charging money for astro service or products

[Guest guest]

It is interesting how these conversations change over a few email

exchanges reminding one of the telephone game! One person receives

the original message and passes on to another who then passes it to

another. When the 20th person's message is compared with the

original message -- the two remain hardly identical or even similar!

It is a very interesting exercise which I recommend to everyone --

hopefully they can find 19 others to cooperate ;-)

 

 

I think the original beef was aimed at some astrologers who charge

for their services. It should never have been mis-interpreted as any

and all astrologers who charge fees!

 

Astrology is hard work and professional or not, if someone wishes to

charge for their time, no one needs Late Mr. Raman's blessings or

endorsement (no disrespect intended towards the modern Varahamihira

as he has been called respectfully and very deservingly I may add).

 

Why one does astrology is a personal thing and all astrologers and

their motives, or their response and accuracy should not be lumped

into one big homogenous basket regardless of whether jupiter is

neecha in transit or some yoga or tithi is operating!

 

Such reaction and steam predictably generated when the matter of

astrologers and fees is raised by someone is very strange coming

from people who are portrayed as being mature and calm and

spiritually uplifted (by personal claims, other people's views and

sometimes through demonstrations as well!). It almost comically

brings to mind an experience from my young days when I was posted in

a Village. There was this mauni sadhu baba who was very accomplished

and always spoke without opening his mouth (like ventriloquists or

puppeteers you must have seen on television). We went to visit him

and being young and somewhat rowdy, some of us (not me ofcourse dear

friends!) started challenging him and asking pointed questions.

Seeing his hold on the villagers in jeopardy, the calm and self-

realized sadhu became visibly upset and started abusing us (real bad

stuff I can't repeat in front of this august audience) but through

all that outburst, he did not open his mouth and continued gali-

galouj with his mouth closed and in the nasal speech he had

practiced so well. Regardless of the comical nature of the

situation, it was impressive how he did not break his 'vow' of

silence.

 

Back to the point -- if some astrologer wants to charge for his

services it is no one's business to judge that. If it is done up

front and without the element of 'taking advantage' of someone's

state of mind, depressed state etc then I don't think anyone cares

or for that matter is anyone's business. Those who charge should not

feel that they need to explain their actions or justify it to

anyone. It is between their motives/conscience and their client.

 

By the same token, it would be naive of us to not admit that there

have been cases and continue to be so of people who are taken

advantage of or feel they have been taken advantage of -- and they

may feel it justified to report or complain in public forum. Honest

and sincere jyotishis should not immediately take this to mean that

it is directed at them and get upset. This sort of allegations are

aimed at all professions, lawyers, doctors, astrologers, psychics,

etc. Does not mean the entire barrel is tainted. On the other hand,

if there is an overreaction or even strong reaction -- one should

reexamine their positions, quietly and make amends as necessary --

again between themselves and their soul.

 

 

This is being said without mincing words from the perspective of

common-sense and need not be twisted into anything political or

taken personally!

 

RR

 

, Prashant Kumar G B

<gbp_kumar wrote:

>

> Hi Krishnan,

>

> I am sending the file now as a word doc for easy reading

>

> I amyalsoadd a line here on Shantala's outbursts/

> B V Raman had said any astrologer can `charge a nominal amount

for his services' without pinching the client, as it is a work done

professionally not a professinal work that has bills , strings

attached.

>

> I hope this piece is useful in some way to all our eraders and

wish to be corrected if I made any errors in them as it is over 14

yrs ago and not edited since as westerner or a current Indian are

anyway ignorant of our rich heritage, values systems. People born

before 1970 r somewhat better off know in bits and pieces some part

of our culture.

>

>

>

> vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: Dear Prashan jee,

> Such issues as:to strive sharper...."know how good we

are........ when they seek our advice....... our part is done"

> are personal and depends on one's approaches and liking.Probably

these may really relevant through personal contacts as professiona

and justified when you say:to strive to sharper in helping the

distressed"

> Also how people really take astrological tips in their stride

and follow is a mute point.As you said"distress"leads to all kinds

efforts as they are needy.Yet we as professional can only advice

but can not entirely change destinies.Iam sure as an experienced

Astrology with market feel your dedication is commendable

> krishnan

> Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar wrote:

> Dear Members,

>

> after reading a chain of reactionalry mails going in ping

pong directions, i felt may be I can add some more dimensions to

it, at least as I understood this and presented to my WESTERN

CLIENTS on the net 14 yrs ago. as fro them our Karmic dharma is

alien.It is part of my website, but have pasted all of them here

for members convience in 1 mail.

