M.Desai's queries, Mars dasa, inconsistencies etc

[Guest guest]

Aum Namah Shivaya

 

Dear Mr. Desai and group,

 

We just cannot compare oranges and apples! Astrology works more from

a psycho-spiritual basis and not a Newtonian-Cartesian view of the

world. Gravitation, Electromagnetism etc will not be able to explain

the basis of astrology. Astrology is a spiritual science and it is

good not to resort to the physical sciences to see the basis or

scientific explanations as far as astrology is concerned. While

modern science is wonderful in its own ways (I myself hail from a

medical background), it is far from a stage where it can explain the

subtle phenomena fully. Would you try to attempt explaining the

influence a woman that you were in love with, exercised over you

through gravitation or electro-magnetism or any physical science in a

satisfactory way? While the feeling of love can be explained by

biochemistry and neurobiological sciences, breaking it down to

hormones and a few chemicals is an intellectually poor way of

approaching it. A humanistic psychologist wouldn't agree with

this!

 

 

While some theories of Modern physics are useful in understanding

some fragments of astrology, I wouldn't advise even that, because

it is just a case of apples and oranges. Moreover such theories are

useful only for comparison and reference. Modern psychology

**occasionally comes near, only near a similar approach. In this

regard, Carl Jung's works are among the best. Modern science is

undoubtedly far ahead of the old Newtonian and Cartesian paradigm.

But it hasn't fully understood and hence cannot explain psycho-

spiritual phenomena satisfactorily. It is very difficult to tell

where the body ends and the mind begins, or where the mind ends and

the spirit begins. It is impossible to draw watertight compartments

and say that this is physics, and this psychology, and this,

transpersonal psychology, and so on. Why, for that matter, it is not

even easy to draw a line between the non-living and living (read the

works of brilliant scientists like the late Jagadish Chandra Bose for

a sample of that)! Doesn't the consciousness of an observer

influence the experiment with seemingly lifeless particles? Life,

Mind, Consciousness, Soul etc still baffle the scientist and the poet.

 

 

How and why astrology works could be the subject matter of a full

book and still be left only partially answered. I was a topper in my

student days (not just in India, even here in Australia). Through out

my college days, I would come back from an ashram or a journey for my

own personal studies, just three days before the final exams and

still top in some subjects at least (that too with a low percentage

of attendance, which is strictly considered in most medical

universities). And I used to walk away with a prize, in literally

every competition that I would get into. With such academic

background, if you ask me which is the most intellectually

stimulating and vastest subjects of study, I would say

`astrology' and the other allied ancient Indian arts and

sciences.

Astrology can be quite complex. To me medicine seems far less complex

than astrology. The subtleties and nuances of astrology can at times

be quite intricate. Such a subject can be easily misunderstood and

misrepresented. And add to all this, that no licensing or

registration is required! That gives a scope for anybody with little

or pretentious knowledge to call themselves astrologers. So the

plight of astrology in general, apart from a lack of research and

support. Many others on this list, like Sri Sanjay ji and Narasimha

ji are from very good educational,intellectual and professional

backgrounds. They are all very knowledgeable and deeply into

astrology. I am sure that none would approve an attempt to explain

astrology from a so-called `scientific view' at the moment,

especially with reference to the physical sciences. I wrote all this,

because there were references to science, engineering backgrounds

and an attempt to explain astrology through gravitation, electro-

magnetic forces/fields etc. At the moment it would be advisable to

refrain from understanding oranges, with a knowledge of apples.

 

 

As far as I am concerned, physics, philosophy, psychology, art,

medicine and poetry, all are various attempts to understand and

describe the One that became the Many. And they are all wonderful, in

that they seek to understand and thus see different facets. There is

a meeting point between all these subjects, cross-roads where they

all have to meet. It is here that Astrology stands, at this meeting

point. For the time-being, I will stop here and proceed to something

of more immediate relevance- your chart. Hopefully, if time permits,

later I will try to post articles on astrology, psychology and

science in general. But now let me address the chart itself.

 

 

Some inconsistencies often arise from the astrologer's poor

understanding of the subject and the chart. But in this case, I do

not see much inconsistency, at least as far as Sri Narasimha and Mr.

Katti Narahari's analysis is concerned. Both have a point to

make. Since you haven't given Sri Rohini Ranjan Bose's

astrological reasons, I cannot say much about that. And I will add a

little to enhance the understanding.

 

 

What are the factors that one would analyze married life from?

1. The 7th house and lord.

2. Upapada (very important and unfortunately often neglected)

3. The lagna, second, fourth and twelfth houses and lords too

have a bearing.

4. Venus

5. Navamsa

6. There are other divisional charts like the Shastyamsa,

Navamsa-Dwadasamsa or Nava-Dwadasamsa that could be used for all

predictions in general.

 

 

All these factors influence the marriage and married life. But to cut

it short, I will touch upon the most important points as relevant to

your question- MARS being bad.

 

 

1. The Upapada lagna in this chart is in Aries. As its lord,

Mars in the sixth there-from is not good.

