Guest guest Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 I am sorry dear but I must be the party-pooper in this thread :-( You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do with the debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' and an extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? Please educate us some more. Much appreciated RR , "sreesog" <sreesog wrote: > > , "Sreenadh" > <sreelid@> wrote: > > Dear All, > As per astrological classics, for: > Aries - Leo and Scorpio > Taurus - Cancer and Libra > Gemini - Virgo > Cancer - Scorpio and Sagittarius > Leo - Libra > Virgo - Gemini and Pisces > Libra - Virgo and Capricorn > Scorpio - Cancer > Sagittarius - Pisces > Capricorn - Aquarius and Aries > Aquarius - Aries > Pisces - Capricorn > are Vasya signs. > What is the logic behind this concept? Let us try to understand. > > For Aries, Leo and Scorpio are Vasya Signs. Why? > Leo - the lord of Leo gets exalted in Aries. > Scorpio - Aries and Scorpio are ruled by the same planet. > Rule : (1) If any other planet gets exalted in the sign then the > sign ruled by that planet could be a Vasya sign. > Rule : (2) If the lord of 2 signs are the same, the second sign > could be a Vasya sign for the first and vice-versa. > > For Taurus, Libra and Cancer are Vasya signs. Why? > Cancer - Rule (1) applies here. Lord of Cancer Moon is exalted > in Taurus. > Libra - Rule (1) applies here. Taurus and Libra are ruled by the > same planet Ve. > > For Gemini, Virgo is Vasya sign. Why? > Virgo - Rule (2) applies here. Gemini and Virgo are ruled by the > same planet. > > For Cancer, Scorpio and Sagittarius are Vasya signs. Why? > Scorpio - Is there any connection? The lord of Cancer gets > debilitated in Scorpio!! Both Cancer and Scorpio are signs that > represent reptiles - i.e. Sareesripa signs. The lord of Scorpio gets > debilitated in Cancer. So there is a very strong connection between > the two signs. > Rule : (3) The sign in which the lord of the first considered > sign gets debilitated could be a Vasya sign. (Here Mo gets > debilitated in Scorpio) > Sagittarius - Rule (1) applies here. The lord of Sagittarius > gets exalted in Cancer. > > For Leo, Libra is Vasya sign. Why? > Lira - Rule (3) applies here. Lord of Leo Sun gets debilitated in > Leo. > > For Virgo, Gemini and Pisces are Vasya Signs. Why? > Gemini - Rule (2) applies. Gemini and Virgo are ruled by the same > planet Me. > Pisces - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Virgo Me gets debilitated in > Piaces. > > For Libra, Virgo and Capricorn are Vasya signs. Why? > Virgo - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Libra gets debilitated in > Virgo. > Capricorn - Rule (1) applies. Lord of Capricorn Sa gets exalted > in Libra. > > For Scorpio, Cancer is the Vasya sign. Why? > Cancer - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Scorpio Ma gets debilitated in > Cancer. > > For Sagittarius, Pisces is Vasya sign. Why? > Pisces - Rule (2) applies. Sagittarius and Pisces are ruled by > the same planet Ju. > > For Capricorn, Aquarius and Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > Aquarius - Rule (2) applies. Capricorn and Aquarius are ruled by > the same planet Sa. > Aries - Rule (1) applies. The lord of Aries gets exalted in > Capricorn. > > For Aquarius, Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > Aquarius - Rule (3) applies. The lord of Aquarius gets > debilitated in Aries. > > Fro Pisces, Sagittarius is the Vasya sign. Why? > Sagittarius - Rule (2) applies. Pisces and Sagittarius are ruled > by the same planet. > > Lesson to remember: The sages never tell a thing without reason and > Logic!! We just need to search and find it out!! > Love, > Sreenadh > > --- End forwarded message --- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Dear RR ji, You said: > You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do with the > debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' and an > extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! > Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? > Please educate us some more. Dear RR ji, I am happy that you have accepted it at least as a 'correlation' Thank you for that. Let it be 'correlation' or 'logic', if this understanding is useful to us, and at least interests some (Thank you for the words 'extremely interesting observation') then I am satisfied. I am teacher to none. We are just sharing the knowledge and info we can get (from sources such as classics or otherwise). I won't like to play the role of best knowledgeable fellow in this forum, since I know well that there are many far better than me in this forum, and would love to humbly bow to their knowledge and also would love to remain the humble student of astrology, to learn what ever they can teach me and share with me, including yourself. If we can find such beautiful correlations for all the Vasya signs (with no exception!), it indicates that, originally the saints considered these Rasis as vasya rasis probably only after understanding this fact. I hope many will consider this as a logically correct observation. Ok. Here again the word 'logically correct' popes up! We should do some thing about this word 'Logic'! The dictionary says: Logic = science of reasoning, correctly reasoned, chain of reasoning, a particular system or method of reasoning. etc. It originated from the Greek word 'logikos'. 'logos' means knowledge. What is the exact meaning of 'logikos'? Somebody should teach me. But in essence 'anything correctly reasoned' or 'anything that follows a particular system or method of reasoning' is 'logical'. All reasoning is nothing but the correlation of cause and effect. Reasoning means 'trying to reach conclusions by connected thought'. Is that 'correlation' is not part of that? Coming to Sanskrit the word used is 'Yukti'. The traditional definition is that 'Unakteeti Yukti' meaning 'anything that correlates' could be termed 'Yukti'. While translation the word Yukti is replaced with the words 'reasoning' or 'logically correct arguments' or simply 'logic'. Thus if we consider English or Sanskrit the logic has indicates 'connecting ideas', or 'co-relating ideas'. Actually the word 'Yukti' has a far beyond connotation, than the mere logical reasoning (which is a duty of the top layer i.e. consciousness - if we consider the 3 layers pointed to by Froid - conscious, semi conscious and unconscious mind). As said earlier the word 'Yukti' ('Unakteeti Yukti') means 'anything that correlates'. This phenomenon is happening not only in the top layer of mind i.e. consciousness, but also in the semi conscious and unconscious mind as well!! This constant process of correlating and connecting ideas/concepts/sensations/perceptions is happening in all the layers of the mind all the time!! When this process popes up from the semi- conscious mind to the rest taking conscious mind in the night, we call it 'dream'! All of us may have felt, how the unrelated ideas that pass through our conscious mind, and beautifully correlated and presented in the dream, like a Cinema, happening right before our eyes!! This 'correlating and connecting of anything that goes into the mind' is not limited to conscious and unconscious mind alone - it is there in work in the unconscious mind as well. At times we get a proof of it, when some 'intuition' or 'revelation' popes up!! It was not there in conscious, or semiconscious, but see...! How on a sudden idea came out of our mind..!! It was there within!! Hiding there in the unconscious!! Thus this process of correlating and connecting, which the Rishis has correctly termed 'Yukti' is present there in all the three layers of mind, and indicates the constant process of that happens - always! within! Yes, if we translate and use the word logic instead of Yukti, then...yes..logic is part of all the tree layers of mind, and it is nothing but the process of correlating and connecting ideas. Even if we limit the meaning of the word 'logic' to 'reasoning that is happening in the conscious mind' alone, then also 'correlating and connecting' is there, since reasoning it self means 'creating and connecting of ideas'. These are just passing thoughts. But never mind. They are not important. If you feel that there seems to exist a correlation in that concept of Vasya signs, I am satisfied, and is thankful to you for appreciating that observation. But at the end, should we dip ourselves into the meaning of these words, as long as what we intend to convey is getting conveyed? Words are for communication, and if the ideas put forward is understood by the other person and generates interest in him, is that not enough? Yes, if you like to call it just like to call it `a correlation' rather than `logic', ok, then as well, I have no objection - It was just a word used to convey an idea. Love, Sreenadh , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > I am sorry dear but I must be the party-pooper in this thread :-( > > You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do with the > debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' and an > extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! > > Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? > > Please educate us some more. > > Much appreciated > > RR > > , "sreesog" <sreesog@> > wrote: > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > As per astrological classics, for: > > Aries - Leo and Scorpio > > Taurus - Cancer and Libra > > Gemini - Virgo > > Cancer - Scorpio and Sagittarius > > Leo - Libra > > Virgo - Gemini and Pisces > > Libra - Virgo and Capricorn > > Scorpio - Cancer > > Sagittarius - Pisces > > Capricorn - Aquarius and Aries > > Aquarius - Aries > > Pisces - Capricorn > > are Vasya signs. > > What is the logic behind this concept? Let us try to understand. > > > > For Aries, Leo and Scorpio are Vasya Signs. Why? > > Leo - the lord of Leo gets exalted in Aries. > > Scorpio - Aries and Scorpio are ruled by the same planet. > > Rule : (1) If any other planet gets exalted in the sign then > the > > sign ruled by that planet could be a Vasya sign. > > Rule : (2) If the lord of 2 signs are the same, the second sign > > could be a Vasya sign for the first and vice-versa. > > > > For Taurus, Libra and Cancer are Vasya signs. Why? > > Cancer - Rule (1) applies here. Lord of Cancer Moon is exalted > > in Taurus. > > Libra - Rule (1) applies here. Taurus and Libra are ruled by > the > > same planet Ve. > > > > For Gemini, Virgo is Vasya sign. Why? > > Virgo - Rule (2) applies here. Gemini and Virgo are ruled by > the > > same planet. > > > > For Cancer, Scorpio and Sagittarius are Vasya signs. Why? > > Scorpio - Is there any connection? The lord of Cancer gets > > debilitated in Scorpio!! Both Cancer and Scorpio are signs that > > represent reptiles - i.e. Sareesripa signs. The lord of Scorpio > gets > > debilitated in Cancer. So there is a very strong connection between > > the two signs. > > Rule : (3) The sign in which the lord of the first considered > > sign gets debilitated could be a Vasya sign. (Here Mo gets > > debilitated in Scorpio) > > Sagittarius - Rule (1) applies here. The lord of Sagittarius > > gets exalted in Cancer. > > > > For Leo, Libra is Vasya sign. Why? > > Lira - Rule (3) applies here. Lord of Leo Sun gets debilitated > in > > Leo. > > > > For Virgo, Gemini and Pisces are Vasya Signs. Why? > > Gemini - Rule (2) applies. Gemini and Virgo are ruled by the > same > > planet Me. > > Pisces - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Virgo Me gets debilitated in > > Piaces. > > > > For Libra, Virgo and Capricorn are Vasya signs. Why? > > Virgo - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Libra gets debilitated in > > Virgo. > > Capricorn - Rule (1) applies. Lord of Capricorn Sa gets > exalted > > in Libra. > > > > For Scorpio, Cancer is the Vasya sign. Why? > > Cancer - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Scorpio Ma gets debilitated > in > > Cancer. > > > > For Sagittarius, Pisces is Vasya sign. Why? > > Pisces - Rule (2) applies. Sagittarius and Pisces are ruled by > > the same planet Ju. > > > > For Capricorn, Aquarius and Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > > Aquarius - Rule (2) applies. Capricorn and Aquarius are ruled > by > > the same planet Sa. > > Aries - Rule (1) applies. The lord of Aries gets exalted in > > Capricorn. > > > > For Aquarius, Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > > Aquarius - Rule (3) applies. The lord of Aquarius gets > > debilitated in Aries. > > > > Fro Pisces, Sagittarius is the Vasya sign. Why? > > Sagittarius - Rule (2) applies. Pisces and Sagittarius are > ruled > > by the same planet. > > > > Lesson to remember: The sages never tell a thing without reason > and > > Logic!! We just need to search and find it out!! > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Dear RR ji, On the second reading of my own mail, I found that I have made some typos in it. The CAPS indicate the corrections. 1) This 'correlating and connecting of anything that goes into the mind' is not limited to conscious and SEMI-conscious mind alone - it is there in work in the unconscious mind as well. 2) froid (SIGMUND FREUD - The famous German Psychologist) 2) Even if we limit the meaning of the word 'logic' to 'reasoning that is happening in the conscious mind' alone, then also 'CORRELATING and connecting' is there, since reasoning it self means 'correlating and connecting of ideas'. I request all to apply these corrections as well, while reading my previous mail. Love, Sreenadh , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote: > > Dear RR ji, You said: > > You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do with the > > debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' and > an > > extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! > > Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? > > Please educate us some more. > Dear RR ji, I am happy that you have accepted it at least as > a 'correlation' Thank you for that. Let it be 'correlation' > or 'logic', if this understanding is useful to us, and at least > interests some (Thank you for the words 'extremely interesting > observation') then I am satisfied. I am teacher to none. We are > just sharing the knowledge and info we can get (from sources such as > classics or otherwise). I won't like to play the role of best > knowledgeable fellow in this forum, since I know well that there are > many far better than me in this forum, and would love to humbly bow > to their knowledge and also would love to remain the humble student > of astrology, to learn what ever they can teach me and share with me, > including yourself. If we can find such beautiful correlations for > all the Vasya signs (with no exception!), it indicates that, > originally the saints considered these Rasis as vasya rasis probably > only after understanding this fact. I hope many will consider this as > a logically correct observation. > Ok. Here again the word 'logically correct' popes up! We should do > some thing about this word 'Logic'! The dictionary says: Logic = > science of reasoning, correctly reasoned, chain of reasoning, a > particular system or method of reasoning. etc. It originated from the > Greek word 'logikos'. 