Guest guest Posted July 5, 2001 Report Share Posted July 5, 2001 Dear Mr. Satya, pranaam! Many thanks for your elaborate reply to my question regarding authenticity of later astrological literatures and my other question about free will. I really appreciate that you took so much time to answer and I benefitted a lot by reading your views. Obviously you are a deep thinker and a learned person with lots of experience. I agree with you that research and independent thinking has to continue and that we have to respect traditional Jyotisha literature but must not interpret it too literally.(you gave the example of Mula nakshatra girls casting doom on the family of their husbands). Your explanation of dridha, adridha karma etc. is great. Easy to grasp and highly informative. You did not, however, touch on my question regarding the BPHS shloka stating that a husband with short life gets his life span prolonged if he gets a wife with good marks and good character. I said, how can this scenario ever unfold, if everything is predestined? If he is shortlived by destiny then he can never get a wife who prolongues his lifespan. >From this I concluded that, under certain circumstances, destiny can be changed by interaction with others. Perhaps I misunderstand or perhaps you consider this shloka an interpolation? >From your explanations I gather that you are of the opinion that kriyamana karma, free will, can only produce results in the next life or, at best, only minute effects in this life. May I ask, where you got this notion from? From sacred literature, your own thinking or some other source? Regards, Arno satyaketu schrieb: > Aum Namah Shivaya! > > Dear Arno, > > I will address both your questions separately. First the one on > Freewill and destiny. > > KINDS OF KARMA > > i. Sanchita Karma or Total Accumulated Karma > This is the vast store of accumulated Karmas of all past lives (as a > human being only). It may be indirectly seen in a man in his > character, his tendencies, aptitudes, inclinations and desires. (this > is what we call samskaras and vasanas) > > ii. Prarabdha or Fructifying Karma > That portion of our Karmas allocated to us in this life is called > Prarabdha. It is the fruit of our past actions that are being reaped > in this life. All of Sanchita karma will not be experienced at one > time. Only that portion which has `become ripe' for experiencing in > this life time is Prarabdha. The natal horoscope reveals Prarabdha > only. The time of birth is Prarabdha. > > iii. Kriyaman or Current Karma > This is the fresh karma that we do in this life. This is the area > that man has freedom to determine the course of action. This > determines our future lives. This is where the concept of free will > comes. The horary chart reflects both the prarabdha of past lives as > well as the kriyaman of this life. In other words the prashna > (horary) chart is the latest karmic bank statement with regard to the > query! Actually the difference between the natal and horary charts is > minimal since one life freewill is hardly much and counts only in the > long run, thus affecting future lives. Kriyaman karma gets > accumulated and eventually adds to the Sanchita. Thus it affects the > Prarabdha of next lives. > > iv. Agami Karma or Future Karma > The karma that is coming, in other words, new actions that you > contemplate as a result of your thoughts, the way you envision the > future, is Agami Karma. Today's plans when executed could become a > reality one day. Planning is Agami while execution is Kriyaman. Thus > Agami (planning) leads to Kriyaman(freshly executed actions of the > present) which becomes Sanchita (accumulated) to later surface as > Prarabdha (destiny). Sanchita karma manifests in two ways. Firstly, > as Prarabdha or the so called destiny, and secondly, as the Samskaras > or tendencies. > > Intensity of karma > > Karma can be classified into three types based on intensity. > a. Dridha (Fixed or Strong) Karma > > b. Adridha (Not Strong/Non Fixed) Karma > > c. Dridha – Adridha (Strong/Not Strong or Not Too Strong) Karma > > As the name suggests the Dridha Karmas are very difficult or almost > impossible to be changed. Adridha karmas can be easily altered while > Dridha – Adridha can be altered through concentrated efforts. > Generally Upayes or Pariharas (spiritual remedies) are effective in > the 2nd and 3rd types. But to change very strong (Dridha) karma, is > very difficult, practically almost impossible. Either we encounter > obstacles even in implementing the remedies or a life long attempting > of the remedies is required! Change can only occur when the Agami and > Kriyaman Karmas neutralise the mixed or weak karmas. When an > astrologer sees a confluence of factors, he predicts confidently for > he knows that he is looking at Dridha Karma or Fixed Karma. > > All this depends on whether the karma is strong or not. The > circumstances under which one is placed, one's performing Shanti out > of fear, or for a favour, or unwittingly, are all karmic. In all such > charts there are some benefic influences inspite of the malefic > combinations. But dhridha karmas manifest as strong benefic or > malefic influences only. It is possible for an astrologer to estimate > the intensity of karma by a confluence of factors. Karma works in > many ways. Blessings of saints does not happen by chance. A person is > attracted to spiritual people, places, texts etc by virtue of > samskaras, which are nothing but a different form of Sanchita. > Feeding spiritual aspirants has been a custom in India. When we feed > a sadhu part of our sins gets burnt. Likewise part of his sadhana > power goes to nullify the householders sins or in raising the merit > (punya) of the householder. Yet the very desire to serve mendicants > is indicative of good samskaras. Samskaras are a subtle form of > Sanchita (total accumulated karma of all lives). While the chart > indicates Prarabdha, the samskaras indicate Sanchita. Blessings and > the company of saints do not happen accidentally. They are indicative > of some good karmas in the past. Hence even this happens due to one's > own karma. In the hands of a competent astrologer everything can be > traced to one's OWN karma. > > I don't know if this sounds convincing to you or not. Haven't you > seen astrologers predicting that you would have gone on a piligrimage > during a particular time? Isn't every piligrimage a shanti of some > kind, whether we realise it or not? I will have to leave the > discussion here because it is never ending. The debate will continue > forever. It all depends on how we see it. The bhakta says it is all > prarabdha, His Will, while the gnani says that it is purushardha. Who > am I to say anything? WE HAVE TO BELIEVE IN FREEWILL, WE HAVE NO > CHOICE! > > Regards, > Satya > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2001 Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 JAYA JAGANNATHA! Dear Mr. Satya, Namaste. pLEASE GIVE REFERENCE FROM THE REVEALED SCRIPTURES TO SUPPORT YOUR STATEMENTS. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO VERIFY OTHERWISE WHETHER THE CLASSIFICATION GIVES BY YOU MATCHES KRISHNA'S CLASSIFICATION, WHO IS THE CREATOR OF THE WHOLE NETWORK OF KARMA. Yours, Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer <gauranga Phone: +36-309-140-839 Jyotish Remedies: WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET - <satyaketu <vedic astrology> Wednesday, July 04, 2001 3:25 PM [vedic astrology] Karma and Purushardha Aum Namah Shivaya! Dear Arno, I will address both your questions separately. First the one on Freewill and destiny. KINDS OF KARMA i. Sanchita Karma or Total Accumulated Karma This is the vast store of accumulated Karmas of all past lives (as a human being only). It may be indirectly seen in a man in his character, his tendencies, aptitudes, inclinations and desires. (this is what we call samskaras and vasanas) ii. Prarabdha or Fructifying Karma That portion of our Karmas allocated to us in this life is called Prarabdha. It is the fruit of our past actions that are being reaped in this life. All of Sanchita karma will not be experienced at one time. Only that portion which has `become ripe' for experiencing in this life time is Prarabdha. The natal horoscope reveals Prarabdha only. The time of birth is Prarabdha. iii. Kriyaman or Current Karma This is the fresh karma that we do in this life. This is the area that man has freedom to determine the course of action. This determines our future lives. This is where the concept of free will comes. The horary chart reflects both the prarabdha of past lives as well as the kriyaman of this life. In other words the prashna (horary) chart is the latest karmic bank statement with regard to the query! Actually the difference between the natal and horary charts is minimal since one life freewill is hardly much and counts only in the long run, thus affecting future lives. Kriyaman karma gets accumulated and eventually adds to the Sanchita. Thus it affects the Prarabdha of next lives. iv. Agami Karma or Future Karma The karma that is coming, in other words, new actions that you contemplate as