Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Krishnanji, Responding to your posting in the thread but not necessarily responding to your last message alone or even other messages but just addressing a thought-core that I am perceiving through my biased human perception! People describe and discuss karma and describe divinity or even God. Or try to anyway. I am not criticising anyone because regardless of what spirit or vein something is written, by me, or anyone for that matter risks being misunderstood and misperceived etc. So let me just say it, as is my nature :-) Three images loom in front of my mind's eye: A small child raised by loving parents trying to define and describe and write an essay on its Parents. The same child now a teenager, doing the same The child, now a parent himself, describing his parent The human being trying to describe God at different stages in his or her life! Another more fearsome image also looms in front of my mind's eye. A tiny insect caught in the Spider's web trying to write a treatise on the escape route! A little sign near the web reads, "Karma" RR , vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: > > Dear Sir, > This thread crux for wiping out past debts always keep surfacing for the reason"as we are caught in the mesh of past and present" > If 'paropakaram is parama dharmam'we must find volunteers to do good selflessly.we know sages, seers and mahapurushas be it Lord jesus Christ,Shri Shrdi Saibaba or even Satya Saibaba led the way to establish the fact that wiping out tears from torn faces and show them the way to lead life of righteousness was their concern.In the process what they have gained or lost is beyond our comprehension for the present.one thing is sure to the world that they christened as "messengers of god"..people found solace in their preachings and followers were blind enough to accept the path suggested by them to find merit and adopt the life.Also we are not aware of their karmic results in the process.one thing evident that merits for future guidance is""paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". doing good to others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this is the reason why god realised souls go in search of the suffering"if this logic is meant for improving one's own account > through these means and dedicate for the cause of 'manava sevaye madhava seva'and alleviate the sufferings of the some atleast there is some purpose to fulfil as a mission to do their bit as part of life.ultimately one has to contend'strange are the ways of God'to find swayam sevaks to deliver to the society in larger interest and involve in the struggle for good and bad.It must the same as'Dharma smasthapanaya sambhavami yuge yuge' > krishnan > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 wrote: > dear krishnan ji > > we discussed this subject in various threads earlier in this group > but it is always good to discuss this important dimension again. > > in my understanding, the horoscope is like the statement of karmic > account as on the date of birth in which all the deeds of his > previous births have been factored and an "indication" of future is > presented. in share market, the footnote of any IPO says "past > performance is not an indicator of future success". > > generally till 15 years of ago, a native has no physical or mental > capacity to change his karmic account. but afterwards as the native > gains knowledge, the karmic account can be changed as he wish to. > by doing good deeds he can earn more merit or wipe off the sins. > similarly by doing wrong deeds he can earn more sins and wipe off > the merits. to decipher merit and sin, sage vyasa said > simply "paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". doing good to > others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this is the > reason why god realised souls go in search of the suffering and heal > them like jesus or shirdi saibaba did. even ramakrishna and > vivekananda helped crores of people achieve self realisation. all > these god realised people are god themselves and there is no > difference between god and these realised people. > > as mark once observed rightly, "your fuure is in your hands". you > are not a puppet with the strings in the hands of the nine planets. > you have the power to break free and move forward or surrender to > the planets with inaction and have no growth at all. for a realised > person, planets are meaningless. for an ordinary layman enmeshed in > the maya of dependance on few individuals or few objects, planets > are gods. for a realised person, god is within and he is god. > > here comes the role of a guru to help one achieve this realisation. > > with best wishes and regards > arjun > > , vattem krishnan > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > Dear Shri Arjun ji, > > is it not that true that if we can get light and get satisfied > with 'all are equated in getting the light of knowledge" > > removal of ignorance or darkness is a very very long journey > that involves not a single birth/janma.After all effort should be to > keep making value additions in evry janma with consciouness and > (some)realsiation > > regards > > krishnan > > > > Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > Dear Members > > > > We have always emphasised the fact that classical works r the > main framework of Jyotishya anyday and we need to use its built in > desha, kala, paristihhi rule in it to amend, adopt it for the > times, country, culture, political, ecconimic sitiations we are > analysing. > > > > THE ORIGINAL QUESTION is not being covered but around it a lot > of discussion is going on. > > > > GURU in lagna a benefic, WILL HE REMOVE 100 AFLICTIONS Y/N > > > > this is true and no use digging into irrelevent logic, stasts. > > > > as for a given chart he may remove 100 aflictions there can be > many more present. > > so why dispute the 100 which 100 is the question > > > > GARGA is the source of this rule, guru in Lagna removes 100 > aflictions, in 10th many more 100's > > > > BUT PLEASE REMEMBER THE 1ST PREAMBLE SLOKA ONE WRITES IN A > JANMA PATRI , very few computer horosope programs print this > > > > Janani Janma Soukhyanam > > Vardhini Kula Sampadaam > > Padavim purvapunyaanaam > > Likhyetha Janampatrikahnaam > > > > [there can be typos here] > > > > meaning the interpretations from a horoscope are compiled form > the ommissions, commission of the family, which arise from its > status (morals), thus the native and his mothers fate r to be > forecasted. > > > > Bhagavad Geetha also says one is born into a family of a > particulkar trait as his previous vasana or sanmskaram thus people > with good, ethical, dharmic, humble people are born into such > families and people with anger, greed, avarice, hatred, contempt, > hunger, illhealth etc into similar recivers of such karmaic > balances only > > so all cant't have same 100 Doshas to be cleansed by Guru or for > that matter nay benefic. so there is bound to be various results > for different people born in the same Lagan that is 1/12 cases. > depending onther karma balance sheet > > a horoscope is the opening balance of Karma in this life. as > brough forward from past lives. > > > > Plus the other amsas, their lagnas also matter don't they? > > the other elements of a horoscope, like shadbala,ashtakkavarga > and above all the time-dasa for such thing to happen a protection > or insurance that Guru's 100 waiver gives. > > > > so a balanced and intelligent interpretation is called for no > outright acceptence or rejection. this problem comes as we are > trying to fit in a whole picture from a single point. when it is > only part of the whole picture thw whole picture msut be studied. > > > > I hope there is some light in this effort.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: dear RR ji > > > > before discussing light on astrological perspective, i briefly > touch > > what this light is all about. > > > > our country "bharat" itself is full of light. bhasi diptau > ratah > > bharata. compare this to meaningless America which denote or > > connote nothing except the americans' darkness (ignorance) to > > continue their country remaining named after the Italian Amerigo > > Vespucci who was WRONGLY credited with discovering that land. > > > > what you said is true that, in layman's ability what is there in > > mind is seen only by eyes. verily sun and moon are attributed > to > > both eyes or loosely as day and night. a realised person > closing > > the eyes can see with his mind with his "divya drishti" and all > > sages and saints used to have this. > > > > Old Testament, Genesis says that the entire creation began with > a > > light. it also says man is god's own image. when we say "lead > us > > to light from darkness" and we want more light or knowledge > > like "tamaso ma yotir gamaya" we mean dispelling our "ignorance > or > > darkness" with the "light or knoweldge". a realised person sees > the > > light or god within and an ignorant person remains in dark and > does > > not see god. > > > > it is written in upanishads that to know that light (god) and > reach > > that light, one shall approach a Guru (jupiter) who has realised > > god. simply put, to remove our darkness or ignorance we seek > light > > or knowledge for which we approach the guru or jupiter. > > > > in this context, the light of jupiter or knowledge helps the > native > > realise the god. be it the jupiter (guru of devatas) or the > planet > > jupiter or the human guru, and remove our ignorance of darkness. > > > > may jupiter's light shine on all. > > > > with best wishes > > arjun > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > The proof that light exists in the astropragmatic (used to be > > called > > > astro-LOGICAL) framework is simple. It is what can actually be > > seen > > > because without light one cannot see! Right? What one can see > is > > > where light is at! > > > > > > Some have extended that to say: What the mind knows, only that > the > > > eyes can see! Sarcastic perhaps but to clear my plate, it was > not > > my > > > original! > > > > > > Think about that, seriously, based on your personal reality -- > > > please --rather than hitting the reply button and ...! > > > > > > Let us begin a new thread and really lay down our > understanding > > about > > > the light that we glibly talk about in the astrological > framework > > of > > > reference. > > > > > > Other than the SUN the only source of light that we know and > can > > > defend and moon its biggest reflector. > > > > > > But let us go beyond that and discuss what this > > astrological 'light' > > > really is about in day to day astrology. We all can go and > read > > > classics, thanks to many giants on whose shoulders we have > been > > > allowed to stand and see far out! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously > low rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone > call rates. > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Sir, Risks being misunderstood and mis perceived need no anticipation.it is always fecilitation of web based media and needs more preservance. Karma is omni present in all actions good or bad.henceeternal.if spider preys throgh the web and insect becomes victim as that day it was the turn of the insect,i feel these are all events that happen around to witness.the study of the creation is awesome and to account for the happenings we lack really script.people venture to define "maya" and may be iam trying to define what it is knowing fully well is abstract.This interlocked and interconnected dependance can also be preceived as dahrma to follow for the rest of ardha,kama and moksha.After all stages in life that come as result of cycle from birth to death do not need also a volunteer.things go on and on....we either have to get amused and feel helpless or break boundaries to violate and do something different.if this is what Maha purush constitutes how ever rarely they dawn and happen.we need to embold ourselves to do differently and bow every day to give you that element to say you would like to different from others.otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning krishnan krishnan crystal pages <jyotish_vani wrote: Krishnanji, Responding to your posting in the thread but not necessarily responding to your last message alone or even other messages but just addressing a thought-core that I am perceiving through my biased human perception! People describe and discuss karma and describe divinity or even God. Or try to anyway. I am not criticising anyone because regardless of what spirit or vein something is written, by me, or anyone for that matter risks being misunderstood and misperceived etc. So let me just say it, as is my nature :-) Three images loom in front of my mind's eye: A small child raised by loving parents trying to define and describe and write an essay on its Parents. The same child now a teenager, doing the same The child, now a parent himself, describing his parent The human being trying to describe God at different stages in his or her life! Another more fearsome image also looms in front of my mind's eye. A tiny insect caught in the Spider's web trying to write a treatise on the escape route! A little sign near the web reads, "Karma" RR , vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: > > Dear Sir, > This thread crux for wiping out past debts always keep surfacing for the reason"as we are caught in the mesh of past and present" > If 'paropakaram is parama dharmam'we must find volunteers to do good selflessly.we know sages, seers and mahapurushas be it Lord jesus Christ,Shri Shrdi Saibaba or even Satya Saibaba led the way to establish the fact that wiping out tears from torn faces and show them the way to lead life of righteousness was their concern.In the process what they have gained or lost is beyond our comprehension for the present.one thing is sure to the world that they christened as "messengers of god"..people found solace in their preachings and followers were blind enough to accept the path suggested by them to find merit and adopt the life.Also we are not aware of their karmic results in the process.one thing evident that merits for future guidance is""paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". doing good to others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this is the reason why god realised souls go in search of the suffering"if this logic is meant for improving one's own account > through these means and dedicate for the cause of 'manava sevaye madhava seva'and alleviate the sufferings of the some atleast there is some purpose to fulfil as a mission to do their bit as part of life.ultimately one has to contend'strange are the ways of God'to find swayam sevaks to deliver to the society in larger interest and involve in the struggle for good and bad.It must the same as'Dharma smasthapanaya sambhavami yuge yuge' > krishnan > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 wrote: > dear krishnan ji > > we discussed this subject in various threads earlier in this group > but it is always good to discuss this important dimension again. > > in my understanding, the horoscope is like the statement of karmic > account as on the date of birth in which all the deeds of his > previous births have been factored and an "indication" of future is > presented. in share market, the footnote of any IPO says "past > performance is not an indicator of future success". > > generally till 15 years of ago, a native has no physical or mental > capacity to change his karmic account. but afterwards as the native > gains knowledge, the karmic account can be changed as he wish to. > by doing good deeds he can earn more merit or wipe off the sins. > similarly by doing wrong deeds he can earn more sins and wipe off > the merits. to decipher merit and sin, sage vyasa said > simply "paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". doing good to > others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this is the > reason why god realised souls go in search of the suffering and heal > them like jesus or shirdi saibaba did. even ramakrishna and > vivekananda helped crores of people achieve self realisation. all > these god realised people are god themselves and there is no > difference between god and these realised people. > > as mark once observed rightly, "your fuure is in your hands". you > are not a puppet with the strings in the hands of the nine planets. > you have the power to break free and move forward or surrender to > the planets with inaction and have no growth at all. for a realised > person, planets are meaningless. for an ordinary layman enmeshed in > the maya of dependance on few individuals or few objects, planets > are gods. for a realised person, god is within and he is god. > > here comes the role of a guru to help one achieve this realisation. > > with best wishes and regards > arjun > > , vattem krishnan > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > Dear Shri Arjun ji, > > is it not that true that if we can get light and get satisfied > with 'all are equated in getting the light of knowledge" > > removal of ignorance or darkness is a very very long journey > that involves not a single birth/janma.After all effort should be to > keep making value additions in evry janma with consciouness and > (some)realsiation > > regards > > krishnan > > > > Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > Dear Members > > > > We have always emphasised the fact that classical works r the > main framework of Jyotishya anyday and we need to use its built in > desha, kala, paristihhi rule in it to amend, adopt it for the > times, country, culture, political, ecconimic sitiations we are > analysing. > > > > THE ORIGINAL QUESTION is not being covered but around it a lot > of discussion is going on. > > > > GURU in lagna a benefic, WILL HE REMOVE 100 AFLICTIONS Y/N > > > > this is true and no use digging into irrelevent logic, stasts. > > > > as for a given chart he may remove 100 aflictions there can be > many more present. > > so why dispute the 100 which 100 is the question > > > > GARGA is the source of this rule, guru in Lagna removes 100 > aflictions, in 10th many more 100's > > > > BUT PLEASE REMEMBER THE 1ST PREAMBLE SLOKA ONE WRITES IN A > JANMA PATRI , very few computer horosope programs print this > > > > Janani Janma Soukhyanam > > Vardhini Kula Sampadaam > > Padavim purvapunyaanaam > > Likhyetha Janampatrikahnaam > > > > [there can be typos here] > > > > meaning the interpretations from a horoscope are compiled form > the ommissions, commission of the family, which arise from its > status (morals), thus the native and his mothers fate r to be > forecasted. > > > > Bhagavad Geetha also says one is born into a family of a > particulkar trait as his previous vasana or sanmskaram thus people > with good, ethical, dharmic, humble people are born into such > families and people with anger, greed, avarice, hatred, contempt, > hunger, illhealth etc into similar recivers of such karmaic > balances only > > so all cant't have same 100 Doshas to be cleansed by Guru or for > that matter nay benefic. so there is bound to be various results > for different people born in the same Lagan that is 1/12 cases. > depending onther karma balance sheet > > a horoscope is the opening balance of Karma in this life. as > brough forward from past lives. > > > > Plus the other amsas, their lagnas also matter don't they? > > the other elements of a horoscope, like shadbala,ashtakkavarga > and above all the time-dasa for such thing to happen a protection > or insurance that Guru's 100 waiver gives. > > > > so a balanced and intelligent interpretation is called for no > outright acceptence or rejection. this problem comes as we are > trying to fit in a whole picture from a single point. when it is > only part of the whole picture thw whole picture msut be studied. > > > > I hope there is some light in this effort.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: dear RR ji > > > > before discussing light on astrological perspective, i briefly > touch > > what this light is all about. > > > > our country "bharat" itself is full of light. bhasi diptau > ratah > > bharata. compare this to meaningless America which denote or > > connote nothing except the americans' darkness (ignorance) to > > continue their country remaining named after the Italian Amerigo > > Vespucci who was WRONGLY credited with discovering that land. > > > > what you said is true that, in layman's ability what is there in > > mind is seen only by eyes. verily sun and moon are attributed > to > > both eyes or loosely as day and night. a realised person > closing > > the eyes can see with his mind with his "divya drishti" and all > > sages and saints used to have this. > > > > Old Testament, Genesis says that the entire creation began with > a > > light. it also says man is god's own image. when we say "lead > us > > to light from darkness" and we want more light or knowledge > > like "tamaso ma yotir gamaya" we mean dispelling our "ignorance > or > > darkness" with the "light or knoweldge". a realised person sees > the > > light or god within and an ignorant person remains in dark and > does > > not see god. > > > > it is written in upanishads that to know that light (god) and > reach > > that light, one shall approach a Guru (jupiter) who has realised > > god. simply put, to remove our darkness or ignorance we seek > light > > or knowledge for which we approach the guru or jupiter. > > > > in this context, the light of jupiter or knowledge helps the > native > > realise the god. be it the jupiter (guru of devatas) or the > planet > > jupiter or the human guru, and remove our ignorance of darkness. > > > > may jupiter's light shine on all. > > > > with best wishes > > arjun > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > The proof that light exists in the astropragmatic (used to be > > called > > > astro-LOGICAL) framework is simple. It is what can actually be > > seen > > > because without light one cannot see! Right? What one can see > is > > > where light is at! > > > > > > Some have extended that to say: What the mind knows, only that > the > > > eyes can see! Sarcastic perhaps but to clear my plate, it was > not > > my > > > original! > > > > > > Think about that, seriously, based on your personal reality -- > > > please --rather than hitting the reply button and ...! > > > > > > Let us begin a new thread and really lay down our > understanding > > about > > > the light that we glibly talk about in the astrological > framework > > of > > > reference. > > > > > > Other than the SUN the only source of light that we know and > can > > > defend and moon its biggest reflector. > > > > > > But let us go beyond that and discuss what this > > astrological 'light' > > > really is about in day to day astrology. We all can go and > read > > > classics, thanks to many giants on whose shoulders we have > been > > > allowed to stand and see far out! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously > low rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone > call rates. > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software Visit your group "" on the web. Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Krishnan ji, Thanks! The last sentence in your post is a keeper. Please allow me to highlight it? <<otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning>> Hence, despite no hope for an escape, the little insect must continue to write, here, there, everywhere because it is not the web that is killing it but the fact that it decided to give up writing that manual, "How to prevent Karma, at least the next time around!" The sages are gone, the more recent NON-SAGE writers are gone, even more recent regular grihastha jyotishis and jyotish writers are gone! Ripe fruit, keep falling daily, all the time and no one is surprised anymore. But Jyotish miraculously lives on and even improves in some ways. The very fact that the Spider is giving the insect a chance and time to write the treatise is meaningful! The Spider is not hungry, it is just doing its duty. The insect, on the other hand, is the one on whom God's limelight is focused on!! RR , vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: > > Sir, > Risks being misunderstood and mis perceived need no anticipation.it is always fecilitation of web based media and needs more preservance. > Karma is omni present in all actions good or bad.henceeternal.if spider preys throgh the web and insect becomes victim as that day it was the turn of the insect,i feel these are all events that happen around to witness.the study of the creation is awesome and to account for the happenings we lack really script.people venture to define "maya" and may be iam trying to define what it is knowing fully well is abstract.This interlocked and interconnected dependance can also be preceived as dahrma to follow for the rest of ardha,kama and moksha.After all stages in life that come as result of cycle from birth to death do not need also a volunteer.things go on and on....we either have to get amused and feel helpless or break boundaries to violate and do something different.if this is what Maha purush constitutes how ever rarely they dawn and happen.we need to embold ourselves to do differently and bow every day to give you that element to say you would like to different from > others.otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning > krishnan > krishnan > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani wrote: > Krishnanji, > > Responding to your posting in the thread but not necessarily > responding to your last message alone or even other messages but just > addressing a thought-core that I am perceiving through my biased > human perception! > > People describe and discuss karma and describe divinity or even God. > Or try to anyway. > I am not criticising anyone because regardless of what spirit or vein > something is written, by me, or anyone for that matter risks being > misunderstood and misperceived etc. > > So let me just say it, as is my nature :-) > > Three images loom in front of my mind's eye: > > A small child raised by loving parents trying to define and describe > and write an essay on its Parents. > > The same child now a teenager, doing the same > > The child, now a parent himself, describing his parent > > > > The human being trying to describe God at different stages in his or > her life! > > Another more fearsome image also looms in front of my mind's eye. > > A tiny insect caught in the Spider's web trying to write a treatise > on the escape route! > > A little sign near the web reads, "Karma" > > RR > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sir, > > This thread crux for wiping out past debts always keep surfacing > for the reason"as we are caught in the mesh of past and present" > > If 'paropakaram is parama dharmam'we must find volunteers to do > good selflessly.we know sages, seers and mahapurushas be it Lord > jesus Christ,Shri Shrdi Saibaba or even Satya Saibaba led the way to > establish the fact that wiping out tears from torn faces and show > them the way to lead life of righteousness was their concern.In the > process what they have gained or lost is beyond our comprehension for > the present.one thing is sure to the world that they christened > as "messengers of god"..people found solace in their preachings and > followers were blind enough to accept the path suggested by them to > find merit and adopt the life.Also we are not aware of their karmic > results in the process.one thing evident that merits for future > guidance is""paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". doing good > to others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this is the > reason why god realised souls go in search of the suffering"if this > logic is meant for improving one's own account > > through these means and dedicate for the cause of 'manava sevaye > madhava seva'and alleviate the sufferings of the some atleast there > is some purpose to fulfil as a mission to do their bit as part of > life.ultimately one has to contend'strange are the ways of God'to > find swayam sevaks to deliver to the society in larger interest and > involve in the struggle for good and bad.It must the same as'Dharma > smasthapanaya sambhavami yuge yuge' > > krishnan > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > dear krishnan ji > > > > we discussed this subject in various threads earlier in this group > > but it is always good to discuss this important dimension again. > > > > in my understanding, the horoscope is like the statement of karmic > > account as on the date of birth in which all the deeds of his > > previous births have been factored and an "indication" of future is > > presented. in share market, the footnote of any IPO says "past > > performance is not an indicator of future success". > > > > generally till 15 years of ago, a native has no physical or mental > > capacity to change his karmic account. but afterwards as the > native > > gains knowledge, the karmic account can be changed as he wish to. > > by doing good deeds he can earn more merit or wipe off the sins. > > similarly by doing wrong deeds he can earn more sins and wipe off > > the merits. to decipher merit and sin, sage vyasa said > > simply "paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". doing good to > > others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this is the > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the suffering and > heal > > them like jesus or shirdi saibaba did. even ramakrishna and > > vivekananda helped crores of people achieve self realisation. all > > these god realised people are god themselves and there is no > > difference between god and these realised people. > > > > as mark once observed rightly, "your fuure is in your hands". you > > are not a puppet with the strings in the hands of the nine > planets. > > you have the power to break free and move forward or surrender to > > the planets with inaction and have no growth at all. for a > realised > > person, planets are meaningless. for an ordinary layman enmeshed > in > > the maya of dependance on few individuals or few objects, planets > > are gods. for a realised person, god is within and he is god. > > > > here comes the role of a guru to help one achieve this realisation. > > > > with best wishes and regards > > arjun > > > > , vattem krishnan > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Shri Arjun ji, > > > is it not that true that if we can get light and get satisfied > > with 'all are equated in getting the light of knowledge" > > > removal of ignorance or darkness is a very very long journey > > that involves not a single birth/janma.After all effort should be > to > > keep making value additions in evry janma with consciouness and > > (some)realsiation > > > regards > > > krishnan > > > > > > Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > Dear Members > > > > > > We have always emphasised the fact that classical works r the > > main framework of Jyotishya anyday and we need to use its built in > > desha, kala, paristihhi rule in it to amend, adopt it for the > > times, country, culture, political, ecconimic sitiations we are > > analysing. > > > > > > THE ORIGINAL QUESTION is not being covered but around it a lot > > of discussion is going on. > > > > > > GURU in lagna a benefic, WILL HE REMOVE 100 AFLICTIONS Y/N > > > > > > this is true and no use digging into irrelevent logic, stasts. > > > > > > as for a given chart he may remove 100 aflictions there can be > > many more present. > > > so why dispute the 100 which 100 is the question > > > > > > GARGA is the source of this rule, guru in Lagna removes 100 > > aflictions, in 10th many more 100's > > > > > > BUT PLEASE REMEMBER THE 1ST PREAMBLE SLOKA ONE WRITES IN A > > JANMA PATRI , very few computer horosope programs print this > > > > > > Janani Janma Soukhyanam > > > Vardhini Kula Sampadaam > > > Padavim purvapunyaanaam > > > Likhyetha Janampatrikahnaam > > > > > > [there can be typos here] > > > > > > meaning the interpretations from a horoscope are compiled form > > the ommissions, commission of the family, which arise from its > > status (morals), thus the native and his mothers fate r to be > > forecasted. > > > > > > Bhagavad Geetha also says one is born into a family of a > > particulkar trait as his previous vasana or sanmskaram thus people > > with good, ethical, dharmic, humble people are born into such > > families and people with anger, greed, avarice, hatred, contempt, > > hunger, illhealth etc into similar recivers of such karmaic > > balances only > > > so all cant't have same 100 Doshas to be cleansed by Guru or > for > > that matter nay benefic. so there is bound to be various results > > for different people born in the same Lagan that is 1/12 cases. > > depending onther karma balance sheet > > > a horoscope is the opening balance of Karma in this life. as > > brough forward from past lives. > > > > > > Plus the other amsas, their lagnas also matter don't they? > > > the other elements of a horoscope, like shadbala,ashtakkavarga > > and above all the time-dasa for such thing to happen a protection > > or insurance that Guru's 100 waiver gives. > > > > > > so a balanced and intelligent interpretation is called for no > > outright acceptence or rejection. this problem comes as we are > > trying to fit in a whole picture from a single point. when it is > > only part of the whole picture thw whole picture msut be studied. > > > > > > I hope there is some light in this effort.