 

2. Moreover the Upapada lagna has Rahu in it.

Against this background, Sri Narasimha's point on the Moola dasa

of Rahu, makes good sense. It should be mentioned that Moola dasa or

Lagna kendradi graha dasa, is a very important dasa, other than

Vimsottari and Kalachakra dasas. The very fact that Kalyana Verma

devotes and names an entire chapter to this dasa in his

text `Saravali', is proof of its importance. Yet the

Vimsottari Mars dasa, too should enable one to see the problem quite

clearly.

 

3. Rahu in the Upapada has none other than Mars as his

dispositor. And as already mentioned, this Mars is in the sixth from

the Upapada.

 

4. Such a Mars is in the lagna in the Navamsa! Mars in navamsa

lagna is not at all a nice placement for married life.

 

5. A very BASIC but important point that is grossly

underestimated is the dispositor or sign lord. It is a well known

principle that a planet in it's enemy's sign will not give

good results. This principle is more true for Mars. Mars in its

bitter enemy Mercury's sign Virgo, has seldom given good results,

especially when backed by other factors.

 

NOTE: In fact, I had noticed how the enmity of Mars for Mercury

works, in many charts. The relationship of Mars and Mercury has been

a very interesting principle that surfaced time and again among other

factors, in a study that I have done on the charts of serial killers

and mass murderers. I will soon write an article based on the study,

since it highlights many interesting ideas/principles of Jyotish.

 

 

But getting back to THIS chart, I SHOULD HASTEN TO ADD that the

reference to the study was only to drive home the importance of the

fact that Mars is in the inimical Virgo. Hope my reference is not

taken in any other sense. A very basic thing that astrologers often

neglect is the sign dispositor of a planet. And as I already said,

this principle works more with Mars, especially when backed by other

factors. If one wants to be reminded of how important this principle

is, one only needs to look at Venkatesa's `Sarvartha

Chintamani' for this.

 

 

While Mars is all-important in Nature's survival mechanism as the

principle of `healthy aggression' without which life is

impossible, there is another side to it. How do you expect Mars the

soldier, to react in an enemy camp? It just *irritates him. Isn't

it common that even nice people can be aggressive when they are

fighting against a so-called enemy country? When challenged, the

hidden traits/powers can surface. Likewise, Mars in Virgo, his

enemy's camp, brings to the surface the hidden weaknesses (sometimes

even the strengths), externalizing the hidden aggressive qualities or

weaknesses of the chart, of even a well-placed Mars. And in this

chart, as far as marriage, relationship, and fights are concerned,

Mars (in view of the already mentioned factors) would prove negative.

 

 

The 19th chapter of Sarvartha Chintamani is very interesting in this

regard. In the 22nd chapter, where the author gives the results of

Mars dasa, enemities, sorrow, wrath of government, opposition from

own people, loss of wealth/property, spouse etc are mentioned apart

from disease, for the dasa of Mars occupying the sign of his bitter

enemy. My point here is not to take the words literally, but

understand the principle behind. The classics have to be studied with

an open mind, not for the literal meaning, but for the principles

behind. Then a study of the classics is highly rewarding.

 

 

But is it all bad news? No. Other factors, which I am not discussing

due to lack of time, indicate that it is not totally negative for

other things, though it will prove troublesome. Mars is in a benefic

shastyamsa as well. On the overall, while the period would prove very

bad for marriage, and very challenging in other areas like work,

confrontations and possible illness/accident/surgery at least

moderately, it will actually help in the externalization of the

hidden weaknesses, bring very challenging situations, afford a chance

for introspection, and eventually see you resolve some of the

weaknesses/negative traits. And yes, you will also buy and landed

property/house during this period, and change residence too.

 

 

And most important, a lesser known side of Mars. It can give the

ability to penetrate deeply into any abstruse subject, giving

insights of a very deep nature. No doubt Mars is the sword, the razor

sharp blade. The scorching Martain fire can be transformed into the

fire of knowledge. The blade of Mars can be the razor sharp

discrimination that cuts across ignorance. Is not Kartikeya, the main

deity for Mars, also considered the embodiement of knowledge? To how

many devotees did he not grant the ultimate gnana? Is not Mars called

Mangala, the auspicious? It is this side of Mars that you could

awaken in your life, with an honest and dispassionate approach, with

introspection, efforts and some sadhana, given the overall nature of

the chart.

 

 

As far as the remedial measures are concerned, I will leave that for

others, with just one observation. Some of the remedies suggested are

good in that they might reduce the suffering. But tell me, if you had

a headache regularly for a long time, would you just control the

symptoms by taking an aspirin, or would you try to see if there is

something else like migraine or a cyst or tumor at the root of the

repeated headaches? While some remedies treat the symptom, some go

further into the mechanism too. But the best of all, aim at the roots-

A CHANGE OF CONSCIOUSNESS. Rather than stressing on the negative

karma, why not see the roots from where those karmic PATTERNS

repeatedly spring from.

 

 

You know, the seventh house and first house are very interesting. The

first is `YOU' as you are. No doubt the seventh is your

partner. But it reflects something more than that. The first and

seventh (or for that matter any pair of opposite houses) have the

principle of polarity. They are opposites and thereby attract each

other and enchant each other. No doubt the dissimilarities can be

bothersome, but they are COMPLEMENTARY. The seventh actually brings

what we need to incorporate in ourselves, to be more complete. It is

what you need to complement yourself with, to achieve a more complete

existence. Thus the partner (7th house) is a mirror of ourselves. The

others only reflect my own weaknesses- where I need to focus really.

