Consciousness & Jyotish > Mark Kincaid 5/19

[Guest guest]

Consciousness & Jyotish

 

 

 

 

 

This morning I was thinking about the relationship and role of Consciousness

to the field of Jyotish.

 

Normally we don't think of this. But, especially, in consideration of the

eternally, on-going debate of freedom and pre-determinism or fate; I think

it's very relevant.

 

There's a saying in the Philosophy of Consciousness, that goes like this:

 

 

"Knowledge is different in Different States of Consciousness."

 

 

I think this is important because it helps us understand why one person, at

one stage, sees more fate and at another time, sees, more hope of freedom.

 

I also find that a person's chart is very indicative of their inclination to

lean either towards freedom or fate.

 

For example, in a lot of people's charts that have strong Saturn influences

I often see a predominance of belief in fate.

 

Whereas, for those who have strong Jupiter's, the inclination is to see more

freedom.

 

Today, I wanted to explore what life, and our realization's will tend to be,

in the different states of Consciousness, that we may experience.

 

Normally, we experience 3-states of Consciousness.

 

We're either Waking, Dreaming or Sleeping. According to modern Science,

there are these 3 major states of Consciousness. What make's these state's

unique are the precise aspects of

physiology, brain wave patterns, even respiration that go along with these

different states.

 

Normally, people experience these three, and their inclination to see this

or that, does, then, depend upon their Charts and the inclinations of their

Saturns and Jupiters, as we were previously discussing.

 

 

There is however, the possibility of more, higher states of Consciousness.

For everyone, regardless of their chart's, everyone has the possibility of

experiencing a 4th, 5th, 6th & 7th states of Consciousness.

 

We'll then find, that Knowledge, even perception, is different in these

different state's of consciousness.

 

Number One....there's a 4th state of Consciousness, called Transcendental or

Pure Consciousness.

 

This too, is uniquely different then the Waking, Dreaming or Deep Sleep

state's of Consciousness.

 

In the 4th state, one turns one's awareness inward and experiences quieter

and quieter state's of thought, until the finest aspect of a thought is

experienced.

 

Then, the mind, goes beyond that and experinces what has been called the

Source of Thought.

 

Deep inside, there is a place, from where all thoughts come. They percolate

up, every day, and we have hundreds and even, thousands of thoughts. But,

hardly ever do we notice where they come from.

 

When one meditates, one practice's the science, of turning one's awareness

inward, and experiencing deeper and deeper levels of the mind.

 

The deepest level is this source of thought which is a state of no-thought,

where the person is left by himself.

 

In that 'state', of no-thought, called traditionally, Satori, or Samadhi, or

pure Consciounsess, the consciousness is found by itself, without any object

of awareness.

 

This experience, which can last for 1 second, 5 seconds, entire 2 or 3

minutes, or longer, has now been called a 4th major state of consciousness,

or Transcendental Consciousness.

 

The interesting thing is what the experience is like. The experince itself,

which is not even known, really during the experience, because that would

then, entail a thought; is then, thought about, afterwords, when the mind

comes back out!

 

Afterwords, when you start to think again, you realized,..."hey, I went

somewhere!,.... and wow, it was a pretty great place!"

 

In that state, the mind becomes unbounded. It experiences, it's Self, as

pure, unbounded, even infinite.

 

There are no boundries, no limitations, even beyond time and space, the true

experience of the state of pure Reality, of Being.

 

When you've had that experience, nothing compares.

 

You feel great! You feel different. Though at the same time, the

experience itself, feels remarkably familiar, even safe.

 

As it turns out this is because we've only learned to experience, our very

selves!

 

So, no wonder that experience feels so familiar.

 

This may be why people feel so often, that freedom exists in life.

 

Certainly the World is too often dominated by strife and challenges, and

stress and unhappiness, all of which make us feel, small and isolated, and

bound!

 

No wonder, really, why so many people relate and feel that life is

pre-conditioned or involving fate, and pre-determinism. Because that's our

experience.

