Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 dear sharma garu while appreciating your sharing knowledge on various ways of reading, my eldery brotherly suggestion is not to share information on kshudra sadhana and tantra sadhana in public forums as i have enough experience in these fields and have seen the ramifications both with my gurus and with myself. just for your information i preach what i practice. in both public and private domain, i advise any and every one to desist from getting lured to the tantric or kshudra sadhanas which are like playing with fire unless he is a lone person in the world and has detached completely. as brother ashutoshji rightly said, samudrika sastra was mastered by the elderly generations who used to predict without even speaking a word. each branch of predictive science is great in its own way and we appreciate all such branches without one being superior or inferior. as regards RR's observation of not straying into other branches other than vedic jyotish, i have asked the group owner tanvir ji about the same few months ago and he welcomed sharing knowledge on allied subjects as well and hence sharing of views and knowledge is welcome. i thank brother krishnanji's compliments which i duly pass on to all the gurus from whom i learnt the little. in fact i studied the tantra, mantra, yantra first and then started walking backwards and am studying astrology for the past five years. to take further RR's views, even as per astrology (vedic jyotish) also one can predict by seeing a person's physical characteristics as to what lagna the person is, as to what planets are exalted or debilitated and are in which houses. i have seen several great vedic jyotish astrologers (often living in unrecognised bylanes and who do not know how to use a computer) who predict just by seeing the person, PURELY BASED ON VEDIC JYOTISH. this is what i meant when said only a highly experienced astrologer can read backwards. similarly just by hearing the diseases suffering or hearing the description of problems faced, as per vedic jyotish, one can read backwards as to what dasa and antardasa the person is undergoing. honestly speaking, if a person gives his/her precise birth details, the job of an astrologer is made easy in reading and analysing. but as krishnanji rightly observed, most visitors do not follow the remedies and keep visiting as many astrologers in the world as they can. by sticking to one astrologer, he/she would definitely get results. i personally felt shri. parthasarathy has tremendous knowledge (since he said that he got his third eye activated and use it for predictions) and even asked him to share some more knowledge on astrology and seven chakras a couple of weeks ago when he was sharing so much knowledge in so short a time , but unfortunately since then he is not available in this group. Kadrudraji in one of the mails mentioned that he is also studying on astrology and chakras and would request him to share any information on how to read the chakras based on astrolgy. the shankaracharya told that knowledge is like light and the more you share and gain knowledge, the more enlightened and illuminated one becomes. with best wishes arjun "r.sathyanarayana sharma" <rssharmabza wrote: dear members, with due regards, i would like to share a few things on the current topic of how predictions can be made without the aid of charts. There are two areas to consider, 1. Samudrika sastra or physiognomy: Mind is the subtle body and body is gross mind. As are the thoughts, so is the body. Yogis know this subtle connection. So a continuous pattern of thinking will bring changes in body accordingly. The first results are seen in the eyes.The eyes of pious ones are cool,restful,steady and without any color of passion. The shape, length,texture,etc of all the limbs speak volumes of the individual,if only we know how to read that language. For example, it is common knowledge among palmists that a clubbed thumb gives a cruel mind. The ears, if the upper part of them is pointed and lower part not hanging and close to the jaw will make that person a murderer. If the ears are long and broad,hanging will make a man wise and a sage.Like this, every organ gives clues about the psychology and mentality of the native. However, to know the future events, it requires a deep knowledge of the samudrika sastra and a certain advancement in yogic sadhana.Combining these two tools, we can know the future events(or past events)even without the aid of birth charts. 