Guest guest Posted July 12, 2002 Report Share Posted July 12, 2002 Hi folks, Just a brain-teaser for the weekend. The birth details of the native are: Born 10th Aug 1951 at 14.43 GMT at 78-54W, 36-0N. There's something in him that ain't normal at all (not for us here in India, at least!). Can someone spot it? I'll post the answer right here on Tue or earlier if someone gets it Regards, Ramapriya hubli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2002 Report Share Posted July 14, 2002 Saw the post for the quiz "There's something in him that ain't normal at all (not for us here in India, at least!)." and thought, "Oh, a sex change." Please note - this is an entirely unwarranted leap of non-logic. Nevertheless, decided to look at the chart "August 10th, 1951, at "14.43 GMT", no daylight saving, at a discrete location. I have a kanya/ virgo lagna, 15°12 with Sani/ Saturn in the lagna at 6°30; Moon/ chandra in 2nd house Tula at 25°14, rahu in the 6th at 17°52, guru/ jupiter in Meena 7th at 20°55 R, kuja/ mars in 11th cancer at 1°45, surya also in karka at 23°59 and finally in the 12th house ketu at 17°52, budha at 19°56 and shukra at 25°00. Actually, tho' that thought had flitted through as a presumptuous piece of fluff, maybe it's not entirely off the mark... A curious point - shukra's motion is 0.10 - exceptionally slow... Just about to go retrograde. Mercury/ budha is also rather slow at 0.54 - also about to go retrograde. Jupiter/ guru is already retrograde and travelling at 0.25 - quite slow and about to pick up retrograde speed. So all three benefics have slightly unusual motions. Back to a more formal examination of chart features. Lagna lord budha has gone to vyayasthana (12th), with ketu and shukra. This may indicate overseas residency or some other 'loss of self'. Budha, lord of 1st and 10th, is in the 12th with shukra, lord of 9th and 2nd. So a kendrakona yoga exists, but posited in the 12th. Worldly success/ prominence may occur overseas and/or in another 12th house environment. This raja yoga is also with ketu, so it is likely to be marred in ketu-like ways, which may include idealism, obsessiveness, toxic substances and cuts. All this occurs in simha/ leo - often indicating *visible* locations that attract an audience. Lagna lord budha is in the navamsa of virgo/ kanya, its sign of exultation. So there are likely to be some deep strengths to draw upon, which will probably mature with age. Shukra, lord of 2nd and 9th, is in Mars' navamsa of Scorpio/ vrishika. Ketu is also in the navamsa of kanya/ virgo. Moon/ chandra is in vishakha nakshatra, lord of the 11th posited in the 2nd house. Vishakha natives may be described as 'goal-oriented, opportunistic individuals who neglect their friendships'. Personally, I think this is harsh and it is not supported by my personal experience - I have several friends with vishakha moons who are uncommonly gentle and considerate. OTOH, this *particular* person may be very determined and resolute, given the activity of simha/ the 12th house. Also, the navamsha of this Moon is Taurus/ vrshab so it too has some deep reservoirs. If we take Moon as lagna, the ketu/ budha/ shukra combination in leo/ simha is in the 11th house. Sukra rules 1st and 8th, budha rules 12th and 9th. Ketu and budha are in purvaphalguni, while shukra is in uttaraphalguni. These nakshatras may both indicate licentious, lascivious ways - ***if other factors support the interpretation. >From chandra lagna, Moon, lord of 10th is posited in the 1st. Often, such individuals use their personal charisma in their profession. The 10th house holds Sun/ surya, lord of the 11th (ex Moon) and Mars/ kuja, lord of the 2nd and seventh. Sun and Mars together - sometimes indicative of egotism. Mars, as lord of the 2nd and 7th - both marakasthanas - a troublemaker. Mars - vargottama nica - a very dangerous fellow. Perhaps even twisted and scarred. Lords of the 2nd and 11th together in the 10th? Entrepreneurial aspirations? Neither Surya nor kuja is well-placed in cancer/ karka, so the undertaking may have a seedy underbelly. Any connections with the birth lagna? Is there a dissonance between the birth lagna and chandra lagna in this older person's life, or do the two views mesh? 10th lord mercury/ budha is in the 12th etc etc. What about guru/ jupiter? This jupiter is in meena, its own sign. But its navamsha is makara, suggesting that its character is marred. He rules the 4th and 7th houses ex lagna - a badhaka/ maraka lord who fully aspects the lagna. He will give confidence but perhaps not wisdom. The confidence may draw the native into embarassing/ humiliating/ miserable/ maraka experiences... >From the Moon, this Jupiter rules 3rd and 6th, posited in the 6th. Sani, lord of 6th and 5th ex lagna, is posited in the lagna. He is in a friend's house and his own navamsa - generally strong and of much better character than an afflicted saturn. His good qualities - structure/ backbone - are necessary to this person because it is only saturn that provides a useful 'cancellation' of Mars' debility. So the lord of the 6th is in the lagna and rahu is in the 6th. From the moon, 6th lord Jupiter is in his own