'logos' means knowledge. What is the exact > meaning of 'logikos'? Somebody should teach me. But in > essence 'anything correctly reasoned' or 'anything that follows a > particular system or method of reasoning' is 'logical'. All reasoning > is nothing but the correlation of cause and effect. Reasoning > means 'trying to reach conclusions by connected thought'. Is > that 'correlation' is not part of that? > Coming to Sanskrit the word used is 'Yukti'. The traditional > definition is that 'Unakteeti Yukti' meaning 'anything that > correlates' could be termed 'Yukti'. While translation the word Yukti > is replaced with the words 'reasoning' or 'logically correct > arguments' or simply 'logic'. > Thus if we consider English or Sanskrit the logic has > indicates 'connecting ideas', or 'co-relating ideas'. > Actually the word 'Yukti' has a far beyond connotation, than the > mere logical reasoning (which is a duty of the top layer i.e. > consciousness - if we consider the 3 layers pointed to by Froid - > conscious, semi conscious and unconscious mind). As said earlier the > word 'Yukti' ('Unakteeti Yukti') means 'anything that correlates'. > This phenomenon is happening not only in the top layer of mind i.e. > consciousness, but also in the semi conscious and unconscious mind as > well!! This constant process of correlating and connecting > ideas/concepts/sensations/perceptions is happening in all the layers > of the mind all the time!! When this process popes up from the semi- > conscious mind to the rest taking conscious mind in the night, we > call it 'dream'! All of us may have felt, how the unrelated ideas > that pass through our conscious mind, and beautifully correlated and > presented in the dream, like a Cinema, happening right before our > eyes!! This 'correlating and connecting of anything that goes into > the mind' is not limited to conscious and unconscious mind alone - it > is there in work in the unconscious mind as well. At times we get a > proof of it, when some 'intuition' or 'revelation' popes up!! It was > not there in conscious, or semiconscious, but see...! How on a sudden > idea came out of our mind..!! It was there within!! Hiding there in > the unconscious!! Thus this process of correlating and connecting, > which the Rishis has correctly termed 'Yukti' is present there in all > the three layers of mind, and indicates the constant process of that > happens - always! within! > Yes, if we translate and use the word logic instead of Yukti, > then...yes..logic is part of all the tree layers of mind, and it is > nothing but the process of correlating and connecting ideas. Even if > we limit the meaning of the word 'logic' to 'reasoning that is > happening in the conscious mind' alone, then also 'correlating and > connecting' is there, since reasoning it self means 'creating and > connecting of ideas'. > These are just passing thoughts. But never mind. They are not > important. If you feel that there seems to exist a correlation in > that concept of Vasya signs, I am satisfied, and is thankful to you > for appreciating that observation. > But at the end, should we dip ourselves into the meaning of these > words, as long as what we intend to convey is getting conveyed? Words > are for communication, and if the ideas put forward is understood by > the other person and generates interest in him, is that not enough? > Yes, if you like to call it just like to call it `a correlation' > rather than `logic', ok, then as well, I have no objection - It was > just a word used to convey an idea. > Love, > Sreenadh > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > I am sorry dear but I must be the party-pooper in this thread :-( > > > > You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do with > the > > debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' and > an > > extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! > > > > Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? > > > > Please educate us some more. > > > > Much appreciated > > > > RR > > > > , "sreesog" <sreesog@> > > wrote: > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > As per astrological classics, for: > > > Aries - Leo and Scorpio > > > Taurus - Cancer and Libra > > > Gemini - Virgo > > > Cancer - Scorpio and Sagittarius > > > Leo - Libra > > > Virgo - Gemini and Pisces > > > Libra - Virgo and Capricorn > > > Scorpio - Cancer > > > Sagittarius - Pisces > > > Capricorn - Aquarius and Aries > > > Aquarius - Aries > > > Pisces - Capricorn > > > are Vasya signs. > > > What is the logic behind this concept? Let us try to understand. > > > > > > For Aries, Leo and Scorpio are Vasya Signs. Why? > > > Leo - the lord of Leo gets exalted in Aries. > > > Scorpio - Aries and Scorpio are ruled by the same planet. > > > Rule : (1) If any other planet gets exalted in the sign then > > the > > > sign ruled by that planet could be a Vasya sign. > > > Rule : (2) If the lord of 2 signs are the same, the second > sign > > > could be a Vasya sign for the first and vice-versa. > > > > > > For Taurus, Libra and Cancer are Vasya signs. Why? > > > Cancer - Rule (1) applies here. Lord of Cancer Moon is > exalted > > > in Taurus. > > > Libra - Rule (1) applies here. Taurus and Libra are ruled by > > the > > > same planet Ve. > > > > > > For Gemini, Virgo is Vasya sign. Why? > > > Virgo - Rule (2) applies here. Gemini and Virgo are ruled by > > the > > > same planet. > > > > > > For Cancer, Scorpio and Sagittarius are Vasya signs. Why? > > > Scorpio - Is there any connection? The lord of Cancer gets > > > debilitated in Scorpio!! Both Cancer and Scorpio are signs that > > > represent reptiles - i.e. Sareesripa signs. The lord of Scorpio > > gets > > > debilitated in Cancer. So there is a very strong connection > between > > > the two signs. > > > Rule : (3) The sign in which the lord of the first > considered > > > sign gets debilitated could be a Vasya sign. (Here Mo gets > > > debilitated in Scorpio) > > > Sagittarius - Rule (1) applies here. The lord of Sagittarius > > > gets exalted in Cancer. > > > > > > For Leo, Libra is Vasya sign. Why? > > > Lira - Rule (3) applies here. Lord of Leo Sun gets > debilitated > > in > > > Leo. > > > > > > For Virgo, Gemini and Pisces are Vasya Signs. Why? > > > Gemini - Rule (2) applies. Gemini and Virgo are ruled by the > > same > > > planet Me. > > > Pisces - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Virgo Me gets debilitated > in > > > Piaces. > > > > > > For Libra, Virgo and Capricorn are Vasya signs. Why? > > > Virgo - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Libra gets debilitated in > > > Virgo. > > > Capricorn - Rule (1) applies. Lord of Capricorn Sa gets > > exalted > > > in Libra. > > > > > > For Scorpio, Cancer is the Vasya sign. Why? > > > Cancer - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Scorpio Ma gets > debilitated > > in > > > Cancer. > > > > > > For Sagittarius, Pisces is Vasya sign. Why? > > > Pisces - Rule (2) applies. Sagittarius and Pisces are ruled > by > > > the same planet Ju. > > > > > > For Capricorn, Aquarius and Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > > > Aquarius - Rule (2) applies. Capricorn and Aquarius are > ruled > > by > > > the same planet Sa. > > > Aries - Rule (1) applies. The lord of Aries gets exalted in > > > Capricorn. > > > > > > For Aquarius, Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > > > Aquarius - Rule (3) applies. The lord of Aquarius gets > > > debilitated in Aries. > > > > > > Fro Pisces, Sagittarius is the Vasya sign. Why? > > > Sagittarius - Rule (2) applies. Pisces and Sagittarius are > > ruled > > > by the same planet. > > > > > > Lesson to remember: The sages never tell a thing without reason > > and > > > Logic!! We just need to search and find it out!! > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Sreenathji, I will not let you run with it ;-) No personal offence intended, so please do not. I agree that yukti and yugma indicate connectivity and oneness but correlation is not the same as connection! Correlation could be two parallel but unconnected events. This is why observers are cautioned that two things while correlated must not be taken as indication of there being a causal link between the two. Such a link would be more like logic which connects or ligates two ideas or sequences. And example often quoted is about a time period where NY stock exchange showed the same pattern of rise and fall in numbers of sperm whales. Now there is unlikely to be any links, yukti or connection between the two events but they were perfectly correlated. I can look up the exact citation of the statistics book next week if you do not believe me. As you know I always speak the truth :-) I am not saying that the correlation you have demonstrated is not important but before investigating that one would have to see if the concept of vasya signs itself is of significance? Jyotish is full of so many factors and descriptors not all of which are really significant when held to the fire of actual testing. I hope any of my western astrology would not be offended but I see the same in their use of the asteroids which are thousands (someone told me approx 2500+) and in individual charts show up as significant but then add a few more charts and the significance gets less and less significant. Astrologer must walk the thin line between the desert (few factors) and the ocean (too many factors). When we describe the great field of jyotish we have no choice but to describe it factor by factor as that is how we express and understand. So, please do not think that I am trying to discourage you from writing your message and sharing your very interesting thoughts. But why leave it at that and not elaborate more, about vasya and its application and perhaps that would bring to light situations where the uccha and neecha are brought closer in some sense. For instance, whether uchcha or neecha, the planet remains the same and does not change its physical form. I have always felt uchcha-neecha akin to the pakshabala of moon, on a continuum, up and down, bright and dark -- based on the amount of light its same physical body reflects. Amavasya absorbs energy, purnima sends back the energy, expresses it. The moon does not change physically at all. I will leave it at that before some headmaster jumps on my case for exceeding the line-limit or something!! RR , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote: > > Dear RR ji, You said: > > You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do with the > > debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' and > an > > extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! > > Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? > > Please educate us some more. > Dear RR ji, I am happy that you have accepted it at least as > a 'correlation' Thank you for that. Let it be 'correlation' > or 'logic', if this understanding is useful to us, and at least > interests some (Thank you for the words 'extremely interesting > observation') then I am satisfied. I am teacher to none. We are > just sharing the knowledge and info we can get (from sources such as > classics or otherwise). I won't like to play the role of best > knowledgeable fellow in this forum, since I know well that there are > many far better than me in this forum, and would love to humbly bow > to their knowledge and also would love to remain the humble student > of astrology, to learn what ever they can teach me and share with me, > including yourself. If we can find such beautiful correlations for > all the Vasya signs (with no exception!), it indicates that, > originally the saints considered these Rasis as vasya rasis probably > only after understanding this fact. I hope many will consider this as > a logically correct observation. > Ok. Here again the word 'logically correct' popes up! We should do > some thing about this word 'Logic'! The dictionary says: Logic = > science of reasoning, correctly reasoned, chain of reasoning, a > particular system or method of reasoning. etc. It originated from the > Greek word 'logikos'. 'logos' means knowledge. What is the exact > meaning of 'logikos'? Somebody should teach me. But in > essence 'anything correctly reasoned' or 'anything that follows a > particular system or method of reasoning' is 'logical'. All reasoning > is nothing but the correlation of cause and effect. Reasoning > means 'trying to reach conclusions by connected thought'. Is > that 'correlation' is not part of that? > Coming to Sanskrit the word used is 'Yukti'. The traditional > definition is that 'Unakteeti Yukti' meaning 'anything that > correlates' could be termed 'Yukti'. While translation the word Yukti > is replaced with the words 'reasoning' or 'logically correct > arguments' or simply 'logic'. > Thus if we consider English or Sanskrit the logic has > indicates 'connecting ideas', or 'co-relating ideas'. > Actually the word 'Yukti' has a far beyond connotation, than the > mere logical reasoning (which is a duty of the top layer i.e. > consciousness - if we consider the 3 layers pointed to by Froid - > conscious, semi conscious and unconscious mind). As said earlier the > word 'Yukti' ('Unakteeti Yukti') means 'anything that correlates'. > This phenomenon is happening not only in the top layer of mind i.e. > consciousness, but also in the semi conscious and unconscious mind as > well!! This constant process of correlating and connecting > ideas/concepts/sensations/perceptions is happening in all the layers > of the mind all the time!! When this process popes up from the semi- > conscious mind to the rest taking conscious mind in the night, we > call it 'dream'! All of us may have felt, how the unrelated ideas > that pass through our conscious mind, and beautifully correlated and > presented in the dream, like a Cinema, happening right before our > eyes!! This 'correlating and connecting of anything that goes into > the mind' is not limited to conscious and unconscious mind alone - it > is there in work in the unconscious mind as well. At times we get a > proof of it, when some 'intuition' or 'revelation' popes up!! It was > not there in conscious, or semiconscious, but see...! How on a sudden > idea came out of our mind..!! It was there within!! Hiding there in > the unconscious!! Thus this process of correlating and connecting, > which the Rishis has correctly termed 'Yukti' is present there in all > the three layers of mind, and indicates the constant process of that > happens - always! within! > Yes, if we translate and use the word logic instead of Yukti, > then...yes..logic is part of all the tree layers of mind, and it