2. The second area is mantra sadhana. Without even knowing about samudrika sastra, one can know the future event through mantra sadhana. Now again in this, there are ksudra mantras like karna-pisaachini,vata-yakshina,vatuka-bhairava and a host of minor mantras and maha mantras like Gayatri, or the dasa maha vidyas etc. The ksudra mantras are easily gained siddhi in say 40 days or so, but one has to continue giving bali(sacrifice,not necessarily animal)daily to that devata. Then it tells in the ear,many startling things like name of the questioner,his date of birth,day of birth,details of his family etc. But the future predictions fail miserably, since the vision of the devata is very limited. It cannot see the future.Usually the end of these mantra-practitioners is miserable. However, it is different with maha mantras.One knows the future events "in a flash". But siddhi is not easy. it may take years of hard tapasya.Intuition is a by product, the real siddhi being good qualities, lessening of desires,truthfulness,happiness without any cause,and vision of the maha devata.A mere wish of such a man can change the karma of some afflicted soul, depending upon the acquired tapas-sakti. so there are any number of methods to know the future, some unwanted and some grand.To quote an example, we have some Mooka-jyosishkas(dumb-astrologers) from Tamil nadu. One such man came to my house and without even looking at my wife, said "your wife was born on Monday". It was damn correct!!.Later he divulged his secret that he practises karna pisachi mantra. There are many such things in this world. regards satya. ________ India Matrimony: Find your partner now. Go to http://.shaadi.com SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Visit your group "" on the web. Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 Dear Arjun, Indeed, Saamudrika and astrology are interconnected but in correct sense it may not be good to group saamudrika under astrology since the 'exact' meaning of aster/astra is STAR. In the broad sense, it IS a branch of JYOTISHA and there should be no hesitation in sharing information. About my studies with CHAKRAs, I did not mean Yogic chakras, which form a different subject of inter-connectivity. The CHAKRAs mentioned in my reply to Mr.Balaji are JYOTISHA chakras like SarvatoBhadraChakra, NaDi chakra, Vedhaa chakra concerned with nakshatras. Though, I took interest in inter-relation between Yogic chakras, music and astrology while studying VeeNaa Rahasya, a classical text, still my research work on the subject is incomplete. I will surely let you know when it is complete. yours KAD , arjun pandit <panditarjun2004> wrote: > > dear sharma garu > > while appreciating your sharing knowledge on various ways of reading, my eldery brotherly suggestion is not to share information on kshudra sadhana and tantra sadhana in public forums as i have enough experience in these fields and have seen the ramifications both with my gurus and with myself. just for your information i preach what i practice. in both public and private domain, i advise any and every one to desist from getting lured to the tantric or kshudra sadhanas which are like playing with fire unless he is a lone person in the world and has detached completely. > > as brother ashutoshji rightly said, samudrika sastra was mastered by the elderly generations who used to predict without even speaking a word. each branch of predictive science is great in its own way and we appreciate all such branches without one being superior or inferior. > > as regards RR's observation of not straying into other branches other than vedic jyotish, i have asked the group owner tanvir ji about the same few months ago and he welcomed sharing knowledge on allied subjects as well and hence sharing of views and knowledge is welcome. > > i thank brother krishnanji's compliments which i duly pass on to all the gurus from whom i learnt the little. in fact i studied the tantra, mantra, yantra first and then started walking backwards and am studying astrology for the past five years. to take further RR's views, even as per astrology (vedic jyotish) also one can predict by seeing a person's physical characteristics as to what lagna the person is, as to what planets are exalted or debilitated and are in which houses. i have seen several great vedic jyotish astrologers (often living in unrecognised bylanes and who do not know how to use a computer) who predict just by seeing the person, PURELY BASED ON VEDIC JYOTISH. this is what i meant when said only a highly experienced astrologer can read backwards. similarly just by hearing the diseases suffering or hearing the description of problems faced, as per vedic jyotish, one can read backwards as to what dasa and antardasa the person is undergoing. honestly speaking, if > a person gives his/her precise birth details, the job of an astrologer is made easy in reading and analysing. but as krishnanji rightly observed, most visitors do not follow the remedies and keep visiting as many astrologers in the world as they can. by sticking to one astrologer, he/she would definitely get results. > > i personally felt shri. parthasarathy has tremendous knowledge (since he said that he got his third eye activated and use it for predictions) and even asked him to share some more knowledge on astrology and seven chakras a couple of weeks ago when he was sharing so much knowledge in so short a time , but unfortunately since then he is not available in this group. Kadrudraji in one of the mails mentioned that he is also studying on astrology and chakras and would request him to share any information on how to read the chakras