Cesearian Birth !! (Invitro Fertilization is ok?)

[Guest guest]

To all members:

 

I wonder what the sages would say about using invitro fertization

technology to have a baby in this present time. Should this

technology be encouraged? Or, do the shastras have any prohibition

against such technology?

 

Regards,

 

John R.

 

 

 

 

 

 

, "kadrudra" <kadrudra>

wrote:

> Dear friend,

>

> May look funny, but the caerasean births are AYONI JANMA and astro-

> classical texts

> deal with great details. Also there are astro-dictum available for

> judging FORCED birth.

> There are also great details in astro-classical texts

> describing 'shastra ghaata' to

> the mother while a native is born ie use of a weapon at birth.

> Besides, there is a wonderful DEFINITION of 'birth' according sages:

>

> kritevAdhAnalagnam tu tretAyAm puMsavanam(jalodayam) tathA |

> dvApare shIrshodayam syAt kalau bhUpatanam smr.tam ||

>

> which means:

> The Lagna defining the time of birth shall correspond to conception

> in KritaYuga,

> pumsavana process(some say jalodaya = burst of water bag around the

> baby) in TretaYuga,

> the rise of HEAD(or body in general) of the baby at birth in

> DvaparaYuga and

> the GROUND-TOUCH of the baby in KaliYuga ie now.

> How genius were they to anticipate techno advances!

>

> So, even now, in kaliyuga, in which caesarean birth are becoming

more

> in number, still

> the dictum is clear and holds good! Whether the birth is natural

(even

> if it is unnatural or supernatural)

> a birth is a BIRTH now only at the ground-touch moment of the baby,

> astrologically!

> Ground here is EARTHY existence and is not to be confused with real

> sand or land touching the baby.

>

> Hope I am clear!

> yours

> KAD

>

>

>

> , "ashwin_062k"

> <ashwin_062k> wrote:

> > Dear Gurujans !!

> >

> > In the present day moden world with technological advancement,

> > cesearian cases have become a regular feature for birth of a

> child. I

> > have come across few cases where parents even decide the date and

> time

> > in which the operation to be undertaken.

> >

> > These things rises a question in my mind about the correctness of

> > predictions by any astrologer based on chart to that of the fate

of

> the

> > soul which is pre-defined by HIM.

> >

> > Regards

> > Sridhar

[Guest guest]

Dear John,

 

As I already wrote in my other post, IVF or fertilization external to

womb is not a

new concept to Vedic culture. There are many examples available in

Vedic history like:

 

1.Sage Agastya and Sage VasiShTha - were born in a water-pitcher when

Mitra and Varuna

placed their seeds in it wishing to get Urvashi, the nymph.

2.Acharya Drona - was born in a bowl(=droNa) when the semen of

Maharshi Bharadwaja leaked into

it on seeing a nymph named Ghritachi.

3.ShaNmukha - son of Shiva was born due to release of REATS of Shiva

into space, carried

by Agni to six star-women of Krittika(Pleidas).

4.Matsya Hanuman - was born when a drop of semen from Hanuman

crossing the Indian Ocean fell into

the mouth of a Matasya Kanya - a mermaid/fish below.

.....there are so many other examples too...the list continues.....

 

The Kauravas of Mahabharata were born by CLONING technique, which was

already known!

So, all these were considered LEGAL births and Shastra or sages

accepted them, for they

were needed for a great cause. All those births resulted in great

persons; becasue they were planned so!

 

Can we guarantee now? Surely, we do not have that capacity to judge;

and the YUGA is different!

 

yours humbly

KAD

 

 

 

, "John" <jr_esq> wrote:

> To all members:

>

> I wonder what the sages would say about using invitro fertization

> technology to have a baby in this present time. Should this

> technology be encouraged? Or, do the shastras have any prohibition

> against such technology?

>

> Regards,

>

> John R.

, "kadrudra" <kadrudra>

> wrote:

> > Dear friend,

> >

> > May look funny, but the caerasean births are AYONI JANMA and

astro-

> > classical texts

> > deal with great details. Also there are astro-dictum available

for

> > judging FORCED birth.

> > There are also great details in astro-classical texts

> > describing 'shastra ghaata' to

> > the mother while a native is born ie use of a weapon at birth.

