Career success (Tendulkar's chart as example)

[Guest guest]

The mid heaven would change with the change of location and time......

-

<mahalinga_iyer

<vedic astrology>

Saturday, June 23, 2001 12:10 AM

[vedic astrology] Career success (Tendulkar's chart as example)

 

 

>

>

> Let us take the example of famous Indian cricketer, Sachin Tendulkar

> to see whether astrology can be used to predict career/success in a

> deterministic manner.

>

> Tendulkar was born on 23 April 1973. Please bear with me as I put

> together some background information...

>

> I found the population of Bombay estimated to be 6 million in 1973

> (on a website whose URL I did not copy - I can locate it via web

> search if needed). The populations of Calcutta, Delhi and Chennai

> have been extrapolated from the Bombay population (they are all less

> than Bombay).

>

> So, we have:

>

> Population of Bombay in 1973 : 6 million

> Population of Calcutta in 1973 : 4 million

> Population of Delhi in 1973 : 3 million

> Population of Chennai in 1973 : 3 million

>

> I will take an annual birth rate of 3 percent for 1973 for all these

> major cities. ( Quote from mapsindia.com: "The birth rate of India

> has declined from 40 per 1000 in the 1960s to 28 in 1995-96." ).

>

> So, in 1973,

>

> Bombay had 6 million x 0.03 = 180,000 births (or 493 people / day)

> Calcutta had 4 million x 0.03 = 120,000 births (or 328 people / day)

> Delhi had 3 million x 0.03 = 90,000 births (or 246 people / day)

> Chennai had 3 million x 0.03 = 90,000 births (or 246 people / day)

>

> This again translates to:

>

> Bombay had 21 people born each hour.

> Calcutta had 14 people born each hour.

> Delhi had 10 people born each hour.

> Chennai had 10 people born each hour.

>

> Consider 23 April 1973, 16:31:10 in Bombay. Lagna is Virgo, 6 deg 0

> min. By Narasimha's recommendation (in an old post), we assume

> Sachin's D-10 lagna to be in Cancer. The D-10 lagna remains in

> Cancer till 16:43:45.

>

> In other words, the combination of D-1 and D-10 remains for nearly

> 13 min. All divisional charts of coarser resolution will remain the

> same, ie D-3, D-4, D-5, D-6, D-7, D-8, D-9 and D-10 will be the same.

>

> Now, considering the earth's distance from the planets, the distance

> between Bombay to Chennai etc is trivial. The only thing that is

> making the charts change with place is the ascendant. So, if we

> change the time slightly for each place, we should get an ascendant

> of Virgo 6 deg 0 min, while not affecting the placement of any of

> the planets.

>

> In other words, for 4/23/1973, we get identical D-1 through D-10:

>

> In Calcutta, between 15:29:10 and 15:42:00,

> In Delhi, between 16:13:35 and 16:27:10

> In Chennai, between 16:01:33 and 16:13:38.

>

> (In each case, for approximately 12 minutes).

>

> So, taking the average births per hour for each city (computed

> above), In this 12 minute period (ie 0.2 hours), we could have:

>

> Bombay: 21 births / hour = 4 births

> Calcutta: 14 births / hour = 3 births

> Delhi: 10 births / hour = 2 births

> Chennai: 10 births / hour = 2 births

>

> In other words, *considering India's major cities alone* for that

> date, one can potentially find eleven people with Sachin

> Tendulkar's D-1, D-3, D-4, D-5, D-7, D-9 and D-10.

>

> If we took other cities in India into account, we could potentially

> find such windows of time (for identical D-1 through D-10) for each

> place, and if we similarly used the population of that place and the

> birth rate, I would not be surprised if we came up with 20-50 people

> with charts matching Tendulkar's D-1 ... D-10.

>

> Yet, we have only one sportsman of the caliber of Tendulkar. Most

> Indians would agree that in his generation atleast, there is nobody

> even remotely close to him in stature, fame or earnings. So, what

> are we to conclude?

>

> 1. There was nobody else born in India with the same D-1 ... D-10 of

> Tendulkar. In other words, somehow or the other, against the

> probabilities, nobody else was born during those time windows,

> among the 41,000 people born in India on 23 Apr 1973 ( approx 500

> million people in 1973, with an approx annual birth rate of 3

> percent).

>

> OR

>

> 2. Among many people with near identical charts, one may prove to be

> exceptional, and God alone knows why. Astrology as we practice it,

> cannot really explain why (unless D-150 or D-300 have an answer).

>

> OR

>

> ???

>

> Comments invited -- the figures I have used for population and birth

> rate are not exact, but please concentrate on the logic, not the

> specifics (the date/time windows for the same D-1 ... D-10 are exact).

>

>

> I remain,

>

> Mahalinga Iyer.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Mahalinga,

 

 

But as explained earlier D60 also plays an imprtant part in delineation of the

chart.

 

If we consider this D60, then Lagna changes from Vi for Sachin to Li at

16:33:15. But even before that Mo changes sign from Ar to Ta @ 16:32:45.

 

So there are changes!!!

 

For an expert with knowledge to decipher D60 this could be more than enough.

 

Another point, if we consider 21 birth's per hour for BBay, then that boils down

to birth every 3 minutes(although this may vary as we are considering even

distribution here).

 

3 minutes makes chart considerably different!!!!

 

In fact there is an example of Satyam & Shivam Gaur with time difference of

2minutes and they have different D9.

 

Why not consider the WAUGH twins, Steve & Mark, they have the same profession,

they were born around 20 minutes apart and hence there are slight difference in

performance & timings.

 

BTW, DKP factors do influence, but its not the be all and end all of prediction.

If a chart denotes a muscular person, its quite obvious that the person with

African descent is going to be more muscular than the Indian one. Thus

prediction should be made against such background.

 

Similarly a countries chart also influences its citizens. But that does not mean

that we have to start looking at the countries chart for each and every

native!!!!

 

For example, if an Indian wins a beauty pageant then it will be clearly shown in

the chart of India. In fact on the basis of this a certain astrologer had

predicted success in beauty contests for the country in the past years.

 

Having said this, if we go back to the question of births within 15 seconds of

each other, I dont have any answer now, but it is my endeavour to work

diligently on these matters and come up with pragmatic solutions.

 

Rather than jumping to conclusions that Astrology is not a science, I would

rather put my effort on uncovering what we dont know and decipher our

Astrological texts that our illustrious Ancestors & Rishis have put together

with lot of pain.

 

Good questions Mahalinga, whats your take on this????

 

Regards

Narayan

 

 

 

 

 

vedic astrology, mahalinga_iyer wrote:

>

> Let us take the example of famous Indian cricketer, Sachin Tendulkar

> to see whether astrology can be used to predict career/success in a

> deterministic manner.

>

> Tendulkar was born on 23 April 1973. Please bear with me as I put

> together some background information...

>

> I found the population of Bombay estimated to be 6 million in 1973

> (on a website whose URL I did not copy - I can locate it via web

> search if needed). The populations of Calcutta, Delhi and Chennai

> have been extrapolated from the Bombay population (they are all less

> than Bombay).

>

> So, we have:

>

> Population of Bombay in 1973 : 6 million

> Population of Calcutta in 1973 : 4 million

> Population of Delhi in 1973 : 3 million

> Population of Chennai in 1973 : 3 million

>

> I will take an annual birth rate of 3 percent for 1973 for all these

> major cities. ( Quote from mapsindia.com: "The birth rate of India

> has declined from 40 per 1000 in the 1960s to 28 in 1995-96." ).

>

> So, in 1973,

>

> Bombay had 6 million x 0.03 = 180,000 births (or 493 people / day)

> Calcutta had 4 million x 0.03 = 120,000 births (or 328 people / day)

> Delhi had 3 million x 0.03 = 90,000 births (or 246 people / day)

> Chennai had 3 million x 0.03 = 90,000 births (or 246 people / day)

>

> This again translates to:

>

> Bombay had 21 people born each hour.

