Jyotish in Old and New Testament - Renee

July 23, 2001

Hello Renee,

Thank you for the book recommendation. I will read it if the

opportunity comes my way.

The old testament is a difficult book to read. It is highly esoteric

in parts. The knowledge is very well hidden. I agree that on the

surface many parts are harsh, as much of it has to do with strife and

war, but the work still has great spiritual value.

> There is only ONE God and his name is Yahweh (yeah right).

The Jews concept of God is advanced in ways. For example they will

not depict their God, nor name him. This is so that God retains more

of an unattributed form, not limited by human narrowminded

conceptions. In the Bible, God can never be perceived by humans.

Their minds cannot fathom him.

> Man, in his arrogance, shaped the old Testament with statements

> such as God giving man 'dominion' over the Earth/animals

Genesis is one of the most difficult books of the old testament to

understand. It introduces important concepts. The part that you are

quoting from is the initial chapter on the creation of the world.

Here the world is made in seven days which correspond to the 7

planets controlling all things on Earth. That the world is

constructed in the seven days, shows that the world is composed

entirely of the 7 energies of the planets.

However, if someone just reads this portion of the text, such

deductions cannot be drawn, without knowledge that has been taught

through a qualified teacher. And then the book can only degrade into

either literal or speculative interpretations. The old testament is

filled with such things, and is very guarded in revealing these

secrets.

Consider the later Revelations from the New Testament, in which

things are stated more explicitly, perhaps due to the deterioration

of the initiated passage of knowledge. In the following it is

specifically stated that there are "seven spirits" that God has sent

into the Earth and they are composed of agni tattwa. Here also

the "seven spirits" are related directly to the "seven stars".

Revelation 3:1 Revelation 3 Revelation 3:1-2 And unto the angel of

the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven

Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast

a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Revelation 4:5 Revelation 4 Revelation 4:4-6 And out of the throne

proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven

lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits

of God.

Revelation 5:6 Revelation 5 Revelation 5:5-7 And I beheld, and, lo,

in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst

of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns

and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into

all the earth.

Compare this to passages in the Rig Veda where the seven rays of the

Sun and Agni form the denizens of the Earth. Likewise there are many

similar esoteric concepts between the Bible and the Vedas.

The Old Testament makes a fascinating study, especially the first two

parts of Genesis and Exodus. They contain more of the seemingly

nonsensical stories that are encrypted with the most secrets. The New

Testament by itself doesn't appear (to me) to be as interesting, but

if the gnostic texts are read in conjunction with canonicial ones, a

much richer understanding of the Christian, as well as Judaic

religion can be gained. The concepts that are gained from the joint

understanding of the two are very similar, many identical to those

from India.

See the following from the Gospel of Thomas:

3 Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's)

kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede

you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you. When

you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand

that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know

yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

This clearly defines the concept that all people are Atman, a part of

God, that is a fundamental tenent of the Hindu faith. This is only

hinted at in the Canonical texts where a relationship is drawn

between humans and God through the trinity of being, God, Jesus, and

the Holy Spirit in people.

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you

make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the

upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single

one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when

you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot

in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will

enter [the kingdom]."

This shows the division of being into Shiva/Shakti that is the

differentiation causing material creation. Once this is realized,

then moksha is attained, and the original state is returned to.

Jesus said, "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking

for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.

Now as to whether the Old Testament contains hidden knowledge - Jesus

said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of

knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they

allowed those who want to enter to do so.

> Suddenly Mother Earth (Goddess) is now a whore....and Mother Mary

> is now a virgin...

Initially the Divine mother was well represented in the Christian

religion, and this can be seen in the gnostic texts. The Holy spirit

is in fact Shakti herself and this is explained fairly explicitly. In

the gnostic texts the feminine aspect of God is given as much

importance, as the quote about duality above shows. This is gone into

more depth in the following quotations from the Apocryphon of John, a

key gnostic text. First is a description of the male aspect of God,

and then the Divine Mother:

"He is the invisible Spirit, of whom it is not right to think of him

as a god, or something similar. For he is more than a god, since

there is nothing above him, for no one lords it over him. For he does

not exist in something inferior to him, since everything exists in

him. For it is he who establishes himself. He is eternal, since he

does not need anything. For he is total perfection. He did not lack

anything, that he might be completed by it; rather he is always

completely perfect in light. He is illimitable, since there is no one

prior to him to set limits to him. He is unsearchable, since there

exists no one prior to him to examine him. He is immeasurable, since

there was no one prior to him to measure him. He is invisible, since

no one saw him. He is eternal, since he exists eternally. He is

ineffable, since no one was able to comprehend him to speak about

him. He is unnameable, since there is no one prior to him to give him

a name."

