<<gender issues enter the GOD discussion!>>

[Guest guest]

Second question, Surya ji ...

But first let me say that I like your definitive/absolute style!

 

The question: How come you are so sure that the LORD/God is a HE?

 

Why did HE choose to create human beings in his image but did not

only create MEN? That would make sense, right? Was he missing

something and decided to create women, also?

 

Or -- Is GOD genderless and was not CREATED IN OUR IMAGE?

 

In which case we are back to square one!

 

RR

 

 

, "surya" <dattapr2000

wrote:

>

> friend

>

> Whenever Lord comes in human form, initially by His will He will

not

> get revealed to everybody. Hence He first gives chance to common

> people. But unfortunately these common people will not recognise

Him

> nor give value. When rich people started pouring-in only, this

common

> man also starts realising. By this stage, many people start coming

and

> he will loose the acccessibility.

>

> Ofcourse whatever is discussed applies in the case of Satguru only.

>

> The work of God in human form is the propagation of His divine

> gospel. For doing such divine work the family also stands as an

> obstacle because most of your energy is diverted for the family

only.

> Therefore you do not have any energy to work for the sake of Lord.

> Hence Holy Jesus wanted His disciples to leave their families for

the

> sake of God. The propagation work needs both money and work.

> Generally everybody works to maintain his family. In the name of

> maintenance, several luxuries are introduced, which look like

> essential needs and thus there is no end for your work to earn

money

> for the sake of your body and your family. Your blindness

increases

> and you will put more and more efforts to work and earn money for

the

> sake of the family bonds.

>

> In such a case you can never even see the human form of God. At

least

> you should remove your blindness by the divine knowledge if not the

> actual bonds. Only people of very high devotion can cut the actual

> bonds. You are giving money to your family but you are giving

words

> to God by your prayers and you are giving your mind to God through

> meditation. You are giving love to your family through your work

and

> money, and are calling the sacrifice of words and sacrifice of mind

as

> love to God and you are fooling God. Your real love is only for

your

> family and not for God. Holy Jesus tests your real love for God by

> these statements. The Christian Pope and priests and the Hindu

> Acharyas and saints left their families and concentrated completely

on

> the work of God. Only such pious souls can be the representatives

of

> God in this world.

>

> at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

> surya

> www.universal-spirituality.org

>

> "auromirra19" <nalini2818@> wrote:

> > I have noticed even in some ashrams and like places, the most

> > affluent among them is accorded celebrity status, has a SAY. So

> > even in spiritual places wealth does play its part. Mind you I

am

> > cautious, not all of them are so. Some of which I know, I am

> > speaking about.

> > As long as our eyes are on the"ball", our final goal can be

reached.

> > Nalini

>

[Guest guest]

first of all I would like to make it clear this divine knowledge is

preached by His Holiness Shri Datta swami, who is the human

incarnation and hence the credit goes to Him only. I am His servant

participating in His divine mission.

------------------------

If the soul comes under the category of Prakruti, the Lord is

denoted by the word Purusha (Prakritim Purusham—Gita). If you call

the soul as Purusha the Lord is denoted by the word Purushottama

(Yasmat Ksharat—Gita). The Maya is the direct cause of the creation

but Parabrahman being the cause of Maya is the indirect cause of

creation. Thus both the statements are given in Gita. Parabrahman

says that He is maintaining the creation (Mayi Sarvamidam—Gita). It

is also said that the Maya maintains the creation (Dharyate Jagat—

Gita). Parabrahman maintains Maya and the Maya maintains the

creation. The mind is based on the dreamer and the dream is based on

mind. Thus the ultimate substratum is Parabrahman or Lord only.

 

Gita says that the Lord is the Sun among the planets (Jyotisham

Ravihi—Gita). At the same time it says that the Sun cannot shine

before the Lord (Na Tat Bhasayate—Gita) (Natatra Suryah—Veda). The

point here is that the Lord is the Head of this world as the Sun is

the head of the planets. This is a representative model (Pratika).

This does not mean that the Lord is Sun (Nedam Tat—Veda). Gita says

that the Lord maintains the creation but is not in the creation

(Bhuta Bhrut—Gita). This statement is supported by Veda (Neti Neti—

Veda). The Lord says that people who worship inert object will be

born as inert objects and the people who worship the human

incarnation will be born as human beings (Bhutejyah, Yanti Mat

Yajanah—Gita). This does not mean that one should not worship the

statues at the primary level. It means that one should not sit with

the statues only throughout his lifetime. The form of the statue

indicates the human form only. With the help of the finger of a

person you are seeing the flower. The finger is useful in the

beginning but once the flower is seen there is no need of the

finger. The worship of the statues, which are in human form, is only

a training to reduce the repulsion to the human form of the Lord.