At a mundane level, while the partner can often initiate a problem,

at a deeper level, we attract to ourselves such partners who mirror

the seventh house principle, of course when we share some karmic debt

with them (good or bad). That is perhaps true of every person whom we

meet or interact with. The `OTHER' (7th house) can be a

mirror, if only we are ready to look honestly. The seventh house and

the experiences it brings, only symbolize those ASPECTS OF OURSELVES,

WHENEVER THE OUTER WORLD COMES REALLY CLOSE TO US. It may be the

other person (7th house), but after all it is MY CHART. So I would

advise any remedy/counseling/activity that moves in the direction of

a change of consciousness, wherein lie the roots. Life is nothing but

a dance towards order, perfection and harmony.

 

 

Note: I haven't even touched some other factors such as the role

of Mars as the lagna lord, or Sun in the 7th etc since I cannot write

a full analysis of the chart in the short time. I tried to actually

address your main question that you raised earlier as to why Mars

dasa is bad for you and also about the seeming inconsistencies.

Astrology is a vast ocean and the techniques are innumerable, like

the waves. Each astrologer approaches it with his own methodology, a

comprehensive set or system of techniques. Even the same astrologer

uses different techniques and methodologies at different times in his

life, to analyze a chart. It depends on his mental state and dasas.

There is no inconsistency in this, or the subject itself. But it is

very important that whatever the methodology, the BASIC PRINCIPLES of

astrology should be employed CORRECTLY with a CLEAR UNDERSTANDING of

how they work. Different methodologies are not mutually exclusive,

but are complementary. The more composite, the approach, the clearer

the picture. Now I really need to go for my lunch as it is already

very late!

 

 

Regards,

 

Satya

 

 

 

vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111> wrote:

> Gentlepeople:

>

> Background:

>

> I am having some serious problems in my life, especially my marital

> life--two divorces, last one very nasty.

>

> The problems begin with the begining on my Mars mahadasa and Mars

is

> well-placed in my horoscope. I had asked for help regarding this

> matter and posed this question to some of the greatest astrologes--

> "Why did my miseries began with the beginning of Mars mahadasa and

> what blemish in my horoscope is causing problems with my spouse."

>

> Responses:

>

> Rohini Ranjan Bose (Great one, his interpretation of horoscope is

the

> greatest I've ever seen): He says, "your horoscope reflects that

> you've hurt a young woman in this life or your prior life. To

rectify

> this problem, fast on Fridays and volunteer your time (not money)

to

> help young destitue women."

>

> Narshimha (Great one): He says, "your mool-dasa of Rahu is the

cause

> of your problems, not your Mars mahadasa and Mars in not to blame.

To

> rectify this problem, feed Brahmins, donate cow to Brahmins, chant

> the mantra of Atmakaraka."

>

> Katti Narhari(Greatness in process): He says, "your mars is

afflicted

> in the upa-padas. To rectify, fast on Saturdays."

>

> Siva (Greatness in process, he usually posts on the junior board):

He

> used bhava kundli and figured out that Mars in bhava was causing

the

> problems.

>

> These are the astrologers who've attempted to help me out of the

> kindness of their heart.

>

> Now, here is one whom I've paid for consultation:

>

> Don't want to use his name (One of the leading astrologers in

India):

> He says,"mar is not the problem, the antardasa of malefic planets

> caused both divorces." To rectify, wear kavach of Mars, do pooja of

> Shani.

>

> It's one thing getting diverse reponse from illitrate idots wearing

> orange colored clothes who have their astrology shops at every

corner

> in India; however, it is SHOCKING that "highly educated" ones noted

> above don't seem to have a consistency in the reading.

>

> Is it possible that the astrologers are trying to attribute

problems

> in someone's life to ANY blemish in the horoscope they can

discover,

> AFTER THE FACT?

>

> Is is possible to make a prediction? Are they capable of making a

> prediction? Is the horoscope a reflection of an individual's past,

> present and future? Can some astrologer make predictions about my

> past that are so true that I become a believer of his/her

prediction

> and guidance about my future?

>

> I began learning astrology recently to understand astrologically

what

> was happening in my life. I've bought books by Earns Wilhelm,

Ronnie

> Dreyer, Narshima Rao, Sanja Rath and read almost every article by

the

> great ones like Rohini Ranjan Bose and Sanjay Rath. The point I'm

> making is that I'm not a wolf in a sheep's hide attacking astrology

> in the name of learning it. However, the deeper I go, the more

> disillusioned I become.

>

> As to using remedies like gem stones and Kavach, I just couldn't

> understand how a gemstone can rectify a blemish in one's chart.

> Planets except the Sun and Moon don't even have rays that could

fall

> on the gemstone to have any effec. And, how can a piece of metal

with

> some numbers engraved on it change my karma?

>

> Mr. Rohini Ranjan Bose is the only one who has asked me to throw

away

> all the Kavach and the gemstones and try to influence my

astrolocical

> blemishes with karma (not just financial donation, but doing the

> actual deeds). -- This makes sense.

