RE: Two Zodiacs? Perhaps it's Ma and Pa, Again!

[Guest guest]

Appended is the post borrowed from another egroup:

 

----------------

On the calendar issue, I feel the word "tropical

zodiac" is a misnomer. Tropical (i.e., seasonal)

calendar originated in Greece is a primitive notion of

keeping track of days wrt seasons only. Hence

primitive notions such as "zodiac" moves, and so on.

Even in modern astronomy, or Inertial reference

frames, these notions are JOKES, but the primitive

MacCaulay west clings to its Greek wisdom. Let it be

so, we need not even address it...Just ignore it as

some child's prank...

 

There is only one zodiac.

 

Zodiac, i.e., stars in the sky are "relatively" fixed

wrt earth and aaditya mandala. That it is the other

way around is the Ptolemy mind of Greece. We must use

this "fixed" star base as the definition of the term

"zodiac". Then the misnomer goes away. The Greek &

western error is to see the seasonal framework as

"fixed".

 

-------------------

 

 

 

gjlist, Das Goravani <das@g...> wrote:

>

>

>

> It struct me now: The Vedic Zodiac, based in stars,

 

> insensitive to, and thus needing adjustment to, the

tilt of

> the Earth which causes a new "perceived and

moveable" Zodiac

> to be around us always, the perceived Zodiac, the

Western

> Zodiac, where Matriarchy, the circle, ruled, the

tilt, is a

> circular wobble, causing seasons, changes, motion,

movement,

> precession backwards the Patriarchy feels, movement

forward

> the world feels.

>

> What is an equinox? It's a perception, which

happens at the

> whim of the circular wobble, do you see?

>

> Our "real" living life we perceive NOW is based on

Western

> Zodiac.

>

> The karmic original powerful and dominant Zodiac is

yet

> another thing.

>

> By the one we know our father, by the other, our

mother.

>

> This is very significant. Neither alone is complete.

>

> The truth hurts, to those who are it's enemies.

>

> By one half of reality alone you will not know your

current

> self, but only your self in relation to leaving this

world

> or staying in it, which may be not in your present

reality,

> which may be the mix, or gradual progress.

Patriarchy is

> perhaps, the dark night of the soul. For the night

isn't

> dark to those one with mothers dark half.

>

> Some say, "Western is better for personality". This

is a

> dumbed-down-over-time way of saying what is perhaps

quite

> true, and better said as "Western shows you your

position in

> the current relative living world of perception with

peer

> humans", and Vedic shows you "You position in

relationship

> to the absolute and eternal non perceived reality".

>

> These statements could of couse be improved finer,

more

> educated thinking.

>

> I find this realization quite scientific, though

such

> support I'm not going into much here. I find this

> realization quite significant because of science as

well as

> mystical reasons and rationale.

>

> I am "tripping on" the play of these two halves of

the

> whole. I am trying these days to see the basic Hora

> division, night and day, male and female, in things,

so

> excuse the focus there, it's my current study.

>

> I do think, Western Zodiac is more "Mother" and

Eastern,

> Sidereal, more "Father". They spawn the likened two

kinds of

> ways of thinking- perilistic, ominous, verse

malable,

> mutable, relative to us now here. Water, is

adjusting, more

> related to mother, and there's more water up North.

The

> Earth is drier, harder, more deserts exist, where

the Sun,

> the Patriarchy, originates from and is still

stronger today.

> The wet and emotional "new age" movement does not

arise in

> Lahore, or Delhi, or Cairo, or Israel's old guard.

No, it

> arises in Wet Eugene, with little hippies in

dreadlocks. I

> have always been a child of the Green, the Water,

the wet. I

> have always taken to this stuff. The way Krishna is,

so

> covered with flowers, girlfriends, music, passion,

cows,

> love and abilities chivalrously splendid, is all

very

> Celtic, and wet, and covered with turns and twists,

dirt

> between toes, not straight roman roads. To "Preach"

for

> Krishna is just about a perfect oximoron. These

splits of

> the two halves living in me have split me in two,

but that's

> OK, it's all good learning.

>

> The earliest authors of our time, Greek historians,

wrote of

> Celts "they are tall, very white and wet skinned".

>

> Things are white and wet where there is no Sun (ie,

ocean

> bottom)

>

> Celts do not digest fat properly, they need certain

fish or

> the oil from certain seeds, otherwise, they actually

feel

> bad. A developed genetic disposition to a certain

diet,

> showing certain karmic alignments for those with

eyes.

>

> And from where and whom do Celts trace their

ancestry?

>

> The Sun, one day, met the Moon, and after

subjegating it,

> retired in exaustion. The moon, not caring that it

was

> subjegated, such being it's normal state, cared for

the Sun

> while he slept.

>

>

>

>

>

> Hope this is interesting. I think so.

>

> By the way, according to most calculations, there

was an

> "alignment" around 300 AD say. This is a very key

time in

> history. I suggest everyone look into what was going

on on

> an emotional level for all of the Western world at

that

> time, all of Europe. Very very interesting. That was

when

> the great Patriarch fell out of control of the West,

Europe

> that is, and the "Natives" began again their old

ways,

> without Romans, but in the wake of their total

dominance and

> presence. It was a time when "Mother" got ahold

again of all

> her Western Children, without "Father" around, but

all his

> forts, roads, and systems were in place, never to

again go

> away. It was a balance point folks. Quite

significant one.

> You and I are literally living in the wake of those

events

> of those days. They were VERY Pivotal.

>

> For example, that IS when Germany took over England.

It did

> happen. Germans took over, and to this day, that's

who's

> there, and that's who conquered India, and the

world, the

> British, are essentially predominantly Germanic

people. The

> Celts however did at that time gain and have

remained since,

> confined in a way to the Western edges, in all ways,

 

> cultural, blood, art, etc. That is when Saxxons and

Celts

> began to really intermingle heavily, for better or

worse, in

> Europe, and they worked out their stuff slowly to

this day.

> They are the two halves of the West, the brethren of

magic,

> the Celts, and the brethren of control, the Saxxons.

They

> are the male and female half of the West whereas

India and

> other are the male and female halves of the east

perhaps. I

> am trying to see this broad divisions at this time,

it's

> generalization, but it's helpful for understanding

basic

> directional impulses in ourselves always.

>

> It is VERY significant what happened when the two

zodiacs

> aligned. Study it. VERY interesting. I'm hinting at

a

> possible ocean of understanding for us here, I

think, maybe?

>

> Note that Germany hit the Celts "From the East".

Note that

> Ireland, the most protected by distance, a

sanctuary, was

> the least and last hit, and the last to hold a

strong

> ancient blood line and culture which shows how

Eastern the

> West used to be, how Matriarchal, how mystical, how

> feminine, which is why the dominant masculine

cultures

> letters, musical systems, thought systems, dominate

here

> today, because we were actually originally too weak,

too

> feminine, and both the Germans and Romans could have

there

> ways with us, so Rome jumped in, and Germany took it

later,

> showing that Rome had the Mars, of the two, and

Germany the

> Saturn, of the two, who are both otherwise dominant

and

> strong in nature originally, or solar.

>

> Of the two Irelands, Scotland and Ireland, Scotland

is more

> dominant, and thus, we see, Hilly, whereas Ireland

is flat

> to the point of ridiculed and jest. Do you see the

omens?

> They teach, instruct, they are real.

>

> In America, thousands of years ago, a Native stood

on the

> shore in Washington state, and looked out across the

 

> Pacific, and saw thus: Over there, in the East,

they have

> huge palaces and highly organized religious and

materially

> successful societies, but they are all part of, and

> development of personal strengths and virtues,

relationship

> with mother Earth, are less. Conformity is more.

Down South

> of me, our brothers, also are like that, they build

alot, in

> square arrangements, and they have centralization

thus,

> whereas here in the North, we do not. We struggle

more with

> nature, and know her better, for we must work with

her, and

> always have. But a new time has come, after so long,

the two

> halves will now meet. Something that is happening

now

> starting as always in the East, will soon reach us

here in

> the West, and for a long time, it shall have to be

sorted

> out in all of us, the contact, the balance, the

aligning of

> the two halves of ourselves, the circle, and square,

mother,

> father, male, female, dominating, dominated.

>

> Likewise, Druids in France studied the phenom, and

saw it

> coming, and predicted what has happened, and is

happening.

