Guest guest Posted July 3, 2002 Report Share Posted July 3, 2002 I thought someone might be interested in knowing I recently found samvatsara mentioned in BPHS (chapter 80, Lost Horoscopy). By reading it one gets the impression that year=samvatsara at least in this context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2002 Report Share Posted July 3, 2002 Vyam Vysadevaya Namah ------------------ Dear Jan(i think), I was thinking about the exact same thing yesterday, and felt there must be an error somewhere. There are indeed 12 Samvatsara in a 60 year cycle, so if this method given by Parasara relates to finding this 1 samvatsara, then we still need to pick 1 out of 5 years. This doesn't make sense at all. Varahimihira gives a valid and understanding way of figuring this out; "If the first Drekkana of a sign begin to rise, the sign occupied by Jupiter at the time of birth will be the Prasna Lagna itself. If the 2nd Drekkana, then Jupiter will be in the 5th sign from Prasna Lagna. Similarly the 3rd drekkana corresponds to the 9th from Prasna Lagna." Do some thinking on the above, and you finally decide that the Dwadasamsa of Prasna Lagna actually corresponds to the sign of Jupiter at birth. Varahamihira and his son, have done some good work in Nashta Jatakam. Best wishes, Visti. - cjjohans vedic astrology Wednesday, July 03, 2002 10:08 PM [vedic astrology] Samvatsara in BPHS I thought someone might be interested in knowing I recently found samvatsara mentioned in BPHS (chapter 80, Lost Horoscopy). By reading it one gets the impression that year=samvatsara at least in this context. Sponsor ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2002 Report Share Posted July 3, 2002 Samvatsara -- wrt Nakshatras. This was well known by Vedic Ancients. Now the meanings got distorted. > I thought someone might be interested in > knowing I recently found samvatsara > mentioned in BPHS (chapter 80, Lost Horoscopy). > By reading it one gets the impression that > year=samvatsara at least in this context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2002 Report Share Posted July 4, 2002 vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...> wrote: > Vyam Vysadevaya Namah > ------------------ > Dear Jan(i think), > I was thinking about the exact same thing yesterday, and felt there must be an error somewhere. > > There are indeed 12 Samvatsara in a 60 year cycle, so if this method given by Parasara relates to finding this 1 samvatsara, then we still need to pick 1 out of 5 years. This doesn't make sense at all. > What I understand is samvatsara (one may of course have different opinions) is a Jupiter year, which is slightly longer than a solar year. Shyamasundara Dasa mentions this definition on his website. There are 5 x 12 such samvatsaras in a 60 year cycle. (The 60 year cycle seems best explained by that Jupiter and Saturn conjunct in about the same place after 60 years). What doesn't make sense to me in that chapter, is that it implies a samvatsara is divided into two ayanas. But one can see it also like that the samvatsara is only the indicator for the year, and not the actual year. It doesn't mention any year conversion however. On a related note I found in the Kurma Purana a description where the year is divided into two ayanas (therefore solar). http://161.58.183.97/puranas/puranas.asp?id=4&page=3 The reason why that ideal 360 day solar year no longer works, may be that the Earth's orbit has changed since creation. There is at least a ~100,000 year cycle shift between elliptical and circular orbit, and it seems that the Earth is also somewhat pushed outwards by the Sun, which would cause a longer year to my understanding http://solar-center.stanford.edu/FAQ/Qsunendstate.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2002 Report Share Posted July 4, 2002 > There are indeed 12 Samvatsara in a 60 year cycle, so if this method given by Parasara relates to finding this 1 samvatsara, then we still need to pick 1 out of 5 years. This doesn't make sense at all. > Later on it's btw explained that this samvatsara is one year in the 12 year cycle, but which 12 year cycle it's about should be estimated based on the age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2002 Report Share Posted July 4, 2002 Vyam Vysadevaya Namah -------------------------- Dear Jaan, Yes the Ayana is ½ year, akin to the northern/southern course of the Sun called Uttara and Dakshin Ayana respectively. This is in one of the first lessons of Varahimihira. The guidelines for Nasta Jatakam are; 1. Find the position of Jupiter, this indicates the year. 2. Find the Season(rtu), and Solar Month. 2a. Some can also find the lunar month. 3. Find the Lunar; Rasi, Nakshetra and Tithi respectively. 