Idol Worship

[Guest guest]

The statue or photo is the inert object. The form carved in a stone

or painted on a paper is also an imaginary form and not even a

direct photo. The statues and photos are only models representing

the concept, which is knowledge. The form of statues and photos is

mainly human form, which represents the concept that the Lord always

comes to this world in human form as said in Gita (Manusheem Tanu

Masritam). Please remember that Gita did not tell that the Lord

would come in any other form. The forms of fish, tortoise etc., were

only temporarily to kill the demons and nobody worshipped such forms

during their time. But Rama, Krishna etc were the human forms

worshipped by several devotees like Hanuman and Gopikas. The Lord

will come in every human generation; otherwise, He becomes partial

to a particular generation. If necessary the Lord can come whenever

there is necessity as said in Gita (Yedaa yedaahi).

 

Once this concept is realized, there is no need of temple and statue

for you. You should go from school to college and then to

university. This does not mean that when you leave the school, the

school should be destroyed. The school must exist for the future

batches. Therefore for you, the statue and the photo are not

necessary and this does not mean that the statues, photos and

temples should be broken. They should be protected and must be

respected as the models of divine knowledge for the future ignorant

devotees. Some devotees cannot accept the human form, which is

before their eyes as said in Veda (Pratyaksha dvishah).

 

For such devotees the statues and photos are necessary for

meditation since they are at the school level. The statues and

photos are useful for the meditation of such limited minds as said

in Sastra (Pratima svalpa buddhinam). Veda says that the Lord does

not exist in the inert objects (Natasya pratima, Nedamtat), but says

that the inert objects can stand as models representing the Lord

(Adityam brahmeti). Therefore seeing and meditation upon the statues

and photos are correct in the case of the ignorant devotees. But the

other rituals like offering food, burning camphor, fume sticks, oil

lamps and breaking coconuts, offering flowers etc. are not mentioned

in Vedas and there are unnecessary and are causing the air pollution

harming the humanity. All these unnecessary rituals should be

avoided.

 

Offering food should also be done to the human form of the Lord only

but not to the inert statues. Ijya or Yajna is cooking and offering

of the food. Gita says that such Ijya should not be done to the

inert objects. In the name of the statues, people are stealing the

food and money. The statue and photo is not taking the food or

Gurudakshina. The people behind the statue are taking those things

and most of them are either cheating or wasting the money with

ignorance. Whatever the Gurudakshina is given should go only to the

priest and not the managing devotees. The business of the merchants

by selling such materials in the temples should be stopped, because

such materials are not even heard in Veda. Of course, the priest

should be a Satguru and preach the divine knowledge to the devotees

and the devotees should give Gurudakshina to such Satguru only.

Thus, the temple should become a center of learning selfless

devotion and divine knowledge and the priest must do only `Jnana

Yajna' in the temple and not the `dravya yajna' as said in the Gita

(Sreyaan dravyamayat).

 

Gita condemned such Ijya before inert objects because such Ijya is

only cheating and business. Such a devotee will be born as inert

object (Bhutejya yanti). This business is connected to removal of

the fruits of sins and getting the fruits of good deeds, which are

not done. All this is false, because the theory of `karma' says

that one has to suffer for all his bad deeds and can never get the

result of any good deed without doing it (Avasyamanubhoktavyam…

kalpakotisatairapi). The spiritual path should be preached in the

temple, which must be `nishkama karma yoga' i.e., sacrifice of work

and sacrifice of fruit (money) of the work to the Lord without

aspiring any fruit in return. Remember, that only the Ijya is

condemned and not the temples or statues, which are the models of

the divine knowledge.

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Surya ji,

Worship is to glorify.Do it before an idol or otherwise.The words of praise

and glory of God.Let's first accept God and then opt or otherwise to

worship.Problem lies in our minds

krishnan

 

surya <dattapr2000 wrote:

The statue or photo is the inert object. The form carved in a stone

or painted on a paper is also an imaginary form and not even a

direct photo. The statues and photos are only models representing

the concept, which is knowledge. The form of statues and photos is

mainly human form, which represents the concept that the Lord always

comes to this world in human form as said in Gita (Manusheem Tanu

Masritam). Please remember that Gita did not tell that the Lord

would come in any other form. The forms of fish, tortoise etc., were

only temporarily to kill the demons and nobody worshipped such forms

during their time. But Rama, Krishna etc were the human forms

worshipped by several devotees like Hanuman and Gopikas. The Lord

will come in every human generation; otherwise, He becomes partial

to a particular generation. If necessary the Lord can come whenever

there is necessity as said in Gita (Yedaa yedaahi).