>

> We have realized: We came from father, but we are

on

> mother, and on her we depend. Father continues to

provide,

> but mother is our home, the breast we suckle. We

have both

> sides in ourselves, and must honor both. We must

straighten

> our matters each day, and then mix them up again,

when the

> Sun sets. Brush and clean your hair, then tie it in

knots

> with sticks and other things mixed in. Know your

blade, and

> put it away. Count your money, and forget about it.

>

> BOTH.

>

>

>

> --

>

>

> Das Goravani

> Roik

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Michaels,

 

> I am sorry,

 

No need to say sorry. You are not lower, I am no

higher.

 

> but I find a great deal of difference in

> the inference between a sentence that states

>something '...is "relatively" fixed...'

 

This "realatively" fixed nakshatra reference frame

fails, if you go beyond aadhitya mandala LAYER. THis

reference frame is alright for any solar

system(sahasraadhityaH of shruti--countless, but

finite in this universe--dont mix up with Cantor's

transfinite). Why it fails, when you go to higher

layer, that means, galaxy, galaxy clusters, super

galaxy et al?. This is

because these nakshatra-s(of course, black holes too)

are spinning albeit slowly wrt some axis. One spin of

galaxy is O(10^[13+k] years). What is our life span,

How far our secular history textbooks(except

puraana-s)talk about history. They talk since

greeko-roman wisdom. That means, a couple of thousand

years. Biblical certainities think that creation

started in 4004 BC. That means, just we are in

O(10^3). Where is O(10^3), when you compare

O(1O^[13+k]). Now these stars seems to be fixed when

we talk about these few thousand years history. Why

dont these history books talk about pre-early glacier

history? We talk about fixed nakshatra-s in jyotisha

and astronomy. That means they are relatively fixed.

 

,

> and one (mine) which mentions the very essence of

> change.

 

I was pointing to solar systems, and graha-s in the

same. Thus, nakshatra-s are relatively fixed wrt this

solar system.

 

> But, I also felt you were being somewhat aggressive

> (Hence, I felt the need to ... well, step in...)

>towards the previous poster, and more than

> a bit presumtive in general, when you stated that

 

Whatever I posted in the first message, is mere a

copied extract from one gentleman's posting re:

Rigveda in cosomolgy by Patrizia in THE HINDU, a

marxist daily in India, where patrizia is confused

about zodiac.

 

 

> "there is only one zodiac."

 

Let us discuss in scientific temper about this- As

every member in these assume that there are

two reference frames(viz tropical, sidereal). NO

jyotisa book aired any special zodiac, such as

SIDEREAl Zodiac. They just say BhA chakra/Zodiac.

 

Assume that Tropical zodiac is another reference

frame, here are my questions?

 

What is the length of

-Tropical day

-Tropical month

-Tropical year(define the same)

-Tropical precession of equinoxes

-Tropical yuga-s, manvantara-s, kalpa-s

-Tropical day of various graha-s in our solar system.

-Tropical years of various graha-s in our solar system

 

A scientific examination into this with physics(a

basic insight into reference frames)/astronomy would

reveal as to what is tropical zodiac.

 

> Your supposition that Vedic astrology declares that

>the universe is dynamic is at odds with the thesis

 

Fortunately, vedic astrology is a mis-nomer. veda less

vedic astrology(vedic astrology - veda) is what we

see.

 

 

>that our destinies are "locked."

 

puruSa sUktam declares that universe is

dynamic(cf:saptAsyAsan pariDhayaH). When the knowledge

of 7 pariDhis were mistaken to 7 darBhA sticks around

homakunda, these cosmological notions were probably

lost, and pandita-s coined the currently prevalent

meanings to "explain" the Vedic terms.

 

Time is cyclic, thus universe is dynamic. No

indefinite locking thus.

 

 

 

> This, in fact, was my point - I don't believe this

> to be true.

 

Using Monte-Carlo tests, given enough parameters,

tuning procedures can successfully match data to an

incorrect model, resulting in an inaccurate time scale

as well as in a false validation of that model.