home. Birth lagna is virgo/ kanya, 6th sign of the natural zodiac. Thus, 6th house matters seem prominent in this person's life. Along with complexities around the Mars - karaka for courage, boldness, marrow, siblings and the 6th house. Mars is notoriously nasty for kanya lagna, ruling 3rd and 8th houses. Kanya lagna is often associated with health issues and in this instance - lagna lord to the 12th etc etc - health, anxiety and even surgery *may * be recurrent themes in the life - ***if coincident with appropriate transits and so on. A few other little points before turning to timing - lord of the 5th in the lagna - the person may be bringing some special wisdom into this life; but prospects for 'live issues' of the 5th house? - not good. Malefic aspects to the 5th, and its karaka. Also, the karaka is blemished. From the Moon, rahu is in the fifth. 7th house from both lagnas is blemished. Both lagnas also suggest a loquacious life in which the money is quickly spent. (Moon in sign of venus; lord of 2nd in 12th; lord of 2nd with mercury; lord of chandra lagna 2nd - debilitated; etc) Using vimshottari dasa, this person was born into jupiter/ budha. Guru dasa lasted until almost 10 years old. The person was born at the beginning of sade sati, and in a dasa ruled by a flawed benefic who owns the 4th and 7th. Thus - tho' it may sound cliched - the person was born into some 'home issues'. The early years were not easy. If we apply the day birth/ Venus as significator for mother principle, there seem to be complications, and the alternative tools also suggest that there were difficulties with the mother/ home life. The father does not seem to have provided much emotional sustenance. ...not an ideal role model but probably quite prominent? Then came the 19 years of sani dasa to age 28/ 1980. In addition to the venus/ budha, lords 9th and 10th posited in the 12th, this chart also has lords of 4th and 5th (jupiter and saturn) in sambandha in 1st and seventh. This suggests intellectual achievement and some public acclaim. Other factors do not quash this. The expectation is that the fruits of this yoga will be most visible during sani/ guru - about 1978 to 1980. Yet this period coincided with other obstacles - firstly a sani transit of natal sun - often a difficult transit during which one must contend with conservative and sometimes obstructive forces and obligations. Secondly, in 1979 the sign of leo/ simha was crowded with transitting grahas. All in all, the transition from sani dasa to budha dasa seems like a turbulent and demanding time. Things didn't get a whole lot easier after that. Sani transitted the birth lagna, aspecting 7th and 7th lord, 1st and 10th houses. This coincided with the onset of another sadhe sati. During this time, one may feel powerless to take control of one's circumstances - trapped by events and the whims of fate. For some it may provide an impetus to undertake spiritual practises and disciplines, tho' to be frank, this seems unlikely in this chart. Perhaps some dabbling but probably more interest in shopping - "retail therapy". And music. Lots of music. Tho' this hasn't been an 'easy' life, I think the person has probably viewed it as a 'pretty good one'. In spite of obvious adversities, low points, fears and worries - an innate joie d'vivre (guru aspect on lagna, budha venus conjunction) has sustained them (him) along the way. Nevertheless, the vargottama nica kuja, lord of 3rd and 8th ex lagna, 2nd and 7th ex moon, is expected to have caused pain in this person's life. Of some solace is the fact that rahu, surya and kuja are in upachaya from the lagna, suggesting that at least some struggles result in improved outcomes. Still, kuja... Sani kuja was hopefully less virulent because kuja is in the 11th ex sani. The bhukti occurred through 1974 at the age of 22. Sani was transitting gemini/ mithuna so perhaps less difficult than the preceding transit of taurus/ vrshab. Given the fundamental struggles that this kuja forbodes, the person may also have been very vulnerable to its depradations in 1979/80. >From November '79 through about June '80, Mars hovered back and forth through Leo - perhaps wreaking its irregularly *protracted * mayhem. Since this coincides with other factors mentioned earlier, it could have been a serious turning point in the life, most probably accompanied by harsh physical events, involving 12th house losses, expenses and confinements, the sense of self and the physical body, partnerships, and release. Budha kuja occurred through 1989 at the age of 37. Kuja is in the 12th ex natal budha so more difficulties are expected. My impression is that the transits were not too diabolical at this time, although ketu transitted its natal position while mars transitted first its natal position and then leo/simha. Simultaneously, sani was transitting the natal 4th, aspecting the natal 6th (his own house) and also the natal first house and sixth lord. So health issues and anxiety are likely. The peace of mind is disturbed. As to whether this person has had extensive, *elective * surgery? I'm not sure. Let's face it, it was a pretty wild suggestion. Some factors are supportive