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: dear RR ji > > > > > > before discussing light on astrological perspective, i briefly > > touch > > > what this light is all about. > > > > > > our country "bharat" itself is full of light. bhasi diptau > > ratah > > > bharata. compare this to meaningless America which denote or > > > connote nothing except the americans' darkness (ignorance) to > > > continue their country remaining named after the Italian > Amerigo > > > Vespucci who was WRONGLY credited with discovering that land. > > > > > > what you said is true that, in layman's ability what is there > in > > > mind is seen only by eyes. verily sun and moon are attributed > > to > > > both eyes or loosely as day and night. a realised person > > closing > > > the eyes can see with his mind with his "divya drishti" and all > > > sages and saints used to have this. > > > > > > Old Testament, Genesis says that the entire creation began with > > a > > > light. it also says man is god's own image. when we say "lead > > us > > > to light from darkness" and we want more light or knowledge > > > like "tamaso ma yotir gamaya" we mean dispelling our "ignorance > > or > > > darkness" with the "light or knoweldge". a realised person > sees > > the > > > light or god within and an ignorant person remains in dark and > > does > > > not see god. > > > > > > it is written in upanishads that to know that light (god) and > > reach > > > that light, one shall approach a Guru (jupiter) who has > realised > > > god. simply put, to remove our darkness or ignorance we seek > > light > > > or knowledge for which we approach the guru or jupiter. > > > > > > in this context, the light of jupiter or knowledge helps the > > native > > > realise the god. be it the jupiter (guru of devatas) or the > > planet > > > jupiter or the human guru, and remove our ignorance of > darkness. > > > > > > may jupiter's light shine on all. > > > > > > with best wishes > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The proof that light exists in the astropragmatic (used to be > > > called > > > > astro-LOGICAL) framework is simple. It is what can actually > be > > > seen > > > > because without light one cannot see! Right? What one can see > > is > > > > where light is at! > > > > > > > > Some have extended that to say: What the mind knows, only > that > > the > > > > eyes can see! Sarcastic perhaps but to clear my plate, it was > > not > > > my > > > > original! > > > > > > > > Think about that, seriously, based on your personal reality -- > > > > > please --rather than hitting the reply button and ...! > > > > > > > > Let us begin a new thread and really lay down our > > understanding > > > about > > > > the light that we glibly talk about in the astrological > > framework > > > of > > > > reference. > > > > > > > > Other than the SUN the only source of light that we know and > > can > > > > defend and moon its biggest reflector. > > > > > > > > But let us go beyond that and discuss what this > > > astrological 'light' > > > > really is about in day to day astrology. We all can go and > > read > > > > classics, thanks to many giants on whose shoulders we have > > been > > > > allowed to stand and see far out! > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously > > low rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > RELISH > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to- Phone > > call rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for > just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Does one reach the escape velocity ? Or just a velocity which breaks the sound barrier of thoughts and the conscious awareness. In such a case one is subjected to the laws and has to once again begin abinitio, the earlier inings there , being counted too but we are not aware of the scores. For each karma done,whether one wants or not, the fruit will be there. regards rishi , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Krishnan ji, > > Thanks! > The last sentence in your post is a keeper. Please allow me to > highlight it? > > <<otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning>> > > Hence, despite no hope for an escape, the little insect must continue > to write, here, there, everywhere because it is not the web that is > killing it but the fact that it decided to give up writing that > manual, "How to prevent Karma, at least the next time around!" > > The sages are gone, the more recent NON-SAGE writers are gone, even > more recent regular grihastha jyotishis and jyotish writers are gone! > Ripe fruit, keep falling daily, all the time and no one is surprised > anymore. > > But Jyotish miraculously lives on and even improves in some ways. The > very fact that the Spider is giving the insect a chance and time to > write the treatise is meaningful! The Spider is not hungry, it is > just doing its duty. The insect, on the other hand, is the one on > whom God's limelight is focused on!! > > RR > > > > , vattem krishnan > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > Sir, > > Risks being misunderstood and mis perceived need no > anticipation.it is always fecilitation of web based media and needs > more preservance. > > Karma is omni present in all actions good or bad.henceeternal.if > spider preys throgh the web and insect becomes victim as that day it > was the turn of the insect,i feel these are all events that happen > around to witness.the study of the creation is awesome and to account > for the happenings we lack really script.people venture to > define "maya" and may be iam trying to define what it is knowing > fully well is abstract.This interlocked and interconnected > dependance can also be preceived as dahrma to follow for the rest of > ardha,kama and moksha.After all stages in life that come as result of > cycle from birth to death do not need also a volunteer.things go on > and on....we either have to get amused and feel helpless or break > boundaries to violate and do something different.if this is what Maha > purush constitutes how ever rarely they dawn and happen.we need to > embold ourselves to do differently and bow every day to give you that > element to say you would like to different from > > others.otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning > > krishnan > > krishnan > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > Krishnanji, > > > > Responding to your posting in the thread but not necessarily > > responding to your last message alone or even other messages but > just > > addressing a thought-core that I am perceiving through my biased > > human perception! > > > > People describe and discuss karma and describe divinity or even > God. > > Or try to anyway. > > I am not criticising anyone because regardless of what spirit or > vein > > something is written, by me, or anyone for that matter risks being > > misunderstood and misperceived etc. > > > > So let me just say it, as is my nature :-) > > > > Three images loom in front of my mind's eye: > > > > A small child raised by loving parents trying to define and > describe > > and write an essay on its Parents. > > > > The same child now a teenager, doing the same > > > > The child, now a parent himself, describing his parent > > > > > > > > The human being trying to describe God at different stages in his > or > > her life! > > > > Another more fearsome image also looms in front of my mind's eye. > > > > A tiny insect caught in the Spider's web trying to write a treatise > > on the escape route! > > > > A little sign near the web reads, "Karma" > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > This thread crux for wiping out past debts always keep > surfacing > > for the reason"as we are caught in the mesh of past and present" > > > If 'paropakaram is parama dharmam'we must find volunteers to do > > good selflessly.we know sages, seers and mahapurushas be it Lord > > jesus Christ,Shri Shrdi Saibaba or even Satya Saibaba led the way > to > > establish the fact that wiping out tears from torn faces and show > > them the way to lead life of righteousness was their concern.In the > > process what they have gained or lost is beyond our comprehension > for > > the present.one thing is sure to the world that they christened > > as "messengers of god"..people found solace in their preachings and > > followers were blind enough to accept the path suggested by them to > > find merit and adopt the life.Also we are not aware of their karmic > > results in the process.one thing evident that merits for future > > guidance is""paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". doing good > > to others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this is the > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the suffering"if this > > logic is meant for improving one's own account > > > through these means and dedicate for the cause of 'manava sevaye > > madhava seva'and alleviate the sufferings of the some atleast there > > is some purpose to fulfil as a mission to do their bit as part of > > life.ultimately one has to contend'strange are the ways of God'to > > find swayam sevaks to deliver to the society in larger interest and > > involve in the struggle for good and bad.It must the same as'Dharma > > smasthapanaya sambhavami yuge yuge' > > > krishnan > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > dear krishnan ji > > > > > > we discussed this subject in various threads earlier in this > group > > > but it is always good to discuss this important dimension again. > > > > > > in my understanding, the horoscope is like the statement of > karmic > > > account as on the date of birth in which all the deeds of his > > > previous births have been factored and an "indication" of future > is > > > presented. in share market, the footnote of any IPO says "past > > > performance is not an indicator of future success". > > > > > > generally till 15 years of ago, a native has no physical or > mental > > > capacity to change his karmic account. but afterwards as the > > native > > > gains knowledge, the karmic account can be changed as he wish > to. > > > by doing good deeds he can earn more merit or wipe off the sins. > > > similarly by doing wrong deeds he can earn more sins and wipe off > > > the merits. to decipher merit and sin, sage vyasa said > > > simply "paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". doing good to > > > others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this is the > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the suffering and > > heal > > > them like jesus or shirdi saibaba did. even ramakrishna and > > > vivekananda helped crores of people achieve self realisation. > all > > > these god realised people are god themselves and there is no > > > difference between god and these realised people. > > > > > > as mark once observed rightly, "your fuure is in your hands". > you > > > are not a puppet with the strings in the hands of the nine > > planets. > > > you have the power to break free and move forward or surrender to > > > the planets with inaction and have no growth at all. for a > > realised > > > person, planets are meaningless. for an ordinary layman enmeshed > > in > > > the maya of dependance on few individuals or few objects, planets > > > are gods. for a realised person, god is within and he is god. > > > > > > here comes the role of a guru to help one achieve this > realisation. > > > > > > with best wishes and regards > > > arjun > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Shri Arjun ji, > > > > is it not that true that if we can get light and get > satisfied > > > with 'all are equated in getting the light of knowledge" > > > > removal of ignorance or darkness is a very very long journey > > > that involves not a single birth/janma.After all effort should be > > to > > > keep making value additions in evry janma with consciouness and > > > (some)realsiation > > > > regards > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > Dear Members > > > > > > > > We have always emphasised the fact that classical works r the > > > main framework of Jyotishya anyday and we need to use its built > in > > > desha, kala, paristihhi rule in it to amend, adopt it for the > > > times, country, culture, political, ecconimic sitiations we are > > > analysing. > > > > > > > > THE ORIGINAL QUESTION is not being covered but around it a > lot > > > of discussion is going on. > > > > > > > > GURU in lagna a benefic, WILL HE REMOVE 100 AFLICTIONS Y/N > > > > > > > > this is true and no use digging into irrelevent logic, stasts. > > > > > > > > as for a given chart he may remove 100 aflictions there can > be > > > many more present. > > > > so why dispute the 100 which 100 is the question > > > > > > > > GARGA is the source of this rule, guru in Lagna removes 100 > > > aflictions, in 10th many more 100's > > > > > > > > BUT PLEASE REMEMBER THE 1ST PREAMBLE SLOKA ONE WRITES IN A > > > JANMA PATRI , very few computer horosope programs print this > > > > > > > > Janani Janma Soukhyanam > > > > Vardhini Kula Sampadaam > > > > Padavim purvapunyaanaam > > > > Likhyetha Janampatrikahnaam > > > > > > > > [there can be typos here] > > > > > > > > meaning the interpretations from a horoscope are compiled > form > > > the ommissions, commission of the family, which arise from its > > > status (morals), thus the native and his mothers fate r to be > > > forecasted. > > > > > > > > Bhagavad Geetha also says one is born into a family of a > > > particulkar trait as his previous vasana or sanmskaram thus > people > > > with good, ethical, dharmic, humble people are born into such > > > families and people with anger, greed, avarice, hatred, > contempt, > > > hunger, illhealth etc into similar recivers of such karmaic > > > balances only > > > > so all cant't have same 100 Doshas to be cleansed by Guru or > > for > > > that matter nay benefic. so there is bound to be various results > > > for different people born in the same Lagan that is 1/12 cases. > > > depending onther karma balance sheet > > > > a horoscope is the opening balance of Karma in this life. as > > > brough forward from past lives. > > > > > > > > Plus the other amsas, their lagnas also matter don't they? > > > > the other elements of a horoscope, like > shadbala,ashtakkavarga > > > and above all the time-dasa for such thing to happen a > protection > > > or insurance that Guru's 100 waiver gives. > > > > > > > > so a balanced and intelligent interpretation is called for no > > > outright acceptence or rejection. this problem comes as we are > > > trying to fit in a whole picture from a single point. when it is > > > only part of the whole picture thw whole picture msut be studied. > > > > > > > > I hope there is some light in this effort.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: dear RR ji > > > > > > > > before discussing light on astrological perspective, i > briefly > > > touch > > > > what this light is all about. > > > > > > > > our country "bharat" itself is full of light. bhasi diptau > > > ratah > > > > bharata. compare this to meaningless America which denote or > > > > connote nothing except the americans' darkness (ignorance) to > > > > continue their country remaining named after the Italian > > Amerigo > > > > Vespucci who was WRONGLY credited with discovering that land. > > > > > > > > what you said is true that, in layman's ability what is there > > in > > > > mind is seen only by eyes. verily sun and moon are > attributed > > > to > > > > both eyes or loosely as day and night. a realised person > > > closing > > > > the eyes can see with his mind with his "divya drishti" and > all > > > > sages and saints used to have this. > > > > > > > > Old Testament, Genesis says that the entire creation began > with > > > a > > > > light. it also says man is god's own image. when we > say "lead > > > us > > > > to light from darkness" and we want more light or knowledge > > > > like "tamaso ma yotir gamaya" we mean dispelling > our "ignorance > > > or > > > > darkness" with the "light or knoweldge". a realised person > > sees > > > the > > > > light or god within and an ignorant person remains in dark > and > > > does > > > > not see god. > > > > > > > > it is written in upanishads that to know that light (god) and > > > reach > > > > that light, one shall approach a Guru (jupiter) who has > > realised > > > > god. simply put, to remove our darkness or ignorance we seek > > > light > > > > or knowledge for which we approach the guru or jupiter. > > > > > > > > in this context, the light of jupiter or knowledge helps the > > > native > > > > realise the god. be it the jupiter (guru of devatas) or the > > > planet > > > > jupiter or the human guru, and remove our ignorance of > > darkness. > > > > > > > > may jupiter's light shine on all. > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The proof that light exists in the astropragmatic (used to > be > > > > called > > > > > astro-LOGICAL) framework is simple. It is what can actually > > be > > > > seen > > > > > because without light one cannot see! Right? What one can > see > > > is > > > > > where light is at! > > > > > > > > > > Some have extended that to say: What the mind knows, only > > that > > > the > > > > > eyes can see! Sarcastic perhaps but to clear my plate, it > was > > > not > > > > my > > > > > original! > > > > > > > > > > Think about that, seriously, based on your personal > reality -- > > > > > > > please --rather than hitting the reply button and ...! > > > > > > > > > > Let us begin a new thread and really lay down our > > > understanding > > > > about > > > > > the light that we glibly talk about in the astrological > > > framework > > > > of > > > > > reference. > > > > > > > > > > Other than the SUN the only source of light that we know > and > > > can > > > > > defend and moon its biggest reflector. > > > > > > > > > > But let us go beyond that and discuss what this > > > > astrological 'light' > > > > > really is about in day to day astrology. We all can go and > > > read > > > > > classics, thanks to many giants on whose shoulders we have > > > been > > > > > allowed to stand and see far out! > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously > > > low rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > > RELISH > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to- > Phone > > > call rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > RELISH > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for > > just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for > just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Rishi, You make a good point, but I would like to stretch the analogy a bit more, to the side, if I may :-) It is true that a certain escape velocity would be required to escape from the grativational pull (and would vary for each planet because the gravitational force would be different, I believe). One may extend the metaphor and see the similarity between escape from gravity and escape from the in-the-box or thinking in the groove (skilfully trying to avoid the emotion-charged 'T' and "O" words!). However, in order to escape G, one does not have to leave the earth and antigravity practice simulators come to mind where astronauts practice. One can remain within the BIG KARMA while escaping little karma at least temporarily! I remember Mr. KN Rao once quoted Ramkrishna Parmahamsa who had stated that human soul is like the goat tied to a pole with a rope within a locked courtyard. The Walls are the big KARMA boundaries (dridha, I believe it is called technically) and the rope is the small karma and so called Free-will. Interesting analogy. However, the thing that came to my mind immediately was this: If the goat was a human child (say 10 or 12 even -- much less than 15 say -- I am sure he would be able to untie the rope around his neck and climb the wall and escape. That is the difference between the allegory of the goat when applied to humans! Hence there is more hope for humans through understanding and remedies to overcome karma and boundaries and generally speaking "G"! And by remedies I dont mean gemstones or easy escape routes alone! Does this make sense? RR , "rishi_2000in" <rishi_2000in wrote: > > Does one reach the escape velocity ? > Or just a velocity which breaks the sound barrier of thoughts and > the conscious awareness. > In such a case one is subjected to the laws and has to once again > begin abinitio, the earlier inings there , being counted too but we > are not aware of the scores. > For each karma done,whether one wants or not, the fruit will be > there. > regards > rishi > > > > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Krishnan ji, > > > > Thanks! > > The last sentence in your post is a keeper. Please allow me to > > highlight it? > > > > <<otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning>> > > > > Hence, despite no hope for an escape, the little insect must > continue > > to write, here, there, everywhere because it is not the web that > is > > killing it but the fact that it decided to give up writing that > > manual, "How to prevent Karma, at least the next time around!" > > > > The sages are gone, the more recent NON-SAGE writers are gone, > even > > more recent regular grihastha jyotishis and jyotish writers are > gone! > > Ripe fruit, keep falling daily, all the time and no one is > surprised > > anymore. > > > > But Jyotish miraculously lives on and even improves in some ways. > The > > very fact that the Spider is giving the insect a chance and time > to > > write the treatise is meaningful! The Spider is not hungry, it is > > just doing its duty. The insect, on the other hand, is the one on > > whom God's limelight is focused on!! > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > Sir, > > > Risks being misunderstood and mis perceived need no > > anticipation.it is always fecilitation of web based media and > needs > > more preservance. > > > Karma is omni present in all actions good or > bad.henceeternal.if > > spider preys throgh the web and insect becomes victim as that day > it > > was the turn of the insect,i feel these are all events that happen > > around to witness.the study of the creation is awesome and to > account > > for the happenings we lack really script.people venture to > > define "maya" and may be iam trying to define what it is knowing > > fully well is abstract.This interlocked and interconnected > > dependance can also be preceived as dahrma to follow for the rest > of > > ardha,kama and moksha.After all stages in life that come as result > of > > cycle from birth to death do not need also a volunteer.things go > on > > and on....we either have to get amused and feel helpless or break > > boundaries to violate and do something different.if this is what > Maha > > purush constitutes how ever rarely they dawn and happen.we need to > > embold ourselves to do differently and bow every day to give you > that > > element to say you would like to different from > > > others.otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning > > > krishnan > > > krishnan > > > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > Krishnanji, > > > > > > Responding to your posting in the thread but not necessarily > > > responding to your last message alone or even other messages but > > just > > > addressing a thought-core that I am perceiving through my biased > > > human perception! > > > > > > People describe and discuss karma and describe divinity or even > > God. > > > Or try to anyway. > > > I am not criticising anyone because regardless of what spirit or > > vein > > > something is written, by me, or anyone for that matter risks > being > > > misunderstood and misperceived etc. > > > > > > So let me just say it, as is my nature :-) > > > > > > Three images loom in front of my mind's eye: > > > > > > A small child raised by loving parents trying to define and > > describe > > > and write an essay on its Parents. > > > > > > The same child now a teenager, doing the same > > > > > > The child, now a parent himself, describing his parent > > > > > > > > > > > > The human being trying to describe God at different stages in > his > > or > > > her life! > > > > > > Another more fearsome image also looms in front of my mind's eye. > > > > > > A tiny insect caught in the Spider's web trying to write a > treatise > > > on the escape route! > > > > > > A little sign near the web reads, "Karma" > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > This thread crux for wiping out past debts always keep > > surfacing > > > for the reason"as we are caught in the mesh of past and present" > > > > If 'paropakaram is parama dharmam'we must find volunteers to > do > > > good selflessly.we know sages, seers and mahapurushas be it Lord > > > jesus Christ,Shri Shrdi Saibaba or even Satya Saibaba led the > way > > to > > > establish the fact that wiping out tears from torn faces and > show > > > them the way to lead life of righteousness was their concern.In > the > > > process what they have gained or lost is beyond our > comprehension > > for > > > the present.one thing is sure to the world that they christened > > > as "messengers of god"..people found solace in their preachings > and > > > followers were blind enough to accept the path suggested by them > to > > > find merit and adopt the life.Also we are not aware of their > karmic > > > results in the process.one thing evident that merits for future > > > guidance is""paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". doing > good > > > to others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this is > the > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the suffering"if > this > > > logic is meant for improving one's own account > > > > through these means and dedicate for the cause of 'manava > sevaye > > > madhava seva'and alleviate the sufferings of the some atleast > there > > > is some purpose to fulfil as a mission to do their bit as part > of > > > life.ultimately one has to contend'strange are the ways of > God'to > > > find swayam sevaks to deliver to the society in larger interest > and > > > involve in the struggle for good and bad.It must the same > as'Dharma > > > smasthapanaya sambhavami yuge yuge' > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > dear krishnan ji > > > > > > > > we discussed this subject in various threads earlier in this > > group > > > > but it is always good to discuss this important dimension > again. > > > > > > > > in my understanding, the horoscope is like the statement of > > karmic > > > > account as on the date of birth in which all the deeds of his > > > > previous births have been factored and an "indication" of > future > > is > > > > presented. in share market, the footnote of any IPO > says "past > > > > performance is not an indicator of future success". > > > > > > > > generally till 15 years of ago, a native has no physical or > > mental > > > > capacity to change his karmic account. but afterwards as the > > > native > > > > gains knowledge, the karmic account can be changed as he wish > > to. > > > > by doing good deeds he can earn more merit or wipe off the > sins. > > > > similarly by doing wrong deeds he can earn more sins and wipe > off > > > > the merits. to decipher merit and sin, sage vyasa said > > > > simply "paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". doing good > to > > > > others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this is > the > > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the suffering > and > > > heal > > > > them like jesus or shirdi saibaba did. even ramakrishna and > > > > vivekananda helped crores of people achieve self realisation. > > all > > > > these god realised people are god themselves and there is no > > > > difference between god and these realised people. > > > > > > > > as mark once observed rightly, "your fuure is in your hands". > > you > > > > are not a puppet with the strings in the hands of the nine > > > planets. > > > > you have the power to break free and move forward or surrender > to > > > > the planets with inaction and have no growth at all. for a > > > realised > > > > person, planets are meaningless. for an ordinary layman > enmeshed > > > in > > > > the maya of dependance on few individuals or few objects, > planets > > > > are gods. for a realised person, god is within and he is god. > > > > > > > > here comes the role of a guru to help one achieve this > > realisation. > > > > > > > > with best wishes and regards > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Shri Arjun ji, > > > > > is it not that true that if we can get light and get > > satisfied > > > > with 'all are equated in getting the light of knowledge" > > > > > removal of ignorance or darkness is a very very long > journey > > > > that involves not a single birth/janma.After all effort should > be > > > to > > > > keep making value additions in evry janma with consciouness > and > > > > (some)realsiation > > > > > regards > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > > Dear Members > > > > > > > > > > We have always emphasised the fact that classical works r > the > > > > main framework of Jyotishya anyday and we need to use its > built > > in > > > > desha, kala, paristihhi rule in it to amend, adopt it for the > > > > times, country, culture, political, ecconimic sitiations we > are > > > > analysing. > > > > > > > > > > THE ORIGINAL QUESTION is not being covered but around it a > > lot > > > > of discussion is going on. > > > > > > > > > > GURU in lagna a benefic, WILL HE REMOVE 100 AFLICTIONS Y/N > > > > > > > > > > this is true and no use digging into irrelevent logic, > stasts. > > > > > > > > > > as for a given chart he may remove 100 aflictions there > can > > be > > > > many more present. > > > > > so why dispute the 100 which 100 is the question > > > > > > > > > > GARGA is the source of this rule, guru in Lagna removes > 100 > > > > aflictions, in 10th many more 100's > > > > > > > > > > BUT PLEASE REMEMBER THE 1ST PREAMBLE SLOKA ONE WRITES IN > A > > > > JANMA PATRI , very few computer horosope programs print this > > > > > > > > > > Janani Janma Soukhyanam > > > > > Vardhini Kula Sampadaam > > > > > Padavim purvapunyaanaam > > > > > Likhyetha Janampatrikahnaam > > > > > > > > > > [there can be typos here] > > > > > > > > > > meaning the interpretations from a horoscope are compiled > > form > > > > the ommissions, commission of the family, which arise from > its > > > > status (morals), thus the native and his mothers fate r to > be > > > > forecasted. > > > > > > > > > > Bhagavad Geetha also says one is born into a family of a > > > > particulkar trait as his previous vasana or sanmskaram thus > > people > > > > with good, ethical, dharmic, humble people are born into such > > > > families and people with anger, greed, avarice, hatred, > > contempt, > > > > hunger, illhealth etc into similar recivers of such karmaic > > > > balances only > > > > > so all cant't have same 100 Doshas to be cleansed by Guru > or > > > for > > > > that matter nay benefic. so there is bound to be various > results > > > > for different people born in the same Lagan that is 1/12 > cases. > > > > depending onther karma balance sheet > > > > > a horoscope is the opening balance of Karma in this life. > as > > > > brough forward from past lives. > > > > > > > > > > Plus the other amsas, their lagnas also matter don't they? > > > > > the other elements of a horoscope, like > > shadbala,ashtakkavarga > > > > and above all the time-dasa for such thing to happen a > > protection > > > > or insurance that Guru's 100 waiver gives. > > > > > > > > > > so a balanced and intelligent interpretation is called for > no > > > > outright acceptence or rejection. this problem comes as we > are > > > > trying to fit in a whole picture from a single point. when it > is > > > > only part of the whole picture thw whole picture msut be > studied. > > > > > > > > > > I hope there is some light in this effort.