Jupiter does not destroy the house/sign it is in, in a natal chart 2/4

[Guest guest]

The pleasure is all mine, sir!

 

, "Sreenadh" <sreelid wrote:

>

> Dear RR ji,

> That was a nice mail. You put it nicely. I enjoyed it. Thanks.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

> , "crystal pages"

> <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> >

> > But Krishnanji, that is exactly how I see it and have stated so. NO

> > planet is an unconditional benefic or malefic and that is why we

> are

> > called individuals and so must our charts be, if astrology truly

> > reflects us individually and our human experience!

> >

> > No one has ever contested that or questioned that u-n-c-o-n-d-i-t-i-

> o-

> > n-a-l-l-y!

> >

> > There are predispositions and leaning or probabilities. A serial

> > killer when released is likely to kill again, a habitual thief is

> > likely to steal! That does not prevent a Valmiki to be born or do

> > what he did! A revered spiritual leader can fall, can end up being

> > charged with murder or so on. That does not create a changing of

> > rules -- but simply caution the next time because obviously the

> truth

> > as we know it is not 100% true!

> >

> > The day astrology becomes black and white, yes or no, one factor is

> > everything -- it becomes computer science and we know how good

> > computer horoscope readings are!

> >

> > Then there is fuzzy logic creeping into computer science. WE have

> > hope for making these machines almost human someday!

> >

> > RR

> >

> > , vattem krishnan

> > <bursar_99@> wrote:

> > >

> > > dear madam,

> > > Sreenadh ji is very affirmative in classifying planets as

> benific

> > etc.the fact is no planet is malefic and benific except when

> results

> > were found to be negative from dasa point of view.we want something

> > to happen from our point of view and some ahere some astrologer too

> > must have inspired us to expect.ultimately we find ourselves

> > disappointed as our hopes never materialise and satisfy us.so we

> say

> > jupiter has given despair.when we link this state with principles

> of

> > jyotish we have lot of expalnation available from grahabala etc

> > > let's somehow reconcile that application of jyotish from the

> > point of view accuaracy in predictions.it always elusive.Even I

> have

> > my teachers to hesitant to claims as par excellent predictions.This

> > controversy of benific,malefic continues unabated even if jyotish

> > principle are made ample clear

> > > krishnan

> > >

> > > auromirra19 <nalini2818@> wrote:

> > > Respected Pandit Arjun ji,

> > > Very succinct. It is all in the mind. How we perceive is all that

> > > matters. maleficness and benignity are all as a native perceives

> > > them to be and relative. Sreenadh ji is right when says planets,

> no

> > > let me be clear, grahas cannot be branded benefic or malefic .

> > > Regards

> > > Nalini

> > > , "panditarjun2004"

> > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > dear sreenadh ji

> > > >

> > > > you wrote:

> > > > "A planet is neither benefic or malefic but only a significator

> > or

> > > > several things. And it is wrong to classify a planet as benefic

> > or

> > > > malefic."

> > > >

> > > > scientifically, based on astronomy, the above statement is a

> FACT

> > > > which none can deny.

> > > >

> > > > however, astrology and mythology (not literally mythical!)

> based

> > > on

> > > > puranas and samhitas teach planets and stars as persons and not

> > > > celestial objects. in mythology chandra is a male and in

> > > astrology

> > > > chandra is a female.

> > > >

> > > > science looks at planets as lifeless objects or a mass or ball

> of

> > > > chemicals, gases and other susbtances. mythology looks at

> > planets

> > > > as gods and demons signifying various dispositions direclty

> > > > affecting all humans.

> > > >

> > > > as you rightly observed, instead of branding a planet as

> benefic

> > > or

> > > > malefic, we shall focus more on their dispositions, for what is

> > > good

> > > > for one is perceived by another as bad. one person sees a wife

> > as

> > > > bringing good luck, wealth and material comforts, a realised

> > > person

> > > > sees a wife as maya and prefer brahmacharyam and renouncement

> and

> > > > yet another realised person see direct goddess in her. in all

> > the

> > > > three cases, jupiter has his own role but perceptions of the

> > > native

> > > > in receiving the dispositions are different.

> > > >

> > > > with best wishes

> > > > arjun

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "Sreenadh" <sreelid@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Friends,

> > > > > I know that Ju in Cp being the 6th lord in Debilitation can

> > be

> > > a

> > > > > real malefic as far as married life is concerned. It becomes

> a

> > > > very

> > > > > strong Stana-Bhava-Graha (Sign-House-Planet) prediction and

> the

> > > > > classics supports it with slokas. Jataka Chandrika (also

> known

> > > as

> > > > > Leghu parasari) says that Ju, when placed in a marka stana

> (2nd

> > > or

> > > > > 7th house) can cause death if it is a Kendradhipati.

> > > > > Sa, Ma or Su can give very good results when exalted and

> well

> > > > placed

> > > > > and thus becomes a benefic. After all Benefic means - A

> > > planet

> > > > > that gives good results and Malefic means - A planet that

> gives

> > > > bad

> > > > > results.