> Calcutta had 14 people born each hour.

> Delhi had 10 people born each hour.

> Chennai had 10 people born each hour.

>

> Consider 23 April 1973, 16:31:10 in Bombay. Lagna is Virgo, 6 deg 0

> min. By Narasimha's recommendation (in an old post), we assume

> Sachin's D-10 lagna to be in Cancer. The D-10 lagna remains in

> Cancer till 16:43:45.

>

> In other words, the combination of D-1 and D-10 remains for nearly

> 13 min. All divisional charts of coarser resolution will remain the

> same, ie D-3, D-4, D-5, D-6, D-7, D-8, D-9 and D-10 will be the same.

>

> Now, considering the earth's distance from the planets, the distance

> between Bombay to Chennai etc is trivial. The only thing that is

> making the charts change with place is the ascendant. So, if we

> change the time slightly for each place, we should get an ascendant

> of Virgo 6 deg 0 min, while not affecting the placement of any of

> the planets.

>

> In other words, for 4/23/1973, we get identical D-1 through D-10:

>

> In Calcutta, between 15:29:10 and 15:42:00,

> In Delhi, between 16:13:35 and 16:27:10

> In Chennai, between 16:01:33 and 16:13:38.

>

> (In each case, for approximately 12 minutes).

>

> So, taking the average births per hour for each city (computed

> above), In this 12 minute period (ie 0.2 hours), we could have:

>

> Bombay: 21 births / hour = 4 births

> Calcutta: 14 births / hour = 3 births

> Delhi: 10 births / hour = 2 births

> Chennai: 10 births / hour = 2 births

>

> In other words, *considering India's major cities alone* for that

> date, one can potentially find eleven people with Sachin

> Tendulkar's D-1, D-3, D-4, D-5, D-7, D-9 and D-10.

>

> If we took other cities in India into account, we could potentially

> find such windows of time (for identical D-1 through D-10) for each

> place, and if we similarly used the population of that place and the

> birth rate, I would not be surprised if we came up with 20-50 people

> with charts matching Tendulkar's D-1 ... D-10.

>

> Yet, we have only one sportsman of the caliber of Tendulkar. Most

> Indians would agree that in his generation atleast, there is nobody

> even remotely close to him in stature, fame or earnings. So, what

> are we to conclude?

>

> 1. There was nobody else born in India with the same D-1 ... D-10 of

> Tendulkar. In other words, somehow or the other, against the

> probabilities, nobody else was born during those time windows,

> among the 41,000 people born in India on 23 Apr 1973 ( approx 500

> million people in 1973, with an approx annual birth rate of 3

> percent).

>

> OR

>

> 2. Among many people with near identical charts, one may prove to be

> exceptional, and God alone knows why. Astrology as we practice it,

> cannot really explain why (unless D-150 or D-300 have an answer).

>

> OR

>

> ???

>

> Comments invited -- the figures I have used for population and birth

> rate are not exact, but please concentrate on the logic, not the

> specifics (the date/time windows for the same D-1 ... D-10 are exact).

>

>

> I remain,

>

> Mahalinga Iyer.

[Guest guest]

This is a great article; I try hard to stay away from debates and usually

hit the delete key as soon as I sense one.

 

By mere strength of your brilliant logic and presentation, I was forced to

read through this article. At first, I was confused to what your point or

intended question was (as I had not been keeping up.....). Nevertheless

your note stirred some thoughts and emotions which I share below.

 

You are absolutely right my friend. God is only one to know it all

PRECISELY and ACCURATELY.

 

I think the subtle point in your note is revolved around precision. We

(astrologers) do not have precision; we admit we deal with ranges and

probabilities. Astrologer who is precise (or strives to be) can be

precisely right or precisely wrong.

 

Let me expand.....

 

You state that there may be x number of people with similar charts. I

accept. You state that there is only one Sachin. I accept.

But I don't know of any astrologer who could predict precisely that Sachin

will become Sachin i.e. # 1 in his field. A lof of astrologers can predict

he will be a sportsman and enjoy tremendous success in terms of fame,

wealth, etc. but anything more.............

 

Astrologers would probably predict similar things for others with similar

charts. The real test / defeat will come if a person with similar chart is

totally on the other end of the spectrum..... We don't know the life

stories of these others to test these possibilities.

 

Let me present another example.....

 

Narasimha has presented a brilliant analysis on his web-site re. twins. He

has successfully and logically identified the reasons for the differences.

He could do so because of two reasons: he had the two charts; he

painstakingly spent the time necessary to do a detailed study and identify

the (reasons for) differences. (Ofcourse, he had to have the requisite

knowledge also.)

 

He has successfully demonstrated the techniques to narrow the

probabilities.

 

But we are far from establishing precise and complete knowledge.

Furthermore, most astrologers (other than the research-oriented) will never

spend this amount of time for detailed analysis. As well, to a certain

extent, it is probably only possible in hindsight because there are much

too many details and opportunities for error.

 

So what does this mean???

 

Are we wrong? Absolutely not.

Do we have limitations? Ofcourse.

Can we ever overcome these limitations? I think, slowly we can get better

Can Astrology be precise? We will never know until we succeed (to succeed

we have to keep trying).

 

I hope I have addressed your concerns .......

 

 

Best Regards,

 

SA

 

 

mahalinga_iyer on 06/22/2001 04:10:52 PM

 

Please respond to vedic astrology

 

vedic astrology

cc:

[vedic astrology] Career success (Tendulkar's chart as example)

 

 

 

Let us take the example of famous Indian cricketer, Sachin Tendulkar

to see whether astrology can be used to predict career/success in a

deterministic manner.

 

Tendulkar was born on 23 April 1973. Please bear with me as I put

together some background information...

 

I found the population of Bombay estimated to be 6 million in 1973

(on a website whose URL I did not copy - I can locate it via web

search if needed). The populations of Calcutta, Delhi and Chennai

have been extrapolated from the Bombay population (they are all less

than Bombay).

 

So, we have:

 

Population of Bombay in 1973 : 6 million

Population of Calcutta in 1973 : 4 million

Population of Delhi in 1973 : 3 million

Population of Chennai in 1973 : 3 million

 

I will take an annual birth rate of 3 percent for 1973 for all these

major cities. ( Quote from mapsindia.com: "The birth rate of India

has declined from 40 per 1000 in the 1960s to 28 in 1995-96." ).

 

So, in 1973,

 

Bombay had 6 million x 0.03 = 180,000 births (or 493 people / day)

Calcutta had 4 million x 0.03 = 120,000 births (or 328 people / day)

Delhi had 3 million x 0.03 = 90,000 births (or 246 people / day)

Chennai had 3 million x 0.03 = 90,000 births (or 246 people / day)

 

This again translates to:

 

Bombay had 21 people born each hour.

Calcutta had 14 people born each hour.

Delhi had 10 people born each hour.

Chennai had 10 people born each hour.

 

Consider 23 April 1973, 16:31:10 in Bombay. Lagna is Virgo, 6 deg 0

min. By Narasimha's recommendation (in an old post), we assume

Sachin's D-10 lagna to be in Cancer. The D-10 lagna remains in

Cancer till 16:43:45.

 

In other words, the combination of D-1 and D-10 remains for nearly

13 min. All divisional charts of coarser resolution will remain the

same, ie D-3, D-4, D-5, D-6, D-7, D-8, D-9 and D-10 will be the same.

 

Now, considering the earth's distance from the planets, the distance

between Bombay to Chennai etc is trivial. The only thing that is

making the charts change with place is the ascendant. So, if we

change the time slightly for each place, we should get an ascendant

of Virgo 6 deg 0 min, while not affecting the placement of any of

the planets.