a result of your thoughts, the way you envision the future, is Agami Karma. Today's plans when executed could become a reality one day. Planning is Agami while execution is Kriyaman. Thus Agami (planning) leads to Kriyaman(freshly executed actions of the present) which becomes Sanchita (accumulated) to later surface as Prarabdha (destiny). Sanchita karma manifests in two ways. Firstly, as Prarabdha or the so called destiny, and secondly, as the Samskaras or tendencies. Intensity of karma Karma can be classified into three types based on intensity. a. Dridha (Fixed or Strong) Karma b. Adridha (Not Strong/Non Fixed) Karma c. Dridha - Adridha (Strong/Not Strong or Not Too Strong) Karma As the name suggests the Dridha Karmas are very difficult or almost impossible to be changed. Adridha karmas can be easily altered while Dridha - Adridha can be altered through concentrated efforts. Generally Upayes or Pariharas (spiritual remedies) are effective in the 2nd and 3rd types. But to change very strong (Dridha) karma, is very difficult, practically almost impossible. Either we encounter obstacles even in implementing the remedies or a life long attempting of the remedies is required! Change can only occur when the Agami and Kriyaman Karmas neutralise the mixed or weak karmas. When an astrologer sees a confluence of factors, he predicts confidently for he knows that he is looking at Dridha Karma or Fixed Karma. People belong to the following categories. 1. Those who do Shanti, ward off the troubles and attribute it to Shanti. 2. Those who do Shanti unknowingly and reap the benefits. When we do some sadhana, we are already doing some remedial measures without knowing. Sometimes if you are going to a spiritual place, some friend of yours accompanies you and also does the circumambulation etc. Some people donate just because they felt like. They may be persons belonging to another religion with no idea of shanti. 3. Those who approach an astrologer, do some remedial measures, and still suffer. How many people complain that how much ever Shanti they did, nothing worked! 4. Those who want to do shanti, but face some obstacles in doing, or obtain wrong advice from an incompetent astrologer, or get a muhurta but couldn't follow it due to whatever the reasons 5. Those who neither believe nor do shanty, but remain happy 6. Those who don't believe, don't do shanty, and keep suffering All this depends on whether the karma is strong or not. The circumstances under which one is placed, one's performing Shanti out of fear, or for a favour, or unwittingly, are all karmic. In all such charts there are some benefic influences inspite of the malefic combinations. But dhridha karmas manifest as strong benefic or malefic influences only. It is possible for an astrologer to estimate the intensity of karma by a confluence of factors. Karma works in many ways. Blessings of saints does not happen by chance. A person is attracted to spiritual people, places, texts etc by virtue of samskaras, which are nothing but a different form of Sanchita. Feeding spiritual aspirants has been a custom in India. When we feed a sadhu part of our sins gets burnt. Likewise part of his sadhana power goes to nullify the householders sins or in raising the merit (punya) of the householder. Yet the very desire to serve mendicants is indicative of good samskaras. Samskaras are a subtle form of Sanchita (total accumulated karma of all lives). While the chart indicates Prarabdha, the samskaras indicate Sanchita. Blessings and the company of saints do not happen accidentally. They are indicative of some good karmas in the past. Hence even this happens due to one's own karma. In the hands of a competent astrologer everything can be traced to one's OWN karma. I don't know if this sounds convincing to you or not. Haven't you seen astrologers predicting that you would have gone on a piligrimage during a particular time? Isn't every piligrimage a shanti of some kind, whether we realise it or not? I will have to leave the discussion here because it is never ending. The debate will continue forever. It all depends on how we see it. The bhakta says it is all prarabdha, His Will, while the gnani says that it is purushardha. Who am I to say anything? WE HAVE TO BELIEVE IN FREEWILL, WE HAVE NO CHOICE! Regards, Satya Your use of is subject to _______ Get your free @ address at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 Aum Namah Shivaya! Namaste Sri Gauranga, >pLEASE GIVE REFERENCE FROM THE REVEALED SCRIPTURES TO SUPPORT YOUR >STATEMENTS. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO VERIFY OTHERWISE WHETHER THE >CLASSIFICATION GIVES BY YOU MATCHES KRISHNA'S CLASSIFICATION, WHO IS >THE CREATOR OF THE WHOLE NETWORK OF KARMA. Earlier someone else too asked me about the classification of karma etc. So I will answer that too here. But before that let us examine as briefly as possible, the tree of Hinduism. Sanskrit literature can be classified under six orthodox and four secular sections. The 6 orthodox scriptures are: 1. Srutis 2. Smritis 3. Itihasas 4. Puranas 5. Agamas 6. Darsanas Sruti literally means what is heard, while smrti means what is remembered. Sruti is revelation based on direct experience. It is timeless wisdom, eternal truths revealed by God to the great rishis. Only the Vedas belong to this category. They are considered to have come out of the breath of the Lord. The rishis did not write them. They only realised those truths by an intuitive experience. Smrti on the other hand is only a *recollection of that experience. It is literally what is *remembered. Sruti is the primary authority. Smrti is only secondary. Though written by sages, they are not the final authority. If there is anything in the smrtis that contradicts the Sruti, the Smrti is rejected. Very broadly speaking the Mahabharata (the Bhagavad Gita is a part of it), Ramayana, the 18 major Puranas, etc all come under the smrti category. Puranas generally have 5 characteristics- they explain history, cosmology, secondary creation, genealogy of kings and of Manvantaras. The Cosmology of the Puranas often has various levels of symbolic illustration of philosophical principles. The Puranas were meant for the masses and used myth as one tool. They tried to generate in the masses devotion through concrete examples, myths, legends, allegories and chronicles of great historical events. Philosophers like Swami Vivekananda and Swami Dayananda rejected them as not authentic. In addition to the common Puranas Tamil desa has its own Tamil puranas too. The Puranas are good to read, but not for blindly taking as an authority. Then we have the Agamas with their favourite form of God as Vishnu or Siva or Sakti, explaining the external worship of God among other things. While the Puranas appeal to the heart, the intellectual section of Hindu writings meant for the scholar is what is called the Darsanas. These are the six schools of philosophy. They show 6 ways of "seeing" things. Each school has developed, systematised and correlated various ideas of the Vedas in its own way. Vedanta of Badarayana or Vyasa is one of the 6 schools of philosophy. Again within this, there are many different schools. Jyotish is not among any of the above. Jyotish is a VEDANGA among 6 other limbs. Strictly speaking there is NO VEDIC ASTROLOGY. The Vedas don't speak of predictive astrology. Based on this, some scholars like Swami Dayananda Saraswati, the illustrious founder of the Arya Samaj, even REJECTED astrology. So *strictly speaking, the question of REVEALED KNOWLEDGE in Jyotish does not arise as only the Vedas are revealed. All other knowledge is secondary and is only *BASED on revealed knowledge. Even what we know as the teachings of Parashara or Jaimini are not *always authentic due to various reasons. The tree of Hinduism has the sruti (veda) as the roots, the smritis (including the itihasas and puranas as the trunk, the agamas and darsanas as the branches, and the secular writings like the subhashitas, kavyas, natakas and alankaras as the flowers. If it comes to authority from the scriptures, some would reject everything, save the Vedas! To a Vaisnavite, his puranas may be acceptable but not a Saivite purana. The same with a saivite. As I already pointed out, certain parts of some puranas are questionable. Though some puraanas are quite good, some cannot be taken too seriously. Infact some great thinkers of India have rejected the Puranas as not being authentic. Certain puranas write that Lord Vishnu came as Buddha to mislead people from the truth. This is a clever attack at Buddhism. But since they could not deny the personal appeal of the Buddha, they had to embrace him as Vishnu! Intolerance shown in some puranas to the Jains, or Buddhists, or even rival sects within Hinduism is not a product of any sagely person (I am not averse to the Puranas. Infact I myself do parayana (devout reading) of certain sections of the Markandeya purana and Skanda purana). Coming to the philosophical basis of Karma, my interpretations are based on my studies and what has been taught to me. Anywhere if I have to give the philosophy, I base it on my understanding