> > > > > Should I start a new controversy by stating that "A planet

> is

> > > > > neither benefic or malefic but only a significator or several

> > > > things.

> > > > > And it is wrong to classify a planet as benefic or malefic.

> > What

> > > > is

> > > > > important is understanding the predictions that should be

> given

> > > to

> > > > > each combination" ???!! Shall I add some spice to it by

> stating

> > > > that

> > > > > classifications such as "Benefic x MaleficSustana x

> Dustana"

> > > > are

> > > > > just descriptive techniques developed to teach the subject,

> > > which

> > > > > later caused all the troubles and confusions"?!!

> > > > > Yap. I know I have already made the statement!!

> > > > > Now let us modify it, so that the idea becomes clear.

> > > > > Combinations (Yoga) that are used for prediction could be of

> 7

> > > > > types. The whole astrology uses a 7-fold prediction system.

> > > > > 1) Sign (Stana Phala :- sign based prediction)

> > > > > For eg :Divisions of signs as Fire, Air etc, Chara,

> Stira,

> > > > etc.

> > > > > 2) House (Bhava phala :- house based prediction)

> > > > > For eg: If 4th lord is placed in 6th we give some

> > > > predictions.

> > > > > 3) Planet (Graha phala :- planet based prediction)

> > > > > For eg: If Su and Me is together we give some prediction.

> > > > > 4) Sign-House (Stana - Bhava :- Sign-House based prediction)

> > > > > For eg: If Ge is 3rd house from Asc we give some

> > prediction.

> > > > > 5) Sign-Planet (Stana-Graha :- Sign-Planet based prediction)

> > > > > For eg: If Mo is in Tarus we give some prediction.

> > > > > 6) House-Planet (Bhava-Graha :- House-Planet based

> prediction)

> > > > > For eg: If Me is in 2nd house we give some prediction.

> > > > > 7) Sign-House-Planet (Stana-Bhava-Graha :- Sign-House-

> Planet

> > > > > prediction)

> > > > > For eg: If (take our above eg.) Ju the 6th lord for Cn

> Asc

> > > is

> > > > in

> > > > > Cp then we give some prediction.

> > > > > If we are well aware of this system used by the Rishis,

> what

> > > is

> > > > > the purpose and use of concepts like "Benefic x

> > > MalificSustana

> > > > x

> > > > > Dustana"? We just use them in general discussions to avoid

> > > > details.

> > > > > I hope the point is clear. Should be now again argue that Ju

> > is

> > > > > benefic or Malefic, and Ma is benefic or malefic?? And still

> > > reach

> > > > no

> > > > > compromise and no conclusion? Let us try to learn and

> > > predict,

> > > > > rather than getting entrapped in such controversies.

> > > > > Love,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > > > , "crystal pages"

> > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I do not see my role or responsibility here, dear member,

> to

> > > > > provide

> > > > > > examples to support or refute interesting theories people

> > come

> > > > up

> > > > > > with :-) It lies squarely on the broad shoulders of the

> brave

> > > > > > proponent!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Speaking of clarity in messages to which you and a couple

> > > others

> > > > > keep

> > > > > > alluding to -- there is that saying about the pot calling

> the

> > > > > kettle

> > > > > > black or maybe it is the kettle that calls the pot so --

> > > etc. ;-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > RR

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , Prashant Kumar G B

> > > > > > <gbp_kumar@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi RR,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Well it is good to read 2 good mails that can be read

> > with

> > > > ease

> > > > > > by anyone.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Here i felt u wud come up examples galore on Guru as a

> > > > Malefic

> > > > > or

> > > > > > sign spoiler if this was the accepted or pouplar norm, I

> > > still

> > > > > leave

> > > > > > the field open for u and any1 who belives so to put such

> > > charts

> > > > on

> > > > > > the forum easy to handle that.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If it is about it not being a malefic I am sure many

> will

> > > > chip

> > > > > in

> > > > > > I will do my part ASAP..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Bottom line if Guru is a benific their lives may not be

> > as

> > > > > > interesting to read as Bill Gates, Marlyn Manro, Dhribhai

> > > > Ambani,

> > > > > > Michel Jackson, Laloo Prsad Yadav etc.

> > > > > > > u can see a Lal Bahudur Shastry, Manmohan Singh type

> > > people

> > > > in

> > > > > > it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > PRASHANT

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: Prashant,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So that clarity does not get watered down. I was taken by

> > > > your

> > > > > > strong statement of conviction that opposed the "notions"

> > > that

> > > > > > astrologers have, namely that jupiter destroys the house it

> > is

> > > > in

> > > > > or

> > > > > > can be a malefic.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The strong statement from you made me assume,

> naturally,

> > > > that

> > > > > > your conviction was born out of having seen strong

> evidence

> > > in

> > > > > > charts and

> > > > > > > which you may wish to share so that we can see your

> > > > statement

> > > > > > illustrated. As a general statement, please note that this

> > was

> > > a

> > > > > > simple request which need not get anyone on the defensive,

> > > etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hope that was clear and not too painful to figure out :-

> )

> > > > And

> > > > > > clarity was the sole reason for my focusing only on one

> > > segment

> > > > of

> > > > > > your longer post.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , Prashant Kumar

> G

> > > B

> > > > > > > <gbp_kumar@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > HiRR,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > pretty fast though.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > well i assume u mean that it is a malefic and not

> may

> > > > > > examples of

> > > > > > > it beingbenific right?