is > nothing but the process of correlating and connecting ideas. Even if > we limit the meaning of the word 'logic' to 'reasoning that is > happening in the conscious mind' alone, then also 'correlating and > connecting' is there, since reasoning it self means 'creating and > connecting of ideas'. > These are just passing thoughts. But never mind. They are not > important. If you feel that there seems to exist a correlation in > that concept of Vasya signs, I am satisfied, and is thankful to you > for appreciating that observation. > But at the end, should we dip ourselves into the meaning of these > words, as long as what we intend to convey is getting conveyed? Words > are for communication, and if the ideas put forward is understood by > the other person and generates interest in him, is that not enough? > Yes, if you like to call it just like to call it `a correlation' > rather than `logic', ok, then as well, I have no objection - It was > just a word used to convey an idea. > Love, > Sreenadh > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > I am sorry dear but I must be the party-pooper in this thread :-( > > > > You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do with > the > > debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' and > an > > extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! > > > > Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? > > > > Please educate us some more. > > > > Much appreciated > > > > RR > > > > , "sreesog" <sreesog@> > > wrote: > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > As per astrological classics, for: > > > Aries - Leo and Scorpio > > > Taurus - Cancer and Libra > > > Gemini - Virgo > > > Cancer - Scorpio and Sagittarius > > > Leo - Libra > > > Virgo - Gemini and Pisces > > > Libra - Virgo and Capricorn > > > Scorpio - Cancer > > > Sagittarius - Pisces > > > Capricorn - Aquarius and Aries > > > Aquarius - Aries > > > Pisces - Capricorn > > > are Vasya signs. > > > What is the logic behind this concept? Let us try to understand. > > > > > > For Aries, Leo and Scorpio are Vasya Signs. Why? > > > Leo - the lord of Leo gets exalted in Aries. > > > Scorpio - Aries and Scorpio are ruled by the same planet. > > > Rule : (1) If any other planet gets exalted in the sign then > > the > > > sign ruled by that planet could be a Vasya sign. > > > Rule : (2) If the lord of 2 signs are the same, the second > sign > > > could be a Vasya sign for the first and vice-versa. > > > > > > For Taurus, Libra and Cancer are Vasya signs. Why? > > > Cancer - Rule (1) applies here. Lord of Cancer Moon is > exalted > > > in Taurus. > > > Libra - Rule (1) applies here. Taurus and Libra are ruled by > > the > > > same planet Ve. > > > > > > For Gemini, Virgo is Vasya sign. Why? > > > Virgo - Rule (2) applies here. Gemini and Virgo are ruled by > > the > > > same planet. > > > > > > For Cancer, Scorpio and Sagittarius are Vasya signs. Why? > > > Scorpio - Is there any connection? The lord of Cancer gets > > > debilitated in Scorpio!! Both Cancer and Scorpio are signs that > > > represent reptiles - i.e. Sareesripa signs. The lord of Scorpio > > gets > > > debilitated in Cancer. So there is a very strong connection > between > > > the two signs. > > > Rule : (3) The sign in which the lord of the first > considered > > > sign gets debilitated could be a Vasya sign. (Here Mo gets > > > debilitated in Scorpio) > > > Sagittarius - Rule (1) applies here. The lord of Sagittarius > > > gets exalted in Cancer. > > > > > > For Leo, Libra is Vasya sign. Why? > > > Lira - Rule (3) applies here. Lord of Leo Sun gets > debilitated > > in > > > Leo. > > > > > > For Virgo, Gemini and Pisces are Vasya Signs. Why? > > > Gemini - Rule (2) applies. Gemini and Virgo are ruled by the > > same > > > planet Me. > > > Pisces - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Virgo Me gets debilitated > in > > > Piaces. > > > > > > For Libra, Virgo and Capricorn are Vasya signs. Why? > > > Virgo - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Libra gets debilitated in > > > Virgo. > > > Capricorn - Rule (1) applies. Lord of Capricorn Sa gets > > exalted > > > in Libra. > > > > > > For Scorpio, Cancer is the Vasya sign. Why? > > > Cancer - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Scorpio Ma gets > debilitated > > in > > > Cancer. > > > > > > For Sagittarius, Pisces is Vasya sign. Why? > > > Pisces - Rule (2) applies. Sagittarius and Pisces are ruled > by > > > the same planet Ju. > > > > > > For Capricorn, Aquarius and Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > > > Aquarius - Rule (2) applies. Capricorn and Aquarius are > ruled > > by > > > the same planet Sa. > > > Aries - Rule (1) applies. The lord of Aries gets exalted in > > > Capricorn. > > > > > > For Aquarius, Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > > > Aquarius - Rule (3) applies. The lord of Aquarius gets > > > debilitated in Aries. > > > > > > Fro Pisces, Sagittarius is the Vasya sign. Why? > > > Sagittarius - Rule (2) applies. Pisces and Sagittarius are > > ruled > > > by the same planet. > > > > > > Lesson to remember: The sages never tell a thing without reason > > and > > > Logic!! We just need to search and find it out!! > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Sreenadhji, I only ask about typos when I cannot understand something because the way it was spelled confusingly and the spelling made an important difference. Your careful revisiting and erratum was much appreciated, but really you should not have bothered about it. You were very clear in what you wrote :-) RR , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote: > > Dear RR ji, > On the second reading of my own mail, I found that I have made some > typos in it. The CAPS indicate the corrections. > 1) This 'correlating and connecting of anything that goes into > the mind' is not limited to conscious and SEMI-conscious mind > alone - it is there in work in the unconscious mind as well. > 2) froid (SIGMUND FREUD - The famous German Psychologist) > 2) Even if we limit the meaning of the word 'logic' to 'reasoning > that is happening in the conscious mind' alone, then > also 'CORRELATING and connecting' is there, since reasoning it > self means 'correlating and connecting of ideas'. > I request all to apply these corrections as well, while reading my > previous mail. > Love, > Sreenadh > > , "Sreenadh" <sreesog@> > wrote: > > > > Dear RR ji, You said: > > > You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do with > the > > > debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' > and > > an > > > extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! > > > Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? > > > Please educate us some more. > > Dear RR ji, I am happy that you have accepted it at least as > > a 'correlation' Thank you for that. Let it be 'correlation' > > or 'logic', if this understanding is useful to us, and at least > > interests some (Thank you for the words 'extremely interesting > > observation') then I am satisfied. I am teacher to none. We are > > just sharing the knowledge and info we can get (from sources such > as > > classics or otherwise). I won't like to play the role of best > > knowledgeable fellow in this forum, since I know well that there > are > > many far better than me in this forum, and would love to humbly bow > > to their knowledge and also would love to remain the humble > student > > of astrology, to learn what ever they can teach me and share with > me, > > including yourself. If we can find such beautiful correlations for > > all the Vasya signs (with no exception!), it indicates that, > > originally the saints considered these Rasis as vasya rasis > probably > > only after understanding this fact. I hope many will consider this > as > > a logically correct observation. > > Ok. Here again the word 'logically correct' popes up! We should do > > some thing about this word 'Logic'! The dictionary says: Logic = > > science of reasoning, correctly reasoned, chain of reasoning, a > > particular system or method of reasoning. etc. It originated from > the > > Greek word 'logikos'. 'logos' means knowledge. What is the exact > > meaning of 'logikos'? Somebody should teach me. But in > > essence 'anything correctly reasoned' or 'anything that follows a > > particular system or method of reasoning' is 'logical'. All > reasoning > > is nothing but the correlation of cause and effect. Reasoning > > means 'trying to reach conclusions by connected thought'. Is > > that 'correlation' is not part of that? > > Coming to Sanskrit the word used is 'Yukti'. The traditional > > definition is that 'Unakteeti Yukti' meaning 'anything that > > correlates' could be termed 'Yukti'. While translation the word > Yukti > > is replaced with the words 'reasoning' or 'logically correct > > arguments' or simply 'logic'. > > Thus if we consider English or Sanskrit the logic has > > indicates 'connecting ideas', or 'co-relating ideas'. > > Actually the word 'Yukti' has a far beyond connotation, than the > > mere logical reasoning (which is a duty of the top layer i.e. > > consciousness - if we consider the 3 layers pointed to by Froid - > > conscious, semi conscious and unconscious mind). As said earlier > the > > word 'Yukti' ('Unakteeti Yukti') means 'anything that correlates'. > > This phenomenon is happening not only in the top layer of mind i.e. > > consciousness, but also in the semi conscious and unconscious mind > as > > well!! This constant process of correlating and connecting > > ideas/concepts/sensations/perceptions is happening in all the > layers > > of the mind all the time!! When this process popes up from the semi- > > conscious mind to the rest taking conscious mind in the night, we > > call it 'dream'! All of us may have felt, how the unrelated ideas > > that pass through our conscious mind, and beautifully correlated > and > > presented in the dream, like a Cinema, happening right before our > > eyes!! This 'correlating and connecting of anything that goes into > > the mind' is not limited to conscious and unconscious mind alone - > it > > is there in work in the unconscious mind as well. At times we get a > > proof of it, when some 'intuition' or 'revelation' popes up!! It > was > > not there in conscious, or semiconscious, but see...! How on a > sudden > > idea came out of our mind..!! It was there within!! Hiding there in > > the unconscious!! Thus this process of correlating and connecting, > > which the Rishis has correctly termed 'Yukti' is present there in > all > > the three layers of mind, and indicates the constant process of > that > > happens - always! within! > > Yes, if we translate and use the word logic instead of Yukti, > > then...yes..logic is part of all the tree layers of mind, and it is > > nothing but the process of correlating and connecting ideas. Even > if > > we limit the meaning of the word 'logic' to 'reasoning that is > > happening in the conscious mind' alone, then also 'correlating and > > connecting' is there, since reasoning it self means 'creating and > > connecting of ideas'. > > These are just passing thoughts. But never mind. They are not > > important. If you feel that there seems to exist a correlation in > > that concept of Vasya signs, I am satisfied, and is thankful to you > > for appreciating that observation. > > But at the end, should we dip ourselves into the meaning of > these > > words, as long as what we intend to convey is getting conveyed? > Words > > are for communication, and if the ideas put forward is understood > by > > the other person and generates interest in him, is that not enough? > > Yes, if you like to call it just like to call it `a correlation' > > rather than `logic', ok, then as well, I have no objection - It was > > just a word used to convey an idea. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > I am sorry dear but I must be the party-pooper in this thread :- ( > > > > > > You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do with > > the > > > debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' > and > > an > > > extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! > > > > > > Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? > > > > > > Please educate us some more. > > > > > > Much appreciated > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , "sreesog" <sreesog@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > As per astrological classics, for: > > > > Aries - Leo and Scorpio > > > > Taurus - Cancer and Libra > > > > Gemini - Virgo > > > > Cancer - Scorpio and Sagittarius > > > > Leo - Libra > > > > Virgo - Gemini and Pisces > > > > Libra - Virgo and Capricorn > > > > Scorpio - Cancer > > > > Sagittarius - Pisces > > > > Capricorn - Aquarius and Aries > > > > Aquarius - Aries > > > > Pisces - Capricorn > > > > are Vasya signs. > > > > What is the logic behind this concept? Let us try to > understand. > > > > > > > > For Aries, Leo and Scorpio are Vasya Signs. Why? > > > > Leo - the lord of Leo gets exalted in Aries. > > > > Scorpio - Aries and Scorpio are ruled by the same planet. > > > > Rule : (1) If any other planet gets exalted in the sign > then > > > the > > > > sign ruled by that planet could be a Vasya sign. > > > > Rule : (2) If the lord of 2 signs are the same, the second > > sign > > > > could be a Vasya sign for the first and vice-versa. > > > > > > > > For Taurus, Libra and Cancer are Vasya signs. Why? > > > > Cancer - Rule (1) applies here. Lord of Cancer Moon is > > exalted > > > > in Taurus. > > > > Libra - Rule (1) applies here. Taurus and Libra are ruled > by > > > the > > > > same planet Ve. > > > > > > > > For Gemini, Virgo is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Virgo - Rule (2) applies here. Gemini and Virgo are ruled > by > > > the > > > > same planet. > > > > > > > > For Cancer, Scorpio and Sagittarius are Vasya signs. Why? > > > > Scorpio - Is there any connection? The lord of Cancer gets > > > > debilitated in Scorpio!! Both Cancer and Scorpio are signs that > > > > represent reptiles - i.e. Sareesripa signs. The lord of Scorpio > > > gets > > > > debilitated in Cancer. So there is a very strong connection > > between > > > > the two signs. > > > > Rule : (3) The sign in which the lord of the first > > considered > > > > sign gets debilitated could be a Vasya sign. (Here Mo gets > > > > debilitated in Scorpio) > > > > Sagittarius - Rule (1) applies here. The lord of > Sagittarius > > > > gets exalted in Cancer. > > > > > > > > For Leo, Libra is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Lira - Rule (3) applies here. Lord of Leo Sun gets > > debilitated > > > in > > > > Leo. > > > > > > > > For Virgo, Gemini and Pisces are Vasya Signs. Why? > > > > Gemini - Rule (2) applies. Gemini and Virgo are ruled by > the > > > same > > > > planet Me. > > > > Pisces - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Virgo Me gets > debilitated > > in > > > > Piaces. > > > > > > > > For Libra, Virgo and Capricorn are Vasya signs. Why? > > > > Virgo - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Libra gets debilitated > in > > > > Virgo. > > > > Capricorn - Rule (1) applies. Lord of Capricorn Sa gets > > > exalted > > > > in Libra. > > > > > > > > For Scorpio, Cancer is the Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Cancer - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Scorpio Ma gets > > debilitated > > > in > > > > Cancer. > > > > > > > > For Sagittarius, Pisces is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Pisces - Rule (2) applies. Sagittarius and Pisces are ruled > > by > > > > the same planet Ju. > > > > > > > > For Capricorn, Aquarius and Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Aquarius - Rule (2) applies. Capricorn and Aquarius are > > ruled > > > by > > > > the same planet Sa. > > > > Aries - Rule (1) applies. The lord of Aries gets exalted > in > > > > Capricorn. > > > > > > > > For Aquarius, Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Aquarius - Rule (3) applies. The lord of Aquarius gets > > > > debilitated in Aries. > > > > > > > > Fro Pisces, Sagittarius is the Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Sagittarius - Rule (2) applies. Pisces and Sagittarius are > > > ruled > > > > by the same planet. > > > > > > > > Lesson to remember: The sages never tell a thing without > reason > > > and > > > > Logic!! We just need to search and find it out!! > > > > Love, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 Dear RR ji, The straight meaning of the word 'correlation' is simply 'mutual relation'. All other meaning comes from the context in which it is used, which we call 'contextual meanings'. I know that you know all these. The 2 related points that comes to mind is that: 1) Many words may have more than one meaning. 