An amazing challenge to Astrology - Muruli

[Guest guest]

Dear Muruli,

 

My comments in RED below:

 

Dear Mr. Jay Weiss

 

Let me try to answer with my little knowledge.

 

Atma / soul is nothing to do with the number of organs one has. If a person does

not have a hand, eye etc., it does not mean that his/her soul is not complete.

 

***** When I wrote ORGANS I meant those I mentioned i.e. those you can not live

without. You can not live without a heart or brain - that is beyond any

discussion which in turn means that Atma/soul HAS something to do with those

"parts". So here I disagree with you.

 

Secondly and more important point is that it is not a twin birth. It is still an

individual with physical deformity. We can analyse the horoscope keeping this in

mind. NOT AS A TWIN BIRTH.

 

***** This is exactly what I was asking: what is it than ? - it will be very

difficult (if not imposible) to find an acceptable explanation. Not only

astrological but also medical.

 

Kind regards

Jay Weiss

 

 

Regards

Muruli

 

Jay Weiss [jayhw (AT) telia (DOT) com]Tuesday,

September 17, 2002 11:50 AMvedic astrologySubject:

[vedic astrology] Re:] An amazing challange to Astrology - for Sanjay

Dear Sanjay,

 

With all respect, what is it than ?

It is beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are two different personalities with

two different heads, brains and hearts, simply physically bound to each other.

As each one of them is able to take the others medicine, I assume that one can

say that they support each other medically and made it so far up to their 11th

birthday.

 

A single chart will not reflect the mental disposition (as they are different)

nor will it reflect all medical issues that have to do with their separated

internal organs. As an interesting point one may elevate the fact that they

have only one lever. I may also refer to some beliefs that the souls place is

the heart. A dead-end in my opinion.

 

I may be wrong here but I have a feeling that such cases are beyond anything

astrology, or anyone else can explain.

 

One of Gods and natures mysteries which is beyond us. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

Kind regards

Jay Weiss

 

-

Sanjay Rath

vedic astrology

Monday, September 16, 2002 11:28 PM

RE: [vedic astrology] An amazing challange to Astrology - Sanjay,

Narasimha & other gurus

 

 

Om Namo Bhagavate Vaasudevaya

Dear Jay,

That birth is not a twin, the Hridaya padma may look physically separated, but

then it is not so. Normally the longevity will not be good.

With best wishes

Sanjay Rath

http://sanjayrath.tripod.com

Jay Weiss [jayhw (AT) telia (DOT) com]Monday,

September 16, 2002 1:27 AMsjvc;

vedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] An amazing challange

to Astrology - Sanjay, Narasimha & other gurus

Dear Gurus and members,

 

I was just watching on TV one of the most amazing issues in human life, which in

turn creates a huge challenge to astrology as a whole.

We have discussed twins before - many times over - BUT NEVER SOMETHING LIKE THAT ONE.

 

For saving space here, I suggest that you take a look at

this site that has the entire story with some photos:

http://members.tripod.com/~midnightwill/twins.html

and try to come up with an explanation on how this (and similar) case can be

tackled astrologically and karmically.

 

Abigail and Brittany Hensel are conjoined twin - products of a single egg that

for some unknown reason failed to divide fully into identical twins. ... They

have one body conjoined in the lower spinal cord, which contains two individual

heads, two harts, two lungs BUT only one urinary system, one pair of hands and

one pair of legs, which seem to function in full cooperation and harmony (also

during sport games).

The are grown up young girls and no doubt there are two souls here.

 

They are born in a cesarean (one body) - which means EXACTLY AT THE SAME TIME - SAME PLACE!

Kind regards

 

Jay Weiss

 

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[Guest guest]

Hare Rama Krsna!

 

Dear Jay,

 

>A single chart will not reflect the mental disposition (as they are

>different) nor will it reflect all medical issues that have to do with

>their separated internal organs. As an interesting point one may elevate

>the fact that they have only one lever. I may also refer to some beliefs

>that the souls place is the heart. A dead-end in my opinion.

