Divorce and remarriage to the ex-spouse

July 7, 2001

Dear friends,

Please find enclosed two charts.

1)A is ex-wife and her chart is as per the birth time given by her

mother.

a)Her father died on Nov 24,1994 in USA.

b)Date of marriage -Feb 7,1998 in India.

c)Date of divorce -April 9,2001.

2)B is ex husband and time of birth is approximate.

a)His father died when he was in college.

It seems the guy wants to get back with the lady but the lady and her

mother can't make up their minds if he should be trusted again.

I am aware of one odd couple who got together after few years but they

were never legally divorced.

How do we see in a chart if the couple will get back together again or

not,

secondly trustworthiness of a person.

Thanking in advance,

Preet

P.S. :-As per COVA page 291 para 3,second marriage should be seen from

2nd house and 8th house from upapada.Can this be used for verification of

above.

Attachment: (application/octet-stream) A.jhd [not stored]

Attachment: (application/octet-stream) B.jhd [not stored]

July 8, 2001

Aum Namah Shivaya!

Namaste,

Can someone who has used the JHL, kindly write the birth details of

the couple clearly in words ? I am not sure if the date format is

European or American, though the husband's date shows that it *could

be American, if it is not a typo. I haven't used the JHL program

really and am ignorant in this respect. If someone writes mentioning

clearly the date etc, I intend doing an analysis of the lady's chart

and give my answer to the question. Thank you.

Regards,

Satya

vedic astrology, preetmohinder s dhaliwal

<preetdhaliwal@j...> wrote:

> Dear friends,

> Please find enclosed two charts.

> 1)A is ex-wife and her chart is as per the birth time given by her

> mother.

> a)Her father died on Nov 24,1994 in USA.

> b)Date of marriage -Feb 7,1998 in India.

> c)Date of divorce -April 9,2001.

>

> 2)B is ex husband and time of birth is approximate.

> a)His father died when he was in college.

>

> It seems the guy wants to get back with the lady but the lady and

her

> mother can't make up their minds if he should be trusted again.

> I am aware of one odd couple who got together after few years but

they

> were never legally divorced.

> How do we see in a chart if the couple will get back together again

or

> not,

> secondly trustworthiness of a person.

>

> Thanking in advance,

> Preet

> P.S. :-As per COVA page 291 para 3,second marriage should be seen

from

> 2nd house and 8th house from upapada.Can this be used for

verification of

> above.

July 9, 2001

Dearc Satya ji,

Birth particulars of the girl are as follows:

DOB:FEB 6,1972

TOB:04:45:00

POB:75 E47,31N 1 IST

FATHER DIED ON:NOV 24,1994 IN USA

DATE OF MARRIAGE:FEB 7,1998

DATE OF DIVORCE:APR 9,2001

Regards.

Preet

July 9, 2001

Aum Namah Shivaya!

Namste dear list members,

Some members had written to me asking me to write on the use of

nakshatras and subs. I decided to write explaining with the help of a

case from the list itself as and when I had time. But I will have to

do it in stages. Mr.Preetmohinder had sent the details of a couple,

in message # 8362. The details given are:

A lady born on Feb 6th 1972 at 04:45 hrs, 75E47, 31N01, IST, was

married to a gentleman born on Nov 13th 1972 at 14:00 hrs

(questionable time), 76E25, 30N20. Time zone is 05:30 hrs.

Past events:

1. The lady's father died on Nov24th 1994

2. The couple got married on Feb7th 1998

3. They got divorced on Apr9th 2001

First shall we see whether the past events tally or not, on the

lady's chart, since her birth time seems to be more reliable? I have

checked the events broadly. Let me clarify that I haven't verified

the birth time to see if the subs are accurate. The *planetary subs

will not change for a little variation in time. But the *cuspal sub

lords might change. In this post I do not intend to show the use of

subs much. Since I am going to use the nakshatras alone, I haven't

taken the pains of verifying the accuracy of the cuspal sub lords,

which are required for precision and refinement. *The given birth

time works well till the level of nakshatras and houses broadly.

It should be pointed out that the use of a lunar zodiac distinguishes

Jyotish from Western astrology. Though most Vedic astrologers use the

nakshatras in some way or the other, a lot of us do not use them with

a CONSISTENT methodology. In the sixties and seventies, the use of

the nakshatras was given a lot of stress by some geniuses like Sri

Gopal Krishna Rao (Meena), Sri Seshadri Iyer and Sri Krishnamurthy.

According to Sri Seshadri Iyer the sign lord is the sthoola (gross)

lord while the nakshatra is the sukshma (subtle) lord. Both Sri

Seshadri Iyer's as well as Sri Krishnamurthi's students had some sort

of a table listing the significators of houses. It should be pointed

out that in this article I am using a similar list of significators

for various houses. Sri Krishnamurthy always stressed that planets in

the nakshatra of a significator are stronger than even the

significator to give results. He also used the subs for refinement,

which I am using sparingly on purpose in this post. Let me remind you

that Sri Krishnamurthy advocated the *Placidus method for houses and

that I am also using the same here.