 

In other words, for 4/23/1973, we get identical D-1 through D-10:

 

In Calcutta, between 15:29:10 and 15:42:00,

In Delhi, between 16:13:35 and 16:27:10

In Chennai, between 16:01:33 and 16:13:38.

 

(In each case, for approximately 12 minutes).

 

So, taking the average births per hour for each city (computed

above), In this 12 minute period (ie 0.2 hours), we could have:

 

Bombay: 21 births / hour = 4 births

Calcutta: 14 births / hour = 3 births

Delhi: 10 births / hour = 2 births

Chennai: 10 births / hour = 2 births

 

In other words, *considering India's major cities alone* for that

date, one can potentially find eleven people with Sachin

Tendulkar's D-1, D-3, D-4, D-5, D-7, D-9 and D-10.

 

If we took other cities in India into account, we could potentially

find such windows of time (for identical D-1 through D-10) for each

place, and if we similarly used the population of that place and the

birth rate, I would not be surprised if we came up with 20-50 people

with charts matching Tendulkar's D-1 ... D-10.

 

Yet, we have only one sportsman of the caliber of Tendulkar. Most

Indians would agree that in his generation atleast, there is nobody

even remotely close to him in stature, fame or earnings. So, what

are we to conclude?

 

1. There was nobody else born in India with the same D-1 ... D-10 of

Tendulkar. In other words, somehow or the other, against the

probabilities, nobody else was born during those time windows,

among the 41,000 people born in India on 23 Apr 1973 ( approx 500

million people in 1973, with an approx annual birth rate of 3

percent).

 

OR

 

2. Among many people with near identical charts, one may prove to be

exceptional, and God alone knows why. Astrology as we practice it,

cannot really explain why (unless D-150 or D-300 have an answer).

 

OR

 

???

 

Comments invited -- the figures I have used for population and birth

rate are not exact, but please concentrate on the logic, not the

specifics (the date/time windows for the same D-1 ... D-10 are exact).

 

 

I remain,

 

Mahalinga Iyer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

[Guest guest]

I just read Narayan's article. An addendum to my note if your point was

Astrology is not science....

 

Again, I would probably agree that at this stage I don't know if it could

be completely termed as a Science....(let's ignore the debate of Exact vs.

Proabilistic Science for a minute....)

 

I mean, ya I agree, Intuition has a lot to do with it also. (With

intuition, reading is so much more accurate even when applying same

principles... I have experienced it and is probably the best explanation I

can offer at this stage....)

 

But Astrology definitely falls within the category of Science. To prove

this statement, we must establish a definition of Science. I view Science

as researching/experimenting and identifying/establishing

parameters/principles/formulas which can produce replicable results.

 

Certainly, Astrology falls within this definition. The question of

consistency depends on a lot of factors: (1) as I have already mentioned,

it is probabilistic; (2) the skill and capability of the astrologer; (3)

the accuracy of birth time; and we can go on.....

 

The point is, we cannot term it 'non-scientific' just because we don't

have perfect consistency. We need to recognize and accept those

consistencies that exist and continue to experiment. (This process is no

different than the process leading to other discoveries and inventions).

 

I think people confuse between two distinct issues:

 

One is does Astrology have any merit to be declared a Science? I think

there is sufficient evidence to merit further research.

Second is why is it so (why do sun, moon , and other planets have any

bearing on our destiny)? This question is a little more tricky to answer

but if we did know it will it change the effect of the first..... Did

gravity not exist or work until we discovered gravity???

 

I am now starting to enter the domain of philosopy which is not my

intention.So I must end here. Hopefully, I have given you some food for

thought....

 

Best Regards,

 

SA

---------------------- Forwarded by Sanjiv Aggarwal/CanWest/IBM on

06/22/2001 06:10 PM ---------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

Sanjiv Aggarwal

06/22/2001 06:07 PM

 

 

vedic astrology

cc:

 

Sanjiv Aggarwal/CanWest/IBM@IBMCA

Re: [vedic astrology] Career success (Tendulkar's chart as

example)

Importance: Normal

 

 

This is a great article; I try hard to stay away from debates and usually

hit the delete key as soon as I sense one.

 

By mere strength of your brilliant logic and presentation, I was forced to

read through this article. At first, I was confused to what your point or

intended question was (as I had not been keeping up.....). Nevertheless

your note stirred some thoughts and emotions which I share below.

 

You are absolutely right my friend. God is only one to know it all

PRECISELY and ACCURATELY.

 

I think the subtle point in your note is revolved around precision. We

(astrologers) do not have precision; we admit we deal with ranges and

probabilities. Astrologer who is precise (or strives to be) can be

precisely right or precisely wrong.

 

Let me expand.....

 

You state that there may be x number of people with similar charts. I

accept. You state that there is only one Sachin. I accept.

But I don't know of any astrologer who could predict precisely that Sachin

will become Sachin i.e. # 1 in his field. A lof of astrologers can predict

he will be a sportsman and enjoy tremendous success in terms of fame,

wealth, etc. but anything more.............

 

Astrologers would probably predict similar things for others with similar

charts. The real test / defeat will come if a person with similar chart is

totally on the other end of the spectrum..... We don't know the life

stories of these others to test these possibilities.

 

Let me present another example.....

 

Narasimha has presented a brilliant analysis on his web-site re. twins. He

has successfully and logically identified the reasons for the differences.

He could do so because of two reasons: he had the two charts; he

painstakingly spent the time necessary to do a detailed study and identify

the (reasons for) differences. (Ofcourse, he had to have the requisite

knowledge also.)

 

He has successfully demonstrated the techniques to narrow the

probabilities.

 

But we are far from establishing precise and complete knowledge.

Furthermore, most astrologers (other than the research-oriented) will never

spend this amount of time for detailed analysis. As well, to a certain

extent, it is probably only possible in hindsight because there are much

too many details and opportunities for error.

 

So what does this mean???

 

Are we wrong? Absolutely not.

Do we have limitations? Ofcourse.

Can we ever overcome these limitations? I think, slowly we can get better

Can Astrology be precise? We will never know until we succeed (to succeed

we have to keep trying).

 

I hope I have addressed your concerns .......

 

 

Best Regards,

 

SA

 

 

mahalinga_iyer on 06/22/2001 04:10:52 PM

 

Please respond to vedic astrology

 

vedic astrology

cc:

[vedic astrology] Career success (Tendulkar's chart as example)

 

 

 

Let us take the example of famous Indian cricketer, Sachin Tendulkar

to see whether astrology can be used to predict career/success in a

deterministic manner.

 

Tendulkar was born on 23 April 1973. Please bear with me as I put

together some background information...

 

I found the population of Bombay estimated to be 6 million in 1973

(on a website whose URL I did not copy - I can locate it via web

search if needed). The populations of Calcutta, Delhi and Chennai

have been extrapolated from the Bombay population (they are all less

than Bombay).

 

So, we have:

 

Population of Bombay in 1973 : 6 million

Population of Calcutta in 1973 : 4 million

Population of Delhi in 1973 : 3 million

Population of Chennai in 1973 : 3 million

 

I will take an annual birth rate of 3 percent for 1973 for all these

major cities. ( Quote from mapsindia.com: "The birth rate of India

has declined from 40 per 1000 in the 1960s to 28 in 1995-96." ).

 

So, in 1973,

 

Bombay had 6 million x 0.03 = 180,000 births (or 493 people / day)

Calcutta had 4 million x 0.03 = 120,000 births (or 328 people / day)

Delhi had 3 million x 0.03 = 90,000 births (or 246 people / day)

Chennai had 3 million x 0.03 = 90,000 births (or 246 people / day)

 

This again translates to:

 

Bombay had 21 people born each hour.