 

Krishna stopped the sacrifice for the Deity Indra. He also asked the

wives of the sages to give Him the food that is prepared to be

offered to the fire alter. This shows that He is not for burning the

ghee and food in the fire. He told that He was hungry and ate the

food to be sacrificed. By this He showed the real sacrifice to be

done. The fire of hunger is the Deity Vaishvanara to whom the food

should be sacrificed (Aham Vaiswanaro Bhutva—Gita).

 

Krishna is recognized as Lord in human form through His special

divine knowledge called as Gita. The identity card for the Lord is

this special divine knowledge called as `Prajnanam' (`Prajnanam

Brahma'-Veda) (`Jnaneetvatmaiva, Vedaischasarvaih'-Gita). Miracles

are not identity marks of the Lord since they are like the removable

jewels, which can be donated to others also. Demons got these

supernatural powers from the Lord by rigid penance and so performed

these miracles. The word Prajnanam means the special divine

knowledge, which cannot be explained by anybody other than the Lord.

This Prajnanam is like the yellow thread around the neck of a

married lady, which can never be removed and can never be donated to

others. Thus even this Prajnanam is not the inherent characteristic

of the Lord and it is also an associated jewel. But it is

inseparable and hence can be treated as the inherent characteristic

of the Lord and therefore can be useful to catch the Lord. By this

you have not directly touched the Lord and therefore the Lord

remains unimaginable and is not touched by words, mind, intelligence

and logic (`Yatovachah, Manasasaha, Yobuddheh, Naishatarkena'---

Veda) (`Mamtuvedana'---Gita). Knowledge, love and bliss are the

characteristics of awareness or the life energy associated with

nervous system.

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

"crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote:

>

> Second question, ...

> The question: How come you are so sure that the LORD/God is a HE?

> Why did HE choose to create human beings in his image but did not

> only create MEN? That would make sense, right? Was he missing

> something and decided to create women, also?

> Or -- Is GOD genderless and was not CREATED IN OUR IMAGE?

> In which case we are back to square one!

> RR

[Guest guest]

Ah okay! I thought you were using standard hindu scriptures and

belief/thoughts to describe the truth!

 

Thanks for clarifying that it is not but is your Swamiji's (your guru I

presume?) truth.

 

RR

 

 

, "surya" <dattapr2000

wrote:

>

> first of all I would like to make it clear this divine knowledge is

> preached by His Holiness Shri Datta swami, who is the human

> incarnation and hence the credit goes to Him only. I am His servant

> participating in His divine mission.

[Guest guest]

Q) Can we learn any truth from the present tradition, which we are

following?

 

A) Yes. If you observe carefully the present tradition itself, you

can get the whole concept without referring to any Holy Scripture.

When a householder dies the rituals are performed and a cow is

donated so that the diseased person can cross `Vaitarini' (river of

blood and pus) present before hell. This clearly shows that every

householder is going to hell. The householder is doing Gayatri Japa,

wearing the cross belt, worshipping the inert statues and photos

etc., When a saint dies such rituals are not performed. This clearly

proves that a saint goes to Brahma Loka and not to the Hell. The

saint leaves Gayatri Japa, throws away the cross belts, does not

worship inert statues and photos. A saint always propagates the

divine knowledge in the world.

 

The present tradition also shows that all the householders prostrate

at the feet of the saint. This shows that the stage of the saint is

certainly higher than the stage of the householder. This shows that

everybody should pass from high school to the college. All the

rituals should be protected like the high school for the future

ignorant batches. We never say that since you left the school the

school should be destroyed. We are saying only that you should leave

the school and go to the college i.e., you should not die as a

householder but you should die as a saint. Leaving the house and

wearing the saffron cloth are not necessary for a saint, which are

external only. A policeman sometimes does his duty in mufti without

the uniform. An actor wearing the police uniform cannot be the real

police. Therefore anybody can become a saint by participating in the

propagation of divine knowledge and working for the welfare of the

entire humanity without the saffron cloth and without leaving the

house.

 

A householder is burning camphor, fume sticks, oil and ghee in the

lamps and in Yajnas causing lot of pollution and stopping the rains.

