How does one validate theories ??

[Guest guest]

I find it extremely interesting to read about the differences

between the Arudha of the second house, and the second house

from Arudha lagna, the ways in which different dasa systems

represent the same event, and about divisional charts and so on.

However, as I read some of these "theories", some questions

continually pop into my mind, and I should specifically address

these to Narasimha, and the other more senior members of this

group.

 

1. What set of data demonstrates to us that one's innate potential

is shown by a house, and the Arudha of that house shows how

the world views the manifestation of that potential? I presume

this is an "independent theory" and not from the classics. If so,

what is the basis for this theory? Can I come up with a theory

such as "graha arudha of Jupiter shows how one is perceived by

one's Guru, while graha arudha of Rahu shows how one is

perceived by foreigners" ?? Would something more than just wordy

explanations not be needed to validate the theories?

 

2. What set of data shows that Vimsottari, Kalachakra and Narayana

dasa show the same event in different ways? I remember reading

the following:

 

Narayana Dasa shows environment or situations in life.

Vimsottari shows how we react to these situations.

KCD shows how one feels when 1&2 is all happening"

 

As far as I know, ANY dasa system is used simply to pinpoint

the timing of "an event". Where are these finer distinctions

between Vimsottari, Kalachakra and Narayana dasas coming from?

Are they based on the classics, or are they independent theories?

If the latter, then where is the proof? Is there atleast

anecdotal evidence of a few charts to back up the theories?

 

Out of curiosity, does anybody have an example of an event that

CAN be pinpointed using one dasa system (say Kalachakra) but

can NOT be pinpointed similarly using another dasa system,

say Vimsottari?

 

3. The usage of different dasa systems - what set of data is this

based on? I have hardly seen any examples of the USE of these

methods, but the theory behind why Ketu or Saturn causes

reverse-counting is amply discussed! The only one example I

saw of usage of multiple dasas in parallel in the archives was

by Narasimha, and it was way way off the mark (no offense).

 

4. The use of divisional charts like D-30, D-40, D-45 and D-60

in PREDICTION - has anybody ever done this successfully?

Does anyone have an example of some trait or event that is

shown in D-30, D-40, D-45 or D-60, but does NOT show up

in any other area? Or where the divisional chart shows a

decisive influence?

 

If someone showed up to you for a reading with a birthtime that

was "reasonably accurate", on what basis does one go about

rectifying the lagna in these charts?

 

Speaking for myself, I cannot fathom how one can use past events

to rectify charts like these - if one has a very bad relationship

with one's father, for example, it could be shown by an affliction

to Sun, chara pitrukaraka, ninth house in rasi, ninth house in D-12

or all the above, or some of the above. If this is the case with a

tangible, real-life situation, what then about karmic issues etc,

which are denoted by D-27, D-30, D-40, D-45 or D-60??

 

Please do not quote examples of theories being tested on one's

own chart, or on one's gurus' chart.

 

When one is looking at one's own chart, a lot of subjective

factors come into play. Raman mentions several times in his

autobiography how he misread his own chart on numerous

occasions because of these subjective factors. For example,

he simply did not see his grandfather's death coming, because

he was naturally so attached to his grandfather (his guru). He

also never saw himself moving out of his ancestral home to

Bangalore city, again because this was not something he wanted

to do (but was forced to by circumstances). Similarly, he felt

his own chart showed a very short lifespan -- this was a fear

that was in his mind, and he "saw" it in his chart as a result

(happily enough, Raman lived a full and productive life!).

 

I would say something very similar about seeing one's gurus'

chart (as in Sanjay Rath, in this case). I would hardly expect

a sishya to say anything negative about a guru's chart. Even

if a negative yoga were to be present, or a positive yoga were

to be partially manifest, I would hardly expect a sishya to

point that out, certainly not in a public forum like this one!!

In my view, such charts of oneself, or very close people, are

not really good for verifying any theories, because one tends

to know the person from "too close", with a subjective view.

 

I am not trying to question anybody's motives here. I have no

doubt about the sincerity of everybody posting to this group,

I am only trying to say that theories about the difference

between the Arudha of the second house, and the second from

Arudha lagna are just that - "theories". Nobody can say for sure

how one is "perceived by the world", or how maya influences one's

thinking; therefore any theories on these areas based on

astrological placements will be very very difficult to verify.