 

But, begin to have that inward experience, once, twice, every day, for a

month, and a year, and all of a sudden, your belief and understanding of

'fate vs freedom' will change.

 

When you can have that inward experience, of inner joy and expansion, and

increasing clarity, of yes, freedom, then of course, freedom, too must

exist.

 

But, it's often been thought that 'that' experience though fascinating and

even important, cannot be lived along with life's normal 3 states?

 

However, there is another state of Consciousness which is the 5th state

which is called Cosmic Consciousness.

 

As one continues meditating, and the benefits of that experience begin to

register, and as if, store up in the body and the mind, a time comes when

the state of pure Consciousness, begins to be lived, along with the normal 3

states of Waking, Dreaming & Sleeping.

 

This is an amazing experience, because all the joys and benefits of that

deep, expansive state, begin to be experienced, and, or lived, along with

the other 3.

 

You notice this sometimes, because even during normal activity, there's a

quality of that inner, resource, that inner bliss, starting to be

maintained, all the time.

 

You start to be calm, or settled, and certainly more steady, which are all,

due to that infusion of the 4th state, into all the other areas of life.

 

This new state is called Cosmic Consciousness, because Cosmic mean's

all-inclusive, and in this instance, includes the state of pure

consciousness, along with the 3 normal states.

 

Sometimes, you'll notice that you're completely uninvolved, and a silent

witness to your experience.

 

You're going along, and doing what you normally do, but inside, there's

something there, which is not involved, and completely beyond the normal

ebbs and flows of things.

 

This is one of the experiences one can have along the way of establishing

Cosmic Consciousness.

 

In this state, you'd definitely be able to say, not only have I found, real

freedom from inside, but now, I'm beginning to live 'that' along with all

the normal things of my life, out there.

 

In this state you'd definitely agree with the opinions that both freedom and

non-freedom exist.

 

It's now, your every day experience. You do see, all the conditionings of

the World, Physiology and people. But, now, you're living beyond that,

uninvolved, and still. But, that experience of freedom, exists somehow at

the same time.

 

In the earliest stages of this experience, you may experience this as being

2 separate worlds. There's the normal outer world, and then, there's this

new, inner world.

 

One seems to function under all the old rules but now, there's this

something, which is experienced as being extremely 'free', and yet, it can

be experienced, and now, lived, along with all the other states of change in

the relative.

 

Eventually, this experience begins to ripen, and the clear line's of

distinction between these two realities, boundries, and unboudedness, begin

to blurr, or...join.

 

Eventually, a quality of Unity begins to dominate, and a completely new and

fascinating reality dawns.

 

This give's rise to what is called the 6th & eventually 7th states of

Consciousnesses which are called God Consciousness or refined Cosmic

Consciousness & Unity Consciousness.

 

In these states, the realities, of the distance and the relationship between

the inner and the outer, begin to dissolve.

 

Let's first talk about Unity Consciousness.

 

In Cosmic Consciousness, actually, even in Pure Consciousness, the

meditative expeience, there's experienced, a Unity within.

 

In that experience, you, become unified. In that state, only Oneness, or

Unity dominates.

 

And that's a wonderful experience. Then, Cosmic Consciousness begins to

stabilize and that inner feeling of freedom and un-dividedness, begins to be

lived, all the time, 24 hours/day.

 

Then, the progress of Consicousness becomes one of refinement.

 

So, far Unity has been found, on the inside but, there's still a basic

separation between the inner and the outer.

 

In such a state, life is still experienced as 'two', or dual.

 

But, as progress continues, eventually, that inner experience of Unity,

begins to pop up, in the outer, in the environment, even on the level of the

body and perception.

 

In this amazing journey, one of the most interesting ways to look at this

development, is in terms of freedom and mastery of life including the

conditioned aspects.

 

In 'Ignorance', when one lives only the 3 common states of Consciousness,

one is devoid of knowing who and what one is. In that state, the experience

of freedom and boundries, is often very lacking so it's no wonder that often

we feel like we're bound and ruled by our 'fate' or 'destiny'.