>

> In addition to the questions and doubts I've noted above, I have

one

> more question on "mantras." How can chanting mantras of a

particular

> planet or atmakarka influence the karmic reserves of an individual?

>

> Hope the great one as well as the learners and the readers take my

> concerns seriously and respond. My birth data is June 14, 1967,

5.30

> pm, Bombay, India.

>

> PS: I'm not attacking Vedic astrology or astrologers, these are my

> genuine doubts.

>

> M.Desai

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. SP Choudhary:

 

Please accept my profound gratitude for such a

comprehensive response. You sir, are a genius. I'm

hoping you continue posting on this board for many

more years to come.

 

As to the inconsistencies in reading, I wouldn't even

bring it up had these readings been by some "village"

astrologers. However, these readings are by the

masters on the subjects and they bear no resemblence

with each other. As I pointed out in my original mail,

Rohini Ranjan took an approach of dissecting my karma

as they relate to marital problems. Hari somehow tried

to associate Mars with my problems using upa-padas and

Siva somehow tried to associate Mars with my problems

using Bhave Kundi. Narshima gave Mars the clean-chit

and somehow tried to assoicate my problems with Rahu

mool-dasa.

 

Now, my disappointment is that these guys are the

masters, if fact Rohini Ranjan is in the category of

the great one like Richard Houck. Didn't these guys

see a common denominator in my chart? Rohini asked me

to fast on Fridays, Hari asked me to fast on Saturdays

and I'm killing myself fasting on both days.

 

Rohini Ranjan asked me to toss all the kavach and the

gems, this reknowned astrologer in India (don't have

his permission to use his name) asked me to begin

wearing kavachs. And Narshima came up with a remedy

that's totally different than all of the others, he

asked me to perform "Sraddh."

 

Now, Dr. Choudhry, you're a medical doctor, my doctor

friends tell me that they've read thousands of books

and I'm sure you have and I've noted earlier that I

have as well. Now, reading thousands of books in one's

life creates an "inquiring mind."

 

The fallacies and inconsistencies noted above

challenges as well as intrigues my "inquiring mind" as

to the question that,"is astrology, vedic or other,

capable of predicting the future and therefore guide

the person to plan against events in one's life that

are about to happen?"

 

Well, Dr. Choudhry, you've attempted to explain the

fallacies in the readings, but I'm not convinced. I

guess I'll linger around this board to someday meet an

astrologer who could make accurate predictions about

my life and maybe that'll make me a believer OR clear

my doubts.

 

Thank you once more for your post, please continue

posting.

 

M.Desai

 

 

--- Dr Satya Prakash Choudhary

<satyaprakasika wrote:

>

> Aum Namah Shivaya

>

> Dear Mr. Desai and group,

>

> We just cannot compare oranges and apples! Astrology

> works more from

> a psycho-spiritual basis and not a

> Newtonian-Cartesian view of the

> world. Gravitation, Electromagnetism etc will not be

> able to explain

> the basis of astrology. Astrology is a spiritual

> science and it is

> good not to resort to the physical sciences to see

> the basis or

> scientific explanations as far as astrology is

> concerned. While

> modern science is wonderful in its own ways (I

> myself hail from a

> medical background), it is far from a stage where it

> can explain the

> subtle phenomena fully. Would you try to attempt

> explaining the

> influence a woman that you were in love with,

> exercised over you

> through gravitation or electro-magnetism or any

> physical science in a

> satisfactory way? While the feeling of love can be

> explained by

> biochemistry and neurobiological sciences, breaking

> it down to

> hormones and a few chemicals is an intellectually

> poor way of

> approaching it. A humanistic psychologist wouldn't

> agree with

> this!

>

>

> While some theories of Modern physics are useful in

> understanding

> some fragments of astrology, I wouldn't advise even

> that, because

> it is just a case of apples and oranges. Moreover

> such theories are

> useful only for comparison and reference. Modern

> psychology

> **occasionally comes near, only near a similar

> approach. In this

> regard, Carl Jung's works are among the best. Modern

> science is

> undoubtedly far ahead of the old Newtonian and

> Cartesian paradigm.

> But it hasn't fully understood and hence cannot

> explain psycho-

> spiritual phenomena satisfactorily. It is very

> difficult to tell

> where the body ends and the mind begins, or where

> the mind ends and

> the spirit begins. It is impossible to draw

> watertight compartments

> and say that this is physics, and this psychology,

> and this,

> transpersonal psychology, and so on. Why, for that

> matter, it is not

> even easy to draw a line between the non-living and

> living (read the

> works of brilliant scientists like the late Jagadish

> Chandra Bose for

> a sample of that)! Doesn't the consciousness of an

> observer

> influence the experiment with seemingly lifeless

> particles? Life,

> Mind, Consciousness, Soul etc still baffle the

> scientist and the poet.

>

>

> How and why astrology works could be the subject

> matter of a full

> book and still be left only partially answered. I

> was a topper in my

> student days (not just in India, even here in

> Australia). Through out

> my college days, I would come back from an ashram or

> a journey for my

> own personal studies, just three days before the

> final exams and

> still top in some subjects at least (that too with a

> low percentage

> of attendance, which is strictly considered in most

> medical

> universities). And I used to walk away with a prize,

> in literally

> every competition that I would get into. With such

> academic

> background, if you ask me which is the most

> intellectually

> stimulating and vastest subjects of study, I would

> say

> `astrology' and the other allied ancient Indian arts

> and

> sciences.