based on astrolgy. > > the shankaracharya told that knowledge is like light and the more you share and gain knowledge, the more enlightened and illuminated one becomes. > > with best wishes > arjun > > "r.sathyanarayana sharma" <rssharmabza> wrote: > dear members, > > with due regards, i would like to share a few things > on the current topic of how predictions can be made > without the aid of charts. > > There are two areas to consider, > 1. Samudrika sastra or physiognomy: > Mind is the subtle body and body is gross mind. As are > the thoughts, so is the body. Yogis know this subtle > connection. So a continuous pattern of thinking will > bring changes in body accordingly. The first results > are seen in the eyes.The eyes of pious ones are > cool,restful,steady and without any color of passion. > The shape, length,texture,etc of all the limbs speak > volumes of the individual,if only we know how to read > that language. For example, it is common knowledge > among palmists that a clubbed thumb gives a cruel > mind. The ears, if the upper part of them is pointed > and lower part not hanging and close to the jaw will > make that person a murderer. If the ears are long and > broad,hanging will make a man wise and a sage.Like > this, every organ gives clues about the psychology and > mentality of the native. > > However, to know the future events, it requires a deep > knowledge of the samudrika sastra and a certain > advancement in yogic sadhana.Combining these two > tools, we can know the future events(or past > events)even without the aid of birth charts. > > 2. The second area is mantra sadhana. Without even > knowing about samudrika sastra, one can know the > future event through mantra sadhana. Now again in > this, there are ksudra mantras like > karna-pisaachini,vata-yakshina,vatuka-bhairava and a > host of minor mantras and maha mantras like Gayatri, > or the dasa maha vidyas etc. > > The ksudra mantras are easily gained siddhi in say 40 > days or so, but one has to continue giving > bali(sacrifice,not necessarily animal)daily to that > devata. Then it tells in the ear,many startling things > like name of the questioner,his date of birth,day of > birth,details of his family etc. But the future > predictions fail miserably, since the vision of the > devata is very limited. It cannot see the > future.Usually the end of these mantra-practitioners > is miserable. > > However, it is different with maha mantras.One knows > the future events "in a flash". But siddhi is not > easy. it may take years of hard tapasya.Intuition is a > by product, the real siddhi being good qualities, > lessening of desires,truthfulness,happiness without > any cause,and vision of the maha devata.A mere wish of > such a man can change the karma of some afflicted > soul, depending upon the acquired tapas-sakti. > > so there are any number of methods to know the future, > some unwanted and some grand.To quote an example, we > have some Mooka-jyosishkas(dumb-astrologers) from > Tamil nadu. One such man came to my house and without > even looking at my wife, said "your wife was born on > Monday". It was damn correct!!.Later he divulged his > secret that he practises karna pisachi mantra. > > There are many such things in this world. > regards > satya. > > > > > ________ > India Matrimony: Find your partner now. Go to http://.shaadi.com > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 You are misrepresenting and misquoting me. I have nothing against anyone discussing those here or wherever they wish. I am just expressing my views that all non-astrological divinatory crafts should not be mislabelled as *astrology* or part of it. This has nothing to do with those being valid tools and approaches for reading anyone's future or their compared status with astrology. They are just not astrology. I am surprised that such a straight forward statement was misunderstood and misrepresented! RR , arjun pandit <panditarjun2004> wrote: > >> > as regards RR's observation of not straying into other branches other than vedic jyotish, i have asked the group owner tanvir ji about the same few months ago and he welcomed sharing knowledge on allied subjects as well and hence sharing of views and knowledge is welcome. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 Dear Friends, The heat of the debates should not be to take away our maturity.After all opinions can differ as approaches are not identical.But there should not be any room to feel:"straight forward statement was misunderstood and misrepresented!" Let's join on issues like this and the day with refreshing/tickling Astrology,whatever way we can. Rohini ji,is categorical when he says:'valid tools and approaches for reading anyone's future" I am sure as already stated else where I am sure he likes to stick to his "last post" iam sure every one of us will not resort to desperate means to ravel future and land the subject in to piquancy.wherever we feel it is essential according to one's own approach may like to invoke the methods to foretell and guide people. In the group one of our member has been