 

Though generally, I've found that those who have quote: 'stronger'

Saturn's, do tend to believe more in that, causal or pre-determined aspects

of life.

 

Other people, who have especially more dominant Jupiter's tend to believe in

and see the World with and including freedom.

 

But, these two different inclination's are still on the level of the

Conscious mind.

 

When the Consciousness, within, begin's to be expanded, then, no matter,

what, one's initial orientation; both Saturn & Jupiter people begin to have

the direct experience of the true, 'state' of Pure Freedom.

 

Then, no matter what one's previous inclinations, as Cosmic Consciousness

dominates one can't help 'believing' in more freedom.

 

It's now, your real, primal experience, no matter what your Astrological

Chart's, inclinations.

 

There's that phrase in the Consciousness, Yoga aspect of Ved, which we

described before which goes like this:

 

 

"Knowledge is Different in Different State's of Consciousness."

 

The whole debate of freedom vs. pre-determinism, can now be seem as being

predominantly 'determined' by one's inner experience of consciousness and

it's natural 'freedom', attributes.

 

The key is to learn to have that inner experience of freedom, and

self-mastery and even, mastery of the World, will finally, convince anyone,

that boundries, are not the essential nature of life.

 

In such a growing 'existence', then, even fate or destiny, become's more a

beginning and not a slavery.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

Mark Kincaid

 

 

 

 

 

Astrologer

Teacher of Meditation & Ayurved

m.kincaid

641 472-0000.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark ...

So beautifully you described it...........

Yeah, Very right !! One believes in Fate or Free will as per his own

experiences ...as per his state of conciousness...

The very first thing experiencing the purer conciousness is to know

that whatever is happening to us has a remarkable contribution of our

own mind(or conciousness as mind is the tool of conciousness)

yeah, it is capable of creating worlds for you.

there are two confusing levels i experienced in this search....

1. I started to realize to know to seek that all the

circumtances,events,even the reaction of others,Something being

attracted to you,something coming your way are all wishful

acheivements of mind.But is very limited.A certain type of free will

is realized but soon the knowledge that this Free will is very much

limited comes.(Also astrologer can predict how much amount of free

will one can enjoy. ). This purer counciousness level shows to the

source where one sees root of different aspects of himself and get to

know that he can choose.Previously also he was choosing but just

driven by enticements,pleasures..... just reacting.for example -

Normally everyone sees himself involved in some mean acts(here it

means to be the meaner acts in comparison to his conciousness level)

and soon he realizes -"What he was doing".This is a commonly observed

scenario. Being attentive at this purer conciousness level one sees

himself different from all the habits,all the masks for society,all

his reactions.

He comes to know that He is here to express himself not just a

reaction.He comes to know that He is creator of his fate (this

knowledge is different form the ego - generally Martian people have

that they can do everything).

Here it does not mean that he looses the common sense that Not

everything comes under Free will.

2. Now comes the lesson of Predeterminism for him. He is shattered at

that face where he believed nothing can happen.And all his excercise

of Free will comes to a big question.This in destiny's way of

teaching one the great lessons.All his beliefs all his confidence

goes to silence.

When i faced this i started finding answers for the Big question of

predeterminism.

I started learning astrology which i believed

previously also but in a different fashion.I got to know that

everything is written there in the chart.

Hoooph!! ...Where is me????

But that exercise of Free will was also true....

Digging deeper one comes to know that although the powers in one are

written in chart

there is something beyond that which illuminates this free will and

after all one can always reach at the position of chooser.

But one has to accept the Law of Predeterminism - Whatever he chooses

to be he has to pay.

Now Above these two basic confusing patters of life He comes to the

wisdom of acceptance of both.This is the pure conciousness level.

 

****Now He sees the free will and predeterminism working paralally in

everything if practiced****

 

I experienced and as well seen people accepting fate as a better

judge of what happened to them.

I have seen people to say - if it would not have happened i could not

realized this or i could not achieved this.

a very common example - if i would not have failed last year i would

have been enjoying life with those low grade marks. now i attained

how to make good marks.