of what has been taught to me, as I have assimilated the teachings. Since you have suggested that it is the parampara that grants adhikara, let me address that issue too. My earliest guru for Vedanta studies is Swami Ranganathanandaji the current President of Sri Ramakrishna Mission. This was when I had just finished my schooling. I joined the dental college only after three full years of personal spiritual studies (astrology was not my main interest though I studied Jyotish too). I did more studies in Vedanta during my hathayoga sadhana at different times under swamis belonging to the order of Swami Sivananda Saraswatiji of Rishikesh. Swami Sacchidanandaji of Sringeri parampara also guided me in my Jyotish studies at one time when he initiated me into …, during which time he guided me in my study of the Agamas. What is common between all these monks is that they all trace their lineage (GURU PARAMPARA)as follows. Narayana Padmabhuva (Brahma) Vasishtha Sakti Parasara Vyasa Suka Gaudapada Govinda bhagavatpada Sankaracarya Suresvara Now getting back to the kinds of karma, you WILL NOT find any references in the REVEALED SCRIPTURES. But you will not find there the majority of things discussed here. But in other Vedantic literature you will find casual references. Another equally acceptable reference to most students would be the teachings of saints and mahatmas. The easiest references I can give you for the classification of karmas, are the books of poojya Swami Sivanada Saraswati. Infact he even gives two analogies from vedantic literature. One is of a bowman who has shot an arrow. The arrow that has been already shot cannot be recalled. This is Prarabdha. The bundle of arrows in the quiver are compared to Sanchita while the arrow which he is about to shoot is Agami. Though he has control over the arrow in his hand (Agami), he has no way of recalling the one he has shot (prarabdha). Another analogy of the granary is also given. Why that far? Even Sri KN Rao has used a similar classification in his "Karma and Rebirth". Most students of spiritual studies in India are familiar with the classification of types and intensity of Karma in some form or the other. Swami Sivananda speaks of even Prarabdha as three kinds- Iccha prarabdha, Aniccha Prarabdha, and Paraiccha prarabdha. I have taken the help of his teachings to clarify things. The teachings of noble saints like him guide even great scholars. The tradition in India is that the greatest scholars also took the explanations of enlightened saints like Sri Ramana Maharshi when they could not solve a riddle in the sastras. So in that sense, their words are equally acceptable to us. I can assure you that the classifications that I have given are not from my imagination and that I am not inventing anything new. The only place where my personal beliefs could have coloured my views is regarding Purushardha. Of course this has been debated since time immemorial. The Yoga Vasishta is a good example. Even the sages give different opinions in different places. It varies from person to person. I feel that the strength of an astrologer's belief in Prarabdha is directly proportional to how confident he is in predicting. With more predictive accuracy especially predictions that come true against odds, his belief leans more heavily towards Prarabdha. Here again, I am talking about techniques and methodologies and not factors like intuition. I know the role of intuition and have experienced it. In fact when I learnt astrology in my teens, I gave what people considered as fantastic predictions. I even predicted the assassination of Rajiv Gandhi to a group of senior police officers (my father is a police officer) a month before it actually happened. The same month I gave almost ten predictions all of which came very true. But I could not have explained the steps that led me to predict a particular event even half as well as I can today. A similar experience like yours (predicting accurately even on wrong data) happened to me too a couple of times. Those days I wonder if I had a *consistent methodology. I relied on intuition and sadhana more than real astrological methods. After more than 12 years today, when the depth of understanding seems to have increased, I can repeat the steps in my mind as well as to others. I can repeat the technique. This is the main difference. When I relied a lot on intuition, I believed more in Purushardha. But now, with an equal reliance on technique (or even more stress on technique), when I see the *nearly replicable patterns, my belief in astrology as a divine *science and the *inevitability of Prarabdha has grown strong. I am young still and there is a lot to learn. But with each day, as I see the techniques of Jyotish working very well, my leaning towards Prarabdha is increasing more and more. Please do not mistake this for ego or fatalism. On the contrary it has taught me to accept Prarabdha as His Will. What is the difference between a psychic and an astrologer if the astrologer also depends heavily on intuition? Intuition is very essential, but overemphasis on intuition is also not healthy for the revival of astrology. Normally I generally don't like to get into debates on philosophical things. I would not have even written all this. But since we all would like to see Jyotish being given its place,… I am just sharing my thoughts on this list. I am not trying to contradict anyone. I respect all devotees, all astrologers and methods. My salutations to you from my heart (I mean it). May the truth set us free, Satya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 Hello there , for all your spiritual needs please feel free to check this site :- http://www.slokas.com/vedicrituals/vedicrituals.jsp Best Regards Rajender Tella _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2001 Report Share Posted July 12, 2001 JAYA JAGANNATHA! Dear Mr. Satya, Namaste.Now getting back to the kinds of karma, you WILL NOT find any references in the REVEALED SCRIPTURES. But you will not find there the majority of things discussed here. But in other Vedantic I'm sorry, but I can't agree with your above statement. Right here is a reference from the Padma Purana: apraarabdha-phalam paapamkutam beejam phalonmukhamkrameniva praleeyetavińëu-bhakti-rataatmanaam There are different stages of dormant reactions to sinful activities to be observed in a sinful life. Sinful reactions may be just waiting to take effect [phalonmukha], reactions may be still further dormant [kuta], or the reactions may be in a seedlike state [beeja]. In any case, all types of sinful reactions are vanquished one after another if a person engages in the devotional service of Lord Visnu. Another one from the Bhagavad-gita: urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthaa, madhye tisthanti raajasaahjaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha, adho gacchanti taamasaah Bg 14.18 - Those situated in the mode of goodness gradually go upward to the higher planets; those in the mode of passion live on the earthly planets; and those in the abominable mode of ignorance go down to the hellish worlds. And another from Srimad Bhagavatam (3.31.1): sri-bhagavan uvacakarmana daiva-netrenajantur dehopapattayestriyah pravista udarampumso retah-kanaasrayah The Personality of Godhead said: Under the supervision of the Supreme Lord and according to the result of his work, the living entity, the soul, is made to enter into the womb of a woman through the particle of male semen to assume a particular type of body. So if someone thoroughly researches Puranas, the Gita and Upanisads, I'm sure he will find a lot oo reference for the classification of karmic reactions. Therefore I do not see any point in bringing in new, non-shastric categories. As I have stated earlier: Acharyavan purusho vedah, i.e. the acharya's duty is to reveal the scriptures, not to speculate up new systems of philosophy. Yours, Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer <gauranga (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net> Phone: +36-309-140-839 Jyotish Remedies: WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2001 Report Share Posted July 12, 2001 Aum Namah Shivaya! Namaste Sri Gauranga, A very brief answer. 