Guest guest Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 I refuse to get serious! Here is my 2 cents. What is happiness? It varies from individual to individual, it varies from time to time in the same individual even when they are experiencing similar situations and this is not an astrological deduction so I will not provide example charts! PVR Narasimha Rao, an astrologer who I absolutely admire above many others much older than him in years and experience -- always ends his post with a statement, "May Jupiter's light shine upon us". I never confirmed with him, but curiously I have always associated that with Jupiter's light, essence, and drishti. Thanks for bringing that to my mind through your posting --- hmmm! I leave that to you to consider and examine, then accept or discard! What does Jupiter's light, jupiter's essence, jupiter's drishti mean to you? Rhetorical question to All That IS! RR , Nirmal Anand <nirdayita wrote: > > RRji, luckily *I've* been talking about astrology. I don't know what you're insinuating...;-) > > Jokes aside, I have been thinking after seeing Tatvam Asi-ji's analysis of Guru messing up the happiness sector and then upon observing the position of Shani in the enemy sector; seems as if no matter how many other planets are positive in a chart, one or two such powerful planets can make or break any remotely positive advances in my chart...Is happiness ever-elusive for me? :-( > > Perhaps I'm interpreting it incorrectly ? > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani wrote: > Seriously now - if you let us do surgery on your chart and birthtime > and ayanamsha etc -- I am sure one or other of us would be able to > move your saturn from 6th into 7th! > > Umm.. err.. you are not planning to get married, I hope or try to > come out of your office to meet with the others ...! That could be a > problem! I am sure there is a remedy to fix that somewhere. > > Enough of this chitchat B-) you want to get the two of us thrown out > of here or what? > > RR > > , Nirmal Anand <nirdayita@> > wrote: > > > > RRji, then I am CERTAINLY doomed since I watch no television. I > have lost some ripus recently...the sukha is taking a while. I'll > pass on the excitement of it all...and settle for some good old > fashioned boring happiness ;-) > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: no your ripus will be > doomed for jupiter will cork them! > > But your sukh will vanish too. After all, who can remain happy > (4th) > > if ripus vanish altogether. That would be so boring, no? All that > > would remain then would be meditating for more hours or watching > > cable TV (a form of neomeditation!) ;-) > > > > RR > > > > , Nirmal Anand <nirdayita@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Gosh, would that mean if I have Guru in my Sukhasthana (4th > house) > > and Shani in my Ripusthana (6th house) - I'm doomed???? > > > > > > auromirra19 <nalini2818@> wrote: Respected Pandit Arjun ji, > > > Very succinct. It is all in the mind. How we perceive is all that > > > matters. maleficness and benignity are all as a native perceives > > > them to be and relative. Sreenadh ji is right when says planets, > no > > > let me be clear, grahas cannot be branded benefic or malefic . > > > Regards > > > Nalini > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > dear sreenadh ji > > > > > > > > you wrote: > > > > "A planet is neither benefic or malefic but only a significator > > or > > > > several things. And it is wrong to classify a planet as benefic > > or > > > > malefic." > > > > > > > > scientifically, based on astronomy, the above statement is a > FACT > > > > which none can deny. > > > > > > > > however, astrology and mythology (not literally mythical!) > based > > > on > > > > puranas and samhitas teach planets and stars as persons and not > > > > celestial objects. in mythology chandra is a male and in > > > astrology > > > > chandra is a female. > > > > > > > > science looks at planets as lifeless objects or a mass or ball > of > > > > chemicals, gases and other susbtances. mythology looks at > > planets > > > > as gods and demons signifying various dispositions direclty > > > > affecting all humans. > > > > > > > > as you rightly observed, instead of branding a planet as > benefic > > > or > > > > malefic, we shall focus more on their dispositions, for what is > > > good > > > > for one is perceived by another as bad. one person sees a wife > > as > > > > bringing good luck, wealth and material comforts, a realised > > > person > > > > sees a wife as maya and prefer brahmacharyam and renouncement > and > > > > yet another realised person see direct goddess in her. in all > > the > > > > three cases, jupiter has his own role but perceptions of the > > > native > > > > in receiving the dispositions are different. > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" <sreelid@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > > > > I know that Ju in Cp being the 6th lord in Debilitation can > > be > > > a > > > > > real malefic as far as married life is concerned. It becomes > a > > > > very > > > > > strong Stana-Bhava-Graha (Sign-House-Planet) prediction and > the > > > > > classics supports it with slokas. Jataka Chandrika (also > known > > > as > > > > > Leghu parasari) says that Ju, when placed in a marka stana > (2nd > > > or > > > > > 7th house) can cause death if it is a Kendradhipati. > > > > > Sa, Ma or Su can give very good results when exalted and > well > > > > placed > > > > > and thus becomes a benefic. After all Benefic means - A > > > planet > > > > > that gives good results and Malefic means - A planet that > gives > > > > bad > > > > > results. > > > > > Should I start a new controversy by stating that "A planet > is > > > > > neither benefic or malefic but only a significator or several > > > > things. > > > > > And it is wrong to classify a planet as benefic or malefic. > > What > > > > is > > > > > important is