 

Once this concept is realized, there is no need of temple and statue

for you. You should go from school to college and then to

university. This does not mean that when you leave the school, the

school should be destroyed. The school must exist for the future

batches. Therefore for you, the statue and the photo are not

necessary and this does not mean that the statues, photos and

temples should be broken. They should be protected and must be

respected as the models of divine knowledge for the future ignorant

devotees. Some devotees cannot accept the human form, which is

before their eyes as said in Veda (Pratyaksha dvishah).

 

For such devotees the statues and photos are necessary for

meditation since they are at the school level. The statues and

photos are useful for the meditation of such limited minds as said

in Sastra (Pratima svalpa buddhinam). Veda says that the Lord does

not exist in the inert objects (Natasya pratima, Nedamtat), but says

that the inert objects can stand as models representing the Lord

(Adityam brahmeti). Therefore seeing and meditation upon the statues

and photos are correct in the case of the ignorant devotees. But the

other rituals like offering food, burning camphor, fume sticks, oil

lamps and breaking coconuts, offering flowers etc. are not mentioned

in Vedas and there are unnecessary and are causing the air pollution

harming the humanity. All these unnecessary rituals should be

avoided.

 

Offering food should also be done to the human form of the Lord only

but not to the inert statues. Ijya or Yajna is cooking and offering

of the food. Gita says that such Ijya should not be done to the

inert objects. In the name of the statues, people are stealing the

food and money. The statue and photo is not taking the food or

Gurudakshina. The people behind the statue are taking those things

and most of them are either cheating or wasting the money with

ignorance. Whatever the Gurudakshina is given should go only to the

priest and not the managing devotees. The business of the merchants

by selling such materials in the temples should be stopped, because

such materials are not even heard in Veda. Of course, the priest

should be a Satguru and preach the divine knowledge to the devotees

and the devotees should give Gurudakshina to such Satguru only.

Thus, the temple should become a center of learning selfless

devotion and divine knowledge and the priest must do only `Jnana

Yajna' in the temple and not the `dravya yajna' as said in the Gita

(Sreyaan dravyamayat).

 

Gita condemned such Ijya before inert objects because such Ijya is

only cheating and business. Such a devotee will be born as inert

object (Bhutejya yanti). This business is connected to removal of

the fruits of sins and getting the fruits of good deeds, which are

not done. All this is false, because the theory of `karma' says

that one has to suffer for all his bad deeds and can never get the

result of any good deed without doing it (Avasyamanubhoktavyam…

kalpakotisatairapi). The spiritual path should be preached in the

temple, which must be `nishkama karma yoga' i.e., sacrifice of work

and sacrifice of fruit (money) of the work to the Lord without

aspiring any fruit in return. Remember, that only the Ijya is

condemned and not the temples or statues, which are the models of

the divine knowledge.

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF

ABSOLUTE BLISS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Q) You are advising homogeneity in action, words and mind. But in

this world it is not possible to live with such homogeneity. What is

the solution?

 

A) I advised homogeneity before the Lord in the spiritual effort. I

never told that you should be homogeneous in this world. Lord

Krishna told Dharma Raja to tell a lie in order to kill Dronacharya.

Lord Krishna tells in that context, that one should cheat the

cheaters in the world. Lord Krishna says "If you go into the world

of Maya without Maya, you will be killed as a soldier who goes to

the war without armor on the body". When you are associating with

Maya for the sake of the world for a long time, the Maya enters your

nature. You are showing the same Maya before the Lord. You are

treating the Lord as an outsider and also as a cheater. He never

cheated you. He gave you this human birth even though your file of

Karma recommends the birth of animals. He gave the longevity, health

and wealth and protected you several times in your life. Why should

you cheat Him? You are not cheating your family members. Can't you

equalize the Lord at least with your family members? If Maya affects

you continuously, why are you not showing the Maya in the case of

your family members also? Then the Lord can excuse you because you

are showing Maya everywhere. This means that you are not treating

the Lord equal to your family members. You are offering the food to

Him with your hand and eating. You are putting your jewels on the

statue of the Lord and taking them away by next day. The statue is

in your house. Why don't you keep the jewels on the statue forever?

The wealth is in your house only. Is it proper to take out the

wealth that is donated to the Lord? When you are donating even to a

human being, you are not taking back. You are not considering that

statue equal to even an ordinary human being. You say that the

statue is not inert object and is the living Lord in your eyes. If

it is not statue and is the living Lord, why are you doing such

tricks? While giving jewels to the statue, the statue is the living

Lord according to you. But when you take away the jewels you are

treating it as an inert statue. If the statue is alive, why is it

not eating your food? Why is it not talking with you?

 

You will not accept the human form of the Lord because if you offer

the food He will eat. If you give jewels to Him, He will wear and

will not return to you. On one side you say the statue is not inert.