insisting me for some tantric methods which Shri Sharma ji has broadly cited in his mail.I declined to my friend to go beyond "84yogakshini"name being mentioned krishnan "Rohini (Crystal Pages)" <rrgb wrote: You are misrepresenting and misquoting me. I have nothing against anyone discussing those here or wherever they wish. I am just expressing my views that all non-astrological divinatory crafts should not be mislabelled as *astrology* or part of it. This has nothing to do with those being valid tools and approaches for reading anyone's future or their compared status with astrology. They are just not astrology. I am surprised that such a straight forward statement was misunderstood and misrepresented! RR , arjun pandit <panditarjun2004> wrote: > >> > as regards RR's observation of not straying into other branches other than vedic jyotish, i have asked the group owner tanvir ji about the same few months ago and he welcomed sharing knowledge on allied subjects as well and hence sharing of views and knowledge is welcome. > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Hindu astrology Vedic astrology Free vedic astrology Visit your group "" on the web. Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 point to the clarification.Kad rudra ji,what a nice professional approach!.God bless krishnan kadrudra <kadrudra wrote: Dear Arjun, Indeed, Saamudrika and astrology are interconnected but in correct sense it may not be good to group saamudrika under astrology since the 'exact' meaning of aster/astra is STAR. In the broad sense, it IS a branch of JYOTISHA and there should be no hesitation in sharing information. About my studies with CHAKRAs, I did not mean Yogic chakras, which form a different subject of inter-connectivity. The CHAKRAs mentioned in my reply to Mr.Balaji are JYOTISHA chakras like SarvatoBhadraChakra, NaDi chakra, Vedhaa chakra concerned with nakshatras. Though, I took interest in inter-relation between Yogic chakras, music and astrology while studying VeeNaa Rahasya, a classical text, still my research work on the subject is incomplete. I will surely let you know when it is complete. yours KAD , arjun pandit <panditarjun2004> wrote: > > dear sharma garu > > while appreciating your sharing knowledge on various ways of reading, my eldery brotherly suggestion is not to share information on kshudra sadhana and tantra sadhana in public forums as i have enough experience in these fields and have seen the ramifications both with my gurus and with myself. just for your information i preach what i practice. in both public and private domain, i advise any and every one to desist from getting lured to the tantric or kshudra sadhanas which are like playing with fire unless he is a lone person in the world and has detached completely. > > as brother ashutoshji rightly said, samudrika sastra was mastered by the elderly generations who used to predict without even speaking a word. each branch of predictive science is great in its own way and we appreciate all such branches without one being superior or inferior. > > as regards RR's observation of not straying into other branches other than vedic jyotish, i have asked the group owner tanvir ji about the same few months ago and he welcomed sharing knowledge on allied subjects as well and hence sharing of views and knowledge is welcome. > > i thank brother krishnanji's compliments which i duly pass on to all the gurus from whom i learnt the little. in fact i studied the tantra, mantra, yantra first and then started walking backwards and am studying astrology for the past five years. to take further RR's views, even as per astrology (vedic jyotish) also one can predict by seeing a person's physical characteristics as to what lagna the person is, as to what planets are exalted or debilitated and are in which houses. i have seen several great vedic jyotish astrologers (often living in unrecognised bylanes and who do not know how to use a computer) who predict just by seeing the person, PURELY BASED ON VEDIC JYOTISH. this is what i meant when said only a highly experienced astrologer can read backwards. similarly just by hearing the diseases suffering or hearing the description of problems faced, as per vedic jyotish, one can read backwards as to what dasa and antardasa the person is undergoing. honestly speaking, if > a person gives his/her precise birth details, the job of an astrologer is made easy in reading and analysing. but as krishnanji rightly observed, most visitors do not follow the remedies and keep visiting as many astrologers in the world as they can. by sticking to one astrologer, he/she would definitely get results. > > i personally felt shri. parthasarathy has tremendous knowledge (since he said that he got his third eye activated and use it for predictions) and even asked him to share some more knowledge on astrology and seven chakras a couple of weeks ago when he was sharing so much knowledge in so short a time , but unfortunately since then he is not available in this group. Kadrudraji in one of the mails mentioned that he is also studying on astrology