Calcutta had 14 people born each hour.

Delhi had 10 people born each hour.

Chennai had 10 people born each hour.

 

Consider 23 April 1973, 16:31:10 in Bombay. Lagna is Virgo, 6 deg 0

min. By Narasimha's recommendation (in an old post), we assume

Sachin's D-10 lagna to be in Cancer. The D-10 lagna remains in

Cancer till 16:43:45.

 

In other words, the combination of D-1 and D-10 remains for nearly

13 min. All divisional charts of coarser resolution will remain the

same, ie D-3, D-4, D-5, D-6, D-7, D-8, D-9 and D-10 will be the same.

 

Now, considering the earth's distance from the planets, the distance

between Bombay to Chennai etc is trivial. The only thing that is

making the charts change with place is the ascendant. So, if we

change the time slightly for each place, we should get an ascendant

of Virgo 6 deg 0 min, while not affecting the placement of any of

the planets.

 

In other words, for 4/23/1973, we get identical D-1 through D-10:

 

In Calcutta, between 15:29:10 and 15:42:00,

In Delhi, between 16:13:35 and 16:27:10

In Chennai, between 16:01:33 and 16:13:38.

 

(In each case, for approximately 12 minutes).

 

So, taking the average births per hour for each city (computed

above), In this 12 minute period (ie 0.2 hours), we could have:

 

Bombay: 21 births / hour = 4 births

Calcutta: 14 births / hour = 3 births

Delhi: 10 births / hour = 2 births

Chennai: 10 births / hour = 2 births

 

In other words, *considering India's major cities alone* for that

date, one can potentially find eleven people with Sachin

Tendulkar's D-1, D-3, D-4, D-5, D-7, D-9 and D-10.

 

If we took other cities in India into account, we could potentially

find such windows of time (for identical D-1 through D-10) for each

place, and if we similarly used the population of that place and the

birth rate, I would not be surprised if we came up with 20-50 people

with charts matching Tendulkar's D-1 ... D-10.

 

Yet, we have only one sportsman of the caliber of Tendulkar. Most

Indians would agree that in his generation atleast, there is nobody

even remotely close to him in stature, fame or earnings. So, what

are we to conclude?

 

1. There was nobody else born in India with the same D-1 ... D-10 of

Tendulkar. In other words, somehow or the other, against the

probabilities, nobody else was born during those time windows,

among the 41,000 people born in India on 23 Apr 1973 ( approx 500

million people in 1973, with an approx annual birth rate of 3

percent).

 

OR

 

2. Among many people with near identical charts, one may prove to be

exceptional, and God alone knows why. Astrology as we practice it,

cannot really explain why (unless D-150 or D-300 have an answer).

 

OR

 

???

 

Comments invited -- the figures I have used for population and birth

rate are not exact, but please concentrate on the logic, not the

specifics (the date/time windows for the same D-1 ... D-10 are exact).

 

 

I remain,

 

Mahalinga Iyer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

[Guest guest]

Dear Mahalinga,

What we do in this birth may depend highly on what we did in our past

life. If we did good things in last life,

we would have amassed positive karma which would help us in this life.

How ever, even as your questions are good, please note that science

need not have 100% success rate.

For example, in Probability, we assume that a general coin, when tossed

has 50-50 chances to show heads

or tails. Is this really true? It depends on the wind, spin one is

giving while tossing, direction in which force was

applied while tossing etc all may matter. These are the things that

we are able to think of. There may be lot of

other things. But, since, Probability is not able to consider all of

them, and just assumes that the both events are

equally probable should we dismiss probability? No.

Even if both the events are equally likely, it is not guarenteed that

in finite number of tosses, number of heads and number of tails are same!!

You consider a continual randam destribution like Normal(0,1). The probability

that a random variable that follows this destribution takes a particular

value is 0. But, still we have observations from the destribution.

All these seem to be contradictions.

So, do not really bother about can we exactly tell some thing from horoscope

or not.

Let us consider this case:

Some one want to know future prospects of person A.

He asks an astrologer Mr. X and one command man Y.

Both X and Y know exactly same details about Mr. A.

Now, if X has better chances of giving correct guesses compared to Mr

Y

(Please excuseme, above I should have written Mr/Mrs/Ms for A, X and

Y).

If P(X has better guesses compared to Y) is significant where X is

any astrologer and Y is any non astrologer,

then Astrology is no doubt usefull.

Narayan Iyer wrote:

Namaste Mahalinga,

 

But as explained earlier D60 also plays an imprtant part in delineation

of the chart.

If we consider this D60, then Lagna changes from Vi for Sachin to

Li at 16:33:15. But even before that Mo changes sign from Ar to Ta @ 16:32:45.

So there are changes!!!

For an expert with knowledge to decipher D60 this could be more

than enough.

Another point, if we consider 21 birth's per hour for BBay, then

that boils down to birth every 3 minutes(although this may vary as we are

considering even distribution here).

3 minutes makes chart considerably different!!!!

In fact there is an example of Satyam & Shivam Gaur with time

difference of 2minutes and they have different D9.

Why not consider the WAUGH twins, Steve & Mark, they have the

same profession, they were born around 20 minutes apart and hence there

are slight difference in performance & timings.

BTW, DKP factors do influence, but its not the be all and end all

of prediction. If a chart denotes a muscular person, its quite obvious

that the person with African descent is going to be more muscular than

the Indian one. Thus prediction should be made against such background.

Similarly a countries chart also influences its citizens. But that

does not mean that we have to start looking at the countries chart for

each and every native!!!!

For example, if an Indian wins a beauty pageant then it will be

clearly shown in the chart of India. In fact on the basis of this a certain

astrologer had predicted success in beauty contests for the country in

the past years.

Having said this, if we go back to the question of births within

15 seconds of each other, I dont have any answer now, but it is my endeavour

to work diligently on these matters and come up with pragmatic solutions.

Rather than jumping to conclusions that Astrology is not a science,

I would rather put my effort on uncovering what we dont know and decipher

our Astrological texts that our illustrious Ancestors & Rishis have

put together with lot of pain.

Good questions Mahalinga, whats your take on this????

Regards

Narayan

 

 

 

 

vedic astrology, mahalinga_iyer wrote:

>

> Let us take the example of famous Indian cricketer, Sachin Tendulkar

> to see whether astrology can be used to predict career/success

in a

> deterministic manner.

>

> Tendulkar was born on 23 April 1973. Please bear with me as I

put

> together some background information...

>

> I found the population of Bombay estimated to be 6 million in

1973

> (on a website whose URL I did not copy - I can locate it via

web

> search if needed). The populations of Calcutta, Delhi and Chennai

> have been extrapolated from the Bombay population (they are all

less

> than Bombay).

>

> So, we have:

>

> Population of Bombay in 1973 :

6 million

> Population of Calcutta in 1973

: 4 million

> Population of Delhi in 1973 :

3 million

> Population of Chennai in 1973 :

3 million

>

> I will take an annual birth rate of 3 percent for 1973 for all

these

> major cities. ( Quote from mapsindia.com: "The birth rate of

India

> has declined from 40 per 1000 in the 1960s to 28 in 1995-96."

).

>

> So, in 1973,

>

> Bombay had 6 million x 0.03 = 180,000 births (or 493 people /

day)

> Calcutta had 4 million x 0.03 = 120,000 births (or 328 people

/ day)

> Delhi had 3 million x 0.03 = 90,000 births (or 246 people / day)

> Chennai had 3 million x 0.03 = 90,000 births (or 246 people /

day)

>

> This again translates to:

>

> Bombay had 21 people born each hour.

> Calcutta had 14 people born each hour.

> Delhi had 10 people born each hour.

> Chennai had 10 people born each hour.

