Guest guest Posted September 7, 2002 Report Share Posted September 7, 2002 Namaste friends, > First - everything we have now learned about natural forces is that they act > uniformly on everything - i.e the force of gravitation does not discriminate > based on a person's janam patri. Every human being - regardless of where and > which day they were born experiences the effects of this force. This is > equally applicable with numerous other natural forces. You cannot assume that planetary influences on us have to work through the force of gravitation. We do not know how planets influence us. Even those who accept that planets influence us - like me - do not know through which medium this influence works. Is it through gravitation or electromagnetism? Why can't it be something else? A logically thinking person will certainly not rule out the possibility of planetary influences on us working through a medium that is not yet understood by modern science. After all, string theory has conclusively proven that this universe works in a space that has more than the four dimensions that we normally perceive - time and the three spatial dimensions. Given that there are several more dimensions that we don't yet understand, there are so many possible ways in which planets can influence us. Let us not get biased and say that gravitation is the only way. > Although it is true that planetary bodies do impact the earth - for instance > the phases of the moon have a bearing on the tides. But it should be noted > that again, this is a secular force - not a particularistic force - in other > words - it does not distinguish between one wave of the ocean from another. It > acts on the ocean and on animals in the ocean without concern for when a > particular animal was born. Gravitational force is based on the mass of the body. In that sense, it is individualistic. Magnetic force is individualistic in the sense that it depends on the polarity of the material etc. WHEN we understand through which medium planets influence us, we can understand if the influence is individualistic or not. Until then, it is futile to discuss it. >From my perspective, this is the picture: I don't know how planets influence us. But the Jyotish principles taught to me seem to work and definitely surpass the random probabilities. So I am convinced that there is something worthwhile in astrology. Most Vedic astrologers of today use very simplistic and corrupted versions of the principles. The correct principles are available in the teachings of great sages like Parasara, Jaimini, Garga and Bhrigu. What today's astrologers use is only 1% of their teachings. By correctly understanding their teachings, we are able to easily surpass the random probabilities. So I will continue to study the correlations between planetary movements and the lives of individuals. It will be nice if we can find out why these influences are there and through what medium they work. But, inability to do so should not stand in the way of studying the correlations scientifically. If somebody rules out correlations between planetary movements and our lives, he/she is only jumping to a conclusion without proof. > The only aspects of nature that appear to be strongly individualistic are > those that are normally studied in the fields of biology, chemistry and > material science. Well, some people have this habit of jumping to conclusions. Throughout the history of science, such people have hampered the progress of science. When we don't even know how planets influence us, where is the question of determining if those influences can be individualistic or not? Neither the supporters of astrology can show why planets influence us, nor the detractors of astrology can show why planets cannot influence us. In this situation, the only sane thing a rational person can do is to test astrology and see if it works. > In my case, the ill-effects have been very close at hand. For instance, I can > state that my great grandfather was looked upon as a highly "knowledgeable" > creator of "janam patris". Every year, he would prepare astrolgical charts for > his grandchildren. Unfortunately, my father was the only sibling who took the > charts seriously. And he was the one whose life ended up being the most messed > up. My father's sisters had a healthy skepticism for the charts, and I must > say their lives have turned out quite well. But my father's life was dotted > with a string of avoidable failures. So what's the point? Failure of one psychology scholar does not mean psychology is a bad subject. Drawbacks of one sociology scholar do not prove that sociology is a bad subject. In any case, we don't know how much of an astrologer your father was. India is full of so many so-called astrologers who know very little. Astrology flourished in India in ancient times, but the last 1000 years (the age of Ardra nakshatra) saw the destruction and corruption of genuine knowledge. As the age of Punarvasu nakshatra dawns on us now, there is a renaissance and the correct teachings of maharshis are coming to the fore again. Healthy skepticism is good, but sheer bias in the name of rationality is unhealthy. If your only point is that you do not understand how on earth planets can influence us, you have no point. This is not to say that one should listen to every quack who claims to be an astrologer. There is a lot of a nonsense going on in the name of astrology. Be skeptical. But the priceless knowledge hidden in ancient astrology classics has to be revived and preserved. Some of us are quietly and selflessly executing this important task. Some others seem to be hell-bent on dismissing astrology without a fair hearing. Best regards, P.V.R. Narasimha Rao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2002 Report Share Posted September 7, 2002 Hi, This is an interesting discussion. Here are my 2c for what ever they are worth ... > > First - everything we have now learned about natural forces is that they > act > > uniformly on everything - i.e the force of gravitation does not > discriminate > > based on a person's janam patri. Every human being - regardless of where > and > > which day they were born experiences the effects of this force. This is > > equally applicable with numerous other natural forces. > > You cannot assume that planetary influences on us have to work through the > force