But on the other hand your practical behavior proves that the statue

is inert. You are fooling the Lord. You are showing false love on

Him. You want to impress Him so that He feels that you have real

love on Him and then get all your desires fulfilled. You show a drop

of real love, which you are showing to your children. You are giving

a pot of cow milk to your children. At least give one spoon of the

cow milk to the Lord. If you can't give even that spoon of cow milk,

keep quite. The Lord is not begging you for the cow milk. If you

cannot please the Lord, keep silent. He will not be furious with

you. Don't show false love and fool Him to get the boons. If you

can't give even a drop of cow milk, keep quite. But don't give a pot

of donkey milk, which is false love, and make the Lord furious.

 

It is not wrong if you cannot please the Lord but it is the greatest

sin if you fool Him by false love and try to get the benefit from

Him. Without the practical sacrifice that proves the real love, all

your traditional activities and dramatic dress like silk cloth,

sacred ash on the forehead and garlands of beads are only the means

of cheating and fooling the Lord. You can fool a human being who is

ignorant or having little knowledge. But the Lord is omniscient.

Knowing this you are trying to fool Him!! Are you not the biggest

fool before Him? Therefore have the shield of Maya when you enter

the world but when you come to the Lord remove the shield of Maya.

Even if you treat the Lord as the statue in your prayer room, stop

all these traditional foolish activity and be real. Since the statue

cannot eat the food, don't offer the food. Since the statue is not

having life, don't put flowers, don't lit the oil lamp when the

light is present, don't burn the fume sticks and camphor, don't

break the coconut etc., You see the beauty of the Lord in the statue

or photo and fix your eyes. Develop attraction and love. Remember

His qualities.

 

If there is darkness, lit the lamp. To remove the darkness, only oil

lamp is not needed. The alternative electric light is there. Avoid

the oil lamp in order to avoid the pollution. If you want good

smell, burn the fume stick. Burning the camphor has no use and

moreover it causes pollution. To satisfy your vision you can

decorate the statue with flowers. What ever you do, you do for your

self-satisfaction, which is the fruit for all your actions. You can

offer the food to the statue, but it is for your satisfaction only

and don't expect any extra fruit from the Lord. You can break the

coconut before the Lord and offer the broken pieces of coconut to

the Lord. But you are eating the coconut. Don't ask the Lord for any

fruit for breaking the coconut. Therefore you can do all these

things before statues and photos with a divine feeling as if you are

offering to the Lord. Your feeling is definitely better than the

feeling of an atheist. But what I say is that by such feelings you

have attained peace, satisfaction and happiness in your mind. Please

do not ask anything from the Lord because your sacrifice is not a

real practical sacrifice. It is only the sacrifice of your words and

feelings. This is not wrong as far as you don't ask for any fruit

for such actions. Once you ask the fruit from the Lord for such

sacrifice of words and feelings, all those rituals become fooling

the Lord. I am not against the rituals but I am against you if you

say that you have practically sacrificed to the Lord through those

rituals and if you ask for some real fruit from the Lord. By all

these things you have obtained peace and happiness in your heart.

Very good! Be satisfied with that fruit. Don't boast that you have

sacrificed something to the Lord and therefore don't expect any

fruit from the Lord. If you say that you have sacrificed to the Lord

by these rituals, which are only sacrifice of words and feelings,

you are the biggest actor and all your rituals are the dramatic

actions.

 

If you want to sacrifice really to the Lord, search for the human

form of the Lord, with the help of Veda and do any little sacrifice,

what ever you can. In such sacrifice if you aspire anything in

return, you will get the fruit, which is just equal to your

sacrifice. If you sacrifice one rupee, He will give you one

chocolate. If you sacrifice two rupees, He will give you two

chocolates. Let the business be justified. Don't expect ten

chocolates for one rupee. But if you are not aspiring any fruit for

your sacrifice, which is the real love similar to the real love

shown to your children, then the Lord will give you infinite real

fruit in a proper place at the appropriate time. Since you are not

aspiring for the fruit, you leave the right place and right time to

the decision of the Lord.

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote:

>

> Dear Sri Surya ji,

> Worship is to glorify.Do it before an idol or otherwise.The

words of praise and glory of God.Let's first accept God and then opt

or otherwise to worship.Problem lies in our minds

> krishnan

[Guest guest]

Namaskaar Sri Surya

 

With due respects to you, I haven't seen or heard such an altered version of

Bhagavad Gita as yours. I do not wish to criticize you but I request you to

study the scriptures properly before implying what you are here. Also,

kindly refer to the pinpointed writings of Sri Krishnan for understanding

the wholeness.

 

Till date, I haven't seen any person pray to an idol. All I have seen is

people pray to God. I am yet to meet a single person who goes in front of a

picture or a stone and says - "Hey Stone!". Recognition of the Lord in one

and everything, is divine. This is what Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa showed

Sri Narendranath.

 

I reserve my further comments on your writings about Srimad Bhagavad Geeta.