> > Besides, there is a wonderful DEFINITION of 'birth' according

sages:

> >

> > kritevAdhAnalagnam tu tretAyAm puMsavanam(jalodayam) tathA |

> > dvApare shIrshodayam syAt kalau bhUpatanam smr.tam ||

> >

> > which means:

> > The Lagna defining the time of birth shall correspond to

conception

> > in KritaYuga,

> > pumsavana process(some say jalodaya = burst of water bag around

the

> > baby) in TretaYuga,

> > the rise of HEAD(or body in general) of the baby at birth in

> > DvaparaYuga and

> > the GROUND-TOUCH of the baby in KaliYuga ie now.

> > How genius were they to anticipate techno advances!

> >

> > So, even now, in kaliyuga, in which caesarean birth are becoming

> more

> > in number, still

> > the dictum is clear and holds good! Whether the birth is natural

> (even

> > if it is unnatural or supernatural)

> > a birth is a BIRTH now only at the ground-touch moment of the

baby,

> > astrologically!

> > Ground here is EARTHY existence and is not to be confused with

real

> > sand or land touching the baby.

> >

> > Hope I am clear!

> > yours

> > KAD

> >

> >

> >

> > , "ashwin_062k"

> > <ashwin_062k> wrote:

> > > Dear Gurujans !!

> > >

> > > In the present day moden world with technological advancement,

> > > cesearian cases have become a regular feature for birth of a

> > child. I

> > > have come across few cases where parents even decide the date

and

> > time

> > > in which the operation to be undertaken.

> > >

> > > These things rises a question in my mind about the correctness

of

> > > predictions by any astrologer based on chart to that of the

fate

> of

> > the

> > > soul which is pre-defined by HIM.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > > Sridhar

[Guest guest]

Namaste Kadruda,

 

Thanks for summary of unusual birth cases from the shatras. However,

I still have doubts in the interpretations of these stories.

Sanskrit is a complicated language and the translators may have

missed the intent of the authors from the shastras.

 

>From what I understand, Sanskrit relies heavily on sound to convey a

deeper meaning than what the literal word represents. As such, we

may need to understand the figurative and symbolic language to

understand its meaning. Or, as in the Rig Veda, the Sanskrit

passages can never be translated as the sound of the passage conveys

the message (some say mathematical in nature and can only be directly

processed by the brain), whether we understand them or not.

 

Regards,

 

John R.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, "kadrudra" <kadrudra>

wrote:

> Dear John,

>

> As I already wrote in my other post, IVF or fertilization external

to

> womb is not a

> new concept to Vedic culture. There are many examples available in

> Vedic history like:

>

> 1.Sage Agastya and Sage VasiShTha - were born in a water-pitcher

when

> Mitra and Varuna

> placed their seeds in it wishing to get Urvashi, the nymph.

> 2.Acharya Drona - was born in a bowl(=droNa) when the semen of

> Maharshi Bharadwaja leaked into

> it on seeing a nymph named Ghritachi.

> 3.ShaNmukha - son of Shiva was born due to release of REATS of

Shiva

> into space, carried

> by Agni to six star-women of Krittika(Pleidas).

> 4.Matsya Hanuman - was born when a drop of semen from Hanuman

> crossing the Indian Ocean fell into

> the mouth of a Matasya Kanya - a mermaid/fish below.

> ....there are so many other examples too...the list continues.....

>

> The Kauravas of Mahabharata were born by CLONING technique, which

was

> already known!

> So, all these were considered LEGAL births and Shastra or sages

> accepted them, for they

> were needed for a great cause. All those births resulted in great

> persons; becasue they were planned so!

>

> Can we guarantee now? Surely, we do not have that capacity to

judge;

> and the YUGA is different!

>

> yours humbly

> KAD

>

>

>

> , "John" <jr_esq> wrote:

> > To all members:

> >

> > I wonder what the sages would say about using invitro fertization

> > technology to have a baby in this present time. Should this

> > technology be encouraged? Or, do the shastras have any

prohibition

> > against such technology?

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > John R.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , "kadrudra"

<kadrudra>

> > wrote:

> > > Dear friend,

> > >

> > > May look funny, but the caerasean births are AYONI JANMA and

> astro-

> > > classical texts

> > > deal with great details. Also there are astro-dictum available

> for

> > > judging FORCED birth.