4. Find the lagna. I find the greatest obstacles in points; 2a and 3, which are unclear to me. Some would even say that the methods of finding many of these placements are contradictory, however i believe this to be untrue, and am sure we just need a propper understanding of each principle. These principles can be found in Bphs, Saraveli, Brihat Jataka, Hora Sara, and there are some more clues in Sarvath Chintamani as well as other classics. Best wishes, Visti. - cjjohans vedic astrology Thursday, July 04, 2002 12:24 PM [vedic astrology] Re: Samvatsara in BPHS vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...> wrote: > Vyam Vysadevaya Namah > ------------------ > Dear Jan(i think), > I was thinking about the exact same thing yesterday, and felt there must be an error somewhere. > > There are indeed 12 Samvatsara in a 60 year cycle, so if this method given by Parasara relates to finding this 1 samvatsara, then we still need to pick 1 out of 5 years. This doesn't make sense at all. > What I understand is samvatsara (one may of course have different opinions) is a Jupiter year, which is slightly longer than a solar year. Shyamasundara Dasa mentions this definition on his website. There are 5 x 12 such samvatsaras in a 60 year cycle. (The 60 year cycle seems best explained by that Jupiter and Saturn conjunct in about the same place after 60 years). What doesn't make sense to me in that chapter, is that it implies a samvatsara is divided into two ayanas. But one can see it also like that the samvatsara is only the indicator for the year, and not the actual year. It doesn't mention any year conversion however. On a related note I found in the Kurma Purana a description where the year is divided into two ayanas (therefore solar). http://161.58.183.97/puranas/puranas.asp?id=4&page=3 The reason why that ideal 360 day solar year no longer works, may be that the Earth's orbit has changed since creation. There is at least a ~100,000 year cycle shift between elliptical and circular orbit, and it seems that the Earth is also somewhat pushed outwards by the Sun, which would cause a longer year to my understanding http://solar-center.stanford.edu/FAQ/Qsunendstate.html ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2002 Report Share Posted July 4, 2002 vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...> wrote: > Vyam Vysadevaya Namah > -------------------------- > Dear Jaan, Name I have been using is Carl for the record. > Yes the Ayana is ½ year, akin to the northern/southern course of the Sun called Uttara and Dakshin Ayana respectively. > This is in one of the first lessons of Varahimihira. > > The guidelines for Nasta Jatakam are; > > 1. Find the position of Jupiter, this indicates the year. > 2. Find the Season(rtu), and Solar Month. > 2a. Some can also find the lunar month. > 3. Find the Lunar; Rasi, Nakshetra and Tithi respectively. > 4. Find the lagna. > > I find the greatest obstacles in points; 2a and 3, which are unclear to me. Some would even say that the methods of finding many of these placements are contradictory, however i believe this to be untrue, and am sure we just need a propper understanding of each principle. > The month one gets from the Prasna Lagna (too), based on which half of the Drekkana it's in. (Drekkana divides a sign in three parts of 10 degrees). The actual chart has to be calculated after one has gotten the time, from that one gets rasi and nakshatra. The tithi case is a bit unclear to me too, but the example in my translation clarifies it. It also says that if ritus and ayanas don't match, one should use different planets for the ritus. Don't know if this would always work in practise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2002 Report Share Posted July 4, 2002 Vyam Vysadevaya Namah -------------------------- Dear Carl, The Rtu substitution works fine as far as my little experience goes. In 6 months, only 3 seasons(rtu's) can pass, and if a rtu that doesn't pass in the said 6 months comes to pass, then a substitution is necessary. Best wishes, Visti. - cjjohans vedic astrology Thursday, July 04, 2002 8:11 PM [vedic astrology] Re: Samvatsara in BPHS vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...> wrote: > Vyam Vysadevaya Namah > -------------------------- > Dear Jaan, Name I have been using is Carl for the record. > Yes the Ayana is ½ year, akin to the northern/southern course of the Sun called Uttara and Dakshin Ayana respectively. > This is in one of the first lessons of Varahimihira. > > The guidelines for Nasta Jatakam are; > > 1. Find the position of Jupiter, this indicates the year. > 2. Find the Season(rtu), and Solar Month. > 2a. Some can also find the lunar month. > 3. Find the Lunar; Rasi, Nakshetra and Tithi respectively. > 4. Find the lagna. > > I find the greatest obstacles in points; 2a and 3, which are unclear to me. Some would even say that the methods of finding many of these placements are contradictory, however i believe this to be untrue, and am sure we just need a propper understanding of each principle. > The month one gets from the Prasna Lagna (too), based on which