 

That's right, the souls place is in the heart, thus we definitely have 2

individuals here. Let's also consider the birth of Duryodhana and

Jarasandha from the Mahabharata story. Duryodhana and his 99 brothers were

all born from a lump of flesh which emanated from Gandhari's womb. Then it

was divided into 100 parts by mystic process and the individuals grew in a

pot of ghee until they reached the status of a full-grown baby. Now when

do we take the birthtime in this case? When the lump of flesh was born

from the womb? Certainly not, because that would mean they would all have

exactly the same chart. No, it is the time they had their first breath

after evolving in the pot of ghee. Thus here there was no question of

cutting umbilical cord etc, yet to say that such a case falls outside of

the reach of casting a chart for them is wrong, since no individual will

escape from the laws of karma, thus how can we say there cannot be any

chart made for them? Otherwise, how Duryodhana was considered to be the

oldest and the others his younger brothers. Same case for Jarasandha, who

was born into 2 parts, which were thrown in the forest by his father, but

later joined together by the witch Jara and so he came to life. What will

have been his birthtime? Needless to say that it will have been the time

the two parts of his body were joined together and he came to life...

 

Of course, these are extreme examples and beyond the reach of modern

medical science, but still to say that no chart can be made for this kind

of twin births is wrong in my humble opinion. It definitely will be two

individuals with physical deformity. What to say if medical science would

indeed be able to separate the two from each other and give the second one

the bodily parts which he is missing from another source. Quite advanced,

but this kind of medical science was indeed practiced in the time of the

great Mahabharata war.

 

Your sishya,

Dhira Krsna dasa

[Guest guest]

Dear ALL,

In reality conjoined twins are really twins. It depends on when the

zygote splits after fertilization that determines whether the twins

are going to merely share the same sac or in extreme cases share

organs.

 

They may be joined anywhere. If at hips or back without sharing any

major organs, they can be separated.

There are instances of these twins growing up and living a miserable

life, trying to come to term with each others personalities...as they

really stuck to each other..

There are couple of amazing movies about this subject..

 

Even if they are born by cesarean section, I would imagine, because

of their nature they would pose difficulty in extraction and they

could be separated by time (seconds?)..!!

 

One wonders then is time of birth the perfect tool..or time of

conception /(which cannot be found out anyway) the perfect tool.

Is life inside the uterus considered "Life" in astrological terms?

A fetus does not have legal rights, but does it have astro rights?

 

interesting questions...

 

astromedico

vedic astrology, "Dhira Krsna BCS" <Dhira.Krsna.BCS@p...>

wrote:

> Hare Rama Krsna!

>

> Dear Jay,

>

> >A single chart will not reflect the mental disposition (as they are

> >different) nor will it reflect all medical issues that have to do

with

> >their separated internal organs. As an interesting point one may

elevate

> >the fact that they have only one lever. I may also refer to some

beliefs

> >that the souls place is the heart. A dead-end in my opinion.

>

> That's right, the souls place is in the heart, thus we definitely

have 2

> individuals here. Let's also consider the birth of Duryodhana and

> Jarasandha from the Mahabharata story. Duryodhana and his 99

brothers were

> all born from a lump of flesh which emanated from Gandhari's womb.

Then it

> was divided into 100 parts by mystic process and the individuals

grew in a

> pot of ghee until they reached the status of a full-grown baby. Now

when

> do we take the birthtime in this case? When the lump of flesh was

born

> from the womb? Certainly not, because that would mean they would

all have

> exactly the same chart. No, it is the time they had their first

breath

> after evolving in the pot of ghee. Thus here there was no question

of

> cutting umbilical cord etc, yet to say that such a case falls

outside of

> the reach of casting a chart for them is wrong, since no individual

will

> escape from the laws of karma, thus how can we say there cannot be

any

> chart made for them? Otherwise, how Duryodhana was considered to be

the

> oldest and the others his younger brothers. Same case for

Jarasandha, who

> was born into 2 parts, which were thrown in the forest by his

father, but

> later joined together by the witch Jara and so he came to life.

What will

> have been his birthtime? Needless to say that it will have been the

time

> the two parts of his body were joined together and he came to

life...

>

> Of course, these are extreme examples and beyond the reach of modern

> medical science, but still to say that no chart can be made for

this kind

> of twin births is wrong in my humble opinion. It definitely will be

two

> individuals with physical deformity. What to say if medical science

would

> indeed be able to separate the two from each other and give the

second one

> the bodily parts which he is missing from another source. Quite

advanced,

> but this kind of medical science was indeed practiced in the time

of the

> great Mahabharata war.

>

> Your sishya,

> Dhira Krsna dasa