 

Whatever the evidence these so-called scientists

collected for Big bang is using for inflation. A

simple analogy: Let us consider a linear diaphantine

equation L:ax+by = c, and this equation has many

intger solutions. A subset of this solution set is

also a solution of another equation M: lx+my = n,

where L and M are not parallel. This means that it is

very easy to tune the data as scanty evidence to the

present day cosmological problems.

Acceptance/Rejection of certain theory is another

issue.

 

 

 

> NONE-THE-LESS, I DO lend credence to the things I

>see from studying Vedic, as well as Chinese and

>Western astrology.

 

Vedaless vedic astrology and Indology veda-s + vedic

astrology take us to nowhere.

 

> I simply see different aspects, as I said,

> looking at each of them in turn.

 

I am not talking about astrological interpreations

based on seasons, or based on fixed nakshatra-s. I am

not a practising astrologer. Just I can understand the

analysis(like a elementary school student cross check

the integer solutions of a second degree diaphontine

eqn). jyOtiSa also falls under para vidya category.

Some people, they dont cast

horoscope(western/eastern), they are experts at

predicting accurately. I was raising "tropical vs

sidereal issue in terms of measuments", but not the

interpretations, because of para-apara vidya

categories.

 

 

> ARE being measured. I suggest you locate and read a

> couple of articles on a fairly recent modification

> to the "Big Bang" theory called "Inflation."

 

As I already stated in earlier post "bigbang

singularity to expanding universe". The so called

inflation theory is marriage of the best features of

big bang and the steady state scenarios. Again, this

inflation theory is also static, thus expanding

universe.

 

 

> They are in the April 2002 issues of "Discover" and

> "Astronomy" magazines. The theory these articles

> discuss posits that the "universe" came

> from quite literally - "nothing".

 

What is there beyond of these Universe(dark matter +

galaxy clusters + planets et al).

 

A well known science writer in USA has written that

our scientific model of the present universe may be

just as "faulty" as Columbus's map of earth. And

between modern cosmology and Vedic view, while there

are some similarities, there are great differences

too. Some examples:

 

Cosmologist's universe is static; Vedic brahmAnda

(that contains the whole universe) spins around a

central axis through 'hiraNyagarBha'.

 

Cosmologist's universe arose from an indescribable

singularity; Vedic universe from an Indescribable,

permanent, pure.

 

That One as Indescribable beyond words such as sat,

asat, raja, vyOma, mR`tyu, amR`tam, etc.; from such

Indescribable state came tama, then salilam (not

water, but primordial matter! What does modern

cosmology say? - some indescribable uniform

fundamental matter sea from a mathematical

singularity, it it not? Read the most respected

cosmologist in CalTech groping just as R`shi-s did);

then aekam mahimAn, desire, multiplicity, universe,

etc.) cf: nasadiya suktam.

 

 

The most fundamental particle, parent of all

fundamental particle we know today, arose in a uniform

sea from the singularity under tremendous heat (big

bang);

 

Vedic image is of a sea of salila -> Apa -> ka -> ma

-> la (not water of earth) with no such intense heat,

etc.

 

The notion of mandala-s and pariDhi-s is Vedic: sapta

pariDhi-s, agni-s, jihvA-s, R`Si-s, DhAma-s,

Aditya-sOma-vahni mandala-s, etc. That all celestial

bodies (not just this earth we live on) are mostly

spherical was known to mankind extremely long time

before Aristotle.

 

 

 

 

> Christianity, we are told that God >is

"everywhere", meaning that He sees and knows

>everything.

 

How do this church centric mindset justifies when they

wiped out over 100 million human beings/native

americans in the span of 50 years in-out of

hatred and biblical beliefs of racial supremacy.

 

Were not these religions see God in those 100 million

human beings?

 

Here are more examples:

 

Here are the examples: Greeks during Alexander

rampaged and murdered millions in the present Middle

East, Africa and Mediterrainean. Then the Roman

vs.Barbarian wars in Europe wiped out and/or enslaved

some more millions. There were famines too. In China

and India too there were ongoing turmoils but

relatively less than that in Europe. In the

Americas there were bloody quarrels (Maya-s, Inca-s,

native Indian intra-tribal wars, etc.). After the

onset of Christianity in Jerusalem, a new fight

started - between the followers of this new faith and

the older pagans, and millions of pagans were killed.