half of the Drekkana it's in. (Drekkana divides a sign in three parts of 10 degrees). The actual chart has to be calculated after one has gotten the time, from that one gets rasi and nakshatra. The tithi case is a bit unclear to me too, but the example in my translation clarifies it. It also says that if ritus and ayanas don't match, one should use different planets for the ritus. Don't know if this would always work in practise. Sponsor ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2002 Report Share Posted July 5, 2002 Om Namo Bhagavate Vaasudevaya Dear Visti and Jaan Don't attempt to make the lunar month coincide with Ritu..it will not work. ritu's are based on Sankranti's and are made to synchronise with the Makar sankranti. The Vishnu Purana talks about a Tropical calendar that is the Tropical zodiac where the Ritu's are based on the phenomena experienced in the Antariksha i.e. space and happenings within this solar system whereas the Niryana zodiac gos beyond and considers the swarga as well and hence the ayanamsa has also got to be considered. Seasons are based on the transit of the Sun in the tropical sunsigns. This is further extended into the niryana zodiac for the purpose of jyotish and natal horoscopy etc. With best wishes Sanjay Rath http://sanjayrath.tripod.com Visti Larsen [vishnu] Thursday, July 04, 2002 4:53 PM vedic astrology Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Samvatsara in BPHS Vyam Vysadevaya Namah -------------------------- Dear Jaan, Yes the Ayana is ½ year, akin to the northern/southern course of the Sun called Uttara and Dakshin Ayana respectively. This is in one of the first lessons of Varahimihira. The guidelines for Nasta Jatakam are; 1. Find the position of Jupiter, this indicates the year. 2. Find the Season(rtu), and Solar Month. 2a. Some can also find the lunar month. 3. Find the Lunar; Rasi, Nakshetra and Tithi respectively. 4. Find the lagna. I find the greatest obstacles in points; 2a and 3, which are unclear to me. Some would even say that the methods of finding many of these placements are contradictory, however i believe this to be untrue, and am sure we just need a propper understanding of each principle. These principles can be found in Bphs, Saraveli, Brihat Jataka, Hora Sara, and there are some more clues in Sarvath Chintamani as well as other classics. Best wishes, Visti. - cjjohans vedic astrology Thursday, July 04, 2002 12:24 PM [vedic astrology] Re: Samvatsara in BPHS vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...> wrote: > Vyam Vysadevaya Namah > ------------------ > Dear Jan(i think), > I was thinking about the exact same thing yesterday, and felt there must be an error somewhere. > > There are indeed 12 Samvatsara in a 60 year cycle, so if this method given by Parasara relates to finding this 1 samvatsara, then we still need to pick 1 out of 5 years. This doesn't make sense at all. > What I understand is samvatsara (one may of course have different opinions) is a Jupiter year, which is slightly longer than a solar year. Shyamasundara Dasa mentions this definition on his website. There are 5 x 12 such samvatsaras in a 60 year cycle. (The 60 year cycle seems best explained by that Jupiter and Saturn conjunct in about the same place after 60 years). What doesn't make sense to me in that chapter, is that it implies a samvatsara is divided into two ayanas. But one can see it also like that the samvatsara is only the indicator for the year, and not the actual year. It doesn't mention any year conversion however. On a related note I found in the Kurma Purana a description where the year is divided into two ayanas (therefore solar). http://161.58.183.97/puranas/puranas.asp?id=4&page=3 The reason why that ideal 360 day solar year no longer works, may be that the Earth's orbit has changed since creation. There is at least a ~100,000 year cycle shift between elliptical and circular orbit, and it seems that the Earth is also somewhat pushed outwards by the Sun, which would cause a longer year to my understanding http://solar-center.stanford.edu/FAQ/Qsunendstate.html ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2002 Report Share Posted August 27, 2002 >Don't attempt to make the lunar month coincide with >Ritu..it will not work.ritu's are based on >Sankranti's and are made to synchronise with the Makar >sankranti. The Vishnu Purana talks about a Tropical >calendar that is the Tropical zodiac where the Ritu's >are based on the phenomena experienced in >the Antariksha i.e. space and happenings within this >solar system whereas the Niryana zodiac gos beyond >and considers the swarga as well and hence the >ayanamsa has also got to be considered. Seasons are >based on the transit of the Sun in the tropical >sunsigns. This is further extended into the niryana >zodiac for the purpose of jyotish and natal horoscopy >etc. >With best wishes >Sanjay Rath >http://sanjayrath.tripod.com Dear Sanjay