understanding the predictions that should be > given > > > to > > > > > each combination" ???!! Shall I add some spice to it by > stating > > > > that > > > > > classifications such as "Benefic x MaleficSustana x > Dustana" > > > > are > > > > > just descriptive techniques developed to teach the subject, > > > which > > > > > later caused all the troubles and confusions"?!! > > > > > Yap. I know I have already made the statement!! > > > > > Now let us modify it, so that the idea becomes clear. > > > > > Combinations (Yoga) that are used for prediction could be of > 7 > > > > > types. The whole astrology uses a 7-fold prediction system. > > > > > 1) Sign (Stana Phala :- sign based prediction) > > > > > For eg :Divisions of signs as Fire, Air etc, Chara, > Stira, > > > > etc. > > > > > 2) House (Bhava phala :- house based prediction) > > > > > For eg: If 4th lord is placed in 6th we give some > > > > predictions. > > > > > 3) Planet (Graha phala :- planet based prediction) > > > > > For eg: If Su and Me is together we give some prediction. > > > > > 4) Sign-House (Stana - Bhava :- Sign-House based prediction) > > > > > For eg: If Ge is 3rd house from Asc we give some > > prediction. > > > > > 5) Sign-Planet (Stana-Graha :- Sign-Planet based prediction) > > > > > For eg: If Mo is in Tarus we give some prediction. > > > > > 6) House-Planet (Bhava-Graha :- House-Planet based > prediction) > > > > > For eg: If Me is in 2nd house we give some prediction. > > > > > 7) Sign-House-Planet (Stana-Bhava-Graha :- Sign-House- > Planet > > > > > prediction) > > > > > For eg: If (take our above eg.) Ju the 6th lord for Cn > Asc > > > is > > > > in > > > > > Cp then we give some prediction. > > > > > If we are well aware of this system used by the Rishis, > what > > > is > > > > > the purpose and use of concepts like "Benefic x > > > MalificSustana > > > > x > > > > > Dustana"? We just use them in general discussions to avoid > > > > details. > > > > > I hope the point is clear. Should be now again argue that Ju > > is > > > > > benefic or Malefic, and Ma is benefic or malefic?? And still > > > reach > > > > no > > > > > compromise and no conclusion? Let us try to learn and > > > predict, > > > > > rather than getting entrapped in such controversies. > > > > > Love, > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not see my role or responsibility here, dear member, > to > > > > > provide > > > > > > examples to support or refute interesting theories people > > come > > > > up > > > > > > with :-) It lies squarely on the broad shoulders of the > brave > > > > > > proponent! > > > > > > > > > > > > Speaking of clarity in messages to which you and a couple > > > others > > > > > keep > > > > > > alluding to -- there is that saying about the pot calling > the > > > > > kettle > > > > > > black or maybe it is the kettle that calls the pot so -- > > > etc. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prashant Kumar G B > > > > > > <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi RR, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well it is good to read 2 good mails that can be read > > with > > > > ease > > > > > > by anyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here i felt u wud come up examples galore on Guru as a > > > > Malefic > > > > > or > > > > > > sign spoiler if this was the accepted or pouplar norm, I > > > still > > > > > leave > > > > > > the field open for u and any1 who belives so to put such > > > charts > > > > on > > > > > > the forum easy to handle that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is about it not being a malefic I am sure many > will > > > > chip > > > > > in > > > > > > I will do my part ASAP.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bottom line if Guru is a benific their lives may not be > > as > > > > > > interesting to read as Bill Gates, Marlyn Manro, Dhribhai > > > > Ambani, > > > > > > Michel Jackson, Laloo Prsad Yadav etc. > > > > > > > u can see a Lal Bahudur Shastry, Manmohan Singh type > > > people > > > > in > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PRASHANT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: Prashant, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So that clarity does not get watered down. I was taken by > > > > your > > > > > > strong statement of conviction that opposed the "notions" > > > that > > > > > > astrologers have, namely that jupiter destroys the house it > > is > > > > in > > > > > or > > > > > > can be a malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The strong statement from you made me assume, > naturally, > > > > that > > > > > > your conviction was born out of having seen strong > evidence > > > in > > > > > > charts and > > > > > > > which you may wish to share so that we can see your > > > > statement > > > > > > illustrated. As a general statement, please note that this > > was > > > a > > > > > > simple request which need not get anyone on the defensive, > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that was clear and not too painful to figure out :- > ) > > > > And > > > > > > clarity was the sole reason for my focusing only on one > > > segment > > > > of > > > > > > your longer post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prashant Kumar > G > > > B > > > > > > > <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HiRR, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pretty fast though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > well i assume u mean that it is a malefic and not > may > > > > > > examples of > > > > > > > it beingbenific right? > > > > > > > > I said it is benefic in past Yogas and in present > if > > u > > > r > > > > > > prepared > > > > > > > to wait till it delivers, and also if one remain > honest, > > > > > > selfless, > > > > > > > as human as possible > > > > > > > > not possibe in the commercial, materialsitic world > we > > > r > > > > > in, > > > > > > so > > > > > > > the varoiuos exaples I said if we don't bribe... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if u find unseccessful people by which i mean one > how > > > > has > > > > > not > > > > > > > made a fortune, u can pick his Guru for it. > > > > > > > > for people who succed by hook or crook GURU is a > pure > > > > > > malefic, > > > > > > > not sure if I have to repeat it again or with charts > > sure > > > > will > > > > > > then > > > > > > > some moderator will say no personal charts, openions > if > > u > > > > > allow > > > > > > it > > > > > > > can put them accross. SURE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anyway am happy u clipped some part of the mail and > > > > wrote > > > > > > back > > > > > > > else would be in circles on what u meant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any way for record sake my paternal grandfather was > > an > > > > > > atheist, > > > > > > > my father is a rationalist, and I can say I AM MIiX > of > > > > > > > rationalst+traditionalist but know our forefathers r > far > > > > > better > > > > > > > people highly evolved we have no way of judging them > even > > > > the > > > > > > ones > > > > > > > who failed in the normal standards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so I am only trying to understand our traditions, > > > values > > > > > with > > > > > > an > > > > > > > OPEN MIND. and still reasoning it with our current > > needs, > > > > > values. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: Prashant, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bravo! > > > > > > > > We would welcome your posting several birthdata > > > refuting > > > > > this > > > > > > age- > > > > > > > old but not quite corroborated 'notion' to align with > > > your > > > > > bold > > > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > and astrological conviction! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanyavaad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prashant > > > Kumar > > > > G B > > > > > > > > <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I DISAGREE with notions that Guru spoils the > > house > > > > he > > > > > is > > > > > > in > > > > > > > or is a malefic etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > DIVINITY > > > > AND > > > > > > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > astrology > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > chart > Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > Terms > > > > > of > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to- Phone > > > Calls > > > > > > using > > > > > > > Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY > > > AND > > > > > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > > > > of > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How low will we go? 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Guest guest Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 I'm speaking of "happiness" in the conventional sense. Without gutting my entire life story and placing it out on an open forum, I mean it as the simple, mainstream sense of the word. I've never seen Guru to be the problem in my chart, but now with this discussion, I'm examining the role of Guru in regards to my life. I'm enjoying your insights....please seriously joke away and elucidate us :-) crystal pages <jyotish_vani wrote: I refuse to get serious! Here is my 2 cents. What is happiness? It varies from individual to individual, it varies from time to time in the same individual even when they are experiencing similar situations and this is not an astrological deduction so I will not provide example charts! PVR Narasimha Rao, an astrologer who I absolutely admire above many others much older than him in years and experience -- always ends his post with a statement, "May Jupiter's light shine upon us". I never confirmed with him, but curiously I have always associated that with Jupiter's light, essence, and drishti. Thanks for bringing that to my mind through your posting --- hmmm! I leave that to you to consider and examine, then accept or discard! What does Jupiter's light, jupiter's essence, jupiter's drishti mean to you? Rhetorical question to All That IS! RR , Nirmal Anand <nirdayita wrote: > > RRji, luckily *I've* been talking about astrology. I don't know what you're insinuating...;-) > > Jokes aside, I have been thinking after seeing Tatvam Asi-ji's analysis of Guru messing up the happiness sector and then upon observing the position of Shani in the enemy sector; seems as if no matter how many other planets are positive in a chart, one or two such powerful planets can make or break any remotely positive advances in my chart...Is happiness ever-elusive for me? :-( > > Perhaps I'm interpreting it incorrectly ? > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani wrote: > Seriously now - if you let us do surgery on your chart and birthtime > and ayanamsha etc -- I am sure one or other of us would be able to > move your saturn from 6th into 7th! > > Umm.. err.. you are not planning to get married, I hope or try to > come out of your office to meet with the others ...! That could be a > problem! I am sure there is a remedy to fix that somewhere. > > Enough of this chitchat B-) you want to get the two of us thrown out > of here or what? > > RR > > , Nirmal Anand <nirdayita@> > wrote: > > > > RRji, then I am CERTAINLY doomed since I watch no television. I > have lost some ripus recently...the sukha is taking a while. I'll > pass on the excitement of it all...and settle for some good old > fashioned boring happiness ;-) > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: no your ripus will be > doomed for jupiter will cork them! > > But your sukh will vanish too. After all, who can remain happy > (4th) > > if ripus vanish altogether. That would be so boring, no? All that > > would remain then would be meditating for more hours or watching > > cable TV (a form of neomeditation!) ;-) > > > > RR > > > > , Nirmal Anand <nirdayita@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Gosh, would that mean if I have Guru in my Sukhasthana (4th > house) > > and Shani in my Ripusthana (6th house) - I'm doomed???? > > > > > > auromirra19 <nalini2818@> wrote: Respected Pandit Arjun ji, > > > Very succinct. It is all in the mind. How we perceive is all that > > > matters. maleficness and benignity are all as a native perceives > > > them to be and relative. Sreenadh ji is right when says planets, > no > > > let me be clear, grahas cannot be branded benefic or malefic . > > > Regards > > > Nalini > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > dear sreenadh ji > > > > > > > > you wrote: > > > > "A planet is neither benefic or malefic but only a significator > > or > > > > several things. And it is wrong to classify a planet as benefic > > or > > > > malefic." > > > > > > > > scientifically, based on astronomy, the above statement is a > FACT > > > > which none can deny. > > > > > > > > however, astrology and mythology (not literally mythical!) > based > > > on > > > > puranas and samhitas teach planets and stars as persons and not > > > > celestial objects. in mythology chandra is a male and in > > > astrology > > > > chandra is a female. > > > > > > > > science looks at planets as lifeless objects or a mass or ball > of > > > > chemicals, gases and other susbtances. mythology looks at > > planets > > > > as gods and demons signifying various dispositions direclty > > > > affecting all humans. > > > > > > > > as you rightly observed, instead of branding a planet as > benefic > > > or > > > > malefic, we shall focus more on their dispositions, for what is > > > good > > > > for one is perceived by another as bad. one person sees a wife > > as > > > > bringing good luck, wealth and material comforts, a realised > > > person > > > > sees a wife as maya and prefer brahmacharyam and renouncement > and > > > > yet another realised person see direct goddess in her. in all > > the > > > > three cases, jupiter has his own role but perceptions of the > > > native > > > > in receiving the dispositions are different. > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" <sreelid@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > > > > I know that Ju in Cp being the 6th lord in Debilitation can > > be > > > a > > > > > real malefic as far as married life is concerned. It becomes > a > > > > very > > > > > strong Stana-Bhava-Graha (Sign-House-Planet) prediction and > the > > > > > classics supports it with slokas. Jataka Chandrika (also > known > > > as > > > > > Leghu parasari) says that Ju, when placed in a marka stana > (2nd > > > or > > > > > 7th house) can cause death if it is a Kendradhipati. > > > > > Sa, Ma or Su can give very good results when exalted and > well > > > > placed > > > > > and thus becomes a benefic. After all Benefic means - A > > > planet > > > > > that gives good results and Malefic means - A planet that > gives > > > > bad > > > > > results. > > > > > Should I start a new controversy by stating that "A planet > is > > > > > neither benefic or malefic but only a significator or several > > > > things. > > > > > And it is wrong to classify a planet as benefic or malefic. > > What > > > > is > > > > > important is understanding the predictions that should be > given > > > to > > > > > each combination" ???!! Shall I add some spice to it by > stating > > > > that > > > > > classifications such as "Benefic x MaleficSustana x > Dustana" > > > > are > > > > > just descriptive techniques developed to teach the subject, > > > which > > > > > later caused all the troubles and confusions"?!! > > > > > Yap. I know I have already made the statement!! > > > > > Now let us modify it, so that the idea becomes clear. > > > > > Combinations (Yoga) that are used for prediction could be of > 7 > > > > > types. The whole astrology uses a 7-fold prediction system. > > > > > 1) Sign (Stana Phala :- sign based prediction) > > > > > For eg :Divisions of signs as Fire, Air etc, Chara, > Stira, > > > > etc. > > > > > 2) House (Bhava phala :- house based prediction) > > > > > For eg: If 4th lord is placed in 6th we give some > > > > predictions. > > > > > 3) Planet (Graha phala :- planet based prediction) > > > > > For eg: If Su and Me is together we give some prediction. > > > > > 4) Sign-House (Stana - Bhava :- Sign-House based prediction) > > > > > For eg: If Ge is 3rd house from Asc we give some > > prediction. > > > > > 5) Sign-Planet (Stana-Graha :- Sign-Planet based prediction) > > > > > For eg: If Mo is in Tarus we give some prediction. > > > > > 6) House-Planet (Bhava-Graha :- House-Planet based > prediction) > > > > > For eg: If Me is in 2nd house we give some prediction. > > > > > 7) Sign-House-Planet (Stana-Bhava-Graha :- Sign-House- > Planet > > > > > prediction) > > > > > For eg: If (take our above eg.) Ju the 6th lord for Cn > Asc > > > is > > > > in > > > > > Cp then we give some prediction. > > > > > If we are well aware of this system used by the Rishis, > what > > > is > > > > > the purpose and use of concepts like "Benefic x > > > MalificSustana > > > > x > > > > > Dustana"? We just use them in general discussions to avoid > > > > details. > > > > > I hope the point is clear. Should be now again argue that Ju > > is > > > > > benefic or Malefic, and Ma is benefic or malefic?? And still > > > reach > > > > no > > > > > compromise and no conclusion? Let us try to learn and > > > predict, > > > > > rather than getting entrapped in such controversies. > > > > > Love, > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not see my role or responsibility here, dear member, > to > > > > > provide > > > > > > examples to support or refute interesting theories people > > come > > > > up > > > > > > with :-) It lies squarely on the broad shoulders of the > brave > > > > > > proponent! > > > > > > > > > > > > Speaking of clarity in messages to which you and a couple > > > others > > > > > keep > > > > > > alluding to -- there is that saying about the pot calling > the > > > > > kettle > > > > > > black or maybe it is the kettle that calls the pot so -- > > > etc. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prashant Kumar G B > > > > > > <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi RR, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well it is good to read 2 good mails that can be read > > with > > > > ease > > > > > > by anyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here i felt u wud come up examples galore on Guru as a > > > > Malefic > > > > > or > > > > > > sign spoiler if this was the accepted or pouplar norm, I > > > still > > > > > leave > > > > > > the field open for u and any1 who belives so to put such > > > charts > > > > on > > > > > > the forum easy to handle that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is about it not being a malefic I am sure many > will > > > > chip > > > > > in > > > > > > I will do my part ASAP.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bottom line if Guru is a benific their lives may not be > > as > > > > > > interesting to read as Bill Gates, Marlyn Manro, Dhribhai > > > > Ambani, > > > > > > Michel Jackson, Laloo Prsad Yadav etc. > > > > > > > u can see a Lal Bahudur Shastry, Manmohan Singh type > > > people > > > > in > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PRASHANT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: Prashant, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So that clarity does not get watered down. I was taken by > > > > your > > > > > > strong statement of conviction that opposed the "notions" > > > that > > > > > > astrologers have, namely that jupiter destroys the house it > > is > > > > in > > > > > or > > > > > > can be a malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The strong statement from you made me assume, > naturally, > > > > that > > > > > > your conviction was born out of having seen strong > evidence > > > in > > > > > > charts and > > > > > > > which you may wish to share so that we can see your > > > > statement > > > > > > illustrated. As a general statement, please note that this > > was > > > a > > > > > > simple request which need not get anyone on the defensive, > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that was clear and not too painful to figure out :- > ) > > > > And > > > > > > clarity was the sole reason for my focusing only on one > > > segment > > > > of > > > > > > your longer post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prashant Kumar > G > > > B > > > > > > > <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HiRR, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pretty fast though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > well i assume u mean that it is a malefic and not > may > > > > > > examples of > > > > > > > it beingbenific right? > > > > > > > > I said it is benefic in past Yogas and in present > if > > u > > > r > > > > > > prepared > > > > > > > to wait till it delivers, and also if one remain > honest, > > > > > > selfless, > > > > > > > as human as possible > > > > > > > > not possibe in the commercial, materialsitic world > we > > > r > > > > > in, > > > > > > so > > > > > > > the varoiuos exaples I said if we don't bribe... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if u find unseccessful people by which i mean one > how > > > > has > > > > > not > > > > > > > made a fortune, u can pick his Guru for it. > > > > > > > > for people who succed by hook or crook GURU is a > pure > > > > > > malefic, > > > > > > > not sure if I have to repeat it again or with charts > > sure > > > > will > > > > > > then > > > > > > > some moderator will say no personal charts, openions > if > > u > > > > > allow > > > > > > it > > > > > > > can put them accross. SURE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anyway am happy u clipped some part of the mail and > > > > wrote > > > > > > back > > > > > > > else would be in circles on what u meant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any way for record sake my paternal grandfather was > > an > > > > > > atheist, > > > > > > > my father is a rationalist, and I can say I AM MIiX > of > > > > > > > rationalst+traditionalist but know our forefathers r > far > > > > > better > > > > > > > people highly evolved we have no way of judging them > even > > > > the > > > > > > ones > > > > > > > who failed in the normal standards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so I am only trying to understand our traditions, > > > values > > > > > with > > > > > > an > > > > > > > OPEN MIND. and still reasoning it with our current > > needs, > > > > > values. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: Prashant, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bravo! > > > > > > > > We would welcome your posting several birthdata > > > refuting > > > > > this > > > > > > age- > > > > > > > old but not quite corroborated 'notion' to align with > > > your > > > > > bold > > > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > and astrological conviction! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanyavaad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prashant > > > Kumar > > > > G B > > > > > > > > <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I DISAGREE with notions that Guru spoils the > > house > > > > he > > > > > is > > > > > > in > > > > > > > or is a malefic etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > DIVINITY > > > > AND > > > > > > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > astrology > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > chart > Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > Terms > > > > > of > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. 