 

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

 

 

 

On 4/16/06, surya <dattapr2000 wrote:

>

> The statue or photo is the inert object. The form carved in a stone

> or painted on a paper is also an imaginary form and not even a

> direct photo. The statues and photos are only models representing

> the concept, which is knowledge. The form of statues and photos is

> mainly human form, which represents the concept that the Lord always

> comes to this world in human form as said in Gita (Manusheem Tanu

> Masritam). Please remember that Gita did not tell that the Lord

> would come in any other form. The forms of fish, tortoise etc., were

> only temporarily to kill the demons and nobody worshipped such forms

> during their time. But Rama, Krishna etc were the human forms

> worshipped by several devotees like Hanuman and Gopikas. The Lord

> will come in every human generation; otherwise, He becomes partial

> to a particular generation. If necessary the Lord can come whenever

> there is necessity as said in Gita (Yedaa yedaahi).

>

> Once this concept is realized, there is no need of temple and statue

> for you. You should go from school to college and then to

> university. This does not mean that when you leave the school, the

> school should be destroyed. The school must exist for the future

> batches. Therefore for you, the statue and the photo are not

> necessary and this does not mean that the statues, photos and

> temples should be broken. They should be protected and must be

> respected as the models of divine knowledge for the future ignorant

> devotees. Some devotees cannot accept the human form, which is

> before their eyes as said in Veda (Pratyaksha dvishah).

>

> For such devotees the statues and photos are necessary for

> meditation since they are at the school level. The statues and

> photos are useful for the meditation of such limited minds as said

> in Sastra (Pratima svalpa buddhinam). Veda says that the Lord does

> not exist in the inert objects (Natasya pratima, Nedamtat), but says

> that the inert objects can stand as models representing the Lord

> (Adityam brahmeti). Therefore seeing and meditation upon the statues

> and photos are correct in the case of the ignorant devotees. But the

> other rituals like offering food, burning camphor, fume sticks, oil

> lamps and breaking coconuts, offering flowers etc. are not mentioned

> in Vedas and there are unnecessary and are causing the air pollution

> harming the humanity. All these unnecessary rituals should be

> avoided.

>

> Offering food should also be done to the human form of the Lord only

> but not to the inert statues. Ijya or Yajna is cooking and offering

> of the food. Gita says that such Ijya should not be done to the

> inert objects. In the name of the statues, people are stealing the

> food and money. The statue and photo is not taking the food or

> Gurudakshina. The people behind the statue are taking those things

> and most of them are either cheating or wasting the money with

> ignorance. Whatever the Gurudakshina is given should go only to the

> priest and not the managing devotees. The business of the merchants

> by selling such materials in the temples should be stopped, because

> such materials are not even heard in Veda. Of course, the priest

> should be a Satguru and preach the divine knowledge to the devotees

> and the devotees should give Gurudakshina to such Satguru only.

> Thus, the temple should become a center of learning selfless

> devotion and divine knowledge and the priest must do only `Jnana

> Yajna' in the temple and not the `dravya yajna' as said in the Gita

> (Sreyaan dravyamayat).

>

> Gita condemned such Ijya before inert objects because such Ijya is

> only cheating and business. Such a devotee will be born as inert

> object (Bhutejya yanti). This business is connected to removal of

> the fruits of sins and getting the fruits of good deeds, which are

> not done. All this is false, because the theory of `karma' says

> that one has to suffer for all his bad deeds and can never get the

> result of any good deed without doing it (Avasyamanubhoktavyam…

> kalpakotisatairapi). The spiritual path should be preached in the

> temple, which must be `nishkama karma yoga' i.e., sacrifice of work

> and sacrifice of fruit (money) of the work to the Lord without

> aspiring any fruit in return. Remember, that only the Ijya is

> condemned and not the temples or statues, which are the models of

> the divine knowledge.

>

> at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

> surya

> www.universal-spirituality.org

>

SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE

> TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

>

>

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> on the web.

>

> -

>

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>

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> Service <>.

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Even if you treat the Lord as the statue in your prayer room, stop

all these traditional foolish activity and be real. Since the statue

cannot eat the food, don't offer the food. Since the statue is not

having life, don't put flowers, don't lit the oil lamp when the

light is present, don't burn the fume sticks and camphor, don't

break the coconut etc., You see the beauty of the Lord in the statue

or photo and fix your eyes. Develop attraction and love. Remember

His qualities.