He is harming the humanity by such foolish deeds, which are not

mentioned in Vedas. Some ignorant preachers fooled public by such

deeds and he is not benefited at all. A saint never does these

things because he cannot be fooled since he attained the Jnana.

Therefore confining to the present tradition itself, one can get the

true knowledge without going to the scriptures. The ancient Indian

sages (rishis) who are the real saints set up this tradition. When

you do not understand even the tradition that is before your eyes,

how can you understand the Vedas and Sastras?

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

"crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote:

>

> Ah okay! I thought you were using standard hindu scriptures and

> belief/thoughts to describe the truth!

> Thanks for clarifying that it is not but is your Swamiji's (your

guru I presume?) truth.

> RR

[Guest guest]

Surya,

 

First you should have described what you mean by present tradition!

Present tradition based on religion? Hindu in an indian village or in

an indian metropolis or a hindu in another country? Which flavour of

hindu? Or are you trying to roll all religious types regardless of

their different religions or what?

 

Every human being, regardless of their religious or cultural

following or independence therefrom is essential and important and

must be considered when recommending the perfect solution.

 

Anything less, though at times like honey to some ears -- is

meaningless on others.

 

Ever wonder why so many teachers and gurus and satgurus come and go,

and have come and gone over the last say 200 years? It is not the

disciple but the teachers that were flawed! They *came* too soon or

were inappropriate temporally somehow!

 

You see -- I think MA does not send teachers at the proper time, she

just sends teachers and then hopes they would KNOW well enough when

their time is right! NOT every teacher does!

 

RR

 

 

, "surya" <dattapr2000

wrote:

>

> Q) Can we learn any truth from the present tradition, which we are

> following?

>

> A) Yes. If you observe carefully the present tradition itself, you

> can get the whole concept without referring to any Holy Scripture.

> When a householder dies the rituals are performed and a cow is

> donated so that the diseased person can cross `Vaitarini' (river of

> blood and pus) present before hell. This clearly shows that every

> householder is going to hell. The householder is doing Gayatri

Japa,

> wearing the cross belt, worshipping the inert statues and photos

> etc., When a saint dies such rituals are not performed. This

clearly

> proves that a saint goes to Brahma Loka and not to the Hell. The

> saint leaves Gayatri Japa, throws away the cross belts, does not

> worship inert statues and photos. A saint always propagates the

> divine knowledge in the world.

>

> The present tradition also shows that all the householders

prostrate

> at the feet of the saint. This shows that the stage of the saint is

> certainly higher than the stage of the householder. This shows that

> everybody should pass from high school to the college. All the

> rituals should be protected like the high school for the future

> ignorant batches. We never say that since you left the school the

> school should be destroyed. We are saying only that you should

leave

> the school and go to the college i.e., you should not die as a

> householder but you should die as a saint. Leaving the house and

> wearing the saffron cloth are not necessary for a saint, which are

> external only. A policeman sometimes does his duty in mufti without

> the uniform. An actor wearing the police uniform cannot be the real

> police. Therefore anybody can become a saint by participating in

the

> propagation of divine knowledge and working for the welfare of the

> entire humanity without the saffron cloth and without leaving the

> house.

>

> A householder is burning camphor, fume sticks, oil and ghee in the

> lamps and in Yajnas causing lot of pollution and stopping the

rains.

> He is harming the humanity by such foolish deeds, which are not

> mentioned in Vedas. Some ignorant preachers fooled public by such

> deeds and he is not benefited at all. A saint never does these

> things because he cannot be fooled since he attained the Jnana.

> Therefore confining to the present tradition itself, one can get

the

> true knowledge without going to the scriptures. The ancient Indian

> sages (rishis) who are the real saints set up this tradition. When

> you do not understand even the tradition that is before your eyes,

> how can you understand the Vedas and Sastras?

>

> at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

> surya

> www.universal-spirituality.org

>

> "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> >

> > Ah okay! I thought you were using standard hindu scriptures and

> > belief/thoughts to describe the truth!

> > Thanks for clarifying that it is not but is your Swamiji's (your

> guru I presume?) truth.

> > RR

>

[Guest guest]

A saint is being revered by Foreigners also. Even though they may be

of foreign origin, they give value to the saint wearing saffron. But

the actual nature of saint is to propagate the divine knowledge. The

very renunciation is to participate in the mission of lord only.

Saffron is not important. 'Karma yogena yoginaam ... - Gita'.

