Guest guest Posted September 6, 2002 Report Share Posted September 6, 2002 Hello Visti: Your response about the "Soul" jives with the response that Kanupriya just posted that upon attaining moksha, the soul becomes one with god. This solves my puzzle. Visti, as to your notes on "discrimination," let me remind you that 500 years of atrocities committed by the Muslim rulers against my ancestors cannot be washed away by my attempt to live a righteous life. I guess in my attempts to live a righteous life, I don't physically retaliate against the Muslims. However, the verbal venom is a good release. Now, you may say that having hate in my heart itself contradicts my attempt to be righteous. However, you tell me--don't you feel hatred against the Muslims for the atrocities commited by the Ottoman Turks in Europe (assuming your ancestors came from Europe)? OR won't you feel hatred against the Muslims for the atrocities being committed right now in the holy land against the Jews, assuming you're a Jew? In any case, you answered my question regarding the atma and I'd love to continue learning astrology on this board. Visti, I just posted one more question on heaven and hell, please check it out and enlighten me once more with your profound response if you have an opinion on this subject. Thank you. MD > Vyam Vysaadevaaya Namah > > -- ------------ > > Dear MD, > The soul 'parks' its sense of individuality at the doorstep, and realises that its non-different from the rest of bhagawan/allah/god. > > I am deeply agrieved to see people use such discriminating words such as 'islamic savage'. I would not dare teach astrology to someone who uses such words, or has such values/beliefs, as this far from qualifies one from being fit to USE this knowledge. What ill could a racist do with the knowledge of astrology? its like giving a fisherman a torpedo. > > CORRECT YOURSELF! - Discrimination is also a sin, and you won't be allowed into any higher lokas where there are any 'islamic savages'.. instead you will get a lower loka, with people of like-minds. Free your mind. > > Best wishes, Visti. > > > - > monmuk111 > vedic astrology > Friday, September 06, 2002 8:14 PM > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology and Islam > > > Dear Sudharsan: > > Even better said, I respect the feelings of others on this board and > will stop posting on this subject unless provoked again by some > Islamic savage. > > On another point, you mention that "we are permanent entities as > souls," I agree. However, if soul is permanent, what is moksha? Does > moksha mean that the soul stops the cycle of birth and re-birth? And > if this is what moksha is, then where does the soul utlimately park > itself after attainig moksha? > > Sudarsan: I've attempted to live a righteous life so that I (my soul) > attains moksha. Now, does my past life sins withold me from attaining > moksha even though I've lived a righteious life in the current life? > > Others on the board knowledgeable on this subject are welcome to > enlighten me as well. Thank you. > > MD > > vedic astrology, Sudharsan Srinivasan <sudhar108> > wrote: > > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > Jaya Jagannatha > > Dear List, > > I think its time we step on the brakes with this thread. This type > of exchange certainly does not add to our knowledge nor does it > encourage Sattwa which is very important in our learning.Maybe we > should gain some more knowledge about the transmigration of the soul > and the fact that we are spirit souls and NOT this body.Bodily > identification is the root cause of all bondage and miseries in this > world.Some of us have Indian bodies and others have chinese bodies , > American bodies and Pakistani bodies. According to the Lord in the > Srimad Baghavad Gita, some of us who identify ourselves as indians in > this birth could have been pakistanis or Arabs in our previous > births.Can anyone here refute the same? Or can anyone here guarantee > their birth again in India? > > We are spirit souls , part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and since > He is permanent and we are permanent entities as souls, a temporary > body should not be our identification. It would help greatly if we > view the world through Guru, Sadhu and Sashthra. > > Hare Krishna > > Sudharsan > > monmuk111 wrote:Hello Rampriya: > > > > Imran seems like a nice guy, at least he is attempting transcend > the > > bounds of Islam and look at what other cultures and religions have > to > > offer. There may be a fatwa on Imran's head in Pakistan just for > > posting on this board. Maybe he'll have to run away to India or US > or > > England to save his life. Hey Imran, if your savage blood thirsty > > brothers kick you out of Pakistan, you're welcome to make India > your > > home.--India has given citizenship to two hundred million of your > > brothers, why not one more!! > > > > What amazes me is that the the muslims in Inida forget that they're > > just a guest in India, they were given their own separat homeland > > then why not move to their homeland, Pakistan in the West and > > Bangladesh in the East? The intent and essence of partition was > > separate homeland for Hindus and Muslims. The Muslims got their > > homeland, then why are they still in India. Hindus are too nice, > the > > Hindus should have removed EACH and EVERY muslim after the > partition > > from Hindustan and shipped them to WestPakistan and East Pakistan. > > > > Every time I visit India or the middle east (I'm scared to visit > any > > country in the middle-east except Bahrain), I have a bitter > > experience of the muslim savages. However, the Hindus are loving, > > caring, sharing and above all open to a foreigner. The savages who > > blew up the WTC and killed thousands