2) The word with a particular meaning may get many contextual meanings. Going to the philosophical level, 3) The meaning of the word actually resides in the mind of the speaker and the listener, and not in that word itself!! All these gives the language its beauty. Yes, I know all these are known to you as well. Yes, but for sure you want to enjoy playing with me, with arguments. But why can we twist it to Astrology rather than to Linguistics (and probably from there to Literature). > I will leave it at that before some headmaster > jumps on my case for exceeding the line-limit or something!! Yes, you r right! It is already happened!! After seeing the Hinglish English controversy, I too feel the same. But you see I would like to support the weak, and you are very strong I know in arguments and knowledge (and I really appreciate it), and just to add some joy to this game I would be on the side of the weak only. It is just friendly fun, and please don't take these comments as personal or as offensive. My regards to your knowledge and enthusiasm for the cause of astrology, yes, as well to this great co-coordinating ability, I wonder how difficult it would be maintain such a big (Actually the biggest I should say) forum for astrology where more than 40 messages are posted a day, I also wonder how you find time to post mail on so many issues after taking pain staking studies to know and understand the depth of that issue, and gives a simpler view to the general public. Yes, these are all passing thoughts and I bow before your efforts for the cause of astrology. Love, Sreenadh , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Sreenathji, > > I will not let you run with it ;-) > No personal offence intended, so please do not. > I agree that yukti and yugma indicate connectivity and oneness but > correlation is not the same as connection! > Correlation could be two parallel but unconnected events. This is why > observers are cautioned that two things while correlated must not be > taken as indication of there being a causal link between the two. > Such a link would be more like logic which connects or ligates two > ideas or sequences. > > And example often quoted is about a time period where NY stock > exchange showed the same pattern of rise and fall in numbers of sperm > whales. Now there is unlikely to be any links, yukti or connection > between the two events but they were perfectly correlated. I can look > up the exact citation of the statistics book next week if you do not > believe me. As you know I always speak the truth :-) > > I am not saying that the correlation you have demonstrated is not > important but before investigating that one would have to see if the > concept of vasya signs itself is of significance? Jyotish is full of > so many factors and descriptors not all of which are really > significant when held to the fire of actual testing. > > I hope any of my western astrology would not be offended but I see > the same in their use of the asteroids which are thousands (someone > told me approx 2500+) and in individual charts show up as significant > but then add a few more charts and the significance gets less and > less significant. > > Astrologer must walk the thin line between the desert (few factors) > and the ocean (too many factors). When we describe the great field of > jyotish we have no choice but to describe it factor by factor as that > is how we express and understand. So, please do not think that I am > trying to discourage you from writing your message and sharing your > very interesting thoughts. But why leave it at that and not elaborate > more, about vasya and its application and perhaps that would bring to > light situations where the uccha and neecha are brought closer in > some sense. For instance, whether uchcha or neecha, the planet > remains the same and does not change its physical form. > > I have always felt uchcha-neecha akin to the pakshabala of moon, on a > continuum, up and down, bright and dark -- based on the amount of > light its same physical body reflects. Amavasya absorbs energy, > purnima sends back the energy, expresses it. The moon does not change > physically at all. I will leave it at that before some headmaster > jumps on my case for exceeding the line-limit or something!! > > RR > > , "Sreenadh" <sreesog@> > wrote: > > > > Dear RR ji, You said: > > > You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do with > the > > > debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' > and > > an > > > extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! > > > Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? > > > Please educate us some more. > > Dear RR ji, I am happy that you have accepted it at least as > > a 'correlation' Thank you for that. Let it be 'correlation' > > or 'logic', if this understanding is useful to us, and at least > > interests some (Thank you for the words 'extremely interesting > > observation') then I am satisfied. I am teacher to none. We are > > just sharing the knowledge and info we can get (from sources such > as > > classics or otherwise). I won't like to play the role of best > > knowledgeable fellow in this forum, since I know well that there > are > > many far better than me in this forum, and would love to humbly bow > > to their knowledge and also would love to remain the humble > student > > of astrology, to learn what ever they can teach me and share with > me, > > including yourself. If we can find such beautiful correlations for > > all the Vasya signs (with no exception!), it indicates that, > > originally the saints considered these Rasis as vasya rasis > probably > > only after understanding this fact. I hope many will consider this > as > > a logically correct observation. > > Ok. Here again the word 'logically correct' popes up! We should do > > some thing about this word 'Logic'! The dictionary says: Logic = > > science of reasoning, correctly reasoned, chain of reasoning, a > > particular system or method of reasoning. etc. It originated from > the > > Greek word 'logikos'. 'logos' means knowledge. What is the exact > > meaning of 'logikos'? Somebody should teach me. But in > > essence 'anything correctly reasoned' or 'anything that follows a > > particular system or method of reasoning' is 'logical'. All > reasoning > > is nothing but the correlation of cause and effect. Reasoning > > means 'trying to reach conclusions by connected thought'. Is > > that 'correlation' is not part of that? > > Coming to Sanskrit the word used is 'Yukti'. The traditional > > definition is that 'Unakteeti Yukti' meaning 'anything that > > correlates' could be termed 'Yukti'. While translation the word > Yukti > > is replaced with the words 'reasoning' or 'logically correct > > arguments' or simply 'logic'. > > Thus if we consider English or Sanskrit the logic has > > indicates 'connecting ideas', or 'co-relating ideas'. > > Actually the word 'Yukti' has a far beyond connotation, than the > > mere logical reasoning (which is a duty of the top layer i.e. > > consciousness - if we consider the 3 layers pointed to by Froid - > > conscious, semi conscious and unconscious mind). As said earlier > the > > word 'Yukti' ('Unakteeti Yukti') means 'anything that correlates'. > > This phenomenon is happening not only in the top layer of mind i.e. > > consciousness, but also in the semi conscious and unconscious mind > as > > well!! This constant process of correlating and connecting > > ideas/concepts/sensations/perceptions is happening in all the > layers > > of the mind all the time!! When this process popes up from the semi- > > conscious mind to the rest taking conscious mind in the night, we > > call it 'dream'! All of us may have felt, how the unrelated ideas > > that pass through our conscious mind, and beautifully correlated > and > > presented in the dream, like a Cinema, happening right before our > > eyes!! This 'correlating and connecting of anything that goes into > > the mind' is not limited to conscious and unconscious mind alone - > it > > is there in work in the unconscious mind as well. At times we get a > > proof of it, when some 'intuition' or 'revelation' popes up!! It > was > > not there in conscious, or semiconscious, but see...! How on a > sudden > > idea came out of our mind..!! It was there within!! Hiding there in > > the unconscious!! Thus this process of correlating and connecting, > > which the Rishis has correctly termed 'Yukti' is present there in > all > > the three layers of mind, and indicates the constant process of > that > > happens - always! within! > > Yes, if we translate and use the word logic instead of Yukti, > > then...yes..logic is part of all the tree layers of mind, and it is > > nothing but the process of correlating and connecting ideas. Even > if > > we limit the meaning of the word 'logic' to 'reasoning that is > > happening in the conscious mind' alone, then also 'correlating and > > connecting' is there, since reasoning it self means 'creating and > > connecting of ideas'. > > These are just passing thoughts. But never mind. They are not > > important. If you feel that there seems to exist a correlation in > > that concept of Vasya signs, I am satisfied, and is thankful to you > > for appreciating that observation. > > But at the end, should we dip ourselves into the meaning of > these > > words, as long as what we intend to convey is getting conveyed? > Words > > are for communication, and if the ideas put forward is understood > by > > the other person and generates interest in him, is that not enough? > > Yes, if you like to call it just like to call it `a correlation' > > rather than `logic', ok, then as well, I have no objection - It was > > just a word used to convey an idea. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > I am sorry dear but I must be the party-pooper in this thread :- ( > > > > > > You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do with > > the > > > debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' > and > > an > > > extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! > > > > > > Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? > > > > > > Please educate us some more. > > > > > > Much appreciated > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , "sreesog" <sreesog@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > As per astrological classics, for: > > > > Aries - Leo and Scorpio > > > > Taurus - Cancer and Libra > > > > Gemini - Virgo > > > > Cancer - Scorpio and Sagittarius > > > > Leo - Libra > > > > Virgo - Gemini and Pisces > > > > Libra - Virgo and Capricorn > > > > Scorpio - Cancer > > > > Sagittarius - Pisces > > > > Capricorn - Aquarius and Aries > > > > Aquarius - Aries > > > > Pisces - Capricorn > > > > are Vasya signs. > > > > What is the logic behind this concept? Let us try to > understand. > > > > > > > > For Aries, Leo and Scorpio are Vasya Signs. Why? > > > > Leo - the lord of Leo gets exalted in Aries. > > > > Scorpio - Aries and Scorpio are ruled by the same planet. > > > > Rule : (1) If any other planet gets exalted in the sign > then > > > the > > > > sign ruled by that planet could be a Vasya sign. > > > > Rule : (2) If the lord of 2 signs are the same, the second > > sign > > > > could be a Vasya sign for the first and vice-versa. > > > > > > > > For Taurus, Libra and Cancer are Vasya signs. Why? > > > > Cancer - Rule (1) applies here. Lord of Cancer Moon is > > exalted > > > > in Taurus. > > > > Libra - Rule (1) applies here. Taurus and Libra are ruled > by > > > the > > > > same planet Ve. > > > > > > > > For Gemini, Virgo is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Virgo - Rule (2) applies here. Gemini and Virgo are ruled > by > > > the > > > > same planet. > > > > > > > > For Cancer, Scorpio and Sagittarius are Vasya signs. Why? > > > > Scorpio - Is there any connection? The lord of Cancer gets > > > > debilitated in Scorpio!! Both Cancer and Scorpio are signs that > > > > represent reptiles - i.e. Sareesripa signs. The lord of Scorpio > > > gets > > > > debilitated in Cancer. So there is a very strong connection > > between > > > > the two signs. > > > > Rule : (3) The sign in which the lord of the first > > considered > > > > sign gets debilitated could be a Vasya sign. (Here Mo gets > > > > debilitated in Scorpio) > > > > Sagittarius - Rule (1) applies here. The lord of > Sagittarius > > > > gets exalted in Cancer. > > > > > > > > For Leo, Libra is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Lira - Rule (3) applies here. Lord of Leo Sun gets > > debilitated > > > in > > > > Leo. > > > > > > > > For Virgo, Gemini and Pisces are Vasya Signs. Why? > > > > Gemini - Rule (2) applies. Gemini and Virgo are ruled by > the > > > same > > > > planet Me. > > > > Pisces - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Virgo Me gets > debilitated > > in > > > > Piaces. > > > > > > > > For Libra, Virgo and Capricorn are Vasya signs. Why? > > > > Virgo - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Libra gets debilitated > in > > > > Virgo. > > > > Capricorn - Rule (1) applies. Lord of Capricorn Sa gets > > > exalted > > > > in Libra. > > > > > > > > For Scorpio, Cancer is the Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Cancer - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Scorpio Ma gets > > debilitated > > > in > > > > Cancer. > > > > > > > > For Sagittarius, Pisces is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Pisces - Rule (2) applies. Sagittarius and Pisces are ruled > > by > > > > the same planet Ju. > > > > > > > > For Capricorn, Aquarius and Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Aquarius - Rule (2) applies. Capricorn and Aquarius are > > ruled > > > by > > > > the same planet Sa. > > > > Aries - Rule (1) applies. The lord of Aries gets exalted > in > > > > Capricorn. > > > > > > > > For Aquarius, Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Aquarius - Rule (3) applies. The lord of Aquarius gets > > > > debilitated in Aries. > > > > > > > > Fro Pisces, Sagittarius is the Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Sagittarius - Rule (2) applies. Pisces and Sagittarius are > > > ruled > > > > by the same planet. > > > > > > > > Lesson to remember: The sages never tell a thing without > reason > > > and > > > > Logic!! We just need to search and find it out!! > > > > Love, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 Dear RR ji, You said: > So, please do not think that I am > trying to discourage you from writing your message and sharing your > very interesting thoughts. Thanks a lot for that encouragement. > But why leave it at that and not elaborate > more, about vasya and its application Yes. I will, and just to clarify this point I am forwarding a mail I posted in another forum. Love, Sreenadh , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Sreenathji, > > I will not let you run with it ;-) > No personal offence intended, so please do not. > I agree that yukti and yugma indicate connectivity and oneness but > correlation is not the same as connection! > Correlation could be two parallel but unconnected events. This is why > observers are cautioned that two things while correlated must not be > taken as indication of there being a causal link between the two. > Such a link would be more like logic which connects or ligates two > ideas or sequences. > > And example often quoted is about a time period where NY stock > exchange showed the same pattern of rise and fall in numbers of sperm > whales. Now there is unlikely to be any links, yukti or connection > between the two events but they were perfectly correlated. I can look > up the exact citation of the statistics book next week if you do not > believe me. As you know I always speak the truth :-) > > I am not saying that the correlation you have demonstrated is not > important but before investigating that one would have to see if the > concept of vasya signs itself is of significance? Jyotish is full of > so many factors and descriptors not all of which are really > significant when held to the fire of actual testing. > > I hope any of my western astrology would not be offended but I see > the same in their use of the asteroids which are thousands (someone > told me approx 2500+) and in individual charts show up as significant > but then add a few more charts and the significance gets less and > less significant. > > Astrologer must walk the thin line between the desert (few factors) > and the ocean (too many factors). When we describe the great field of > jyotish we have no choice but to describe it factor by factor as that > is how we express and understand. So, please do not think that I am > trying to discourage you from writing your message and sharing your > very interesting thoughts. But why leave it at that and not elaborate > more, about vasya and its application and perhaps that would bring to > light situations where the uccha and neecha are brought closer in > some sense. For instance, whether uchcha or neecha, the planet > remains the same and does not change its physical form. > > I have always felt uchcha-neecha akin to the pakshabala of moon, on a > continuum, up and down, bright and dark -- based on the amount of > light its same physical body reflects. Amavasya absorbs energy, > purnima sends back the energy, expresses it. The moon does not change > physically at all. I will leave it at that before some headmaster > jumps on my case for exceeding the line-limit or something!! > > RR > > , "Sreenadh" <sreesog@> > wrote: > > > > Dear RR ji, You said: > > > You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do with > the > > > debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' > and > > an > > > extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! > > > Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? > > > Please educate us some more. > > Dear RR ji, I am happy that you have accepted it at least as > > a 'correlation' Thank you for that. Let it be 'correlation' > > or 'logic', if this understanding is useful to us, and at least > > interests some (Thank you for the words 'extremely interesting > > observation') then I am satisfied. I am teacher to none. We are > > just sharing the knowledge and info we can get (from sources such > as > > classics or otherwise). I won't like to play the role of best > > knowledgeable fellow in this forum, since I know well that there > are > > many far better than me in this forum, and would love to humbly bow > > to their knowledge and also would love to remain the humble > student > > of astrology, to learn what ever they can teach me and share with > me, > > including yourself. If we can find such beautiful correlations for > > all the Vasya signs (with no exception!), it indicates that, > > originally the saints considered these Rasis as vasya rasis > probably > > only after understanding this fact. I hope many will consider this > as > > a logically correct observation. > > Ok. Here again the word 'logically correct' popes up! We should do > > some thing about this word 'Logic'! The dictionary says: Logic = > > science of reasoning, correctly reasoned, chain of reasoning, a > > particular system or method of reasoning. etc. It originated from > the > > Greek word 'logikos'. 'logos' means knowledge. What is the exact > > meaning of 'logikos'? Somebody should teach me. But in > > essence 'anything correctly reasoned' or 'anything that follows a > > particular system or method of reasoning' is 'logical'. All > reasoning > > is nothing but the correlation of cause and effect. Reasoning > > means 'trying to reach conclusions by connected thought'. Is > > that 'correlation' is not part of that? > > Coming to Sanskrit the word used is 'Yukti'. The traditional > > definition is that 'Unakteeti Yukti' meaning 'anything that > > correlates' could be termed 'Yukti'. While translation the word > Yukti > > is replaced with the words 'reasoning' or 'logically correct > > arguments' or simply 'logic'. > > Thus if we consider English or Sanskrit the logic has > > indicates 'connecting ideas', or 'co-relating ideas'. > > Actually the word 'Yukti' has a far beyond connotation, than the > > mere logical reasoning (which is a duty of the top layer i.e. > > consciousness - if we consider the 3 layers pointed to by Froid - > > conscious, semi conscious and unconscious mind). As said earlier > the > > word 'Yukti' ('Unakteeti Yukti') means 'anything that correlates'. > > This phenomenon is happening not only in the top layer of mind i.e. > > consciousness, but also in the semi conscious and unconscious mind > as > > well!! This constant process of correlating and connecting > > ideas/concepts/sensations/perceptions is happening in all the > layers > > of the mind all the time!! When this process popes up from the semi- > > conscious mind to the rest taking conscious mind in the night, we > > call it 'dream'! All of us may have felt, how the unrelated ideas > > that pass through our conscious mind, and beautifully correlated > and > > presented in the dream, like a Cinema, happening right before our > > eyes!! This 'correlating and connecting of anything that goes into > > the mind' is not limited to conscious and unconscious mind alone - > it > > is there in work in the unconscious mind as well. At times we get a > > proof of it, when some 'intuition' or 'revelation' popes up!! It > was > > not there in conscious, or semiconscious, but see...! How on a > sudden > > idea came out of our mind..!! It was there within!! Hiding there in > > the unconscious!! Thus this process of correlating and connecting, > > which the Rishis has correctly termed 'Yukti' is present there in > all > > the three layers of mind, and indicates the constant process of > that > > happens - always! within! > > Yes, if we translate and use the word logic instead of Yukti, > > then...yes..logic is part of all the tree layers of mind, and it is > > nothing but the process of correlating and connecting ideas. Even > if > > we limit the meaning of the word 'logic' to 'reasoning that is > > happening in the conscious mind' alone, then also 'correlating and > > connecting' is there, since reasoning it self means 'creating and > > connecting of ideas'. > > These are just passing thoughts. But never mind. They are not > > important. If you feel that there seems to exist a correlation in > > that concept of Vasya signs, I am satisfied, and is thankful to you > > for appreciating that observation. > > But at the end, should we dip ourselves into the meaning of > these > > words, as long as what we intend to convey is getting conveyed? > Words > > are for communication, and if the ideas put forward is understood > by > > the other person and generates interest in him, is that not enough? > > Yes, if you like to call it just like to call it `a correlation' > > rather than `logic', ok, then as well, I have no objection - It was > > just a word used to convey an idea. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > I am sorry dear but I must be the party-pooper in this thread :- ( > > > > > > You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do with > > the > > > debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' > and > > an > > > extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! > > > > > > Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? > > > > > > Please educate us some more. > > > > > > Much appreciated > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , "sreesog" <sreesog@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > As per astrological classics, for: > > > > Aries - Leo and Scorpio > > > > Taurus - Cancer and Libra > > > > Gemini - Virgo > > > > Cancer - Scorpio and Sagittarius > > > > Leo - Libra > > > > Virgo - Gemini and Pisces > > > > Libra - Virgo and Capricorn > > > > Scorpio - Cancer > > > > Sagittarius - Pisces > > > > Capricorn - Aquarius and Aries > > > > Aquarius - Aries > > > > Pisces - Capricorn > > > > are Vasya signs. > > > > What is the logic behind this concept? Let us try to > understand. > > > > > > > > For Aries, Leo and Scorpio are Vasya Signs. Why? > > > > Leo - the lord of Leo gets exalted in Aries. > > > > Scorpio - Aries and Scorpio are ruled by the same planet. > > > > Rule : (1) If any other planet gets exalted in the sign > then > > > the > > > > sign ruled by that planet could be a Vasya sign. > > > > Rule : (2) If the lord of 2 signs are the same, the second > > sign > > > > could be a Vasya sign for the first and vice-versa. > > > > > > > > For Taurus, Libra and Cancer are Vasya signs. Why? > > > > Cancer - Rule (1) applies here. Lord of Cancer Moon is > > exalted > > > > in Taurus. > > > > Libra - Rule (1) applies here. Taurus and Libra are ruled > by > > > the > > > > same planet Ve. > > > > > > > > For Gemini, Virgo is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Virgo - Rule (2) applies here. Gemini and Virgo are ruled > by > > > the > > > > same planet. > > > > > > > > For Cancer, Scorpio and Sagittarius are Vasya signs. Why? > > > > Scorpio - Is there any connection? The lord of Cancer gets > > > > debilitated in Scorpio!! Both Cancer and Scorpio are signs that > > > > represent reptiles - i.e. Sareesripa signs. The lord of Scorpio > > > gets > > > > debilitated in Cancer. So there is a very strong connection > > between > > > > the two signs. > > > > Rule : (3) The sign in which the lord of the first > > considered > > > > sign gets debilitated could be a Vasya sign. (Here Mo gets > > > > debilitated in Scorpio) > > > > Sagittarius - Rule (1) applies here. The lord of > Sagittarius > > > > gets exalted in Cancer. > > > > > > > > For Leo, Libra is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Lira - Rule (3) applies here. Lord of Leo Sun gets > > debilitated > > > in > > > > Leo. > > > > > > > > For Virgo, Gemini and Pisces are Vasya Signs. Why? > > > > Gemini - Rule (2) applies. Gemini and Virgo are ruled by > the > > > same > > > > planet Me. > > > > Pisces - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Virgo Me gets > debilitated > > in > > > > Piaces. > > > > > > > > For Libra, Virgo and Capricorn are Vasya signs. Why? > > > > Virgo - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Libra gets debilitated > in > > > > Virgo. > > > > Capricorn - Rule (1) applies. Lord of Capricorn Sa gets > > > exalted > > > > in Libra. > > > > > > > > For Scorpio, Cancer is the Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Cancer - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Scorpio Ma gets > > debilitated > > > in > > > > Cancer. > > > > > > > > For Sagittarius, Pisces is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Pisces - Rule (2) applies. Sagittarius and Pisces are ruled > > by > > > > the same planet Ju. > > > > > > > > For Capricorn, Aquarius and Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Aquarius - Rule (2) applies. Capricorn and Aquarius are > > ruled > > > by > > > > the same planet Sa. > > > > Aries - Rule (1) applies. The lord of Aries gets exalted > in > > > > Capricorn. > > > > > > > > For Aquarius, Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Aquarius - Rule (3) applies. The lord of Aquarius gets > > > > debilitated in Aries. > > > > > > > > Fro Pisces, Sagittarius is the Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Sagittarius - Rule (2) applies. Pisces and Sagittarius are > > > ruled > > > > by the same planet. > > > > > > > > Lesson to remember: The sages never tell a thing without > reason > > > and > > > > Logic!! We just need to search and find it out!! > > > > Love, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 Dear RR ji, In the previous mails I forgot one thing. Sorry. Thanks for the nice mail. I read it 2 or 3 times. I really appreciate it, and hopes to see many such mails from you. Thanks. There are many statements that really attracted my attention: 1) > Jyotish is full of > so many factors and descriptors not all of which are really > significant when held to the fire of actual testing. 