of gravitation. > > We do not know how planets influence us. Even those who accept that planets > influence us - like me - do not know through which medium this influence > works. Is it through gravitation or electromagnetism? Why can't it be > something else? > > A logically thinking person will certainly not rule out the possibility of > planetary influences on us working through a medium that is not yet > understood by modern science. > > After all, string theory has conclusively proven that this universe works in > a space that has more than the four dimensions that we normally perceive - > time and the three spatial dimensions. Given that there are several more > dimensions that we don't yet understand, there are so many possible ways in > which planets can influence us. Let us not get biased and say that > gravitation is the only way. > Why even assume that planets influence anything? Here is a precise formulation of the basic premise behind astrology: Each configuration of the 7 planets, the 2 nodes and the ascendant give a point in the space [0,360)^10; let us call this the astrological space or A-space. And each such point in A-space has a one to many relationship with points in the modern physic's 4- dimensional space-time continuum. In other words given a point in 4-d space and time i.e., latitude and longitude position on earth and a point in time this can be mapped to a unique point in the A-space. In other words, given an individual's birth time & place, this can be represented as a point in the A-space. Thus, the basic premise behind astrology is: individual's whose births map to points that are "near by" in A-space have similar paths (or events) in their lives. Different astrological rules, charts in astrology identify different points in A-space that are "near by" in the sense that these individuals have similar occurences with respect to a particular aspect of life. Here is the interesting part: these astrological rules are no different from using a learning theory algorithm to learn which person's life styles make them prone to cancer/heart attacks etc. The A-space is certainly diverse enough to capture the eccentricities of each individual's fate. For example, the same point in A-space does not recur for atleast LCM(12,30) years (= 60 years) ... probably some one who wrote the software to generate birth charts can give an even better upper bound (I suspect it is more like 1000's of years). If you do not believe the rules that the sages give, you can try to generate your own rules for "clustering" points of interest in the A- space ... astrology only asks you to believe that reasonable clustering rules exist! Now that we got the problem into a mathematical setting, it is interesting to note that generating a statistically significant sampling of the A-space to either prove or disprove it needs too many points (the well known dimensionality curse) ... thus finding your own astrological rules is a really hard problem. Many techniques have been developed recently in statistics/learning theory to tackle these situations better ... Best, Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2002 Report Share Posted September 8, 2002 Hi krishna, Please to IndiaPolicy and send this mail.. I appreciate your effort. Regards, Kautilya --- kr_nine <kr_nine wrote: > Hi, > > This is an interesting discussion. Here are my 2c > for what ever they > are worth ... > > > > > First - everything we have now learned about > natural forces is > that they > > act > > > uniformly on everything - i.e the force of > gravitation does not > > discriminate > > > based on a person's janam patri. Every human > being - regardless > of where > > and > > > which day they were born experiences the effects > of this force. > This is > > > equally applicable with numerous other natural > forces. > > > > You cannot assume that planetary influences on us > have to work > through the > > force of gravitation. > > > > We do not know how planets influence us. Even > those who accept that > planets > > influence us - like me - do not know through which > medium this > influence > > works. Is it through gravitation or > electromagnetism? Why can't it > be > > something else? > > > > A logically thinking person will certainly not > rule out the > possibility of > > planetary influences on us working through a > medium that is not yet > > understood by modern science. > > > > After all, string theory has conclusively proven > that this universe > works in > > a space that has more than the four dimensions > that we normally > perceive - > > time and the three spatial dimensions. Given that > there are several > more > > dimensions that we don't yet understand, there are > so many possible > ways in > > which planets can influence us. Let us not get > biased and say that > > gravitation is the only way. > > > > Why even assume that planets influence anything? > Here is a precise > formulation of the basic premise behind astrology: > > Each configuration of the 7 planets, the 2 nodes and > the ascendant > give a point in the space [0,360)^10; let us call > this the > astrological space or A-space. And each such point > in A-space has a > one to many relationship with points in the modern > physic's 4- > dimensional space-time continuum. In other words > given a point in 4-d > space and time i.e., latitude and longitude position > on earth and a > point in time this can be mapped to a unique point > in the A-space. In > other words, given an individual's birth time & > place, this can be > represented as a point in the A-space. Thus, the > basic premise behind > astrology is: individual's whose births map to > points that are "near > by" in A-space have similar paths (or events) in > their lives. > Different astrological rules, charts in astrology > identify different > points in A-space that are "near by" in the sense > that these > individuals have similar occurences with respect to > a particular > aspect of life. > > Here is the interesting part: these astrological > rules are no > different from using a learning theory algorithm to > learn which > person's life styles make them prone to cancer/heart > attacks etc. > > The A-space is certainly diverse enough to capture > the eccentricities > of each individual's fate. For example, the same > point in A-space > does not recur for atleast LCM(12,30) years (= 60 > years) ... probably > some one who wrote the software to generate birth > charts can give an > even better upper bound (I suspect it is more like > 1000's of years). > > If you do not believe the rules that the sages give, > you can try to > generate your own rules for "clustering" points of > interest in the A- > space ... astrology only asks you to believe that > reasonable > clustering rules exist! > > Now that we got the problem into a mathematical > setting, it is > interesting to note that generating a statistically > significant > sampling of the A-space to either prove or disprove > it needs too > many points (the well known dimensionality curse) > ... thus finding > your own astrological rules is a really hard > problem. Many techniques > have been developed recently in statistics/learning > theory to tackle > these situations better ... > > Best, > > Krishna > ------------------------ Sponsor > > Archives: > vedic astrology > > Group info: > vedic astrology/info.html > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu > || > > Your use of is subject to > > > Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2002 Report Share Posted September 8, 2002 Dear Narasimha & List, You wrote: > We do not know how planets influence us. Even those who accept that planets > influence us - like me - do not know through which medium this influence > works. Is it through gravitation or electromagnetism? Why can't it be > something else? > A logically thinking person will certainly not rule out the possibility of > planetary influences on us working through a medium that is not yet > understood by modern science. I applaud you for the above and share the same opinion to 100%. I am currently in close contact with an incredible person who is very mediumistic on a very special level. We have been discussing this issue several times and I do hope to be able to publish (in the near future) a document which may open a new avenue for this issue. A thought: Each and every one of us have a sort of a COSMIC CODE on the soul level, which can receive/pick-up only the 'signals' addressed to it, ignoring all others. For modern comparison, see how mobile phone networks operate ... That may also be a reason why transits work for some configurations and don't for other similar one's. Kind regard Jay Weiss - "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr <IndiaPolicy>; <vedic astrology> Saturday, September 07, 2002 10:49 PM [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology has no utility whatsoever > Namaste friends, > > > First - everything we have now learned about natural forces is that they > act > > uniformly on everything - i.e the force of gravitation does not > discriminate > > based on a person's janam patri. Every human being - regardless of where > and > > which day they were born experiences the effects of this force. This is > > equally applicable with numerous other natural forces. > > You cannot assume that planetary influences on us have to work through the > force of gravitation. > > We do not know how planets influence us. Even those who accept that planets > influence us - like me - do not know through which medium this influence > works. Is it through gravitation or electromagnetism? Why can't it be > something else? > > A logically thinking person will certainly not rule out the possibility of > planetary influences on us working through a medium that is not yet > understood by modern science. > > After all, string theory has conclusively proven that this universe works in > a space that has more than the four dimensions that we normally perceive - > time and the three spatial dimensions. Given that there are several more > dimensions that we don't yet understand, there are so many possible ways in > which planets can influence us. Let us not get biased and say that > gravitation is the only way. > > > Although it is true that planetary bodies do impact the earth - for > instance > > the phases of the moon have a bearing on the tides. But it should be noted > > that again, this is a secular force - not a particularistic force - in > other > > words - it does not distinguish between one wave of the ocean from > another. It > > acts on the ocean and on animals in the ocean without concern for when a > > particular animal was born. > > Gravitational force is based on the mass of the body. In that sense, it is > individualistic. Magnetic force is individualistic in the sense that it > depends on the polarity of the material etc. WHEN we understand through > which medium planets influence us, we can understand if the influence is > individualistic or not. Until then, it is futile to discuss it. > > >From my perspective, this is the picture: I don't know how planets influence > us. But the Jyotish principles taught to me seem to work and definitely > surpass the random probabilities. So I am convinced that there is something > worthwhile in astrology. Most Vedic astrologers of today use very simplistic > and corrupted versions of the principles. The correct principles are > available in the teachings of great sages like Parasara, Jaimini, Garga and > Bhrigu. What today's astrologers use is only 1% of their teachings. By > correctly understanding their teachings, we are able to easily surpass the > random probabilities. So I will continue to study the correlations between > planetary movements and the lives of individuals. It will be nice if we can > find out why these influences are there and through what medium they work. > But, inability to do so should not stand in the way of studying the > correlations scientifically. > > If somebody rules out correlations between planetary movements and our > lives, he/she is only jumping to a conclusion without proof. > > > The only aspects of nature that appear to be strongly individualistic are > > those that are normally studied in the fields of biology, chemistry and > > material science. > > Well, some people have this habit of jumping to conclusions. Throughout the > history of science, such people have hampered the progress of science. > > When we don't even know how planets influence us, where is the question of > determining if those influences can be individualistic or not? > > Neither the supporters of astrology can show why planets influence us, nor > the detractors of astrology can show why planets cannot influence