Post fact analysis of Aurobindo's chart - a classic example

[Guest guest]

Namaste to Group members,

 

I made two points earlier about post-fact analysis. I chose to

explain what I meant using an analysis of Jayalalita's chart.

Here is another example that will illustrate what I mean even

more clearly.

 

1. In post-fact analysis, it is possible to pick and choose

techniques to make any event seem plausible. This

is because of the very nature of the analysis, not

because of any dishonesty on the part of the

astrologer (in my opinion).

 

2. Birth times of famous people, esp of people born very

long ago, are uncertain. This makes post-fact

analysis even more questionable. This is because

not only can one choose any technique, but one can

also change the birthtime around to fit the events.

With all this changing around, nobody can tell

whether the chart shows the event, or whether the

event is being projected into the chart by the

astrologer (since he cannot escape the reality of the

event).

 

Here is an example:

 

Narasimha gave a detailed analysis of Aurobindo's chart,

especially his D-60 Moola dasa. Using this, Narasimha was

able to practically explain all major events of Aurobindo's chart.

_______

Some excerpts from Narasimha's post about Aurobindo - I

have only quoted some parts that mention the D-60, it would

get too long if I quoted everything!

 

The birthdata I have for Sri Aurobindo is:

 

August 15, 1872

Time: 5:19:00

Time Zone: 5:53:00 (East of GMT)

Longitude: 88 E 20' 00"

Latitude: 22 N 30' 00"

 

D-60 is: lagna & Saturn in Li; Moon in Sc; Venus in Cp;

Jupiter & Rahu in Aq; Mars in Ta; Mercury in Cn; Sun &

Ketu in Le.

 

Mercury is the 9th and 12th lord in 10th in D-60. If the

9th and 12th lord is in 10th, it can give activities related to

religion. It can also give a career in a foreign land. As a

functional benefic in 10th, Mercury may have given given

a good career in past life. However, Mercury is in

Karaala-Danshtramsa (a demonic being with dreadful

teeth). As the 9th lord in Karala-Danshtramsa, Mercury

may have made him live abroad. In Mercury's Moola

dasa, it continued.

 

Mercury, who stood for some good karma in past life (9th

lord in 10th in D-60), made him shine in education and

languages, but he gave a lot of foreign influence. In rasi

chart also, Mercury is 12th lord and shows being away

from motherland.

 

In D-60, Venus is lagna and 8th lord in Indvamsa (meaning

Moon - good). In past life, he stood for overall development

(lagna), finding roots (lagna), yogic sadhana (8th), status in

society (Venus in AL) and enmities (Venus in A6). As a

continuation of activities in past life, Venus gave similar

activities in this life too!

 

In rasi chart, Saturn is with Moon and denotes renunciation.

In D-60, he is exalted in Libra lagna, giving Sasa yoga. He is in

the favorable Seetalamsa (meaning cool).

_______

 

Now, Sri Sanjay Rath, in his 'Crux of Vedic Astrology, gives

Aurobindo's birth chart and data (page 163). He gives a time

of 5:00 AM.

 

To quote Pandit Rath:

 

Jupiter is also in the ascendant in the Navamsa showing a

genius intellect. In the Navamsa, the fifth house has the

exalted Moon and Rahu (this would NOT be true with the

time Narasimha took).

 

In the Siddhamsa (D-24), there is a powerful Gajakesari

Yoga in the ascendant. Gajakesari yoga in the first/seventh

house can give a lot of fame and in the Siddhamsa, this fame

comes due to knowledge or learning. Jupiter as the ascendant

and fourth lord shows good attachment towards learning. It

is also the subhapati (dispositor of the Moon) placed in the

ascendant showing that the mind is inclined towards learning.

The Sun is in a fixed own sign Leo in the ninth house with

the nodes (foreign influence) and gave him higher studies for

competitive examinations (ICS) in a foreign land. Venus

generates a Vipareeta Rajyoga with Saturn in the third house

(conjunction of the lords of sixth and third houses in the third).

The conjunction of Badhakesh Mercury with this combination

removes all badhak (obstacles) in the path and the education

is uninterrupted. The noteworthy placement is that of Mars

the fifth lord ruling knowledge in the twelfth house in Scorpio.