First let us see the death of father. Which houses should be seen for

death or danger to father? Father is seen in the 9th. The 4th being

8th to the 9th indicates danger to father. As such this is a very

important house. The 10th (2nd to 9th) and 3rd (7th to 9th)

(especially the 10th) are also important since they are maraka

houses. The 10th house is a maraka for both parents since it is 7th

from the 4th (mother) and 2nd from the 9th (father). Having given the

rationale let me now draw a list of significators IN THE ASCENDING

ORDER.

4TH HOUSE:

1. Owner of 4th cusp: Jupiter

2. Planets in owner's nakshatra: Ve

3. Occupants of 4th house (*Placidus): Mars

4. Planets in occupants' nakshatra: Moon

Similarly for the 10th house and 3rd too. A useful guideline is that

occupants and planets in their nakshatras are stronger to give

results of a house than rulers and planets in their nakshatras. If a

planet happens to be a significator at both the sthoola (sign) and

sukshma (nakshatra) level, such a planet is a very strong

significator for that house.

The dasha lord indicates many things by virtue of being a

significator of many houses. In this case Jupiter the dasha lord is a

strong significator of the 7th and 12th by virtue of either being an

occupant or in the nakshatra of an occupant. He is also a

significator of the 1st and the 4th by being the ruler of the signs

of the cusps (he is in other words the sign lord of the 1st and the

4th). So during his dasha, which lasts from Feb 1990 to Feb 2006, we

expect the person to experience events largely related to the 1st,

4th, 7th, 12th. But we do not know the nature of these events, what

they relate to, and when to expect particularly events related to the

7th or 4th or 12th and so on. Here we take the help of the antardasha

lords to narrow down. Jupiter being the significator of 1, 4, 7, 12,

we can safely say that during this dasha, matters related to the

place of living including the house and country, any changes etc

(1,4,7,12), married life, partnership, contractual agreements (7),

the native's personality and struggle for life (1), patrimony,

permanent and fixed possessions, education and qualifications esp.

school and college level education (4), etc will be in focus. While

these remain the primary focus, many other matters like danger to

father (4th), danger to maternal uncle (1), and a host of other

matters can be deduced. But how do we relate anything? By cross-

referencing with other houses, signs, nakshatras and grahas. A planet

related to 1, 4, 7 and 12 definitely speaks something about the place

of residence, change of place etc. But whether living in a foreign

country is indicated or not, is actually seen in the chart itself.

The general direction, strength of events etc will be known from the

chart. For instance, Lagna lord and 4th lord Jupiter in the 12th

(Placidus), 7th lord Merc in the lagna (Placidus) with Rahu, 9th lord

Sun in the 2nd (both rasi as well as house), 12th lord Mars in the

4th (Placidus), are all definite indications that the person of this

chart WILL live abroad in a place different from country of birth. In

this manner, after inferring the general trend of all important

matters from the chart, then we proceed to the dashas. After

ascertaining the crucial areas that might be particularly in focus in

a particular dasha, we proceed to the antardashas for unravelling the

events in a phase-wise manner.

Having said that as the ruler of 4th Jupiter might speak of danger to

father, the question arises whether we can confirm it with some level

of confidence. It is here that selecting the strongest significator

plays a major role. Father is seen in the 9th. 8th represents some

loss to, or *related to father since it is the 12th from the 9th. It

can also indicate hospitalisation of father. Moon is the ruler of the

8th. Sun, Mercury and Rahu can all represent Moon since they are in

his nakshatra. Furthermore Moon is in the 10th house, which is a

maraka for father (2nd to 9th)! Again Sun, Mercury and Rahu can give

the results of Moon more strongly than himself since they are in his

nakshatra. Now the problem is, whom to choose from the three? Mercury

is stronger to give the result than Sun or Rahu, since he is

ADDITIONALLY the RULER of the 10th (again a maraka for father). In

case of further doubt, the subs are to be checked.

Infact the transits also confirm the event. Let me also clarify that

some astrologers say that we should predict only when both transits

and dashas agree, there is no such thing in KP. DASHAS AND TRANSITS

ALWAYS AGREE. More of this in another post, since I have to

extensively use the subs for transits. Now let us check marriage. In

KP for any event three houses are to be judged. One is the primary

house while the other two are secondary but quite important. For

marriage, we should look to houses 2,7,11. The 7th (kalathra sthana)

is the primary one which signifies *partnership and *legal bondage.