>From 5th century onwards it only got worse. After

Islam's entry in 7th century, all hell broke loose -

there were continuous crusades, tyranny

slavery, famines, and harm to every life element in

nature. By 15th century, Eurpoe's new barbarians were

going on their ships (target: the rich and world

famous Indica) and looting, raping, enslaving,

murdering wherever they set foot (Americas, Africa,

Asia). Several millions of native American Indians

were wiped out. Ditto in Africa. In India Muslim

armies killed over 5 million Hindus and destroyed

over 10,000 temples just as Christians had done in

Europe during their crusades and Muslims had avenged

it in Middle East and Spain. Yet it continued through

World War II when a few millions of Jews were done

with by the nazis.

 

Read Timur biography, you will notice more about

killings of humans in the name of abrahamic religions.

 

 

Thus crux of the difference between East and West

today is due to the Aristotelian logic of "no God here

 

in this universe, but God is outside of this

matter-energy ensembled universe and controls it".

There is no other fundamental difference.

 

> My own belief is that God IS everywhere, meaning

>that He literally IS everything that exists.

 

 

GOOD

 

With Regards,

VR

 

 

 

> This would explain, at least

> partially, how something

> so vast

> could come into existance from "nothing" (i.,e. -

> pure thought) and

> still

> have

> such magnificent "order". This also fits quite well

> with Mr.

> Goravani's

> note

> from several days ago - the one that started this

> discussion...

>

> And as far as your last question - well, I don't

> wish to fan flames...

>

> Best Regards,

> Martin Michaels

> -----------------------

> Sr. Systems Analyst

> Nirvana Consulting

> 317-902-9432

> gadgetcoder

>

> 'This work we do,

> It's not "rocket science"...

> It's much, MUCH harder.'

>

>

>

>

>

> venkateshwara_reddy

> [venkateshwara_reddy]

> Wednesday, September 04, 2002 3:57 PM

> gjlist

> Re: [GJ] RE: Two Zodiacs? Perhaps it's Ma

> and Pa, Again!

>

>

>

> > As I mentioned yesterday, I find that each other

> Zodiacal systems

> > has a different viewpoint, and hence, shows

> different aspects of

> our

> > "destiny". And I should point out also that as

> scientists have

> proven

> > in recent years, the galaxy IS, in fact, CHANGING

> - the stars

>

>

> Dont you see the word "relatively" fixed wrt earth

> and solar system

> in the post I appended on yesterday.

>

> Well, Vedic Cosomology declares that the

> universe(brahmaanda) is

> dynamic and is spinning around immobile

> axis(hiranyagarbha). One spin

> of our universe is called parivatsara.

>

> Temples were built on this very universe

> model(vyakta and avyakta

> universe).

>

> Our solar system, galaxy, galaxy cluster, super

> galaxy, galaxy super

> clusters are spinning and also orbiting around

> higher centre, as per

> Vedic Cosmology. For those geo-centric guys,

> seasonal calender become

> tropical zodiac, and it moves. Ah.

>

>

> Solar system also spinning? How much time it take

> for one spin? Do

> these so called scientists measure this, other than

> providing some

> scanty figure.

>

>

> The question here, geo-centric vs

> helio/galaxy/hiranyagarbha centric

> issur. Without this, we will end up in so called

> STATIC universe,

> thus bigbang singulary to expanding universe.

>

>

> Well, these constellations of stars are also part of

> some of the

> galaxy clusters? What are they?.

>

> This question leads to so called precession issues?

>

> What is the tropical precession of equinoxes? What

> is the sidereal

> precession of equinoxes? What are the measurements.

> Why dont these SO

> CALLED people in these lists probe sidereal,

> tropical durations of

> various cycles in this universe(day, year, axis

> precession, orbital

> precession, various ahOrAtri-s, varSa-s).

>

> Who is FOOLISH.

>

>

> Regards,

> VR

>

> themselves,

> > the Zodiac is changing - albeit slowly...just one

> more lesson on

> the

> > falseness of "absolutes"...