> Astrology can be quite complex. To me medicine seems

> far less complex

> than astrology. The subtleties and nuances of

> astrology can at times

> be quite intricate. Such a subject can be easily

> misunderstood and

> misrepresented. And add to all this, that no

> licensing or

> registration is required! That gives a scope for

> anybody with little

> or pretentious knowledge to call themselves

> astrologers. So the

> plight of astrology in general, apart from a lack of

> research and

> support. Many others on this list, like Sri Sanjay

> ji and Narasimha

> ji are from very good educational,intellectual and

> professional

> backgrounds. They are all very knowledgeable and

> deeply into

> astrology. I am sure that none would approve an

> attempt to explain

> astrology from a so-called `scientific view' at the

> moment,

> especially with reference to the physical sciences.

> I wrote all this,

> because there were references to science,

> engineering backgrounds

> and an attempt to explain astrology through

> gravitation, electro-

> magnetic forces/fields etc. At the moment it would

> be advisable to

> refrain from understanding oranges, with a knowledge

> of apples.

>

>

> As far as I am concerned, physics, philosophy,

> psychology, art,

> medicine and poetry, all are various attempts to

> understand and

> describe the One that became the Many. And they are

> all wonderful, in

> that they seek to understand and thus see different

> facets. There is

> a meeting point between all these subjects,

> cross-roads where they

> all have to meet. It is here that Astrology stands,

> at this meeting

> point. For the time-being, I will stop here and

> proceed to something

> of more immediate relevance- your chart. Hopefully,

> if time permits,

> later I will try to post articles on astrology,

> psychology and

> science in general. But now let me address the chart

> itself.

>

>

> Some inconsistencies often arise from the

> astrologer's poor

> understanding of the subject and the chart. But in

> this case, I do

> not see much inconsistency, at least as far as Sri

> Narasimha and Mr.

> Katti Narahari's analysis is concerned. Both have a

> point to

> make. Since you haven't given Sri Rohini Ranjan

> Bose's

> astrological reasons, I cannot say much about that.

> And I will add a

> little to enhance the understanding.

>

>

> What are the factors that one would analyze married

> life from?

> 1. The 7th house and lord.

> 2. Upapada (very important and unfortunately often

> neglected)

> 3. The lagna, second, fourth and twelfth houses and

> lords too

> have a bearing.

> 4. Venus

> 5. Navamsa

> 6. There are other divisional charts like the

> Shastyamsa,

> Navamsa-Dwadasamsa or Nava-Dwadasamsa that could be

> used for all

> predictions in general.

>

>

> All these factors influence the marriage and married

> life. But to cut

> it short, I will touch upon the most important

> points as relevant to

> your question- MARS being bad.

>

>

> 1. The Upapada lagna in this chart is in Aries. As

> its lord,

> Mars in the sixth there-from is not good.

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Om Gurave Namah

 

Dear Desai,

 

Even though your reply was for the learned Dr. Choudhary, i will like to clarify

a few things again in my capacity as a student of jyotish.

 

Upa-pada holds the key for marriage. your upa-pada falls in capricorn, ruled by

the great saturn himself. Fasting on saturdays will make you GIVE more and

hence you will find more peace. This is what i have been taught. I still have

to learn what PVR guru has in mind.

 

No need to kill yourself fasting on 2 days. Saturdays should be enough for

matters relating to upa-pada.

 

Regds

 

Hari

 

 

 

 