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: dear RR ji > > > > > > > > > > before discussing light on astrological perspective, i > > briefly > > > > touch > > > > > what this light is all about. > > > > > > > > > > our country "bharat" itself is full of light. bhasi > diptau > > > > ratah > > > > > bharata. compare this to meaningless America which denote > or > > > > > connote nothing except the americans' darkness (ignorance) > to > > > > > continue their country remaining named after the Italian > > > Amerigo > > > > > Vespucci who was WRONGLY credited with discovering that > land. > > > > > > > > > > what you said is true that, in layman's ability what is > there > > > in > > > > > mind is seen only by eyes. verily sun and moon are > > attributed > > > > to > > > > > both eyes or loosely as day and night. a realised person > > > > closing > > > > > the eyes can see with his mind with his "divya drishti" > and > > all > > > > > sages and saints used to have this. > > > > > > > > > > Old Testament, Genesis says that the entire creation began > > with > > > > a > > > > > light. it also says man is god's own image. when we > > say "lead > > > > us > > > > > to light from darkness" and we want more light or > knowledge > > > > > like "tamaso ma yotir gamaya" we mean dispelling > > our "ignorance > > > > or > > > > > darkness" with the "light or knoweldge". a realised > person > > > sees > > > > the > > > > > light or god within and an ignorant person remains in dark > > and > > > > does > > > > > not see god. > > > > > > > > > > it is written in upanishads that to know that light (god) > and > > > > reach > > > > > that light, one shall approach a Guru (jupiter) who has > > > realised > > > > > god. simply put, to remove our darkness or ignorance we > seek > > > > light > > > > > or knowledge for which we approach the guru or jupiter. > > > > > > > > > > in this context, the light of jupiter or knowledge helps > the > > > > native > > > > > realise the god. be it the jupiter (guru of devatas) or > the > > > > planet > > > > > jupiter or the human guru, and remove our ignorance of > > > darkness. > > > > > > > > > > may jupiter's light shine on all. > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The proof that light exists in the astropragmatic (used > to > > be > > > > > called > > > > > > astro-LOGICAL) framework is simple. It is what can > actually > > > be > > > > > seen > > > > > > because without light one cannot see! Right? What one > can > > see > > > > is > > > > > > where light is at! > > > > > > > > > > > > Some have extended that to say: What the mind knows, > only > > > that > > > > the > > > > > > eyes can see! Sarcastic perhaps but to clear my plate, > it > > was > > > > not > > > > > my > > > > > > original! > > > > > > > > > > > > Think about that, seriously, based on your personal > > reality -- > > > > > > > > > please --rather than hitting the reply button and ...! > > > > > > > > > > > > Let us begin a new thread and really lay down our > > > > understanding > > > > > about > > > > > > the light that we glibly talk about in the astrological > > > > framework > > > > > of > > > > > > reference. > > > > > > > > > > > > Other than the SUN the only source of light that we know > > and > > > > can > > > > > > defend and moon its biggest reflector. > > > > > > > > > > > > But let us go beyond that and discuss what this > > > > > astrological 'light' > > > > > > really is about in day to day astrology. We all can go > and > > > > read > > > > > > classics, thanks to many giants on whose shoulders we > have > > > > been > > > > > > allowed to stand and see far out! > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY > AND > > > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > of > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for > ridiculously > > > > low rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > > > RELISH > > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > of > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to- > > Phone > > > > call rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > > RELISH > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries > for > > > just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > RELISH > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries > for > > just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 [Om Namo Narayanaya] RRji, More often than not, the poor being is unaware of being shackled, so subtle is the bondage. Nor does it know that it is operating within a restricted ambit, it is happy to think that it is *free*. The thought of escape arises only when and if it realises the surreality of it all, the walls, the rope. Till then it is ignorantly, bissfully happy in its own 'free' world. My few thoughts Regards nalini [On Namah Shivaya Namah Mallikarjunaya] , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Rishi, > > You make a good point, but I would like to stretch the analogy a bit > more, to the side, if I may :-) > It is true that a certain escape velocity would be required to escape > from the grativational pull (and would vary for each planet because > the gravitational force would be different, I believe). One may > extend the metaphor and see the similarity between escape from > gravity and escape from the in-the-box or thinking in the groove > (skilfully trying to avoid the emotion-charged 'T' and "O" words!). > > However, in order to escape G, one does not have to leave the earth > and antigravity practice simulators come to mind where astronauts > practice. One can remain within the BIG KARMA while escaping little > karma at least temporarily! > > I remember Mr. KN Rao once quoted Ramkrishna Parmahamsa who had > stated that human soul is like the goat tied to a pole with a rope > within a locked courtyard. The Walls are the big KARMA boundaries > (dridha, I believe it is called technically) and the rope is the > small karma and so called Free-will. Interesting analogy. > > However, the thing that came to my mind immediately was this: If the > goat was a human child (say 10 or 12 even -- much less than 15 say -- > I am sure he would be able to untie the rope around his neck and > climb the wall and escape. That is the difference between the > allegory of the goat when applied to humans! > > Hence there is more hope for humans through understanding and > remedies to overcome karma and boundaries and generally speaking "G"! > And by remedies I dont mean gemstones or easy escape routes alone! > > Does this make sense? > > RR > > , "rishi_2000in" > <rishi_2000in@> wrote: > > > > Does one reach the escape velocity ? > > Or just a velocity which breaks the sound barrier of thoughts and > > the conscious awareness. > > In such a case one is subjected to the laws and has to once again > > begin abinitio, the earlier inings there , being counted too but we > > are not aware of the scores. > > For each karma done,whether one wants or not, the fruit will be > > there. > > regards > > rishi > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Krishnan ji, > > > > > > Thanks! > > > The last sentence in your post is a keeper. Please allow me to > > > highlight it? > > > > > > <<otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning>> > > > > > > Hence, despite no hope for an escape, the little insect must > > continue > > > to write, here, there, everywhere because it is not the web that > > is > > > killing it but the fact that it decided to give up writing that > > > manual, "How to prevent Karma, at least the next time around!" > > > > > > The sages are gone, the more recent NON-SAGE writers are gone, > > even > > > more recent regular grihastha jyotishis and jyotish writers are > > gone! > > > Ripe fruit, keep falling daily, all the time and no one is > > surprised > > > anymore. > > > > > > But Jyotish miraculously lives on and even improves in some ways. > > The > > > very fact that the Spider is giving the insect a chance and time > > to > > > write the treatise is meaningful! The Spider is not hungry, it is > > > just doing its duty. The insect, on the other hand, is the one on > > > whom God's limelight is focused on!! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Sir, > > > > Risks being misunderstood and mis perceived need no > > > anticipation.it is always fecilitation of web based media and > > needs > > > more preservance. > > > > Karma is omni present in all actions good or > > bad.henceeternal.if > > > spider preys throgh the web and insect becomes victim as that > day > > it > > > was the turn of the insect,i feel these are all events that > happen > > > around to witness.the study of the creation is awesome and to > > account > > > for the happenings we lack really script.people venture to > > > define "maya" and may be iam trying to define what it is knowing > > > fully well is abstract.This interlocked and interconnected > > > dependance can also be preceived as dahrma to follow for the rest > > of > > > ardha,kama and moksha.After all stages in life that come as > result > > of > > > cycle from birth to death do not need also a volunteer.things go > > on > > > and on....we either have to get amused and feel helpless or break > > > boundaries to violate and do something different.if this is what > > Maha > > > purush constitutes how ever rarely they dawn and happen.we need > to > > > embold ourselves to do differently and bow every day to give you > > that > > > element to say you would like to different from > > > > others.otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning > > > > krishnan > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Krishnanji, > > > > > > > > Responding to your posting in the thread but not necessarily > > > > responding to your last message alone or even other messages > but > > > just > > > > addressing a thought-core that I am perceiving through my > biased > > > > human perception! > > > > > > > > People describe and discuss karma and describe divinity or even > > > God. > > > > Or try to anyway. > > > > I am not criticising anyone because regardless of what spirit > or > > > vein > > > > something is written, by me, or anyone for that matter risks > > being > > > > misunderstood and misperceived etc. > > > > > > > > So let me just say it, as is my nature :-) > > > > > > > > Three images loom in front of my mind's eye: > > > > > > > > A small child raised by loving parents trying to define and > > > describe > > > > and write an essay on its Parents. > > > > > > > > The same child now a teenager, doing the same > > > > > > > > The child, now a parent himself, describing his parent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The human being trying to describe God at different stages in > > his > > > or > > > > her life! > > > > > > > > Another more fearsome image also looms in front of my mind's > eye. > > > > > > > > A tiny insect caught in the Spider's web trying to write a > > treatise > > > > on the escape route! > > > > > > > > A little sign near the web reads, "Karma" > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > This thread crux for wiping out past debts always keep > > > surfacing > > > > for the reason"as we are caught in the mesh of past and present" > > > > > If 'paropakaram is parama dharmam'we must find volunteers > to > > do > > > > good selflessly.we know sages, seers and mahapurushas be it > Lord > > > > jesus Christ,Shri Shrdi Saibaba or even Satya Saibaba led the > > way > > > to > > > > establish the fact that wiping out tears from torn faces and > > show > > > > them the way to lead life of righteousness was their concern.In > > the > > > > process what they have gained or lost is beyond our > > comprehension > > > for > > > > the present.one thing is sure to the world that they christened > > > > as "messengers of god"..people found solace in their preachings > > and > > > > followers were blind enough to accept the path suggested by > them > > to > > > > find merit and adopt the life.Also we are not aware of their > > karmic > > > > results in the process.one thing evident that merits for future > > > > guidance is""paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". doing > > good > > > > to others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this is > > the > > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the suffering"if > > this > > > > logic is meant for improving one's own account > > > > > through these means and dedicate for the cause of 'manava > > sevaye > > > > madhava seva'and alleviate the sufferings of the some atleast > > there > > > > is some purpose to fulfil as a mission to do their bit as part > > of > > > > life.ultimately one has to contend'strange are the ways of > > God'to > > > > find swayam sevaks to deliver to the society in larger interest > > and > > > > involve in the struggle for good and bad.It must the same > > as'Dharma > > > > smasthapanaya sambhavami yuge yuge' > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > dear krishnan ji > > > > > > > > > > we discussed this subject in various threads earlier in this > > > group > > > > > but it is always good to discuss this important dimension > > again. > > > > > > > > > > in my understanding, the horoscope is like the statement of > > > karmic > > > > > account as on the date of birth in which all the deeds of his > > > > > previous births have been factored and an "indication" of > > future > > > is > > > > > presented. in share market, the footnote of any IPO > > says "past > > > > > performance is not an indicator of future success". > > > > > > > > > > generally till 15 years of ago, a native has no physical or > > > mental > > > > > capacity to change his karmic account. but afterwards as the > > > > native > > > > > gains knowledge, the karmic account can be changed as he wish > > > to. > > > > > by doing good deeds he can earn more merit or wipe off the > > sins. > > > > > similarly by doing wrong deeds he can earn more sins and wipe > > off > > > > > the merits. to decipher merit and sin, sage vyasa said > > > > > simply "paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". doing > good > > to > > > > > others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this is > > the > > > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the suffering > > and > > > > heal > > > > > them like jesus or shirdi saibaba did. even ramakrishna and > > > > > vivekananda helped crores of people achieve self > realisation. > > > all > > > > > these god realised people are god themselves and there is no > > > > > difference between god and these realised people. > > > > > > > > > > as mark once observed rightly, "your fuure is in your > hands". > > > you > > > > > are not a puppet with the strings in the hands of the nine > > > > planets. > > > > > you have the power to break free and move forward or > surrender > > to > > > > > the planets with inaction and have no growth at all. for a > > > > realised > > > > > person, planets are meaningless. for an ordinary layman > > enmeshed > > > > in > > > > > the maya of dependance on few individuals or few objects, > > planets > > > > > are gods. for a realised person, god is within and he is god. > > > > > > > > > > here comes the role of a guru to help one achieve this > > > realisation. > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and regards > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Shri Arjun ji, > > > > > > is it not that true that if we can get light and get > > > satisfied > > > > > with 'all are equated in getting the light of knowledge" > > > > > > removal of ignorance or darkness is a very very long > > journey > > > > > that involves not a single birth/janma.After all effort > should > > be > > > > to > > > > > keep making value additions in evry janma with consciouness > > and > > > > > (some)realsiation > > > > > > regards > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Members > > > > > > > > > > > > We have always emphasised the fact that classical works r > > the > > > > > main framework of Jyotishya anyday and we need to use its > > built > > > in > > > > > desha, kala, paristihhi rule in it to amend, adopt it for > the > > > > > times, country, culture, political, ecconimic sitiations we > > are > > > > > analysing. > > > > > > > > > > > > THE ORIGINAL QUESTION is not being covered but around it > a > > > lot > > > > > of discussion is going on. > > > > > > > > > > > > GURU in lagna a benefic, WILL HE REMOVE 100 AFLICTIONS Y/N > > > > > > > > > > > > this is true and no use digging into irrelevent logic, > > stasts. > > > > > > > > > > > > as for a given chart he may remove 100 aflictions there > > can > > > be > > > > > many more present. > > > > > > so why dispute the 100 which 100 is the question > > > > > > > > > > > > GARGA is the source of this rule, guru in Lagna removes > > 100 > > > > > aflictions, in 10th many more 100's > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT PLEASE REMEMBER THE 1ST PREAMBLE SLOKA ONE WRITES IN > > A > > > > > JANMA PATRI , very few computer horosope programs print this > > > > > > > > > > > > Janani Janma Soukhyanam > > > > > > Vardhini Kula Sampadaam > > > > > > Padavim purvapunyaanaam > > > > > > Likhyetha Janampatrikahnaam > > > > > > > > > > > > [there can be typos here] > > > > > > > > > > > > meaning the interpretations from a horoscope are compiled > > > form > > > > > the ommissions, commission of the family, which arise from > > its > > > > > status (morals), thus the native and his mothers fate r to > > be > > > > > forecasted. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhagavad Geetha also says one is born into a family of a > > > > > particulkar trait as his previous vasana or sanmskaram thus > > > people > > > > > with good, ethical, dharmic, humble people are born into > such > > > > > families and people with anger, greed, avarice, hatred, > > > contempt, > > > > > hunger, illhealth etc into similar recivers of such karmaic > > > > > balances only > > > > > > so all cant't have same 100 Doshas to be cleansed by Guru > > or > > > > for > > > > > that matter nay benefic. so there is bound to be various > > results > > > > > for different people born in the same Lagan that is 1/12 > > cases. > > > > > depending onther karma balance sheet > > > > > > a horoscope is the opening balance of Karma in this life. > > as > > > > > brough forward from past lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > Plus the other amsas, their lagnas also matter don't they? > > > > > > the other elements of a horoscope, like > > > shadbala,ashtakkavarga > > > > > and above all the time-dasa for such thing to happen a > > > protection > > > > > or insurance that Guru's 100 waiver gives. > > > > > > > > > > > > so a balanced and intelligent interpretation is called > for > > no > > > > > outright acceptence or rejection. this problem comes as we > > are > > > > > trying to fit in a whole picture from a single point. when > it > > is > > > > > only part of the whole picture thw whole picture msut be > > studied. > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope there is some light in this effort.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: dear RR ji > > > > > > > > > > > > before discussing light on astrological perspective, i > > > briefly > > > > > touch > > > > > > what this light is all about. > > > > > > > > > > > > our country "bharat" itself is full of light. bhasi > > diptau > > > > > ratah > > > > > > bharata. compare this to meaningless America which > denote > > or > > > > > > connote nothing except the americans' darkness > (ignorance) > > to > > > > > > continue their country remaining named after the Italian > > > > Amerigo > > > > > > Vespucci who was WRONGLY credited with discovering that > > land. > > > > > > > > > > > > what you said is true that, in layman's ability what is > > there > > > > in > > > > > > mind is seen only by eyes. verily sun and moon are > > > attributed > > > > > to > > > > > > both eyes or loosely as day and night. a realised person > > > > > closing > > > > > > the eyes can see with his mind with his "divya drishti" > > and > > > all > > > > > > sages and saints used to have this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Old Testament, Genesis says that the entire creation > began > > > with > > > > > a > > > > > > light. it also says man is god's own image. when we > > > say "lead > > > > > us > > > > > > to light from darkness" and we want more light or > > knowledge > > > > > > like "tamaso ma yotir gamaya" we mean dispelling > > > our "ignorance > > > > > or > > > > > > darkness" with the "light or knoweldge". a realised > > person > > > > sees > > > > > the > > > > > > light or god within and an ignorant person remains in > dark > > > and > > > > > does > > > > > > not see god. > > > > > > > > > > > > it is written in upanishads that to know that light (god) > > and > > > > > reach > > > > > > that light, one shall approach a Guru (jupiter) who has > > > > realised > > > > > > god. simply put, to remove our darkness or ignorance we > > seek > > > > > light > > > > > > or knowledge for which we approach the guru or jupiter. > > > > > > > > > > > > in this context, the light of jupiter or knowledge helps > > the > > > > > native > > > > > > realise the god. be it the jupiter (guru of devatas) or > > the > > > > > planet > > > > > > jupiter or the human guru, and remove our ignorance of > > > > darkness. > > > > > > > > > > > > may jupiter's light shine on all. > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The proof that light exists in the astropragmatic (used > > to > > > be > > > > > > called > > > > > > > astro-LOGICAL) framework is simple. It is what can > > actually > > > > be > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > because without light one cannot see! Right? What one > > can > > > see > > > > > is > > > > > > > where light is at! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some have extended that to say: What the mind knows, > > only > > > > that > > > > > the > > > > > > > eyes can see! Sarcastic perhaps but to clear my plate, > > it > > > was > > > > > not > > > > > > my > > > > > > > original! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think about that, seriously, based on your personal > > > reality -- > > > > > > > > > > > please --rather than hitting the reply button and ...! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let us begin a new thread and really lay down our > > > > > understanding > > > > > > about > > > > > > > the light that we glibly talk about in the astrological > > > > > framework > > > > > > of > > > > > > > reference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other than the SUN the only source of light that we > know > > > and > > > > > can > > > > > > > defend and moon its biggest reflector. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But let us go beyond that and discuss what this > > > > > > astrological 'light' > > > > > > > really is about in day to day astrology. We all can go > > and > > > > > read > > > > > > > classics, thanks to many giants on whose shoulders we > > have > > > > > been > > > > > > > allowed to stand and see far out! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY > > AND > > > > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > > of > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for > > ridiculously > > > > > low rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > > > > RELISH > > > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > > of > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC- to- > > > Phone > > > > > call rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > > > RELISH > > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology > software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > > of > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries > > for > > > > just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > > RELISH > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries > > for > > > just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Dear Nalini, As always, you came through :-) with a fresh look at the situation. Please take this as a compliment and not criticism (certainly not personal!) but most of us are really blind persons trying to figure out how the elephant is like and actually, unlike the fable of the elephant and men from Hindustan (as I believe it is called!), most of us do not even know for sure if it is an elephant or a big Spider! Being blind from birth, most of us. But when someone suddenly comes into this 'blind party' [misery does love company and it *is* a party! <I bet there would be five insulting emails taking me to task and showing me my place -- in response to that brash statement!