1.By "REVEALED SCRIPTURES", I mean the Vedas. Some Puranas are good, but cannot be classified exactly under "revealed" as only the Vedas are revealed. The Puranas are *based on revealed knowledge. This is what I have been taught, even at school. Since you asked for references from the "revealed scriptures" I tried to clarify that only the Vedas are considered as "revealed". > I'm sorry, but I can't agree with your above statement. Right here >is a reference from the Padma Purana: 2. When did I ever say that you wont find references in the Puranas. > So if someone thoroughly researches Puranas, the Gita and >Upanisads, I'm sure he will find a lot oo reference for the >classification of karmic reactions. That is exactly what my point is. The references to karmic reactions as you have given are not the same as kinds of karma. And as you said that "if someone thoroughly researches Puranas, the Gita and Upanisads, I'm sure he will find a lot oo reference", do you think that you have searched them MORE THOROUGHLY THAN SPIRITUAL GIANTS LIKE POOJYA SWAMI SIVANANDA SARASWATIJI? >Therefore I do not see any point in bringing in new, non-shastric >categories. As I have stated earlier: Acharyavan purusho vedah, i.e. >the acharya's duty is to reveal the scriptures, not to speculate up >new systems of philosophy. Whether it is non-sastraic or not, is not for *US to decide. The knowledge that either of us have, reg the sastras is just the tip of the ice-berg. Just because you are an acharya, doesn't mean that there cannot be anything in the sastras that you haven't been taught or do not know. I could have written a lot more. But I don't see any point in doing so. But one final word. Indian philosophy is not as simple and limited as you think. It has thousands of different schools co- existing, and many more coming. There is a lot that you and I will still learn. Tolerance to other paramparas and acharyas, is nice. Good luck in your spiritual quest. My salutations to you. May the truth set us free, Satya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2001 Report Share Posted July 13, 2001 Aum Namah Shivaya! Namaste Sri Gauranga, Though I did not wish to pursue the discussion because I do not like to get into a philosophical argument, I thought that I should write a little more. There are six kinds of evidences I can give for the wide acceptance that the types of karma that I have mentioned has. 1. Scriptural 2. Teachings of enlightened saints 3. Teachings of various paramparas 4. Well known astrologers' writings 5. Commentaries of great teachers 5. Other well known sources I will give them below very briefly. 1. Sri Ramana Maharshi clearly speaks of the three kinds of karmas at many places in literature related to him. The following is from "Self Realisation". "If we regard ourselves as the doers of action we shall also be the enjoyers of the fruits of such action. If by enquiring who does these actions one realises one's Self, the sense that one is the doer vanishes and with it go all the three kinds of Karma (viz. sanchita, agamya and prarabdha). This is the state of Eternal Mukti or Liberation." Again in his "The Forty Verses on Reality", in verse 38, "As long as a man is the doer, he also reaps the fruit of his deeds, but, as soon as he realizes the Self through enquiry as to who is the doer his sense of being the doer falls away and the triple karma (viz.sanchita, prarabdha and agami) is ended. This is the state of eternal Liberation." Elsewhere he states, "Prarabdha karma is of three categories, ichha, anichha and parechha [personally desired, without desire, and due to others' desire]. For the one who has realized the Self, there is no ichha-prarabdha but the two others, anichha and parechha, remain." 2. Swami Sivananda gives this classification in atleast 15 books that I can remember. One can check any of his books. Just for a sample, in his "Brahma Sutras" commentary, Chapter 4, section 1, a clear explanation is given. Or even his Bhagavad Gita can be studied. I am reproducing the extract from his commentary on the Gita below. As the blazing fire reduces wood (fuel) to ashes, so does the fire of knowledge reduce all actions to ashes. Gita, Ch.4, Verse 37. [Note: Just as the seeds that are roasted cannot germinate, so also the actions that are burnt by the fire of knowledge cannot bear fruits, i.e., cannot bring man to this world again for the enjoyment of the fruits of his actions. This is reducing actions to ashes. The actions lose their potency as they are burnt by the fire of knowledge. When the knowledge of the Self dawns, all actions with their results are burnt by the fire of that knowledge just as fuel is burnt by the fire. When there is no agency-mentality (the idea "I do this") when there is no desire for the fruits, action is no action at all. It has lost its potency. The fire of knowledge can burn all actions except the prarabdha karma, or the result of past action which has brought this body into existence and which has thus already begun to bear fruits or produce effects. According to some philosophers even the prarabdha karma is destroyed by the fire of knowledge. Sri Sankara says in his `Aparokshanubhuti': "In the passage `His actions are destroyed when the Supreme is realised' the Veda expressly speaks of actions (karmas) in the plural, in order to signify the destruction of even the prarabdha." There are three kinds of karmas or reaction to or fructification of past actions: 1. Prarabdha, so much of past actions as has given rise to the present birth. 2. Sanchita, the balance of past actions that will give rise to future births - the storehouse of accumulated actions 3. Agami or Kriyamana, acts being done in the present life. If by the knowledge of the Self only the Sanchita and Agami were destroyed and not Prarabdha, the dual number would have been used and not the plural. ( Sanskrit language grammar has singular, dual and plural numbers).] 3. Other famous spiritual teachers who have written on the kinds of karma are Swami Muktananda, Sant Keshavdas, Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami of the Himalayan Academy, Annie Besant etc. Annie Besant writes more than two to three pages on this in her "The Ancient Wisdom", Chapter 9(first published in1897). 4. 'The Working Glossary of Theosophical Literature' by W Q Judge includes a clear description of the types of Karma. 5. 'Hinduism's online lexicon' maintained by Hinduism Today, also clearly describes the kinds of karma. 6. Sri K.N.Rao writes very elaborately about the same in his "Karma and Rebirth". He has written a whole chapter on the classification of Karma. In the first paragraph of the same chapter he writes, " Karma has been well explained in many commentaries of the Gita and in the Mahabharata. In other scriptures too it is referred to in some context or the other. Here only a brief summary is being given. THERE IS NOTHING ORIGINAL IN WHAT I AM PRSENTING HERE. I AM ONLY TABULATING SOME ESSENTIAL POINTS FROM THOSE COMMENTARIES WRITTEN BY WISE MEN OF INDIA." 7. Mrs.Gayatri Devi Vasudev, daughter of Sri B.V.Raman, has used almost the same classification in her editorial in the Astrological Magazine, dated June 1995. This is only a sample. I can multiply with many more. I can give you proofs from the commentaries to various scriptural texts by many great gurus. But you may not want to accept them since they are of a different sect. I am sure that you will find many casual references to the terms prarabdha, sanchita, kriyaman and agami, from the Puranas too if one searches diligently. From the context the meaning may be understood. I will provide you with the exact references from Vedantic literature which use the analogy of the granary and bowman, and maybe some more, once I go to India (I will go in a month). Unfortunately I have not shifted my wonderful private library to Australia yet. It has been only a year and half since I came here. But I assure you that you will hear from me once I get those scriptural references. Even a meta-analysis of some scriptures will give proof of the kinds of Karma. The sample given above covers a vast variety of spiritual organisations and masters. Some of the traditions have been here for a long time. Some gurus are atleast known to be liberal in their outlook. But Swami Sacchidananda Saraswatiji of Sringeri parampara who had taught me at one time,represents a very orthodox sect. To my knowledge, the Sringeri parampara does not accept anything without scriptural sanction. I have come across a similar classification at almost every spiritual organisation that I interacted with (and I have been with many). In this matter all my teachers taught me the same. I have no doubt about it being in accordance with the sastras. One cannot assume that what one knows alone is the sastra. As I already pointed out, thousands of different schools co-exist in India. The same Vedas have been used by all those schools to derive their seemingly divergent views. Truth is One. The paths to it are many. To confine the Infinite to the limits of one sect or view is misleading. No sect or religion or person can claim to hold it exclusively. May the truth set us free, Satya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2001 Report Share Posted July 13, 2001 Namaste Satya, Some food for thought...Please see attached regarding "KARMA" <<Fw: Guru Poornima Sai Message>> > ---------- > satyaketu[sMTP:satyaketu] > Reply vedic astrology > 13 July 2001 09:01 > vedic astrology > [vedic astrology] Re: Karma and Purushardha > > Aum Namah Shivaya! > > Namaste Sri Gauranga, > > Though I did not wish to pursue the discussion because I do not like > to get into a philosophical argument, I thought that I should write a > little more. There are six kinds of evidences I can give for the wide > acceptance that the types of karma that I have mentioned has. > > 1. Scriptural > 2. Teachings of enlightened saints > 3. Teachings of various paramparas > 4. Well known astrologers' writings > 5. Commentaries of great teachers > 5. Other well known sources > > I will give them below very briefly. > > 1. Sri Ramana Maharshi clearly speaks of the three kinds of > karmas at many places in literature related to him. The following is > from "Self Realisation". > > "If we regard ourselves as the doers of action we shall also be > the > enjoyers of the fruits of such action. If by enquiring who does these > actions one realises one's Self, the sense that one is the doer > vanishes and with it go all the three kinds of Karma (viz. sanchita, > agamya and prarabdha). This is the state of Eternal Mukti or > Liberation." > > Again in his "The Forty Verses on Reality", in verse 38, > "As long as a man is the doer, he also reaps the fruit of his > deeds, > but, as soon as he realizes the Self through enquiry as to who is the > doer his sense of being the doer falls away and the triple karma > (viz.sanchita, prarabdha and agami) is ended. This is the state of > eternal Liberation." > > Elsewhere he states, "Prarabdha karma is of three categories, > ichha, > anichha and parechha [personally desired, without desire, and due to > others' desire]. For the one who has realized the Self, there is > no > ichha-prarabdha but the two others, anichha and parechha, remain." > > 2. Swami Sivananda gives this classification in atleast 15 books > that I can remember. One can check any of his books. Just for a > sample, in his "Brahma Sutras" commentary, Chapter 4, section > 1, a > clear explanation is given. Or even his Bhagavad Gita can be studied. > I am reproducing the extract from his commentary on the Gita below. > > As the blazing fire reduces wood (fuel) to ashes, so does the fire of > knowledge reduce all actions to ashes. Gita, Ch.4, Verse 37. > [Note: Just as the seeds that are roasted cannot germinate, so also > the actions that are burnt by the fire of knowledge cannot bear > fruits, i.e., cannot bring man to this world again for the enjoyment > of the fruits of his actions. This is reducing actions to ashes. The > actions lose their potency as they are burnt by the fire of > knowledge. When the knowledge of the Self dawns, all actions with > their results are burnt by the fire of that knowledge just as fuel is > burnt by the fire. > When there is no agency-mentality (the idea "I do this") when > there > is no desire for the fruits, action is no action at all. It has lost > its potency. The fire of knowledge can burn all actions except the > prarabdha karma, or the result of past action which has brought this > body into existence and which has thus already begun to bear fruits > or produce effects. > According to some philosophers even the prarabdha karma is destroyed > by the fire of knowledge. Sri Sankara says in his > `Aparokshanubhuti': > > "In the passage `His actions are destroyed when the Supreme > is > realised' the Veda expressly speaks of actions (karmas) in the > plural, in order to signify the destruction of even the > prarabdha." > There are three kinds of karmas or reaction to or fructification of > past actions: > > 1. Prarabdha, so much of past actions as has given rise to the > present birth. > 2. Sanchita, the balance of past actions that will give rise to > future births - the storehouse of accumulated actions > 3. Agami or Kriyamana, acts being done in the present life. If by the > knowledge of the Self only the Sanchita and Agami were destroyed and > not Prarabdha, the dual number would have been used and not the > plural. ( Sanskrit language grammar has singular, dual and plural > numbers).] > > 3. Other famous spiritual teachers who have written on the kinds > of karma are Swami Muktananda, Sant Keshavdas, Satguru Sivaya > Subramuniyaswami of the Himalayan Academy, Annie Besant etc. Annie > Besant writes more than two to three pages on this in her "The > Ancient Wisdom", Chapter 9(first published in1897). > > 4. 'The Working Glossary of Theosophical Literature' by W Q > Judge includes a clear description of the types of Karma. > > 5. 'Hinduism's online lexicon' maintained by Hinduism Today, > also clearly describes the kinds of karma. > > 6. Sri K.N.Rao writes very elaborately about the same in > his "Karma and Rebirth". He has written a whole chapter on > the > classification of Karma. In the first paragraph of the same chapter > he writes, " Karma has been well explained in many commentaries > of > the Gita and in the Mahabharata. In other scriptures too it is > referred to in some context or the other. Here only a brief summary > is being given. THERE IS NOTHING ORIGINAL IN WHAT I AM PRSENTING > HERE. I AM ONLY TABULATING SOME ESSENTIAL POINTS FROM THOSE > COMMENTARIES WRITTEN BY WISE MEN OF INDIA." > > 7. Mrs.Gayatri Devi Vasudev, daughter of Sri B.V.Raman, has used > almost the same classification in her editorial in the Astrological > Magazine, dated June 1995. > > This is only a sample. I can multiply with many more. I can give you > proofs from the commentaries to various scriptural texts by many > great gurus. But you may not want to accept them since they are of a > different sect. I am sure that you will find many casual references > to the terms prarabdha, sanchita, kriyaman and agami, from the > Puranas too if one searches diligently. From the context the meaning > may be understood. I will provide you with the exact references from > Vedantic literature which use the analogy of the granary and bowman, > and maybe some more, once I go to India (I will go in a month). > Unfortunately I have not shifted my wonderful private library to > Australia yet. It has been only a year and half since I came here. > But I assure you that you will hear from me once I get those > scriptural references. Even a meta-analysis of some scriptures will > give proof of the kinds of Karma. > > The sample given above covers a vast variety of spiritual > organisations and masters. Some of the traditions have been here for > a long time. Some gurus are atleast known to be liberal in their > outlook. But Swami Sacchidananda Saraswatiji of Sringeri parampara > who had taught me at one time,represents a very orthodox sect. To my > knowledge, the Sringeri parampara does not accept anything without > scriptural sanction. I have come across a similar classification at > almost every spiritual organisation that I interacted with (and I > have been with many). In this matter all my teachers taught me the > same. I have no doubt about it being in accordance with the sastras. > One cannot assume that what one knows alone is the sastra. As I > already pointed out, thousands of different schools co-exist in > India. The same Vedas have been used by all those schools to derive > their seemingly divergent views. Truth is One. The paths to it are > many. To confine the Infinite to the limits of one sect or view is > misleading. No sect or religion or person can claim to hold it > exclusively. > > May the truth set us free, > Satya > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Sagran Moodley sagran Carlos Tona carlostona Cc: "Usha (Sandton)" ushag, "Sushilla (Stand) Maharaj" Sushilla.Maharaj, "Roshnee (Spr) Govender" sgovender1, "Roshnee (Lenz) Govender" roshneeg, "Ray (CCm) Naicker" naickerr, "Rageni (laud) Govender" rageni.govender, "Raj.Rama" raj.rama, "Prevani (CCm) Govender" servantofsai, Nazneen nosh, "Nandha (Lotus) Govender" nandha.govender, Naidoo Charles Charles.Naidoo, Nagia Kumaran Kumaran.Nagia, "Moodley, Vissie" VMoodley, "Moodley, Nasen" nasen.moodley, Mary Gibbons MMGibbons9, "Mahendren (Beno) Moodley" mahendren.moodley, "Lennie (CCm) Pillay" lennip, Lakshmi Bobba/LDOL LBobba, Kumar Subramaniam kumar_s75, "Krishna (VillaL) Naidoo" naidookr, krish saikrish, Kishin J Khubchandani glamour, "Kishan (CCm) Bodalina" bodalinak, "Kinross (Praveen) Naidoo" praveen.naidoo, "Kenny (CCm) Pillay" KPillay, "Jeevanandam, Valluvan" jeevan, "Ish (Benoni) Raghunan" 512mala, Familyhome moodleyusa, dvanourny Fw: Guru Poornima Sai Message Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:42:23 +0200 Guru Poornima Sai Message > GURUPOORNIMA SANDESH > Divine Discourse > By Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba > Prasanthi Nilayam - 5th. July > 2001 > > I and You are One > > One who cultivates the crop of love in the field of one's heart > is a > true Christian > a true Sikh > a true Hindu and a true Muslim. In fact > > He is a true human being and a true Guru. > > (Telugu Poem) > > God is all-pervasive and is the indweller of all beings. Likewise > the five elements > which are nothing but divine manifestations are also all-pervasive and all-powerful. The whole world is pervaded by the five elements > bound by the five elements and it functions because of the five elements. It cannot function even if one of the elements is absent. Therefore > for every man > the five elements are like his five life principles. No one can comprehend the power of these elements. However > every man must necessarily know the significance of these elements. He alone is truly blessed and meritorious who understands their significance and acts accordingly. In fact > he would have achieved the objectives of human life > i.e. > the Purusharthas. It is the bounden duty of every man to recognize the import of