>

> I hope this effort is inthe right direction and would like a

free debate on this and any additions or deletions people for for

such a presentation.

> I also do tell my clientile the best reward/fee for my work

is FEEDBACK, IF I FAIL LET ME know at the earliest when I am right

u can tell me anytinme.

> we have to strive to sharper in helping the distressed seekers

than personal gratification or know how good we are.at the end

of the day if we can shape the course of a few people in better

light than they are when they seek our advice our part is done.

>

> Prashant Kumar GB

> 9840051861

>

> here it goes. READ THE ATTACHED WORD DOC CAN BE SEEN IN

WORDPAD, WORDPERFECT also.

>

>

>

>

> Prashant

>

>

> Mail

> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder, sir, despite the succintness of sanskrit,

why 'shruti' was preferred by our seers rather than

'lipi'.

 

 

--- clarity2020 <rrgb wrote:

 

> It is interesting how these conversations change

> over a few email

> exchanges reminding one of the telephone game! One

> person receives

> the original message and passes on to another who

> then passes it to

> another. When the 20th person's message is compared

> with the

> original message -- the two remain hardly identical

> or even similar!

> It is a very interesting exercise which I recommend

> to everyone --

> hopefully they can find 19 others to cooperate ;-)

>

>

> I think the original beef was aimed at some

> astrologers who charge

> for their services. It should never have been

> mis-interpreted as any

> and all astrologers who charge fees!

>

> Astrology is hard work and professional or not, if

> someone wishes to

> charge for their time, no one needs Late Mr. Raman's

> blessings or

> endorsement (no disrespect intended towards the

> modern Varahamihira

> as he has been called respectfully and very

> deservingly I may add).

>

> Why one does astrology is a personal thing and all

> astrologers and

> their motives, or their response and accuracy should

> not be lumped

> into one big homogenous basket regardless of whether

> jupiter is

> neecha in transit or some yoga or tithi is

> operating!

>

> Such reaction and steam predictably generated when

> the matter of

> astrologers and fees is raised by someone is very

> strange coming

> from people who are portrayed as being mature and

> calm and

> spiritually uplifted (by personal claims, other

> people's views and

> sometimes through demonstrations as well!). It

> almost comically

> brings to mind an experience from my young days when

> I was posted in

> a Village. There was this mauni sadhu baba who was

> very accomplished

> and always spoke without opening his mouth (like

> ventriloquists or

> puppeteers you must have seen on television). We

> went to visit him

> and being young and somewhat rowdy, some of us (not

> me ofcourse dear

> friends!) started challenging him and asking pointed

> questions.

> Seeing his hold on the villagers in jeopardy, the

> calm and self-

> realized sadhu became visibly upset and started

> abusing us (real bad

> stuff I can't repeat in front of this august

> audience) but through

> all that outburst, he did not open his mouth and

> continued gali-

> galouj with his mouth closed and in the nasal speech

> he had

> practiced so well. Regardless of the comical nature

> of the

> situation, it was impressive how he did not break

> his 'vow' of

> silence.

>

> Back to the point -- if some astrologer wants to

> charge for his

> services it is no one's business to judge that. If

> it is done up

> front and without the element of 'taking advantage'

> of someone's

> state of mind, depressed state etc then I don't

> think anyone cares

> or for that matter is anyone's business. Those who

> charge should not

> feel that they need to explain their actions or

> justify it to

> anyone. It is between their motives/conscience and

> their client.

>

> By the same token, it would be naive of us to not

> admit that there

> have been cases and continue to be so of people who

> are taken

> advantage of or feel they have been taken advantage

> of -- and they

> may feel it justified to report or complain in

> public forum. Honest

> and sincere jyotishis should not immediately take

> this to mean that

> it is directed at them and get upset. This sort of

> allegations are

> aimed at all professions, lawyers, doctors,

> astrologers, psychics,

> etc. Does not mean the entire barrel is tainted. On

> the other hand,

> if there is an overreaction or even strong reaction

> -- one should

> reexamine their positions, quietly and make amends

> as necessary --

> again between themselves and their soul.

