query Part1: AK exalted Sun, together with lagna lord Mercury and

the

>>dispositor Mars in 9th house, Sir what should we interpret on this?

>

>Certainly, for Virgo lagna, such a powerful AK in the 8th house is

going to

>direct the soul out of adversity - mostly probably physical or health

>challenges - toward his spiritual life, if the dispositor Mars goes to

the

>9th house. The crux of the issue here, however, would be as to

whether or

>not a link exists to Venus or Saturn (trinal lords), as well as

Jupiter.

>The AK will not promote great spirituality, as I mentioned in another

post,

>if the chart is not in other ways predisposed toward dharma to start

with.

>

>>Query Part2: Also if Mahabhagya yog is formed (as i understand when

sun,

>>moon and lagna be either in odd signs or even signs), would this be

>>considered a raja yoga.

>

>Mahabhagya yoga is certainly on par with Raja-yoga, if it applies in

full.

>For male nativities, birth in the day time, while lagna lord, Sun, and

Moon

>are in odd signs, should apply in order for the yoga to function

fully.

>Normally, as B.V. Raman seems to suggests, the strength of Raja-yogas

>(including Maha-bhagya yoga) depends on the strength of the lagna, its

>lord, as well as the Atmakaraka.

>

>2. The AK, regardless of normal weakening conditions such as

debilitation,

>combustion, rasi or bhava sandhi, etc., remains powerful from the

spiritual

>point of view. He is, after all, the Atma, who, according to the

>Bhagavad-gita, does not become affected by material adversity or

>>pleasure.

>

>

>>Query: Personally I agree that the soul can never be weakened from

the

>>spiritual point of view, but this raises another doubt, is the soul

always

>>illumined/enlightened form from the spiritual point of view, does

the AK

>>then signify the manifestation of how the soul will behave/path in

this

>>lifetime? (if i am getting too confused pls correct)

>

>Yes, first see the direction of the soul as per rashi and navamsa, as

well

>as Vimsamsa and Shastiamsa charts. If normal criteria for

determining the

>strengths of dharma houses exists, as well as the strength of planets

>relative to the Karakamsa lagna, then the AK joining all pertinent

>combinations will fuel the soul's path. Without the above

criteria

>obtaining, however, the AK alone will not make the person

spiritual. See

>my other post to Gauranga Das on these points as well.

>

>Best regards,

>Robert

>

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>Jyotish guru, Sri Jagannath Center

>http://www.robertkoch.com

>Email: rk (AT) robertkoch (DOT) com

>PH: 541-318-0248

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mso-color-alt:windowtext">

[Guest guest]

Hare Rama Krishna

Dear Swee,

My approach is abit different. First i figure out which activities are brought

by the graha , through its lordship, then i figure out the nature of these

activities (natural).

 

I'll leave the self-learned pundits to say "this Dasa is good and this dasa is bad".

 

Best wishesVisti---Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgBrihat

Parasara Hora Shastra:

vedic astrologybphs.zipiTRANS 99 Font:

http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/Itranslt.html

-

Swee Chan

vedic astrology

Wednesday, January 15, 2003 7:34 PM

RE: [vedic astrology] Re: Meaning of atmakaraka- to Swee Chan, Guru

Gauranga Das, Guru Robert Koch and others

Jaya Jagannatha

 

Dear Visti,

 

As English is my third tongue, I beg for your patience in my understanding and expressions:

 

Why would Lords of dusthanas act negatively during their periods regardless of

whether they are natural benefics or not? That is because it is their

(official) functional job to do so. One may call it a functional malefic (

shorter version) or the lord of that house will act malefically ( a mouth

full).

 

Hmmm, I think that has the same meaning.

 

 

Best regards,

 

12.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail Signature" Swee

swee (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net

 

http://www.brihaspati.net/

12.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>

 

Visti Larsen [vishnu (AT) lbq (DOT) dk]Sent:

Wednesday, January 15, 2003 5:30 PMvedic astrologySubject:

Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Meaning of atmakaraka- to Swee Chan, Guru Gauranga

Das, Guru Robert Koch and others

 

Hare Rama Krishna

Dear Gili,

Parasara never used the Term "Functional Malefic". Hence neither will the Gurus,

unless it is very specific.

 

Actually i have always tried to get rid of this term, as it is too general a

term, to be used when we talk of lordships.