these elements. The five elements are the cause for man's pleasure and pain > good and bad. The five elements confer on man happiness or misery depending on how he makes use of them. Their names and forms may appear simple > but they are highly powerful. > > Having been born > man lives for a few years > and ultimately gives up his body. The five elements are responsible for man's birth > growth and death. The five elements are spread right from both microcosm and macrocosm. They are present in man from top to toe. So > it is imperative that man knows the secret of these elements. Having understood the significance of the five elements well > Buddha made concerted efforts to gain control over his five senses. He taught Buddham Saranam Gachhami > Sangham Saranam Gachhami. He used his intellect to understand the truth and shared his wisdom with society. First of all > he exercised control over his vision. Among the five senses of perception > the eyes are endowed with immense power. They have 40 lakhs of light rays in them. Today man is putting his senses to misuse and as a result > his body is becoming weaker day by day. His life-span is being reduced by his unsacred vision and the sensual pleasures that he is indulging in. Lakhs of light rays in his eyes are being destroyed because of his unsacred vision. That is the reason man is developing eye defects. Today many people undergo cataract operations to set their vision right. The doctors may say > man develops eye defects because of cataract > but in fact > it is the result of unsacred vision. So > one should have proper control over one's vision. Whatever may be the spiritual > practices that one may undertake > one cannot derive their benefit without having control over one's vision. All the sadhanas like Japa > Thapa and Dhyana confer only temporary satisfaction. These practices cannot help you to have a control over your vision. In fact > the entire Srushti (creation) is based on your Drishti (vision). The Netras (eyes) are verily the Sastras (sacred texts). > > Along with control over vision > one needs to have control over one's tongue. There are 3 lakh taste buds in the tongue. As man has become a slave to the taste > he consumes various delicacies > and inthe process spoils his tongue. Not merely that > he makes his tongue utter unsacred words but also > he hurts other's feelings by using harsh words. His life span is further reduced by the misuse of his tongue in this manner. Likewise > all the senses are losing their power as they are being put to misuse > thereby cutting short his life-span. So > first of all > man should keep his eyes and tongue under check. When these two are controlled > man's energy is revitalized. The power that one cannot attain from years of penance is obtained when man puts his eyes and tongue to sacred use. O tongue > the knower of taste! You are very sacred. Speak the truth in the most pleasing manner. > > Chant the Divine Names of Govinda > Madhava and Damodara incessantly. This is your foremost duty (Sanskrit verse). > > Do not cause pain to others by using harsh words. In fact > others are not others but your own self as the same principle of Atma is present in all. The one who causes pain and the one suffers from it are one and the same. So > never speak in such a way as to hurt others. That is why I tell you often > talk less > but you are not taking My words seriously. You are unable to understand to what hazards will excessive talk lead you in future. > > See no evil > see what is good. Only then will your eyes attain the sacred power by which you will be able to visualize the divine Cosmic Form. Spiritual practices will yield greater rewards if senses arekept under control. Unmindful of the power of the senses and without making proper use of them > man is under the delusion that he can achieve great rewards by undertaking various practices which are physical and worldly in nature. But in reality > one cannot get anything out of these practices except temporary satisfaction. First of all > man should exercise control over his senses. Never listen to anything that is evil. If any situation arises > leave the place immediately. Hear no evil > see no evil and talk no evil. Make every effort to be away from evil. Only then will spiritual power grow in you more and more. Why did our ancient sages and seers go to forests to spend their lives in solitude? It is only to control their senses. True spiritual Sadhana lies in controlling one's senses. > > Without sense control all spiritual practices will prove futile. Instead of using the tongue to utter evil words > why don't you chant the Divine Names like Rama > Krishna and Govinda? You are piling up sins because of the misuse of the senses. The sins that you have piled up may not be visible to the naked eye > but they are sure to put you to suffering. That which is not seen will make you eat the fruits of your action. O man understand this secret of Karma (action). > > Embodiments of Love! > > Senses are like life principles for every man. Once you rein your senses > your life will be peaceful. You should not only avoid evil talk > but also talk less. Your speech should be short and sweet. Sages like Valmiki > Vyasa and great devotees like Potana composed sacred texts and sanctified their lives. Emulate their deeds and make your life exemplary. Read sacred texts composed by such noble souls. Today people read books which pollute the mind. It is a very bad practice. Be it reading > writing > seeing or talking > let everything be good. Do not commit any mistake knowingly. You can experience divinity in humanity by putting the senses to proper use. > > One can visualize the Divine manifestations and become Divine himself only through sacred use of the senses. Man > unaware of his innate divine potential > considers himself low and leads a life of delusion. He thinks there is a power superior to him and makes efforts to attain it. There is no power superior to him. Ekam Sath Viprah Bahudha Vadanthi (Truth is one > but scholars refer to it by many names). There is only one > not two. It is a sign of ignorance to think that there is something different from you and be in search of it. Multiplicity is your own imagination. Ekoham Bahusyam (I am one > I will become many). You can understand this truth once you control your senses. > > People are under the mistaken notion that they derive happiness when their desires are fulfilled. In fact > happiness results not when desires are fulfilled > but when they are controlled. One can enjoy the state of bliss by controlling one's desires. One who craves for the fulfillment of his desires is always restless. Desires correspond to Pravritti (outward path) in which these is no happiness whatsoever. You are deluded by you thinking that there is happiness in the world > whereas you are distancing yourself from Nivritti (inward path). > > Embodiment of Love! > > For everything > love is life. To attain that state of love > make proper use of your senses. Buddha visited many noble souls > studied sacred texts and undertook various Sadhanas. Later > he realized that all those related to Pravritti (outward path). Ultimately > he realized that happiness lay in making proper use of the five senses. He stopped reading sacred texts > he did not visit noble souls any more and gave up all the spiritual practices. He understood that whatever Sadhana was done with this ephemeral body would yield fleeting happiness only. True and eternal bliss will result only when Sadhanas are done with pure and eternal feelings. When Buddha started exercising control over his senses > he experienced infinite bliss which he could not contain in himself. He hugged his cousin > Ananda > who was by his side and said > Ananda, I have attained the state of Nirvana and am unable to contain the bliss within me. I am ready to give up this mortal coil. > On hearing this > Ananda startedshedding tears. Then Buddha said > Oh simpleton, instead of rejoicing over my attaining this state of bliss, why are you grieving over it? > You are looking for fleeting happiness in worldly matters > whereas Buddha strived to attain bliss in the spiritual realm > which is true > eternal and immortal. As you are immersed in worldliness > you are distancing yourself from immortality. Though you are committing many sins > you do not consider them as sins. You think that they are quite natural to human beings. You keep committing mistakes > yet you pray for pardon. Actually > one should never seek pardon for the mistake committed. One should be prepared to undergo the punishment. Only then can you be free from defects. If a person commits a serious offence > he is put in jail. He is released only > after he undergoes punishment for the required period. Like wise > you will be redeemed once you atone for your sins. Likewise > if you want redemption > you should be prepared to face punishment for your mistakes. You should exercise control over the senses and see that you do not repeat them. By chanting the Vedic verses which are very sacred > one gets immense bliss. That is why even Buddha > who did not believe in the