us. In > this situation, the only sane thing a rational person can do is to test > astrology and see if it works. > > > In my case, the ill-effects have been very close at hand. For instance, I > can > > state that my great grandfather was looked upon as a highly > "knowledgeable" > > creator of "janam patris". Every year, he would prepare astrolgical charts > for > > his grandchildren. Unfortunately, my father was the only sibling who took > the > > charts seriously. And he was the one whose life ended up being the most > messed > > up. My father's sisters had a healthy skepticism for the charts, and I > must > > say their lives have turned out quite well. But my father's life was > dotted > > with a string of avoidable failures. > > So what's the point? Failure of one psychology scholar does not mean > psychology is a bad subject. Drawbacks of one sociology scholar do not prove > that sociology is a bad subject. In any case, we don't know how much of an > astrologer your father was. India is full of so many so-called astrologers > who know very little. > > Astrology flourished in India in ancient times, but the last 1000 years (the > age of Ardra nakshatra) saw the destruction and corruption of genuine > knowledge. As the age of Punarvasu nakshatra dawns on us now, there is a > renaissance and the correct teachings of maharshis are coming to the fore > again. > > Healthy skepticism is good, but sheer bias in the name of rationality is > unhealthy. If your only point is that you do not understand how on earth > planets can influence us, you have no point. > > This is not to say that one should listen to every quack who claims to be an > astrologer. There is a lot of a nonsense going on in the name of astrology. > Be skeptical. But the priceless knowledge hidden in ancient astrology > classics has to be revived and preserved. Some of us are quietly and > selflessly executing this important task. Some others seem to be hell-bent > on dismissing astrology without a fair hearing. > > Best regards, > P.V.R. Narasimha Rao > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2002 Report Share Posted September 8, 2002 dear narasimha ji. i do agree on your view , if destiny is fixed astrology has little effect on it as per your father case he could hardly change anything to his destiny. i think purpose of astrology should be to warn you about good or bad time ahead so we could change our behavior in relation to life on earth. i will say plant do effect life ---gravitational electromagnatic and surely thru medium of devas as we can not run from ourself it will engulf us sooner or later. regards rajinder Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2002 Report Share Posted September 8, 2002 Hi Rajinder, Astrology should be taken as a map that provides guidance about the likely outcomes, which certain choices result in. For e.g. a map tells you how to get from point A to point B, and tells you the shortest path, but it does NOT tell if there is an accident on the way, and that there is a detour when you actually drive on the road. In the application of astrology, care has to be taken to discern the likely chances that the planetary influences take, but deciding upon the usage of those chances rest with the individual. Astrology, common sense and intuition, coupled with hard work are the best ways of ensuring success in life. If say astrology states that I will become the PM of India, by just sitting and doing nothing, obviously I am NOT going to become one. But if on the other hand I work on it, and involve myself in grassroots politics, make the right moves etc., then there is a very good chance that I might indeed become a PM. On some issues however, astrology DOES say things with finality. Like the possibility of health problems etc. manisfesting themselves at a particular stage. These can be foretold by certain planetary factors, which can be discerned from reading the horoscope of a person. Sincerely. Vivek. --- Rajinder Nath <jinderman wrote: > dear narasimha ji. > i do agree on your view , if destiny is fixed > astrology has little effect on it as per your father > case he could hardly change anything to his destiny. > i think purpose of astrology should be to warn you > about good or bad time ahead so we could change our > behavior in relation to life on earth. > i will say plant do effect life > ---gravitational electromagnatic and surely thru > medium > of devas as we can not run from ourself it will > engulf > us sooner or later. > regards > rajinder > > > > > Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > http://finance. > ===== vivek_prabhu (Vivek R. Prabhu) Technology Officer - PRABHU Technologies San Jose, CA 95134. http://www.vi-jyot.com/vivek.html Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2002 Report Share Posted September 8, 2002 hello vivek ji, let us take astrology as a map and hard work along with it. there are two candidate for it only one wins and that also of cheating. the real hard worker sitting cursing his fate or effort. my point probaly was it dosenot help to know about thru astrology our material gains or our day to day life but it does help if we need to find out if we could leave this world happily and not crying as we came here in other world to realise who we really are we all talk about atma how many ever realise this. but there must be potentiality in each of us to get there thou it may be experiencing suffering and understanding it. i tried to get answer to one of student about mass destuction of lives on 91102 he is a sincer student he wrote back thereis bahu mritu yoga and if one is wrong time and place he could be weashed away with it. so individual chart is not of any importance. when bahu mritu yoga take place. see time is a only instrument to measure and we use to measure time with moon calender in jotisa we still use naksatra when sun enter ashwani that is chaitra. now science uses different method everything is measured in astronomy from point of aries and these both point far apart from each other tomorrow will remain uncertain how hard we trry but one shold not drop out and strive to find really if we are atmas my belive is our world will change if we let our soul shine let drop our little egos . -thanks rajinder - Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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