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Guest guest Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 I wasn't try to pry into your specifics -- just opening a generic discussion really given that this is a forum with many individuals lurking (standard term for individuals who are members but never make their presence known by posting etc -- no need for anyone to feel insulted or get their danders up!) There are a couple of 'D's in one's human experience: what one DESIRES, what one thinks one DESERVES. The latter is a type of desire too. This is on one side of the see-saw and on the other side are the 'W's. what one is WORTH and how much one has WORKED for 'it'! All four terms come from a series of births in the linear-time karma based framework that astrology is most comfortable with. By saying that I am not saying that that is the absolute reality because scientists and followers of Seth would not agree (curiously -- both polar opposite in many ways but associated with letter "S"). At a given instant, if the Ds match up with Ws, the seesaw is balanced, horizontal and one feels as if one is in the air, free, happy. Personal happiness in life is striking a balance once in a while between the D and W, and hoping that you have grown enough so that your legs ("L") reach the ground ("G") and you are not hanging in mid- air! RR , Nirmal Anand <nirdayita wrote: > > I'm speaking of "happiness" in the conventional sense. Without gutting my entire life story and placing it out on an open forum, I mean it as the simple, mainstream sense of the word. I've never seen Guru to be the problem in my chart, but now with this discussion, I'm examining the role of Guru in regards to my life. I'm enjoying your insights....please seriously joke away and elucidate us :-) > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani wrote: I refuse to get serious! > > Here is my 2 cents. What is happiness? It varies from individual to > individual, it varies from time to time in the same individual even > when they are experiencing similar situations and this is not an > astrological deduction so I will not provide example charts! > > PVR Narasimha Rao, an astrologer who I absolutely admire above many > others much older than him in years and experience -- always ends his > post with a statement, "May Jupiter's light shine upon us". I never > confirmed with him, but curiously I have always associated that with > Jupiter's light, essence, and drishti. Thanks for bringing that to my > mind through your posting --- hmmm! I leave that to you to consider > and examine, then accept or discard! > > What does Jupiter's light, jupiter's essence, jupiter's drishti mean > to you? Rhetorical question to All That IS! > > RR > > > > > , Nirmal Anand <nirdayita@> > wrote: > > > > RRji, luckily *I've* been talking about astrology. I don't know > what you're insinuating...;-) > > > > Jokes aside, I have been thinking after seeing Tatvam Asi-ji's > analysis of Guru messing up the happiness sector and then upon > observing the position of Shani in the enemy sector; seems as if no > matter how many other planets are positive in a chart, one or two > such powerful planets can make or break any remotely positive > advances in my chart...Is happiness ever-elusive for me? :-( > > > > Perhaps I'm interpreting it incorrectly ? > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > Seriously now - if you let us do surgery on your chart and > birthtime > > and ayanamsha etc -- I am sure one or other of us would be able to > > move your saturn from 6th into 7th! > > > > Umm.. err.. you are not planning to get married, I hope or try to > > come out of your office to meet with the others ...! That could be > a > > problem! I am sure there is a remedy to fix that somewhere. > > > > Enough of this chitchat B-) you want to get the two of us thrown > out > > of here or what? > > > > RR > > > > , Nirmal Anand <nirdayita@> > > wrote: > > > > > > RRji, then I am CERTAINLY doomed since I watch no television. I > > have lost some ripus recently...the sukha is taking a while. I'll > > pass on the excitement of it all...and settle for some good old > > fashioned boring happiness ;-) > > > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: no your ripus will be > > doomed for jupiter will cork them! > > > But your sukh will vanish too. After all, who can remain happy > > (4th) > > > if ripus vanish altogether. That would be so boring, no? All that > > > would remain then would be meditating for more hours or watching > > > cable TV (a form of neomeditation!) ;-) > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , Nirmal Anand > <nirdayita@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Gosh, would that mean if I have Guru in my Sukhasthana (4th > > house) > > > and Shani in my Ripusthana (6th house) - I'm doomed???? > > > > > > > > auromirra19 <nalini2818@> wrote: Respected Pandit Arjun ji, > > > > Very succinct. It is all in the mind. How we perceive is all > that > > > > matters. maleficness and benignity are all as a native > perceives > > > > them to be and relative. Sreenadh ji is right when says > planets, > > no > > > > let me be clear, grahas cannot be branded benefic or malefic . > > > > Regards > > > > Nalini > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > dear sreenadh ji > > > > > > > > > > you wrote: > > > > > "A planet is neither benefic or malefic but only a > significator > > > or > > > > > several things. And it is wrong to classify a planet as > benefic > > > or > > > > > malefic." > > > > > > > > > > scientifically, based on astronomy, the above statement is a > > FACT > > > > > which none can deny. > > > > > > > > > > however, astrology and mythology (not literally mythical!) > > based > > > > on > > > > > puranas and samhitas teach planets and stars as persons and > not > > > > > celestial objects. in mythology chandra is a male and in > > > > astrology > > > > > chandra is a female. > > > > > > > > > > science looks at planets as lifeless objects or a mass or > ball > > of > > > > > chemicals, gases and other