Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 Namaste, I have a few fundamental questions to KP followers on the logical foundation of KP system: (1) Constellation subs are a fundamental part of KP system. These subs are based on Vimsottari dasa. What if a special nakshatra dasa (e.g. Panchottari dasa) is the most appropriate nakshatra dasa in a chart and gives better results than Vimsottari dasa? Are we going to find subs, nakshatra lords and sub-lords using that dasa? Why only Vimsottari dasa? Though Vimsottari dasa is undoubtedly a very important and generally applicable dasa, there are many other dasas taught by Parasara. He must've taught them only because they are important in some cases. (2) In fact, sometimes people use nakshatras and subs in judging transits of all planets. In that case, why are we only taking subs w.r.t. Vimsottari dasa? If you tie the use of subs with dasa, then finding subs w.r.t. the dasa being used makes sense. If one uses subs to judge the results of dasas and antardasas in Vimsottari dasa, then tying the computation of subs to that dasa makes philosophical sense. But, if we are using subs in transits and not with any dasa, why should we use Vimsottari dasa formula in finding subs and not any other dasa? The whole framework is shaky if this question is not answered satisfactorily. (3) In the light of these fundamental issues, one questions comes to mind - is there anything anywhere in classics suggesting the subs as they are used by Meena and Krishnamoorthy? Or is there something in any tradition? Or is it just original research of a few people? (4) Does anyone have the birthdata of Sri Krishnamoorthy? May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2001 Report Share Posted July 15, 2001 Aum SatyaVedaangaayah Namaha, Namaste Narasimha, I shall take a stab at it, as I have was involved with the KP System initially. > (1) Constellation subs are a fundamental part of KP system. These > subs are based on Vimsottari dasa. What if a special nakshatra dasa > (e.g. Panchottari dasa) is the most appropriate nakshatra dasa in a > chart and gives better results than Vimsottari dasa? Are we going to > find subs, nakshatra lords and sub-lords using that dasa? Why only > Vimsottari dasa? Although I have not researched on this, it is my opinion that if the Nakshatra structure is different, then the subs etc should be consistent with it. So I would find the subs etc according to Nakshatra Subs. Although a variant of Vimshottari Dasa, Utpanna Dasa works well with KP too or should it the other way around, KP works well with Utpanna Dasa too!!!! I must say that I have not seen either KP or his followers use Utpanna Dasa or any other variations or conditional dasas of Sage Parasara. > > Though Vimsottari dasa is undoubtedly a very important and generally > applicable dasa, there are many other dasas taught by Parasara. He > must've taught them only because they are important in some cases. > > (2) In fact, sometimes people use nakshatras and subs in judging > transits of all planets. In that case, why are we only taking subs > w.r.t. Vimsottari dasa? If you tie the use of subs with dasa, then > finding subs w.r.t. the dasa being used makes sense. If one uses subs > to judge the results of dasas and antardasas in Vimsottari dasa, then > tying the computation of subs to that dasa makes philosophical sense. > But, if we are using subs in transits and not with any dasa, why > should we use Vimsottari dasa formula in finding subs and not any > other dasa? The whole framework is shaky if this question is not > answered satisfactorily. I agree with you, here. > > (3) In the light of these fundamental issues, one questions > comes to mind - is there anything anywhere in classics suggesting > the subs as they are used by Meena and Krishnamoorthy? Or is there > something in any tradition? Or is it just original research of a few > people? > At this stage, I must say, that it is an original research, as I have not fully explored the texts. But I must also point out that most of his researches have a base/foundation in the texts. For example, the famous KP Ruling planets is derived from the combination of Sage Satyacharyas rules and some other rules found in Sage Varahamihira's Brihat Jaataka. This was disclosed in one of the later books released by his son K. Hariharan. So I won't be surprised if we find these info in some obscure books somewhere. > (4) Does anyone have the birthdata of Sri Krishnamoorthy? > Sure, I am giving his birth details from books written by his son K. Hariharan's book K.P & N.P(Notable People). November 01 1908, 12.11p.m IST Thiruvaiyaru,10N48 79E15. Using Krishnamurthi Ayanamsa his Lagna is 11d 00m Cp, with Mo @ 11d 52m Cp!!! May Krishnamurthi Bless us in our Perseverances, Regards Narayan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2001 Report Share Posted July 15, 2001 Jai Sri Ram, One way to look at the subs is as the D9 of the nakshatra. We can then get a whole harmonic series of subs complementing the harmonics of the Rashi. Hare Rama Krishna, Steve Sufian --- Narayan Iyer <narayaniyer wrote: > Aum SatyaVedaangaayah Namaha, > > Namaste Narasimha, > > I shall take a stab at it, as I have was involved > with the KP System initially. > > > (1) Constellation subs are a fundamental part of > KP system. These > > subs are based on Vimsottari dasa. What if a > special nakshatra dasa > > (e.g. Panchottari dasa) is the most appropriate > nakshatra dasa in a > > chart and gives better results than Vimsottari > dasa? Are we going to > > find subs, nakshatra lords and sub-lords using > that dasa? Why only > > Vimsottari dasa? > > Although I have not researched on this, it is my > opinion that if the Nakshatra structure is > different, then the subs etc should be consistent > with it. So I would find the subs etc according to > Nakshatra Subs. > > Although a variant of Vimshottari Dasa, Utpanna Dasa > works well with KP too or should it the other way > around, KP works well with Utpanna