> > > There are also great details in astro-classical texts

> > > describing 'shastra ghaata' to

> > > the mother while a native is born ie use of a weapon at birth.

> > > Besides, there is a wonderful DEFINITION of 'birth' according

> sages:

> > >

> > > kritevAdhAnalagnam tu tretAyAm puMsavanam(jalodayam) tathA |

> > > dvApare shIrshodayam syAt kalau bhUpatanam smr.tam ||

> > >

> > > which means:

> > > The Lagna defining the time of birth shall correspond to

> conception

> > > in KritaYuga,

> > > pumsavana process(some say jalodaya = burst of water bag around

> the

> > > baby) in TretaYuga,

> > > the rise of HEAD(or body in general) of the baby at birth in

> > > DvaparaYuga and

> > > the GROUND-TOUCH of the baby in KaliYuga ie now.

> > > How genius were they to anticipate techno advances!

> > >

> > > So, even now, in kaliyuga, in which caesarean birth are

becoming

> > more

> > > in number, still

> > > the dictum is clear and holds good! Whether the birth is natural

> > (even

> > > if it is unnatural or supernatural)

> > > a birth is a BIRTH now only at the ground-touch moment of the

> baby,

> > > astrologically!

> > > Ground here is EARTHY existence and is not to be confused with

> real

> > > sand or land touching the baby.

> > >

> > > Hope I am clear!

> > > yours

> > > KAD

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , "ashwin_062k"

> > > <ashwin_062k> wrote:

> > > > Dear Gurujans !!

> > > >

> > > > In the present day moden world with technological

advancement,

> > > > cesearian cases have become a regular feature for birth of a

> > > child. I

> > > > have come across few cases where parents even decide the date

> and

> > > time

> > > > in which the operation to be undertaken.

> > > >

> > > > These things rises a question in my mind about the

correctness

> of

> > > > predictions by any astrologer based on chart to that of the

> fate

> > of

> > > the

> > > > soul which is pre-defined by HIM.

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > > Sridhar

[Guest guest]

dear John,

 

Well, when you say Sanskrit emphasises on sound - yes it does; but

mostly in Vedas and not in all works.

Because, Vedas were not composed but believed to be RECEIVED directly

from God. To me, it occurs that

the Vedas must have been FELT by the Yogis or sages in penance, which

they coded in Sanskrit.

 

Coming to mythological and historical events described, none can

assure that surely IT IS SO!

If we go on suspecting encoded knowledge even in verses of BPHS, we

may hit at some new thing!

But we are not strong enough to do so and accept that BPHS is about

astrology and nothing else, at least for now.

So for a materialistic astro-prediction, it is enough to take direct

meaning of the verses.

 

It does not mean, obviously, that they are just 'what they are', but

none knows their 'deeper meaning'.

As you rightly said, none can TRANSLATE Vedas, in their real sense.

It is something like

explaining the taste of a wonderful fruit you ate! Unless others eat

it, it is never understood!

Explaining Vedas on mathematical, astronomical, philosophical...or

whatever other view one has,

will still keep the reader wondering about them. Whatever one

explains about the colour,

sweetness, smell, appearance, texture....the TASTE is never

understood!

 

So, for time being, we are just imagining the fruit we never ate;

that will suffice for

our materialistic results needed in astrology. The yogis have their

own way..their own

tastebuds..their own fruit to eat! At that state, they do not require

the eye of astrology!

 

yours

KAD

 

 

, "John" <jr_esq> wrote:

> Namaste Kadruda,

>

> Thanks for summary of unusual birth cases from the shatras.

However,

> I still have doubts in the interpretations of these stories.

> Sanskrit is a complicated language and the translators may have

> missed the intent of the authors from the shastras.

>

> From what I understand, Sanskrit relies heavily on sound to convey

a

> deeper meaning than what the literal word represents. As such, we

> may need to understand the figurative and symbolic language to

> understand its meaning. Or, as in the Rig Veda, the Sanskrit

> passages can never be translated as the sound of the passage

conveys

> the message (some say mathematical in nature and can only be

directly

> processed by the brain), whether we understand them or not.

>

> Regards,

>

> John R.