 

If there is darkness, lit the lamp. To remove the darkness, only oil

lamp is not needed. The alternative electric light is there. Avoid

the oil lamp in order to avoid the pollution. If you want good

smell, burn the fume stick. Burning the camphor has no use and

moreover it causes pollution. To satisfy your vision you can

decorate the statue with flowers. What ever you do, you do for your

self-satisfaction, which is the fruit for all your actions. You can

offer the food to the statue, but it is for your satisfaction only

and don't expect any extra fruit from the Lord. You can break the

coconut before the Lord and offer the broken pieces of coconut to

the Lord. But you are eating the coconut. Don't ask the Lord for any

fruit for breaking the coconut. Therefore you can do all these

things before statues and photos with a divine feeling as if you are

offering to the Lord. Your feeling is definitely better than the

feeling of an atheist. But what I say is that by such feelings you

have attained peace, satisfaction and happiness in your mind. Please

do not ask anything from the Lord because your sacrifice is not a

real practical sacrifice. It is only the sacrifice of your words and

feelings. This is not wrong as far as you don't ask for any fruit

for such actions. Once you ask the fruit from the Lord for such

sacrifice of words and feelings, all those rituals become fooling

the Lord.

 

I am not against the rituals but I am against you if you say that

you have practically sacrificed to the Lord through those rituals

and if you ask for some real fruit from the Lord. By all these

things you have obtained peace and happiness in your heart. Very

good! Be satisfied with that fruit. Don't boast that you have

sacrificed something to the Lord and therefore don't expect any

fruit from the Lord. If you say that you have sacrificed to the Lord

by these rituals, which are only sacrifice of words and feelings,

you are the biggest actor and all your rituals are the dramatic

actions.

 

If you want to sacrifice really to the Lord, search for the human

form of the Lord, with the help of Veda and do any little sacrifice,

what ever you can. In such sacrifice if you aspire anything in

return, you will get the fruit, which is just equal to your

sacrifice. If you sacrifice one rupee, He will give you one

chocolate. If you sacrifice two rupees, He will give you two

chocolates. Let the business be justified. Don't expect ten

chocolates for one rupee. But if you are not aspiring any fruit for

your sacrifice, which is the real love similar to the real love

shown to your children, then the Lord will give you infinite real

fruit in a proper place at the appropriate time. Since you are not

aspiring for the fruit, you leave the right place and right time to

the decision of the Lord.

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

"Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote:

> Till date, I haven't seen any person pray to an idol. All I have

seen is people pray to God. I am yet to meet a single person who

goes in front of a picture or a stone and says - "Hey Stone!".

Recognition of the Lord in one and everything, is divine. This is

what Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa showed Sri Narendranath.

>

> I reserve my further comments on your writings about Srimad

Bhagavad Geeta.

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

[Guest guest]

Namaskaar Sri Surya

 

The problem in discussing matters with you is that you put words and

sentences even when noone has spoken or written them. Did I mention anything

about what to offer as sacrifice, etc? If you are keen on giving long

lectures without anyone's asking, it is fine with me. I was just wondering

how come Lord Krishna never spoke a word of Bhagavad Gita to Arjuna, before

he asked for it. After all, Lord Krishna was related to Arjuna and lived

with him for many years prior to the Mahabharata war.

 

It looks like that you may have a different view of when to speak and when

not to.

 

However, coming to your self proclaimed topic - If one has devotion, he/she

is free to express it in any way he/she likes. To call one method foolish to

the other, is foolishness. For you stone is unconscious - for others stone

is not a stone but the Lord itself. One sees the Jadam and the other the

Supreme Being. One sees food is wasted, the other see it consumed by the

expression of the Lord.

 

In other words, do not try to assume superiority of "your" methods. Let Lord

decide that.

 

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

 

 

 

 

 

On 4/17/06, surya <dattapr2000 wrote:

>

> Even if you treat the Lord as the statue in your prayer room, stop

> all these traditional foolish activity and be real. Since the statue

> cannot eat the food, don't offer the food. Since the statue is not

> having life, don't put flowers, don't lit the oil lamp when the

> light is present, don't burn the fume sticks and camphor, don't

> break the coconut etc., You see the beauty of the Lord in the statue

> or photo and fix your eyes. Develop attraction and love. Remember

> His qualities.

>

> If there is darkness, lit the lamp. To remove the darkness, only oil

> lamp is not needed. The alternative electric light is there. Avoid

> the oil lamp in order to avoid the pollution. If you want good

> smell, burn the fume stick. Burning the camphor has no use and

> moreover it causes pollution. To satisfy your vision you can

> decorate the statue with flowers. What ever you do, you do for your

> self-satisfaction, which is the fruit for all your actions. You can

> offer the food to the statue, but it is for your satisfaction only

> and don't expect any extra fruit from the Lord. You can break the

> coconut before the Lord and offer the broken pieces of coconut to

> the Lord. But you are eating the coconut. Don't ask the Lord for any

> fruit for breaking the coconut. Therefore you can do all these

> things before statues and photos with a divine feeling as if you are

> offering to the Lord. Your feeling is definitely better than the

> feeling of an atheist. But what I say is that by such feelings you

> have attained peace, satisfaction and happiness in your mind. Please

> do not ask anything from the Lord because your sacrifice is not a

> real practical sacrifice. It is only the sacrifice of your words and

> feelings. This is not wrong as far as you don't ask for any fruit

> for such actions. Once you ask the fruit from the Lord for such

> sacrifice of words and feelings, all those rituals become fooling

> the Lord.