>

>

> This is being said without mincing words from the

> perspective of

> common-sense and need not be twisted into anything

> political or

> taken personally!

>

> RR

>

> , Prashant

> Kumar G B

> <gbp_kumar wrote:

> >

> > Hi Krishnan,

> >

> > I am sending the file now as a word doc for easy

> reading

> >

> > I amyalsoadd a line here on Shantala's

> outbursts/

> > B V Raman had said any astrologer can `charge a

> nominal amount

> for his services' without pinching the client, as it

> is a work done

> professionally not a professinal work that has bills

> , strings

> attached.

> >

> > I hope this piece is useful in some way to all

> our eraders and

> wish to be corrected if I made any errors in them

> as it is over 14

> yrs ago and not edited since as westerner or a

> current Indian are

> anyway ignorant of our rich heritage, values

> systems. People born

> before 1970 r somewhat better off know in bits and

> pieces some part

> of our culture.

> >

> >

> >

> > vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote:

> Dear Prashan jee,

> > Such issues as:to strive sharper...."know how

> good we

> are........ when they seek our advice....... our

> part is done"

> > are personal and depends on one's approaches and

> liking.Probably

> these may really relevant through personal contacts

> as professiona

> and justified when you say:to strive to sharper in

> helping the

> distressed"

> > Also how people really take astrological tips

> in their stride

> and follow is a mute point.As you

> said"distress"leads to all kinds

> efforts as they are needy.Yet we as professional can

> only advice

> but can not entirely change destinies.Iam sure as

> an experienced

> Astrology with market feel your dedication is

> commendable

> > krishnan

> > Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar wrote:

> > Dear Members,

> >

> > after reading a chain of reactionalry mails

> going in ping

> pong directions, i felt may be I can add some more

> dimensions to

> it, at least as I understood this and presented to

> my WESTERN

> CLIENTS on the net 14 yrs ago. as fro them our

> Karmic dharma is

> alien.It is part of my website, but have pasted all

> of them here

> for members convience in 1 mail.

> >

> > I hope this effort is inthe right direction

> and would like a

> free debate on this and any additions or deletions

> people for for

> such a presentation.

> > I also do tell my clientile the best

> reward/fee

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

My guess would be based on observed practices -- that back then and

even in my childhood in the late fifties, early sixties, the

emphasis was on memorization. Unlike the telephone game I was

referring to, the stress was on exact memorization, like a parrot.

This ensured the exact replication of information and ruled out lax

and loosey goosey interpretation, misinterpretation of the original

and modification. Such high standards are not observed in the

telephone game which seems to have become the norm today when

statements are interpreted and propagated. Sometimes, skillful

manipulators have been known to do magic even with the verbatim!

 

Again, caveat -- this is all general (I hate to be so cautious and

politically-correct amongst friends and family but this is kaliyuga,

after all where even shruti is schrutinized, sometimes wrongly!) and

purity still lives on, so not everywhere is there doom and gloom.

 

Once memorized, shruti can be very effective and a great memory aid.

On another note, I have observed that those who utilize and practice

memorization continuously end up with better memories and almost a

built in protection against the ravages of time and the downside of

an aging brain! Chess is another alternative and so is bridge in my

observation! Recently there was in the news that seniors who keep

their brains challenged are less likely to suffer from cerebral

decline associated with aging.

 

Lipi does not provide that, shruti does -- not sure if this answers

your question, Rishi.

 

 

, rishi shukla

<rishi_2000in wrote:

>

> I wonder, sir, despite the succintness of sanskrit,

> why 'shruti' was preferred by our seers rather than

> 'lipi'.

>

>

> --- clarity2020 <rrgb wrote:

>

> > It is interesting how these conversations change

> > over a few email

> > exchanges reminding one of the telephone game! One

> > person receives

> > the original message and passes on to another who

> > then passes it to

> > another. When the 20th person's message is compared

> > with the

> > original message -- the two remain hardly identical

> > or even similar!