>

> Consider 23 April 1973, 16:31:10 in Bombay. Lagna is Virgo, 6

deg 0

> min. By Narasimha's recommendation (in an old post), we assume

> Sachin's D-10 lagna to be in Cancer. The D-10 lagna remains

in

> Cancer till 16:43:45.

>

> In other words, the combination of D-1 and D-10 remains for nearly

> 13 min. All divisional charts of coarser resolution will remain

the

> same, ie D-3, D-4, D-5, D-6, D-7, D-8, D-9 and D-10 will be the

same.

>

> Now, considering the earth's distance from the planets, the distance

> between Bombay to Chennai etc is trivial. The only thing that

is

> making the charts change with place is the ascendant. So, if

we

> change the time slightly for each place, we should get an ascendant

> of Virgo 6 deg 0 min, while not affecting the placement of any

of

> the planets.

>

> In other words, for 4/23/1973, we get identical D-1 through D-10:

>

> In Calcutta, between 15:29:10 and

15:42:00,

> In Delhi, between 16:13:35 and 16:27:10

> In Chennai, between 16:01:33 and 16:13:38.

>

> (In each case, for approximately 12 minutes).

>

> So, taking the average births per hour for each city (computed

> above), In this 12 minute period (ie 0.2 hours), we could have:

>

> Bombay:

21 births / hour = 4 births

> Calcutta: 14 births / hour = 3

births

> Delhi:

10 births / hour = 2 births

> Chennai: 10 births / hour = 2 births

>

> In other words, *considering India's major cities alone* for

that

> date, one can potentially find eleven people with Sachin

> Tendulkar's D-1, D-3, D-4, D-5, D-7, D-9 and D-10.

>

> If we took other cities in India into account, we could potentially

> find such windows of time (for identical D-1 through D-10) for

each

> place, and if we similarly used the population of that place

and the

> birth rate, I would not be surprised if we came up with 20-50

people

> with charts matching Tendulkar's D-1 ... D-10.

>

> Yet, we have only one sportsman of the caliber of Tendulkar.

Most

> Indians would agree that in his generation atleast, there is

nobody

> even remotely close to him in stature, fame or earnings. So,

what

> are we to conclude?

>

> 1. There was nobody else born in India with the same D-1 ...

D-10 of

> Tendulkar. In other words, somehow or the other,

against the

> probabilities, nobody else was born during

those time windows,

> among the 41,000 people born in India on 23

Apr 1973 ( approx 500

> million people in 1973, with an approx annual

birth rate of 3

> percent).

>

> OR

>

> 2. Among many people with near identical charts, one may prove

to be

> exceptional, and God alone knows why.

Astrology as we practice it,

> cannot really explain why (unless D-150 or

D-300 have an answer).

>

> OR

>

> ???

>

> Comments invited -- the figures I have used for population and

birth

> rate are not exact, but please concentrate on the logic, not

the

> specifics (the date/time windows for the same D-1 ... D-10 are

exact).

>

>

> I remain,

>

> Mahalinga Iyer.

 

 

 

 

 

|| Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

Krishnaarpanamastu ||

 

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[Guest guest]

Finding more astro-factors to pin down uniqueness of a chart/ situation as

some have suggested (eg more precision in degrees using say even 3000

divisions of the 360 deg chart, your name, etc etc) will not give u the

answer to yr qn as:

 

1. Centricism: Astrology is native-centric: not "World"-centric by

definition. EVEN if u r using Arudhas, it is all native-centric. EVEN if

all charts are the same for 2 people, a) DKP, b) accumulated Karma after

birth, ie your own actions since birth AND those of others affecting you

come into play. This is the supposed reason for using horary charts.

2. Fate vs free-will: Newer excavations on the situation of human existence

across centuries will periodically result in one of the 2 theories

dominating. E Cayce pushed this even before birth by saying a soul chooses

a birth for its evolution. That material considerations are not the soul's

considerations, which make it choose poverty-stricken parents, to learn a

specific challenge in this lifetime. F Kafka talked about the boundaries of

free-will within which the sum total is a constant (fate) - u can interpret

this free-will as that of 1 person-life, or 1 person over many lifetimes,

as u wish. Essentially, who the hell even knows whether u or an astrologer

or all the astrologers u meet are "fated" to read your chart correctly.

[Guest guest]

With all that is said about this message, I like to

add one more thing - There could have been couple of

other people born at the same time and place - But

that doesnt mean that they had the same father and

mother, grand parents and friends. Since these people

and their body-generated vibrations and hence their

jatakas would have a significant impact on a given

person's life, 2 people born at the same time will

not have the same life.

 

vedic astrology, mahalinga_iyer wrote:

>

> Let us take the example of famous Indian cricketer, Sachin Tendulkar

> to see whether astrology can be used to predict career/success in a

> deterministic manner.

>

> Tendulkar was born on 23 April 1973. Please bear with me as I put

> together some background information...

>

> I found the population of Bombay estimated to be 6 million in 1973

> (on a website whose URL I did not copy - I can locate it via web

> search if needed). The populations of Calcutta, Delhi and Chennai

> have been extrapolated from the Bombay population (they are all less

> than Bombay).

>

> So, we have:

>

> Population of Bombay in 1973 : 6 million

> Population of Calcutta in 1973 : 4 million

> Population of Delhi in 1973 : 3 million

> Population of Chennai in 1973 : 3 million

>

> I will take an annual birth rate of 3 percent for 1973 for all these

> major cities. ( Quote from mapsindia.com: "The birth rate of India

> has declined from 40 per 1000 in the 1960s to 28 in 1995-96." ).

>

> So, in 1973,

>

> Bombay had 6 million x 0.03 = 180,000 births (or 493 people / day)

> Calcutta had 4 million x 0.03 = 120,000 births (or 328 people / day)

> Delhi had 3 million x 0.03 = 90,000 births (or 246 people / day)

> Chennai had 3 million x 0.03 = 90,000 births (or 246 people / day)

>

> This again translates to:

>

> Bombay had 21 people born each hour.

> Calcutta had 14 people born each hour.

> Delhi had 10 people born each hour.

> Chennai had 10 people born each hour.

>

> Consider 23 April 1973, 16:31:10 in Bombay. Lagna is Virgo, 6 deg 0

> min. By Narasimha's recommendation (in an old post), we assume

> Sachin's D-10 lagna to be in Cancer. The D-10 lagna remains in

> Cancer till 16:43:45.

>

> In other words, the combination of D-1 and D-10 remains for nearly

> 13 min. All divisional charts of coarser resolution will remain the

> same, ie D-3, D-4, D-5, D-6, D-7, D-8, D-9 and D-10 will be the

same.

>

> Now, considering the earth's distance from the planets, the distance

> between Bombay to Chennai etc is trivial. The only thing that is

> making the charts change with place is the ascendant. So, if we

> change the time slightly for each place, we should get an ascendant

> of Virgo 6 deg 0 min, while not affecting the placement of any of

> the planets.

>

> In other words, for 4/23/1973, we get identical D-1 through D-10:

>

> In Calcutta, between 15:29:10 and 15:42:00,

> In Delhi, between 16:13:35 and 16:27:10

> In Chennai, between 16:01:33 and 16:13:38.

>

> (In each case, for approximately 12 minutes).

>

> So, taking the average births per hour for each city (computed

> above), In this 12 minute period (ie 0.2 hours), we could have:

>

> Bombay: 21 births / hour = 4 births

> Calcutta: 14 births / hour = 3 births

> Delhi: 10 births / hour = 2 births

> Chennai: 10 births / hour = 2 births

>

> In other words, *considering India's major cities alone* for that

> date, one can potentially find eleven people with Sachin

> Tendulkar's D-1, D-3, D-4, D-5, D-7, D-9 and D-10.