-

md

vedic astrology

Friday, September 20, 2002 9:41 PM

Re: [vedic astrology] M.Desai's queries, Mars dasa, inconsistencies etc

Dear Dr. SP Choudhary:Please accept my profound gratitude for such

acomprehensive response. You sir, are a genius. I'mhoping you continue posting

on this board for manymore years to come.As to the inconsistencies in reading,

I wouldn't evenbring it up had these readings been by some

"village"astrologers. However, these readings are by themasters on the subjects

and they bear no resemblencewith each other. As I pointed out in my original

mail,Rohini Ranjan took an approach of dissecting my karmaas they relate to

marital problems. Hari somehow triedto associate Mars with my problems using

upa-padas andSiva somehow tried to associate Mars with my problemsusing Bhave

Kundi. Narshima gave Mars the clean-chitand somehow tried to assoicate my

problems with Rahumool-dasa.Now, my disappointment is that these guys are

themasters, if fact Rohini Ranjan is in the category ofthe great one like

Richard Houck. Didn't these guyssee a common denominator in my chart? Rohini

asked meto fast on Fridays, Hari asked me to fast on Saturdaysand I'm killing

myself fasting on both days.Rohini Ranjan asked me to toss all the kavach and

thegems, this reknowned astrologer in India (don't havehis permission to use

his name) asked me to beginwearing kavachs. And Narshima came up with a

remedythat's totally different than all of the others, heasked me to perform

"Sraddh."Now, Dr. Choudhry, you're a medical doctor, my doctorfriends tell me

that they've read thousands of booksand I'm sure you have and I've noted

earlier that Ihave as well. Now, reading thousands of books in one'slife

creates an "inquiring mind." The fallacies and inconsistencies noted

abovechallenges as well as intrigues my "inquiring mind" asto the question

that,"is astrology, vedic or other,capable of predicting the future and

therefore guidethe person to plan against events in one's life thatare about to

happen?" Well, Dr. Choudhry, you've attempted to explain thefallacies in the

readings, but I'm not convinced. Iguess I'll linger around this board to

someday meet anastrologer who could make accurate predictions aboutmy life and

maybe that'll make me a believer OR clearmy doubts.Thank you once more for your

post, please continueposting.M.Desai--- Dr Satya Prakash

Choudhary<satyaprakasika (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:> > Aum Namah Shivaya> > Dear Mr.

Desai and group,> > We just cannot compare oranges and apples! Astrology> works

more from > a psycho-spiritual basis and not a> Newtonian-Cartesian view of the

> world. Gravitation, Electromagnetism etc will not be> able to explain > the

basis of astrology. Astrology is a spiritual> science and it is > good not to

resort to the physical sciences to see> the basis or > scientific explanations

as far as astrology is> concerned. While > modern science is wonderful in its

own ways (I> myself hail from a > medical background), it is far from a stage

where it> can explain the > subtle phenomena fully. Would you try to attempt>

explaining the > influence a woman that you were in love with,> exercised over

you > through gravitation or electro-magnetism or any> physical science in a >

satisfactory way? While the feeling of love can be> explained by >

biochemistry and neurobiological sciences, breaking> it down to > hormones and

a few chemicals is an intellectually> poor way of > approaching it. A

humanistic psychologist wouldn't> agree with> this! > > > While some theories

of Modern physics are useful in> understanding > some fragments of astrology, I

wouldn't advise even> that, because> it is just a case of apples and oranges.

Moreover> such theories are > useful only for comparison and reference. Modern>

psychology > **occasionally comes near, only near a similar> approach. In this >

regard, Carl Jung's works are among the best. Modern> science is > undoubtedly

far ahead of the old Newtonian and> Cartesian paradigm. > But it hasn't fully

understood and hence cannot> explain psycho-> spiritual phenomena

satisfactorily. It is very> difficult to tell > where the body ends and the

mind begins, or where> the mind ends and > the spirit begins. It is impossible

to draw> watertight compartments > and say that this is physics, and this

psychology,> and this, > transpersonal psychology, and so on. Why, for that>

matter, it is not > even easy to draw a line between the non-living and> living

(read the > works of brilliant scientists like the late Jagadish> Chandra Bose

for > a sample of that)! Doesn't the consciousness of an> observer> influence

the experiment with seemingly lifeless> particles? Life, > Mind, Consciousness,

Soul etc still baffle the> scientist and the poet.> > > How and why astrology

works could be the subject> matter of a full > book and still be left only

partially answered. I> was a topper in my > student days (not just in India,

even here in> Australia). Through out > my college days, I would come back from

an ashram or> a journey for my > own personal studies, just three days before

the> final exams and > still top in some subjects at least (that too with a>

low percentage > of attendance, which is strictly considered in most> medical >

universities). And I used to walk away with a prize,> in literally > every

competition that I would get into. With such> academic > background, if you ask

me which is the most> intellectually > stimulating and vastest subjects of

study, I would> say> `astrology' and the other allied ancient Indian arts> and>

sciences. > Astrology can be quite complex. To me medicine seems> far less

complex > than astrology. The subtleties and nuances of> astrology can at times

> be quite intricate. Such a subject can be easily> misunderstood and >

misrepresented. And add to all this, that no> licensing or > registration is

required! That gives a scope for> anybody with little > or pretentious

knowledge to call themselves> astrologers. So the > plight of astrology in

general, apart from a lack of> research and > support. Many others on this

list, like Sri Sanjay> ji and Narasimha > ji are from very good

educational,intellectual and> professional > backgrounds. They are all very

knowledgeable and> deeply into > astrology. I am sure that none would approve

an> attempt to explain > astrology from a so-called `scientific view' at the>

moment, > especially with reference to the physical sciences.> I wrote all

this, > because there were references to science,> engineering backgrounds >

and an attempt to explain astrology through> gravitation, electro-> magnetic

forces/fields etc. At the moment it would> be advisable to > refrain from

understanding oranges, with a knowledge> of apples. > > > As far as I am

concerned, physics, philosophy,> psychology, art, > medicine and poetry, all

are various attempts to> understand and > describe the One that became the

Many. And they are> all wonderful, in > that they seek to understand and thus

see different> facets. There is > a meeting point between all these subjects,>

cross-roads where they > all have to meet. It is here that Astrology stands,>

at this meeting > point. For the time-being, I will stop here and> proceed to

something > of more immediate relevance- your chart. Hopefully,> if time

permits, > later I will try to post articles on astrology,> psychology and >

science in general. But now let me address the chart> itself.> > > Some

inconsistencies often arise from the> astrologer's poor > understanding of the

subject and the chart. But in> this case, I do > not see much inconsistency, at

least as far as Sri> Narasimha and Mr. > Katti Narahari's analysis is concerned.