but others do not convince me. For example, is there 'sufficient' 'loss of self'? Separative factors sani and rahu affect the lagna and its lord and the moon's lord, tho' not the moon itself. They also influence the lord of the 8th ex the moon. Separative factors Sun and lord of 12th (also Sun) influence the lord of the 8th ex lagna. Or does this reveal a fundamental misunderstanding of the motivation that might result in an uncommon or even irreversible manipulation of one's physical body? All the best, Kriya vedic astrology, "ramapriya_d" <ramapriya_d> wrote: > Hi folks, > > Just a brain-teaser for the weekend. The birth details of the native > are: Born 10th Aug 1951 at 14.43 GMT at 78-54W, 36-0N. > > There's something in him that ain't normal at all (not for us here in > India, at least!). Can someone spot it? I'll post the answer right > here on Tue or earlier if someone gets it > > Regards, > > Ramapriya > > hubli@v... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2002 Report Share Posted July 14, 2002 Dear Ramapriya, I'd like to look at the chart you gave but I'm confused about the details. By the coordinates it looks like the place of birth should fall in North Carolina in the US which is -4.0 GMT . I'm getting 4' 51 Sagittarius on the ascendant with that data. Is that the correct chartor was the time adjusted to be 0 GMT? Best Wishes, Karen Hi folks,Just a brain-teaser for the weekend. The birth details of the native are: Born 10th Aug 1951 at 14.43 GMT at 78-54W, 36-0N.There's something in him that ain't normal at all (not for us here in India, at least!). Can someone spot it? I'll post the answer right here on Tue or earlier if someone gets it :)Regards,Ramapriyahubli (AT) vsnl (DOT) com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2002 Report Share Posted July 14, 2002 The bloke was born in Durham, NC at 10.43 am, if that's what you're lookin for Regards, Ramapriya hubli (AT) vsnl (DOT) com Karen Skoler <nykaren (AT) optonline (DOT) net> wrote: Dear Ramapriya, I'd like to look at the chart you gave but I'm confused about the details. By the coordinates it looks like the place of birth should fall in North Carolina in the US which is -4.0 GMT . I'm getting 4' 51 Sagittarius on the ascendant with that data. Is that the correct chartor was the time adjusted to be 0 GMT? Best Wishes, Karen Hi folks,Just a brain-teaser for the weekend. The birth details of the native are: Born 10th Aug 1951 at 14.43 GMT at 78-54W, 36-0N.There's something in him that ain't normal at all (not for us here in India, at least!). Can someone spot it? I'll post the answer right here on Tue or earlier if someone gets it :)Regards,Ramapriyahubli (AT) vsnl (DOT) comArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Do You ? Autos - Get free new car price quotes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2002 Report Share Posted July 15, 2002 Well, the guy's gay. Regards, Ramapriya hubli (AT) vsnl (DOT) com jyotish2002au <jyotish (AT) mac (DOT) com> wrote: Saw the post for the quiz "There's something in him that ain't normal at all (not for us here in India, at least!)." andthought, "Oh, a sex change."Please note - this is an entirely unwarranted leap of non-logic.Nevertheless, decided to look at the chart "August 10th, 1951,at "14.43 GMT", no daylight saving, at a discrete location. I have a kanya/ virgo lagna, 15°12 with Sani/ Saturn in the lagna at6°30; Moon/ chandra in 2nd house Tula at 25°14, rahu in the6th at 17°52, guru/ jupiter in Meena 7th at 20°55 R, kuja/ mars in11th cancer at 1°45, surya also in karka at 23°59 and finallyin the 12th house ketu at 17°52, budha at 19°56 and shukra at 25°00.Actually, tho' that thought had flitted through as a presumptuous piece of fluff, maybe it's not entirely off the mark...A curious point - shukra's motion is 0.10 - exceptionallyslow... Just about to go retrograde. Mercury/ budha is also rather slow at 0.54 - also about to go retrograde. Jupiter/ guru is already retrograde and travelling at 0.25 - quite slow and about to pick up retrograde speed. So all three benefics have slightly unusual motions.Back to a more formal examination of chart features. Lagna lord budha has gone to vyayasthana (12th), with ketu and shukra. This may indicate overseas residency or some other 'loss of self'. Budha, lord of 1st and 10th, is in the 12th with shukra,lord of 9th and 2nd. So a kendrakona yoga exists, but posited in the 12th. Worldly success/ prominence may occur overseas and/or in another 12th house environment. This raja yoga is also with ketu, so it is likely to be marred in ketu-like ways, which may include idealism, obsessiveness, toxic substances and cuts. All this occurs in simha/ leo - often indicating *visible* locations that attract an audience.Lagna lord budha is in the navamsa of virgo/ kanya, its sign of exultation. So there are likely to be some deep strengths to draw upon, which will probably mature with age. Shukra, lord of 2nd and 9th, is in Mars' navamsa of Scorpio/ vrishika. Ketu is alsoin the navamsa of kanya/ virgo. Moon/ chandra is in vishakha nakshatra, lord of the 11th posited in the 2nd house. Vishakha natives may be described as 