Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Dear Krishnam It is refreshing and enlightening to read such clear, unambigious thoughts, reflections on the topic `under this theread' than as one has choosen otherwise to piggy back ride and gloat, beat about the bush and the topic is always is hijacked for just for ego shows.(Krishana it is the other mail behind yours I mean) the fact that an elightned soul has choices and G-FORCE or escape velocity don't matter to such people and ones stuck to it are due to their karma's pulls is well laid out. Prashant vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: dear friends, The free world is not assumption and the pulls and pressures in terms of g'force working with velocity and g'pull under force too are operating without any limitations. these circumstances does throw light and reflect on karmas.if these karmas inflict emotion,pain and stress,the human being too pressurised to negative ways of life and indulges in improper and less disciplined life. otherwise free world enables him to aspire for equilibrium and stability and the pulls and pressure do not effect him and leads to matured state where in he utilises the conditions to add to positive life.the thought of escape route (only due to velocicity and g force) does not become a choice to adopt. In that free state he has clarity and knows to control and stabilise to chart his own means and methods and will be free from all attractions.he is not stiffled by conditions. this state of mind and thought enables him to choose life of respect and values and is never threatened. krishnan auromirra19 <nalini2818 wrote: [Om Namo Narayanaya] RRji, More often than not, the poor being is unaware of being shackled, so subtle is the bondage. Nor does it know that it is operating within a restricted ambit, it is happy to think that it is *free*. The thought of escape arises only when and if it realises the surreality of it all, the walls, the rope. Till then it is ignorantly, bissfully happy in its own 'free' world. My few thoughts Regards nalini [On Namah Shivaya Namah Mallikarjunaya] , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Rishi, > > You make a good point, but I would like to stretch the analogy a bit > more, to the side, if I may :-) > It is true that a certain escape velocity would be required to escape > from the grativational pull (and would vary for each planet because > the gravitational force would be different, I believe). One may > extend the metaphor and see the similarity between escape from > gravity and escape from the in-the-box or thinking in the groove > (skilfully trying to avoid the emotion-charged 'T' and "O" words!). > > However, in order to escape G, one does not have to leave the earth > and antigravity practice simulators come to mind where astronauts > practice. One can remain within the BIG KARMA while escaping little > karma at least temporarily! > > I remember Mr. KN Rao once quoted Ramkrishna Parmahamsa who had > stated that human soul is like the goat tied to a pole with a rope > within a locked courtyard. The Walls are the big KARMA boundaries > (dridha, I believe it is called technically) and the rope is the > small karma and so called Free-will. Interesting analogy. > > However, the thing that came to my mind immediately was this: If the > goat was a human child (say 10 or 12 even -- much less than 15 say -- > I am sure he would be able to untie the rope around his neck and > climb the wall and escape. That is the difference between the > allegory of the goat when applied to humans! > > Hence there is more hope for humans through understanding and > remedies to overcome karma and boundaries and generally speaking "G"! > And by remedies I dont mean gemstones or easy escape routes alone! > > Does this make sense? > > RR > > , "rishi_2000in" > <rishi_2000in@> wrote: > > > > Does one reach the escape velocity ? > > Or just a velocity which breaks the sound barrier of thoughts and > > the conscious awareness. > > In such a case one is subjected to the laws and has to once again > > begin abinitio, the earlier inings there , being counted too but we > > are not aware of the scores. > > For each karma done,whether one wants or not, the fruit will be > > there. > > regards > > rishi > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Krishnan ji, > > > > > > Thanks! > > > The last sentence in your post is a keeper. Please allow me to > > > highlight it? > > > > > > <<otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning>> > > > > > > Hence, despite no hope for an escape, the little insect must > > continue > > > to write, here, there, everywhere because it is not the web that > > is > > > killing it but the fact that it decided to give up writing that > > > manual, "How to prevent Karma, at least the next time around!" > > > > > > The sages are gone, the more recent NON-SAGE writers are gone, > > even > > > more recent regular grihastha jyotishis and jyotish writers are > > gone! > > > Ripe fruit, keep falling daily, all the time and no one is > > surprised > > > anymore. > > > > > > But Jyotish miraculously lives on and even improves in some ways. > > The > > > very fact that the Spider is giving the insect a chance and time > > to > > > write the treatise is meaningful! The Spider is not hungry, it is > > > just doing its duty. The insect, on the other hand, is the one on > > > whom God's limelight is focused on!! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Sir, > > > > Risks being misunderstood and mis perceived need no > > > anticipation.it is always fecilitation of web based media and > > needs > > > more preservance. > > > > Karma is omni present in all actions good or > > bad.henceeternal.if > > > spider preys throgh the web and insect becomes victim as that > day > > it > > > was the turn of the insect,i feel these are all events that > happen > > > around to witness.the study of the creation is awesome and to > > account > > > for the happenings we lack really script.people venture to > > > define "maya" and may be iam trying to define what it is knowing > > > fully well is abstract.This interlocked and interconnected > > > dependance can also be preceived as dahrma to follow for the rest > > of > > > ardha,kama and moksha.After all stages in life that come as > result > > of > > > cycle from birth to death do not need also a volunteer.things go > > on > > > and on....we either have to get amused and feel helpless or break > > > boundaries to violate and do something different.if this is what > > Maha > > > purush constitutes how ever rarely they dawn and happen.we need > to > > > embold ourselves to do differently and bow every day to give you > > that > > > element to say you would like to different from > > > > others.otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning > > > > krishnan > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Krishnanji, > > > > > > > > Responding to your posting in the thread but not necessarily > > > > responding to your last message alone or even other messages > but > > > just > > > > addressing a thought-core that I am perceiving through my > biased > > > > human perception! > > > > > > > > People describe and discuss karma and describe divinity or even > > > God. > > > > Or try to anyway. > > > > I am not criticising anyone because regardless of what spirit > or > > > vein > > > > something is written, by me, or anyone for that matter risks > > being > > > > misunderstood and misperceived etc. > > > > > > > > So let me just say it, as is my nature :-) > > > > > > > > Three images loom in front of my mind's eye: > > > > > > > > A small child raised by loving parents trying to define and > > > describe > > > > and write an essay on its Parents. > > > > > > > > The same child now a teenager, doing the same > > > > > > > > The child, now a parent himself, describing his parent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The human being trying to describe God at different stages in > > his > > > or > > > > her life! > > > > > > > > Another more fearsome image also looms in front of my mind's > eye. > > > > > > > > A tiny insect caught in the Spider's web trying to write a > > treatise > > > > on the escape route! > > > > > > > > A little sign near the web reads, "Karma" > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > This thread crux for wiping out past debts always keep > > > surfacing > > > > for the reason"as we are caught in the mesh of past and present" > > > > > If 'paropakaram is parama dharmam'we must find volunteers > to > > do > > > > good selflessly.we know sages, seers and mahapurushas be it > Lord > > > > jesus Christ,Shri Shrdi Saibaba or even Satya Saibaba led the > > way > > > to > > > > establish the fact that wiping out tears from torn faces and > > show > > > > them the way to lead life of righteousness was their concern.In > > the > > > > process what they have gained or lost is beyond our > > comprehension > > > for > > > > the present.one thing is sure to the world that they christened > > > > as "messengers of god"..people found solace in their preachings > > and > > > > followers were blind enough to accept the path suggested by > them > > to > > > > find merit and adopt the life.Also we are not aware of their > > karmic > > > > results in the process.one thing evident that merits for future > > > > guidance is""paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". doing > > good > > > > to others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this is > > the > > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the suffering"if > > this > > > > logic is meant for improving one's own account > > > > > through these means and dedicate for the cause of 'manava > > sevaye > > > > madhava seva'and alleviate the sufferings of the some atleast > > there > > > > is some purpose to fulfil as a mission to do their bit as part > > of > > > > life.ultimately one has to contend'strange are the ways of > > God'to > > > > find swayam sevaks to deliver to the society in larger interest > > and > > > > involve in the struggle for good and bad.It must the same > > as'Dharma > > > > smasthapanaya sambhavami yuge yuge' > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > dear krishnan ji > > > > > > > > > > we discussed this subject in various threads earlier in this > > > group > > > > > but it is always good to discuss this important dimension > > again. > > > > > > > > > > in my understanding, the horoscope is like the statement of > > > karmic > > > > > account as on the date of birth in which all the deeds of his > > > > > previous births have been factored and an "indication" of > > future > > > is > > > > > presented. in share market, the footnote of any IPO > > says "past > > > > > performance is not an indicator of future success". > > > > > > > > > > generally till 15 years of ago, a native has no physical or > > > mental > > > > > capacity to change his karmic account. but afterwards as the > > > > native > > > > > gains knowledge, the karmic account can be changed as he wish > > > to. > > > > > by doing good deeds he can earn more merit or wipe off the > > sins. > > > > > similarly by doing wrong deeds he can earn more sins and wipe > > off > > > > > the merits. to decipher merit and sin, sage vyasa said > > > > > simply "paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". doing > good > > to > > > > > others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this is > > the > > > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the suffering > > and > > > > heal > > > > > them like jesus or shirdi saibaba did. even ramakrishna and > > > > > vivekananda helped crores of people achieve self > realisation. > > > all > > > > > these god realised people are god themselves and there is no > > > > > difference between god and these realised people. > > > > > > > > > > as mark once observed rightly, "your fuure is in your > hands". > > > you > > > > > are not a puppet with the strings in the hands of the nine > > > > planets. > > > > > you have the power to break free and move forward or > surrender > > to > > > > > the planets with inaction and have no growth at all. for a > > > > realised > > > > > person, planets are meaningless. for an ordinary layman > > enmeshed > > > > in > > > > > the maya of dependance on few individuals or few objects, > > planets > > > > > are gods. for a realised person, god is within and he is god. > > > > > > > > > > here comes the role of a guru to help one achieve this > > > realisation. > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and regards > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Shri Arjun ji, > > > > > > is it not that true that if we can get light and get > > > satisfied > > > > > with 'all are equated in getting the light of knowledge" > > > > > > removal of ignorance or darkness is a very very long > > journey > > > > > that involves not a single birth/janma.After all effort > should > > be > > > > to > > > > > keep making value additions in evry janma with consciouness > > and > > > > > (some)realsiation > > > > > > regards > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Members > > > > > > > > > > > > We have always emphasised the fact that classical works r > > the > > > > > main framework of Jyotishya anyday and we need to use its > > built > > > in > > > > > desha, kala, paristihhi rule in it to amend, adopt it for > the > > > > > times, country, culture, political, ecconimic sitiations we > > are > > > > > analysing. > > > > > > > > > > > > THE ORIGINAL QUESTION is not being covered but around it > a > > > lot > > > > > of discussion is going on. > > > > > > > > > > > > GURU in lagna a benefic, WILL HE REMOVE 100 AFLICTIONS Y/N > > > > > > > > > > > > this is true and no use digging into irrelevent logic, > > stasts. > > > > > > > > > > > > as for a given chart he may remove 100 aflictions there > > can > > > be > > > > > many more present. > > > > > > so why dispute the 100 which 100 is the question > > > > > > > > > > > > GARGA is the source of this rule, guru in Lagna removes > > 100 > > > > > aflictions, in 10th many more 100's > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT PLEASE REMEMBER THE 1ST PREAMBLE SLOKA ONE WRITES IN > > A > > > > > JANMA PATRI , very few computer horosope programs print this > > > > > > > > > > > > Janani Janma Soukhyanam > > > > > > Vardhini Kula Sampadaam > > > > > > Padavim purvapunyaanaam > > > > > > Likhyetha Janampatrikahnaam > > > > > > > > > > > > [there can be typos here] > > > > > > > > > > > > meaning the interpretations from a horoscope are compiled > > > form > > > > > the ommissions, commission of the family, which arise from > > its > > > > > status (morals), thus the native and his mothers fate r to > > be > > > > > forecasted. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhagavad Geetha also says one is born into a family of a > > > > > particulkar trait as his previous vasana or sanmskaram thus > > > people > > > > > with good, ethical, dharmic, humble people are born into > such > > > > > families and people with anger, greed, avarice, hatred, > > > contempt, > > > > > hunger, illhealth etc into similar recivers of such karmaic > > > > > balances only > > > > > > so all cant't have same 100 Doshas to be cleansed by Guru > > or > > > > for > > > > > that matter nay benefic. so there is bound to be various > > results > > > > > for different people born in the same Lagan that is 1/12 > > cases. > > > > > depending onther karma balance sheet > > > > > > a horoscope is the opening balance of Karma in this life. > > as > > > > > brough forward from past lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > Plus the other amsas, their lagnas also matter don't they? > > > > > > the other elements of a horoscope, like > > > shadbala,ashtakkavarga > > > > > and above all the time-dasa for such thing to happen a > > > protection > > > > > or insurance that Guru's 100 waiver gives. > > > > > > > > > > > > so a balanced and intelligent interpretation is called > for > > no > > > > > outright acceptence or rejection. this problem comes as we > > are > > > > > trying to fit in a whole picture from a single point. when > it > > is > > > > > only part of the whole picture thw whole picture msut be > > studied. > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope there is some light in this effort.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: dear RR ji > > > > > > > > > > > > before discussing light on astrological perspective, i > > > briefly > > > > > touch > > > > > > what this light is all about. > > > > > > > > > > > > our country "bharat" itself is full of light. bhasi > > diptau > > > > > ratah > > > > > > bharata. compare this to meaningless America which > denote > > or > > > > > > connote nothing except the americans' darkness > (ignorance) > > to > > > > > > continue their country remaining named after the Italian > > > > Amerigo > > > > > > Vespucci who was WRONGLY credited with discovering that > > land. > > > > > > > > > > > > what you said is true that, in layman's ability what is > > there > > > > in > > > > > > mind is seen only by eyes. verily sun and moon are > > > attributed > > > > > to > > > > > > both eyes or loosely as day and night. a realised person > > > > > closing > > > > > > the eyes can see with his mind with his "divya drishti" > > and > > > all > > > > > > sages and saints used to have this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Old Testament, Genesis says that the entire creation > began > > > with > > > > > a > > > > > > light. it also says man is god's own image. when we > > > say "lead > > > > > us > > > > > > to light from darkness" and we want more light or > > knowledge > > > > > > like "tamaso ma yotir gamaya" we mean dispelling > > > our "ignorance > > > > > or > > > > > > darkness" with the "light or knoweldge". a realised > > person > > > > sees > > > > > the > > > > > > light or god within and an ignorant person remains in > dark > > > and > > > > > does > > > > > > not see god. > > > > > > > > > > > > it is written in upanishads that to know that light (god) > > and > > > > > reach > > > > > > that light, one shall approach a Guru (jupiter) who has > > > > realised > > > > > > god. simply put, to remove our darkness or ignorance we > > seek > > > > > light > > > > > > or knowledge for which we approach the guru or jupiter. > > > > > > > > > > > > in this context, the light of jupiter or knowledge helps > > the > > > > > native > > > > > > realise the god. be it the jupiter (guru of devatas) or > > the > > > > > planet > > > > > > jupiter or the human guru, and remove our ignorance of > > > > darkness. > > > > > > > > > > > > may jupiter's light shine on all. > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The proof that light exists in the astropragmatic (used > > to > > > be > > > > > > called > > > > > > > astro-LOGICAL) framework is simple. It is what can > > actually > > > > be > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > because without light one cannot see! Right? What one > > can > > > see > > > > > is > > > > > > > where light is at! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some have extended that to say: What the mind knows, > > only > > > > that > > > > > the > > > > > > > eyes can see! Sarcastic perhaps but to clear my plate, > > it > > > was > > > > > not > > > > > > my > > > > > > > original! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think about that, seriously, based on your personal > > > reality -- > > > > > > > > > > > please --rather than hitting the reply button and ...! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let us begin a new thread and really lay down our > > > > > understanding > > > > > > about > > > > > > > the light that we glibly talk about in the astrological > > > > > framework > > > > > > of > > > > > > > reference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other than the SUN the only source of light that we > know > > > and > > > > > can > > > > > > > defend and moon its biggest reflector. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But let us go beyond that and discuss what this > > > > > > astrological 'light' > > > > > > > really is about in day to day astrology. We all can go > > and > > > > > read > > > > > > > classics, thanks to many giants on whose shoulders we > > have > > > > > been > > > > > > > allowed to stand and see far out! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY > > AND > > > > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > > of > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger with Voice. 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