This face of destiny is accepted by those who starts achieving after

a kick hit by destiny.

This is a very simple example. One can learn that everything

happening to one is very well meaninful and uniquely meant for him

only.

When he realizes the meaning and purpose of Destiny He smiles and

accepts it lovingly..........

 

THE DESTINY AS I THINK IN THE LIGHT OF DIVINE LIFE IS A PATTERN OR

PATH THAT LEADS ONE FROM TRUTH TO HIGHER TRUTH , To HIGHER

EXPRESSIONS OF CONCIOUSNESS,STRENGTH TO MORE STRENGTH AND HIGHER

MANIFESTATIONS....

*****IN CONCEPT OF PREDETERMINISM THERE IS NO NEGATIVE PATH THAT

EXISTS*****

It means everyone is taught a higher lesson as per his need.

Also He smiles to Know that the concept of predeterminism doesn't

contradict the concept of Free will.

Both sails parallaly.

One observes that he is here to develop his Viveka and to live

rightously understanding both these concepts.

The free will which is limited by senses,by ego is already limited by

Predeterminism...It Is limited.

The Free will that comes from Source and comes with Viveka is Higher

one.

****AS IT ALSO COMES WITH VIVEKA THERE IS NO NEGATIVE PATH EXISTS IN

CONCEPT OF FREE WILL ALSO******

One has to dig deep.......

Somewhere i read that Atma being a part of God is Sakshi of all

things and it only decides the punishments / rewards.......

Its beautiful........

"Knowledge is different in Different States of Consciousness."

 

 

Very humbly..........

Amit Kumar

 

 

, Mark Kincaid

<m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

>

>

> Consciousness & Jyotish

>

>

>

>

>

> This morning I was thinking about the relationship and role of

Consciousness

> to the field of Jyotish.

>

> Normally we don't think of this. But, especially, in consideration

of the

> eternally, on-going debate of freedom and pre-determinism or fate;

I think

> it's very relevant.

>

> There's a saying in the Philosophy of Consciousness, that goes like

this:

>

>

> "Knowledge is different in Different States of Consciousness."

>

>

> I think this is important because it helps us understand why one

person, at

> one stage, sees more fate and at another time, sees, more hope of

freedom.

>

> I also find that a person's chart is very indicative of their

inclination to

> lean either towards freedom or fate.

>

> For example, in a lot of people's charts that have strong Saturn

influences

> I often see a predominance of belief in fate.

>

> Whereas, for those who have strong Jupiter's, the inclination is to

see more

> freedom.

>

> Today, I wanted to explore what life, and our realization's will

tend to be,

> in the different states of Consciousness, that we may experience.

>

> Normally, we experience 3-states of Consciousness.

>

> We're either Waking, Dreaming or Sleeping. According to modern

Science,

> there are these 3 major states of Consciousness. What make's

these state's

> unique are the precise aspects of

> physiology, brain wave patterns, even respiration that go along

with these

> different states.

>

> Normally, people experience these three, and their inclination to

see this

> or that, does, then, depend upon their Charts and the inclinations

of their

> Saturns and Jupiters, as we were previously discussing.

>

>

> There is however, the possibility of more, higher states of

Consciousness.

> For everyone, regardless of their chart's, everyone has the

possibility of

> experiencing a 4th, 5th, 6th & 7th states of Consciousness.

>

> We'll then find, that Knowledge, even perception, is different in

these

> different state's of consciousness.

>

> Number One....there's a 4th state of Consciousness, called

Transcendental or

> Pure Consciousness.

>

> This too, is uniquely different then the Waking, Dreaming or Deep

Sleep

> state's of Consciousness.

>

> In the 4th state, one turns one's awareness inward and experiences

quieter

> and quieter state's of thought, until the finest aspect of a

thought is

> experienced.

>

> Then, the mind, goes beyond that and experinces what has been

called the

> Source of Thought.

>

> Deep inside, there is a place, from where all thoughts come. They

percolate

> up, every day, and we have hundreds and even, thousands of

thoughts. But,

> hardly ever do we notice where they come from.