Vedas in the beginning > developed interest in them. People were under the > impression that Buddha opposed the Vedas. Later > Sankaracharya tried to erase this misconception from people's mind > saying that Buddha was never against the Vedas. He said that people themselves were going against the Vedas out of their ignorance. Buddha conquered desire which is not possible for everybody. One need not do any great Sadhana to conquer desire. You will not be trouble by desire once you understand the inner meaning of life. Today man is prepared to stoop down to any level for money. He pretends to be a great devotee of the Lord and tries to cheat people. Is this what he is > supposed to do? No. He should conquer desire and control the senses. > > Students! > > You are young and yours is the right age to exercise control over the senses. You can make use of them in a sacred manner. Once you know the proper path > you will never give up. You can understand the teaching of the Vedas > only when you cultivate good qualities. You can cultivate good qualities only through practices. There may be a few obstacles in your path > but never give up. > > Today we are celebrating Guru Purnima. Purnima means full moon day. Then who is a Guru? The modern Gurus whisper a Mantra into the ear and stretch their hand for money. Such people are not fit to be called Gurus. > > Gukaro Gunateethaha > Rukaro Rupavarjithaha > (one who is attributeless and formless is a true Guru) > > A Guru is necessary to make you understand the formless and attributeless Divinity. Since it is difficult to get such Gurus > consider God as your Guru. > > Gurur Brahma Gurur Vishnu Gurur Devo Maheshwara; > Gurur Sakshat Para Brahma Thasmai Sri Gurave Namaha > > Guru is Brahma > Guru is Vishnu > Guru is Maheshwara. Consider Guru as your everything. In this world > everything is a manifestation of Divinity. Sarvam Khalvidam Brahma (verily all this Brahman). All are the embodiments of Divinity. In fact > all that you see is nothing but the Divine Cosmic Form (Viswa Virat Swarupa). > > Sahasra Seersha Purusha > Sahasraksha Sahasra Padh > (With thousands of heads > thousands of feet and thousands of eyes > Divinity pervades everything). This means all the heads > all the feet and all the eyes that we see in this world belong to God. When the Vedic statement > Sahasra Seersha.....was made > the population of the world was only a few thousands > but now it runs into a few hundred crores. In those days > people considered everybody as Divine. They believed in the Vedic dictum > Sarva Bhuta Namaskaram Kesavam Pratigachchati (salutations to all beings reach God). > > Easwara Sarva Bhutanam (God is the indweller of all beings). > Isavasyam Idam Sarvam (the entire universe is permeated by God). > > Divinity is not restricted to a particular place. God is here > God is there and He is everywhere. You are developing differences out of delusion > but Divinity is One and only One. It is the duty of a Guru to propagate such principle of oneness. Today there are many good disciples > but it is difficult to find a true Guru. We have many good boys among out students. However > even if one or two are bad > all of them will earn a bad name and will have to face punishment. Here is a small example. When you sleep at night > you are bitten by one or two mosquitoes. The next morning > you spray insecticide and kill all the mosquitoes though you are bitten by only a few. Likewise > God also punishes those who join bad company. That is why it is said Tyaja Durjana Samsargam; Bhaja Sadhu Samagaman; Kuru Punyam Ahorathram (run away from bad company; join good company and perform meritorious deeds day and night). > > Whenever bad qualities like anger and jealousy crop up in you > do not be carried away by them. Control them. Keep telling yourself > Anger is a bad quality. It will lead to bad actions and ultimately put me to ruin. > Whenever you are angry > sit quietly in one place and drink cold water. Chant the Divine Name. Then your anger will gradually subside. If your anger persists > go to a place of solitude and walk briskly for half a mile. Thus > there are many easy paths to control one's anger. But the youth today are not making any effort to control their anger. Whenever they get angry > they take it as an opportunity to hurl abuses at others. It is the worst sin. Through prayer and contemplation on God > you should try to control the evil qualities in you. > > Embodiments of Love! > > First of all control your vision and tongue. You are incurring a lot of sin because of evil vision and you bound to face its consequences. When you make use of your senses for evil purposes > the children born to you will also be evil-minded. So > see no evil > hear no evil and talk no evil. In olden days > people used to take care to see that pregnant ladies do not see or hear anything bad. They used to narrate to them sacred stories of the Lord > give them good food and convey only good piece of news. They did so because they knew that if the mother had good feelings > then the children born to her also would have good mind. The sins committed by the parents will certainly affect their children too. When Subhadra was in the family way > one day Arjuna was describing to her the intricacies involved in entering the Padmavyuha (lotus maze). He had described to her in detail how to enter the Padmavyuha and when he was about to tell her how to come out of it > Krishna appeared on the scene and took away Arjuna saying > This is not the proper time to talk about these matters. It is not Subhadra but the child in her womb, who has been listening to you all along. > That is the reason why Abhimanyu knew only to enter the Padmavyuha and did not know how to get out of it. As a result > he was caught in the maze > and ultimately was killed. > > God is watching all that you do. You may think that others do not know what you are up to . You may hoodwink others > but can you ever hoodwink God? He know everything. So > always do good. All your sins will be atoned when you make proper use of your senses. When you become angry > you lose all your power of discrimination and behave in an inhuman manner. So > whenever you are angry > leave the place immediately. It is better to be away from sin rather than commit sin and repent later. > > I want to tell you one more point. You may feel pained by what I am going to tell you now > but I am happy about it. From today onwards > I am not going to give Padanamaskar to anybody because I and you are one. God is present in all. Easwara Sarva Bhutanam (God is the indweller in all beings). Understand this truth. From today onwards > I have resolved not to give Namaskars to anybody. You may do Namaskar to your parents as they and you are not aware of the truth that God is present in all. Since I know truth > I shall follow it. The same Atma is present in you > Me and everybody else. So > no one needs to do Namaskars to anybody for that matter. If you still want to do Namaskar > do it mentally. Bring your palms together and say > Swami, I offer my ten senses to You. > That is enough. You don't need to touch My feet to do Namaskar. Understand the truth that God is in you and act accordingly. Then you become God. If somebody is given Namaskar > others are feeling jealous. I am stopping this > practice of giving Namaskars only to see that such feelings of jealousy do not sprout in you. Wherever you are > offer your Namaskar mentally. That gives Me happiness. I have told you this many times > but you have not put it into practice. Touching Swami's feet and extolling Him are wrong practices. From this Guru Purnima > develop sacred feeling and enjoy supreme peace and bliss. Every man aspires to attain Ananda. How can be attain it? There are five sheaths in man - Annamaya Kosha (food sheath) > Pranamaya Kosha (life sheath) > Manomaya Kosha (mental sheath) > Vijnanamaya Kosha (wisdom sheath) and Anandamaya Kosha (bliss sheath). Make every effort to reach Vijnanamaya Kosha. Only then can you attain Anandamaya Kosha. Lead a happy and blissful life and share your happiness with others. You do not know how great this Ananda is. Just as a small piece of wood becomes fire when it cones into contact with fire > so also when you are close to Me mentally > you become Divine. Your mind will be illumined and will dispel the darkness of ignorance in you. > > Do not feel dejected that Swami has spoken to you in this manner. Consider it as good for you. Pleasure is an interval between two pains. When I am walking amongst you > others will find it disturbingif you fall at My feet. From today onwards > make proper use of your senses and follow what has been told to you about Padanamaskar. > > Bhagavan concluded His Discourse with the Bhajan > Prema Mudita Manase Kaho Ram Ram Ram > (The above has been copied from the pamphlet sold by the Prasanthi Nilayam bookshop). > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2001 Report Share Posted July 13, 2001 JAYA JAGANNATHA! Dear Satya, Namaste. > > A very brief answer. > 1.By "REVEALED SCRIPTURES", I mean the Vedas. Some Puranas are good, > but cannot be classified exactly