and chakras and would request him to share any information on how to read the chakras based on astrolgy. > > the shankaracharya told that knowledge is like light and the more you share and gain knowledge, the more enlightened and illuminated one becomes. > > with best wishes > arjun > > "r.sathyanarayana sharma" <rssharmabza> wrote: > dear members, > > with due regards, i would like to share a few things > on the current topic of how predictions can be made > without the aid of charts. > > There are two areas to consider, > 1. Samudrika sastra or physiognomy: > Mind is the subtle body and body is gross mind. As are > the thoughts, so is the body. Yogis know this subtle > connection. So a continuous pattern of thinking will > bring changes in body accordingly. The first results > are seen in the eyes.The eyes of pious ones are > cool,restful,steady and without any color of passion. > The shape, length,texture,etc of all the limbs speak > volumes of the individual,if only we know how to read > that language. For example, it is common knowledge > among palmists that a clubbed thumb gives a cruel > mind. The ears, if the upper part of them is pointed > and lower part not hanging and close to the jaw will > make that person a murderer. If the ears are long and > broad,hanging will make a man wise and a sage.Like > this, every organ gives clues about the psychology and > mentality of the native. > > However, to know the future events, it requires a deep > knowledge of the samudrika sastra and a certain > advancement in yogic sadhana.Combining these two > tools, we can know the future events(or past > events)even without the aid of birth charts. > > 2. The second area is mantra sadhana. Without even > knowing about samudrika sastra, one can know the > future event through mantra sadhana. Now again in > this, there are ksudra mantras like > karna-pisaachini,vata-yakshina,vatuka-bhairava and a > host of minor mantras and maha mantras like Gayatri, > or the dasa maha vidyas etc. > > The ksudra mantras are easily gained siddhi in say 40 > days or so, but one has to continue giving > bali(sacrifice,not necessarily animal)daily to that > devata. Then it tells in the ear,many startling things > like name of the questioner,his date of birth,day of > birth,details of his family etc. But the future > predictions fail miserably, since the vision of the > devata is very limited. It cannot see the > future.Usually the end of these mantra-practitioners > is miserable. > > However, it is different with maha mantras.One knows > the future events "in a flash". But siddhi is not > easy. it may take years of hard tapasya.Intuition is a > by product, the real siddhi being good qualities, > lessening of desires,truthfulness,happiness without > any cause,and vision of the maha devata.A mere wish of > such a man can change the karma of some afflicted > soul, depending upon the acquired tapas-sakti. > > so there are any number of methods to know the future, > some unwanted and some grand.To quote an example, we > have some Mooka-jyosishkas(dumb-astrologers) from > Tamil nadu. One such man came to my house and without > even looking at my wife, said "your wife was born on > Monday". It was damn correct!!.Later he divulged his > secret that he practises karna pisachi mantra. > > There are many such things in this world. > regards > satya. > > > > > ________ > India Matrimony: Find your partner now. Go to http://.shaadi.com > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Hindu astrology Vedic astrology Free vedic astrology Visit your group "" on the web. Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Mr.Krishnan, I am not exactly sure what you were trying to say :-) but just so things are clear, I personally have no problem with people using or discussing any form of divinatory practices or possibilities on this or any other forums where those are acceptable to the moderator and even a few readers. Why do I have that position: a) I do not think astrology as we know it or as it is practiced is superior to any of these necessarily. It is more understandable because it has a framework of logic and hence more appealing to the modern mind, particularly scientific and rational minds. So there is instant familiarity and thus acceptance is easier. b) Astrology is not superior or even consistently more reproducible than some of the other divinatory techniques. I am not including the chicken feet charlatans but true practitioners of any and all divinatory crafts. I have seen individuals perform in their own fields of choosing, whether it is tarot, runes, yarrow, tarot or sand patterns and tea-leaves and even crystal balls etc. I have heard of psychics from reliable sources and their performance. I have heard of nadi readers. Any of these would match and even exceed the performance of astrology as it is practiced today. The outcomes may be unpredictable, the mindsets required to make these techniques work might be different and difficult to come by but when in the hands of an expert the outcome is comparable -- at least in my experience through