> >

> > Best Regards,

> > Martin Michaels

> >

> >

> > Venkateswara Reddy

> [venkateshwara_reddy]

> > Tuesday, September 03, 2002 8:37 PM

> > gjlist

> > Cc: vedic astrology

> > [GJ] RE: Two Zodiacs? Perhaps it's Ma and

> Pa, Again!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Appended is the post borrowed from another egroup:

> >

> > ----------------

> > On the calendar issue, I feel the word "tropical

> > zodiac" is a misnomer. Tropical (i.e., seasonal)

> > calendar originated in Greece is a primitive

> notion of

> > keeping track of days wrt seasons only. Hence

> > primitive notions such as "zodiac" moves, and so

> on.

> > Even in modern astronomy, or Inertial reference

> > frames, these notions are JOKES, but the primitive

> > MacCaulay west clings to its Greek wisdom. Let it

> be

> > so, we need not even address it...Just ignore it

> as

> > some child's prank...

> >

> > There is only one zodiac.

> >

> > Zodiac, i.e., stars in the sky are "relatively"

> fixed

> > wrt earth and aaditya mandala. That it is the

> other

> > way around is the Ptolemy mind of Greece. We must

> use

> > this "fixed" star base as the definition of the

> term

> > "zodiac". Then the misnomer goes away. The Greek &

> > western error is to see the seasonal framework as

> > "fixed".

> >

> >

> -------------------

> >

> >

> >

> > gjlist, Das Goravani <das@g...> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > It struct me now: The Vedic Zodiac, based in

> stars,

> >

> > > insensitive to, and thus needing adjustment to,

> the

> > tilt of

> > > the Earth which causes a new "perceived and

> > moveable" Zodiac

> > > to be around us always, the perceived Zodiac,

> the

> > Western

> > > Zodiac, where Matriarchy, the circle, ruled, the

> > tilt, is a

> > > circular wobble, causing seasons, changes,

> motion,

> > movement,

> > > precession backwards the Patriarchy feels,

> movement

> > forward

> > > the world feels.

> > >

> > > What is an equinox? It's a perception, which

> > happens at the

> > > whim of the circular wobble, do you see?

> > >

> > > Our "real" living life we perceive NOW is based

> on

> > Western

> > > Zodiac.

> > >

> > > The karmic original powerful and dominant Zodiac

> is

> > yet

> > > another thing.

> > >

> > > By the one we know our father, by the other, our

> > mother.

> > >

> > > This is very significant. Neither alone is

> complete.

> > >

> > > The truth hurts, to those who are it's enemies.

> > >

> > > By one half of reality alone you will not know

> your

> > current

> > > self, but only your self in relation to leaving

> this

> > world

> > > or staying in it, which may be not in your

> present

> > reality,

> > > which may be the mix, or gradual progress.

> > Patriarchy is

> > > perhaps, the dark night of the soul. For the

> night

> > isn't

> > > dark to those one with mothers dark half.

> > >

> > > Some say, "Western is better for personality".

> This

> > is a

> > > dumbed-down-over-time way of saying what is

> perhaps

> > quite

> > > true, and better said as "Western shows you your

> > position in

> > > the current relative living world of perception

> with

> > peer

> > > humans", and Vedic shows you "You position in

> > relationship

> > > to the absolute and eternal non perceived

> reality".

> > >

> > > These statements could of couse be improved

> finer,

> > more

> > > educated thinking.

> > >

> > > I find this realization quite scientific, though

> > such

> > > support I'm not going into much here. I find

> this

> > > realization quite significant because of science

> as

> > well as

> > > mystical reasons and rationale.

> > >

> > > I am "tripping on" the play of these two halves

> of

> > the

> > > whole. I am trying these days to see the basic

> Hora

> > > division, night and day, male and female, in

> things,

> > so

> > > excuse the focus there, it's my current study.

> > >

> > > I do think, Western Zodiac is more "Mother" and

> > Eastern,

> > > Sidereal, more "Father". They spawn the likened

> two

> > kinds of

> > > ways of thinking- perilistic, ominous, verse

> > malable,

> > > mutable, relative to us now here. Water, is

> > adjusting, more

> > > related to mother, and there's more water up

> North.

> > The

> > > Earth is drier, harder, more deserts exist,

> where

> > the Sun,

> > > the Patriarchy, originates from and is still

> > stronger today.

