In Response to MS Regarding Mark Kincaid, Part Two

[Guest guest]

MS,

 

The issue is not whether we can "all just get along"; the issue is,

whether the canons of Jyotish are being adhered to and respected.

There is nothing personal about it, no need to call anyone names, any

of that. The bottomline is, if what I write regarding Jyotish is

patently inaccurate, without source or preceedant, than I am as

deserving of derision as anyone else.

 

Period.

 

My reason for mentioning a short list of my activities was in direct

response to your assertion that I bring nothing "positive" here or

anywhere else. Tanvir knows me relatively well, and he knows of my

stuff.

 

What should be obvious is I like to get the facts straight, to get

the thinking right. I like people to have as much accurate

information possible, because I know, like a great many others, that

there are loads and loads of folks who hang out shingles and call

themselves astrologers and are basically fleecing the hell outta

people. I see it all the time, and again, hey people have the right

to be suckers, but I also have the right to call those who fleece on

the carpet.

 

Your suggestion of conducting a "poll" shows that you may be more

ignorant than just about me or astrology, for anyone versed in

statistics knows that doing such a thing proves nothing. That's why I

toom the pains to mention all of the sources I did. The issue here -

and please keep in mind that I DID NOT MAKE THIS UP MYSELF is this -

according to the accepted and agreed upon practice and theory of

Vedic astrology, is Mark Kincaid in line with that or not??? It's a

very simple question that anyone versed in Jyotish can easily answer;

perhaps Tanvir would be so kind to offer his own answer.

 

I have found that when people have challenged 9th Houses, the meaning

for them is to seek out the Truth for themselves, not relying on

teachers solely. In fact, the fact that a person with a bad 9th

experiences so much pain in that area, is a clear proof that they

need to hunker down much more than the person who has a pristine 9th.

Now, make no mistake, such experiences aren't things most of us would

want. Nevertheless, like the malefics in general in Jyotish, such

things are true character builders.

 

So, when you have someone like me - who has 9th lord Sun in the 12th

and conjunct 7 and 10 lord Mercury - I have a very hard time just

accepting anything on its face, no matter who said it. ONLY after I

have thoroughly gone through all the facts, only after I have

conducted my own investigation of the truth, do I accept - or reject -

something. As we all know (maybe you don't), the 12th House is "the

heart of God" - so I like to get to the bottom of things, or truth.

 

I'm all for respecting each other, doing the Barney/Purple Dinosaur

thing, but I'm also for getting the facts straight.

 

The Truth Needs no Defense.

 

Salaam,

Mu

 

, "myst070" <myst070>

wrote:

> Yes, indeed my mail may be ignorant and I may be ignorant, but I am

> not rigid and I respect others.

>

> I need no proof of the lists you are in and the kind of work u have

> done. I just said that here on this list I havn't seen any positive

> contribution from you, other than criticising Mark (and that I wont

> call positive).

>

> Obviously u like to argue - see the language u have used - scene of

> crime, exhibit A etc. I have no such passions. Let us put this

issue

> to rest by having a poll of whether people have benefitted from

> Mark's views. (Mr. Tanvir - A request to U) So that we can stop

> pointing fingers at each other and learn from whatever little we

all

> know and can share.

>

> I have observed that the more we learn, the more humble we become -

> as we realise how little we know and how much more there is to

learn.

>

> Yes, and u are right about my knowing about the Guru part. And that

> is the reason I respect others' Gurus. When u will have the grace

of

> a Guru and his protective hand on your head, u will realise that

such

> things cannot be understood by logic and mere intellect, nor can

they

> be put in words.

>

> I feel strongly that we need to respect each other and not just

feed

> our egos.

>

> I stand by my mail.

>

> MS

>

[Guest guest]

You are very right Sir that "The Truth Needs no Defense".

What are U trying to defend?

Jyotish?

And isn't that the truth?

Or maybe U are yet to reach the conclusion!

 

I see your point of view now - the issue for U is "whether the canons

of Jyotish are being adhered to and respected." And for that you

think U have the right to be disrespectful. Though in theory U

are "all for respecting each other", but actually U can respect only

those who see your point of view. And you also get that right because

Mr.Tanvir knows your work? Is that what U think?

 

You say "I like people to have as much accurate information

possible". Then please give us that information. You are only wasting

your time and energy in critising others. There are so many people

who want help and advice. There are so many people who are trying to

give them that - each one according to his own level of understanding

and interpretation. You also give. Who's stopping you? Each one's

work will speak for itself. There is no need to judge.

 

I have said very clearly earlier that I am talking only about this

list and your contribution here. Yet U go on harping about your

contibution elsewhere.

 

Our culture teaches us acceptance. When Gautam Buddha refused to

conform to the norms of his times and found his own path, he was

called Bhagwan (God). This is the kind acceptance our culture

teaches - our culture.....of which Jyotish is a part..........of

which U claim to be a guardian.