Both have a> point to> make. Since you haven't given Sri Rohini Ranjan> Bose's>

astrological reasons, I cannot say much about that.> And I will add a > little

to enhance the understanding.> > > What are the factors that one would analyze

married> life from? > 1. The 7th house and lord. > 2. Upapada (very

important and unfortunately often> neglected)> 3. The lagna, second,

fourth and twelfth houses and> lords too > have a bearing. > 4. Venus > 5.

Navamsa> 6. There are other divisional charts like the> Shastyamsa, >

Navamsa-Dwadasamsa or Nava-Dwadasamsa that could be> used for all > predictions

in general.> > > All these factors influence the marriage and married> life. But

to cut > it short, I will touch upon the most important> points as relevant to >

your question- MARS being bad.> > > 1. The Upapada lagna in this chart is

in Aries. As> its lord, > Mars in the sixth there-from is not good. > ===

message truncated ===Do You

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[Guest guest]

Thank you Hari. I'll see if I can continue fasting for two days in a

row, if it becomes difficult, I'll just fast on Satrudays.

 

M.Desai

 

vedic astrology, "Katti Narahari" <katti_narahari@h...>

wrote:

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> --

------------

>

>

> Dear Desai,

>

> Even though your reply was for the learned Dr. Choudhary, i will

like to clarify a few things again in my capacity as a student of

jyotish.

>

> Upa-pada holds the key for marriage. your upa-pada falls in

capricorn, ruled by the great saturn himself. Fasting on saturdays

will make you GIVE more and hence you will find more peace. This is

what i have been taught. I still have to learn what PVR guru has in

mind.

>

> No need to kill yourself fasting on 2 days. Saturdays should be

enough for matters relating to upa-pada.

>

> Regds

>

> Hari

>

>

>

>

> -

> md

> vedic astrology

> Friday, September 20, 2002 9:41 PM

> Re: [vedic astrology] M.Desai's queries, Mars dasa,

inconsistencies etc

>

>

> Dear Dr. SP Choudhary:

>

> Please accept my profound gratitude for such a

> comprehensive response. You sir, are a genius. I'm

> hoping you continue posting on this board for many

> more years to come.

>

> As to the inconsistencies in reading, I wouldn't even

> bring it up had these readings been by some "village"

> astrologers. However, these readings are by the

> masters on the subjects and they bear no resemblence

> with each other. As I pointed out in my original mail,

> Rohini Ranjan took an approach of dissecting my karma

> as they relate to marital problems. Hari somehow tried

> to associate Mars with my problems using upa-padas and

> Siva somehow tried to associate Mars with my problems

> using Bhave Kundi. Narshima gave Mars the clean-chit

> and somehow tried to assoicate my problems with Rahu

> mool-dasa.

>

> Now, my disappointment is that these guys are the

> masters, if fact Rohini Ranjan is in the category of

> the great one like Richard Houck. Didn't these guys

> see a common denominator in my chart? Rohini asked me

> to fast on Fridays, Hari asked me to fast on Saturdays

> and I'm killing myself fasting on both days.

>

> Rohini Ranjan asked me to toss all the kavach and the

> gems, this reknowned astrologer in India (don't have

> his permission to use his name) asked me to begin

> wearing kavachs. And Narshima came up with a remedy

> that's totally different than all of the others, he

> asked me to perform "Sraddh."

>

> Now, Dr. Choudhry, you're a medical doctor, my doctor

> friends tell me that they've read thousands of books

> and I'm sure you have and I've noted earlier that I

> have as well. Now, reading thousands of books in one's

> life creates an "inquiring mind."

>

> The fallacies and inconsistencies noted above

> challenges as well as intrigues my "inquiring mind" as

> to the question that,"is astrology, vedic or other,

> capable of predicting the future and therefore guide

> the person to plan against events in one's life that

> are about to happen?"

>

> Well, Dr. Choudhry, you've attempted to explain the

> fallacies in the readings, but I'm not convinced. I

> guess I'll linger around this board to someday meet an

> astrologer who could make accurate predictions about

> my life and maybe that'll make me a believer OR clear

> my doubts.

>

> Thank you once more for your post, please continue

> posting.

>

> M.Desai

>

>

> --- Dr Satya Prakash Choudhary

> <satyaprakasika> wrote:

> >

> > Aum Namah Shivaya

> >

> > Dear Mr. Desai and group,

> >

> > We just cannot compare oranges and apples! Astrology

> > works more from

> > a psycho-spiritual basis and not a

> > Newtonian-Cartesian view of the

> > world. Gravitation, Electromagnetism etc will not be

> > able to explain

> > the basis of astrology. Astrology is a spiritual

> > science and it is

> > good not to resort to the physical sciences to see

> > the basis or

> > scientific explanations as far as astrology is

> > concerned. While

> > modern science is wonderful in its own ways (I

> > myself hail from a

> > medical background), it is far from a stage where it

> > can explain the

> > subtle phenomena fully. Would you try to attempt

> > explaining the

> > influence a woman that you were in love with,

> > exercised over you

> > through gravitation or electro-magnetism or any

> > physical science in a

> > satisfactory way? While the feeling of love can be

> > explained by

> > biochemistry and neurobiological sciences, breaking

> > it down to

> > hormones and a few chemicals is an intellectually

> > poor way of

> > approaching it. A humanistic psychologist wouldn't

> > agree with

> > this!