"And his thought performed a deed and she came forth, namely she who

had appeared before him in the shine of his light. This is the first

power which was before all of them (and) which came forth from his

mind, She is the forethought of the All - her light shines like his

light - the perfect power which is the image of the invisible,

virginal Spirit who is perfect. The first power, the glory of

Barbelo, the perfect glory in the aeons, the glory of the revelation,

she glorified the virginal Spirit and it was she who praised him,

because thanks to him she had come forth. This is the first thought,

his image; she became the womb of everything, for it is she who is

prior to them all, the Mother-Father, the first man, the holy Spirit,

the thrice-male, the thrice-powerful, the thrice-named androgynous

one, and the eternal aeon among the invisible ones, and the first to

come forth.

The following is the gospel of Thomas online, a brief collection of

the sayings of Jesus, that many believe predates the text of the

Bible currently in vogue.

http://www.miseri.edu/users/davies/thomas/Trans.htm

And this is a large database of the gnostic texts:

http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html

Best of luck,

Alex J

July 24, 2001

In a message dated 7/23/01 10:58:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

lostinmotion writes:

<< Thank you for the book recommendation. I will read it if the

opportunity comes my way.

[me]

No problem:o) I hope you do find the time sometime.

[you]

The old testament is a difficult book to read. It is highly esoteric

in parts. The knowledge is very well hidden. I agree that on the

surface many parts are harsh, as much of it has to do with strife and

war, but the work still has great spiritual value.

[me]

I agree with you there definately. However, keep in mind it was rewritten at

least a few times by not so spiritually-inclined people. We have no idea all

that they left out not to mention the material they reshaped according to the

'agenda' of their time period. On the upside, thank goodness much of the

esoteric knowledge was 'hidden' so that it didn't get eliminated.

[you]

The Jews concept of God is advanced in ways. For example they will

not depict their God, nor name him. This is so that God retains more

of an unattributed form, not limited by human narrowminded

conceptions. In the Bible, God can never be perceived by humans.

Their minds cannot fathom him.

[me]

God is actually a personal experience. The devotee and the object of his/her

devotion. Thou art formless...yet I choose to worship thee in THIS form

(whatever it is...name it what you will). From my experience...God is all

around us and within us and we as individuals can experience Him (or Her) in

many ways. Just looking into the eyes of your brother...one can see and feel

God. This 'removal' of the Divine from the undeserving and exalting him out

of our reach/perception seems to not help in this chaotic world. Making him

....even a piece of him...accessible brings the Divine into our day to day

lives. The divine in me honors the divine in you:o) I'm sorry but man in

his infinite ignorance and arrogance has shaped how you and I 'should' see or

not see the Divine when really it (the divine) expresses himself TO us as

individuals. The judge may see the courtroom as his temple...justice as his

God...and the law as his bible and because of his standards and principles

'upholds' the law to the best of his ability. The doctor may see the Divine

in the way he tries to save a life with medicine as his bible and 'the cure'

as the ultimate. The musician listens to the music of the spheres as his

heavenly choir. See? So God may be unnameable BECAUSE it's up to 'us' to

express and feel our soul lesson in how we see him for this lifetime even if

it's a HER or an IT...another Face of the Nameless. I think assigning why

the jews did what they did is our feeble attempt at explaining something that

probably by accident occurred in our favor. They may have been Pharisees

trying to 'lock up' the mysteries for their own hidden agenda's but really

they gave us a gift by not naming the ultimate Mystery (which is not so

mysterious to me). By the way, even Christ 'lost it' in the temple <grin>.

[you]

> Man, in his arrogance, shaped the old Testament with statements

> such as God giving man 'dominion' over the Earth/animals

Genesis is one of the most difficult books of the old testament to

understand. It introduces important concepts. The part that you are

quoting from is the initial chapter on the creation of the world.

Here the world is made in seven days which correspond to the 7

planets controlling all things on Earth. That the world is

constructed in the seven days, shows that the world is composed

entirely of the 7 energies of the planets.

However, if someone just reads this portion of the text, such

deductions cannot be drawn, without knowledge that has been taught

through a qualified teacher. And then the book can only degrade into

either literal or speculative interpretations. The old testament is

filled with such things, and is very guarded in revealing these

secrets.

Consider the later Revelations from the New Testament, in which

things are stated more explicitly, perhaps due to the deterioration

of the initiated passage of knowledge. In the following it is

specifically stated that there are "seven spirits" that God has sent

into the Earth and they are composed of agni tattwa. Here also

the "seven spirits" are related directly to the "seven stars".

[me]

One can get into the Kaballah very easily here...yes I know the symbolism.

Long time student of BOTA here (Builders of the Adytum). My point was more

on the spirit of the text and not the technical information. The masses tune

into the 'spirit' and can be misguided by it...by whoever shaped it according

to their agenda as man is not infallible and subject to his

passions/desires...right? Look at all that has been dumped on 'woman' (who

supposedly brought man down) merely by the spirit of the text and look at all

the suffering imposed by those who would want power over a group of people.

Their agenda was and is clear. Get my point? And yes I've heard the karmic

thing till I want to puke "as was done by you...you will now suffer"...give

me a break...sometimes (most times) NEW karma is formed by one selfish group

over another when the original group did nothing to deserve it. Who are we

to know?