susbtances. mythology looks at > > > planets > > > > > as gods and demons signifying various dispositions direclty > > > > > affecting all humans. > > > > > > > > > > as you rightly observed, instead of branding a planet as > > benefic > > > > or > > > > > malefic, we shall focus more on their dispositions, for what > is > > > > good > > > > > for one is perceived by another as bad. one person sees a > wife > > > as > > > > > bringing good luck, wealth and material comforts, a realised > > > > person > > > > > sees a wife as maya and prefer brahmacharyam and renouncement > > and > > > > > yet another realised person see direct goddess in her. in > all > > > the > > > > > three cases, jupiter has his own role but perceptions of the > > > > native > > > > > in receiving the dispositions are different. > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > <sreelid@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > > > > > I know that Ju in Cp being the 6th lord in Debilitation > can > > > be > > > > a > > > > > > real malefic as far as married life is concerned. It > becomes > > a > > > > > very > > > > > > strong Stana-Bhava-Graha (Sign-House-Planet) prediction and > > the > > > > > > classics supports it with slokas. Jataka Chandrika (also > > known > > > > as > > > > > > Leghu parasari) says that Ju, when placed in a marka stana > > (2nd > > > > or > > > > > > 7th house) can cause death if it is a Kendradhipati. > > > > > > Sa, Ma or Su can give very good results when exalted and > > well > > > > > placed > > > > > > and thus becomes a benefic. After all Benefic means - A > > > > planet > > > > > > that gives good results and Malefic means - A planet that > > gives > > > > > bad > > > > > > results. > > > > > > Should I start a new controversy by stating that "A planet > > is > > > > > > neither benefic or malefic but only a significator or > several > > > > > things. > > > > > > And it is wrong to classify a planet as benefic or malefic. > > > What > > > > > is > > > > > > important is understanding the predictions that should be > > given > > > > to > > > > > > each combination" ???!! Shall I add some spice to it by > > stating > > > > > that > > > > > > classifications such as "Benefic x MaleficSustana x > > Dustana" > > > > > are > > > > > > just descriptive techniques developed to teach the subject, > > > > which > > > > > > later caused all the troubles and confusions"?!! > > > > > > Yap. I know I have already made the statement!! > > > > > > Now let us modify it, so that the idea becomes clear. > > > > > > Combinations (Yoga) that are used for prediction could be > of > > 7 > > > > > > types. The whole astrology uses a 7-fold prediction system. > > > > > > 1) Sign (Stana Phala :- sign based prediction) > > > > > > For eg :Divisions of signs as Fire, Air etc, Chara, > > Stira, > > > > > etc. > > > > > > 2) House (Bhava phala :- house based prediction) > > > > > > For eg: If 4th lord is placed in 6th we give some > > > > > predictions. > > > > > > 3) Planet (Graha phala :- planet based prediction) > > > > > > For eg: If Su and Me is together we give some > prediction. > > > > > > 4) Sign-House (Stana - Bhava :- Sign-House based > prediction) > > > > > > For eg: If Ge is 3rd house from Asc we give some > > > prediction. > > > > > > 5) Sign-Planet (Stana-Graha :- Sign-Planet based > prediction) > > > > > > For eg: If Mo is in Tarus we give some prediction. > > > > > > 6) House-Planet (Bhava-Graha :- House-Planet based > > prediction) > > > > > > For eg: If Me is in 2nd house we give some prediction. > > > > > > 7) Sign-House-Planet (Stana-Bhava-Graha :- Sign-House- > > Planet > > > > > > prediction) > > > > > > For eg: If (take our above eg.) Ju the 6th lord for Cn > > Asc > > > > is > > > > > in > > > > > > Cp then we give some prediction. > > > > > > If we are well aware of this system used by the Rishis, > > what > > > > is > > > > > > the purpose and use of concepts like "Benefic x > > > > MalificSustana > > > > > x > > > > > > Dustana"? We just use them in general discussions to avoid > > > > > details. > > > > > > I hope the point is clear. Should be now again argue that > Ju > > > is > > > > > > benefic or Malefic, and Ma is benefic or malefic?? And > still > > > > reach > > > > > no > > > > > > compromise and no conclusion? Let us try to learn and > > > > predict, > > > > > > rather than getting entrapped in such controversies. > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not see my role or responsibility here, dear member, > > to > > > > > > provide > > > > > > > examples to support or refute interesting theories people > > > come > > > > > up > > > > > > > with :-) It lies squarely on the broad shoulders of the > > brave > > > > > > > proponent! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Speaking of clarity in messages to which you and a couple > > > > others > > > > > > keep > > > > > > > alluding to -- there is that saying about the pot calling > > the > > > > > > kettle > > > > > > > black or maybe it is the kettle that calls the pot so -- > > > > etc. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prashant Kumar G > B > > > > > > > <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi RR, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well it is good to read 2 good mails that can be read > > > with > > > > > ease > > > > > > > by anyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here i felt u wud come up examples galore on Guru as > a > > > > > Malefic > > > > > > or > > > > > > > sign spoiler if this was the accepted or pouplar norm, I > > > > still > > > > > > leave > > > > > > > the field open for u and any1 who belives so to put such > > > > charts > > > > > on > > > > > > > the forum easy to handle that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is about it not being a malefic I am sure many > > will > > > > > chip > > > > > > in > > > > > > > I will do my part ASAP.