Dasa too!!!! I > must say that I have not seen either KP or his > followers use Utpanna Dasa or any other variations > or conditional dasas of Sage Parasara. > > > > > > Though Vimsottari dasa is undoubtedly a very > important and generally > > applicable dasa, there are many other dasas taught > by Parasara. He > > must've taught them only because they are > important in some cases. > > > > (2) In fact, sometimes people use nakshatras and > subs in judging > > transits of all planets. In that case, why are we > only taking subs > > w.r.t. Vimsottari dasa? If you tie the use of subs > with dasa, then > > finding subs w.r.t. the dasa being used makes > sense. If one uses subs > > to judge the results of dasas and antardasas in > Vimsottari dasa, then > > tying the computation of subs to that dasa makes > philosophical sense. > > But, if we are using subs in transits and not with > any dasa, why > > should we use Vimsottari dasa formula in finding > subs and not any > > other dasa? The whole framework is shaky if this > question is not > > answered satisfactorily. > > I agree with you, here. > > > > > > (3) In the light of these fundamental issues, one > questions > > comes to mind - is there anything anywhere in > classics suggesting > > the subs as they are used by Meena and > Krishnamoorthy? Or is there > > something in any tradition? Or is it just original > research of a few > > people? > > > > At this stage, I must say, that it is an original > research, as I have not fully explored the texts. > But I must also point out that most of his > researches have a base/foundation in the texts. For > example, the famous KP Ruling planets is derived > from the combination of Sage Satyacharyas rules and > some other rules found in Sage Varahamihira's Brihat > Jaataka. This was disclosed in one of the later > books released by his son K. Hariharan. So I won't > be surprised if we find these info in some obscure > books somewhere. > > > (4) Does anyone have the birthdata of Sri > Krishnamoorthy? > > > > Sure, I am giving his birth details from books > written by his son K. Hariharan's book K.P & > N.P(Notable People). > > November 01 1908, 12.11p.m IST Thiruvaiyaru,10N48 > 79E15. > > Using Krishnamurthi Ayanamsa his Lagna is 11d 00m > Cp, with Mo @ 11d 52m Cp!!! > > May Krishnamurthi Bless us in our Perseverances, > > Regards > Narayan > > Get personalized email addresses from Mail http://personal.mail./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2001 Report Share Posted July 15, 2001 Dear Narayan, > Although I have not researched on this, it is my opinion that > if the Nakshatra structure is different, then the subs etc > should be consistent with it. So I would find the subs etc > according to Nakshatra Subs. What you say is logical. But Krishnamoorthy's formula of subs is based on Vimsottari dasa formula only. I haven't seen any Krishnamoorthy follower use any other dasa or any other dasa structure for finding subs. > At this stage, I must say, that it is an original research, as > I have not fully explored the texts. But I must also point out > that most of his researches have a base/foundation in the texts. > For example, the famous KP Ruling planets is derived from the > combination of Sage Satyacharyas rules and some other rules > found in Sage Varahamihira's Brihat Jaataka. This was disclosed > in one of the later books released by his son K. Hariharan. So > I won't be surprised if we find these info in some obscure books > somewhere. Brihat Jataka and Satya Jataka are not obscure works. They are very well-known works. Of course, the concept of ruling planets for each house is not new and KP's ruling planets are an extension of what one finds in classics. This does not need any "disclosing". What needs disclosing is whether the division of nakshatras into subs and their use as Krishnamoorthy resorted to has ANY basis anywhere. I did not find any supporting mention in either Brihat Jataka or Satya Jataka or any other classic I read. Thank you for Sri Krishnamoorthy's birthdata. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2001 Report Share Posted July 15, 2001 Dear Steve, I cannot agree. Subs correspond to antardasas in a nakshatra's Vimsottari dasa and have nothing to do with the 9 navamsas in the nakshatra. Nine navamsas in the nakshatra have an equal length, but subs have lengths proportional to dasa years. OTOH, nine antardasas in Tribhagi Vimsottari dasa have an equal length and THEY correspond to the nine navamsas! > Jai Sri Ram, > One way to look at the subs is as the D9 of the > nakshatra. We can then get a whole harmonic series of > subs complementing the harmonics of the Rashi. > Hare Rama Krishna, > Steve Sufian May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2001 Report Share Posted July 16, 2001 Jai Rama Krishna, Thanks, Narasimha for adding precision. My thought was a ballpark one. The idea is that there is a rational and classical basis for using subs and this provides a foundation for treating KP as something more than something that worked for Krishnamurti but that doesn't need to be taken as part of legitimate jyotish. Hare Ram, Steve --- pvr wrote: > Dear Steve, > > I cannot agree. Subs correspond to antardasas in a > nakshatra's > Vimsottari dasa and have nothing to do with the 9 > navamsas in the > nakshatra. Nine navamsas in the nakshatra have an > equal length, but > subs have lengths proportional to dasa years. > > OTOH, nine antardasas in Tribhagi Vimsottari dasa > have an equal > length and THEY correspond to the nine navamsas! > > > Jai Sri Ram, > > One way to look at the subs is as the D9 of the > > nakshatra. We can then get a whole harmonic series > of > > subs complementing the harmonics of the Rashi. > > Hare Rama Krishna, > > Steve Sufian > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha > > > Get personalized email addresses from Mail http://personal.mail./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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