> >

> >

> > While some theories of Modern physics are useful in

> > understanding

> > some fragments of astrology, I wouldn't advise even

> > that, because

> > it is just a case of apples and oranges. Moreover

> > such theories are

> > useful only for comparison and reference. Modern

> > psychology

> > **occasionally comes near, only near a similar

> > approach. In this

> > regard, Carl Jung's works are among the best. Modern

> > science is

> > undoubtedly far ahead of the old Newtonian and

> > Cartesian paradigm.

> > But it hasn't fully understood and hence cannot

> > explain psycho-

> > spiritual phenomena satisfactorily. It is very

> > difficult to tell

> > where the body ends and the mind begins, or where

> > the mind ends and

> > the spirit begins. It is impossible to draw

> > watertight compartments

> > and say that this is physics, and this psychology,

> > and this,

> > transpersonal psychology, and so on. Why, for that

> > matter, it is not

> > even easy to draw a line between the non-living and

> > living (read the

> > works of brilliant scientists like the late Jagadish

> > Chandra Bose for

> > a sample of that)! Doesn't the consciousness of an

> > observer

> > influence the experiment with seemingly lifeless

> > particles? Life,

> > Mind, Consciousness, Soul etc still baffle the

> > scientist and the poet.

> >

> >

> > How and why astrology works could be the subject

> > matter of a full

> > book and still be left only partially answered. I

> > was a topper in my

> > student days (not just in India, even here in

> > Australia). Through out

> > my college days, I would come back from an ashram or

> > a journey for my

> > own personal studies, just three days before the

> > final exams and

> > still top in some subjects at least (that too with a

> > low percentage

> > of attendance, which is strictly considered in most

> > medical

> > universities). And I used to walk away with a prize,

> > in literally

> > every competition that I would get into. With such

> > academic

> > background, if you ask me which is the most

> > intellectually

> > stimulating and vastest subjects of study, I would

> > say

> > `astrology' and the other allied ancient Indian arts

> > and

> > sciences.

> > Astrology can be quite complex. To me medicine seems

> > far less complex

> > than astrology. The subtleties and nuances of

> > astrology can at times

> > be quite intricate. Such a subject can be easily

> > misunderstood and

> > misrepresented. And add to all this, that no

> > licensing or

> > registration is required! That gives a scope for

> > anybody with little

> > or pretentious knowledge to call themselves

> > astrologers. So the

> > plight of astrology in general, apart from a lack of

> > research and

> > support. Many others on this list, like Sri Sanjay

> > ji and Narasimha

> > ji are from very good educational,intellectual and

> > professional

> > backgrounds. They are all very knowledgeable and

> > deeply into

> > astrology. I am sure that none would approve an

> > attempt to explain

> > astrology from a so-called `scientific view' at the

> > moment,

> > especially with reference to the physical sciences.

> > I wrote all this,

> > because there were references to science,

> > engineering backgrounds

> > and an attempt to explain astrology through

> > gravitation, electro-

> > magnetic forces/fields etc. At the moment it would

> > be advisable to

> > refrain from understanding oranges, with a knowledge

> > of apples.

> >

> >

> > As far as I am concerned, physics, philosophy,

> > psychology, art,

> > medicine and poetry, all are various attempts to

> > understand and

> > describe the One that became the Many. And they are

> > all wonderful, in

> > that they seek to understand and thus see different

> > facets. There is

> > a meeting point between all these subjects,

> > cross-roads where they

> > all have to meet. It is here that Astrology stands,

> > at this meeting

> > point. For the time-being, I will stop here and

> > proceed to something

> > of more immediate relevance- your chart. Hopefully,

> > if time permits,

> > later I will try to post articles on astrology,

> > psychology and

> > science in general. But now let me address the chart

> > itself.

> >

> >

> > Some inconsistencies often arise from the

> > astrologer's poor

> > understanding of the subject and the chart. But in

> > this case, I do

> > not see much inconsistency, at least as far as Sri

> > Narasimha and Mr.

> > Katti Narahari's analysis is concerned. Both have a

> > point to

> > make. Since you haven't given Sri Rohini Ranjan

> > Bose's

> > astrological reasons, I cannot say much about that.

> > And I will add a

> > little to enhance the understanding.

> >

> >

> > What are the factors that one would analyze married

> > life from?

> > 1. The 7th house and lord.

> > 2. Upapada (very important and unfortunately often

> > neglected)

> > 3. The lagna, second, fourth and twelfth houses and

> > lords too

> > have a bearing.

> > 4. Venus

> > 5. Navamsa

> > 6. There are other divisional charts like the

> > Shastyamsa,

> > Navamsa-Dwadasamsa or Nava-Dwadasamsa that could be

> > used for all

> > predictions in general.

> >

> >

> > All these factors influence the marriage and married

> > life. But to cut

> > it short, I will touch upon the most important

> > points as relevant to

> > your question- MARS being bad.

> >

> >

> > 1. The Upapada lagna in this chart is in Aries. As

> > its lord,

> > Mars in the sixth there-from is not good.

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

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