The 2nd stands for increase in family (kutumba sthana refers to

family in general without reference to any particular relation while

other houses refer specifically to a particular relation) which

marriage brings by the addition of the new member. The 11th is for

pleasure and permanent or lasting friendship. Venus the natural

significator of marriage is also reckoned as important especially if

it is related to *any of the above three houses. Additionally planets

conjoined with or aspecting the above significators or houses.

What about divorce or separation? Since 12th house negates or

represents loss or dissolution, houses that are12th to 2,7,11 are to

be judged. So 1st (12th to 2nd), 6th (12th to 7th), and 10th (12th to

11th) are judged for divorce. While the 6th can bring about

separation (temporary or permanent), the 1st and 10th speak of a more

permanent separation, especially the 10th since it represents

loss/end of a permanent or lasting friendship. The 10th house, which

represents career, is a very enigmatic house. On one hand it can give

rise/growth in career (it is one of the upachaya houses).

Simultaneously as a maraka for both the mother and father, it could

be bad for the parents. It can also spell serious trouble for the

married life in the form of separation or divorce. And yet as the

karmasthana, it can represent the ultimate blossoming of karma.

Career affords one a chance to liquidate karma by living out one's

personal dharma (svadharma). That is why the highest manifestation of

Ketu in the 10th is self-realisation (remember Ketu in 10th in ideal

conditions can give self-realisation as in the case of Sri

Ramakrishna).

Let us see the significators of marriage for this chart. Mercury is

the sign ruler of the 7th cusp while Ketu is in the 7th. Jupiter and

Mars are in Ketu's nakshatra and hence are strong significators of

the 7th. The 11th has no occupant. Venus owns the 11th. No planets

in Venus nakshatra. Similarly find for the 2nd. We now have a list of

significators.

Strong significators are: Jupiter, Mars (in the nakshatra of a 7th

house occupant) and Venus (Venus owns the 11th and is also the

*natural significator for marriage).

Other significators are: Ketu (occupant of 7th as well as in the

nakshatra of 2nd cusp sign ruler), Saturn (in the nakshatra of Sun

who occupies 2nd; Saturn is also the ruler of 2nd cusp) and Mercury

(ruler of the 7th).

Jupiter, Mars and Venus are very strong significators. Ketu and

Saturn are moderate, while Mercury is an ordinary significator. Since

Jupiter's dasha is the only one which comes during a marriageable

age, among the three strong significators, we will now go ahead with

Jupiter's dasha. Which sub-period (antardasha) in Jupiter's dasha

should we choose for marriage? The strongest contenders are Mars and

Venus. Though weaker relatively, even Ketu, Saturn and Mercury can

compete. It is here that we use the subs (I am using only planetary

subs which remain the same for longer time variations; I am still not

using cuspal subs). Krishnamurthi's teaching is that THE NAKSHATRA

SHOWS A PARTICULAR MATTER. BUT IT IS THE SUB THAT INDICATES WHETHER

IT WILL BE FAVOURABLE OR NOT. This is especially true in transits.

The transit of a planet through the different subs of a constellation

shows the various phases of unfolding just as the use of sookshma

dasha refines the use of antardashas. Signs, nakshatras and subs have

a similar relation like the dasha, antardasha and sookshma dashas.

So though both Mars and Venus seem to indicate something about the

marriage, the subs that they are in show whether they are fruitful or

not. Mars is in the sub of Sun who is a significator of 10th house

(which negates the 11th) strongly. So how can it be a choice?

Similiarly, Ketu is in the sub of Moon which also negates marriage by

virtue of being a significator of the 10th. But Ketu being a strong

significator of 5,7,2, but in an unfavourable sub, could probably

indicate that during Ketu antardasha before Venus came, the lady made

serious attempts to get married or something. But the marriage had to

wait for venus to come and sanction it. Similarly Saturn is in the

sub of Mercury which makes him still worse as Mercury is a very

strong significator of the 10th and 1st both of which strongly negate

a marriage. Thus actually Mercury as lord of the 7th says something

about marriage; but as a still stronger significator of the 1st and

10th, he speaks of seperation or break in married life, more than

anything else. Now let us see Venus. He is the natural significator

of marriage and the owner of the 11th signifying a lasting

friendship. But since he is also the significator of the 6th and

12th , he could have given the couple atleast some *temporary

seperation after marriage, during his *own antardasha. This can often

happen due to job related or paper work related separations due to

visa problems, or even temporary misunderstandings etc. Remember that

if a planet signifies both good and bad houses he gives both the

results but in different sookshmas. Inspite of all this Venus WILL

give marriage since he alone is in the sub of Mars who is a strong

significator of the 7th house, and is not the significator of any of

the negating houses like 1st,6th, or the 10th. But a marriage which

occurs in the bhukti of a planet (venus in this case) which signifies

both a good house and a negating house(1,6,10) generally cannot last

forever. During a following bad antardasha, it will collapse.