> > > The wet and emotional "new age" movement does

> not

> > arise in

> > > Lahore, or Delhi, or Cairo, or Israel's old

> guard.

> > No, it

> > > arises in Wet Eugene, with little hippies in

> > dreadlocks. I

> > > have always been a child of the Green, the

> Water,

> > the wet. I

> > > have always taken to this stuff. The way Krishna

> is,

> > so

> > > covered with flowers, girlfriends, music,

> passion,

> > cows,

> > > love and abilities chivalrously splendid, is all

> > very

> > > Celtic, and wet, and covered with turns and

> twists,

> > dirt

> > > between toes, not straight roman roads. To

> "Preach"

> > for

> > > Krishna is just about a perfect oximoron. These

> > splits of

> > > the two halves living in me have split me in

> two,

> > but that's

> > > OK, it's all good learning.

> > >

> > > The earliest authors of our time, Greek

> historians,

> > wrote of

> > > Celts "they are tall, very white and wet

> skinned".

> > >

> > > Things are white and wet where there is no Sun

> (ie,

> > ocean

> > > bottom)

> > >

> > > Celts do not digest fat properly, they need

> certain

> > fish or

> > > the oil from certain seeds, otherwise, they

> actually

> > feel

> > > bad. A developed genetic disposition to a

> certain

> > diet,

> > > showing certain karmic alignments for those with

> > eyes.

> > >

> > > And from where and whom do Celts trace their

> > ancestry?

> > >

> > > The Sun, one day, met the Moon, and after

> > subjegating it,

> > > retired in exaustion. The moon, not caring that

> it

> > was

> > > subjegated, such being it's normal state, cared

> for

> > the Sun

> > > while he slept.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hope this is interesting. I think so.

> > >

> > > By the way, according to most calculations,

> there

> > was an

> > > "alignment" around 300 AD say. This is a very

> key

> > time in

> > > history. I suggest everyone look into what was

> going

> > on on

> > > an emotional level for all of the Western world

> at

> > that

> > > time, all of Europe. Very very interesting. That

> was

> > when

> > > the great Patriarch fell out of control of the

> West,

> > Europe

> > > that is, and the "Natives" began again their old

> > ways,

> > > without Romans, but in the wake of their total

> > dominance and

> > > presence. It was a time when "Mother" got ahold

> > again of all

> > > her Western Children, without "Father" around,

> but

> > all his

> > > forts, roads, and systems were in place, never

> to

> > again go

> > > away. It was a balance point folks. Quite

> > significant one.

> > > You and I are literally living in the wake of

> those

> > events

> > > of those days. They were VERY Pivotal.

> > >

> > > For example, that IS when Germany took over

> England.

> > It did

> > > happen. Germans took over, and to this day,

> that's

> > who's

> > > there, and that's who conquered India, and the

> > world, the

> > > British, are essentially predominantly Germanic

> > people. The

> > > Celts however did at that time gain and have

> > remained since,

> > > confined in a way to the Western edges, in all

> ways,

> >

> > > cultural, blood, art, etc. That is when Saxxons

> and

> > Celts

> > > began to really intermingle heavily, for better

> or

> > worse, in

> > > Europe, and they worked out their stuff slowly

> to

> > this day.

> > > They are the two halves of the West, the

> brethren of

> > magic,

> > > the Celts, and the brethren of control, the

> Saxxons.

> > They

> > > are the male and female half of the West whereas

> > India and

> > > other are the male and female halves of the east

> > perhaps. I

> > > am trying to see this broad divisions at this

> time,

> > it's

> > > generalization, but it's helpful for

> understanding

> > basic

> > > directional impulses in ourselves always.

> > >

> > > It is VERY significant what happened when the

> two

> > zodiacs

> > > aligned. Study it. VERY interesting. I'm hinting

> at

> > a

> > > possible ocean of understanding for us here, I

> > think, maybe?

> > >

> > > Note that Germany hit the Celts "From the East".