>

> I am not against the rituals but I am against you if you say that

> you have practically sacrificed to the Lord through those rituals

> and if you ask for some real fruit from the Lord. By all these

> things you have obtained peace and happiness in your heart. Very

> good! Be satisfied with that fruit. Don't boast that you have

> sacrificed something to the Lord and therefore don't expect any

> fruit from the Lord. If you say that you have sacrificed to the Lord

> by these rituals, which are only sacrifice of words and feelings,

> you are the biggest actor and all your rituals are the dramatic

> actions.

>

> If you want to sacrifice really to the Lord, search for the human

> form of the Lord, with the help of Veda and do any little sacrifice,

> what ever you can. In such sacrifice if you aspire anything in

> return, you will get the fruit, which is just equal to your

> sacrifice. If you sacrifice one rupee, He will give you one

> chocolate. If you sacrifice two rupees, He will give you two

> chocolates. Let the business be justified. Don't expect ten

> chocolates for one rupee. But if you are not aspiring any fruit for

> your sacrifice, which is the real love similar to the real love

> shown to your children, then the Lord will give you infinite real

> fruit in a proper place at the appropriate time. Since you are not

> aspiring for the fruit, you leave the right place and right time to

> the decision of the Lord.

>

> at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

> surya

> www.universal-spirituality.org

>

> "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote:

> > Till date, I haven't seen any person pray to an idol. All I have

> seen is people pray to God. I am yet to meet a single person who

> goes in front of a picture or a stone and says - "Hey Stone!".

> Recognition of the Lord in one and everything, is divine. This is

> what Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa showed Sri Narendranath.

> >

> > I reserve my further comments on your writings about Srimad

> Bhagavad Geeta.

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

>

SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE

> TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

>

>

> - Visit your group

"<>"

> on the web.

>

> -

>

<-@g\

roups.com?subject=Un>

>

> - Terms of

> Service <>.

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Friends,

Suryaji is blessed for he has found his own path, very few of us get

so fortunate to be so committed to be able to walk on one path

without deviating from within and without.

However, he is not discussing with any of us, he is simply telling

us of his path and according to him the best path, if not, the only

path.

 

regards

 

rishi

 

, "Bharat Hindu Astrology"

<hinduastrology wrote:

>

> Namaskaar Sri Surya

>

> The problem in discussing matters with you is that you put words and

> sentences even when noone has spoken or written them. Did I mention

anything

> about what to offer as sacrifice, etc? If you are keen on giving

long

> lectures without anyone's asking, it is fine with me. I was just

wondering

> how come Lord Krishna never spoke a word of Bhagavad Gita to

Arjuna, before

> he asked for it. After all, Lord Krishna was related to Arjuna and

lived

> with him for many years prior to the Mahabharata war.

>

> It looks like that you may have a different view of when to speak

and when

> not to.

>

> However, coming to your self proclaimed topic - If one has

devotion, he/she

> is free to express it in any way he/she likes. To call one method

foolish to

> the other, is foolishness. For you stone is unconscious - for

others stone

> is not a stone but the Lord itself. One sees the Jadam and the

other the

> Supreme Being. One sees food is wasted, the other see it consumed

by the

> expression of the Lord.

>

> In other words, do not try to assume superiority of "your" methods.

Let Lord

> decide that.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

>

>

>

>

> On 4/17/06, surya <dattapr2000 wrote:

> >

> > Even if you treat the Lord as the statue in your prayer room,

stop

> > all these traditional foolish activity and be real. Since the

statue

> > cannot eat the food, don't offer the food. Since the statue is not

> > having life, don't put flowers, don't lit the oil lamp when the

> > light is present, don't burn the fume sticks and camphor, don't

> > break the coconut etc., You see the beauty of the Lord in the

statue

> > or photo and fix your eyes. Develop attraction and love. Remember

> > His qualities.

> >

> > If there is darkness, lit the lamp. To remove the darkness, only

oil

> > lamp is not needed. The alternative electric light is there. Avoid

> > the oil lamp in order to avoid the pollution. If you want good

> > smell, burn the fume stick. Burning the camphor has no use and

> > moreover it causes pollution. To satisfy your vision you can

> > decorate the statue with flowers. What ever you do, you do for

your

> > self-satisfaction, which is the fruit for all your actions. You

can

> > offer the food to the statue, but it is for your satisfaction only

> > and don't expect any extra fruit from the Lord. You can break the

> > coconut before the Lord and offer the broken pieces of coconut to

> > the Lord. But you are eating the coconut. Don't ask the Lord for

any

> > fruit for breaking the coconut. Therefore you can do all these

> > things before statues and photos with a divine feeling as if you

are

> > offering to the Lord. Your feeling is definitely better than the

> > feeling of an atheist. But what I say is that by such feelings you

> > have attained peace, satisfaction and happiness in your mind.