> and claims or even PROCLAIMS that they are giving the answer the final answer based on scriptures and all then such statements must be responded to, questioned and challenged. That is not liked on some forums (fora) but I refuse to accept that position as even tenable. Simply put, we (all religions and cultures) have had scriptures and sage sayings and even more elite and illuminated statements, straight from the MOUTH of GOD, not for ten or hundred but THOUSANDS of years and according to a very sensational work in channeled literature (revealed truth essentially, though certain religions may not accept same for it did not come from within their courtyard) the TRUTH has been reinfused several times, many times before what we consider and accept our times, the ONLY times that creation has existed. Please remember this is just what has been written and not necessarily endorsed by the author of this message or forum administration! Pardon my defensiveness after the recent skid-row I survived, but the 'tiger balm' is really helping ;-) I like to draw all my inspiration from the pragmatic experience and wisdom and day-to-day reality. When I see that reflected and *CORRELATED* with something astral or astrological/symbological it confirms a wonderful phrase that touches my soul: AS ABOVE SO BELOW! It has been pointed out by kind souls that this statement is not kosher and not true, but is that enough? I mean I admire the staying power of the insect next to me on this KARMA-WEB, caught way before me in the web of karma and still alive, but should the credit go to him or the kindness of the SPIDER? RR , "auromirra19" <nalini2818 wrote: > > [Om Namo Narayanaya] > RRji, > More often than not, the poor being is unaware of being shackled, so > subtle is the bondage. Nor does it know that it is operating within > a restricted ambit, it is happy to think that it is *free*. The > thought of escape arises only when and if it realises the surreality > of it all, the walls, the rope. Till then it is ignorantly, > bissfully happy in its own 'free' world. > My few thoughts > Regards > nalini > [On Namah Shivaya Namah Mallikarjunaya] > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Rishi, > > > > You make a good point, but I would like to stretch the analogy a > bit > > more, to the side, if I may :-) > > It is true that a certain escape velocity would be required to > escape > > from the grativational pull (and would vary for each planet > because > > the gravitational force would be different, I believe). One may > > extend the metaphor and see the similarity between escape from > > gravity and escape from the in-the-box or thinking in the groove > > (skilfully trying to avoid the emotion-charged 'T' and "O" words!). > > > > However, in order to escape G, one does not have to leave the > earth > > and antigravity practice simulators come to mind where astronauts > > practice. One can remain within the BIG KARMA while escaping > little > > karma at least temporarily! > > > > I remember Mr. KN Rao once quoted Ramkrishna Parmahamsa who had > > stated that human soul is like the goat tied to a pole with a rope > > within a locked courtyard. The Walls are the big KARMA boundaries > > (dridha, I believe it is called technically) and the rope is the > > small karma and so called Free-will. Interesting analogy. > > > > However, the thing that came to my mind immediately was this: If > the > > goat was a human child (say 10 or 12 even -- much less than 15 > say -- > > I am sure he would be able to untie the rope around his neck and > > climb the wall and escape. That is the difference between the > > allegory of the goat when applied to humans! > > > > Hence there is more hope for humans through understanding and > > remedies to overcome karma and boundaries and generally > speaking "G"! > > And by remedies I dont mean gemstones or easy escape routes alone! > > > > Does this make sense? > > > > RR > > > > , "rishi_2000in" > > <rishi_2000in@> wrote: > > > > > > Does one reach the escape velocity ? > > > Or just a velocity which breaks the sound barrier of thoughts > and > > > the conscious awareness. > > > In such a case one is subjected to the laws and has to once > again > > > begin abinitio, the earlier inings there , being counted too but > we > > > are not aware of the scores. > > > For each karma done,whether one wants or not, the fruit will be > > > there. > > > regards > > > rishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Krishnan ji, > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > The last sentence in your post is a keeper. Please allow me to > > > > highlight it? > > > > > > > > <<otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning>> > > > > > > > > Hence, despite no hope for an escape, the little insect must > > > continue > > > > to write, here, there, everywhere because it is not the web > that > > > is > > > > killing it but the fact that it decided to give up writing > that > > > > manual, "How to prevent Karma, at least the next time around!" > > > > > > > > The sages are gone, the more recent NON-SAGE writers are gone, > > > even > > > > more recent regular grihastha jyotishis and jyotish writers > are > > > gone! > > > > Ripe fruit, keep falling daily, all the time and no one is > > > surprised > > > > anymore. > > > > > > > > But Jyotish miraculously lives on and even improves in some > ways. > > > The > > > > very fact that the Spider is giving the insect a chance and > time > > > to > > > > write the treatise is meaningful! The Spider is not hungry, it > is > > > > just doing its duty. The insect, on the other hand, is the one > on > > > > whom God's limelight is focused on!! > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sir, > > > > > Risks being misunderstood and mis perceived need no > > > > anticipation.it is always fecilitation of web based media and > > > needs > > > > more preservance. > > > > > Karma is omni present in all actions good or > > > bad.henceeternal.if > > > > spider preys throgh the web and insect becomes victim as that > > day > > > it > > > > was the turn of the insect,i feel these are all events that > > happen > > > > around to witness.the study of the creation is awesome and to > > > account > > > > for the happenings we lack really script.people venture to > > > > define "maya" and may be iam trying to define what it is > knowing > > > > fully well is abstract.This interlocked and interconnected > > > > dependance can also be preceived as dahrma to follow for the > rest > > > of > > > > ardha,kama and moksha.After all stages in life that come as > > result > > > of > > > > cycle from birth to death do not need also a volunteer.things > go > > > on > > > > and on....we either have to get amused and feel helpless or > break > > > > boundaries to violate and do something different.if this is > what > > > Maha > > > > purush constitutes how ever rarely they dawn and happen.we > need > > to > > > > embold ourselves to do differently and bow every day to give > you > > > that > > > > element to say you would like to different from > > > > > others.otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning > > > > > krishnan > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > Krishnanji, > > > > > > > > > > Responding to your posting in the thread but not necessarily > > > > > responding to your last message alone or even other messages > > but > > > > just > > > > > addressing a thought-core that I am perceiving through my > > biased > > > > > human perception! > > > > > > > > > > People describe and discuss karma and describe divinity or > even > > > > God. > > > > > Or try to anyway. > > > > > I am not criticising anyone because regardless of what > spirit > > or > > > > vein > > > > > something is written, by me, or anyone for that matter risks > > > being > > > > > misunderstood and misperceived etc. > > > > > > > > > > So let me just say it, as is my nature :-) > > > > > > > > > > Three images loom in front of my mind's eye: > > > > > > > > > > A small child raised by loving parents trying to define and > > > > describe > > > > > and write an essay on its Parents. > > > > > > > > > > The same child now a teenager, doing the same > > > > > > > > > > The child, now a parent himself, describing his parent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The human being trying to describe God at different stages > in > > > his > > > > or > > > > > her life! > > > > > > > > > > Another more fearsome image also looms in front of my mind's > > eye. > > > > > > > > > > A tiny insect caught in the Spider's web trying to write a > > > treatise > > > > > on the escape route! > > > > > > > > > > A little sign near the web reads, "Karma" > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > > This thread crux for wiping out past debts always keep > > > > surfacing > > > > > for the reason"as we are caught in the mesh of past and > present" > > > > > > If 'paropakaram is parama dharmam'we must find > volunteers > > to > > > do > > > > > good selflessly.we know sages, seers and mahapurushas be it > > Lord > > > > > jesus Christ,Shri Shrdi Saibaba or even Satya Saibaba led > the > > > way > > > > to > > > > > establish the fact that wiping out tears from torn faces and > > > show > > > > > them the way to lead life of righteousness was their > concern.In > > > the > > > > > process what they have gained or lost is beyond our > > > comprehension > > > > for > > > > > the present.one thing is sure to the world that they > christened > > > > > as "messengers of god"..people found solace in their > preachings > > > and > > > > > followers were blind enough to accept the path suggested by > > them > > > to > > > > > find merit and adopt the life.Also we are not aware of their > > > karmic > > > > > results in the process.one thing evident that merits for > future > > > > > guidance is""paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". > doing > > > good > > > > > to others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this > is > > > the > > > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the > suffering"if > > > this > > > > > logic is meant for improving one's own account > > > > > > through these means and dedicate for the cause of 'manava > > > sevaye > > > > > madhava seva'and alleviate the sufferings of the some > atleast > > > there > > > > > is some purpose to fulfil as a mission to do their bit as > part > > > of > > > > > life.ultimately one has to contend'strange are the ways of > > > God'to > > > > > find swayam sevaks to deliver to the society in larger > interest > > > and > > > > > involve in the struggle for good and bad.It must the same > > > as'Dharma > > > > > smasthapanaya sambhavami yuge yuge' > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > dear krishnan ji > > > > > > > > > > > > we discussed this subject in various threads earlier in > this > > > > group > > > > > > but it is always good to discuss this important dimension > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > > in my understanding, the horoscope is like the statement > of > > > > karmic > > > > > > account as on the date of birth in which all the deeds of > his > > > > > > previous births have been factored and an "indication" of > > > future > > > > is > > > > > > presented. in share market, the footnote of any IPO > > > says "past > > > > > > performance is not an indicator of future success". > > > > > > > > > > > > generally till 15 years of ago, a native has no physical > or > > > > mental > > > > > > capacity to change his karmic account. but afterwards as > the > > > > > native > > > > > > gains knowledge, the karmic account can be changed as he > wish > > > > to. > > > > > > by doing good deeds he can earn more merit or wipe off the > > > sins. > > > > > > similarly by doing wrong deeds he can earn more sins and > wipe > > > off > > > > > > the merits. to decipher merit and sin, sage vyasa said > > > > > > simply "paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". doing > > good > > > to > > > > > > others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this > is > > > the > > > > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the > suffering > > > and > > > > > heal > > > > > > them like jesus or shirdi saibaba did. even ramakrishna > and > > > > > > vivekananda helped crores of people achieve self > > realisation. > > > > all > > > > > > these god realised people are god themselves and there is > no > > > > > > difference between god and these realised people. > > > > > > > > > > > > as mark once observed rightly, "your fuure is in your > > hands". > > > > you > > > > > > are not a puppet with the strings in the hands of the nine > > > > > planets. > > > > > > you have the power to break free and move forward or > > surrender > > > to > > > > > > the planets with inaction and have no growth at all. for > a > > > > > realised > > > > > > person, planets are meaningless. for an ordinary layman > > > enmeshed > > > > > in > > > > > > the maya of dependance on few individuals or few objects, > > > planets > > > > > > are gods. for a realised person, god is within and he is > god. > > > > > > > > > > > > here comes the role of a guru to help one achieve this > > > > realisation. > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and regards > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Shri Arjun ji, > > > > > > > is it not that true that if we can get light and get > > > > satisfied > > > > > > with 'all are equated in getting the light of knowledge" > > > > > > > removal of ignorance or darkness is a very very long > > > journey > > > > > > that involves not a single birth/janma.After all effort > > should > > > be > > > > > to > > > > > > keep making value additions in evry janma with > consciouness > > > and > > > > > > (some)realsiation > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Members > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have always emphasised the fact that classical > works r > > > the > > > > > > main framework of Jyotishya anyday and we need to use its > > > built > > > > in > > > > > > desha, kala, paristihhi rule in it to amend, adopt it for > > the > > > > > > times, country, culture, political, ecconimic sitiations > we > > > are > > > > > > analysing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THE ORIGINAL QUESTION is not being covered but around > it > > a > > > > lot > > > > > > of discussion is going on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GURU in lagna a benefic, WILL HE REMOVE 100 AFLICTIONS > Y/N > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is true and no use digging into irrelevent logic, > > > stasts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as for a given chart he may remove 100 aflictions > there > > > can > > > > be > > > > > > many more present. > > > > > > > so why dispute the 100 which 100 is the question > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GARGA is the source of this rule, guru in Lagna > removes > > > 100 > > > > > > aflictions, in 10th many more 100's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT PLEASE REMEMBER THE 1ST PREAMBLE SLOKA ONE WRITES > IN > > > A > > > > > > JANMA PATRI , very few computer horosope programs print > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Janani Janma Soukhyanam > > > > > > > Vardhini Kula Sampadaam > > > > > > > Padavim purvapunyaanaam > > > > > > > Likhyetha Janampatrikahnaam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [there can be typos here] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > meaning the interpretations from a horoscope are > compiled > > > > form > > > > > > the ommissions, commission of the family, which arise > from > > > its > > > > > > status (morals), thus the native and his mothers fate r > to > > > be > > > > > > forecasted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhagavad Geetha also says one is born into a family of > a > > > > > > particulkar trait as his previous vasana or sanmskaram > thus > > > > people > > > > > > with good, ethical, dharmic, humble people are born into > > such > > > > > > families and people with anger, greed, avarice, hatred, > > > > contempt, > > > > > > hunger, illhealth etc into similar recivers of such > karmaic > > > > > > balances only > > > > > > > so all cant't have same 100 Doshas to be cleansed by > Guru > > > or > > > > > for > > > > > > that matter nay benefic. so there is bound to be various > > > results > > > > > > for different people born in the same Lagan that is 1/12 > > > cases. > > > > > > depending onther karma balance sheet > > > > > > > a horoscope is the opening balance of Karma in this > life. > > > as > > > > > > brough forward from past lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plus the other amsas, their lagnas also matter don't > they? > > > > > > > the other elements of a horoscope, like > > > > shadbala,ashtakkavarga > > > > > > and above all the time-dasa for such thing to happen a > > > > protection > > > > > > or insurance that Guru's 100 waiver gives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so a balanced and intelligent interpretation is called > > for > > > no > > > > > > outright acceptence or rejection. this problem comes as > we > > > are > > > > > > trying to fit in a whole picture from a single point. > when > > it > > > is > > > > > > only part of the whole picture thw whole picture msut be > > > studied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope there is some light in this effort.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: dear RR > ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > before discussing light on astrological perspective, i > > > > briefly > > > > > > touch > > > > > > > what this light is all about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our country "bharat" itself is full of light. bhasi > > > diptau > > > > > > ratah > > > > > > > bharata. compare this to meaningless America which > > denote > > > or > > > > > > > connote nothing except the americans' darkness > > (ignorance) > > > to > > > > > > > continue their country remaining named after the > Italian > > > > > Amerigo > > > > > > > Vespucci who was WRONGLY credited with discovering > that > > > land. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what you said is true that, in layman's ability what > is > > > there > > > > > in > > > > > > > mind is seen only by eyes. verily sun and moon are > > > > attributed > > > > > > to > > > > > > > both eyes or loosely as day and night. a realised > person > > > > > > closing > > > > > > > the eyes can see with his mind with his "divya > drishti" > > > and > > > > all > > > > > > > sages and saints used to have this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old Testament, Genesis says that the entire creation > > began > > > > with > > > > > > a > > > > > > > light. it also says man is god's own image. when we > > > > say "lead > > > > > > us > > > > > > > to light from darkness" and we want more light or > > > knowledge > > > > > > > like "tamaso ma yotir gamaya" we mean dispelling > > > > our "ignorance > > > > > > or > > > > > > > darkness" with the "light or knoweldge". a realised > > > person > > > > > sees > > > > > > the > > > > > > > light or god within and an ignorant person remains in > > dark > > > > and > > > > > > does > > > > > > > not see god. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is written in upanishads that to know that light > (god) > > > and > > > > > > reach > > > > > > > that light, one shall approach a Guru (jupiter) who > has > > > > > realised > > > > > > > god. simply put, to remove our darkness or ignorance > we > > > seek > > > > > > light > > > > > > > or knowledge for which we approach the guru or jupiter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in this context, the light of jupiter or knowledge > helps > > > the > > > > > > native > > > > > > > realise the god. be it the jupiter (guru of devatas) > or > > > the > > > > > > planet > > > > > > > jupiter or the human guru, and remove our ignorance > of > > > > > darkness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > may jupiter's light shine on all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal > pages" > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The proof that light exists in the astropragmatic > (used > > > to > > > > be > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > astro-LOGICAL) framework is simple. It is what can > > > actually > > > > > be > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > because without light one cannot see! Right? What > one > > > can > > > > see > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > where light is at! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some have extended that to say: What the mind knows, > > > only > > > > > that > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > eyes can see! Sarcastic perhaps but to clear my > plate, > > > it > > > > was > > > > > > not > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > original! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think about that, seriously, based on your personal > > > > reality -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > please --rather than hitting the reply button > and ...! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let us begin a new thread and really lay down our > > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > the light that we glibly talk about in the > astrological > > > > > > framework > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > reference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other than the SUN the only source of light that we > > know > > > > and > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > defend and moon its biggest reflector. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But let us go beyond that and discuss what this > > > > > > > astrological 'light' > > > > > > > > really is about in day to day astrology. We all can > go > > > and > > > > > > read > > > > > > > > classics, thanks to many giants on whose shoulders > we > > > have > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > allowed to stand and see far out! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > DIVINITY > > > AND > > > > > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > > > of > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for > > > ridiculously > > > > > > low rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY > AND > > > > > RELISH > > > > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > > > of > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC- > to- > > > > Phone > > > > > > call rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY > AND > > > > RELISH > > > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology > > software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > > > of > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ > countries > > > for > > > > > just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > > > RELISH > > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology > software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > of > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ > countries > > > for > > > > just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 dear friends, The free world is not assumption and the pulls and pressures in terms of g'force working with velocity and g'pull under force too are operating without any limitations. these circumstances does throw light and reflect on karmas.if these karmas inflict emotion,pain and stress,the human being too pressurised to negative ways of life and indulges in improper and less disciplined life. otherwise free world enables him to aspire for equilibrium and stability and the pulls and pressure do not effect him and leads to matured state where in he utilises the conditions to add to positive life.the thought of escape route (only due to velocicity and g force) does not become a choice to adopt. In that free state he has clarity and knows to control and stabilise to chart his own means and methods and will be free from all attractions.he is not stiffled by conditions. this state of mind and thought enables him to choose life of respect and values and is never threatened. krishnan auromirra19 <nalini2818 wrote: [Om Namo Narayanaya] RRji, More often than not, the poor being is unaware of being shackled, so subtle is the bondage. Nor does it know that it is operating within a restricted ambit, it is happy to think that it is *free*. The thought of escape arises only when and if it realises the surreality of it all, the walls, the rope. Till then it is ignorantly, bissfully happy in its own 'free' world. My few thoughts Regards nalini [On Namah Shivaya Namah Mallikarjunaya] , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Rishi, > > You make a good point, but I would like to stretch the analogy a bit > more, to the side, if I may :-) > It is true that a certain escape velocity would be required to escape > from the grativational pull (and would vary for each planet because > the gravitational force would be different, I believe). One may > extend the metaphor and see the similarity between escape from > gravity and escape from the in-the-box or thinking in the groove > (skilfully trying to avoid the emotion-charged 'T' and "O" words!). > > However, in order to escape G, one does not have to leave the earth > and antigravity practice simulators come to mind where astronauts > practice. One can remain within the BIG KARMA while escaping little > karma at least temporarily! > > I remember Mr. KN Rao once quoted Ramkrishna Parmahamsa who had > stated that human soul is like the goat tied to a pole with a rope > within a locked courtyard. The Walls are the big KARMA boundaries > (dridha, I believe it is called technically) and the rope is the > small karma and so called Free-will. Interesting analogy. > > However, the thing that came to my mind immediately was this: If the > goat was a human child (say 10 or 12 even -- much less than 15 say -- > I am sure he would be able to untie the rope around his neck and > climb the wall and escape. That is the difference between the > allegory of the goat when applied to humans! > > Hence there is more hope for humans through understanding and > remedies to overcome karma and boundaries and generally speaking "G"! > And by remedies I dont mean gemstones or easy escape routes alone! > > Does this make sense? > > RR > > , "rishi_2000in" > <rishi_2000in@> wrote: > > > > Does one reach the escape velocity ? > > Or just a velocity which breaks the sound barrier of thoughts and > > the conscious awareness. > > In such a case one is subjected to the laws and has to once again > > begin abinitio, the earlier inings there , being counted too but we > > are not aware of the scores. > > For each karma done,whether one wants or not, the fruit will be > > there. > > regards > > rishi > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Krishnan ji, > > > > > > Thanks! > > > The last sentence in your post is a keeper. Please allow me to > > > highlight it? > > > > > > <<otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning>> > > > > > > Hence, despite no hope for an escape, the little insect must > > continue > > > to write, here, there, everywhere because it is not the web that > > is > > > killing it but the fact that it decided to give up writing that > > > manual, "How to prevent Karma, at least the next time around!" > > > > > > The sages are gone, the more recent NON-SAGE writers are gone, > > even > > > more recent regular grihastha jyotishis and jyotish writers are > > gone! > > > Ripe fruit, keep falling daily, all the time and no one is > > surprised > > > anymore. > > > > > > But Jyotish miraculously lives on and even improves in some ways. > > The > > > very fact that the Spider is giving the insect a chance and time > > to > > > write the treatise is meaningful! The Spider is not hungry, it is > > > just doing its duty. The insect, on the other hand, is the one on > > > whom God's limelight is focused on!! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Sir, > > > > Risks being misunderstood and mis perceived need no > > > anticipation.it is always fecilitation of web based media and > > needs > > > more preservance. > > > > Karma is omni present in all actions good or > > bad.henceeternal.if > > > spider preys throgh the web and insect becomes victim as that > day > > it > > > was the turn of the insect,i feel these are all events that > happen > > > around to witness.the study of the creation is awesome and to > > account > > > for the happenings we lack really script.people venture to > > > define "maya" and may be iam trying to define what it is knowing > > > fully well is abstract.This interlocked and interconnected > > > dependance can also be preceived as dahrma to follow for the rest > > of > > > ardha,kama and moksha.After all stages in life that come as > result > > of > > > cycle from birth to death do not need also a volunteer.things go > > on > > > and on....we either have to get amused and feel helpless or break > > > boundaries to violate and do something different.if this is what > > Maha > > > purush constitutes how ever rarely they dawn and happen.we need > to > > > embold ourselves to do differently and bow every day to give you > > that > > > element to say you would like to different from > > > > others.otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning > > > > krishnan > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Krishnanji, > > > > > > > > Responding to your posting in the thread but not necessarily > > > > responding to your last message alone or even other messages > but > > > just > > > > addressing a thought-core that I am perceiving through my > biased > > > > human perception! > > > > > > > > People describe and discuss karma and describe divinity or even > > > God. > > > > Or try to anyway. > > > > I am not criticising anyone because regardless of what spirit > or > > > vein > > > > something is written, by me, or anyone for that matter risks > > being > > > > misunderstood and misperceived etc. > > > > > > > > So let me just say it, as is my nature :-) > > > > > > > > Three images loom in front of my mind's eye: > > > > > > > > A small child raised by loving parents trying to define and > > > describe > > > > and write an essay on its Parents. > > > > > > > > The same child now a teenager, doing the same > > > > > > > > The child, now a parent himself, describing his parent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The human being trying to describe God at different stages in > > his > > > or > > > > her life! > > > > > > > > Another more fearsome image also looms in front of my mind's > eye. > > > > > > > > A tiny insect caught in the Spider's web trying to write a > > treatise > > > > on the escape route! > > > > > > > > A little sign near the web reads, "Karma" > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > This thread crux for wiping out past debts always keep > > > surfacing > > > > for the reason"as we are caught in the mesh of past and present" > > > > > If 'paropakaram is parama dharmam'we must find volunteers > to > > do > > > > good selflessly.we know sages, seers and mahapurushas be it > Lord > > > > jesus Christ,Shri Shrdi Saibaba or even Satya Saibaba led the > > way > > > to > > > > establish the fact that wiping out tears from torn faces and > > show > > > > them the way to lead life of righteousness was their concern.In > > the > > > > process what they have gained or lost is beyond our > > comprehension > > > for > > > > the present.one thing is sure to the world that they christened > > > > as "messengers of god"..people found solace in their preachings > > and > > > > followers were blind enough to accept the path suggested by > them > > to > > > > find merit and adopt the life.Also we are not aware of their > > karmic > > > > results in the process.one thing evident that merits for future > > > > guidance is""paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". doing > > good > > > > to others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this is > > the > > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the suffering"if > > this > > > > logic is meant for improving one's own account > > > > > through these means and dedicate for the cause of 'manava > > sevaye > > > > madhava seva'and alleviate the sufferings of the some atleast > > there > > > > is some purpose to fulfil as a mission to do their bit as part > > of > > > > life.ultimately one has to contend'strange are the ways of > > God'to > > > > find swayam sevaks to deliver to the society in larger interest > > and > > > > involve in the struggle for good and bad.It must the same > > as'Dharma > > > > smasthapanaya sambhavami yuge yuge' > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > dear krishnan ji > > > > > > > > > > we discussed this subject in various threads earlier in this > > > group > > > > > but it is always good to discuss this important dimension > > again. > > > > > > > > > > in my understanding, the horoscope is like the statement of > > > karmic > > > > > account as on the date of birth in which all the deeds of his > > > > > previous births have been factored and an "indication" of > > future > > > is > > > > > presented. in share market, the footnote of any IPO > > says "past > > > > > performance is not an indicator of future success". > > > > > > > > > > generally till 15 years of ago, a native has no physical or > > > mental > > > > > capacity to change his karmic account. but afterwards as the > > > > native > > > > > gains knowledge, the karmic account can be changed as he wish > > > to. > > > > > by doing good deeds he can earn more merit or wipe off the > > sins. > > > > > similarly by doing wrong deeds he can earn more sins and wipe > > off > > > > > the merits. to decipher merit and sin, sage vyasa said > > > > > simply "paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". doing > good > > to > > > > > others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this is > > the > > > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the suffering > > and > > > > heal > > > > > them like jesus or shirdi saibaba did. even ramakrishna and > > > > > vivekananda helped crores of people achieve self > realisation. > > > all > > > > > these god realised people are god themselves and there is no > > > > > difference between god and these realised people. > > > > > > > > > > as mark once observed rightly, "your fuure is in your > hands". > > > you > > > > > are not a puppet with the strings in the hands of the nine > > > > planets. > > > > > you have the power to break free and move forward or > surrender > > to > > > > > the planets with inaction and have no growth at all. for a > > > > realised > > > > > person, planets are meaningless. for an ordinary layman > > enmeshed > > > > in > > > > > the maya of dependance on few individuals or few objects, > > planets > > > > > are gods. for a realised person, god is within and he is god. > > > > > > > > > > here comes the role of a guru to help one achieve this > > > realisation. > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and regards > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Shri Arjun ji, > > > > > > is it not that true that if we can get light and get > > > satisfied > > > > > with 'all are equated in getting the light of knowledge" > > > > > > removal of ignorance or darkness is a very very long > > journey > > > > > that involves not a single birth/janma.After all effort > should > > be > > > > to > > > > > keep making value additions in evry janma with consciouness > > and > > > > > (some)realsiation > > > > > > regards > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Members > > > > > > > > > > > > We have always emphasised the fact that classical works r > > the > > > > > main framework of Jyotishya anyday and we need to use its > > built > > > in > > > > > desha, kala, paristihhi rule in it to amend, adopt it for > the > > > > > times, country, culture, political, ecconimic sitiations we > > are > > > > > analysing. > > > > > > > > > > > > THE ORIGINAL QUESTION is not being covered but around it > a > > > lot > > > > > of discussion is going on. > > > > > > > > > > > > GURU in lagna a benefic, WILL HE REMOVE 100 AFLICTIONS Y/N > > > > > > > > > > > > this is true and no use digging into irrelevent logic, > > stasts. > > > > > > > > > > > > as for a given chart he may remove 100 aflictions there > > can > > > be > > > > > many more present. > > > > > > so why dispute the 100 which 100 is the question > > > > > > > > > > > > GARGA is the source of this rule, guru in Lagna removes > > 100 > > > > > aflictions, in 10th many more 100's > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT PLEASE REMEMBER THE 1ST PREAMBLE SLOKA ONE WRITES IN > > A > > > > > JANMA PATRI , very few computer horosope programs print this > > > > > > > > > > > > Janani Janma Soukhyanam > > > > > > Vardhini Kula Sampadaam > > > > > > Padavim purvapunyaanaam > > > > > > Likhyetha Janampatrikahnaam > > > > > > > > > > > > [there can be typos here] > > > > > > > > > > > > meaning the interpretations from a horoscope are compiled > > > form > > > > > the ommissions, commission of the family, which arise from > > its > > > > > status (morals), thus the native and his mothers fate r to > > be > > > > > forecasted. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhagavad Geetha also says one is born into a family of a > > > > > particulkar trait as his previous vasana or sanmskaram thus > > > people > > > > > with good, ethical, dharmic, humble people are born into > such > > > > > families and people with anger, greed, avarice, hatred, > > > contempt, > > > > > hunger, illhealth etc into similar recivers of such karmaic > > > > > balances only > > > > > > so all cant't have same 100 Doshas to be cleansed by Guru > > or > > > > for > > > > > that matter nay benefic. so there is bound to be various > > results > > > > > for different people born in the same Lagan that is 1/12 > > cases. > > > > > depending onther karma balance sheet > > > > > > a horoscope is the opening balance of Karma in this life. > > as > > > > > brough forward from past lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > Plus the other amsas, their lagnas also matter don't they? > > > > > > the other elements of a horoscope, like > > > shadbala,ashtakkavarga > > > > > and above all the time-dasa for such thing to happen a > > > protection > > > > > or insurance that Guru's 100 waiver gives. > > > > > > > > > > > > so a balanced and intelligent interpretation is called > for > > no > > > > > outright acceptence or rejection. this problem comes as we > > are > > > > > trying to fit in a whole picture from a single point. when > it > > is > > > > > only part of the whole picture thw whole picture msut be > > studied. > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope there is some light in this effort.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: dear RR ji > > > > > > > > > > > > before discussing light on astrological perspective, i > > > briefly > > > > > touch > > > > > > what this light is all about. > > > > > > > > > > > > our country "bharat" itself is full of light. bhasi > > diptau > > > > > ratah > > > > > > bharata. compare this to meaningless America which > denote > > or > > > > > > connote nothing except the americans' darkness > (ignorance) > > to > > > > > > continue their country remaining named after the Italian > > > > Amerigo > > > > > > Vespucci who was WRONGLY credited with discovering that > > land. > > > > > > > > > > > > what you said is true that, in layman's ability what is > > there > > > > in > > > > > > mind is seen only by eyes. verily sun and moon are > > > attributed > > > > > to > > > > > > both eyes or loosely as day and night. a realised person > > > > > closing > > > > > > the eyes can see with his mind with his "divya drishti" > > and > > > all > > > > > > sages and saints used to have this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Old Testament, Genesis says that the entire creation > began > > > with > > > > > a > > > > > > light. it also says man is god's own image. when we > > > say "lead > > > > > us > > > > > > to light from darkness" and we want more light or > > knowledge > > > > > > like "tamaso ma yotir gamaya" we mean dispelling > > > our "ignorance > > > > > or > > > > > > darkness" with the "light or knoweldge". a realised > > person > > > > sees > > > > > the > > > > > > light or god within and an ignorant person remains in > dark > > > and > > > > > does > > > > > > not see god. > > > > > > > > > > > > it is written in upanishads that to know that light (god) > > and > > > > > reach > > > > > > that light, one shall approach a Guru (jupiter) who has > > > > realised > > > > > > god. simply put, to remove our darkness or ignorance we > > seek > > > > > light > > > > > > or knowledge for which we approach the guru or jupiter. > > > > > > > > > > > > in this context, the light of jupiter or knowledge helps > > the > > > > > native > > > > > > realise the god. be it the jupiter (guru of devatas) or > > the > > > > > planet > > > > > > jupiter or the human guru, and remove our ignorance of > > > > darkness. > > > > > > > > > > > > may jupiter's light shine on all. > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The proof that light exists in the astropragmatic (used > > to > > > be > > > > > > called > > > > > > > astro-LOGICAL) framework is simple. It is what can > > actually > > > > be > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > because without light one cannot see! Right? What one > > can > > > see > > > > > is > > > > > > > where light is at! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some have extended that to say: What the mind knows, > > only > > > > that > > > > > the > > > > > > > eyes can see! Sarcastic perhaps but to clear my plate, > > it > > > was > > > > > not > > > > > > my > > > > > > > original! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think about that, seriously, based on your personal > > > reality -- > > > > > > > > > > > please --rather than hitting the reply button and ...! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let us begin a new thread and really lay down our > > > > > understanding > > > > > > about > > > > > > > the light that we glibly talk about in the astrological > > > > > framework > > > > > > of > > > > > > > reference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other than the SUN the only source of light that we > know > > > and > > > > > can > > > > > > > defend and moon its biggest reflector. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But let us go beyond that and discuss what this > > > > > > astrological 'light' > > > > > > > really is about in day to day astrology. We all can go > > and > > > > > read > > > > > > > classics, thanks to many giants on whose shoulders we > > have > > > > > been > > > > > > > allowed to stand and see far out! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY > > AND > > > > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > > of > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for > > ridiculously > > > > > low rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > > > > RELISH > > > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > > of > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC- to- > > > Phone > > > > > call rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > > > RELISH > > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology > software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > > of > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries > > for > > > > just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > > RELISH > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries > > for > > > just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software Visit your group "" on the web. Messenger with Voice. 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Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 [Om Namo Narayanaya] RRji, I would throw my weight with the protracted ingenious brilliance of the insect in having kept the spider amused enough to have forgotten all about gobbling it as prey. Nalini [Om Namah Shivaya Namah mallikarjunaya] --- In , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Dear Nalini, > > As always, you came through :-) with a fresh look at the situation. > Please take this as a compliment and not criticism (certainly not > personal!) but most of us are really blind persons trying to figure > out how the elephant is like and actually, unlike the fable of the > elephant and men from Hindustan (as I believe it is called!), most of > us do not even know for sure if it is an elephant or a big Spider! > Being blind from birth, most of us. > > But when someone suddenly comes into this 'blind party' [misery does > love company and it *is* a party! <I bet there would be five > insulting emails taking me to task and showing me my place -- in > response to that brash statement!> and claims or even PROCLAIMS that > they are giving the answer the final answer based on scriptures and > all then such statements must be responded to, questioned and > challenged. That is not liked on some forums (fora) but I refuse to > accept that position as even tenable. > > Simply put, we (all religions and cultures) have had scriptures and > sage sayings and even more elite and illuminated statements, straight > from the MOUTH of GOD, not for ten or hundred but THOUSANDS of years > and according to a very sensational work in channeled literature > (revealed truth essentially, though certain religions may not accept > same for it did not come from within their courtyard) the TRUTH has > been reinfused several times, many times before what we consider and > accept our times, the ONLY times that creation has existed. Please > remember this is just what has been written and not necessarily > endorsed by the author of this message or forum administration! > > Pardon my defensiveness after the recent skid-row I survived, but > the 'tiger balm' is really helping ;-) > > I like to draw all my inspiration from the pragmatic experience and > wisdom and day-to-day reality. When I see that reflected and > *CORRELATED* with something astral or astrological/symbological it > confirms a wonderful phrase that touches my soul: AS ABOVE SO BELOW! > > It has been pointed out by kind souls that this statement is not > kosher and not true, but is that enough? I mean I admire the staying > power of the insect next to me on this KARMA-WEB, caught way before > me in the web of karma and still alive, but should the credit go to > him or the kindness of the SPIDER? > > RR > > > , "auromirra19" > <nalini2818@> wrote: > > > > [Om Namo Narayanaya] > > RRji, > > More often than not, the poor being is unaware of being shackled, > so > > subtle is the bondage. Nor does it know that it is operating within > > a restricted ambit, it is happy to think that it is *free*. The > > thought of escape arises only when and if it realises the > surreality > > of it all, the walls, the rope. Till then it is ignorantly, > > bissfully happy in its own 'free' world. > > My few thoughts > > Regards > > nalini > > [On Namah Shivaya Namah Mallikarjunaya] > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Rishi, > > > > > > You make a good point, but I would like to stretch the analogy a > > bit > > > more, to the side, if I may :-) > > > It is true that a certain escape velocity would be required to > > escape > > > from the grativational pull (and would vary for each planet > > because > > > the gravitational force would be different, I believe). One may > > > extend the metaphor and see the similarity between escape from > > > gravity and escape from the in-the-box or thinking in the groove > > > (skilfully trying to avoid the emotion-charged 'T' and "O" > words!). > > > > > > However, in order to escape G, one does not have to leave the > > earth > > > and antigravity practice simulators come to mind where astronauts > > > practice. One can remain within the BIG KARMA while escaping > > little > > > karma at least temporarily! > > > > > > I remember Mr. KN Rao once quoted Ramkrishna Parmahamsa who had > > > stated that human soul is like the goat tied to a pole with a > rope > > > within a locked courtyard. The Walls are the big KARMA boundaries > > > (dridha, I believe it is called technically) and the rope is the > > > small karma and so called Free-will. Interesting analogy. > > > > > > However, the thing that came to my mind immediately was this: If > > the > > > goat was a human child (say 10 or 12 even -- much less than 15 > > say -- > > > I am sure he would be able to untie the rope around his neck and > > > climb the wall and escape. That is the difference between the > > > allegory of the goat when applied to humans! > > > > > > Hence there is more hope for humans through understanding and > > > remedies to overcome karma and boundaries and generally > > speaking "G"! > > > And by remedies I dont mean gemstones or easy escape routes alone! > > > > > > Does this make sense? > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , "rishi_2000in" > > > <rishi_2000in@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Does one reach the escape velocity ? > > > > Or just a velocity which breaks the sound barrier of thoughts > > and > > > > the conscious awareness. > > > > In such a case one is subjected to the laws and has to once > > again > > > > begin abinitio, the earlier inings there , being counted too > but > > we > > > > are not aware of the scores. > > > > For each karma done,whether one wants or not, the fruit will be > > > > there. > > > > regards > > > > rishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Krishnan ji, > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > The last sentence in your post is a keeper. Please allow me > to > > > > > highlight it? > > > > > > > > > > <<otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning>> > > > > > > > > > > Hence, despite no hope for an escape, the little insect must > > > > continue > > > > > to write, here, there, everywhere because it is not the web > > that > > > > is > > > > > killing it but the fact that it decided to give up writing > > that > > > > > manual, "How to prevent Karma, at least the next time around!" > > > > > > > > > > The sages are gone, the more recent NON-SAGE writers are > gone, > > > > even > > > > > more recent regular grihastha jyotishis and jyotish writers > > are > > > > gone! > > > > > Ripe fruit, keep falling daily, all the time and no one is > > > > surprised > > > > > anymore. > > > > > > > > > > But Jyotish miraculously lives on and even improves in some > > ways. > > > > The > > > > > very fact that the Spider is giving the insect a chance and > > time > > > > to > > > > > write the treatise is meaningful! The Spider is not hungry, > it > > is > > > > > just doing its duty. The insect, on the other hand, is the > one > > on > > > > > whom God's limelight is focused on!! > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, > > > > > > Risks being misunderstood and mis perceived need no > > > > > anticipation.it is always fecilitation of web based media and > > > > needs > > > > > more preservance. > > > > > > Karma is omni present in all actions good or > > > > bad.henceeternal.if > > > > > spider preys throgh the web and insect becomes victim as > that > > > day > > > > it > > > > > was the turn of the insect,i feel these are all events that > > > happen > > > > > around to witness.the study of the creation is awesome and to > > > > account > > > > > for the happenings we lack really script.people venture to > > > > > define "maya" and may be iam trying to define what it is > > knowing > > > > > fully well is abstract.This interlocked and interconnected > > > > > dependance can also be preceived as dahrma to follow for the > > rest > > > > of > > > > > ardha,kama and moksha.After all stages in life that come as > > > result > > > > of > > > > > cycle from birth to death do not need also a volunteer.things > > go > > > > on > > > > > and on....we either have to get amused and feel helpless or > > break > > > > > boundaries to violate and do something different.if this is > > what > > > > Maha > > > > > purush constitutes how ever rarely they dawn and happen.we > > need > > > to > > > > > embold ourselves to do differently and bow every day to give > > you > > > > that > > > > > element to say you would like to different from > > > > > > others.otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Krishnanji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Responding to your posting in the thread but not > necessarily > > > > > > responding to your last message alone or even other > messages > > > but > > > > > just > > > > > > addressing a thought-core that I am perceiving through my > > > biased > > > > > > human perception! > > > > > > > > > > > > People describe and discuss karma and describe divinity or > > even > > > > > God. > > > > > > Or try to anyway. > > > > > > I am not criticising anyone because regardless of what > > spirit > > > or > > > > > vein > > > > > > something is written, by me, or anyone for that matter > risks > > > > being > > > > > > misunderstood and misperceived etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > So let me just say it, as is my nature :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Three images loom in front of my mind's eye: > > > > > > > > > > > > A small child raised by loving parents trying to define and > > > > > describe > > > > > > and write an essay on its Parents. > > > > > > > > > > > > The same child now a teenager, doing the same > > > > > > > > > > > > The child, now a parent himself, describing his parent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The human being trying to describe God at different stages > > in > > > > his > > > > > or > > > > > > her life! > > > > > > > > > > > > Another more fearsome image also looms in front of my > mind's > > > eye. > > > > > > > > > > > > A tiny insect caught in the Spider's web trying to write a > > > > treatise > > > > > > on the escape route! > > > > > > > > > > > > A little sign near the web reads, "Karma" > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > > > This thread crux for wiping out past debts always keep > > > > > surfacing > > > > > > for the reason"as we are caught in the mesh of past and > > present" > > > > > > > If 'paropakaram is parama dharmam'we must find > > volunteers > > > to > > > > do > > > > > > good selflessly.we know sages, seers and mahapurushas be it > > > Lord > > > > > > jesus Christ,Shri Shrdi Saibaba or even Satya Saibaba led > > the > > > > way > > > > > to > > > > > > establish the fact that wiping out tears from torn faces > and > > > > show > > > > > > them the way to lead life of righteousness was their > > concern.In > > > > the > > > > > > process what they have gained or lost is beyond our > > > > comprehension > > > > > for > > > > > > the present.one thing is sure to the world that they > > christened > > > > > > as "messengers of god"..people found solace in their > > preachings > > > > and > > > > > > followers were blind enough to accept the path suggested by > > > them > > > > to > > > > > > find merit and adopt the life.Also we are not aware of > their > > > > karmic > > > > > > results in the process.one thing evident that merits for > > future > > > > > > guidance is""paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". > > doing > > > > good > > > > > > to others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this > > is > > > > the > > > > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the > > suffering"if > > > > this > > > > > > logic is meant for improving one's own account > > > > > > > through these means and dedicate for the cause > of 'manava > > > > sevaye > > > > > > madhava seva'and alleviate the sufferings of the some > > atleast > > > > there > > > > > > is some purpose to fulfil as a mission to do their bit as > > part > > > > of > > > > > > life.ultimately one has to contend'strange are the ways of > > > > God'to > > > > > > find swayam sevaks to deliver to the society in larger > > interest > > > > and > > > > > > involve in the struggle for good and bad.It must the same > > > > as'Dharma > > > > > > smasthapanaya sambhavami yuge yuge' > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > dear krishnan ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we discussed this subject in various threads earlier in > > this > > > > > group > > > > > > > but it is always good to discuss this important dimension > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in my understanding, the horoscope is like the statement > > of > > > > > karmic > > > > > > > account as on the date of birth in which all the deeds of > > his > > > > > > > previous births have been factored and an "indication" of > > > > future > > > > > is > > > > > > > presented. in share market, the footnote of any IPO > > > > says "past > > > > > > > performance is not an indicator of future success". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > generally till 15 years of ago, a native has no physical > > or > > > > > mental > > > > > > > capacity to change his karmic account. but afterwards as > > the > > > > > > native > > > > > > > gains knowledge, the karmic account can be changed as he > > wish > > > > > to. > > > > > > > by doing good deeds he can earn more merit or wipe off > the > > > > sins. > > > > > > > similarly by doing wrong deeds he can earn more sins and > > wipe > > > > off > > > > > > > the merits. to decipher merit and sin, sage vyasa said > > > > > > > simply "paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". doing > > > good > > > > to > > > > > > > others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. this > > is > > > > the > > > > > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the > > suffering > > > > and > > > > > > heal > > > > > > > them like jesus or shirdi saibaba did. even ramakrishna > > and > > > > > > > vivekananda helped crores of people achieve self > > > realisation. > > > > > all > > > > > > > these god realised people are god themselves and there is > > no > > > > > > > difference between god and these realised people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as mark once observed rightly, "your fuure is in your > > > hands". > > > > > you > > > > > > > are not a puppet with the strings in the hands of the > nine > > > > > > planets. > > > > > > > you have the power to break free and move forward or > > > surrender > > > > to > > > > > > > the planets with inaction and have no growth at all. for > > a > > > > > > realised > > > > > > > person, planets are meaningless. for an ordinary layman > > > > enmeshed > > > > > > in > > > > > > > the maya of dependance on few individuals or few objects, > > > > planets > > > > > > > are gods. for a realised person, god is within and he is > > god. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > here comes the role of a guru to help one achieve this > > > > > realisation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and regards > > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Shri Arjun ji, > > > > > > > > is it not that true that if we can get light and get > > > > > satisfied > > > > > > > with 'all are equated in getting the light of knowledge" > > > > > > > > removal of ignorance or darkness is a very very long > > > > journey > > > > > > > that involves not a single birth/janma.After all effort > > > should > > > > be > > > > > > to > > > > > > > keep making value additions in evry janma with > > consciouness > > > > and > > > > > > > (some)realsiation > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Members > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have always emphasised the fact that classical > > works r > > > > the > > > > > > > main framework of Jyotishya anyday and we need to use > its > > > > built > > > > > in > > > > > > > desha, kala, paristihhi rule in it to amend, adopt it > for > > > the > > > > > > > times, country, culture, political, ecconimic sitiations > > we > > > > are > > > > > > > analysing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THE ORIGINAL QUESTION is not being covered but around > > it > > > a > > > > > lot > > > > > > > of discussion is going on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GURU in lagna a benefic, WILL HE REMOVE 100 > AFLICTIONS > > Y/N > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is true and no use digging into irrelevent > logic, > > > > stasts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as for a given chart he may remove 100 aflictions > > there > > > > can > > > > > be > > > > > > > many more present. > > > > > > > > so why dispute the 100 which 100 is the question > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GARGA is the source of this rule, guru in Lagna > > removes > > > > 100 > > > > > > > aflictions, in 10th many more 100's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT PLEASE REMEMBER THE 1ST PREAMBLE SLOKA ONE WRITES > > IN > > > > A > > > > > > > JANMA PATRI , very few computer horosope programs print > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Janani Janma Soukhyanam > > > > > > > > Vardhini Kula Sampadaam > > > > > > > > Padavim purvapunyaanaam > > > > > > > > Likhyetha Janampatrikahnaam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [there can be typos here] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > meaning the interpretations from a horoscope are > > compiled > > > > > form > > > > > > > the ommissions, commission of the family, which arise > > from > > > > its > > > > > > > status (morals), thus the native and his mothers fate r > > to > > > > be > > > > > > > forecasted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhagavad Geetha also says one is born into a family > of > > a > > > > > > > particulkar trait as his previous vasana or sanmskaram > > thus > > > > > people > > > > > > > with good, ethical, dharmic, humble people are born into > > > such > > > > > > > families and people with anger, greed, avarice, hatred, > > > > > contempt, > > > > > > > hunger, illhealth etc into similar recivers of such > > karmaic > > > > > > > balances only > > > > > > > > so all cant't have same 100 Doshas to be cleansed by > > Guru > > > > or > > > > > > for > > > > > > > that matter nay benefic. so there is bound to be various > > > > results > > > > > > > for different people born in the same Lagan that is 1/12 > > > > cases. > > > > > > > depending onther karma balance sheet > > > > > > > > a horoscope is the opening balance of Karma in this > > life. > > > > as > > > > > > > brough forward from past lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plus the other amsas, their lagnas also matter don't > > they? > > > > > > > > the other elements of a horoscope, like > > > > > shadbala,ashtakkavarga > > > > > > > and above all the time-dasa for such thing to happen a > > > > > protection > > > > > > > or insurance that Guru's 100 waiver gives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so a balanced and intelligent interpretation is > called > > > for > > > > no > > > > > > > outright acceptence or rejection. this problem comes as > > we > > > > are > > > > > > > trying to fit in a whole picture from a single point. > > when > > > it > > > > is > > > > > > > only part of the whole picture thw whole picture msut be > > > > studied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope there is some light in this effort.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: dear > RR > > ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > before discussing light on astrological perspective, > i > > > > > briefly > > > > > > > touch > > > > > > > > what this light is all about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our country "bharat" itself is full of light. bhasi > > > > diptau > > > > > > > ratah > > > > > > > > bharata. compare this to meaningless America which > > > denote > > > > or > > > > > > > > connote nothing except the americans' darkness > > > (ignorance) > > > > to > > > > > > > > continue their country remaining named after the > > Italian > > > > > > Amerigo > > > > > > > > Vespucci who was WRONGLY credited with discovering > > that > > > > land. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what you said is true that, in layman's ability what > > is > > > > there > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > mind is seen only by eyes. verily sun and moon are > > > > > attributed > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > both eyes or loosely as day and night. a realised > > person > > > > > > > closing > > > > > > > > the eyes can see with his mind with his "divya > > drishti" > > > > and > > > > > all > > > > > > > > sages and saints used to have this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old Testament, Genesis says that the entire creation > > > began > > > > > with > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > light. it also says man is god's own image. when we > > > > > say "lead > > > > > > > us > > > > > > > > to light from darkness" and we want more light or > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > like "tamaso ma yotir gamaya" we mean dispelling > > > > > our "ignorance > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > darkness" with the "light or knoweldge". a realised > > > > person > > > > > > sees > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > light or god within and an ignorant person remains in > > > dark > > > > > and > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > not see god. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is written in upanishads that to know that light > > (god) > > > > and > > > > > > > reach > > > > > > > > that light, one shall approach a Guru (jupiter) who > > has > > > > > > realised > > > > > > > > god. simply put, to remove our darkness or ignorance > > we > > > > seek > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > or knowledge for which we approach the guru or > jupiter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in this context, the light of jupiter or knowledge > > helps > > > > the > > > > > > > native > > > > > > > > realise the god. be it the jupiter (guru of devatas) > > or > > > > the > > > > > > > planet > > > > > > > > jupiter or the human guru, and remove our ignorance > > of > > > > > > darkness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > may jupiter's light shine on all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal > > pages" > > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The proof that light exists in the astropragmatic > > (used > > > > to > > > > > be > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > astro-LOGICAL) framework is simple. It is what can > > > > actually > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > because without light one cannot see! Right? What > > one > > > > can > > > > > see > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > where light is at! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some have extended that to say: What the mind > knows, > > > > only > > > > > > that > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > eyes can see! Sarcastic perhaps but to clear my > > plate, > > > > it > > > > > was > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > original! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think about that, seriously, based on your personal > > > > > reality -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > please --rather than hitting the reply button > > and ...! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let us begin a new thread and really lay down our > > > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > the light that we glibly talk about in the > > astrological > > > > > > > framework > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > reference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other than the SUN the only source of light that we > > > know > > > > > and > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > defend and moon its biggest reflector. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But let us go beyond that and discuss what this > > > > > > > > astrological 'light' > > > > > > > > > really is about in day to day astrology. We all can > > go > > > > and > > > > > > > read > > > > > > > > > classics, thanks to many giants on whose shoulders > > we > > > > have > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > allowed to stand and see far out! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > DIVINITY > > > > AND > > > > > > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > Terms > > > > of > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for > > > > ridiculously > > > > > > > low rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY > > AND > > > > > > RELISH > > > > > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > Terms > > > > of > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How low will we go? 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Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Careful sister! That dangerously smacks of 'EGO'. You could be taken to task by the panchayat (even though not quite five!) ;-) RR , "auromirra19" <nalini2818 wrote: > > [Om Namo Narayanaya] > RRji, > I would throw my weight with the protracted ingenious brilliance of > the insect in having kept the spider amused enough to have forgotten > all about gobbling it as prey. > Nalini > [Om Namah Shivaya Namah mallikarjunaya] --- In > , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Nalini, > > > > As always, you came through :-) with a fresh look at the > situation. > > Please take this as a compliment and not criticism (certainly not > > personal!) but most of us are really blind persons trying to > figure > > out how the elephant is like and actually, unlike the fable of the > > elephant and men from Hindustan (as I believe it is called!), most > of > > us do not even know for sure if it is an elephant or a big Spider! > > Being blind from birth, most of us. > > > > But when someone suddenly comes into this 'blind party' [misery > does > > love company and it *is* a party! <I bet there would be five > > insulting emails taking me to task and showing me my place -- in > > response to that brash statement!> and claims or even PROCLAIMS > that > > they are giving the answer the final answer based on scriptures > and > > all then such statements must be responded to, questioned and > > challenged. That is not liked on some forums (fora) but I refuse > to > > accept that position as even tenable. > > > > Simply put, we (all religions and cultures) have had scriptures > and > > sage sayings and even more elite and illuminated statements, > straight > > from the MOUTH of GOD, not for ten or hundred but THOUSANDS of > years > > and according to a very sensational work in channeled literature > > (revealed truth essentially, though certain religions may not > accept > > same for it did not come from within their courtyard) the TRUTH > has > > been reinfused several times, many times before what we consider > and > > accept our times, the ONLY times that creation has existed. Please > > remember this is just what has been written and not necessarily > > endorsed by the author of this message or forum administration! > > > > Pardon my defensiveness after the recent skid-row I survived, but > > the 'tiger balm' is really helping ;-) > > > > I like to draw all my inspiration from the pragmatic experience > and > > wisdom and day-to-day reality. When I see that reflected and > > *CORRELATED* with something astral or astrological/symbological it > > confirms a wonderful phrase that touches my soul: AS ABOVE SO > BELOW! > > > > It has been pointed out by kind souls that this statement is not > > kosher and not true, but is that enough? I mean I admire the > staying > > power of the insect next to me on this KARMA-WEB, caught way > before > > me in the web of karma and still alive, but should the credit go > to > > him or the kindness of the SPIDER? > > > > RR > > > > > > , "auromirra19" > > <nalini2818@> wrote: > > > > > > [Om Namo Narayanaya] > > > RRji, > > > More often than not, the poor being is unaware of being > shackled, > > so > > > subtle is the bondage. Nor does it know that it is operating > within > > > a restricted ambit, it is happy to think that it is *free*. The > > > thought of escape arises only when and if it realises the > > surreality > > > of it all, the walls, the rope. Till then it is ignorantly, > > > bissfully happy in its own 'free' world. > > > My few thoughts > > > Regards > > > nalini > > > [On Namah Shivaya Namah Mallikarjunaya] > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Rishi, > > > > > > > > You make a good point, but I would like to stretch the analogy > a > > > bit > > > > more, to the side, if I may :-) > > > > It is true that a certain escape velocity would be required to > > > escape > > > > from the grativational pull (and would vary for each planet > > > because > > > > the gravitational force would be different, I believe). One > may > > > > extend the metaphor and see the similarity between escape from > > > > gravity and escape from the in-the-box or thinking in the > groove > > > > (skilfully trying to avoid the emotion-charged 'T' and "O" > > words!). > > > > > > > > However, in order to escape G, one does not have to leave the > > > earth > > > > and antigravity practice simulators come to mind where > astronauts > > > > practice. One can remain within the BIG KARMA while escaping > > > little > > > > karma at least temporarily! > > > > > > > > I remember Mr. KN Rao once quoted Ramkrishna Parmahamsa who > had > > > > stated that human soul is like the goat tied to a pole with a > > rope > > > > within a locked courtyard. The Walls are the big KARMA > boundaries > > > > (dridha, I believe it is called technically) and the rope is > the > > > > small karma and so called Free-will. Interesting analogy. > > > > > > > > However, the thing that came to my mind immediately was this: > If > > > the > > > > goat was a human child (say 10 or 12 even -- much less than 15 > > > say -- > > > > I am sure he would be able to untie the rope around his neck > and > > > > climb the wall and escape. That is the difference between the > > > > allegory of the goat when applied to humans! > > > > > > > > Hence there is more hope for humans through understanding and > > > > remedies to overcome karma and boundaries and generally > > > speaking "G"! > > > > And by remedies I dont mean gemstones or easy escape routes > alone! > > > > > > > > Does this make sense? > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "rishi_2000in" > > > > <rishi_2000in@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Does one reach the escape velocity ? > > > > > Or just a velocity which breaks the sound barrier of > thoughts > > > and > > > > > the conscious awareness. > > > > > In such a case one is subjected to the laws and has to once > > > again > > > > > begin abinitio, the earlier inings there , being counted too > > but > > > we > > > > > are not aware of the scores. > > > > > For each karma done,whether one wants or not, the fruit will > be > > > > > there. > > > > > regards > > > > > rishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Krishnan ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > The last sentence in your post is a keeper. Please allow > me > > to > > > > > > highlight it? > > > > > > > > > > > > <<otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, despite no hope for an escape, the little insect > must > > > > > continue > > > > > > to write, here, there, everywhere because it is not the > web > > > that > > > > > is > > > > > > killing it but the fact that it decided to give up writing > > > that > > > > > > manual, "How to prevent Karma, at least the next time > around!" > > > > > > > > > > > > The sages are gone, the more recent NON-SAGE writers are > > gone, > > > > > even > > > > > > more recent regular grihastha jyotishis and jyotish > writers > > > are > > > > > gone! > > > > > > Ripe fruit, keep falling daily, all the time and no one is > > > > > surprised > > > > > > anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > But Jyotish miraculously lives on and even improves in > some > > > ways. > > > > > The > > > > > > very fact that the Spider is giving the insect a chance > and > > > time > > > > > to > > > > > > write the treatise is meaningful! The Spider is not > hungry, > > it > > > is > > > > > > just doing its duty. The insect, on the other hand, is the > > one > > > on > > > > > > whom God's limelight is focused on!! > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, > > > > > > > Risks being misunderstood and mis perceived need no > > > > > > anticipation.it is always fecilitation of web based media > and > > > > > needs > > > > > > more preservance. > > > > > > > Karma is omni present in all actions good or > > > > > bad.henceeternal.if > > > > > > spider preys throgh the web and insect becomes victim as > > that > > > > day > > > > > it > > > > > > was the turn of the insect,i feel these are all events > that > > > > happen > > > > > > around to witness.the study of the creation is awesome and > to > > > > > account > > > > > > for the happenings we lack really script.people venture to > > > > > > define "maya" and may be iam trying to define what it is > > > knowing > > > > > > fully well is abstract.This interlocked and > interconnected > > > > > > dependance can also be preceived as dahrma to follow for > the > > > rest > > > > > of > > > > > > ardha,kama and moksha.After all stages in life that come > as > > > > result > > > > > of > > > > > > cycle from birth to death do not need also a > volunteer.things > > > go > > > > > on > > > > > > and on....we either have to get amused and feel helpless > or > > > break > > > > > > boundaries to violate and do something different.if this > is > > > what > > > > > Maha > > > > > > purush constitutes how ever rarely they dawn and happen.we > > > need > > > > to > > > > > > embold ourselves to do differently and bow every day to > give > > > you > > > > > that > > > > > > element to say you would like to different from > > > > > > > others.otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > Krishnanji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Responding to your posting in the thread but not > > necessarily > > > > > > > responding to your last message alone or even other > > messages > > > > but > > > > > > just > > > > > > > addressing a thought-core that I am perceiving through > my > > > > biased > > > > > > > human perception! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People describe and discuss karma and describe divinity > or > > > even > > > > > > God. > > > > > > > Or try to anyway. > > > > > > > I am not criticising anyone because regardless of what > > > spirit > > > > or > > > > > > vein > > > > > > > something is written, by me, or anyone for that matter > > risks > > > > > being > > > > > > > misunderstood and misperceived etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So let me just say it, as is my nature :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Three images loom in front of my mind's eye: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A small child raised by loving parents trying to define > and > > > > > > describe > > > > > > > and write an essay on its Parents. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The same child now a teenager, doing the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The child, now a parent himself, describing his parent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The human being trying to describe God at different > stages > > > in > > > > > his > > > > > > or > > > > > > > her life! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another more fearsome image also looms in front of my > > mind's > > > > eye. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A tiny insect caught in the Spider's web trying to write > a > > > > > treatise > > > > > > > on the escape route! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A little sign near the web reads, "Karma" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > > > > This thread crux for wiping out past debts always > keep > > > > > > surfacing > > > > > > > for the reason"as we are caught in the mesh of past and > > > present" > > > > > > > > If 'paropakaram is parama dharmam'we must find > > > volunteers > > > > to > > > > > do > > > > > > > good selflessly.we know sages, seers and mahapurushas be > it > > > > Lord > > > > > > > jesus Christ,Shri Shrdi Saibaba or even Satya Saibaba > led > > > the > > > > > way > > > > > > to > > > > > > > establish the fact that wiping out tears from torn faces > > and > > > > > show > > > > > > > them the way to lead life of righteousness was their > > > concern.In > > > > > the > > > > > > > process what they have gained or lost is beyond our > > > > > comprehension > > > > > > for > > > > > > > the present.one thing is sure to the world that they > > > christened > > > > > > > as "messengers of god"..people found solace in their > > > preachings > > > > > and > > > > > > > followers were blind enough to accept the path suggested > by > > > > them > > > > > to > > > > > > > find merit and adopt the life.Also we are not aware of > > their > > > > > karmic > > > > > > > results in the process.one thing evident that merits for > > > future > > > > > > > guidance is""paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". > > > doing > > > > > good > > > > > > > to others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. > this > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the > > > suffering"if > > > > > this > > > > > > > logic is meant for improving one's own account > > > > > > > > through these means and dedicate for the cause > > of 'manava > > > > > sevaye > > > > > > > madhava seva'and alleviate the sufferings of the some > > > atleast > > > > > there > > > > > > > is some purpose to fulfil as a mission to do their bit > as > > > part > > > > > of > > > > > > > life.ultimately one has to contend'strange are the ways > of > > > > > God'to > > > > > > > find swayam sevaks to deliver to the society in larger > > > interest > > > > > and > > > > > > > involve in the struggle for good and bad.It must the > same > > > > > as'Dharma > > > > > > > smasthapanaya sambhavami yuge yuge' > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > dear krishnan ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we discussed this subject in various threads earlier > in > > > this > > > > > > group > > > > > > > > but it is always good to discuss this important > dimension > > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in my understanding, the horoscope is like the > statement > > > of > > > > > > karmic > > > > > > > > account as on the date of birth in which all the deeds > of > > > his > > > > > > > > previous births have been factored and an "indication" > of > > > > > future > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > presented. in share market, the footnote of any IPO > > > > > says "past > > > > > > > > performance is not an indicator of future success". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > generally till 15 years of ago, a native has no > physical > > > or > > > > > > mental > > > > > > > > capacity to change his karmic account. but afterwards > as > > > the > > > > > > > native > > > > > > > > gains knowledge, the karmic account can be changed as > he > > > wish > > > > > > to. > > > > > > > > by doing good deeds he can earn more merit or wipe off > > the > > > > > sins. > > > > > > > > similarly by doing wrong deeds he can earn more sins > and > > > wipe > > > > > off > > > > > > > > the merits. to decipher merit and sin, sage vyasa > said > > > > > > > > simply "paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". > doing > > > > good > > > > > to > > > > > > > > others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. > this > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the > > > suffering > > > > > and > > > > > > > heal > > > > > > > > them like jesus or shirdi saibaba did. even > ramakrishna > > > and > > > > > > > > vivekananda helped crores of people achieve self > > > > realisation. > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > these god realised people are god themselves and there > is > > > no > > > > > > > > difference between god and these realised people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as mark once observed rightly, "your fuure is in your > > > > hands". > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > are not a puppet with the strings in the hands of the > > nine > > > > > > > planets. > > > > > > > > you have the power to break free and move forward or > > > > surrender > > > > > to > > > > > > > > the planets with inaction and have no growth at all. > for > > > a > > > > > > > realised > > > > > > > > person, planets are meaningless. for an ordinary > layman > > > > > enmeshed > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the maya of dependance on few individuals or few > objects, > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > are gods. for a realised person, god is within and he > is > > > god. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > here comes the role of a guru to help one achieve this > > > > > > realisation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and regards > > > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > krishnan > > > > > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Shri Arjun ji, > > > > > > > > > is it not that true that if we can get light and > get > > > > > > satisfied > > > > > > > > with 'all are equated in getting the light of > knowledge" > > > > > > > > > removal of ignorance or darkness is a very very > long > > > > > journey > > > > > > > > that involves not a single birth/janma.After all > effort > > > > should > > > > > be > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > keep making value additions in evry janma with > > > consciouness > > > > > and > > > > > > > > (some)realsiation > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Members > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have always emphasised the fact that classical > > > works r > > > > > the > > > > > > > > main framework of Jyotishya anyday and we need to use > > its > > > > > built > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > desha, kala, paristihhi rule in it to amend, adopt it > > for > > > > the > > > > > > > > times, country, culture, political, ecconimic > sitiations > > > we > > > > > are > > > > > > > > analysing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THE ORIGINAL QUESTION is not being covered but > around > > > it > > > > a > > > > > > lot > > > > > > > > of discussion is going on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GURU in lagna a benefic, WILL HE REMOVE 100 > > AFLICTIONS > > > Y/N > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is true and no use digging into irrelevent > > logic, > > > > > stasts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as for a given chart he may remove 100 aflictions > > > there > > > > > can > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > many more present. > > > > > > > > > so why dispute the 100 which 100 is the question > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GARGA is the source of this rule, guru in Lagna > > > removes > > > > > 100 > > > > > > > > aflictions, in 10th many more 100's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT PLEASE REMEMBER THE 1ST PREAMBLE SLOKA ONE > WRITES > > > IN > > > > > A > > > > > > > > JANMA PATRI , very few computer horosope programs > print > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Janani Janma Soukhyanam > > > > > > > > > Vardhini Kula Sampadaam > > > > > > > > > Padavim purvapunyaanaam > > > > > > > > > Likhyetha Janampatrikahnaam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [there can be typos here] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > meaning the interpretations from a horoscope are > > > compiled > > > > > > form > > > > > > > > the ommissions, commission of the family, which arise > > > from > > > > > its > > > > > > > > status (morals), thus the native and his mothers > fate r > > > to > > > > > be > > > > > > > > forecasted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhagavad Geetha also says one is born into a > family > > of > > > a > > > > > > > > particulkar trait as his previous vasana or > sanmskaram > > > thus > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > with good, ethical, dharmic, humble people are born > into > > > > such > > > > > > > > families and people with anger, greed, avarice, > hatred, > > > > > > contempt, > > > > > > > > hunger, illhealth etc into similar recivers of such > > > karmaic > > > > > > > > balances only > > > > > > > > > so all cant't have same 100 Doshas to be cleansed > by > > > Guru > > > > > or > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > that matter nay benefic. so there is bound to be > various > > > > > results > > > > > > > > for different people born in the same Lagan that is > 1/12 > > > > > cases. > > > > > > > > depending onther karma balance sheet > > > > > > > > > a horoscope is the opening balance of Karma in > this > > > life. > > > > > as > > > > > > > > brough forward from past lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plus the other amsas, their lagnas also matter > don't > > > they? > > > > > > > > > the other elements of a horoscope, like > > > > > > shadbala,ashtakkavarga > > > > > > > > and above all the time-dasa for such thing to happen > a > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > or insurance that Guru's 100 waiver gives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so a balanced and intelligent interpretation is > > called > > > > for > > > > > no > > > > > > > > outright acceptence or rejection. this problem comes > as > > > we > > > > > are > > > > > > > > trying to fit in a whole picture from a single point. > > > when > > > > it > > > > > is > > > > > > > > only part of the whole picture thw whole picture msut > be > > > > > studied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope there is some light in this effort.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > dear > > RR > > > ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > before discussing light on astrological > perspective, > > i > > > > > > briefly > > > > > > > > touch > > > > > > > > > what this light is all about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our country "bharat" itself is full of light. > bhasi > > > > > diptau > > > > > > > > ratah > > > > > > > > > bharata. compare this to meaningless America > which > > > > denote > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > connote nothing except the americans' darkness > > > > (ignorance) > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > continue their country remaining named after the > > > Italian > > > > > > > Amerigo > > > > > > > > > Vespucci who was WRONGLY credited with discovering > > > that > > > > > land. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what you said is true that, in layman's ability > what > > > is > > > > > there > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > mind is seen only by eyes. verily sun and moon > are > > > > > > attributed > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > both eyes or loosely as day and night. a realised > > > person > > > > > > > > closing > > > > > > > > > the eyes can see with his mind with his "divya > > > drishti" > > > > > and > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > sages and saints used to have this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old Testament, Genesis says that the entire > creation > > > > began > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > light. it also says man is god's own image. when > we > > > > > > say "lead > > > > > > > > us > > > > > > > > > to light from darkness" and we want more light or > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > > like "tamaso ma yotir gamaya" we mean dispelling > > > > > > our "ignorance > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > darkness" with the "light or knoweldge". a > realised > > > > > person > > > > > > > sees > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > light or god within and an ignorant person remains > in > > > > dark > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > not see god. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is written in upanishads that to know that > light > > > (god) > > > > > and > > > > > > > > reach > > > > > > > > > that light, one shall approach a Guru (jupiter) > who > > > has > > > > > > > realised > > > > > > > > > god. simply put, to remove our darkness or > ignorance > > > we > > > > > seek > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > > or knowledge for which we approach the guru or > > jupiter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in this context, the light of jupiter or knowledge > > > helps > > > > > the > > > > > > > > native > > > > > > > > > realise the god. be it the jupiter (guru of > devatas) > > > or > > > > > the > > > > > > > > planet > > > > > > > > > jupiter or the human guru, and remove our > ignorance > > > of > > > > > > > darkness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > may jupiter's light shine on all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal > > > pages" > > > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The proof that light exists in the > astropragmatic > > > (used > > > > > to > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > astro-LOGICAL) framework is simple. It is what > can > > > > > actually > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > because without light one cannot see! Right? > What > > > one > > > > > can > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > where light is at! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some have extended that to say: What the mind > > knows, > > > > > only > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > eyes can see! Sarcastic perhaps but to clear my > > > plate, > > > > > it > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > original! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think about that, seriously, based on your > personal > > > > > > reality -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > please --rather than hitting the reply button > > > and ...! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let us begin a new thread and really lay down > our > > > > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > the light that we glibly talk about in the > > > astrological > > > > > > > > framework > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > reference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other than the SUN the only source of light that > we > > > > know > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > defend and moon its biggest reflector. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But let us go beyond that and discuss what this > > > > > > > > > astrological 'light' > > > > > > > > > > really is about in day to day astrology. We all > can > > > go > > > > > and > > > > > > > > read > > > > > > > > > > classics, thanks to many giants on whose > shoulders > > > we > > > > > have > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > allowed to stand and see far out! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > DIVINITY > > > > > AND > > > > > > > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > Terms > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for > > > > > ridiculously > > > > > > > > low rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > DIVINITY > > > AND > > > > > > > RELISH > > > > > > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > Terms > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How low will we go? 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Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 [Om Namo Narayanaya] sir, I am sure sincere appreciation for the better endowed would not constitute EGO, and would not be construed so. But what is truly*real* in this world? It is like a 'maya sabha' , we mistake one thing for the other, run after the virtual for a while, realise, stop and reverse and continue in our quest.But that is how we learn, discern to distinguish between the surreal, subtle real and the truly Real. The constant tussle between the perceived and the real, arudha and lagna is the indvidual's quest for an *identity*, spiritual, social,intellectual. Nalini [Om Namah Shivaya Namah Mallikarjunaya] , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Careful sister! That dangerously smacks of 'EGO'. You could be taken > to task by the panchayat (even though not quite five!) ;-) > > RR > > , "auromirra19" > <nalini2818@> wrote: > > > > [Om Namo Narayanaya] > > RRji, > > I would throw my weight with the protracted ingenious brilliance of > > the insect in having kept the spider amused enough to have > forgotten > > all about gobbling it as prey. > > Nalini > > [Om Namah Shivaya Namah mallikarjunaya] --- In > > , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Nalini, > > > > > > As always, you came through :-) with a fresh look at the > > situation. > > > Please take this as a compliment and not criticism (certainly not > > > personal!) but most of us are really blind persons trying to > > figure > > > out how the elephant is like and actually, unlike the fable of > the > > > elephant and men from Hindustan (as I believe it is called!), > most > > of > > > us do not even know for sure if it is an elephant or a big > Spider! > > > Being blind from birth, most of us. > > > > > > But when someone suddenly comes into this 'blind party' [misery > > does > > > love company and it *is* a party! <I bet there would be five > > > insulting emails taking me to task and showing me my place -- in > > > response to that brash statement!