under "revealed" as only the Vedas > are revealed. The Puranas are *based on revealed knowledge. This is > what I have been taught, even at school. Since you asked for > references from the "revealed scriptures" I tried to clarify that > only the Vedas are considered as "revealed". I won't argue this point, as it has no direct astrological significance. But you will find a complete proof for Puranas being equally divine to Vedas in Sri Jiva Gpswami's Tattwa-sandarbha. I recommend you to read it. Both Sanskrit and English versions are in print. > > I'm sorry, but I can't agree with your above statement. Right here > >is a reference from the Padma Purana: > > 2. When did I ever say that you wont find references in the Puranas. > > > So if someone thoroughly researches Puranas, the Gita and > >Upanisads, I'm sure he will find a lot oo reference for the > >classification of karmic reactions. > > That is exactly what my point is. The references to karmic reactions > as you have given are not the same as kinds of karma. And as you said I have given the list. Aprarabhdha, Prarabdha, Koota, Beeja and Phalaunmukha. These are the types. This is shastric. Your reference was not proven to be shastric to this point. You have cited in your other letter many great Swamis' versions. Certainly my respects are theirs because they were great jnaanis, but I couldn;t trace in your quites any reference to any scriptures by any of them. So please show me exact references in Veda, Puran, Upanishad etc. for the types of karmas listed by you. Then I will accept. This was what I mentioned before. A saint's statement must be based on the revealed scrpitures, and he should show that they are, not just make us believe it. Lrishna says in the Gita tha the austerity of the speech is to quote shastra when you speak. So we should follow this instruction of Sri Krishna. By the way I suggest to drop this thread unless you can prove your point with shastric reference. Yours, Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer <gauranga Phone: +36-309-140-839 Jyotish Remedies: WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET _______ Get your free @ address at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2001 Report Share Posted July 13, 2001 I would really prefer it if there was no unnecessary attempt to censor the views in this group. As far as I understand it, this is not a proselytising group, and freedom of thought and belief are of the essence in any growth. Satya's understanding makes sense to me. I sometimes feel as if he and Narasimha are two sides of the same coin, and I find both their teachings go to my core of understanding. It would be a great loss if either were to be constrained in expressing their views. Regards, Nimmi Ragavan - "Gauranga Das" <gauranga <vedic astrology> Friday, July 13, 2001 1:28 PM Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Karma and Purushardha > > JAYA JAGANNATHA! > > Dear Satya, > > Namaste. > > > > A very brief answer. > > 1.By "REVEALED SCRIPTURES", I mean the Vedas. Some Puranas are good, > > but cannot be classified exactly under "revealed" as only the Vedas > > are revealed. The Puranas are *based on revealed knowledge. This is > > what I have been taught, even at school. Since you asked for > > references from the "revealed scriptures" I tried to clarify that > > only the Vedas are considered as "revealed". > > I won't argue this point, as it has no direct astrological significance. But > you will find a complete proof for Puranas being equally divine to Vedas in > Sri Jiva Gpswami's Tattwa-sandarbha. I recommend you to read it. Both > Sanskrit and English versions are in print. > > > > I'm sorry, but I can't agree with your above statement. Right here > > >is a reference from the Padma Purana: > > > > 2. When did I ever say that you wont find references in the Puranas. > > > > > So if someone thoroughly researches Puranas, the Gita and > > >Upanisads, I'm sure he will find a lot oo reference for the > > >classification of karmic reactions. > > > > That is exactly what my point is. The references to karmic reactions > > as you have given are not the same as kinds of karma. And as you said > > I have given the list. Aprarabhdha, Prarabdha, Koota, Beeja and > Phalaunmukha. These are the types. This is shastric. Your reference was not > proven to be shastric to this point. You have cited in your other letter > many great Swamis' versions. Certainly my respects are theirs because they > were great jnaanis, but I couldn;t trace in your quites any reference to any > scriptures by any of them. So please show me exact references in Veda, > Puran, Upanishad etc. for the types of karmas listed by you. Then I will > accept. This was what I mentioned before. A saint's statement must be based > on the revealed scrpitures, and he should show that they are, not just make > us believe it. Lrishna says in the Gita tha the austerity of the speech is > to quote shastra when you speak. So we should follow this instruction of Sri > Krishna. > > By the way I suggest to drop this thread unless you can prove your point > with shastric reference. > > Yours, > > Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer > <gauranga > Phone: +36-309-140-839 > Jyotish Remedies: > WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET > > > > > > _______ > > Get your free @ address at > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2001 Report Share Posted July 16, 2001 Dear Nimmi, I agree with you that freedom of thought is so very IMPORTANT that I am learning a lot being OPEN MIND Regards Vissie > Nimmi Ragavan[sMTP:106350.3660] > Reply vedic astrology > 14 July 2001 02:46 > vedic astrology > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Karma and Purushardha > > I would really prefer it if there was no unnecessary attempt to censor the > views in this group. As far as I understand it, this is not a > proselytising > group, and freedom of thought and belief are of the essence in any growth. > > Satya's understanding makes sense to me. I sometimes feel as if he and > Narasimha are two sides of the same coin, and I find both their teachings > go > to my core of understanding. It would be a great loss if either were to be > constrained in expressing their views. > > Regards, > > Nimmi Ragavan > > - > "Gauranga Das" <gauranga > <vedic astrology> > Friday, July 13, 2001 1:28 PM > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Karma and Purushardha > > > > > > JAYA JAGANNATHA! > > > > Dear Satya, > > > > Namaste. > > > > > > A very brief answer. > > > 1.By "REVEALED SCRIPTURES", I mean the Vedas. Some Puranas are good, > > > but cannot be classified exactly under "revealed" as only the Vedas > > > are revealed. The Puranas are *based on revealed knowledge. This is > > > what I have been taught, even at school. Since you asked for > > > references from the "revealed scriptures" I tried to clarify that > > > only the Vedas are considered as "revealed". > > > > I won't argue this point, as it has no direct astrological significance. > But > > you will find a complete proof for Puranas being equally divine to Vedas > in > > Sri Jiva Gpswami's Tattwa-sandarbha. I recommend you to read it. Both > > Sanskrit and English versions are in print. > > > > > > I'm sorry, but I can't agree with your above statement. Right here > > > >is a reference from the Padma Purana: > > > > > > 2. When did I ever say that you wont find references in the Puranas. > > > > > > > So if someone thoroughly researches Puranas, the Gita and > > > >Upanisads, I'm sure he will find a lot oo reference for the > > > >classification of karmic reactions. > > > > > > That is exactly what my point is. The references to karmic reactions > > > as you have given are not the same as kinds of karma. And as you said > > > > I have given the list. Aprarabhdha, Prarabdha, Koota, Beeja and > > Phalaunmukha. These are the types. This is shastric. Your reference was > not > > proven to be shastric to this point. You have cited in your other letter > > many great Swamis' versions. Certainly my respects are theirs because > they > > were great jnaanis, but I couldn;t trace in your quites any reference to > any > > scriptures by any of them. So please show me exact references in Veda, > > Puran, Upanishad etc. for the types of karmas listed by you. Then I will > > accept. This was what I mentioned before. A saint's statement must be > based > > on the revealed scrpitures, and he should show that they are, not just > make > > us believe it. Lrishna says in the Gita tha the austerity of the speech > is > > to quote shastra when you speak. So we should follow this instruction of > Sri > > Krishna. > > > > By the way I suggest to drop this thread unless you can prove your point > > with shastric reference. > > > > Yours, > > > > Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer > > <gauranga > > Phone: +36-309-140-839 > > Jyotish Remedies: > > WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET > > > > > > > > > > > > _______ > > > > Get your free @ address at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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