'goal-oriented, opportunistic individuals who neglect their friendships'. Personally, I think this is harsh and it is not supported by my personal experience - I have several friends with vishakha moons who are uncommonly gentle and considerate. OTOH, this *particular* person may be very determined and resolute, given the activity of simha/ the 12th house. Also, the navamsha of this Moon is Taurus/ vrshab so it too has some deep reservoirs.If we take Moon as lagna, the ketu/ budha/ shukra combination in leo/ simha is in the 11th house. Sukra rules 1st and 8th, budha rules 12th and 9th. Ketu and budha are in purvaphalguni, while shukra is in uttaraphalguni. These nakshatras may both indicate licentious, lascivious ways - ***if other factors support the interpretation.From chandra lagna, Moon, lord of 10th is posited in the 1st. Often, such individuals use their personal charisma in their profession. The 10th house holds Sun/ surya, lord of the 11th (ex Moon) and Mars/ kuja, lord of the 2nd and seventh. Sun and Mars together - sometimes indicative of egotism. Mars, as lord of the 2nd and 7th - both marakasthanas - a troublemaker. Mars - vargottama nica - a very dangerous fellow. Perhaps even twisted and scarred. Lords of the 2nd and 11th together in the 10th? Entrepreneurial aspirations? Neither Surya nor kuja is well-placed in cancer/ karka, so the undertaking may have a seedy underbelly.Any connections with the birth lagna? Is there a dissonance between the birth lagna and chandra lagna in this older person's life, or do the two views mesh? 10th lord mercury/ budha is in the 12th etc etc.What about guru/ jupiter? This jupiter is in meena, its own sign. But its navamsha is makara, suggesting that its character is marred. He rules the 4th and 7th houses ex lagna - a badhaka/ maraka lord who fully aspects the lagna. He will give confidence but perhaps not wisdom. The confidence may draw the native into embarassing/ humiliating/ miserable/ maraka experiences... From the Moon, this Jupiter rules 3rd and 6th, posited in the 6th.Sani, lord of 6th and 5th ex lagna, is posited in the lagna. He is in a friend's house and his own navamsa - generally strong and of much better character than an afflicted saturn. His good qualities - structure/ backbone - are necessary to this person because it is only saturn that provides a useful 'cancellation' of Mars' debility. So the lord of the 6th is in the lagna and rahuis in the 6th. From the moon, 6th lord Jupiter is in his own home. Birth lagna is virgo/ kanya, 6th sign of the natural zodiac. Thus, 6th house matters seem prominent in this person's life.Along with complexities around the Mars - karaka for courage, boldness, marrow, siblings and the 6th house. Mars is notoriously nasty for kanya lagna, ruling 3rd and 8th houses. Kanya lagna is often associated with health issues and in this instance - lagna lord to the 12th etc etc - health, anxietyand even surgery *may * be recurrent themes in the life - ***if coincident with appropriate transits and so on.A few other little points before turning to timing - lord of the5th in the lagna - the person may be bringing some special wisdom into this life; but prospects for 'live issues' of the 5th house? - not good. Malefic aspects to the 5th, and its karaka. Also, the karaka is blemished. From the Moon, rahu is in the fifth. 7th house from both lagnas is blemished. Both lagnas also suggest a loquacious life in which the money is quickly spent. (Moon in sign of venus; lord of 2nd in 12th; lord of 2nd with mercury; lord of chandra lagna 2nd - debilitated; etc)Using vimshottari dasa, this person was born into jupiter/ budha. Guru dasa lasted until almost 10 years old. The person was born at the beginning of sade sati, and in a dasa ruled by a flawed benefic who owns the 4th and 7th. Thus - tho' it may sound cliched - the person was born into some 'home issues'. The early years were not easy. If we apply the day birth/ Venus as significator for mother principle, there seem to be complications, and the alternative tools also suggest that there were difficulties with the mother/ home life. The father does not seem to have provided much emotional sustenance. ...not an ideal role model but probably quite prominent?Then came the 19 years of sani dasa to age 28/ 1980. In addition to the venus/ budha, lords 9th and 10th posited in the 12th, this chart also has lords of 4th and 5th (jupiter and saturn) in sambandha in 1st and seventh. This suggests intellectual achievement and some public acclaim. Other factors do not quash this. The expectation is that the fruits of this yoga will be most visible during sani/ guru - about 1978 to 1980. Yet this period coincided with other obstacles - firstly a sani transit of natal sun - often a difficult transit during which one must contend with conservative and sometimes obstructive forces and obligations. Secondly, in 1979 the sign of leo/ simha was crowded with transitting grahas. All in all, the transition from sani dasa to budha dasa seems like a turbulent and demanding time.Things didn't get a whole lot easier after that. Sani transittedthe birth lagna, aspecting 7th and 7th lord, 1st and 10th houses. This