>

> > Note that

> > > Ireland, the most protected by distance, a

> > sanctuary, was

> > > the least and last hit, and the last to hold a

> > strong

> > > ancient blood line and culture which shows how

> > Eastern the

> > > West used to be, how Matriarchal, how mystical,

> how

> > > feminine, which is why the dominant masculine

> > cultures

> > > letters, musical systems, thought systems,

> dominate

> > here

> > > today, because we were actually originally too

> weak,

> > too

> > > feminine, and both the Germans and Romans could

> have

> > there

> > > ways with us, so Rome jumped in, and Germany

> took it

> > later,

> > > showing that Rome had the Mars, of the two, and

> > Germany the

> > > Saturn, of the two, who are both otherwise

> dominant

> > and

> > > strong in nature originally, or solar.

> > >

> > > Of the two Irelands, Scotland and Ireland,

> Scotland

> > is more

> > > dominant, and thus, we see, Hilly, whereas

> Ireland

> > is flat

> > > to the point of ridiculed and jest. Do you see

> the

> > omens?

> > > They teach, instruct, they are real.

> > >

> > > In America, thousands of years ago, a Native

> stood

> > on the

> > > shore in Washington state, and looked out across

> the

> >

> > > Pacific, and saw thus: Over there, in the East,

> > they have

> > > huge palaces and highly organized religious and

> > materially

> > > successful societies, but they are all part of,

> and

> > > development of personal strengths and virtues,

> > relationship

> > > with mother Earth, are less. Conformity is more.

>

> > Down South

> > > of me, our brothers, also are like that, they

> build

> > alot, in

> > > square arrangements, and they have

> centralization

> > thus,

> > > whereas here in the North, we do not. We

> struggle

> > more with

> > > nature, and know her better, for we must work

> with

> > her, and

> > > always have. But a new time has come, after so

> long,

> > the two

> > > halves will now meet. Something that is

> happening

> > now

> > > starting as always in the East, will soon reach

> us

> > here in

> > > the West, and for a long time, it shall have to

> be

> > sorted

> > > out in all of us, the contact, the balance, the

> > aligning of

> > > the two halves of ourselves, the circle, and

> square,

> > mother,

> > > father, male, female, dominating, dominated.

> > >

> > > Likewise, Druids in France studied the phenom,

> and

> > saw it

> > > coming, and predicted what has happened, and is

> > happening.

> > >

> > > We have realized: We came from father, but we

> are

> > on

> > > mother, and on her we depend. Father continues

> to

> > provide,

> > > but mother is our home, the breast we suckle. We

> > have both

> > > sides in ourselves, and must honor both. We must

> > straighten

> > > our matters each day, and then mix them up

> again,

> > when the

> > > Sun sets. Brush and clean your hair, then tie

> it in

> > knots

> > > with sticks and other things mixed in. Know your

> > blade, and

> > > put it away. Count your money, and forget about

> it.

> > >

> > > BOTH.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > >

> > >

> > > Das Goravani

> > > Roik

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Finance - Get real-time stock quotes

> > http://finance.

> >

> >

> >

> > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat

> Sat

> > :

> gjlist-@e...

> >

> >

> >

> > Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat

> Sat

> :

> gjlist-@e...

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

> gjlist, "MICHAELS, MARTIN (AIT)"

> <mm6365@s...> wrote:

> Let us simply agree to disagree... Neither of us

> can truly "prove" our beliefs, which are the

> products of both our individual studies and

> cultural backgrounds

 

Of course, each of us is entitled to his own beliefs,

imageries, biases, or limited exposure.

 

 

Let us keep aside static(expanding) vs

dynamic(hiranyagarbha centric) issue.

 

 

This thread started with tropical zodiac vs. sidereal

zodiac.

 

Let these egroup members measure various cycles, I

mentioned in earlier post(I appended again) using this

very tropical zodiac(another reference frame).

 

 

A basic relativity thought experiment would be enough

to understand "what is reference frame".

 

-----------------

> Assume that Tropical zodiac is another reference

> frame, here are my questions?

>

> What is the length of

> -Tropical day

> -Tropical month

> -Tropical year(define the same)

> -Tropical precession of equinoxes

> -Tropical yuga-s, manvantara-s, kalpa-s

> -Tropical day of various graha-s in our solar

> system.

> -Tropical years of various graha-s in our solar

> system

>

> A scientific examination into this with physics(a

> basic insight into reference frames)/astronomy would

> reveal as to what is tropical zodiac.

>

_--------

 

 

 

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