and learned members, SankrAnti-s or maasa-s are nakSatra based. Seasons or r`tu-s precess due to earth axis precession - one round wrt any earth orbit reference point in 24,000 seasonal years. R`tu-s or seasons are experienced on earth, not in antarikSa (which in Vedic cosmology is the edge of any of the 7 pariDhi-s or mandala-s)! Ayana-s, r`tu-s, seasons - all go together. R`tu-s and seasons are divisions within the two ayana-s. The so-called Jupiter year is not 12 earth tropical years. It is some 10% less - big error in the long run! Samvatsara on earth has no connection to Jupiter at all, although this error had crept in long ago. I also see the confusion in these threads - "if it is ayana, it is solar", etc. Then what is the difference between tropical and solar? What is a solar year? What is the reference point in a solar year? If the year got longer in #s of days, the day-night cycle also got longer - earth spinning on its axis slows down just as it going around Sun slows down even now. But even 10-20,000 years ago it was not much far of from present speeds of motions to cause 4-5 days of difference. Regarding the following paragraphy in these threads: >"There is at least a ~100,000 year cycle shift >between elliptical and circular orbit, and it seems >that the Earth is also somewhat pushed outwards >by the Sun, which would cause a longer year to my >understanding http://solar->center.stanford.edu/FAQ/Qsunendstate.html" by cjohns. This 100K cycle has no logical proof, except constructing proof based on simulations(paleoclimatology), rock layers, sediments, oxygen isotopes et al. Milankovitch theorists were proposed this. A Causality Problem for Milankovitch- http://muller.lbl.gov/papers/Causality.pdf Read the above cited paper and various opinions of scientists. You will notice that milankovitch cycles are not true in terms of exactitude(milankovitch-obliquity cycle ~40K years, eccentricity cycle ~100K years). Ancient hindu shaastra-s talk about eccentricity cycles too. Best Regards, VR Visti Larsen [vishnu@l...] Thursday, July 04, 2002 4:53 PM vedic astrology Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Samvatsara in BPHS Vyam Vysadevaya Namah -------------------------- Dear Jaan, Yes the Ayana is year, akin to the northern/southern course of the Sun called Uttara and Dakshin Ayana respectively. This is in one of the first lessons of Varahimihira. The guidelines for Nasta Jatakam are; 1. Find the position of Jupiter, this indicates the year. 2. Find the Season(rtu), and Solar Month. 2a. Some can also find the lunar month. 3. Find the Lunar; Rasi, Nakshetra and Tithi respectively. 4. Find the lagna. I find the greatest obstacles in points; 2a and 3, which are unclear to me. Some would even say that the methods of finding many of these placements are contradictory, however i believe this to be untrue, and am sure we just need a propper understanding of each principle. These principles can be found in Bphs, Saraveli, Brihat Jataka, Hora Sara, and there are some more clues in Sarvath Chintamani as well as other classics. Best wishes, Visti. - cjjohans vedic astrology Thursday, July 04, 2002 12:24 PM [vedic astrology] Re: Samvatsara in BPHS vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...> wrote: > Vyam Vysadevaya Namah > ------------------ > Dear Jan(i think), > I was thinking about the exact same thing yesterday, and felt there must be an error somewhere. > > There are indeed 12 Samvatsara in a 60 year cycle, so if this method given by Parasara relates to finding this 1 samvatsara, then we still need to pick 1 out of 5 years. This doesn't make sense at all. > What I understand is samvatsara (one may of course have different opinions) is a Jupiter year, which is slightly longer than a solar year. Shyamasundara Dasa mentions this definition on his website. There are 5 x 12 such samvatsaras in a 60 year cycle. (The 60 year cycle seems best explained by that Jupiter and Saturn conjunct in about the same place after 60 years). What doesn't make sense to me in that chapter, is that it implies a samvatsara is divided into two ayanas. But one can see it also like that the samvatsara is only the indicator for the year, and not the actual year. It doesn't mention any year conversion however. On a related note I found in the Kurma Purana a description where the year is divided into two ayanas (therefore solar). http://161.58.183.97/puranas/puranas.asp?id=4&page=3 The reason why that ideal 360 day solar year no longer works, may be that the Earth's orbit has changed since creation. There is at least a ~100,000 year cycle shift between elliptical and circular orbit, and it seems that the Earth is also somewhat pushed outwards by the Sun, which would cause a longer year to my understanding http://solar-center.stanford.edu/FAQ/Qsunendstate.html Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance. 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