Please

> > do not ask anything from the Lord because your sacrifice is not a

> > real practical sacrifice. It is only the sacrifice of your words

and

> > feelings. This is not wrong as far as you don't ask for any fruit

> > for such actions. Once you ask the fruit from the Lord for such

> > sacrifice of words and feelings, all those rituals become fooling

> > the Lord.

> >

> > I am not against the rituals but I am against you if you say that

> > you have practically sacrificed to the Lord through those rituals

> > and if you ask for some real fruit from the Lord. By all these

> > things you have obtained peace and happiness in your heart. Very

> > good! Be satisfied with that fruit. Don't boast that you have

> > sacrificed something to the Lord and therefore don't expect any

> > fruit from the Lord. If you say that you have sacrificed to the

Lord

> > by these rituals, which are only sacrifice of words and feelings,

> > you are the biggest actor and all your rituals are the dramatic

> > actions.

> >

> > If you want to sacrifice really to the Lord, search for the human

> > form of the Lord, with the help of Veda and do any little

sacrifice,

> > what ever you can. In such sacrifice if you aspire anything in

> > return, you will get the fruit, which is just equal to your

> > sacrifice. If you sacrifice one rupee, He will give you one

> > chocolate. If you sacrifice two rupees, He will give you two

> > chocolates. Let the business be justified. Don't expect ten

> > chocolates for one rupee. But if you are not aspiring any fruit

for

> > your sacrifice, which is the real love similar to the real love

> > shown to your children, then the Lord will give you infinite real

> > fruit in a proper place at the appropriate time. Since you are not

> > aspiring for the fruit, you leave the right place and right time

to

> > the decision of the Lord.

> >

> > at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

> > surya

> > www.universal-spirituality.org

> >

> > "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology@> wrote:

> > > Till date, I haven't seen any person pray to an idol. All I have

> > seen is people pray to God. I am yet to meet a single person who

> > goes in front of a picture or a stone and says - "Hey Stone!".

> > Recognition of the Lord in one and everything, is divine. This is

> > what Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa showed Sri Narendranath.

> > >

> > > I reserve my further comments on your writings about Srimad

> > Bhagavad Geeta.

> > > Thanks and Regards

> > > Bharat

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND

RELISH THE

> > TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

> >

> >

> >

> > - Visit your

group "<

>"

> > on the web.

> >

> > -

> > <-

?subject=Un>

> >

> > - Terms of

> > Service <>.

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Q) When we are propagating your divine knowledge some people say "We

don't need any new knowledge. Whatever knowledge we possess is

sufficient for salvation". How such people can be liberated?

 

A) The Lord preached Gita only when Arjuna fell on His feet and

craved for the divine knowledge. The Lord said that trying to give

the divine knowledge to the people who are not interested due to

their ignorance, egoism, jealousy and greed is like throwing a stone

on the pond of mud (Krutstnavit Na Vichalayet). But Sankara went to

the house of Mandana Misra and begged for a debate. Then Manadana

Misra abused Sankara and refused the debate. But Vyasa and Jaimini

who were present there objected to such attitude. Then only Mandana

Misra entered into a debate and the debate continued for twenty-one

days. At the end Mandana Misra realized the truth and became the

disciple of Sankara. Here Mandana Misra was benefitted and not

Sankara. Therefore you must try to uplift all the souls in this

world.

 

Even if the mud falls on you, you must have patience. Sankara did

not return back even if Mandana Misra abused Him in a pungent way.

The father tries to correct his son even if his son scolds him. Such

kind attitude is the divine nature. Krishna tried for kauravas and

Hanuman tried for Ravana even if they were insulted. Of course you

should leave a rigid person, which should be your last resort

because such person is destined to his fate.

 

Q) People are reluctant to follow your preaching, though it is the

truth. Why?

 

A) Such people are incapable of doing the practical sacrifice. But

they want to reach the Lord. Therefore the Lord give that the

flowery path will take you to the Lord and the thorny path will take

you to Hell. They were also preached by the fraud Gurus in such way

only because such preaching was very convenient to them. These

people have also rewarded those false Gurus since their preaching

was very much convenient to them. Such people are controlled by

their love to their families and greediness. Gita says not to touch

such people (Nigrahah Kim Karishyati, Krutsnavit Na Vichalayet). If

you throw a stone on the mud it will jump and fall on your face.

They are travelling in the flowery path with sweet dreams that they

are going to the Lord. Let them be happy in their sweet dreams

because at the end of the path they are going to the Hell. Let them

be happy at least in the path. When you reach the end then only the

truth is realized.