>

> If we took other cities in India into account, we could potentially

> find such windows of time (for identical D-1 through D-10) for each

> place, and if we similarly used the population of that place and the

> birth rate, I would not be surprised if we came up with 20-50 people

> with charts matching Tendulkar's D-1 ... D-10.

>

> Yet, we have only one sportsman of the caliber of Tendulkar. Most

> Indians would agree that in his generation atleast, there is nobody

> even remotely close to him in stature, fame or earnings. So, what

> are we to conclude?

>

> 1. There was nobody else born in India with the same D-1 ... D-10 of

> Tendulkar. In other words, somehow or the other, against the

> probabilities, nobody else was born during those time windows,

> among the 41,000 people born in India on 23 Apr 1973 ( approx 500

> million people in 1973, with an approx annual birth rate of 3

> percent).

>

> OR

>

> 2. Among many people with near identical charts, one may prove to be

> exceptional, and God alone knows why. Astrology as we practice

it,

> cannot really explain why (unless D-150 or D-300 have an answer).

>

> OR

>

> ???

>

> Comments invited -- the figures I have used for population and birth

> rate are not exact, but please concentrate on the logic, not the

> specifics (the date/time windows for the same D-1 ... D-10 are

exact).

>

>

> I remain,

>

> Mahalinga Iyer.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Vinay,

 

>With all that is said about this message, I like to

>add one more thing - There could have been couple of

>other people born at the same time and place - But

>that doesnt mean that they had the same father and

>mother, grand parents and friends. Since these people

>and their body-generated vibrations and hence their

>jatakas would have a significant impact on a given

>person's life, 2 people born at the same time will

>not have the same life.

 

 

Whether you know it or not, you are making a mockery of

Vedic astrology with this answer.

 

If your scenario were to be true, why would anybody look

to a Vedic astrologer for anything? Either you have the

"right" parents, grandparents and friends, or you do not.

 

I remain,

 

Mahalinga Iyer

[Guest guest]

Dear Vinay and Mahalinga.

Two people born with the same Dwadasamsas will have similar activities related

to this division. But this doesn't mean that they have the same parents, but

the parents and the activities related to these parents will be alike.

 

Genetic heritage cannot be seen with the 16 divisions given by Parasara, but we

can go as far as deciding the sex of the person, or atleast rectify it.

 

If the Varga is exactly the same then the life activity signified by it will be

the same as well. But how certain are you that two Vargas are actually

completely the same?

Are you sure you've taken all tools into consideration?

 

Make sure you compute all the given tools by Parasara before answering that one,

and then compare the two charts, then surely you'll begin worrying about the

precission of the two charts, and through rectifying you'll surely see a

significant difference.

 

I have a chart with the same Rasi of an american and an indian. Both are married

and have/are commiting adultery, yet their navamsa aren't the same. One does so

in secret whilst the other does so openly. One has his own business, whilst the

other doesn't. and etc etc.

 

Hope this helps.

Best wishes, Visti.

-

mahalinga_iyer

vedic astrology

Wednesday, June 27, 2001 1:12 AM

[vedic astrology] Re: Career success (Tendulkar's chart as example)

Namaste Vinay,>With all that is said about this message, I like to>add one more

thing - There could have been couple of>other people born at the same time and

place - But>that doesnt mean that they had the same father and>mother, grand

parents and friends. Since these people>and their body-generated vibrations and

hence their >jatakas would have a significant impact on a given>person's life, 2

people born at the same time will>not have the same life.Whether you know it or

not, you are making a mockery of Vedic astrology with this answer.If your

scenario were to be true, why would anybody lookto a Vedic astrologer for

anything? Either you have the"right" parents, grandparents and friends, or you

do not.I remain,Mahalinga IyerArchives:

vedic astrologyGroup info:

vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......

 

[Guest guest]

Dear MahaLinga,

 

You do not have to be condescending to anyone and say that anyone is

making a fool of themselves or vedic astrology. You too claim that u

know vedic astrology but u still do not have answers to the questions

that you have asked. Rather than judging anyone is right or wrong,

spend time in trying to comphrehend the reasons why Senior people on

this list to the likes of Narasimha, Solai, Sarajit etc have asked u

to stop this thread and continue it at a later time.

 

I shall try to answer your question.

Let me begin by saying that no two people can be born in the same

place at the same time.

 

Let me explain my thinking here.

If Sachin Tendulkar was born on a particular day at a particular time

at a particular place (what I mean is a hospital and the location of

hospital bed) depending on the precision of your calculation so no

other person can be born EXACTLY at the same place. Now assuming

another person was born on a bed just besides the mother exactly at

the same time but the LOCATION of the place is still not same. As

the beds are not located at EXACTLY place, there could have been a

meters distance between the beds but there definitely is a distance.

For argument sake assume the distance is even closer. But there is a

distance.

Now as per the current calculations, limitations of compilers when

coding programs to the level of precision one can get, we are bound

by it. Well, if you look at Vedic Math the level of precision that

is used is in very great detail.

Yes true even considering your Hypothetical data of charts being same

upto D60 or even further but what is the basis of calcualation. Even

if we used 15 digits of precision and a very accurate Epimerphis do u

mean to say that there is not something greater than 15 digits of

precision.

Yes there is but we are bound because of your limitation of thinking

and the software etc.

Things are getting smaller and finer, we started with Pc with 8 bits

of precision and went on to XT then AT then pentium then

supercomputer .. etc... all this is happening in the Kali Yuga. We

are getting more and more finer results.

 

Coming back to the concept of distance. Assuming there was a meter

distance between the 2 beds where 2 kids were born at the same time.

But one parameter is still off by 1 meter that is the distance and

that shall always be off.

An Analagy here.

Now if u look at that distance of 1 meter from 10 meters the distance

shrinks and seems smaller in distance from 1 meter. Now u step back

100 meters and look at the same distance between bed u can see maybe

10 inch gap, now go a kilometer and see the same bed.. u can see it

as the same. My point being, What has happened to that distance of 1

meter, just because we are 1 km away does that mean that the distance

of 1 meter has actually shrunk. What I am trying to say is the

limitation of parameters. The subtle difference still remains but we

just cannot see it or it is not reflected with that accuracy. Same

thing then applies to the software that we used to computer.

The use of the divisional charts is just to bring out such subtle

differences. Just because a divisional chart using OUR PROGRAMS and

in KALI YUGA give the same divisions just because that distance of 1

meter between the beds is not reflected because of the limitation

that dont mean that that does not exist.

Vedic Astrology is very precice, its us who have to aspire to get

that kind of precision into our calculations and computations.

 

So what I am saying is that no two charts can be same, even though it

is reflected by our programs.

This is food for your thought and where do you go from there, with

this knowlege... is in your hands.

Yes even in a large city like Mumbai, no two people can be born in

the EXACT SAME PLACE may be at the same time. All I can say is that

the closer the beds (an anology) are the more accurate you have to

get and the more precision you would need and the finer you would

have to go in the divisional charts to bring out those subtle (of 1

meter as our hypothetical anology) difference providing you have the

right tool to compute those divisional charts (software, knowlege

etc) and the belessings (parents, guru etc) knowledge to comphrehend

those charts (karma, guidance from learned) and the understanding and

a guru to guide you in your devine quest in search of this light.

Most of us on the list have chosen to beleive that there are answers

out there we just do not know it and we aspire to get to those

answers.

 

But to answer your question definitively here it is once again.

 

No two charts can be EXACTLY the same. (they will always be

different at very finer levels of precision of the parameters be it

so time, place etc).

 

 

I hope that answers your question. Do not just go by Divisional

Charts being same ....kinda thinking, Go by the fact that has all

parameters been considered with precision, and begin your quest for

those answers there, I am sure you will start seeing things

differently.