coincided with the onset of another sadhe sati. During this time, one may feel powerless to take control of one's circumstances - trapped by events and the whims of fate. For some it may provide an impetus to undertake spiritual practises and disciplines, tho' to be frank, this seems unlikely in thischart. Perhaps some dabbling but probably more interest in shopping - "retail therapy". And music. Lots of music.Tho' this hasn't been an 'easy' life, I think theperson has probably viewed it as a 'pretty good one'. In spite ofobvious adversities, low points, fears and worries - an innate joie d'vivre (guru aspect on lagna, budha venus conjunction) has sustained them (him) along the way.Nevertheless, the vargottama nica kuja, lord of 3rd and 8th ex lagna, 2nd and 7th ex moon, is expected to have caused pain in this person's life. Of some solace is the fact that rahu, suryaand kuja are in upachaya from the lagna, suggesting that at least some struggles result in improved outcomes.Still, kuja... Sani kuja was hopefully less virulent because kuja is in the 11th ex sani. The bhukti occurred through 1974 at the age of 22. Sani was transitting gemini/ mithuna so perhaps less difficult than the preceding transit of taurus/ vrshab. Given the fundamental struggles that this kuja forbodes, the person may also have been very vulnerable to its depradations in 1979/80. From November '79 through about June '80, Mars hovered back and forth through Leo - perhaps wreaking its irregularly *protracted * mayhem. Since this coincides with other factors mentioned earlier, it could have been a serious turning point in the life, most probably accompanied by harsh physical events, involving 12th house losses, expenses and confinements, the sense of self and the physical body, partnerships, and release.Budha kuja occurred through 1989 at the age of 37. Kuja is in the 12th ex natal budha so more difficulties are expected. My impression is that the transits were not too diabolical at this time, although ketu transitted its natal position while mars transitted first its natal position and then leo/simha. Simultaneously, sani was transitting the natal 4th, aspecting the natal 6th (his own house) and also the natal first house and sixth lord. So health issues and anxiety are likely. The peace of mind is disturbed.As to whether this person has had extensive, *elective * surgery? I'm not sure. Let's face it, it was a pretty wild suggestion. Some factors are supportive but others do not convince me. For example, is there 'sufficient' 'loss of self'? Separative factors sani and rahu affect the lagna and its lord and the moon's lord, tho' not the moon itself. They also influence the lord of the 8th ex the moon. Separative factors Sun and lord of 12th (also Sun) influence the lord of the 8th ex lagna.Or does this reveal a fundamental misunderstanding of the motivation that might result in an uncommon or even irreversible manipulation of one's physical body?All the best, Kriyavedic astrology, "ramapriya_d" <ramapriya_d> wrote:> Hi folks,> > Just a brain-teaser for the weekend. The birth details of the native > are: Born 10th Aug 1951 at 14.43 GMT at 78-54W, 36-0N.> > There's something in him that ain't normal at all (not for us here in > India, at least!). Can someone spot it? I'll post the answer right > here on Tue or earlier if someone gets it > > Regards,> > Ramapriya> > hubli@v...Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Do You ? Autos - Get free new car price quotes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2002 Report Share Posted July 17, 2002 Thankyou for that. It would be nice to know a little more of the story however I don't want to be intrusive. As I mentioned before, I leapt to the initial conclusion based solely on your use of language but when I looked at the chart, it did not refute it entirely. There was also another coincidence... It reminded me of another chart. Lagna 6°30 simha, rahu 21°33 kanya, guru 8°18 vrishika, chandra 25°27 vrishika, sani 12°10 dhanus, surya 18°05 kumbha, budha 1°57 meen, sukra 14°26 meena, ketu 21°33 and kuja 16°06 vrshab. You'll notice the immediate similarity – the budha/ sukra/ ketu conjunction. I guess if we each trawled through more deeply, we'd find some other shared attributes. Anyway, I met this person about eight years ago – haven't seen them since so don't know how things unfurled in the intervening years. At the time, I knew that they had `a story' and I was in very early days of astrological study. I entered the chart details into my computer and then started prattling to `buy time'. In this instance, I launched into a blurb about the vimshottari system. blah, blah, `well, theoretically, you would have had a significant change in your life about Dec 20th, 1991. That's when sun's period began.' A pause. "Yes. That's the day I decided to change my sex." Cough splutter on my part. `Oh, um, usually the change from one dasa to another is not quite so specific. But I guess we should stick with this birthtime.' (There had been about a 2 hour uncertainty as far as I recollect.) He/ she had come to the decision that his/ her body did not have the shape of his/ her real