2) > Astrologer must walk the thin line between the desert (few factors) > and the ocean (too many factors). When we describe the great field > of jyotish we have no choice but to describe it factor by factor > as that is how we express and understand. I love those, statements. Thanks. I also happened to saw the following statement by Prashant ji: > but for today's mail on Vasya i rarely seen you discuss astrology > or related comments just critisize, make fun, draw the drift? > what else can u call HYPOCRACY. it is useful if comments are > constructive as today on Vasya. and some debate thant just to > show how arragont you are. I am a new member of this group, and just haven't read much mails by RR ji. But for sure I have seen many of his articles here and there some in the files section of this forum and have a different opinion. Yes, of course I agree to the fact that, TODAYS MAIL BY RR JI ON VASYA IS REALLY CONSTRUCTIVE, and I have NO OBJECTION against it. I would request Prashant ji and RR ji to leave this issue here itself and move on to astrology. My regards and respect to both of them. Love, Sreenadh , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Sreenathji, > > I will not let you run with it ;-) > No personal offence intended, so please do not. > I agree that yukti and yugma indicate connectivity and oneness but > correlation is not the same as connection! > Correlation could be two parallel but unconnected events. This is why > observers are cautioned that two things while correlated must not be > taken as indication of there being a causal link between the two. > Such a link would be more like logic which connects or ligates two > ideas or sequences. > > And example often quoted is about a time period where NY stock > exchange showed the same pattern of rise and fall in numbers of sperm > whales. Now there is unlikely to be any links, yukti or connection > between the two events but they were perfectly correlated. I can look > up the exact citation of the statistics book next week if you do not > believe me. As you know I always speak the truth :-) > > I am not saying that the correlation you have demonstrated is not > important but before investigating that one would have to see if the > concept of vasya signs itself is of significance? Jyotish is full of > so many factors and descriptors not all of which are really > significant when held to the fire of actual testing. > > I hope any of my western astrology would not be offended but I see > the same in their use of the asteroids which are thousands (someone > told me approx 2500+) and in individual charts show up as significant > but then add a few more charts and the significance gets less and > less significant. > > Astrologer must walk the thin line between the desert (few factors) > and the ocean (too many factors). When we describe the great field of > jyotish we have no choice but to describe it factor by factor as that > is how we express and understand. So, please do not think that I am > trying to discourage you from writing your message and sharing your > very interesting thoughts. But why leave it at that and not elaborate > more, about vasya and its application and perhaps that would bring to > light situations where the uccha and neecha are brought closer in > some sense. For instance, whether uchcha or neecha, the planet > remains the same and does not change its physical form. > > I have always felt uchcha-neecha akin to the pakshabala of moon, on a > continuum, up and down, bright and dark -- based on the amount of > light its same physical body reflects. Amavasya absorbs energy, > purnima sends back the energy, expresses it. The moon does not change > physically at all. I will leave it at that before some headmaster > jumps on my case for exceeding the line-limit or something!! > > RR > > , "Sreenadh" <sreesog@> > wrote: > > > > Dear RR ji, You said: > > > You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do with > the > > > debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' > and > > an > > > extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! > > > Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? > > > Please educate us some more. > > Dear RR ji, I am happy that you have accepted it at least as > > a 'correlation' Thank you for that. Let it be 'correlation' > > or 'logic', if this understanding is useful to us, and at least > > interests some (Thank you for the words 'extremely interesting > > observation') then I am satisfied. I am teacher to none. We are > > just sharing the knowledge and info we can get (from sources such > as > > classics or otherwise). I won't like to play the role of best > > knowledgeable fellow in this forum, since I know well that there > are > > many far better than me in this forum, and would love to humbly bow > > to their knowledge and also would love to remain the humble > student > > of astrology, to learn what ever they can teach me and share with > me, > > including yourself. If we can find such beautiful correlations for > > all the Vasya signs (with no exception!), it indicates that, > > originally the saints considered these Rasis as vasya rasis > probably > > only after understanding this fact. I hope many will consider this > as > > a logically correct observation. > > Ok. Here again the word 'logically correct' popes up! We should do > > some thing about this word 'Logic'! The dictionary says: Logic = > > science of reasoning, correctly reasoned, chain of reasoning, a > > particular system or method of reasoning. etc. It originated from > the > > Greek word 'logikos'. 'logos' means knowledge. What is the exact > > meaning of 'logikos'? Somebody should teach me. But in > > essence 'anything correctly reasoned' or 'anything that follows a > > particular system or method of reasoning' is 'logical'. All > reasoning > > is nothing but the correlation of cause and effect. Reasoning > > means 'trying to reach conclusions by connected thought'. Is > > that 'correlation' is not part of that? > > Coming to Sanskrit the word used is 'Yukti'. The traditional > > definition is that 'Unakteeti Yukti' meaning 'anything that > > correlates' could be termed 'Yukti'. While translation the word > Yukti > > is replaced with the words 'reasoning' or 'logically correct > > arguments' or simply 'logic'. > > Thus if we consider English or Sanskrit the logic has > > indicates 'connecting ideas', or 'co-relating ideas'. > > Actually the word 'Yukti' has a far beyond connotation, than the > > mere logical reasoning (which is a duty of the top layer i.e. > > consciousness - if we consider the 3 layers pointed to by Froid - > > conscious, semi conscious and unconscious mind). As said earlier > the > > word 'Yukti' ('Unakteeti Yukti') means 'anything that correlates'. > > This phenomenon is happening not only in the top layer of mind i.e. > > consciousness, but also in the semi conscious and unconscious mind > as > > well!! This constant process of correlating and connecting > > ideas/concepts/sensations/perceptions is happening in all the > layers > > of the mind all the time!! When this process popes up from the semi- > > conscious mind to the rest taking conscious mind in the night, we > > call it 'dream'! All of us may have felt, how the unrelated ideas > > that pass through our conscious mind, and beautifully correlated > and > > presented in the dream, like a Cinema, happening right before our > > eyes!! This 'correlating and connecting of anything that goes into > > the mind' is not limited to conscious and unconscious mind alone - > it > > is there in work in the unconscious mind as well. At times we get a > > proof of it, when some 'intuition' or 'revelation' popes up!! It > was > > not there in conscious, or semiconscious, but see...! How on a > sudden > > idea came out of our mind..!! It was there within!! Hiding there in > > the unconscious!! Thus this process of correlating and connecting, > > which the Rishis has correctly termed 'Yukti' is present there in > all > > the three layers of mind, and indicates the constant process of > that > > happens - always! within! > > Yes, if we translate and use the word logic instead of Yukti, > > then...yes..logic is part of all the tree layers of mind, and it is > > nothing but the process of correlating and connecting ideas. Even > if > > we limit the meaning of the word 'logic' to 'reasoning that is > > happening in the conscious mind' alone, then also 'correlating and > > connecting' is there, since reasoning it self means 'creating and > > connecting of ideas'. > > These are just passing thoughts. But never mind. They are not > > important. If you feel that there seems to exist a correlation in > > that concept of Vasya signs, I am satisfied, and is thankful to you > > for appreciating that observation. > > But at the end, should we dip ourselves into the meaning of > these > > words, as long as what we intend to convey is getting conveyed? > Words > > are for communication, and if the ideas put forward is understood > by > > the other person and generates interest in him, is that not enough? > > Yes, if you like to call it just like to call it `a correlation' > > rather than `logic', ok, then as well, I have no objection - It was > > just a word used to convey an idea. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > I am sorry dear but I must be the party-pooper in this thread :- ( > > > > > > You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do with > > the > > > debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' > and > > an > > > extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! > > > > > > Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? > > > > > > Please educate us some more. > > > > > > Much appreciated > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , "sreesog" <sreesog@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > As per astrological classics, for: > > > > Aries - Leo and Scorpio > > > > Taurus - Cancer and Libra > > > > Gemini - Virgo > > > > Cancer - Scorpio and Sagittarius > > > > Leo - Libra > > > > Virgo - Gemini and Pisces > > > > Libra - Virgo and Capricorn > > > > Scorpio - Cancer > > > > Sagittarius - Pisces > > > > Capricorn - Aquarius and Aries > > > > Aquarius - Aries > > > > Pisces - Capricorn > > > > are Vasya signs. > > > > What is the logic behind this concept? Let us try to > understand. > > > > > > > > For Aries, Leo and Scorpio are Vasya Signs. Why? > > > > Leo - the lord of Leo gets exalted in Aries. > > > > Scorpio - Aries and Scorpio are ruled by the same planet. > > > > Rule : (1) If any other planet gets exalted in the sign > then > > > the > > > > sign ruled by that planet could be a Vasya sign. > > > > Rule : (2) If the lord of 2 signs are the same, the second > > sign > > > > could be a Vasya sign for the first and vice-versa. > > > > > > > > For Taurus, Libra and Cancer are Vasya signs. Why? > > > > Cancer - Rule (1) applies here. Lord of Cancer Moon is > > exalted > > > > in Taurus. > > > > Libra - Rule (1) applies here. Taurus and Libra are ruled > by > > > the > > > > same planet Ve. > > > > > > > > For Gemini, Virgo is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Virgo - Rule (2) applies here. Gemini and Virgo are ruled > by > > > the > > > > same planet. > > > > > > > > For Cancer, Scorpio and Sagittarius are Vasya signs. Why? > > > > Scorpio - Is there any connection? The lord of Cancer gets > > > > debilitated in Scorpio!! Both Cancer and Scorpio are signs that > > > > represent reptiles - i.e. Sareesripa signs. The lord of Scorpio > > > gets > > > > debilitated in Cancer. So there is a very strong connection > > between > > > > the two signs. > > > > Rule : (3) The sign in which the lord of the first > > considered > > > > sign gets debilitated could be a Vasya sign. (Here Mo gets > > > > debilitated in Scorpio) > > > > Sagittarius - Rule (1) applies here. The lord of > Sagittarius > > > > gets exalted in Cancer. > > > > > > > > For Leo, Libra is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Lira - Rule (3) applies here. Lord of Leo Sun gets > > debilitated > > > in > > > > Leo. > > > > > > > > For Virgo, Gemini and Pisces are Vasya Signs. Why? > > > > Gemini - Rule (2) applies. Gemini and Virgo are ruled by > the > > > same > > > > planet Me. > > > > Pisces - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Virgo Me gets > debilitated > > in > > > > Piaces. > > > > > > > > For Libra, Virgo and Capricorn are Vasya signs. Why? > > > > Virgo - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Libra gets debilitated > in > > > > Virgo. > > > > Capricorn - Rule (1) applies. Lord of Capricorn Sa gets > > > exalted > > > > in Libra. > > > > > > > > For Scorpio, Cancer is the Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Cancer - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Scorpio Ma gets > > debilitated > > > in > > > > Cancer. > > > > > > > > For Sagittarius, Pisces is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Pisces - Rule (2) applies. Sagittarius and Pisces are ruled > > by > > > > the same planet Ju. > > > > > > > > For Capricorn, Aquarius and Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Aquarius - Rule (2) applies. Capricorn and Aquarius are > > ruled > > > by > > > > the same planet Sa. > > > > Aries - Rule (1) applies. The lord of Aries gets exalted > in > > > > Capricorn. > > > > > > > > For Aquarius, Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Aquarius - Rule (3) applies. The lord of Aquarius gets > > > > debilitated in Aries. > > > > > > > > Fro Pisces, Sagittarius is the Vasya sign. Why? > > > > Sagittarius - Rule (2) applies. Pisces and Sagittarius are > > > ruled > > > > by the same planet. > > > > > > > > Lesson to remember: The sages never tell a thing without > reason > > > and > > > > Logic!! We just need to search and find it out!! > > > > Love, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 Sreenadh ji, I do not consider myself strong or knowledgeable or anything special. I am sad if my image comes across to you or anyone else like that. I cannot help, unfortunately, if people react to their mental image of me! I will address your other post as well, about astrology and non- astrology! RR , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote: > > Dear RR ji, > The straight meaning of the word 'correlation' is simply 'mutual > relation'. All other meaning comes from the context in which it is > used, which we call 'contextual meanings'. I know that you know all > these. The 2 related points that comes to mind is that: > 1) Many words may have more than one meaning. > 2) The word with a particular meaning may get many contextual > meanings. > Going to the philosophical level, > 3) The meaning of the word actually resides in the mind of the > speaker and the listener, and not in that word itself!! > All these gives the language its beauty. Yes, I know all these > are known to you as well. Yes, but for sure you want to enjoy playing > with me, with arguments. But why can we twist it to Astrology rather > than to Linguistics (and probably from there to Literature). > > I will leave it at that before some headmaster > > jumps on my case for exceeding the line-limit or something!! > Yes, you r right! It is already happened!! After seeing the Hinglish > English controversy, I too feel the same. But you see I would like > to support the weak, and you are very strong I know in arguments and > knowledge (and I really appreciate it), and just to add some joy to > this game I would be on the side of the weak only. It is just > friendly fun, and please don't take these comments as personal or as > offensive. My regards to your knowledge and enthusiasm for the cause > of astrology, yes, as well to this great co-coordinating ability, I > wonder how difficult it would be maintain such a big (Actually the > biggest I should say) forum for astrology where more than 40 messages > are posted a day, I also wonder how you find time to post mail on so > many issues after taking pain staking studies to know and understand > the depth of that issue, and gives a simpler view to the general > public. Yes, these are all passing thoughts and I bow before your > efforts for the cause of astrology. > Love, > Sreenadh > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Sreenathji, > > > > I will not let you run with it ;-) > > No personal offence intended, so please do not. > > I agree that yukti and yugma indicate connectivity and oneness but > > correlation is not the same as connection! > > Correlation could be two parallel but unconnected events. This is > why > > observers are cautioned that two things while correlated must not > be > > taken as indication of there being a causal link between the two. > > Such a link would be more like logic which connects or ligates two > > ideas or sequences. > > > > And example often quoted is about a time period where NY stock > > exchange showed the same pattern of rise and fall in numbers of > sperm > > whales. Now there is unlikely to be any links, yukti or connection > > between the two events but they were perfectly correlated. I can > look > > up the exact citation of the statistics book next week if you do > not > > believe me. As you know I always speak the truth :-) > > > > I am not saying that the correlation you have demonstrated is not > > important but before investigating that one would have to see if > the > > concept of vasya signs itself is of significance? Jyotish is full > of > > so many factors and descriptors not all of which are really > > significant when held to the fire of actual testing. > > > > I hope any of my western astrology would not be offended but I see > > the same in their use of the asteroids which are thousands (someone > > told me approx 2500+) and in individual charts show up as > significant > > but then add a few more charts and the significance gets less and > > less significant. > > > > Astrologer must walk the thin line between the desert (few factors) > > and the ocean (too many factors). When we describe the great field > of > > jyotish we have no choice but to describe it factor by factor as > that > > is how we express and understand. So, please do not think that I am > > trying to discourage you from writing your message and sharing your > > very interesting thoughts. But why leave it at that and not > elaborate > > more, about vasya and its application and perhaps that would bring > to > > light situations where the uccha and neecha are brought closer in > > some sense. For instance, whether uchcha or neecha, the planet > > remains the same and does not change its physical form. > > > > I have always felt uchcha-neecha akin to the pakshabala of moon, on > a > > continuum, up and down, bright and dark -- based on the amount of > > light its same physical body reflects. Amavasya absorbs energy, > > purnima sends back the energy, expresses it. The moon does not > change > > physically at all. I will leave it at that before some headmaster > > jumps on my case for exceeding the line-limit or something!! > > > > RR > > > > , "Sreenadh" <sreesog@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear RR ji, You said: > > > > You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do > with > > the > > > > debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' > > and > > > an > > > > extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! > > > > Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? > > > > Please educate us some more. > > > Dear RR ji, I am happy that you have accepted it at least as > > > a 'correlation' Thank you for that. Let it be 'correlation' > > > or 'logic', if this understanding is useful to us, and at least > > > interests some (Thank you for the words 'extremely interesting > > > observation') then I am satisfied. I am teacher to none. We > are > > > just sharing the knowledge and info we can get (from sources such > > as > > > classics or otherwise). I won't like to play the role of best > > > knowledgeable fellow in this forum, since I know well that there > > are > > > many far better than me in this forum, and would love to humbly > bow > > > to their knowledge and also would love to remain the humble > > student > > > of astrology, to learn what ever they can teach me and share with > > me, > > > including yourself. If we can find such beautiful correlations > for > > > all the Vasya signs (with no exception!), it indicates that, > > > originally the saints considered these Rasis as vasya rasis > > probably > > > only after understanding this fact. I hope many will consider > this > > as > > > a logically correct observation. > > > Ok. Here again the word 'logically correct' popes up! We should > do > > > some thing about this word 'Logic'! The dictionary says: Logic = > > > science of reasoning, correctly reasoned, chain of reasoning, a > > > particular system or method of reasoning. etc. It originated from > > the > > > Greek word 'logikos'. 'logos' means knowledge. What is the exact > > > meaning of 'logikos'? Somebody should teach me. But in > > > essence 'anything correctly reasoned' or 'anything that follows a > > > particular system or method of reasoning' is 'logical'. All > > reasoning > > > is nothing but the correlation of cause and effect. Reasoning > > > means 'trying to reach conclusions by connected thought'. Is > > > that 'correlation' is not part of that? > > > Coming to Sanskrit the word used is 'Yukti'. The traditional > > > definition is that 'Unakteeti Yukti' meaning 'anything that > > > correlates' could be termed 'Yukti'. While translation the word > > Yukti > > > is replaced with the words 'reasoning' or 'logically correct > > > arguments' or simply 'logic'. > > > Thus if we consider English or Sanskrit the logic has > > > indicates 'connecting ideas', or 'co-relating ideas'. > > > Actually the word 'Yukti' has a far beyond connotation, than > the > > > mere logical reasoning (which is a duty of the top layer i.e. > > > consciousness - if we consider the 3 layers pointed to by Froid - > > > conscious, semi conscious and unconscious mind). As said earlier > > the > > > word 'Yukti' ('Unakteeti Yukti') means 'anything that > correlates'. > > > This phenomenon is happening not only in the top layer of mind > i.e. > > > consciousness, but also in the semi conscious and unconscious > mind > > as > > > well!! This constant process of correlating and connecting > > > ideas/concepts/sensations/perceptions is happening in all the > > layers > > > of the mind all the time!! When this process popes up from the > semi- > > > conscious mind to the rest taking conscious mind in the night, we > > > call it 'dream'! All of us may have felt, how the unrelated ideas > > > that pass through our conscious mind, and beautifully correlated > > and > > > presented in the dream, like a Cinema, happening right before our > > > eyes!! This 'correlating and connecting of anything that goes > into > > > the mind' is not limited to conscious and unconscious mind alone - > > > it > > > is there in work in the unconscious mind as well. At times we get > a > > > proof of it, when some 'intuition' or 'revelation' popes up!! It > > was > > > not there in conscious, or semiconscious, but see...! How on a > > sudden > > > idea came out of our mind..!! It was there within!! Hiding there > in > > > the unconscious!! Thus this process of correlating and > connecting, > > > which the Rishis has correctly termed 'Yukti' is present there in > > all > > > the three layers of mind, and indicates the constant process of > > that > > > happens - always! within! > > > Yes, if we translate and use the word logic instead of Yukti, > > > then...yes..logic is part of all the tree layers of mind, and it > is > > > nothing but the process of correlating and connecting ideas. Even > > if > > > we limit the meaning of the word 'logic' to 'reasoning that is > > > happening in the conscious mind' alone, then also 'correlating > and > > > connecting' is there, since reasoning it self means 'creating and > > > connecting of ideas'. > > > These are just passing thoughts. But never mind. They are not > > > important. If you feel that there seems to exist a correlation in > > > that concept of Vasya signs, I am satisfied, and is thankful to > you > > > for appreciating that observation. > > > But at the end, should we dip ourselves into the meaning of > > these > > > words, as long as what we intend to convey is getting conveyed? > > Words > > > are for communication, and if the ideas put forward is understood > > by > > > the other person and generates interest in him, is that not > enough? > > > Yes, if you like to call it just like to call it `a > correlation' > > > rather than `logic', ok, then as well, I have no objection - It > was > > > just a word used to convey an idea. > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I am sorry dear but I must be the party-pooper in this thread :- > ( > > > > > > > > You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do > with > > > the > > > > debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' > > and > > > an > > > > extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! > > > > > > > > Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? > > > > > > > > Please educate us some more. > > > > > > > > Much appreciated > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "sreesog" <sreesog@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > As per astrological classics, for: > > > > > Aries - Leo and Scorpio > > > > > Taurus - Cancer and Libra > > > > > Gemini - Virgo > > > > > Cancer - Scorpio and Sagittarius > > > > > Leo - Libra > > > > > Virgo - Gemini and Pisces > > > > > Libra - Virgo and Capricorn > > > > > Scorpio - Cancer > > > > > Sagittarius - Pisces > > > > > Capricorn - Aquarius and Aries > > > > > Aquarius - Aries > > > > > Pisces - Capricorn > > > > > are Vasya signs. > > > > > What is the logic behind this concept? Let us try to > > understand. > > > > > > > > > > For Aries, Leo and Scorpio are Vasya Signs. Why? > > > > > Leo - the lord of Leo gets exalted in Aries. > > > > > Scorpio - Aries and Scorpio are ruled by the same planet. > > > > > Rule : (1) If any other planet gets exalted in the sign > > then > > > > the > > > > > sign ruled by that planet could be a Vasya sign. > > > > > Rule : (2) If the lord of 2 signs are the same, the > second > > > sign > > > > > could be a Vasya sign for the first and vice-versa. > > > > > > > > > > For Taurus, Libra and Cancer are Vasya signs. Why? > > > > > Cancer - Rule (1) applies here. Lord of Cancer Moon is > > > exalted > > > > > in Taurus. > > > > > Libra - Rule (1) applies here. Taurus and Libra are > ruled > > by > > > > the > > > > > same planet Ve. > > > > > > > > > > For Gemini, Virgo is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > > Virgo - Rule (2) applies here. Gemini and Virgo are > ruled > > by > > > > the > > > > > same planet. > > > > > > > > > > For Cancer, Scorpio and Sagittarius are Vasya signs. Why? > > > > > Scorpio - Is there any connection? The lord of Cancer > gets > > > > > debilitated in Scorpio!! Both Cancer and Scorpio are signs > that > > > > > represent reptiles - i.e. Sareesripa signs. The lord of > Scorpio > > > > gets > > > > > debilitated in Cancer. So there is a very strong connection > > > between > > > > > the two signs. > > > > > Rule : (3) The sign in which the lord of the first > > > considered > > > > > sign gets debilitated could be a Vasya sign. (Here Mo gets > > > > > debilitated in Scorpio) > > > > > Sagittarius - Rule (1) applies here. The lord of > > Sagittarius > > > > > gets exalted in Cancer. > > > > > > > > > > For Leo, Libra is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > > Lira - Rule (3) applies here. Lord of Leo Sun gets > > > debilitated > > > > in > > > > > Leo. > > > > > > > > > > For Virgo, Gemini and Pisces are Vasya Signs. Why? > > > > > Gemini - Rule (2) applies. Gemini and Virgo are ruled by > > the > > > > same > > > > > planet Me. > > > > > Pisces - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Virgo Me gets > > debilitated > > > in > > > > > Piaces. > > > > > > > > > > For Libra, Virgo and Capricorn are Vasya signs. Why? > > > > > Virgo - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Libra gets debilitated > > in > > > > > Virgo. > > > > > Capricorn - Rule (1) applies. Lord of Capricorn Sa gets > > > > exalted > > > > > in Libra. > > > > > > > > > > For Scorpio, Cancer is the Vasya sign. Why? > > > > > Cancer - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Scorpio Ma gets > > > debilitated > > > > in > > > > > Cancer. > > > > > > > > > > For Sagittarius, Pisces is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > > Pisces - Rule (2) applies. Sagittarius and Pisces are > ruled > > > by > > > > > the same planet Ju. > > > > > > > > > > For Capricorn, Aquarius and Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > > Aquarius - Rule (2) applies. Capricorn and Aquarius are > > > ruled > > > > by > > > > > the same planet Sa. > > > > > Aries - Rule (1) applies. The lord of Aries gets exalted > > in > > > > > Capricorn. > > > > > > > > > > For Aquarius, Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > > Aquarius - Rule (3) applies. The lord of Aquarius gets > > > > > debilitated in Aries. > > > > > > > > > > Fro Pisces, Sagittarius is the Vasya sign. Why? > > > > > Sagittarius - Rule (2) applies. Pisces and Sagittarius > are > > > > ruled > > > > > by the same planet. > > > > > > > > > > Lesson to remember: The sages never tell a thing without > > reason > > > > and > > > > > Logic!! We just need to search and find it out!! > > > > > Love, > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 Regarding 'astrology' and what others perceive as my HYPOCRACY (?) I shall write in response to your other thread, momentarily :-) RR , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote: > > Dear RR ji, > In the previous mails I forgot one thing. Sorry. > Thanks for the nice mail. I read it 2 or 3 times. I