observation. c) The advantage astrology has over these is that it can be learned by pretty much anyone. Now mind you, not everyone will become expert at it or would be able to turn it into a source of earning or be able to buy boats and mansions by practicing astrology but pretty much anyone who can think logically (or even many who cannot!) and has a moderate amount of intelligence and memory and has an eye for pattern identification and correlation can get quite ahead in astrology. It is truly something that is technical in that sense -- a craft that can be learned and techniques can be transferred from one individual to another if there is willing participation and interest in learning. d) When I say that all divinations particularly physiognomy and palm reading and so on should not be lumped with astrology under the label of astrology, it is not because these do not work or are not effective but just that these are different and distinctively different from astrology. It is true that Parashara includes some physiognomy in his predominantly astrology-based text, and more importantly it is also possible to draw the chart from palm lines and thumb impressions -- so the two modalities are linked at some level, somehow but they should not be lumped under one label. If we begin to do this indiscriminately, and this kind of fuzziness becomes a regular mental habit, it would adversely affect our ability to perform as ordinary astrologers (not including those who look at a person and tell their wife's first name or their birth data or even those that can produce a bird's egg from thin air!) because we depend on our faculties of pattern recognition and discrimination to carry out the type of analytical-synthetical astrology that most of us do. If we lose that terribly important faculty, then we would not be able to figure out which of the five factors or five combinations staring at us from a chart would really click in the case of the nativity. The fact of the matter is that this is the most confusing thing that people find in a chart, Like in medicine, diagnosis of the disease is more crucial because on that will depend what remedy you are going to prescribe. Remedies can be looked up in a book, using the analogy from medicine I say, but no patient comes with the diagnosis written on their forehead. These faculties are helped by keeping the mind pure, focused and not turn into a vegetable blender of sorts. This is where the insistence of older teachers and sages to keep the mind simple, pure etc is necessary for astrologers. There is nothing magical there, just common sense! A personal beef -- I find that we astrologers fight and quibble a lot more and get personal very quickly in any discussion. I also find that when people are confronted with simple questions such as " have you tried this technique vs the other" immediately everyone jumps in and begins talking about their success (without bothering to give specific details) or of their guru and then branch into other topics and lose focus. This overeagerness to write something, anything without giving significant information is not a healthy one. If one presses, as I sometimes have done in the past, eventually a few write about one or the other chart and often this has nothing to do with the original topic but a drift into something else! Is this because people are not studying charts any more? Or not seriously?? Well that is not very encouraging. That is all I have to say. What I liked about Gurmeet's recent posts was that though he was confronting recent statements and practices and biases in astrology and perhaps in a confrontational and direct manner, he was also talking about charts, giving his analysis. He did not move away from astrology. I wish we can all learn from that. Twisted minds might see this as a bias because he extolled the use of nakshatras or praised me for writing on that topic etc. I am sick and tired of all the politics that runs deep in jyotish these days, something that I have always shunned and thank god I did, even if it did not gain me any friends but rather the opposite. This culture of secrecy and sycophancy must end or we would just be pushing back jyotish into the dark ages, perhaps for the first time, since its inception or revelation to the human beings! RR , vattem krishnan <bursar_99> wrote: > > > Dear Friends, > The heat of the debates should not be to take away our maturity.After all opinions can differ as approaches are not identical.But there should not be any room to feel:"straight forward statement was misunderstood and misrepresented!" > Let's join on issues like this and the day with refreshing/tickling Astrology,whatever way we can. > Rohini ji,is categorical when he says:'valid tools and approaches for reading anyone's future" > I am sure as already stated else where I am sure he likes to stick to his "last post" > iam sure every one of us will not resort to desperate means to ravel future and land the subject in to piquancy.wherever we feel it is essential according to one's own approach may like to invoke the methods to foretell and