gender and so he/she commenced the long and arduous journey to change it. This involves extensive counselling, followed by preparatory hormone courses which may continue for years. A final operation(s) may then be performed, depending upon choice and available finance. He/she had been on hormones for a year or two at that point, yearned for `the final chop' but was not financially able to afford it. One of the toughest things for this person had been confronting the fact that once he/ she commenced hormones, all chance of having children would be gone, even if `the apparatus' was still in place. Also, that trans-gender people, pre- and post-operative, have extremely high rates of suicide. So the risk factors are always `in your face'. ...Without even beginning to think about the hiv/ aids/ lifestyle factors, the emotional trauma that tends to arise with various family members etcetera. As this is the only `trans-gender' chart I have (that I know about!), I can't make any comparisons. But there is another coincidence... As soon as I entered the data, I realised that it was the same date as a close friend. The two of them were born on different sides of the world but nevertheless, similarities. The second chart has a mesha lagna – 23°14; chandra is 16°54 vrishika. (I'm omitting the actual birth data for discretionary reasons, however it's obviously fairly easy to `triangulate' the general parameters.) The second person had some turbulence and professional frustrations in earlier life but went on to complete a law degree and take the bar, become chief of staff for a government minister, and is now a senior manager with an international consulting firm. So superficially, entirely different lives. Nevertheless, along with the contrasts, they share some experiences. The second person is female and in her earlier years was so prone to pregnancy, in spite of contraception, and so convinced that she didn't want to have children, that she convinced a doctor to tie her tubes at an unusually young age. She later changed her mind, and was duly warned that the reversing procedure had only a slim chance of success. She turned out to be `the exception' – pregnant again within a few weeks. The child is now about ten years old, healthy and intelligent. So, both have had issues around `procreation' and both have or have intended to undergo surgery to `take control' of their reproductive tissue. Another point of contact – music. The second person was an aspiring opera singer who moved into policy/ business; the first - when I met him/ her – was completing training as a sound engineer (music industry). Also, neither would describe themselves as gay or even borderline. For one it was a sense of `general identity' and for the other, a conviction that their body was `wrong'/ not `their's'. Considering the subject more broadly - tho' people are supposed to `know' if they are gay or straight, I think for some, it is not so clear. The social milieu may influence the way that a person (and their associates) interprets behaviour or interests that diverge from `a norm'. Some cultures (often the `eastern' ones) are more tolerant of gentleness in male behaviour; the English are relatively famed for their cross-dressing (non-gay) upper classes; simultaneously gay rights have become so prominent in some environments that people can succumb to peer group pressure – `it's easier to be gay than an eccentric straight'. Over the years, a number of people have tried to pin down `gay astrology'; all I know, is that I couldn't pick it if my life depended upon it. What has especially interested me about these charts is what we may learn about `the sense of self' - when `it' or bits of it is subjected to significant separative influences (sani, rahu, sun, lord of the 12th). Hope this has been as fascinating a journey for you as it has for me, Kriya vedic astrology, Ramapriya D <ramapriya_d> wrote: > > Hi, > Well, the guy's gay. > Regards, > Ramapriya > hubli@v... > > jyotish2002au <jyotish@m...> wrote: Saw the post for the quiz "There's something in him that ain't > normal at all (not for us here in India, at least!)." and > thought, "Oh, a sex change." > > Please note - this is an entirely unwarranted leap of non-logic. > > Nevertheless, decided to look at the chart "August 10th, 1951, > at "14.43 GMT", no daylight saving, at a discrete location. I have > a kanya/ virgo lagna, 15°12 with Sani/ Saturn in the lagna at > 6°30; Moon/ chandra in 2nd house Tula at 25°14, rahu in the > 6th > at 17°52, guru/ jupiter in Meena 7th at 20°55 R, kuja/ mars in > 11th cancer at 1°45, surya also in karka at 23°59 and finally > in > the 12th house ketu at 17°52, budha at 19°56 and shukra at > 25°00. > > Actually, tho' that thought had flitted through as a presumptuous > piece of fluff, maybe it's not entirely off the mark... > > A curious point - shukra's motion is 0.10 - exceptionally > slow... Just about to go retrograde. Mercury/ budha is also > rather slow at 0.54 - also about to go retrograde. Jupiter/ guru is > already retrograde and travelling at 0.25 - quite slow and about to > pick up retrograde speed. So all three benefics have slightly > unusual