 

Please take this email in the best of spirits, no offense is intended.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ash,

 

Thank you for responding.

 

> You do not have to be condescending to anyone and say that anyone

> is making a fool of themselves or vedic astrology. You too claim

> that u know vedic astrology but u still do not have answers to the

> questions that you have asked.

 

I do not recall calling anybody a "fool". I only said someone who

relies on the chart to calculate everything from caste, class,

parents, profession, educational accomplishments, health, wealth etc

is making a MOCKERY of astrology, IF, at the FIRST SIGN of someone

asking them to explain close births in crowded cities, they resort

to explanations like "but different people have different parents

and grandparents and friends".

 

That, to me, IS a mockery of Vedic astrology, and I stand by what

I said. I do not mean that to be a personal judgement on the person

who said it, though.

 

> Rather than judging anyone is right

> or wrong, spend time in trying to comphrehend the reasons why

> Senior people on this list to the likes of Narasimha, Solai,

> Sarajit etc have asked u to stop this thread and continue it at a

> later time.

 

Now it is YOU who are being condescending! :-) If this topic

bothers you, I ask that you not follow it now, and please join

in at "a later time" (whenever it is suitable for you).

 

> I shall try to answer your question.

 

Okay.

 

> Let me begin by saying that no two people can be born in the same

> place at the same time.

 

Listen, every astrologer worth his salt takes the latitude and

longitude of the CITY of birth. Please do not bring in factors like

on which side of the room someone was born, or in which locality.

If you do, please show me how you will apply it to any single chart.

 

It is no shame to admit that we cannot explain something using the

current levels of accuracy. We do not have to bring in convoluted

factors to "explain away" the question being asked, that is what

I call a mockery of Vedic astrology, though that is only my opinion.

 

I remain,

 

Mahalinga Iyer

 

>

> Let me explain my thinking here.

> If Sachin Tendulkar was born on a particular day at a particular

time

> at a particular place (what I mean is a hospital and the location

of

> hospital bed) depending on the precision of your calculation so no

> other person can be born EXACTLY at the same place. Now assuming

> another person was born on a bed just besides the mother exactly at

> the same time but the LOCATION of the place is still not same. As

> the beds are not located at EXACTLY place, there could have been a

> meters distance between the beds but there definitely is a

distance.

> For argument sake assume the distance is even closer. But there is

a

> distance.

> Now as per the current calculations, limitations of compilers when

> coding programs to the level of precision one can get, we are bound

> by it. Well, if you look at Vedic Math the level of precision that

> is used is in very great detail.

> Yes true even considering your Hypothetical data of charts being

same

> upto D60 or even further but what is the basis of calcualation.

Even

> if we used 15 digits of precision and a very accurate Epimerphis do

u

> mean to say that there is not something greater than 15 digits of

> precision.

> Yes there is but we are bound because of your limitation of

thinking

> and the software etc.

> Things are getting smaller and finer, we started with Pc with 8

bits

> of precision and went on to XT then AT then pentium then

> supercomputer .. etc... all this is happening in the Kali Yuga. We

> are getting more and more finer results.

>

> Coming back to the concept of distance. Assuming there was a meter

> distance between the 2 beds where 2 kids were born at the same

time.

> But one parameter is still off by 1 meter that is the distance and

> that shall always be off.

> An Analagy here.

> Now if u look at that distance of 1 meter from 10 meters the

distance

> shrinks and seems smaller in distance from 1 meter. Now u step

back

> 100 meters and look at the same distance between bed u can see

maybe

> 10 inch gap, now go a kilometer and see the same bed.. u can see it

> as the same. My point being, What has happened to that distance of

1

> meter, just because we are 1 km away does that mean that the

distance

> of 1 meter has actually shrunk. What I am trying to say is the

> limitation of parameters. The subtle difference still remains but

we

> just cannot see it or it is not reflected with that accuracy. Same

> thing then applies to the software that we used to computer.

> The use of the divisional charts is just to bring out such subtle

> differences. Just because a divisional chart using OUR PROGRAMS

and

> in KALI YUGA give the same divisions just because that distance of

1

> meter between the beds is not reflected because of the limitation

> that dont mean that that does not exist.

> Vedic Astrology is very precice, its us who have to aspire to get

> that kind of precision into our calculations and computations.

>

> So what I am saying is that no two charts can be same, even though

it

> is reflected by our programs.

> This is food for your thought and where do you go from there, with

> this knowlege... is in your hands.

> Yes even in a large city like Mumbai, no two people can be born in

> the EXACT SAME PLACE may be at the same time. All I can say is

that

> the closer the beds (an anology) are the more accurate you have to

> get and the more precision you would need and the finer you would

> have to go in the divisional charts to bring out those subtle (of 1

> meter as our hypothetical anology) difference providing you have

the

> right tool to compute those divisional charts (software, knowlege

> etc) and the belessings (parents, guru etc) knowledge to

comphrehend

> those charts (karma, guidance from learned) and the understanding

and

> a guru to guide you in your devine quest in search of this light.

> Most of us on the list have chosen to beleive that there are

answers

> out there we just do not know it and we aspire to get to those

> answers.

>

> But to answer your question definitively here it is once again.

>

> No two charts can be EXACTLY the same. (they will always be

> different at very finer levels of precision of the parameters be it

> so time, place etc).

>

>

> I hope that answers your question. Do not just go by Divisional

> Charts being same ....kinda thinking, Go by the fact that has all

> parameters been considered with precision, and begin your quest for

> those answers there, I am sure you will start seeing things

> differently.

>

> Please take this email in the best of spirits, no offense is

intended.

>

> Cheers !!!

> Ash

[Guest guest]

Dear Mahalingam,

 

> Namaste Ash,

>

> Thank you for responding.

 

MY PLEASURE IM SURE IS ENTIRELY MINE

>

> Now it is YOU who are being condescending! :-) If this topic

> bothers you, I ask that you not follow it now, and please join

> in at "a later time" (whenever it is suitable for you).

 

I DONT RECALL YOU BEING THE LIST MODERATOR ??

 

> > I shall try to answer your question.

>

> Okay.

>

> > Let me begin by saying that no two people can be born in the same

> > place at the same time.

>

> Listen, every astrologer worth his salt takes the latitude and

> longitude of the CITY of birth. Please do not bring in factors like

> on which side of the room someone was born, or in which locality.

> If you do, please show me how you will apply it to any single chart.

>

 

EVERY ASTROLOGER WORTH HIS SALT STRIVES FOR ACCURACY. IF YOUR

HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION IN WHICH YOU TALK ABOUT BIRTH AT "SAME TIME"

AND "SAME PLACE", YOU ARE INDEED TALKING ABOUT GREAT DETAIL OF

ACCURACY, THEN MY FRIEND DONT U THINK THAT WE NEED OUR COMPUTATIONS

TO BE THAT FINE SO AS TO DO JUSTICE TO PIN POINT OUT THE EXACT

LOCATION.

MY FRIEND, I HAVE SEEN PROGRAMS IN WHICH YOU CAN ENTER BIRTH TIME

ONLY THRU MINUTES, AND SOME AS NARASIMHAS WONDERFUL PROGRAM TO ENTER

TIME UPTO SECONDS. FOR MOST CALCULATIONS THIS IS ACCURATE ENOUGH.

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE U, YOURSELF WITNESSED THAT THE LAGNAS OF ONE OF

THE DIVISIONAL CHARTS CHANGING WHEN U ADD OR SUBTRACT A FEW

SECONDS ... THINK ABOUT THAT.