> and claims or even PROCLAIMS > > that > > > they are giving the answer the final answer based on scriptures > > and > > > all then such statements must be responded to, questioned and > > > challenged. That is not liked on some forums (fora) but I refuse > > to > > > accept that position as even tenable. > > > > > > Simply put, we (all religions and cultures) have had scriptures > > and > > > sage sayings and even more elite and illuminated statements, > > straight > > > from the MOUTH of GOD, not for ten or hundred but THOUSANDS of > > years > > > and according to a very sensational work in channeled literature > > > (revealed truth essentially, though certain religions may not > > accept > > > same for it did not come from within their courtyard) the TRUTH > > has > > > been reinfused several times, many times before what we consider > > and > > > accept our times, the ONLY times that creation has existed. > Please > > > remember this is just what has been written and not necessarily > > > endorsed by the author of this message or forum administration! > > > > > > Pardon my defensiveness after the recent skid-row I survived, but > > > the 'tiger balm' is really helping ;-) > > > > > > I like to draw all my inspiration from the pragmatic experience > > and > > > wisdom and day-to-day reality. When I see that reflected and > > > *CORRELATED* with something astral or astrological/symbological > it > > > confirms a wonderful phrase that touches my soul: AS ABOVE SO > > BELOW! > > > > > > It has been pointed out by kind souls that this statement is not > > > kosher and not true, but is that enough? I mean I admire the > > staying > > > power of the insect next to me on this KARMA-WEB, caught way > > before > > > me in the web of karma and still alive, but should the credit go > > to > > > him or the kindness of the SPIDER? > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > , "auromirra19" > > > <nalini2818@> wrote: > > > > > > > > [Om Namo Narayanaya] > > > > RRji, > > > > More often than not, the poor being is unaware of being > > shackled, > > > so > > > > subtle is the bondage. Nor does it know that it is operating > > within > > > > a restricted ambit, it is happy to think that it is *free*. The > > > > thought of escape arises only when and if it realises the > > > surreality > > > > of it all, the walls, the rope. Till then it is ignorantly, > > > > bissfully happy in its own 'free' world. > > > > My few thoughts > > > > Regards > > > > nalini > > > > [On Namah Shivaya Namah Mallikarjunaya] > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Rishi, > > > > > > > > > > You make a good point, but I would like to stretch the > analogy > > a > > > > bit > > > > > more, to the side, if I may :-) > > > > > It is true that a certain escape velocity would be required > to > > > > escape > > > > > from the grativational pull (and would vary for each planet > > > > because > > > > > the gravitational force would be different, I believe). One > > may > > > > > extend the metaphor and see the similarity between escape > from > > > > > gravity and escape from the in-the-box or thinking in the > > groove > > > > > (skilfully trying to avoid the emotion-charged 'T' and "O" > > > words!). > > > > > > > > > > However, in order to escape G, one does not have to leave the > > > > earth > > > > > and antigravity practice simulators come to mind where > > astronauts > > > > > practice. One can remain within the BIG KARMA while escaping > > > > little > > > > > karma at least temporarily! > > > > > > > > > > I remember Mr. KN Rao once quoted Ramkrishna Parmahamsa who > > had > > > > > stated that human soul is like the goat tied to a pole with a > > > rope > > > > > within a locked courtyard. The Walls are the big KARMA > > boundaries > > > > > (dridha, I believe it is called technically) and the rope is > > the > > > > > small karma and so called Free-will. Interesting analogy. > > > > > > > > > > However, the thing that came to my mind immediately was this: > > If > > > > the > > > > > goat was a human child (say 10 or 12 even -- much less than > 15 > > > > say -- > > > > > I am sure he would be able to untie the rope around his neck > > and > > > > > climb the wall and escape. That is the difference between the > > > > > allegory of the goat when applied to humans! > > > > > > > > > > Hence there is more hope for humans through understanding and > > > > > remedies to overcome karma and boundaries and generally > > > > speaking "G"! > > > > > And by remedies I dont mean gemstones or easy escape routes > > alone! > > > > > > > > > > Does this make sense? > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > , "rishi_2000in" > > > > > <rishi_2000in@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Does one reach the escape velocity ? > > > > > > Or just a velocity which breaks the sound barrier of > > thoughts > > > > and > > > > > > the conscious awareness. > > > > > > In such a case one is subjected to the laws and has to once > > > > again > > > > > > begin abinitio, the earlier inings there , being counted > too > > > but > > > > we > > > > > > are not aware of the scores. > > > > > > For each karma done,whether one wants or not, the fruit > will > > be > > > > > > there. > > > > > > regards > > > > > > rishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Krishnan ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > The last sentence in your post is a keeper. Please allow > > me > > > to > > > > > > > highlight it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <<otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, despite no hope for an escape, the little insect > > must > > > > > > continue > > > > > > > to write, here, there, everywhere because it is not the > > web > > > > that > > > > > > is > > > > > > > killing it but the fact that it decided to give up > writing > > > > that > > > > > > > manual, "How to prevent Karma, at least the next time > > around!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sages are gone, the more recent NON-SAGE writers are > > > gone, > > > > > > even > > > > > > > more recent regular grihastha jyotishis and jyotish > > writers > > > > are > > > > > > gone! > > > > > > > Ripe fruit, keep falling daily, all the time and no one > is > > > > > > surprised > > > > > > > anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But Jyotish miraculously lives on and even improves in > > some > > > > ways. > > > > > > The > > > > > > > very fact that the Spider is giving the insect a chance > > and > > > > time > > > > > > to > > > > > > > write the treatise is meaningful! The Spider is not > > hungry, > > > it > > > > is > > > > > > > just doing its duty. The insect, on the other hand, is > the > > > one > > > > on > > > > > > > whom God's limelight is focused on!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, > > > > > > > > Risks being misunderstood and mis perceived need no > > > > > > > anticipation.it is always fecilitation of web based media > > and > > > > > > needs > > > > > > > more preservance. > > > > > > > > Karma is omni present in all actions good or > > > > > > bad.henceeternal.if > > > > > > > spider preys throgh the web and insect becomes victim as > > > that > > > > > day > > > > > > it > > > > > > > was the turn of the insect,i feel these are all events > > that > > > > > happen > > > > > > > around to witness.the study of the creation is awesome > and > > to > > > > > > account > > > > > > > for the happenings we lack really script.people venture > to > > > > > > > define "maya" and may be iam trying to define what it is > > > > knowing > > > > > > > fully well is abstract.This interlocked and > > interconnected > > > > > > > dependance can also be preceived as dahrma to follow for > > the > > > > rest > > > > > > of > > > > > > > ardha,kama and moksha.After all stages in life that come > > as > > > > > result > > > > > > of > > > > > > > cycle from birth to death do not need also a > > volunteer.things > > > > go > > > > > > on > > > > > > > and on....we either have to get amused and feel helpless > > or > > > > break > > > > > > > boundaries to violate and do something different.if this > > is > > > > what > > > > > > Maha > > > > > > > purush constitutes how ever rarely they dawn and > happen.we > > > > need > > > > > to > > > > > > > embold ourselves to do differently and bow every day to > > give > > > > you > > > > > > that > > > > > > > element to say you would like to different from > > > > > > > > others.otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Krishnanji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Responding to your posting in the thread but not > > > necessarily > > > > > > > > responding to your last message alone or even other > > > messages > > > > > but > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > addressing a thought-core that I am perceiving through > > my > > > > > biased > > > > > > > > human perception! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People describe and discuss karma and describe divinity > > or > > > > even > > > > > > > God. > > > > > > > > Or try to anyway. > > > > > > > > I am not criticising anyone because regardless of what > > > > spirit > > > > > or > > > > > > > vein > > > > > > > > something is written, by me, or anyone for that matter > > > risks > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > misunderstood and misperceived etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So let me just say it, as is my nature :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Three images loom in front of my mind's eye: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A small child raised by loving parents trying to define > > and > > > > > > > describe > > > > > > > > and write an essay on its Parents. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The same child now a teenager, doing the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The child, now a parent himself, describing his parent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The human being trying to describe God at different > > stages > > > > in > > > > > > his > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > her life! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another more fearsome image also looms in front of my > > > mind's > > > > > eye. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A tiny insect caught in the Spider's web trying to > write > > a > > > > > > treatise > > > > > > > > on the escape route! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A little sign near the web reads, "Karma" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > krishnan > > > > > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > > > > > This thread crux for wiping out past debts always > > keep > > > > > > > surfacing > > > > > > > > for the reason"as we are caught in the mesh of past and > > > > present" > > > > > > > > > If 'paropakaram is parama dharmam'we must find > > > > volunteers > > > > > to > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > good selflessly.we know sages, seers and mahapurushas > be > > it > > > > > Lord > > > > > > > > jesus Christ,Shri Shrdi Saibaba or even Satya Saibaba > > led > > > > the > > > > > > way > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > establish the fact that wiping out tears from torn > faces > > > and > > > > > > show > > > > > > > > them the way to lead life of righteousness was their > > > > concern.In > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > process what they have gained or lost is beyond our > > > > > > comprehension > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > the present.one thing is sure to the world that they > > > > christened > > > > > > > > as "messengers of god"..people found solace in their > > > > preachings > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > followers were blind enough to accept the path > suggested > > by > > > > > them > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > find merit and adopt the life.Also we are not aware of > > > their > > > > > > karmic > > > > > > > > results in the process.one thing evident that merits > for > > > > future > > > > > > > > guidance is""paropakaraya punyaya papaya > parapeedanam". > > > > doing > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > to others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. > > this > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the > > > > suffering"if > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > logic is meant for improving one's own account > > > > > > > > > through these means and dedicate for the cause > > > of 'manava > > > > > > sevaye > > > > > > > > madhava seva'and alleviate the sufferings of the some > > > > atleast > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > is some purpose to fulfil as a mission to do their bit > > as > > > > part > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > life.ultimately one has to contend'strange are the ways > > of > > > > > > God'to > > > > > > > > find swayam sevaks to deliver to the society in larger > > > > interest > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > involve in the struggle for good and bad.It must the > > same > > > > > > as'Dharma > > > > > > > > smasthapanaya sambhavami yuge yuge' > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > dear krishnan ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we discussed this subject in various threads earlier > > in > > > > this > > > > > > > group > > > > > > > > > but it is always good to discuss this important > > dimension > > > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in my understanding, the horoscope is like the > > statement > > > > of > > > > > > > karmic > > > > > > > > > account as on the date of birth in which all the > deeds > > of > > > > his > > > > > > > > > previous births have been factored and > an "indication" > > of > > > > > > future > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > presented. in share market, the footnote of any IPO > > > > > > says "past > > > > > > > > > performance is not an indicator of future success". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > generally till 15 years of ago, a native has no > > physical > > > > or > > > > > > > mental > > > > > > > > > capacity to change his karmic account. but > afterwards > > as > > > > the > > > > > > > > native > > > > > > > > > gains knowledge, the karmic account can be changed as > > he > > > > wish > > > > > > > to. > > > > > > > > > by doing good deeds he can earn more merit or wipe > off > > > the > > > > > > sins. > > > > > > > > > similarly by doing wrong deeds he can earn more sins > > and > > > > wipe > > > > > > off > > > > > > > > > the merits. to decipher merit and sin, sage vyasa > > said > > > > > > > > > simply "paropakaraya punyaya papaya parapeedanam". > > doing > > > > > good > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > others is punyam and doing bad to others is papam. > > this > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the > > > > suffering > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > heal > > > > > > > > > them like jesus or shirdi saibaba did. even > > ramakrishna > > > > and > > > > > > > > > vivekananda helped crores of people achieve self > > > > > realisation. > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > these god realised people are god themselves and > there > > is > > > > no > > > > > > > > > difference between god and these realised people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as mark once observed rightly, "your fuure is in your > > > > > hands". > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > are not a puppet with the strings in the hands of the > > > nine > > > > > > > > planets. > > > > > > > > > you have the power to break free and move forward or > > > > > surrender > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > the planets with inaction and have no growth at all. > > for > > > > a > > > > > > > > realised > > > > > > > > > person, planets are meaningless. for an ordinary > > layman > > > > > > enmeshed > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > the maya of dependance on few individuals or few > > objects, > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > are gods. for a realised person, god is within and > he > > is > > > > god. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > here comes the role of a guru to help one achieve > this > > > > > > > realisation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and regards > > > > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Shri Arjun ji, > > > > > > > > > > is it not that true that if we can get light and > > get > > > > > > > satisfied > > > > > > > > > with 'all are equated in getting the light of > > knowledge" > > > > > > > > > > removal of ignorance or darkness is a very very > > long > > > > > > journey > > > > > > > > > that involves not a single birth/janma.After all > > effort > > > > > should > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > keep making value additions in evry janma with > > > > consciouness > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > (some)realsiation > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have always emphasised the fact that classical > > > > works r > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > main framework of Jyotishya anyday and we need to > use > > > its > > > > > > built > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > desha, kala, paristihhi rule in it to amend, adopt > it > > > for > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > times, country, culture, political, ecconimic > > sitiations > > > > we > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > analysing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THE ORIGINAL QUESTION is not being covered but > > around > > > > it > > > > > a > > > > > > > lot > > > > > > > > > of discussion is going on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GURU in lagna a benefic, WILL HE REMOVE 100 > > > AFLICTIONS > > > > Y/N > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is true and no use digging into irrelevent > > > logic, > > > > > > stasts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as for a given chart he may remove 100 aflictions > > > > there > > > > > > can > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > many more present. > > > > > > > > > > so why dispute the 100 which 100 is the question > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GARGA is the source of this rule, guru in Lagna > > > > removes > > > > > > 100 > > > > > > > > > aflictions, in 10th many more 100's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT PLEASE REMEMBER THE 1ST PREAMBLE SLOKA ONE > > WRITES > > > > IN > > > > > > A > > > > > > > > > JANMA PATRI , very few computer horosope programs > > print > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Janani Janma Soukhyanam > > > > > > > > > > Vardhini Kula Sampadaam > > > > > > > > > > Padavim purvapunyaanaam > > > > > > > > > > Likhyetha Janampatrikahnaam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [there can be typos here] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > meaning the interpretations from a horoscope are > > > > compiled > > > > > > > form > > > > > > > > > the ommissions, commission of the family, which > arise > > > > from > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > status (morals), thus the native and his mothers > > fate r > > > > to > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > forecasted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhagavad Geetha also says one is born into a > > family > > > of > > > > a > > > > > > > > > particulkar trait as his previous vasana or > > sanmskaram > > > > thus > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > with good, ethical, dharmic, humble people are born > > into > > > > > such > > > > > > > > > families and people with anger, greed, avarice, > > hatred, > > > > > > > contempt, > > > > > > > > > hunger, illhealth etc into similar recivers of such > > > > karmaic > > > > > > > > > balances only > > > > > > > > > > so all cant't have same 100 Doshas to be cleansed > > by > > > > Guru > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > that matter nay benefic. so there is bound to be > > various > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > for different people born in the same Lagan that is > > 1/12 > > > > > > cases. > > > > > > > > > depending onther karma balance sheet > > > > > > > > > > a horoscope is the opening balance of Karma in > > this > > > > life. > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > brough forward from past lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plus the other amsas, their lagnas also matter > > don't > > > > they? > > > > > > > > > > the other elements of a horoscope, like > > > > > > > shadbala,ashtakkavarga > > > > > > > > > and above all the time-dasa for such thing to happen > > a > > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > or insurance that Guru's 100 waiver gives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so a balanced and intelligent interpretation is > > > called > > > > > for > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > outright acceptence or rejection. this problem comes > > as > > > > we > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > trying to fit in a whole picture from a single > point. > > > > when > > > > > it > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > only part of the whole picture thw whole picture > msut > > be > > > > > > studied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope there is some light in this effort.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > dear > > > RR > > > > ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > before discussing light on astrological > > perspective, > > > i > > > > > > > briefly > > > > > > > > > touch > > > > > > > > > > what this light is all about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our country "bharat" itself is full of light. > > bhasi > > > > > > diptau > > > > > > > > > ratah > > > > > > > > > > bharata. compare this to meaningless America > > which > > > > > denote > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > connote nothing except the americans' darkness > > > > > (ignorance) > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > continue their country remaining named after the > > > > Italian > > > > > > > > Amerigo > > > > > > > > > > Vespucci who was WRONGLY credited with > discovering > > > > that > > > > > > land. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what you said is true that, in layman's ability > > what > > > > is > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > mind is seen only by eyes. verily sun and moon > > are > > > > > > > attributed > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > both eyes or loosely as day and night. a > realised > > > > person > > > > > > > > > closing > > > > > > > > > > the eyes can see with his mind with his "divya > > > > drishti" > > > > > > and > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > sages and saints used to have this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old Testament, Genesis says that the entire > > creation > > > > > began > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > light. it also says man is god's own image. > when > > we > > > > > > > say "lead > > > > > > > > > us > > > > > > > > > > to light from darkness" and we want more light or > > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > > > like "tamaso ma yotir gamaya" we mean dispelling > > > > > > > our "ignorance > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > darkness" with the "light or knoweldge". a > > realised > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > sees > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > light or god within and an ignorant person > remains > > in > > > > > dark > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > not see god. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is written in upanishads that to know that > > light > > > > (god) > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > reach > > > > > > > > > > that light, one shall approach a Guru (jupiter) > > who > > > > has > > > > > > > > realised > > > > > > > > > > god. simply put, to remove our darkness or > > ignorance > > > > we > > > > > > seek > > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > > > or knowledge for which we approach the guru or > > > jupiter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in this context, the light of jupiter or > knowledge > > > > helps > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > native > > > > > > > > > > realise the god. be it the jupiter (guru of > > devatas) > > > > or > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > planet > > > > > > > > > > jupiter or the human guru, and remove our > > ignorance > > > > of > > > > > > > > darkness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > may jupiter's light shine on all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "crystal > > > > pages" > > > > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The proof that light exists in the > > astropragmatic > > > > (used > > > > > > to > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > astro-LOGICAL) framework is simple. It is what > > can > > > > > > actually > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > > because without light one cannot see! Right? > > What > > > > one > > > > > > can > > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > where light is at! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some have extended that to say: What the mind > > > knows, > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > eyes can see! Sarcastic perhaps but to clear my > > > > plate, > > > > > > it > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > original! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think about that, seriously, based on your > > personal > > > > > > > reality -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > please --rather than hitting the reply button > > > > and ...! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let us begin a new thread and really lay down > > our > > > > > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > the light that we glibly talk about in the > > > > astrological > > > > > > > > > framework > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > reference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other than the SUN the only source of light > that > > we > > > > > know > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > defend and moon its biggest reflector. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But let us go beyond that and discuss what this > > > > > > > > > > astrological 'light' > > > > > > > > > > > really is about in day to day astrology. We all > > can > > > > go > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > read > > > > > > > > > > > classics, thanks to many giants on whose > > shoulders > > > > we > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > allowed to stand and see far out! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > > DIVINITY > > > > > > AND > > > > > > > > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To from this group, send an email > to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > > Terms > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for > > > > > > ridiculously > > > > > > > > > low rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > DIVINITY > > > > AND > > > > > > > > RELISH > > > > > > > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To from this group, send an email > to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > > Terms > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How low will we go? Check out Messenger's > > low > > > PC- > > > > to- > > > > > > > Phone > > > > > > > > > call rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > DIVINITY > > > > AND > > > > > > > RELISH > > > > > > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology > > > > > software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > Terms > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ > > > > countries > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY > > AND > > > > > > RELISH > > > > > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology > > > > software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > Terms > > > > of > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love cheap thrills? 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Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Dear Nalini ji, Some people call the worldly goal the reflection of Maya, others call the path to that goal: Maya. If I understand what the wise told us, the present point of power, as Seth describes it, the here and now as others label it is not the maya. It is the momentary reality! The goal or that is not here and what one wants to achieve is more like the maya. But not ABSOLUTELY OR PERMANENTLY. When the goal, any goal -- is achieved, it automatically becomes the point of power and the here and now! Like an olympic medal around one's neck! The trick is, I believe, to keep an eye on the goal but not get so focussed on it that the 'here and now' broadsides us or overwhelms our awareness and takes up all our attention! I believe that a while ago, I used the analogy of keeping the eye on the 'ball'. I realize that it is all a game but have we not seen often enough and again and again how serious the game tends to get, at times? Thanks for your thoughts and sharing as always, RR , "auromirra19" <nalini2818 wrote: > > [Om Namo Narayanaya] > > sir, > I am sure sincere appreciation for the better endowed would not > constitute EGO, and would not be construed so. But what is > truly*real* in this world? It is like a 'maya sabha' , we mistake > one thing for the other, run after the virtual for a while, realise, > stop and reverse and continue in our quest.But that is how we learn, > discern to distinguish between the surreal, subtle real and the > truly Real. > The constant tussle between the perceived and the real, arudha and > lagna is the indvidual's quest for an *identity*, spiritual, > social,intellectual. > Nalini > [Om Namah Shivaya Namah Mallikarjunaya] > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Careful sister! That dangerously smacks of 'EGO'. You could be > taken > > to task by the panchayat (even though not quite five!) ;-) > > > > RR > > > > , "auromirra19" > > <nalini2818@> wrote: > > > > > > [Om Namo Narayanaya] > > > RRji, > > > I would throw my weight with the protracted ingenious brilliance > of > > > the insect in having kept the spider amused enough to have > > forgotten > > > all about gobbling it as prey. > > > Nalini > > > [Om Namah Shivaya Namah mallikarjunaya] --- In > > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Nalini, > > > > > > > > As always, you came through :-) with a fresh look at the > > > situation. > > > > Please take this as a compliment and not criticism (certainly > not > > > > personal!) but most of us are really blind persons trying to > > > figure > > > > out how the elephant is like and actually, unlike the fable of > > the > > > > elephant and men from Hindustan (as I believe it is called!), > > most > > > of > > > > us do not even know for sure if it is an elephant or a big > > Spider! > > > > Being blind from birth, most of us. > > > > > > > > But when someone suddenly comes into this 'blind party' > [misery > > > does > > > > love company and it *is* a party! <I bet there would be five > > > > insulting emails taking me to task and showing me my place -- > in > > > > response to that brash statement!