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bottom line if Guru is a benific their lives may not > be > > > as > > > > > > > interesting to read as Bill Gates, Marlyn Manro, > Dhribhai > > > > > Ambani, > > > > > > > Michel Jackson, Laloo Prsad Yadav etc. > > > > > > > > u can see a Lal Bahudur Shastry, Manmohan Singh type > > > > people > > > > > in > > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PRASHANT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: Prashant, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So that clarity does not get watered down. I was taken > by > > > > > your > > > > > > > strong statement of conviction that opposed the "notions" > > > > that > > > > > > > astrologers have, namely that jupiter destroys the house > it > > > is > > > > > in > > > > > > or > > > > > > > can be a malefic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The strong statement from you made me assume, > > naturally, > > > > > that > > > > > > > your conviction was born out of having seen strong > > evidence > > > > in > > > > > > > charts and > > > > > > > > which you may wish to share so that we can see your > > > > > statement > > > > > > > illustrated. As a general statement, please note that > this > > > was > > > > a > > > > > > > simple request which need not get anyone on the > defensive, > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that was clear and not too painful to figure > out :- > > ) > > > > > And > > > > > > > clarity was the sole reason for my focusing only on one > > > > segment > > > > > of > > > > > > > your longer post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prashant > Kumar > > G > > > > B > > > > > > > > <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HiRR, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pretty fast though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > well i assume u mean that it is a malefic and not > > may > > > > > > > examples of > > > > > > > > it beingbenific right? > > > > > > > > > I said it is benefic in past Yogas and in present > > if > > > u > > > > r > > > > > > > prepared > > > > > > > > to wait till it delivers, and also if one remain > > honest, > > > > > > > selfless, > > > > > > > > as human as possible > > > > > > > > > not possibe in the commercial, materialsitic > world > > we > > > > r > > > > > > in, > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > the varoiuos exaples I said if we don't bribe... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if u find unseccessful people by which i mean one > > how > > > > > has > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > made a fortune, u can pick his Guru for it. > > > > > > > > > for people who succed by hook or crook GURU is a > > pure > > > > > > > malefic, > > > > > > > > not sure if I have to repeat it again or with charts > > > sure > > > > > will > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > some moderator will say no personal charts, openions > > if > > > u > > > > > > allow > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > can put them accross. SURE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anyway am happy u clipped some part of the mail > and > > > > > wrote > > > > > > > back > > > > > > > > else would be in circles on what u meant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any way for record sake my paternal grandfather > was > > > an > > > > > > > atheist, > > > > > > > > my father is a rationalist, and I can say I AM MIiX > > of > > > > > > > > rationalst+traditionalist but know our forefathers r > > far > > > > > > better > > > > > > > > people highly evolved we have no way of judging them > > even > > > > > the > > > > > > > ones > > > > > > > > who failed in the normal standards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so I am only trying to understand our traditions, > > > > values > > > > > > with > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > OPEN MIND. and still reasoning it with our current > > > needs, > > > > > > values. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > Prashant, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bravo! > > > > > > > > > We would welcome your posting several birthdata > > > > refuting > > > > > > this > > > > > > > age- > > > > > > > > old but not quite corroborated 'notion' to align > with > > > > your > > > > > > bold > > > > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > > and astrological conviction! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanyavaad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prashant > > > > Kumar > > > > > G B > > > > > > > > > <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I DISAGREE with notions that Guru spoils the > > > house > > > > > he > > > > > > is > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > or is a malefic etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > > DIVINITY > > > > > AND > > > > > > > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > > astrology > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > > chart > > Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To from this group, send an email > to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > > Terms > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to- > Phone > > > > Calls > > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > DIVINITY > > > > AND > > > > > > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > Terms > > > > > of > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low > PC- > > to- > > > > > Phone > > > > > > > call rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > > RELISH > > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US > > (and > > > 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > RELISH > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > > Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC > and save big. > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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