really > appreciate it, and hopes to see many such mails from you. Thanks. > There are many statements that really attracted my attention: > 1) > > Jyotish is full of > > so many factors and descriptors not all of which are really > > significant when held to the fire of actual testing. > 2) > > Astrologer must walk the thin line between the desert (few factors) > > and the ocean (too many factors). When we describe the great field > > of jyotish we have no choice but to describe it factor by factor > > as that is how we express and understand. > I love those, statements. Thanks. > I also happened to saw the following statement by Prashant ji: > > but for today's mail on Vasya i rarely seen you discuss astrology > > or related comments just critisize, make fun, draw the drift? > > what else can u call HYPOCRACY. it is useful if comments are > > constructive as today on Vasya. and some debate thant just to > > show how arragont you are. > I am a new member of this group, and just haven't read much mails by > RR ji. But for sure I have seen many of his articles here and there > some in the files section of this forum and have a different opinion. > Yes, of course I agree to the fact that, TODAYS MAIL BY RR JI ON > VASYA IS REALLY CONSTRUCTIVE, and I have NO OBJECTION against it. > I would request Prashant ji and RR ji to leave this issue here > itself and move on to astrology. My regards and respect to both of > them. > Love, > Sreenadh > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Sreenathji, > > > > I will not let you run with it ;-) > > No personal offence intended, so please do not. > > I agree that yukti and yugma indicate connectivity and oneness but > > correlation is not the same as connection! > > Correlation could be two parallel but unconnected events. This is > why > > observers are cautioned that two things while correlated must not > be > > taken as indication of there being a causal link between the two. > > Such a link would be more like logic which connects or ligates two > > ideas or sequences. > > > > And example often quoted is about a time period where NY stock > > exchange showed the same pattern of rise and fall in numbers of > sperm > > whales. Now there is unlikely to be any links, yukti or connection > > between the two events but they were perfectly correlated. I can > look > > up the exact citation of the statistics book next week if you do > not > > believe me. As you know I always speak the truth :-) > > > > I am not saying that the correlation you have demonstrated is not > > important but before investigating that one would have to see if > the > > concept of vasya signs itself is of significance? Jyotish is full > of > > so many factors and descriptors not all of which are really > > significant when held to the fire of actual testing. > > > > I hope any of my western astrology would not be offended but I see > > the same in their use of the asteroids which are thousands (someone > > told me approx 2500+) and in individual charts show up as > significant > > but then add a few more charts and the significance gets less and > > less significant. > > > > Astrologer must walk the thin line between the desert (few factors) > > and the ocean (too many factors). When we describe the great field > of > > jyotish we have no choice but to describe it factor by factor as > that > > is how we express and understand. So, please do not think that I am > > trying to discourage you from writing your message and sharing your > > very interesting thoughts. But why leave it at that and not > elaborate > > more, about vasya and its application and perhaps that would bring > to > > light situations where the uccha and neecha are brought closer in > > some sense. For instance, whether uchcha or neecha, the planet > > remains the same and does not change its physical form. > > > > I have always felt uchcha-neecha akin to the pakshabala of moon, on > a > > continuum, up and down, bright and dark -- based on the amount of > > light its same physical body reflects. Amavasya absorbs energy, > > purnima sends back the energy, expresses it. The moon does not > change > > physically at all. I will leave it at that before some headmaster > > jumps on my case for exceeding the line-limit or something!! > > > > RR > > > > , "Sreenadh" <sreesog@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear RR ji, You said: > > > > You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do > with > > the > > > > debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' > > and > > > an > > > > extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! > > > > Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? > > > > Please educate us some more. > > > Dear RR ji, I am happy that you have accepted it at least as > > > a 'correlation' Thank you for that. Let it be 'correlation' > > > or 'logic', if this understanding is useful to us, and at least > > > interests some (Thank you for the words 'extremely interesting > > > observation') then I am satisfied. I am teacher to none. We > are > > > just sharing the knowledge and info we can get (from sources such > > as > > > classics or otherwise). I won't like to play the role of best > > > knowledgeable fellow in this forum, since I know well that there > > are > > > many far better than me in this forum, and would love to humbly > bow > > > to their knowledge and also would love to remain the humble > > student > > > of astrology, to learn what ever they can teach me and share with > > me, > > > including yourself. If we can find such beautiful correlations > for > > > all the Vasya signs (with no exception!), it indicates that, > > > originally the saints considered these Rasis as vasya rasis > > probably > > > only after understanding this fact. I hope many will consider > this > > as > > > a logically correct observation. > > > Ok. Here again the word 'logically correct' popes up! We should > do > > > some thing about this word 'Logic'! The dictionary says: Logic = > > > science of reasoning, correctly reasoned, chain of reasoning, a > > > particular system or method of reasoning. etc. It originated from > > the > > > Greek word 'logikos'. 'logos' means knowledge. What is the exact > > > meaning of 'logikos'? Somebody should teach me. But in > > > essence 'anything correctly reasoned' or 'anything that follows a > > > particular system or method of reasoning' is 'logical'. All > > reasoning > > > is nothing but the correlation of cause and effect. Reasoning > > > means 'trying to reach conclusions by connected thought'. Is > > > that 'correlation' is not part of that? > > > Coming to Sanskrit the word used is 'Yukti'. The traditional > > > definition is that 'Unakteeti Yukti' meaning 'anything that > > > correlates' could be termed 'Yukti'. While translation the word > > Yukti > > > is replaced with the words 'reasoning' or 'logically correct > > > arguments' or simply 'logic'. > > > Thus if we consider English or Sanskrit the logic has > > > indicates 'connecting ideas', or 'co-relating ideas'. > > > Actually the word 'Yukti' has a far beyond connotation, than > the > > > mere logical reasoning (which is a duty of the top layer i.e. > > > consciousness - if we consider the 3 layers pointed to by Froid - > > > conscious, semi conscious and unconscious mind). As said earlier > > the > > > word 'Yukti' ('Unakteeti Yukti') means 'anything that > correlates'. > > > This phenomenon is happening not only in the top layer of mind > i.e. > > > consciousness, but also in the semi conscious and unconscious > mind > > as > > > well!! This constant process of correlating and connecting > > > ideas/concepts/sensations/perceptions is happening in all the > > layers > > > of the mind all the time!! When this process popes up from the > semi- > > > conscious mind to the rest taking conscious mind in the night, we > > > call it 'dream'! All of us may have felt, how the unrelated ideas > > > that pass through our conscious mind, and beautifully correlated > > and > > > presented in the dream, like a Cinema, happening right before our > > > eyes!! This 'correlating and connecting of anything that goes > into > > > the mind' is not limited to conscious and unconscious mind alone - > > > it > > > is there in work in the unconscious mind as well. At times we get > a > > > proof of it, when some 'intuition' or 'revelation' popes up!! It > > was > > > not there in conscious, or semiconscious, but see...! How on a > > sudden > > > idea came out of our mind..!! It was there within!! Hiding there > in > > > the unconscious!! Thus this process of correlating and > connecting, > > > which the Rishis has correctly termed 'Yukti' is present there in > > all > > > the three layers of mind, and indicates the constant process of > > that > > > happens - always! within! > > > Yes, if we translate and use the word logic instead of Yukti, > > > then...yes..logic is part of all the tree layers of mind, and it > is > > > nothing but the process of correlating and connecting ideas. Even > > if > > > we limit the meaning of the word 'logic' to 'reasoning that is > > > happening in the conscious mind' alone, then also 'correlating > and > > > connecting' is there, since reasoning it self means 'creating and > > > connecting of ideas'. > > > These are just passing thoughts. But never mind. They are not > > > important. If you feel that there seems to exist a correlation in > > > that concept of Vasya signs, I am satisfied, and is thankful to > you > > > for appreciating that observation. > > > But at the end, should we dip ourselves into the meaning of > > these > > > words, as long as what we intend to convey is getting conveyed? > > Words > > > are for communication, and if the ideas put forward is understood > > by > > > the other person and generates interest in him, is that not > enough? > > > Yes, if you like to call it just like to call it `a > correlation' > > > rather than `logic', ok, then as well, I have no objection - It > was > > > just a word used to convey an idea. > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I am sorry dear but I must be the party-pooper in this thread :- > ( > > > > > > > > You have shown a correlation, namely vasya signs have to do > with > > > the > > > > debilitated or exalted signs of planets! This is 'correlation' > > and > > > an > > > > extremely interesting observation, but I fail to see the logic! > > > > > > > > Unless you are calling a paradox (which it is ...) logical? > > > > > > > > Please educate us some more. > > > > > > > > Much appreciated > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "sreesog" <sreesog@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > As per astrological classics, for: > > > > > Aries - Leo and Scorpio > > > > > Taurus - Cancer and Libra > > > > > Gemini - Virgo > > > > > Cancer - Scorpio and Sagittarius > > > > > Leo - Libra > > > > > Virgo - Gemini and Pisces > > > > > Libra - Virgo and Capricorn > > > > > Scorpio - Cancer > > > > > Sagittarius - Pisces > > > > > Capricorn - Aquarius and Aries > > > > > Aquarius - Aries > > > > > Pisces - Capricorn > > > > > are Vasya signs. > > > > > What is the logic behind this concept? Let us try to > > understand. > > > > > > > > > > For Aries, Leo and Scorpio are Vasya Signs. Why? > > > > > Leo - the lord of Leo gets exalted in Aries. > > > > > Scorpio - Aries and Scorpio are ruled by the same planet. > > > > > Rule : (1) If any other planet gets exalted in the sign > > then > > > > the > > > > > sign ruled by that planet could be a Vasya sign. > > > > > Rule : (2) If the lord of 2 signs are the same, the > second > > > sign > > > > > could be a Vasya sign for the first and vice-versa. > > > > > > > > > > For Taurus, Libra and Cancer are Vasya signs. Why? > > > > > Cancer - Rule (1) applies here. Lord of Cancer Moon is > > > exalted > > > > > in Taurus. > > > > > Libra - Rule (1) applies here. Taurus and Libra are > ruled > > by > > > > the > > > > > same planet Ve. > > > > > > > > > > For Gemini, Virgo is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > > Virgo - Rule (2) applies here. Gemini and Virgo are > ruled > > by > > > > the > > > > > same planet. > > > > > > > > > > For Cancer, Scorpio and Sagittarius are Vasya signs. Why? > > > > > Scorpio - Is there any connection? The lord of Cancer > gets > > > > > debilitated in Scorpio!! Both Cancer and Scorpio are signs > that > > > > > represent reptiles - i.e. Sareesripa signs. The lord of > Scorpio > > > > gets > > > > > debilitated in Cancer. So there is a very strong connection > > > between > > > > > the two signs. > > > > > Rule : (3) The sign in which the lord of the first > > > considered > > > > > sign gets debilitated could be a Vasya sign. (Here Mo gets > > > > > debilitated in Scorpio) > > > > > Sagittarius - Rule (1) applies here. The lord of > > Sagittarius > > > > > gets exalted in Cancer. > > > > > > > > > > For Leo, Libra is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > > Lira - Rule (3) applies here. Lord of Leo Sun gets > > > debilitated > > > > in > > > > > Leo. > > > > > > > > > > For Virgo, Gemini and Pisces are Vasya Signs. Why? > > > > > Gemini - Rule (2) applies. Gemini and Virgo are ruled by > > the > > > > same > > > > > planet Me. > > > > > Pisces - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Virgo Me gets > > debilitated > > > in > > > > > Piaces. > > > > > > > > > > For Libra, Virgo and Capricorn are Vasya signs. Why? > > > > > Virgo - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Libra gets debilitated > > in > > > > > Virgo. > > > > > Capricorn - Rule (1) applies. Lord of Capricorn Sa gets > > > > exalted > > > > > in Libra. > > > > > > > > > > For Scorpio, Cancer is the Vasya sign. Why? > > > > > Cancer - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Scorpio Ma gets > > > debilitated > > > > in > > > > > Cancer. > > > > > > > > > > For Sagittarius, Pisces is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > > Pisces - Rule (2) applies. Sagittarius and Pisces are > ruled > > > by > > > > > the same planet Ju. > > > > > > > > > > For Capricorn, Aquarius and Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > > Aquarius - Rule (2) applies. Capricorn and Aquarius are > > > ruled > > > > by > > > > > the same planet Sa. > > > > > Aries - Rule (1) applies. The lord of Aries gets exalted > > in > > > > > Capricorn. > > > > > > > > > > For Aquarius, Aries is Vasya sign. Why? > > > > > Aquarius - Rule (3) applies. The lord of Aquarius gets > > > > > debilitated in Aries. > > > > > > > > > > Fro Pisces, Sagittarius is the Vasya sign. Why? > > > > > Sagittarius - Rule (2) applies. Pisces and Sagittarius > are > > > > ruled > > > > > by the same planet. > > > > > > > > > > Lesson to remember: The sages never tell a thing without > > reason > > > > and > > > > > Logic!! We just need to search and find it out!! > > > > > Love, > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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