>

>

, "kadrudra" <kadrudra>

> wrote:

> > Dear John,

> >

> > As I already wrote in my other post, IVF or fertilization

external

> to

> > womb is not a

> > new concept to Vedic culture. There are many examples available

in

> > Vedic history like:

> >

> > 1.Sage Agastya and Sage VasiShTha - were born in a water-pitcher

> when

> > Mitra and Varuna

> > placed their seeds in it wishing to get Urvashi, the nymph.

> > 2.Acharya Drona - was born in a bowl(=droNa) when the semen of

> > Maharshi Bharadwaja leaked into

> > it on seeing a nymph named Ghritachi.

> > 3.ShaNmukha - son of Shiva was born due to release of REATS of

> Shiva

> > into space, carried

> > by Agni to six star-women of Krittika(Pleidas).

> > 4.Matsya Hanuman - was born when a drop of semen from Hanuman

> > crossing the Indian Ocean fell into

> > the mouth of a Matasya Kanya - a mermaid/fish below.

> > ....there are so many other examples too...the list continues.....

> >

> > The Kauravas of Mahabharata were born by CLONING technique, which

> was

> > already known!

> > So, all these were considered LEGAL births and Shastra or sages

> > accepted them, for they

> > were needed for a great cause. All those births resulted in great

> > persons; becasue they were planned so!

> >

> > Can we guarantee now? Surely, we do not have that capacity to

> judge;

> > and the YUGA is different!

> >

> > yours humbly

> > KAD

> >

> >

> >

> > , "John" <jr_esq>

wrote:

> > > To all members:

> > >

> > > I wonder what the sages would say about using invitro

fertization

> > > technology to have a baby in this present time. Should this

> > > technology be encouraged? Or, do the shastras have any

> prohibition

> > > against such technology?

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > John R.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , "kadrudra"

> <kadrudra>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Dear friend,

> > > >

> > > > May look funny, but the caerasean births are AYONI JANMA and

> > astro-

> > > > classical texts

> > > > deal with great details. Also there are astro-dictum

available

> > for

> > > > judging FORCED birth.

> > > > There are also great details in astro-classical texts

> > > > describing 'shastra ghaata' to

> > > > the mother while a native is born ie use of a weapon at birth.

> > > > Besides, there is a wonderful DEFINITION of 'birth' according

> > sages:

> > > >

> > > > kritevAdhAnalagnam tu tretAyAm puMsavanam(jalodayam) tathA |

> > > > dvApare shIrshodayam syAt kalau bhUpatanam smr.tam ||

> > > >

> > > > which means:

> > > > The Lagna defining the time of birth shall correspond to

> > conception

> > > > in KritaYuga,

> > > > pumsavana process(some say jalodaya = burst of water bag

around

> > the

> > > > baby) in TretaYuga,

> > > > the rise of HEAD(or body in general) of the baby at birth in

> > > > DvaparaYuga and

> > > > the GROUND-TOUCH of the baby in KaliYuga ie now.

> > > > How genius were they to anticipate techno advances!

> > > >

> > > > So, even now, in kaliyuga, in which caesarean birth are

> becoming

> > > more

> > > > in number, still

> > > > the dictum is clear and holds good! Whether the birth is

natural

> > > (even

> > > > if it is unnatural or supernatural)

> > > > a birth is a BIRTH now only at the ground-touch moment of the

> > baby,

> > > > astrologically!

> > > > Ground here is EARTHY existence and is not to be confused

with

> > real

> > > > sand or land touching the baby.

> > > >

> > > > Hope I am clear!

> > > > yours

> > > > KAD

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "ashwin_062k"

> > > > <ashwin_062k> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Gurujans !!

> > > > >

> > > > > In the present day moden world with technological

> advancement,

> > > > > cesearian cases have become a regular feature for birth of

a

> > > > child. I

> > > > > have come across few cases where parents even decide the

date

> > and

> > > > time

> > > > > in which the operation to be undertaken.