But, unless they are verified, they will remain only theories,

and only words.

 

Note that I am not asking for statistical correlation here.That

may be too much to ask for, but when any new theory is being

presented, or espoused, it would really help to see an example

or two.

 

Vedic astrology, to me is a PREDICTIVE science, not a

psycho-analytical one. When I see Vedic astrologers come

up with theories, without showing how they apply to prediction,

it makes me think Vedic astrology is going in the direction of

Western astrology - not a comfortable thought for me! No offense

meant to Western astrology or Western astrologers!

 

All replies will be appreciated,

 

Mahalinga Iyer

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

A quick reply to the first 2 points.

 

> 1. What set of data demonstrates to us that one's innate potential

> is shown by a house, and the Arudha of that house shows how

> the world views the manifestation of that potential? I presume

> this is an "independent theory" and not from the classics. If so,

> what is the basis for this theory? Can I come up with a theory

 

The use of arudhas is indeed not very clear from Parasara's

teachings. One can only guess from the meaning and the few results

given related to arudhas.

 

However, what is being presented here, in my book and in Pt. Sanjay

Rath's books is not our own speculation, but what has been passed on

for generations in a parampara (line of succession). This parampara

saw many excellent astrologers and it goes back to Sri Achyuta Dasa,

a famous astrologer of Orissa and a close associate of Lord Chaitanya.

 

As for statistical validation, I am also working on it.

 

> such as "graha arudha of Jupiter shows how one is perceived by

> one's Guru, while graha arudha of Rahu shows how one is

> perceived by foreigners" ?? Would something more than just wordy

> explanations not be needed to validate the theories?

 

We can't develop this ocean of knowledge from scratch. Take the

knowledge preserved in traditional families of India as the starting

point, try to understand Parasara, spend a lot of time assimilating

and THEN do statistical validation.

 

> Out of curiosity, does anybody have an example of an event that

> CAN be pinpointed using one dasa system (say Kalachakra) but

> can NOT be pinpointed similarly using another dasa system,

> say Vimsottari?

 

Let me try.

 

January 25, 1968

Time: 11:10:00

Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

Longitude: 78 E 30' 00"

Latitude: 17 N 29' 00"

 

The native experienced a lot of tension related to job during the

last 5 months.

 

Using either 360d or 365d years, the native runs Sun antardasa in

Venus dasa as per Vimsottari. Sun is the 6th lord in 11th in rasi and

lagna lord in 5th in D-10.

 

OTOH, take Narayana dasa of D-10.

 

Narayana Dasa of D-10 chart (a general purpose phalita dasa):

 

Le MD: 1999-01-25 (10:03:47) - 2007-01-25 (11:09:51)

 

Antardasas in this MD:

 

Sg: 1999-01-25 (10:03:47) - 1999-09-28 (13:30:29)

Cp: 1999-09-28 (13:30:29) - 2000-05-25 (22:16:31)

Aq: 2000-05-25 (22:16:31) - 2001-01-24 (22:18:24)

Pi: 2001-01-24 (22:18:24) - 2001-09-28 (01:40:09)

Ar: 2001-09-28 (01:40:09) - 2002-05-26 (10:38:03)

Ta: 2002-05-26 (10:38:03) - 2003-01-25 (10:37:59)

Ge: 2003-01-25 (10:37:59) - 2003-09-28 (14:02:17)

Cn: 2003-09-28 (14:02:17) - 2004-05-25 (22:48:37)

Le: 2004-05-25 (22:48:37) - 2005-01-24 (22:50:16)

Vi: 2005-01-24 (22:50:16) - 2005-09-28 (02:25:28)

Li: 2005-09-28 (02:25:28) - 2006-05-26 (11:06:45)

Sc: 2006-05-26 (11:06:45) - 2007-01-25 (11:09:51)

 

Pisces is the 8th house from lagna and the 12th house from AL. This

is why this antardsasa has been unfavorable. After Sept 28, there

should be a marked imrovement in his career.

 

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha