Satyam and Sivam

[Guest guest]

Birth data: Nov 4, 1970

76E53

30N44

5:30 zones ahead (east) of GMT

Satyam: 4:06 pm

Sivam: 4:08 pm

In discussing the D-6, D-24, and D-27's you make it look crystal clear, plain as

day, that the two charts show these differences. But any cautious observer will

notice that you only argue the half of the story that supports your claim and

completely ignore all of the points that would not support your claim. I came

away from this article feeling like you were very deceptive and biased in

presenting this information.

Let's establish the ground rules of what will be considered, using your own

statements as the standards:

1) Planets in trines or kendras are considered good, while planets in dusthana's

are not (6/8/12). You make this point at the top of the D-6 discussion

2) Exalted planets are considered strong, and debilitated planets are considered

weak. You make this point when you discuss Mars in Capricorn, under D-6, and

debilitations of Sivam under D-27 and D-24.

3) Planets in the Lagna (1st house) are considered when it comes to determining

the strength of the Lagna. You make this point when discussing Satyam's D-6

4) Conjunction with a debilitated planet is considered a weakness, or the

presence of a debilitated planet in a house is considered a weakness. You make

this point when discussing Sivam's D-6, D-27, and D-24.

5) The houses a planet owns influences it effect upon matters. You make this

point when you discuss the 6 and 8 rulers, in Sivam's D-6, as bad influences.

>From this, we can also assume that planets ruling good houses are positive.

6) Aspects from malefics are considered bad. When you consider Sivam's aspect

from Saturn to Mars you establish this point.

7) By virtue of the last point, we can assume that aspects from natural benefics

are good. Perhaps you did not mention this yourself, because this would have

favored Sivam more than Satyam.

8) Aspects from a planet to its own sign are considered positive. You establish

this when you discuss the aspect from Saturn to Mercury in Aquarius in Satyam's

D-24. From this, we can also assume that a planet in aspect to its exaltation

sign would be positive.

9) You consider an aspect to the Lagna as significant. You establish this when

you discuss the aspect from Satyam's D-6 Sun to Lagna, and say that this is a

positive aspect since the Sun is an indicator of longevity.

10) Dispositors are considered. You establish this when you discuss the

dispositor of Satyams' D-24 lagna. So Lagna dispositors are certainly

considered, and from this general principle the 5th house dispositors must also

mean something.

So then these are the ground rules. In your discussion, however, you only made

the points that supported your claims, and left out at least 16 points that i

have listed below, when it did not suit your argument. Now to the specific

contradictions:

D-6

Contradiction 1: You mentioned that Sivam's Lagna lord is conjunct a debilitated

planet, but you did not mention that Satyam's is also.

Contradiction 2: Although Sivam's Lagna lord is in the 8th house, and conjunct a

debilitated planet, Venus (just as Satyam's Lagna lord is conjunct a debilitated

planet), you do not mention that Sivam's Lagna lord in the 8th is conjunct a

natural benefic, which is also a raja yoga karaka for Capricorn Lagna (which,

granted, would also be the case for Satyam's Aquarius lagna).

Contradiction 3: You mention the aspect from Satyam's Sun to his Lagna, and say

that this is positive since the Sun is the indicator of longevity. Yet you do

not mention that the Sun is the 8th lord.

Contradiction 4: You mention that Sivam's kidney problems would be shown by the

presence of the 6 and 8 lords in the 7th, and the 7th lord in the 6th. But you

do not mention that Satyam's 8 lord is in his 7th, or that his 7th lord is in

the 8th, or that his 7th house receives the full aspect of malefic Mars, and

that this aspect is from Mars to its sign of debiliation, Cancer.

Still, Satyam's D-6 Lagna is stronger than Sivam's, as you have argued, although

you're beginning to establish that you only argue points that go in your favor.

D-27

Contradiction 5: Sivam's D-27 Lagna lord is in the 5th house, which according to

your established standards is good. You go on to say that this Moon is

debilitated, implying that this is the big problem, but this seems dishonest

because ...

Contradiction 6: Not only is Sivam's Moon a natural and temporal benefic, as

lord of the 1st, but Sivam's Moon receives a full aspect from Jupiter, and this

forms a raja yoga as Jupiter is the lord of the Sivam's 7th and 10th. This is

the only full aspect his 5th house and Moon receives. But this aspect, and the

raja yoga, are not mentioned.

Contradiction 7: Comparison of 5th house lords. While Satyam's 5th house lord is

Venus in her own sign, Libra, you do not mention that Sivam's 5th house lord is

in a kendra house, and aspected by Jupiter, the 7-10 lord. Granted, Saturn also

aspects Mars, but Mars's dispositor is Mercury in Gemini in the Lagna.

The final analysis of who has the stronger D-27 still favors Satyam, but this is

certainly not as clear-cut as you present it to be, and your subjective bias

still seems very evident to me here. This subjective bias soon becomes full

blown in the case of the D-24's.

D-24

Contradiction 8: You do not adequately discuss the D-24 Lagna of Satyam. You

mention that the "lagna lord occupies a trine and it makes him fortunate." You

do not mention that the Sun is debilitated in the Lagna in Libra, or that the

debilitated Sun in the Lagna receives the 4th house aspect from malefic Mars.

You make a big point of all of Sivam's debilitations, but you do not mention

Satyam's here, including the malefic aspect to it.

Contradiction 9: You say that Satyam's "lagna lord occupies a trine and it makes

him fortunate." You do not mention that the exact same is true of Sivam's chart,

or the fact that on top of this, Sivam's lagna lord is better aspected than

Satyam's.

Contradiction 10: You do not mention the difficult aspect's to Satyam's lagna

lord. Again, you say that "Satyam's D-24, lagna lord occupies a trine and it

makes him fortunate." You do not mention that this Venus is hemmed in by Saturn

and Mars (although Saturn is a raja yoga karaka), and receiving the 7th house

aspect from both Rahu and Ketu, if you consider this aspect from Rahu/Ketu.

Contradiction 11: You do not compare the positive aspects to Satyam's and

Sivam's lagna lords. Satyam's lagna lord receives no positive aspects. Sivam's

lagna lord, however, receives full aspects from Jupiter and Moon, and the

aspect of Jupiter is to its sign of exaltation while the aspect from the Moon

is to her own sign. And these aspects form a raja yoga of 1-5-9 lords in mutual

aspect.

Contradiction 12: While you mention the strength of Satyam's lagna lord

dispositor, you do not mention the strength of Sivam's lagna lord dispositor to

compare the two. While Satyam's lagna lord dispositor is Mercury in Aquarius in

the 5th, aspected by Mars and Saturn, you do not mention that Sivam's lagna

lord dispositor is the Moon, conjunct Jupiter (the 5th house Lord), and

mutually aspected by 1st Lord, Mars, to its sign of exaltation, and a part of a

raja yoga between 1-5-9 lords.

Contradiction 13: While you mention Saturn's aspect to Satyam's 5th house being

to its own sign, you do not mention the aspect from malefic Mars to the same

5th house.

Contradiction 14: You simply say that Sivam's Lagna lord is debilitated, Mars in

Cancer. You left out a lot. While Mars is also aspected by Saturn, it is in the

9th house, aspected by the Moon to her own sign, aspected by Jupiter to his

exaltation sign, and Jupiter is the 5th lord while the Moon is the 9th lord!

Also when Mars is in Cancer and Jupiter is in Capricorn, you cannot simply say

that they are debilitated and leave it at that, because each is aspecting each

other to their own signs of exaltation. And the Moon, the 9th lord, aspects

both. Additionally, this is a powerful raja yoga with the 1st, 5th, and 9th

lords all in mutual aspect, all to either their own sign or their sign of

exaltations. Additionally, as discussed above, the Lagna lord's dispositor in

Sivam's D-24 is the Moon, which is incredibly well placed for the many reasons

listed above.

Contradiction 15: You do not mention the house placements of the 5th house

lords, which you consider very important in D-24. While Satyam's 5th house lord

is in the dusthana 8th (although, granted, a raja yoga karaka and in aspect with

Jupiter--although Jupiter is not as strong, ruling houses 3 and 6), Sivam's 5th

house lord is in the 3rd, and forming a much more powerful raja yoga. Certainly

the 3rd is considered a better house than the 8th, especially when the 3rd house

planet forms a raja yoga with 1-5-9 lords in mutual aspect, all to their own

sign or signs of exaltation. These planets also do not form a raja yoga in

Satyam's chart.

Contradiction 16: Of Sivam's 5th lord, all you say is that he is debilitated,

but you left out all of the above, including the conjunction with Moon, aspect

from Mars to its exaltation sign, and raja yoga of 1-5-9 lords in mutual

aspect. Also, the 5th lord's dispositor, Saturn, is well placed in a kendra and

receiving the full aspect from 5th lord Jupiter.

In the case of the D-24, according to the standards you set in this whole

article, it is very hard to say that Satyam's D-24 is stronger than Sivam's--in

fact the opposite is probably the case. And here again you have clearly only

mentioned the points which favor your argument. And since the D-24 is the most

important varga for educational studies, your overall argument would not seem

to support the reality that: "Satyam was a brilliant student ... Sivam was a

mediocre student (except in mathematics)."

Since, Narasimha, i know that you are someone who is interested in objective,

scientific astrology, i thought these points should be considered. It seemed to

me that you were trying to convince people, especially western astrologers, of

the great abilities of vedic astrology; and anyone who read your article not

knowing how to analyze these conditions to be able to think for themselves,

would probably have been impressed. But these contradictions would certainly

not give a good impression to the scientific or world community, whom you are

trying to protect from the bad influences of unintelligent and insane

astrologers.

I appreciated your help and your concern, Narasimha, and i certainly wish you

all the best. I am simply returning the favor of being as constructively

critical with you as you have been kind enough to be with me. I hope you will

be able to appreciate my honesty on this matter. I think we both care enough

about astrology to sometimes assist our fellow astrologers to present our

science with the greatest integrity and accuracy possible, for the well-being

of all who practice it and benefit from it.

much love and aloha to all,

moses

www.astrologyforthesoul.com