> > > > >

> > > > > These things rises a question in my mind about the

> correctness

> > of

> > > > > predictions by any astrologer based on chart to that of the

> > fate

> > > of

> > > > the

> > > > > soul which is pre-defined by HIM.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > > Sridhar

[Guest guest]

Dear KADji

from the post, one can understand that u r well-read of our puranas.

emphasising the last sentence you wrote, since kali yuga is different from its

previous three predecessors, and dharam is ruling on one pada instead of 4 in

satya yuga, for this yuga, those who protect the dharma are protected and

blessed by god. in recent posts, few members had observed their scepticism in

rituals. arya samaj has shown with evidence how an entire family in bhopal was

saved in the dreaded gasleak decades ago only because of their daily havan which

did not allow killer gases to land onto them and their entire family was saved.

even lord saibaba (a muslim) performed daily havan and his divine miracles need

no explanation. so my only request to those who cannot follow rituals or believe

in rituals is not to brand them as orthodox or useless.

with best wishes

arjun

 

kadrudra <kadrudra wrote:

Dear John,

 

As I already wrote in my other post, IVF or fertilization external to

womb is not a

new concept to Vedic culture. There are many examples available in

Vedic history like:

 

1.Sage Agastya and Sage VasiShTha - were born in a water-pitcher when

Mitra and Varuna

placed their seeds in it wishing to get Urvashi, the nymph.

2.Acharya Drona - was born in a bowl(=droNa) when the semen of

Maharshi Bharadwaja leaked into

it on seeing a nymph named Ghritachi.

3.ShaNmukha - son of Shiva was born due to release of REATS of Shiva

into space, carried

by Agni to six star-women of Krittika(Pleidas).

4.Matsya Hanuman - was born when a drop of semen from Hanuman

crossing the Indian Ocean fell into

the mouth of a Matasya Kanya - a mermaid/fish below.

.....there are so many other examples too...the list continues.....

 

The Kauravas of Mahabharata were born by CLONING technique, which was

already known!

So, all these were considered LEGAL births and Shastra or sages

accepted them, for they

were needed for a great cause. All those births resulted in great

persons; becasue they were planned so!

 

Can we guarantee now? Surely, we do not have that capacity to judge;

and the YUGA is different!

 

yours humbly

KAD

 

 

 

, "John" <jr_esq> wrote:

> To all members:

>

> I wonder what the sages would say about using invitro fertization

> technology to have a baby in this present time. Should this

> technology be encouraged? Or, do the shastras have any prohibition

> against such technology?

>

> Regards,

>

> John R.

, "kadrudra" <kadrudra>

> wrote:

> > Dear friend,

> >

> > May look funny, but the caerasean births are AYONI JANMA and

astro-

> > classical texts

> > deal with great details. Also there are astro-dictum available

for

> > judging FORCED birth.

> > There are also great details in astro-classical texts

> > describing 'shastra ghaata' to

> > the mother while a native is born ie use of a weapon at birth.

> > Besides, there is a wonderful DEFINITION of 'birth' according

sages:

> >

> > kritevAdhAnalagnam tu tretAyAm puMsavanam(jalodayam) tathA |

> > dvApare shIrshodayam syAt kalau bhUpatanam smr.tam ||

> >

> > which means:

> > The Lagna defining the time of birth shall correspond to

conception

> > in KritaYuga,

> > pumsavana process(some say jalodaya = burst of water bag around

the

> > baby) in TretaYuga,

> > the rise of HEAD(or body in general) of the baby at birth in

> > DvaparaYuga and

> > the GROUND-TOUCH of the baby in KaliYuga ie now.

> > How genius were they to anticipate techno advances!

> >

> > So, even now, in kaliyuga, in which caesarean birth are becoming

> more

> > in number, still

> > the dictum is clear and holds good! Whether the birth is natural

> (even

> > if it is unnatural or supernatural)

> > a birth is a BIRTH now only at the ground-touch moment of the

baby,

> > astrologically!

> > Ground here is EARTHY existence and is not to be confused with

real

> > sand or land touching the baby.

> >

> > Hope I am clear!

> > yours

> > KAD

> >

> >

> >

> > , "ashwin_062k"

> > <ashwin_062k> wrote:

> > > Dear Gurujans !!

> > >

> > > In the present day moden world with technological advancement,

> > > cesearian cases have become a regular feature for birth of a

> > child. I

> > > have come across few cases where parents even decide the date

and

> > time

> > > in which the operation to be undertaken.

> > >

> > > These things rises a question in my mind about the correctness

of

> > > predictions by any astrologer based on chart to that of the

fate

> of

> > the

> > > soul which is pre-defined by HIM.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > > Sridhar

 

 

 

 

 

 

SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF

ABSOLUTE BLISS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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