 

I HAVE NOT SAID IN MY POST "WHICH SIDE OF A ROOM IS A PERSON IS BORN"

BUT THE FACT

THAT THE LOCATION AND THE BIRTH PLACE IS NOT THE SAME", YOU

GENERALISE IT AND ROUND IT OFF TO THE CITY AND WHAT I AM SAYING IS

THAT IN THE HYPOTHETICAL CASE SUCH AS YOU HAVE GIVEN, IT GETS EVEN

MORE IMPORTANT TO KNOW AND PIN POINT IN GREATER DETAIL THE *EXACT

LOCATION* OF THE PLACE WHERE THE NATIVES ARE BORN.

 

> It is no shame to admit that we cannot explain something using the

> current levels of accuracy. We do not have to bring in convoluted

> factors to "explain away" the question being asked, that is what

> I call a mockery of Vedic astrology, though that is only my opinion.

>

 

WE CAN PREDICT A LOT OF EVENTS USING CURRENT LEVELS OF ACCURACY AND

YOUR YOURSELF HAVE SAID IN ONE OF THE POSTS THAT YOU HAVE SEEN TOO

MANY THINGS COME TRUE TO BE A BELEIVER IN ASTROLOGY SO YOUR STATEMENT

IS BASELESS AND ACCURACY MY FRIEND IS NOT A CONVOLUTED FACTOR.

 

IN MOST CASES ENTERING THE LATITUDE AND LONGITUDE OF A CITY IS ENOUGH

OR TIME UPTO SECONDS IS ENOUGH FOR GETTING GOOD ACCURACY, BUT IN AN

EXAMPLE SUCH AS YOURS WHERE U ARE ASKING FOR DETAILED ACCURACY, YOU

ALSO WOULD HAVE TO GIVE GREATER ACCURACY TO THE DATA MEANING

LATITUDE, LONGITUDE, AND TIME. NOT JUST 72 DEGREES AND 58 MINUTES

EAST BUT GOING IN FURTHER AND SAYING 72 DEGREES , 58 MINS, 20

SECONDS, 10 MILLISEONDS ETC. AND SIMILARLY FOR LONGITUDE AND FOR TIME

TOO. THAT IS WHAT A GOOD ASTROLOGER WORTH HIS SALT WOULD DO TO PIN

POINT THE EXACT LOCATION AND TIME SO AS TO BRING OUT THE SUBTLE

DIFFERENCES HOWEVER MINOR BE IT SO.

 

ALL THIS IS GOING ON THE THEORY THAT

 

NO 2 OR GREATER NUMBER OF PEOPLE CAN BE BORN AT EXACTLY AT THE SAME

PLACE AT THE SAME TIME.

 

I DONT SEE U TELLING ME THAT U DONT AGREE WITH THE ABOVE THEORY?

 

 

> I remain,

>

> Mahalinga Iyer

 

 

 

Cheers !!!

Ash

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ash,

 

You are focussing on the specifics I used for my example, and

missing the gist of my argument. My point is that the *chart* is

practically the same, not that the birth took place at the same

time and in the same place.

 

As I showed, you can get pretty much the same chart for births

in Mumbai and (say) Pune, you just have to change the time a bit.

You can experiment with any Jyotish software and see for yourself.

 

Neither of us have anything to gain from any more quibbling about

this point, so if we disagree, then let us simply agree to

disagree.

 

I remain,

 

Mahalinga Iyer

[Guest guest]

Hi Mahalinga,

My comments are below.

 

vedic astrology, mahalinga_iyer wrote:

> Namaste Ash,

>

> You are focussing on the specifics I used for my example, and

> missing the gist of my argument. My point is that the *chart* is

> practically the same, not that the birth took place at the same

> time and in the same place.

>

> As I showed, you can get pretty much the same chart for births

> in Mumbai and (say) Pune, you just have to change the time a bit.

> You can experiment with any Jyotish software and see for yourself.

>

WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT PRECISION AND ACCURACY. YOU GENERALISE A

CHART AND ROUND IT OFF TO A CITY AND WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT IN

ORDER TO GET PRECISION WE NEED TO BE EXTREMELY PRECISE OURSELVES.

 

NOW COMING BACK TO THE GIST OF WHAT YOU HAVE SAID, I SHALL ELUCIDATE

ON THAT POINT TOO.

 

MY QUESTIONS TO YOU ARE

ARE YOU SURE THE CHART IS THE SAME ? THINK ABOUT THAT.

ARE YOU CONSIDERING THE TIME OF SUNRISE TOO. (THE EACT TIME OF THE

VISIBILITY OF THE UPPER LIMB OR THE MIDDLE OF THE SUNRISE).

THAT CANNOT BE THE SAME IN MUMBAI AND PUNE.

 

IF THE SUNRISE IS DIFFERENT THEN LOTS OF CALCULATIONS BASED ON THE

SUNRISE CAN CHANGE EG. SHYAMS, HORA LAGNA, GHATI LAGNA, VIGHATI LAGNA

ETC WHICH IN TURN CAN CHANGE THE ENTIRE COMPLEXION OF THE CHART.

 

SO YOUR POINT ON CHANGING THE LATITUDE OR TIME TO GET A CHART CASTED

AT ANOTHER LOCATION WHICH IS SAME AS THAT IN MUMBAI IS NOT PRECISE.

THE CHART IS NOT THE SAME. THERE ARE LOTS OF PARAMETERS IN VEDIC

ASTROLOGY THAT ARE VERY SENSITIVE TO SMALL CHANGES IN TIME, SUNRISE,

ETC WHICH ARE USED TO FINELY TIME EVENTS AND HELP A GOOD ASTROLOGER

IN THEIR PREDICION.

 

IF YOU GET A CHART OF A PERSON IN MUMBAI AND CHANGE THE PARAMETERS TO

GET THE SIMILAR CHART IN SAY SHANGHAI (CHINA), WELL OBVIOUSLY THE

PERSON BORN IN CHINA WILL NOT LOOK LIKE HIS TWIN IN INDIA, THOUGH

FUNDAMENTAL THINGS LIKE SAY FOR EG STRAIGHT HAIR, OR BIG EYES THAT

ARE SHOWN IN A CHART WILL APPLY TO THE PERSON BORN IN CHINA, BUT HE

STILL WOULD LOOK CHINESES, BUT A CHINESE WITH BIG EYES AND STRAIGHT

HAIR AS COMPARED TO HIS CHART TWIN BORN IN MUMBAI WILL HAVE INDIAN

COMPLEXION WITH STRAIGHT HAIR AND BIG EYES, SIMILARY A PERSON BORN IN

MUMBAI WILL BE DIFFERENT FROM A PERSON BORN IN PUNE.

ONE OF THE KEY DIFFERENCES THAT I KNOW IN MY LEARNINGS THIS FAR IS

THE SUNRISE TIME. I AM STILL IN THE PROCESS OF LEARNING THE

INTRACACIES AND THE VARIOUS TOOLS TAUGHT TO US BY THE MAHARISHIS WITH

THE GUIDANCE OF AN ABLE GURU.

 

THERE ARE VARIOUS PARAMETERS THAT ARE AVAILABLE IN VEDIC ASTROLOGY,

AND SOME VERY SENSITIVE PARAMETERS TO BE STUDIED AND ONE OF THEM IS

THE EXACT TIME WHEN SUN RISES IN THAT PARTICULAR LOCATION.

 

HOW MUCH PRECISE YOU WANT TO GET IS IN YOUR HANDS.

 

HOPE THAT THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT PEOPLE BORN IN DIFFERENT

PLACES.

 

 

> Neither of us have anything to gain from any more quibbling about

> this point, so if we disagree, then let us simply agree to

> disagree.

>

 

I AGREE TO DISAGREE ON A POINT THAT THERE IS NOTHING TO BE LEARNED BY

A DEBATE OR AS YOU SAY QUIBBLING.

 

> I remain,

>

> Mahalinga Iyer

 

CHEERS !!!

ASH