motions. > > Back to a more formal examination of chart features. Lagna lord > budha has gone to vyayasthana (12th), with ketu and shukra. > This may indicate overseas residency or some other 'loss of > self'. Budha, lord of 1st and 10th, is in the 12th with shukra, > lord of 9th and 2nd. So a kendrakona yoga exists, but posited in > the 12th. Worldly success/ prominence may occur overseas > and/or in another 12th house environment. This raja yoga is > also with ketu, so it is likely to be marred in ketu-like ways, which > may include idealism, obsessiveness, toxic substances and > cuts. All this occurs in simha/ leo - often indicating *visible* > locations that attract an audience. > > Lagna lord budha is in the navamsa of virgo/ kanya, its sign of > exultation. So there are likely to be some deep strengths to draw > upon, which will probably mature with age. Shukra, lord of 2nd > and 9th, is in Mars' navamsa of Scorpio/ vrishika. Ketu is also > in the navamsa of kanya/ virgo. > > Moon/ chandra is in vishakha nakshatra, lord of the 11th posited > in the 2nd house. Vishakha natives may be described as > 'goal-oriented, opportunistic individuals who neglect their > friendships'. Personally, I think this is harsh and it is not > supported by my personal experience - I have several friends > with vishakha moons who are uncommonly gentle and > considerate. OTOH, this *particular* person may be very > determined and resolute, given the activity of simha/ the 12th > house. Also, the navamsha of this Moon is Taurus/ vrshab so it > too has some deep reservoirs. > > If we take Moon as lagna, the ketu/ budha/ shukra combination in > leo/ simha is in the 11th house. Sukra rules 1st and 8th, budha > rules 12th and 9th. Ketu and budha are in purvaphalguni, while > shukra is in uttaraphalguni. These nakshatras may both > indicate licentious, lascivious ways - ***if other factors support > the interpretation. > > From chandra lagna, Moon, lord of 10th is posited in the 1st. > Often, such individuals use their personal charisma in their > profession. The 10th house holds Sun/ surya, lord of the 11th > (ex Moon) and Mars/ kuja, lord of the 2nd and seventh. Sun and > Mars together - sometimes indicative of egotism. Mars, as lord > of the 2nd and 7th - both marakasthanas - a troublemaker. > Mars - vargottama nica - a very dangerous fellow. Perhaps > even twisted and scarred. Lords of the 2nd and 11th together in > the 10th? Entrepreneurial aspirations? Neither Surya nor kuja > is well-placed in cancer/ karka, so the undertaking may have a > seedy underbelly. > > Any connections with the birth lagna? Is there a dissonance > between the birth lagna and chandra lagna in this older person's > life, or do the two views mesh? 10th lord mercury/ budha is in > the 12th etc etc. > > What about guru/ jupiter? This jupiter is in meena, its own sign. > But its navamsha is makara, suggesting that its character is > marred. He rules the 4th and 7th houses ex lagna - a badhaka/ > maraka lord who fully aspects the lagna. He will give confidence > but perhaps not wisdom. The confidence may draw the native > into embarassing/ humiliating/ miserable/ maraka experiences... > From the Moon, this Jupiter rules 3rd and 6th, posited in the 6th. > Sani, lord of 6th and 5th ex lagna, is posited in the lagna. He is > in a friend's house and his own navamsa - generally strong and > of much better character than an afflicted saturn. His good > qualities - structure/ backbone - are necessary to this person > because it is only saturn that provides a useful 'cancellation' of > Mars' debility. So the lord of the 6th is in the lagna and rahu > is in the 6th. From the moon, 6th lord Jupiter is in his own home. > Birth lagna is virgo/ kanya, 6th sign of the natural zodiac. Thus, > 6th house matters seem prominent in this person's life. > Along with complexities around the Mars - karaka for courage, > boldness, marrow, siblings and the 6th house. Mars is > notoriously nasty for kanya lagna, ruling 3rd and 8th houses. > Kanya lagna is often associated with health issues and in this > instance - lagna lord to the 12th etc etc - health, anxiety > and even surgery *may * be recurrent themes in the life - ***if > coincident with appropriate transits and so on. > > A few other little points before turning to timing - lord of the > 5th in the lagna - the person may be bringing some special > wisdom into this life; but prospects for 'live issues' of the 5th > house? - not good. Malefic aspects to the 5th, and its karaka. > Also, the karaka is blemished. From the Moon, rahu is in the > fifth. 7th house from both lagnas is blemished. Both lagnas > also suggest a loquacious life in which the money is quickly > spent. (Moon in sign of venus; lord of 2nd in 12th; lord of 2nd > with mercury; lord of chandra lagna 2nd - debilitated; etc) > > Using vimshottari dasa, this person was born into jupiter/ budha. > Guru dasa lasted until almost 10 years old. The person was > born at the beginning of sade sati, and in a dasa ruled by a > flawed benefic who owns the 4th and 7th. Thus - tho' it may > sound cliched - the person was born into some 'home issues'. > > The early years were not easy. If we apply the day birth/ Venus > as significator for mother principle, there seem to be > complications, and the alternative tools also suggest that there > were difficulties with the mother/ home life. The father does not > seem to have provided much emotional sustenance. ...not an > ideal role model but probably quite prominent? > > Then came the 19 years of sani dasa to age 28/ 1980. In > addition to the venus/ budha, lords 9th and 10th posited in the > 12th, this chart also has lords of 4th and 5th (jupiter and saturn) > in sambandha in 1st and seventh. This suggests intellectual > achievement and some public acclaim. Other factors do not > quash this. The expectation is that the fruits of this yoga will be > most visible during sani/ guru - about 1978 to 1980. Yet this > period coincided with other obstacles - firstly a sani transit of > natal sun - often a difficult transit during which one must > contend with conservative and sometimes obstructive forces and > obligations. Secondly, in 1979 the sign of leo/ simha was > crowded with transitting grahas. All in all, the transition from > sani dasa to budha dasa seems like a turbulent and demanding > time. > > Things didn't get a whole lot easier after that. Sani transitted > the birth lagna, aspecting 7th and 7th lord, 1st and 10th houses. > This coincided with the onset of another sadhe sati. During this > time, one may feel powerless to take control of one's > circumstances - trapped by events and the whims of fate. For > some it may provide an impetus to undertake spiritual practises > and disciplines, tho' to be frank, this seems unlikely in this > chart. Perhaps some dabbling but probably more interest in > shopping - "retail therapy". And music. Lots of music. > > Tho' this hasn't been an 'easy' life, I think the > person has probably viewed it as a 'pretty good one'. In spite of > obvious adversities, low points, fears and worries - an innate > joie d'vivre (guru aspect on lagna, budha venus conjunction) has > sustained them (him) along the way. > > Nevertheless, the vargottama nica kuja, lord of 3rd and 8th ex > lagna, 2nd and 7th ex moon, is expected to have caused pain in > this person's life. Of some solace is the fact that rahu, surya > and kuja are in upachaya from the lagna, suggesting that at least > some struggles result in improved outcomes. > > Still, kuja... Sani kuja was hopefully less virulent because kuja is > in the 11th ex sani. The bhukti occurred through 1974 at the age > of 22. Sani was transitting gemini/ mithuna so perhaps less > difficult than the preceding transit of taurus/ vrshab. Given the > fundamental struggles that this kuja forbodes, the person may > also have been very vulnerable to its depradations in 1979/80. > From November '79 through about June '80, Mars hovered back > and forth through Leo - perhaps wreaking its irregularly > *protracted * mayhem. Since this coincides with other factors > mentioned earlier, it could have been a serious turning point in > the life, most probably accompanied by harsh physical events, > involving 12th house losses, expenses and confinements, the > sense of self and the physical body, partnerships, and release. > > Budha kuja occurred through 1989 at the age of 37. Kuja is in > the 12th ex natal budha so more difficulties are expected. My > impression is that the transits were not too diabolical at this > time, although ketu transitted its natal position while mars > transitted first its natal position and then leo/simha. > Simultaneously, sani was transitting the natal 4th, aspecting the > natal 6th (his own house) and also the natal first house and sixth > lord. So health issues and anxiety are likely. The peace of mind > is disturbed. > > As to whether this person has had extensive, *elective * surgery? > I'm not sure. Let's face it, it was a pretty wild suggestion. Some > factors are supportive but others do not convince me. For > example, is there 'sufficient' 'loss of self'? > > Separative factors sani and rahu affect the lagna and its lord and > the moon's lord, tho' not the moon itself. They also influence the > lord of the 8th ex the moon. Separative factors Sun and lord of > 12th (also Sun) influence the lord of the 8th ex lagna. > > Or does this reveal a fundamental misunderstanding of the > motivation that might result in an uncommon or even irreversible > manipulation of one's physical body? > > All the best, Kriya > > vedic astrology, "ramapriya_d" <ramapriya_d> > wrote: > > Hi folks, > > > > Just a brain-teaser for the weekend. The birth details of the > native > > are: Born 10th Aug 1951 at 14.43 GMT at 78-54W, 36-0N. > > > > There's something in him that ain't normal at all (not for us > here in > > India, at least!). Can someone spot it? I'll post the answer right > > here on Tue or earlier if someone gets it > > > > Regards, > > > > Ramapriya > > > > hubli@v... > > > Sponsor > > > > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-@e... > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > Autos - Get free new car price quotes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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