Studying the sequence of the antardashas and (sometimes even the

sookshmas) tells the hidden story. While judging the stability of a

marriage, it is also vital to check the antardashas during the next 7

years. They can generally make or mar a marriage.

The next antardasha of Sun is really bad. Sun signifies the 2nd and

*10th strongly. As the significator of the 10th he *can bring the end

of what should have been a lasting relationship (11th). He is in the

nakshatra of Moon who may let him do so. But DEFINETE PROOF comes

from the fact that he is in his own sub thereby finishing the

requirement of a negating sub. A planet may propose to do anything.

But unless the SUB allows it to do so, he cannot. So during a bad

sookshma like that of Mercury (remember how Mercury is one of the

worst, rather the worst of all), he can finish the job and he seems

to have done it! One can do a similar job by studying the transits

with the help of the subs. But we will do it another time. I am

already running short of time.

----

------------------------

Now about the FUTURE. The ex-husband seems to want to come back. But

the lady is not sure if she can trust him. Will they get back? I

personally don't know of any *definite way of predicting this in a

NATAL CHART. It is possible to do it in a KP style prasna . As for

the next question as to his trustworthiness, I think the question

should be reframed. There is no such thing as a person being

trustworthy or not in a marriage. No one can be really blamed for a

failed marriage. Karma follows a person like a calf following the

cow. Who can escape Karma? An astrologer should blame none. It is the

sport of Mahakala, as our own karmas drag us into unfortunate

situations. But we can hypothetically pose a question as to what will

happen if they get together. Perhaps this is what the lady had in

mind while asking about his trustworthiness. Will the marriage work

out atleast this time? This question can be answered with some

confidence. There are two ways of answering. The first involves the

use of the sublord of the 7th cusp. But that needs the birth time to

be either accurate or rectified. We are not sure of the husband's

birth time especially. We will resort to the second method. Find out

the ruling planets of the husband. If in the wife's chart, they are

the significators of 2,7,11 without at the same time being the

significators of 1,6,10, then the marriage will be stable (also vice

versa). Of course one can study the navamsas of both against each

other, apart from the rashis or the Upapadas. But here lets just do

the KP method. The ruling planets of the husband are (I am not taking

the lagna sublord since we are not sure of the birth time):

Rahu (lagna nak lord)

Saturn (lagna lord as well as moon rashi lord)

Moon (moon nakshatra lord as well as weekdaylord)

In the wife's chart, Rahu is a strong significator of both 1 and 10,

while Moon is also a moderate significator of the 10th. Saturn seems

to be OK. But with a majority of the ruling planets being

significators of houses representing seperation and divorce, the

marriage cannot be stable. It is just a matter of time. We can only

pray for God's blessings to both of them so that they may lead their

lives on their individual paths (I hope I have answered Sri

Preetmohinderji's question here).

Now a word on compatibility. Both Sri Seshadri Iyer and Sri

Krishnamurthy were of the belief that more than a case of Porutham,

it is essentially Praptham that determined marriages. There may be a

million people compatible to you on the earth. But you may not even

meet them in your life. But the few who share a strong rnanubandhana

(the binding of karmic debt) with you, will come into your life

irrespective of compatibility. The karma shared by a couple may be

sweet or bitter. Yet they have to live their karma. Then why do we do

compatibility or matching of charts? One reason could be to assess

the strengths and weaknesses, so that one knows the general

direction, and also to be better prepared to tackle the situation.

Again it is more about how one reacts, the mental poise rather than

any radical changes by self- efforts. The quality of married life is

largely dependant on the natal chart itself. Within the boundaries

determined by our Prarabdha, we can stretch the rope of karma that

binds us, a little bit. Remember the cow? We are neither totally

bound by destiny nor are we totally free. We have limited freedom

like a cow that has been tied to a post in a field with a rope. It

can move freely, but only within the limits of the field. We have

limited freedom depending upon how much we can stretch our Karma.

Note: In eliminating some planets or selecting the strongest

significators while predicting, Krishnamurthi used the ruling planets

at the time of judgement. It is quite helpful to do so. I haven't

written some other ideas in KP due to lack of time and also because

they are not relevant to this case. Maybe I can share those ideas

some other day. Remember that it is very helpful to keep studying

traditional principles deeper even if one starts using KP. The more

deeper one's knowledge of traditional astrology, the better one can

use KP. Afterall KP is just one more strong wave in the ocean of

Vedic astrology.

May the truth set us free,

Satya

PS: I have used KP in analysing this case for the benefit of those

who had written to me asking me to write more on the use of

nakshatras and subs. The analysis can be done through other

approaches too. But the answer will be the same.

I am writing this in a hurry. Please excuse me for any errors.

July 9, 2001

May I pass this on to a friend who happens to be studying Nakshatra's in detail?

It might be of some help to her. I would certainly appreciate it.

Sincerely,

Renee

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