> > It is a very interesting exercise which I recommend

> > to everyone --

> > hopefully they can find 19 others to cooperate ;-)

> >

> >

> > I think the original beef was aimed at some

> > astrologers who charge

> > for their services. It should never have been

> > mis-interpreted as any

> > and all astrologers who charge fees!

> >

> > Astrology is hard work and professional or not, if

> > someone wishes to

> > charge for their time, no one needs Late Mr. Raman's

> > blessings or

> > endorsement (no disrespect intended towards the

> > modern Varahamihira

> > as he has been called respectfully and very

> > deservingly I may add).

> >

> > Why one does astrology is a personal thing and all

> > astrologers and

> > their motives, or their response and accuracy should

> > not be lumped

> > into one big homogenous basket regardless of whether

> > jupiter is

> > neecha in transit or some yoga or tithi is

> > operating!

> >

> > Such reaction and steam predictably generated when

> > the matter of

> > astrologers and fees is raised by someone is very

> > strange coming

> > from people who are portrayed as being mature and

> > calm and

> > spiritually uplifted (by personal claims, other

> > people's views and

> > sometimes through demonstrations as well!). It

> > almost comically

> > brings to mind an experience from my young days when

> > I was posted in

> > a Village. There was this mauni sadhu baba who was

> > very accomplished

> > and always spoke without opening his mouth (like

> > ventriloquists or

> > puppeteers you must have seen on television). We

> > went to visit him

> > and being young and somewhat rowdy, some of us (not

> > me ofcourse dear

> > friends!) started challenging him and asking pointed

> > questions.

> > Seeing his hold on the villagers in jeopardy, the

> > calm and self-

> > realized sadhu became visibly upset and started

> > abusing us (real bad

> > stuff I can't repeat in front of this august

> > audience) but through

> > all that outburst, he did not open his mouth and

> > continued gali-

> > galouj with his mouth closed and in the nasal speech

> > he had

> > practiced so well. Regardless of the comical nature

> > of the

> > situation, it was impressive how he did not break

> > his 'vow' of

> > silence.

> >

> > Back to the point -- if some astrologer wants to

> > charge for his

> > services it is no one's business to judge that. If

> > it is done up

> > front and without the element of 'taking advantage'

> > of someone's

> > state of mind, depressed state etc then I don't

> > think anyone cares

> > or for that matter is anyone's business. Those who

> > charge should not

> > feel that they need to explain their actions or

> > justify it to

> > anyone. It is between their motives/conscience and

> > their client.

> >

> > By the same token, it would be naive of us to not

> > admit that there

> > have been cases and continue to be so of people who

> > are taken

> > advantage of or feel they have been taken advantage

> > of -- and they

> > may feel it justified to report or complain in

> > public forum. Honest

> > and sincere jyotishis should not immediately take

> > this to mean that

> > it is directed at them and get upset. This sort of

> > allegations are

> > aimed at all professions, lawyers, doctors,

> > astrologers, psychics,

> > etc. Does not mean the entire barrel is tainted. On

> > the other hand,

> > if there is an overreaction or even strong reaction

> > -- one should

> > reexamine their positions, quietly and make amends

> > as necessary --

> > again between themselves and their soul.

> >

> >

> > This is being said without mincing words from the

> > perspective of

> > common-sense and need not be twisted into anything

> > political or

> > taken personally!

> >

> > RR

> >

> > , Prashant

> > Kumar G B

> > <gbp_kumar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Krishnan,

> > >

> > > I am sending the file now as a word doc for easy

> > reading

> > >

> > > I amyalsoadd a line here on Shantala's

> > outbursts/

> > > B V Raman had said any astrologer can `charge a

> > nominal amount

> > for his services' without pinching the client, as it

> > is a work done

> > professionally not a professinal work that has bills

> > , strings

> > attached.