 

I have not known anyone who has risen by pulling others down. And

nobody is indespensible. After U also, there will be learners and

teachers of this knowledge.

 

I hope that some day U understand that without the soul, the body u

hold, is a dead body.

 

I have nothing more to add to this conversation now. I have made my

view clear. I think we should respect each other and your mail

against Mark was in bad taste. Maybe you'll want to justify further

that what I find as "bad taste" is actually good for U. Maybe. But

someday you'll undersatand the importance of respecting others,

however different their views maybe. And someday U will also know

that there is a place for U and for for Mark and for all of us, and

that Jyotish doesn't need your defence. It is strong enough to stand

on its own.

 

I hope you will contribute positively to this list also, like U say U

have been on other lists, so that everyone can benefit from the

knowledge u have.

 

Namaste.

 

MS

 

 

 

 

, "MuMin Bey" <mumin_bey>

wrote:

> MS,

>

> The issue is not whether we can "all just get along"; the issue is,

> whether the canons of Jyotish are being adhered to and respected.

> There is nothing personal about it, no need to call anyone names,

any

> of that. The bottomline is, if what I write regarding Jyotish is

> patently inaccurate, without source or preceedant, than I am as

> deserving of derision as anyone else.

>

> Period.

>

> My reason for mentioning a short list of my activities was in

direct

> response to your assertion that I bring nothing "positive" here or

> anywhere else. Tanvir knows me relatively well, and he knows of my

> stuff.

>

> What should be obvious is I like to get the facts straight, to get

> the thinking right. I like people to have as much accurate

> information possible, because I know, like a great many others,

that

> there are loads and loads of folks who hang out shingles and call

> themselves astrologers and are basically fleecing the hell outta

> people. I see it all the time, and again, hey people have the right

> to be suckers, but I also have the right to call those who fleece

on

> the carpet.

>

> Your suggestion of conducting a "poll" shows that you may be more

> ignorant than just about me or astrology, for anyone versed in

> statistics knows that doing such a thing proves nothing. That's why

I

> toom the pains to mention all of the sources I did. The issue here -

 

> and please keep in mind that I DID NOT MAKE THIS UP MYSELF is this -

 

> according to the accepted and agreed upon practice and theory of

> Vedic astrology, is Mark Kincaid in line with that or not??? It's a

> very simple question that anyone versed in Jyotish can easily

answer;

> perhaps Tanvir would be so kind to offer his own answer.

>

> I have found that when people have challenged 9th Houses, the

meaning

> for them is to seek out the Truth for themselves, not relying on

> teachers solely. In fact, the fact that a person with a bad 9th

> experiences so much pain in that area, is a clear proof that they

> need to hunker down much more than the person who has a pristine

9th.

> Now, make no mistake, such experiences aren't things most of us

would

> want. Nevertheless, like the malefics in general in Jyotish, such

> things are true character builders.

>

> So, when you have someone like me - who has 9th lord Sun in the

12th

> and conjunct 7 and 10 lord Mercury - I have a very hard time just

> accepting anything on its face, no matter who said it. ONLY after I

> have thoroughly gone through all the facts, only after I have

> conducted my own investigation of the truth, do I accept - or

reject -

> something. As we all know (maybe you don't), the 12th House

is "the

> heart of God" - so I like to get to the bottom of things, or truth.

>

> I'm all for respecting each other, doing the Barney/Purple Dinosaur

> thing, but I'm also for getting the facts straight.

>

> The Truth Needs no Defense.

>

> Salaam,

> Mu

>

> , "myst070" <myst070>

> wrote:

> > Yes, indeed my mail may be ignorant and I may be ignorant, but I

am

> > not rigid and I respect others.

> >

> > I need no proof of the lists you are in and the kind of work u

have

> > done. I just said that here on this list I havn't seen any

positive

> > contribution from you, other than criticising Mark (and that I

wont

> > call positive).

> >

> > Obviously u like to argue - see the language u have used - scene

of

> > crime, exhibit A etc. I have no such passions. Let us put this

> issue

> > to rest by having a poll of whether people have benefitted from

> > Mark's views. (Mr. Tanvir - A request to U) So that we can stop

> > pointing fingers at each other and learn from whatever little we

> all

> > know and can share.

> >

> > I have observed that the more we learn, the more humble we

become -

> > as we realise how little we know and how much more there is to

> learn.

> >

> > Yes, and u are right about my knowing about the Guru part. And

that

> > is the reason I respect others' Gurus. When u will have the grace

> of

> > a Guru and his protective hand on your head, u will realise that

> such

> > things cannot be understood by logic and mere intellect, nor can

> they

> > be put in words.

> >

> > I feel strongly that we need to respect each other and not just

> feed

> > our egos.

> >

> > I stand by my mail.

> >

> > MS

> >