 

Best wishesVisti---Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgBrihat

Parasara Hora Shastra:

vedic astrologybphs.zipiTRANS 99 Font:

http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/Itranslt.html

-

Gili Alvey

 

vedic astrology

Wednesday, January 15, 2003 2:12 AM

Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Meaning of atmakaraka- to Swee Chan, Guru

Gauranga Das, Guru Robert Koch and others

 

Dear All.Greetings and love.I have been reading with delight the conversations

concerning the atma karaka and spirituality. I have no difficulty following

but am concerned because I am always unsure whether, when the writer is

refering to a planet as malefic/benefic, they mean as a natural or functional

malefic/benefic. Are there guidelines for this? Would someone kindly explain

them to me or guide me to a reference in the literature.I am interested

generally, though in my own chart Saturn, my AK is a functional benefic and

also lagna lord (Aquarius). He is in the 4th house with Mars and Moon (Rohini)

and forms a parivartana with Venus (yogakaraka) in 12th. (I believe this

parivartana is why I perceive my life as being happy and carefree despite

having Saturn in 4th. Isn't it also true that Venus protects the house 5th

away from him? - I can't remember where I read or heard this).This basic issue

makes me worried that I am misinterpreting some of your wisdom so I would be

most grateful if someone would put me out of my misery and explain it to

me.Love,Gili>"Robert A. Koch" <rk (AT) robertkoch (DOT) com>>

vedic astrology>vedic astrology>Subject:

Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Meaning of atmakaraka- to Swee Chan, >Guru Gauranga

Das, Guru Robert Koch and others>Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:46:14 -0800>>Om

Gurave Namah>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>Dear Sunil,>>Namaste ->>>You worte>>>Guru Robert

Koch>>>>wrote:>>>>1. "Still, in my studies, I have found too that an exalted

AK, and one >>which engages in Raja-yoga also, are found in the charts of the

most >>influential spiritualists of all time.">>>>Query Part1: AK exalted Sun,

together with lagna lord Mercury and the >>dispositor Mars in 9th house, Sir

what should we interpret on this?>>Certainly, for Virgo lagna, such a powerful

AK in the 8th house is going to >direct the soul out of adversity - mostly

probably physical or health >challenges - toward his spiritual life, if the

dispositor Mars goes to the >9th house. The crux of the issue here, however,

would be as to whether or >not a link exists to Venus or Saturn (trinal lords),

as well as Jupiter. >The AK will not promote great spirituality, as I mentioned

in another post, >if the chart is not in other ways predisposed toward dharma to

start with.>>>Query Part2: Also if Mahabhagya yog is formed (as i understand

when sun, >>moon and lagna be either in odd signs or even signs), would this be

>>considered a raja yoga.>>Mahabhagya yoga is certainly on par with Raja-yoga,

if it applies in full. >For male nativities, birth in the day time, while

lagna lord, Sun, and Moon >are in odd signs, should apply in order for the yoga

to function fully. >Normally, as B.V. Raman seems to suggests, the strength of

Raja-yogas >(including Maha-bhagya yoga) depends on the strength of the lagna,

its >lord, as well as the Atmakaraka.>>2. The AK, regardless of normal

weakening conditions such as debilitation, >combustion, rasi or bhava sandhi,

etc., remains powerful from the spiritual >point of view. He is, after all,

the Atma, who, according to the >Bhagavad-gita, does not become affected by

material adversity or>>pleasure.>>>>Query: Personally I agree that the soul can

never be weakened from the >>spiritual point of view, but this raises another

doubt, is the soul always >>illumined/enlightened form from the spiritual point

of view, does the AK >>then signify the manifestation of how the soul will

behave/path in this >>lifetime? (if i am getting too confused pls

correct)>>Yes, first see the direction of the soul as per rashi and navamsa, as

well >as Vimsamsa and Shastiamsa charts. If normal criteria for determining the

>strengths of dharma houses exists, as well as the strength of planets >relative

to the Karakamsa lagna, then the AK joining all pertinent >combinations will

fuel the soul's path. Without the above criteria >obtaining, however, the AK

alone will not make the person spiritual. See >my other post to Gauranga Das

on these points as well.>>Best regards,>Robert>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>Jyotish guru,

Sri Jagannath Center>http://www.robertkoch.com>Email: rk (AT) robertkoch (DOT) com>PH:

541-318-0248_______________STOP

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