It was during Mars dasa that his learning of the occult and

mysticism, spiritualism and yoga started in a strong way. This

was supported by his most ardent disciple 'Sri Ma' who was

born in Aries ascendant of Mars.

 

Note: none of the above would hold with Narasimha's time,

since the D-24 lagna changes as well.

_______

 

On the one hand, we have Narasimha's explanation of the

D-60 of Aurobindo using 5:19. On the other, we have Sanjay

Rath's explanation of Aurobindo's D-24 using 5:00 !!

 

Needless to say, both the D-24 and the D-60 change if we take

a birth time of 5:00 AM versus 5:19 AM (try and calculate the

chart to find out).

 

How does one explain this? Both Narasimha and Sanjay Rath

are using the same ayanamsa, and obviously Aurobindo could

not have been born at two separate times!! To me, the only

explanation is that both of them are looking at Aurobindo's

chart with the awareness that this is Aurobindo's chart.

Hence, they tend to project what they know about Aurobindo

into the chart, and focus on the astrological combinations

that strengthen what they already KNOW about Aurobindo.

 

If anybody has any other reasonable explanation, I will be

very indebted to them for letting myself and the group

members know.

 

I remain,

 

Mahalinga Iyer

[Guest guest]

Namaste Mr Mahalinga Iyer,

 

In my opinion, it is not appropriate to bring two astrologers to

debate their analyses on a public forum like this So That when one of

them looses Your Argument Will be The Winner.And if both succeed to

defend their analyses then you can laugh at Astrology(as it is

practiced)as if it is a joke!! Remember, restraint is a virtue.

 

Please note that, time and again Mr Narasimha has stressed on many of

these same factors you mention in your mails!! And his solution for

the problem is to identify one factor, which is the strongest

indicator for that event/angle etc., High accuracies in predictions

are the need of the hour! (One may say that 70% accuracy is Ok for me,

but remember for the client each failure of an astrologer is 100% in

effect.) Learning several techniques need not confuse one if (s)he

knows where/when to use them.

 

WHAT I am (we are?) trying to do on this list is to learn such points

at my leisure. More serious pursuers are on forums like 'Varahamihira

class' spending perhaps a lot longer time.

 

The posting of Mr Narasimha on Jayalalithaa (official name)is one of

many such postings, where the accent is mainly on the technique And

the example is there only because it is a hot topic.

 

I certainly learned something about Shastiamsas from the posting.

 

I trust to gain more from this list.

 

regards

viswanadham

[Guest guest]

Namaste Vishwanatham,

 

Thank you for the kind words of advice. Your approach is to learn in

a non-critical, accepting way. Mine is based on the belief that what

cannot stand critical scrutiny cannot be learned as is. There is

room for both our types in this world. Perhaps we each have a little

to learn from one another - being either very critical, or very

accepting cannot be very good. I remind you of Sri Ramakrishna

Paramahamsa, who urged all spiritual aspirants to test their would-be

Guru repeatedly before accepting them. I presume the same can be

applied to any guru of astrology, or astrological technique.

 

As you can see daily on this very group, there are people who are

relying on astrology (to some degree, atleast) in making important

life changing decisions - marriage, divorce, change of career etc.

In my opinion, it would be a disservice to astrology if one is not

critical about each and every astrologer, and each and every

technique.

 

>In my opinion, it is not appropriate to bring two astrologers to

>debate their analyses on a public forum like this So That when

>one of them looses Your Argument Will be The Winner.And if both

>succeed to defend their analyses then you can laugh at Astrology

>(as it is practiced)as if it is a joke!! Remember, restraint is a

>virtue.

 

It is not my intention to try and get Narasimha and Sanjay Rath to

defend their analyses. The point I am trying to make is this:

 

The D-24 changes every 5 minutes.

The D-60 changes every 2 minutes.

 

Yet, using a birth time that is NINETEEN minutes apart, using the

SAME timezone and SAME ayanamsa, Narasimha and Sanjay Rath

are able to analyse Aurobindo's chart and map it to his known past.

 

Does this, or does this not support my argument that:

 

In post-fact analyses, astrologers map what they KNOW, or believe

about the subject, to the subject's charts. They pick techniques

and characteristics of the chart that support the conclusions they

have already made, and ignore the rest.

 

Please do not mistake my point as being directed against any

individual. I emphasise that that is not so.

 

I remain,

 

Mahalinga Iyer