guide people. > In the group one of our member has been insisting me for some tantric methods which Shri Sharma ji has broadly cited in his mail.I declined to my friend to go beyond "84yogakshini"name being mentioned > krishnan > > > "Rohini (Crystal Pages)" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > You are misrepresenting and misquoting me. I have nothing against > anyone discussing those here or wherever they wish. I am just > expressing my views that all non-astrological divinatory crafts should > not be mislabelled as *astrology* or part of it. This has nothing to do > with those being valid tools and approaches for reading anyone's future > or their compared status with astrology. They are just not astrology. > > I am surprised that such a straight forward statement was misunderstood > and misrepresented! > > RR > > > > , arjun pandit > <panditarjun2004> wrote: > > > >> > > as regards RR's observation of not straying into other branches other > than vedic jyotish, i have asked the group owner tanvir ji about the > same few months ago and he welcomed sharing knowledge on allied > subjects as well and hence sharing of views and knowledge is welcome. > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > Hindu astrology Vedic astrology Free vedic astrology > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Dear Rohini ji, I was seriously applying all these listed by you and in agreement pl Astrology and alleid fields are different: as astrology has: a framework of logic truly something that is technical in that sense -- a craft that can be learned and techniques can be transferred from one individual Astrology if needs to be ushered into modern era it requires: also talking about charts, giving his analysis. He did not move away from people are not studying charts any more? Or not seriously?? Well that is not very encouraging Allied fields(not Astrology): in the hands of an expert the outcome (through other allied fields)is comparable to another these are different and distinctively different from astrology Perfectly agreeable and need to take the concepts seriously "Rohini (Crystal Pages)" <rrgb wrote: Mr.Krishnan, I am not exactly sure what you were trying to say :-) but just so things are clear, I personally have no problem with people using or discussing any form of divinatory practices or possibilities on this or any other forums where those are acceptable to the moderator and even a few readers. Why do I have that position: a) I do not think astrology as we know it or as it is practiced is superior to any of these necessarily. It is more understandable because it has a framework of logic and hence more appealing to the modern mind, particularly scientific and rational minds. So there is instant familiarity and thus acceptance is easier. b) Astrology is not superior or even consistently more reproducible than some of the other divinatory techniques. I am not including the chicken feet charlatans but true practitioners of any and all divinatory crafts. I have seen individuals perform in their own fields of choosing, whether it is tarot, runes, yarrow, tarot or sand patterns and tea-leaves and even crystal balls etc. I have heard of psychics from reliable sources and their performance. I have heard of nadi readers. Any of these would match and even exceed the performance of astrology as it is practiced today. The outcomes may be unpredictable, the mindsets required to make these techniques work might be different and difficult to come by but when in the hands of an expert the outcome is comparable -- at least in my experience through observation. c) The advantage astrology has over these is that it can be learned by pretty much anyone. Now mind you, not everyone will become expert at it or would be able to turn it into a source of earning or be able to buy boats and mansions by practicing astrology but pretty much anyone who can think logically (or even many who cannot!) and has a moderate amount of intelligence and memory and has an eye for pattern identification and correlation can get quite ahead in astrology. It is truly something that is technical in that sense -- a craft that can be learned and techniques can be transferred from one individual to another if there is willing participation and interest in learning. d) When I say that all divinations particularly physiognomy and palm reading and so on should not be lumped with astrology under the label of astrology, it is not because these do not work or are not effective but just that these are different and distinctively different from astrology. It is true that Parashara includes some physiognomy in his predominantly astrology-based text, and more importantly it is also possible to draw the chart from palm lines and thumb impressions -- so the two modalities are linked at some level, somehow but they should not be lumped under one label. If we begin to do this indiscriminately, and this kind of fuzziness becomes a regular mental habit, it would adversely affect our ability to perform as ordinary astrologers (not including those who look at a