 

There are three types of people in the world. First type of people

will listen and follow the preaching of Lord in their life

practically. The second type of people listen and may or may not

follow (50-50 chance). The third type people will never listen &

follow even if preached to any extent. The propagation of divine

knowledge by Lord in human form is mainly for the first two

categories. But if the truth is not preached to all the categories,

the soul after death goes to Pretaloka for enquiry. There soul may

point out Lord that you have not preched me this divine knowledge

otherwise i would have followed and benefitted. Anyway even by

logic, first divine knowledge should be preached and then only

punishment should be given. So to avoid the blame, Lord comes in

human form and preaches the divine knowledge to all the people.

 

Even in normal games also, first of all the rules of game should be

briefed to players.

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

"Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote:

> In other words, do not try to assume superiority of "your"

methods. Let Lord decide that.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

[Guest guest]

Dear astrologers,

 

This is a jyotish forum. There are members here who

practice different religions and several like me who are pure atheists. It will

be more usefull to fill the inboxes of group members with mails about astrology

and astrology related discussions.

 

After a point such monotonous discussions start going nowhere. We all

have a lot to say and each member can write a lot on topics like idol worship,

our spiritual gurus, and all. But, this is not the right forum to discuss all

these thoughts, day after day.

 

I am not a moderator of this group, but it is my request as a fellow

member to keep the discussions centered around or related to astrological

subjects, as far as possible. Once in a while off-topic mundane discussions do

not disturb the flow of astrological knowledge, but total and prolonged

deviations from the topic can be irritative.

 

Let us focus on astrology, primarily.

 

A wise person needs only a small hint.

 

 

Regards,

 

Ashutosh

 

 

 

-

surya

Monday, 17 April, 2006 23:47

Re: Idol Worship

 

 

Even if you treat the Lord as the statue in your prayer room, stop

all these traditional foolish activity and be real. Since the statue

cannot eat the food, don't offer the food. Since the statue is not

having life, don't put flowers, don't lit the oil lamp when the

light is present, don't burn the fume sticks and camphor, don't

break the coconut etc., You see the beauty of the Lord in the statue

or photo and fix your eyes. Develop attraction and love. Remember

His qualities.

 

If there is darkness, lit the lamp. To remove the darkness, only oil

lamp is not needed. The alternative electric light is there. Avoid

the oil lamp in order to avoid the pollution. If you want good

smell, burn the fume stick. Burning the camphor has no use and

moreover it causes pollution. To satisfy your vision you can

decorate the statue with flowers. What ever you do, you do for your

self-satisfaction, which is the fruit for all your actions. You can

offer the food to the statue, but it is for your satisfaction only

and don't expect any extra fruit from the Lord. You can break the

coconut before the Lord and offer the broken pieces of coconut to

the Lord. But you are eating the coconut. Don't ask the Lord for any

fruit for breaking the coconut. Therefore you can do all these

things before statues and photos with a divine feeling as if you are

offering to the Lord. Your feeling is definitely better than the

feeling of an atheist. But what I say is that by such feelings you

have attained peace, satisfaction and happiness in your mind. Please

do not ask anything from the Lord because your sacrifice is not a

real practical sacrifice. It is only the sacrifice of your words and

feelings. This is not wrong as far as you don't ask for any fruit

for such actions. Once you ask the fruit from the Lord for such

sacrifice of words and feelings, all those rituals become fooling

the Lord.

 

I am not against the rituals but I am against you if you say that

you have practically sacrificed to the Lord through those rituals

and if you ask for some real fruit from the Lord. By all these

things you have obtained peace and happiness in your heart. Very

good! Be satisfied with that fruit. Don't boast that you have

sacrificed something to the Lord and therefore don't expect any

fruit from the Lord. If you say that you have sacrificed to the Lord

by these rituals, which are only sacrifice of words and feelings,

you are the biggest actor and all your rituals are the dramatic

actions.

 

If you want to sacrifice really to the Lord, search for the human

form of the Lord, with the help of Veda and do any little sacrifice,

what ever you can. In such sacrifice if you aspire anything in

return, you will get the fruit, which is just equal to your

sacrifice. If you sacrifice one rupee, He will give you one

chocolate. If you sacrifice two rupees, He will give you two

chocolates. Let the business be justified. Don't expect ten

chocolates for one rupee. But if you are not aspiring any fruit for

your sacrifice, which is the real love similar to the real love

shown to your children, then the Lord will give you infinite real

fruit in a proper place at the appropriate time. Since you are not

aspiring for the fruit, you leave the right place and right time to

the decision of the Lord.

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

"Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote:

> Till date, I haven't seen any person pray to an idol. All I have

seen is people pray to God. I am yet to meet a single person who

goes in front of a picture or a stone and says - "Hey Stone!".

Recognition of the Lord in one and everything, is divine. This is

what Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa showed Sri Narendranath.

>

> I reserve my further comments on your writings about Srimad

Bhagavad Geeta.

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE

OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

a.. Visit your group "" on the web.

 

b..

 

c..