> > > > > > > > I said it is benefic in past Yogas and in present

> if

> > u

> > > r

> > > > > > prepared

> > > > > > > to wait till it delivers, and also if one remain

> honest,

> > > > > > selfless,

> > > > > > > as human as possible

> > > > > > > > not possibe in the commercial, materialsitic world

> we

> > > r

> > > > > in,

> > > > > > so

> > > > > > > the varoiuos exaples I said if we don't bribe...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > if u find unseccessful people by which i mean one

> how

> > > > has

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > made a fortune, u can pick his Guru for it.

> > > > > > > > for people who succed by hook or crook GURU is a

> pure

> > > > > > malefic,

> > > > > > > not sure if I have to repeat it again or with charts

> > sure

> > > > will

> > > > > > then

> > > > > > > some moderator will say no personal charts, openions

> if

> > u

> > > > > allow

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > can put them accross. SURE.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > anyway am happy u clipped some part of the mail and

> > > > wrote

> > > > > > back

> > > > > > > else would be in circles on what u meant.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > any way for record sake my paternal grandfather was

> > an

> > > > > > atheist,

> > > > > > > my father is a rationalist, and I can say I AM MIiX

> of

> > > > > > > rationalst+traditionalist but know our forefathers r

> far

> > > > > better

> > > > > > > people highly evolved we have no way of judging them

> even

> > > > the

> > > > > > ones

> > > > > > > who failed in the normal standards.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > so I am only trying to understand our traditions,

> > > values

> > > > > with

> > > > > > an

> > > > > > > OPEN MIND. and still reasoning it with our current

> > needs,

> > > > > values.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Prashant

> > > > > > > > prashant

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: Prashant,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Bravo!

> > > > > > > > We would welcome your posting several birthdata

> > > refuting

> > > > > this

> > > > > > age-

> > > > > > > old but not quite corroborated 'notion' to align with

> > > your

> > > > > bold

> > > > > > > statement

> > > > > > > > and astrological conviction!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dhanyavaad

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > , Prashant

> > > Kumar

> > > > G B

> > > > > > > > <gbp_kumar@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > I DISAGREE with notions that Guru spoils the

> > house

> > > > he

> > > > > is

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > or is a malefic etc.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE

> > > DIVINITY

> > > > AND

> > > > > > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> >

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[Guest guest]

Bharatji,

 

Your dispassionate and incisive style is unmistakable and appreciated

in this bedlam that modern jyotish has landed in, despite so many

scholars knowing the primal language it was written in and expressed

and rewritten umpteen times! That Shangrila of purity that still

remains right in front of our collective noses but if only our

Broca's areas could absorb and connect to our third and second houses

(that is enough astrology to make this posting legitimate!)

 

One question if I may? For the one on the path of realization, the

desires must be overcome and vanish (graha -- nothing to grab the

soul and heart anymore) but the environments (signs) must too, right?

 

Hence beginner sadhus and renunciates-in-training may hide in ashrams

and hideouts with their occasional tea and coffee breaks, but

eventually for full realization, both the verity of planets and

signs, desires and environments, must not just be overcome but

reduced to being totally ineffective, even non-existant!

 

Now that I can accept! I always believed that astrology is the ladder

that one can discard once one reaches the terrace and really does not

need to come down!

 

RR

 

, "Bharat Hindu Astrology"

<hinduastrology wrote:

>

> Namaskaar All

>

> Take the Graha as the desire and its power as its force. The Rasi

is the

> environment. When desire is not fulfilled, it causes deep

frustrations.

> Jupiter in an enemy rasi means that the individual cannot carry out

the

> purposeful dharma. If Jupiter is strong, it means that the know-how

of

> Dharma is strong.

>

> In such a case, Jupiter either tries to change the environment by

its power

> or feels deep frustration.

>

> To check any Graha and its results, it is important to see the

following:

> 1. Graha's Nature

> 2. Graha's Significations as per house rulership

> 3. Strength of Graha

> 4. The Rasi wherein it is located

> 5. Whether or not Rasi is conducive to the Graha

> 6. Is there a relationship between the Graha and the Rasi Lord

> 7. Is there permanent or temporary friendship or enmity

>

> If you take Jupiter per se, it is a benign graha. However, when it

cannot

> fulfill what it seeks to do, then, it can be the indirect cause of

deep

> seated guilt and a split personality. Moreover, on account of house

> lordships, Jupiter can express some malefic nature.

>

> Hope the above is helpful.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

>