person and tell their wife's first name or their birth data or even those that can produce a bird's egg from thin air!) because we depend on our faculties of pattern recognition and discrimination to carry out the type of analytical-synthetical astrology that most of us do. If we lose that terribly important faculty, then we would not be able to figure out which of the five factors or five combinations staring at us from a chart would really click in the case of the nativity. The fact of the matter is that this is the most confusing thing that people find in a chart, Like in medicine, diagnosis of the disease is more crucial because on that will depend what remedy you are going to prescribe. Remedies can be looked up in a book, using the analogy from medicine I say, but no patient comes with the diagnosis written on their forehead. These faculties are helped by keeping the mind pure, focused and not turn into a vegetable blender of sorts. This is where the insistence of older teachers and sages to keep the mind simple, pure etc is necessary for astrologers. There is nothing magical there, just common sense! A personal beef -- I find that we astrologers fight and quibble a lot more and get personal very quickly in any discussion. I also find that when people are confronted with simple questions such as " have you tried this technique vs the other" immediately everyone jumps in and begins talking about their success (without bothering to give specific details) or of their guru and then branch into other topics and lose focus. This overeagerness to write something, anything without giving significant information is not a healthy one. If one presses, as I sometimes have done in the past, eventually a few write about one or the other chart and often this has nothing to do with the original topic but a drift into something else! Is this because people are not studying charts any more? Or not seriously?? Well that is not very encouraging. That is all I have to say. What I liked about Gurmeet's recent posts was that though he was confronting recent statements and practices and biases in astrology and perhaps in a confrontational and direct manner, he was also talking about charts, giving his analysis. He did not move away from astrology. I wish we can all learn from that. Twisted minds might see this as a bias because he extolled the use of nakshatras or praised me for writing on that topic etc. I am sick and tired of all the politics that runs deep in jyotish these days, something that I have always shunned and thank god I did, even if it did not gain me any friends but rather the opposite. This culture of secrecy and sycophancy must end or we would just be pushing back jyotish into the dark ages, perhaps for the first time, since its inception or revelation to the human beings! RR , vattem krishnan <bursar_99> wrote: > > > Dear Friends, > The heat of the debates should not be to take away our maturity.After all opinions can differ as approaches are not identical.But there should not be any room to feel:"straight forward statement was misunderstood and misrepresented!" > Let's join on issues like this and the day with refreshing/tickling Astrology,whatever way we can. > Rohini ji,is categorical when he says:'valid tools and approaches for reading anyone's future" > I am sure as already stated else where I am sure he likes to stick to his "last post" > iam sure every one of us will not resort to desperate means to ravel future and land the subject in to piquancy.wherever we feel it is essential according to one's own approach may like to invoke the methods to foretell and guide people. > In the group one of our member has been insisting me for some tantric methods which Shri Sharma ji has broadly cited in his mail.I declined to my friend to go beyond "84yogakshini"name being mentioned > krishnan > > > "Rohini (Crystal Pages)" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > You are misrepresenting and misquoting me. I have nothing against > anyone discussing those here or wherever they wish. I am just > expressing my views that all non-astrological divinatory crafts should > not be mislabelled as *astrology* or part of it. This has nothing to do > with those being valid tools and approaches for reading anyone's future > or their compared status with astrology. They are just not astrology. > > I am surprised that such a straight forward statement was misunderstood > and misrepresented! > > RR > > > > , arjun pandit > <panditarjun2004> wrote: > > > >> > > as regards RR's observation of not straying into other branches other > than vedic jyotish, i have asked the group owner tanvir ji about the > same few months ago and he welcomed sharing knowledge on allied > subjects as well and hence sharing of views and knowledge is welcome. > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > Hindu astrology Vedic astrology Free vedic astrology > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Hindu astrology Vedic astrology Free vedic astrology Visit your group "" on the web. 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