> > >

> > > I hope this piece is useful in some way to all

> > our eraders and

> > wish to be corrected if I made any errors in them

> > as it is over 14

> > yrs ago and not edited since as westerner or a

> > current Indian are

> > anyway ignorant of our rich heritage, values

> > systems. People born

> > before 1970 r somewhat better off know in bits and

> > pieces some part

> > of our culture.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > vattem krishnan <bursar_99@> wrote:

> > Dear Prashan jee,

> > > Such issues as:to strive sharper...."know how

> > good we

> > are........ when they seek our advice....... our

> > part is done"

> > > are personal and depends on one's approaches and

> > liking.Probably

> > these may really relevant through personal contacts

> > as professiona

> > and justified when you say:to strive to sharper in

> > helping the

> > distressed"

> > > Also how people really take astrological tips

> > in their stride

> > and follow is a mute point.As you

> > said"distress"leads to all kinds

> > efforts as they are needy.Yet we as professional can

> > only advice

> > but can not entirely change destinies.Iam sure as

> > an experienced

> > Astrology with market feel your dedication is

> > commendable

> > > krishnan

> > > Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@> wrote:

> > > Dear Members,

> > >

> > > after reading a chain of reactionalry mails

> > going in ping

> > pong directions, i felt may be I can add some more

> > dimensions to

> > it, at least as I understood this and presented to

> > my WESTERN

> > CLIENTS on the net 14 yrs ago. as fro them our

> > Karmic dharma is

> > alien.It is part of my website, but have pasted all

> > of them here

> > for members convience in 1 mail.

> > >

> > > I hope this effort is inthe right direction

> > and would like a

> > free debate on this and any additions or deletions

> > people for for

> > such a presentation.

> > > I also do tell my clientile the best

> > reward/fee

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

There is no debating what you said.

However, lipi .......lasts for more time than shruti.

While shruti, the best of it fades away in a generation or few or gets

slightly changed with desh and kaal; lipi remains, letting us ponder

over what Parasara had said and what actually he meant.

And then translating suited to our own perceptions.

 

regards

rishi

[Guest guest]

Termites, moths, fungii, fading ink -- lipi is not as resistant to

fading as you think it is!

 

Both need preservation, specially dedicated attempts -- shruti and

lipi.

 

The curiously intriguing thing, though, is that despite invasions by

many cultures and some really cruel and bent upon effacing all

history -- Jyotish survives in the format, howsoever defaced,

deformed -- survives enough to live on and be useful, helpful to many.

 

I will leave it at that ...

 

RR

 

 

, "rishi_2000in"

<rishi_2000in wrote:

>

> There is no debating what you said.

> However, lipi .......lasts for more time than shruti.

> While shruti, the best of it fades away in a generation or few or

gets

> slightly changed with desh and kaal; lipi remains, letting us ponder

> over what Parasara had said and what actually he meant.

> And then translating suited to our own perceptions.

>

> regards

> rishi

>

[Guest guest]

And each individual human being distinctly unique, with a specific

set of DNA, finger prints and many other parameters which are being

found out as our knowledge base grows, each individual affected by

their own set of ambience reacting differently to the same set of

events.

And jyotish needs to find out that specific individuality based on

its time tested set of rules..not exactly rules but many a set of

rules, yet it succeeds in pointing out the flow of life and many a

events and causes.

I suppose, therefore, any attempt to tie jyotish down in a given set

of rules and type casting only limits the limitless nature of

jyotish.

 

 

 

 

, "rohiniranjan" <rrgb

wrote:

>

> Termites, moths, fungii, fading ink -- lipi is not as resistant to

> fading as you think it is!

>

> Both need preservation, specially dedicated attempts -- shruti and

> lipi.

>

> The curiously intriguing thing, though, is that despite invasions

by

> many cultures and some really cruel and bent upon effacing all

> history -- Jyotish survives in the format, howsoever defaced,

> deformed -- survives enough to live on and be useful, helpful to

many.

>

> I will leave it at that ...

>

> RR

>

>

> , "rishi_2000in"

> <rishi_2000in@> wrote:

> >

> > There is no debating what you said.

> > However, lipi .......lasts for more time than shruti.

> > While shruti, the best of it fades away in a generation or few

or

> gets

> > slightly changed with desh and kaal; lipi remains, letting us

ponder

> > over what Parasara had said and what actually he meant.

> > And then translating suited to our own perceptions.

> >

> > regards

> > rishi

> >

>