> and claims or even > PROCLAIMS > > > that > > > > they are giving the answer the final answer based on > scriptures > > > and > > > > all then such statements must be responded to, questioned and > > > > challenged. That is not liked on some forums (fora) but I > refuse > > > to > > > > accept that position as even tenable. > > > > > > > > Simply put, we (all religions and cultures) have had > scriptures > > > and > > > > sage sayings and even more elite and illuminated statements, > > > straight > > > > from the MOUTH of GOD, not for ten or hundred but THOUSANDS of > > > years > > > > and according to a very sensational work in channeled > literature > > > > (revealed truth essentially, though certain religions may not > > > accept > > > > same for it did not come from within their courtyard) the > TRUTH > > > has > > > > been reinfused several times, many times before what we > consider > > > and > > > > accept our times, the ONLY times that creation has existed. > > Please > > > > remember this is just what has been written and not > necessarily > > > > endorsed by the author of this message or forum administration! > > > > > > > > Pardon my defensiveness after the recent skid-row I survived, > but > > > > the 'tiger balm' is really helping ;-) > > > > > > > > I like to draw all my inspiration from the pragmatic > experience > > > and > > > > wisdom and day-to-day reality. When I see that reflected and > > > > *CORRELATED* with something astral or > astrological/symbological > > it > > > > confirms a wonderful phrase that touches my soul: AS ABOVE SO > > > BELOW! > > > > > > > > It has been pointed out by kind souls that this statement is > not > > > > kosher and not true, but is that enough? I mean I admire the > > > staying > > > > power of the insect next to me on this KARMA-WEB, caught way > > > before > > > > me in the web of karma and still alive, but should the credit > go > > > to > > > > him or the kindness of the SPIDER? > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , "auromirra19" > > > > <nalini2818@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > [Om Namo Narayanaya] > > > > > RRji, > > > > > More often than not, the poor being is unaware of being > > > shackled, > > > > so > > > > > subtle is the bondage. Nor does it know that it is operating > > > within > > > > > a restricted ambit, it is happy to think that it is *free*. > The > > > > > thought of escape arises only when and if it realises the > > > > surreality > > > > > of it all, the walls, the rope. Till then it is ignorantly, > > > > > bissfully happy in its own 'free' world. > > > > > My few thoughts > > > > > Regards > > > > > nalini > > > > > [On Namah Shivaya Namah Mallikarjunaya] > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Rishi, > > > > > > > > > > > > You make a good point, but I would like to stretch the > > analogy > > > a > > > > > bit > > > > > > more, to the side, if I may :-) > > > > > > It is true that a certain escape velocity would be > required > > to > > > > > escape > > > > > > from the grativational pull (and would vary for each > planet > > > > > because > > > > > > the gravitational force would be different, I believe). > One > > > may > > > > > > extend the metaphor and see the similarity between escape > > from > > > > > > gravity and escape from the in-the-box or thinking in the > > > groove > > > > > > (skilfully trying to avoid the emotion-charged 'T' and "O" > > > > words!). > > > > > > > > > > > > However, in order to escape G, one does not have to leave > the > > > > > earth > > > > > > and antigravity practice simulators come to mind where > > > astronauts > > > > > > practice. One can remain within the BIG KARMA while > escaping > > > > > little > > > > > > karma at least temporarily! > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Mr. KN Rao once quoted Ramkrishna Parmahamsa > who > > > had > > > > > > stated that human soul is like the goat tied to a pole > with a > > > > rope > > > > > > within a locked courtyard. The Walls are the big KARMA > > > boundaries > > > > > > (dridha, I believe it is called technically) and the rope > is > > > the > > > > > > small karma and so called Free-will. Interesting analogy. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, the thing that came to my mind immediately was > this: > > > If > > > > > the > > > > > > goat was a human child (say 10 or 12 even -- much less > than > > 15 > > > > > say -- > > > > > > I am sure he would be able to untie the rope around his > neck > > > and > > > > > > climb the wall and escape. That is the difference between > the > > > > > > allegory of the goat when applied to humans! > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence there is more hope for humans through understanding > and > > > > > > remedies to overcome karma and boundaries and generally > > > > > speaking "G"! > > > > > > And by remedies I dont mean gemstones or easy escape > routes > > > alone! > > > > > > > > > > > > Does this make sense? > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rishi_2000in" > > > > > > <rishi_2000in@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does one reach the escape velocity ? > > > > > > > Or just a velocity which breaks the sound barrier of > > > thoughts > > > > > and > > > > > > > the conscious awareness. > > > > > > > In such a case one is subjected to the laws and has to > once > > > > > again > > > > > > > begin abinitio, the earlier inings there , being counted > > too > > > > but > > > > > we > > > > > > > are not aware of the scores. > > > > > > > For each karma done,whether one wants or not, the fruit > > will > > > be > > > > > > > there. > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > rishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Krishnan ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > The last sentence in your post is a keeper. Please > allow > > > me > > > > to > > > > > > > > highlight it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <<otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, despite no hope for an escape, the little > insect > > > must > > > > > > > continue > > > > > > > > to write, here, there, everywhere because it is not > the > > > web > > > > > that > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > killing it but the fact that it decided to give up > > writing > > > > > that > > > > > > > > manual, "How to prevent Karma, at least the next time > > > around!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sages are gone, the more recent NON-SAGE writers > are > > > > gone, > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > more recent regular grihastha jyotishis and jyotish > > > writers > > > > > are > > > > > > > gone! > > > > > > > > Ripe fruit, keep falling daily, all the time and no > one > > is > > > > > > > surprised > > > > > > > > anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But Jyotish miraculously lives on and even improves in > > > some > > > > > ways. > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > very fact that the Spider is giving the insect a > chance > > > and > > > > > time > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > write the treatise is meaningful! The Spider is not > > > hungry, > > > > it > > > > > is > > > > > > > > just doing its duty. The insect, on the other hand, is > > the > > > > one > > > > > on > > > > > > > > whom God's limelight is focused on!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > krishnan > > > > > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, > > > > > > > > > Risks being misunderstood and mis perceived need > no > > > > > > > > anticipation.it is always fecilitation of web based > media > > > and > > > > > > > needs > > > > > > > > more preservance. > > > > > > > > > Karma is omni present in all actions good or > > > > > > > bad.henceeternal.if > > > > > > > > spider preys throgh the web and insect becomes victim > as > > > > that > > > > > > day > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > was the turn of the insect,i feel these are all events > > > that > > > > > > happen > > > > > > > > around to witness.the study of the creation is awesome > > and > > > to > > > > > > > account > > > > > > > > for the happenings we lack really script.people > venture > > to > > > > > > > > define "maya" and may be iam trying to define what it > is > > > > > knowing > > > > > > > > fully well is abstract.This interlocked and > > > interconnected > > > > > > > > dependance can also be preceived as dahrma to follow > for > > > the > > > > > rest > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > ardha,kama and moksha.After all stages in life that > come > > > as > > > > > > result > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > cycle from birth to death do not need also a > > > volunteer.things > > > > > go > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > and on....we either have to get amused and feel > helpless > > > or > > > > > break > > > > > > > > boundaries to violate and do something different.if > this > > > is > > > > > what > > > > > > > Maha > > > > > > > > purush constitutes how ever rarely they dawn and > > happen.we > > > > > need > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > embold ourselves to do differently and bow every day > to > > > give > > > > > you > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > element to say you would like to different from > > > > > > > > > others.otheriwse this sojourn has no meaning > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Krishnanji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Responding to your posting in the thread but not > > > > necessarily > > > > > > > > > responding to your last message alone or even other > > > > messages > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > addressing a thought-core that I am perceiving > through > > > my > > > > > > biased > > > > > > > > > human perception! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People describe and discuss karma and describe > divinity > > > or > > > > > even > > > > > > > > God. > > > > > > > > > Or try to anyway. > > > > > > > > > I am not criticising anyone because regardless of > what > > > > > spirit > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > vein > > > > > > > > > something is written, by me, or anyone for that > matter > > > > risks > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > misunderstood and misperceived etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So let me just say it, as is my nature :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Three images loom in front of my mind's eye: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A small child raised by loving parents trying to > define > > > and > > > > > > > > describe > > > > > > > > > and write an essay on its Parents. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The same child now a teenager, doing the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The child, now a parent himself, describing his > parent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The human being trying to describe God at different > > > stages > > > > > in > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > her life! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another more fearsome image also looms in front of > my > > > > mind's > > > > > > eye. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A tiny insect caught in the Spider's web trying to > > write > > > a > > > > > > > treatise > > > > > > > > > on the escape route! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A little sign near the web reads, "Karma" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > > > > > > This thread crux for wiping out past debts > always > > > keep > > > > > > > > surfacing > > > > > > > > > for the reason"as we are caught in the mesh of past > and > > > > > present" > > > > > > > > > > If 'paropakaram is parama dharmam'we must find > > > > > volunteers > > > > > > to > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > good selflessly.we know sages, seers and > mahapurushas > > be > > > it > > > > > > Lord > > > > > > > > > jesus Christ,Shri Shrdi Saibaba or even Satya > Saibaba > > > led > > > > > the > > > > > > > way > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > establish the fact that wiping out tears from torn > > faces > > > > and > > > > > > > show > > > > > > > > > them the way to lead life of righteousness was their > > > > > concern.In > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > process what they have gained or lost is beyond our > > > > > > > comprehension > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > the present.one thing is sure to the world that they > > > > > christened > > > > > > > > > as "messengers of god"..people found solace in their > > > > > preachings > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > followers were blind enough to accept the path > > suggested > > > by > > > > > > them > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > find merit and adopt the life.Also we are not aware > of > > > > their > > > > > > > karmic > > > > > > > > > results in the process.one thing evident that merits > > for > > > > > future > > > > > > > > > guidance is""paropakaraya punyaya papaya > > parapeedanam". > > > > > doing > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > to others is punyam and doing bad to others is > papam. > > > this > > > > > is > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the > > > > > suffering"if > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > logic is meant for improving one's own account > > > > > > > > > > through these means and dedicate for the cause > > > > of 'manava > > > > > > > sevaye > > > > > > > > > madhava seva'and alleviate the sufferings of the > some > > > > > atleast > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > is some purpose to fulfil as a mission to do their > bit > > > as > > > > > part > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > life.ultimately one has to contend'strange are the > ways > > > of > > > > > > > God'to > > > > > > > > > find swayam sevaks to deliver to the society in > larger > > > > > interest > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > involve in the struggle for good and bad.It must the > > > same > > > > > > > as'Dharma > > > > > > > > > smasthapanaya sambhavami yuge yuge' > > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > dear krishnan ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we discussed this subject in various threads > earlier > > > in > > > > > this > > > > > > > > group > > > > > > > > > > but it is always good to discuss this important > > > dimension > > > > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in my understanding, the horoscope is like the > > > statement > > > > > of > > > > > > > > karmic > > > > > > > > > > account as on the date of birth in which all the > > deeds > > > of > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > previous births have been factored and > > an "indication" > > > of > > > > > > > future > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > presented. in share market, the footnote of any > IPO > > > > > > > says "past > > > > > > > > > > performance is not an indicator of future success". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > generally till 15 years of ago, a native has no > > > physical > > > > > or > > > > > > > > mental > > > > > > > > > > capacity to change his karmic account. but > > afterwards > > > as > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > native > > > > > > > > > > gains knowledge, the karmic account can be changed > as > > > he > > > > > wish > > > > > > > > to. > > > > > > > > > > by doing good deeds he can earn more merit or wipe > > off > > > > the > > > > > > > sins. > > > > > > > > > > similarly by doing wrong deeds he can earn more > sins > > > and > > > > > wipe > > > > > > > off > > > > > > > > > > the merits. to decipher merit and sin, sage vyasa > > > said > > > > > > > > > > simply "paropakaraya punyaya papaya > parapeedanam". > > > doing > > > > > > good > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > others is punyam and doing bad to others is > papam. > > > this > > > > > is > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > reason why god realised souls go in search of the > > > > > suffering > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > heal > > > > > > > > > > them like jesus or shirdi saibaba did. even > > > ramakrishna > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > vivekananda helped crores of people achieve self > > > > > > realisation. > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > these god realised people are god themselves and > > there > > > is > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > difference between god and these realised people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as mark once observed rightly, "your fuure is in > your > > > > > > hands". > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > are not a puppet with the strings in the hands of > the > > > > nine > > > > > > > > > planets. > > > > > > > > > > you have the power to break free and move forward > or > > > > > > surrender > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > the planets with inaction and have no growth at > all. > > > for > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > realised > > > > > > > > > > person, planets are meaningless. for an ordinary > > > layman > > > > > > > enmeshed > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > the maya of dependance on few individuals or few > > > objects, > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > are gods. for a realised person, god is within > and > > he > > > is > > > > > god. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > here comes the role of a guru to help one achieve > > this > > > > > > > > realisation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and regards > > > > > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Shri Arjun ji, > > > > > > > > > > > is it not that true that if we can get light > and > > > get > > > > > > > > satisfied > > > > > > > > > > with 'all are equated in getting the light of > > > knowledge" > > > > > > > > > > > removal of ignorance or darkness is a very > very > > > long > > > > > > > journey > > > > > > > > > > that involves not a single birth/janma.After all > > > effort > > > > > > should > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > keep making value additions in evry janma with > > > > > consciouness > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > (some)realsiation > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have always emphasised the fact that > classical > > > > > works r > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > main framework of Jyotishya anyday and we need to > > use > > > > its > > > > > > > built > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > desha, kala, paristihhi rule in it to amend, > adopt > > it > > > > for > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > times, country, culture, political, ecconimic > > > sitiations > > > > > we > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > analysing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THE ORIGINAL QUESTION is not being covered but > > > around > > > > > it > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > lot > > > > > > > > > > of discussion is going on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GURU in lagna a benefic, WILL HE REMOVE 100 > > > > AFLICTIONS > > > > > Y/N > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is true and no use digging into > irrelevent > > > > logic, > > > > > > > stasts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as for a given chart he may remove 100 > aflictions > > > > > there > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > many more present. > > > > > > > > > > > so why dispute the 100 which 100 is the > question > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GARGA is the source of this rule, guru in > Lagna > > > > > removes > > > > > > > 100 > > > > > > > > > > aflictions, in 10th many more 100's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT PLEASE REMEMBER THE 1ST PREAMBLE SLOKA ONE > > > WRITES > > > > > IN > > > > > > > A > > > > > > > > > > JANMA PATRI , very few computer horosope programs > > > print > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Janani Janma Soukhyanam > > > > > > > > > > > Vardhini Kula Sampadaam > > > > > > > > > > > Padavim purvapunyaanaam > > > > > > > > > > > Likhyetha Janampatrikahnaam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [there can be typos here] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > meaning the interpretations from a horoscope > are > > > > > compiled > > > > > > > > form > > > > > > > > > > the ommissions, commission of the family, which > > arise > > > > > from > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > status (morals), thus the native and his mothers > > > fate r > > > > > to > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > forecasted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhagavad Geetha also says one is born into a > > > family > > > > of > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > particulkar trait as his previous vasana or > > > sanmskaram > > > > > thus > > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > > with good, ethical, dharmic, humble people are > born > > > into > > > > > > such > > > > > > > > > > families and people with anger, greed, avarice, > > > hatred, > > > > > > > > contempt, > > > > > > > > > > hunger, illhealth etc into similar recivers of > such > > > > > karmaic > > > > > > > > > > balances only > > > > > > > > > > > so all cant't have same 100 Doshas to be > cleansed > > > by > > > > > Guru > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > that matter nay benefic. so there is bound to be > > > various > > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > for different people born in the same Lagan that > is > > > 1/12 > > > > > > > cases. > > > > > > > > > > depending onther karma balance sheet > > > > > > > > > > > a horoscope is the opening balance of Karma in > > > this > > > > > life. > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > brough forward from past lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plus the other amsas, their lagnas also matter > > > don't > > > > > they? > > > > > > > > > > > the other elements of a horoscope, like > > > > > > > > shadbala,ashtakkavarga > > > > > > > > > > and above all the time-dasa for such thing to > happen > > > a > > > > > > > > protection > > > > > > > > > > or insurance that Guru's 100 waiver gives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so a balanced and intelligent interpretation > is > > > > called > > > > > > for > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > outright acceptence or rejection. this problem > comes > > > as > > > > > we > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > trying to fit in a whole picture from a single > > point. > > > > > when > > > > > > it > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > only part of the whole picture thw whole picture > > msut > > > be > > > > > > > studied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope there is some light in this effort.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > dear > > > > RR > > > > > ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > before discussing light on astrological > > > perspective, > > > > i > > > > > > > > briefly > > > > > > > > > > touch > > > > > > > > > > > what this light is all about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our country "bharat" itself is full of light. > > > bhasi > > > > > > > diptau > > > > > > > > > > ratah > > > > > > > > > > > bharata. compare this to meaningless America > > > which > > > > > > denote > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > connote nothing except the americans' darkness > > > > > > (ignorance) > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > continue their country remaining named after > the > > > > > Italian > > > > > > > > > Amerigo > > > > > > > > > > > Vespucci who was WRONGLY credited with > > discovering > > > > > that > > > > > > > land. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what you said is true that, in layman's > ability > > > what > > > > > is > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > mind is seen only by eyes. verily sun and > moon > > > are > > > > > > > > attributed > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > both eyes or loosely as day and night. a > > realised > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > closing > > > > > > > > > > > the eyes can see with his mind with his "divya > > > > > drishti" > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > sages and saints used to have this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old Testament, Genesis says that the entire > > > creation > > > > > > began > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > light. it also says man is god's own image. > > when > > > we > > > > > > > > say "lead > > > > > > > > > > us > > > > > > > > > > > to light from darkness" and we want more light > or > > > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > > > > like "tamaso ma yotir gamaya" we mean > dispelling > > > > > > > > our "ignorance > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > darkness" with the "light or knoweldge". a > > > realised > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > sees > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > light or god within and an ignorant person > > remains > > > in > > > > > > dark > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > not see god. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is written in upanishads that to know that > > > light > > > > > (god) > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > reach > > > > > > > > > > > that light, one shall approach a Guru > (jupiter) > > > who > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > realised > > > > > > > > > > > god. simply put, to remove our darkness or > > > ignorance > > > > > we > > > > > > > seek > > > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > > > > or knowledge for which we approach the guru or > > > > jupiter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in this context, the light of jupiter or > > knowledge > > > > > helps > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > native > > > > > > > > > > > realise the god. be it the jupiter (guru of > > > devatas) > > > > > or > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > planet > > > > > > > > > > > jupiter or the human guru, and remove our > > > ignorance > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > darkness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > may jupiter's light shine on all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > , "crystal > > > > > pages" > > > > > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The proof that light exists in the > > > astropragmatic > > > > > (used > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > > > astro-LOGICAL) framework is simple. It is > what > > > can > > > > > > > actually > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > seen > > > > > > > > > > > > because without light one cannot see! Right? > > > What > > > > > one > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > where light is at! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some have extended that to say: What the > mind > > > > knows, > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > eyes can see! Sarcastic perhaps but to clear > my > > > > > plate, > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > original! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think about that, seriously, based on your > > > personal > > > > > > > > reality -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > please --rather than hitting the reply > button > > > > > and ...! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let us begin a new thread and really lay > down > > > our > > > > > > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > the light that we glibly talk about in the > > > > > astrological > > > > > > > > > > framework > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > reference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other than the SUN the only source of light > > that > > > we > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > defend and moon its biggest reflector. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But let us go beyond that and discuss what > this > > > > > > > > > > > astrological 'light' > > > > > > > > > > > > really is about in day to day astrology. We > all > > > can > > > > > go > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > read > > > > > > > > > > > > classics, thanks to many giants on whose > > > shoulders > > > > > we > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > allowed to stand and see far out! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > > > DIVINITY > > > > > > > AND > > > > > > > > > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the > web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To from this group, send an > email > > to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > > > > Terms > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls > for > > > > > > > ridiculously > > > > > > > > > > low rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > DIVINITY > > > > > AND > > > > > > > > > RELISH > > > > > > > > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the > web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To from this group, send an > email > > to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > > > > Terms > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How low will we go? Check out Messenger's > > > low > > > > PC- > > > > > to- > > > > > > > > Phone > > > > > > > > > > call rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > DIVINITY > > > > > AND > > > > > > > > RELISH > > > > > > > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart > Astrology > > > > > > software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To from this group, send an email > to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > > Terms > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to > 30+ > > > > > countries > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > DIVINITY > > > AND > > > > > > > RELISH > > > > > > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart > Astrology > > > > > software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > Terms > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ > > > > > countries > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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