of innocents made my > sentiments > > about these savages even more stronger. > > > > Rampriya, I wish you had posted your analysis in reponse to some > > blood thirsty savage muslim like the ones who blew up the WTC and > the > > ones to kill innocent Israeli civilians and the ones who rape, > > pillage and kill innocent Kashmiri Pandits who've been living in > > Kashmir even before the religion of the savages was born in 800 AD. > > Imran seems like a good man. > > > > MD > > > > vedic astrology, Ramapriya D <ramapriya_d> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Imran, > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jagmeet, Qamar and List, > > > > > > Hello/Pranam, > > > > > > It is usually said that astrology is strickly prohibited in Islam > > and there are hundreds of Fatawa and opposing arguments about > > astrology. > > > > > > > > > > > > Old hat. But who doesn't know the mindset of the blokes who issue > > fatwas? > > > > > > > > > > > > Very few persons tried to highlite the true picture. If our > > respected Hidu conferes do not mind then I want to lay my personal > > opinion about the place of astrology in Islam. Because I know this > > web-group is build to discuss, preech and teach vedic astrology.But > I > > am penning as this forum is covering many borders of occult > subjects. > > > > > > > > > > > > Great. You must've also noticed that there are many excellent > > astrologers on this group who aren't Hindu. Which is exactly how a > > body of knowledge should always be kept and treated - divorced from > > religion to the extent possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Because Islam is the fatest growing > > > > > > > > > > > > The rate at which Muslims are proliferating (at least in India), > > your statement will up to the sternest scrutiny. > > > > > > > > > > > > and youngest religion of the world and many of its education are > > beyond geography, caste and colour, therefore its `culture or > > civilization' has still been evolving, > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a minute. This reminds me of khilafat, which I'll come to > > laterbut tell me, where did the term kafir originate from? A kafir > is > > a heretic, and whoever doesn't embrace Islam is a kafir. Is this or > > isn't this preached? > > > > > > > > > > > > although its essentials are completed and compiled in the form of > > Quran and Hadees(the collections of sayings of Prophet Muhammad). > > > > > > > > > > > > Bingo! The essentials are in the Koran but the pert > interpretations > > are all done by your well-meaning cheerleaders like our own Imam > > Bukhari (next in line for the Nobel Peace Prize, I hear). > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at the initial periods of Arab tradition we don't get any > > clue of astrology in that region, but other techniques of fortune > > telling was in vogue including witchcraft, alchemy and omen by > > observing sky, birds and sand of desert. A mind of current age find > > lots of Hadeeses reveal many a times Prophet Muhammad prohibited > such > > activities, superstitions and cursed those who was involved in that > > business of prophecy. But very few knows that, in the life of > > Muhammad no one was aware of astrology in the Arab. > > > > > > > > > > > > After many years when Islam was spreaded outside Arabian region, > > the muslim came across many of non-arab arts and sciences and the > > scholars of those time adopted and learn the different branches of > > knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > You omit mentioning how Islam spread so far and wide - I mean, > all > > the pillaging, looting, plundering, subjugating and raping of wide > > chunks of innocent populaces by marauding Islamic invaders. Not > that > > the Christian missionary conversion techniques here of dangling > > attractive but non-existent economic benefits a lot better, but the > > historical Islamic conversion techniques were surely a lot less > civil. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Greek and Greece were the richest source of knowledge for > Arab > > conquerers. Arab were been fimiliar with astology through Greek, > and > > after that they study astrology thoroughly, make an authentic > > research and build new postulates. > > > > > > > > > > > > In my dictionary, a postulate is a guess or assumption. You sure > > you meant that? Fits well, actually, but I'm just making sure. > > > > > > > > > > > > Iran, Iraq, Central Asia and Turkey were the centres of > > astrological knowledge. Al-Beruni was the first eminent muslim > > scholar who came India, learn Sanskrit and Vedic literature and > then > > after translated Brihat Samhita of Vrihamihira. The successors of > > Beruni developed new theories on the basis of Beruni's work, which > he > > extracted from Indian souls. At that time no major opposition > arised > > against astrology because many of the religious scholars themselves > > know astronomy and astrology very well. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately today's Maulvis could not differentiate between the > > fortunetelling that was practiced during Muhammad's life and > present > > approach and philosophy of astrology. Therefore we see lot of > > material full of opposing views and `Fatawas'. The rigid mullahas > are > > blindly stick to the wordings of Prophet, without comprehend the > > purpose and appraoch of Prophet's wordings. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your maulvis aren't just rigid and non-conducive to the spread > and > > acceptance of astrology, most of them are rogues. I remember your > > khilafat movement of '96 very well, where the same maulvis urged > all > > Muslims to unite into a single nation, regardless of geographical > > boundaries or regional loyalties. Meaning, an Indian Muslim must > > identify more with a Sudanese or Afghan Muslim than with his own > > Hindu neighbour. And if he must respect a government, it should be > > one as saintly as Saudi Arabia's: The Muslim ethos must always > > supersede the Indian one. There's another aspect to khilafat, that > > which is tacit and understood by the 'believers', and without also > > which Islam remains incomplete: its ultimate aim is the > Islamization > > of the world. Like Christianity, and unlike Hinduism, Islam is a > > proselytizing religion. However, whereas the Christian West sends > > overtly gentle missionaries, there are no such self-constraints on > > the Arab world. How did you think the Taleban popped up in Oct 96? > > And what can you expect when the majority of the pack wants to > follow > > a dog that barks thus? > > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas, there is a learned and intellectual class who donot > think > > Astrology beyond the teaching of Islam, they hold that it's a > science > > cum art which should be given its right place. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not all Hindus vouch automatically for astrology either. In fact, > > the majority of Indians don't believe in the science. But believers > > aren't regarded as heretics here, which your maulvis so > deliberately > > propagate. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am again recalling that there was not any existance of Asrology > > and even Palmisty in the Arabian region at the time of Muhammad's > > life. So how it become a sin, when there are not any Sura or Hadees > > prohibiting to consult or practice 'astrology' directly. All the > > Hadees are with reference to those techniques of fortunetelling > that > > was prevailed in the dark age of Arabian history. The study of > > Astrology come under the Imam Ghazili's category of Non- Revealed > > Knowledge. For which the fourth and last criteria of Sharia > > i.e; `Ijtehad' (interpretation of any newly arises problem/point in > > the light of Quran by the present savants and scholars for the > > benefit of muslim as a whole) is always there to check its all good > > and bad impacts on the society and then decide whether it should > > allow or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > But why do you guys require moral policing at all? And that too > by > > those that generate the mentality that can't stomach the return of > > merely 3 Hindu temples from the thousands desecrated and turned > into > > mosques by the aforesaid Arab invaders? > > > > > > > > > > > > And that is the opinion of the majority of educated muslims not > > only in Pakistan > > > > > > > > > > > > .where they're in an utter minority. Thankfully, there are many > > Muslims in India who're Indians first. > > > > > > > > > > > > but also around the world. Through this message I want to ask the > > opponent, if astrology is not allowed in Islam then how Jafr (a > > sacred numerical way of delineating query and talisman making) > > and `Faal' (omen or presage with the help of sacred book or > numbers) > > can be permitted. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also ask how khilafat can be propogated? Or even fatwas? > > > > > > > > > > > > Here I donot want to repeat the names of muslim astrologers, > their > > work and the famouse rulers who favoured to practice astrology, > > because this site is reserved for the propagation of vedic > astrology. > > These few word are the answer of my personal explation of the > > frequently asked question i.e; Astrology is prohibited in Islam > why? > > and one of our web friend Mr.Jagmeet S Dheendsa, who queried about > > relevent topic. The article attatched containing many good > > perspective but with a losely translated Hadees without any > > reference. > > > > > > In another mail our dear Qamar Waheed Naqvi required the source > of > > quote someone used last week, In my view the actual words are Ilm > > (knowledge) and Aalim(savant) not the astrology and astrologer, but > > since there are many translations of Hazrat Ali's "Nahij-ul- > Balagha", > > so instantly I can't write the correct name of translator, though > I > > didn't use the quote but I will try to get the correct wordings > from > > authentic sources. Qamar also wants to know about the vedic > tradition > > in Pakistan or some useful web-links that can hilight it. > Unfortunate > > you hardly find any site contianing efforts or research work of > > Pakistani vedic astrologers, but its not mean that there is not any > > astrologer or researcher performing this task. I know many and I > > will inform you. But little knowledge is often dangerous, so first > I > > myself collect complete information then write any thing later. > > > > > > > > > > > > Imran, you've a great opportunity to learn vedic astro here and > put > > it in good use there. Most astrologers here are knowledgeable and > > nice [me excepted on both counts ] and if you receive even half > > the amount of help I've got, you'll learn twice as much as I have. > > Don't let go. Nothing succeeds like failure, especially in this > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > M.Imran > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards from lovely Karnataka > > > > > > (from where you migrated), > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramapriya > > > > > > > > > > > > PS: I hope I won't be flamed for this post, but I sure wasn't > > trolling Imran, but just airing my views. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-@e... > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-@e... > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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