 

False/fraud is there in every field. We as part of the citizens of

the world are only nourishing it. Assume a layman or very little

know ledged becomes a guru. How come he is able to sustain in this

world and loot people? People do not know Brahma Jnana and do not

want also. But they identify a guru by his powers which in-turn want

to use for their selfish ends.

 

Even black magic people are openly doing business. People want to

get rid of troubles and always want to enjoy. They do not have faith

in Lord (nor they are bothered of Karma Siddhanta). They are also

sure that they have not worshipped properly and so He will not

shower His grace. But they believe black magic fellow but not Lord

who preached excellent divine knowledge which only clarifies all the

doubts. In the present time, the Brahma jnana has touched all time

low. Even so called Brahmin priests do not know Brahma jnana what to

say of a common man.

 

So if your devotion is pure without any selfishness (selfishness is

like a drop of poison in pot of milk, you are sure of meeting a

Satguru. Otherwise do not expect even in the entire life time also.

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

"crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote:

> First you should have described what you mean by present

tradition! Present tradition based on religion? Hindu in an indian

village or in an indian metropolis or a hindu in another country?

Which flavour of hindu? Or are you trying to roll all religious

types regardless of their different religions or what?

>

> > RR

[Guest guest]

Surya,

 

It is interesting to see that even in these modern enlightened

times, 'foreign' endorsement of saints carries such significance!

 

Brings to mind the old saying I heard in my childhood:

 

'Ghar ka jogi jogda par gaon ka siddh!'

 

Ghar in this case is the milieu the spiritual being dwells in

and 'gaon' is the rest of the world, the more foreign the better, I

suppose!

 

RR

 

 

, "surya" <dattapr2000

wrote:

>

> A saint is being revered by Foreigners also. Even though they may

be

> of foreign origin, they give value to the saint wearing saffron.

But

> the actual nature of saint is to propagate the divine knowledge.

The

> very renunciation is to participate in the mission of lord only.

> Saffron is not important. 'Karma yogena yoginaam ... - Gita'.

>

> False/fraud is there in every field. We as part of the citizens of

> the world are only nourishing it. Assume a layman or very little

> know ledged becomes a guru. How come he is able to sustain in this

> world and loot people? People do not know Brahma Jnana and do not

> want also. But they identify a guru by his powers which in-turn

want

> to use for their selfish ends.

>

> Even black magic people are openly doing business. People want to

> get rid of troubles and always want to enjoy. They do not have

faith

> in Lord (nor they are bothered of Karma Siddhanta). They are also

> sure that they have not worshipped properly and so He will not

> shower His grace. But they believe black magic fellow but not Lord

> who preached excellent divine knowledge which only clarifies all

the

> doubts. In the present time, the Brahma jnana has touched all time

> low. Even so called Brahmin priests do not know Brahma jnana what

to

> say of a common man.

>

> So if your devotion is pure without any selfishness (selfishness is

> like a drop of poison in pot of milk, you are sure of meeting a

> Satguru. Otherwise do not expect even in the entire life time also.

>

> at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

> surya

> www.universal-spirituality.org

>

> "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > First you should have described what you mean by present

> tradition! Present tradition based on religion? Hindu in an indian

> village or in an indian metropolis or a hindu in another country?

> Which flavour of hindu? Or are you trying to roll all religious

> types regardless of their different religions or what?

> >

> > > RR

>

[Guest guest]

dear friend

 

you missed the last word in the sentence i.e., 'also'.

 

Dr. Khurana could not get a teacher post in India. But when he got a

Nobel Prize in foreign country, Indians become proud of him! Indians

appreciated Swami Vivekananda only when foreigners appreciated him.

This is historical fact. This means foreigners grasp the truth very

easily and quickly.

 

Even in the present mission also, Ms. J K Rowling & Bill Gates have

already come forward to support this mission of Swamiji. But This

time, swamiji wants

 

i) indian participation only for 'Rejuvenating Hiduism' and

 

ii) for establishing Universal Spirituality for world peace anybody

in the world can support the mission.

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

"crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote:

> It is interesting to see that even in these modern enlightened

> times, 'foreign' endorsement of saints carries such significance!

> RR

 

> "surya" <dattapr2000@> wrote:

> >

> > A saint is being revered by Foreigners also. Even though they

may be of foreign origin, they give value to the saint wearing

saffron. But the actual nature of saint is to propagate the divine

knowledge.