>

> When one meditates, one practice's the science, of turning one's

awareness

> inward, and experiencing deeper and deeper levels of the mind.

>

> The deepest level is this source of thought which is a state of no-

thought,

> where the person is left by himself.

>

> In that 'state', of no-thought, called traditionally, Satori, or

Samadhi, or

> pure Consciounsess, the consciousness is found by itself, without

any object

> of awareness.

>

> This experience, which can last for 1 second, 5 seconds, entire 2

or 3

> minutes, or longer, has now been called a 4th major state of

consciousness,

> or Transcendental Consciousness.

>

> The interesting thing is what the experience is like. The

experince itself,

> which is not even known, really during the experience, because that

would

> then, entail a thought; is then, thought about, afterwords, when

the mind

> comes back out!

>

> Afterwords, when you start to think again, you realized,..."hey, I

went

> somewhere!,.... and wow, it was a pretty great place!"

>

> In that state, the mind becomes unbounded. It experiences, it's

Self, as

> pure, unbounded, even infinite.

>

> There are no boundries, no limitations, even beyond time and space,

the true

> experience of the state of pure Reality, of Being.

>

> When you've had that experience, nothing compares.

>

> You feel great! You feel different. Though at the same time, the

> experience itself, feels remarkably familiar, even safe.

>

> As it turns out this is because we've only learned to experience,

our very

> selves!

>

> So, no wonder that experience feels so familiar.

>

> This may be why people feel so often, that freedom exists in life.

>

> Certainly the World is too often dominated by strife and

challenges, and

> stress and unhappiness, all of which make us feel, small and

isolated, and

> bound!

>

> No wonder, really, why so many people relate and feel that life is

> pre-conditioned or involving fate, and pre-determinism. Because

that's our

> experience.

>

> But, begin to have that inward experience, once, twice, every day,

for a

> month, and a year, and all of a sudden, your belief and

understanding of

> 'fate vs freedom' will change.

>

> When you can have that inward experience, of inner joy and

expansion, and

> increasing clarity, of yes, freedom, then of course, freedom, too

must

> exist.

>

> But, it's often been thought that 'that' experience though

fascinating and

> even important, cannot be lived along with life's normal 3 states?

>

> However, there is another state of Consciousness which is the 5th

state

> which is called Cosmic Consciousness.

>

> As one continues meditating, and the benefits of that experience

begin to

> register, and as if, store up in the body and the mind, a time

comes when

> the state of pure Consciousness, begins to be lived, along with the

normal 3

> states of Waking, Dreaming & Sleeping.

>

> This is an amazing experience, because all the joys and benefits of

that

> deep, expansive state, begin to be experienced, and, or lived,

along with

> the other 3.

>

> You notice this sometimes, because even during normal activity,

there's a

> quality of that inner, resource, that inner bliss, starting to be

> maintained, all the time.

>

> You start to be calm, or settled, and certainly more steady, which

are all,

> due to that infusion of the 4th state, into all the other areas of

life.

>

> This new state is called Cosmic Consciousness, because Cosmic mean's

> all-inclusive, and in this instance, includes the state of pure

> consciousness, along with the 3 normal states.

>

> Sometimes, you'll notice that you're completely uninvolved, and a

silent

> witness to your experience.

>

> You're going along, and doing what you normally do, but inside,

there's

> something there, which is not involved, and completely beyond the

normal

> ebbs and flows of things.

>

> This is one of the experiences one can have along the way of

establishing

> Cosmic Consciousness.

>

> In this state, you'd definitely be able to say, not only have I

found, real

> freedom from inside, but now, I'm beginning to live 'that' along

with all

> the normal things of my life, out there.

>

> In this state you'd definitely agree with the opinions that both

freedom and

> non-freedom exist.

>

> It's now, your every day experience. You do see, all the

conditionings of

> the World, Physiology and people. But, now, you're living beyond

that,

> uninvolved, and still. But, that experience of freedom, exists

somehow at

> the same time.

>

> In the earliest stages of this experience, you may experience this

as being

> 2 separate worlds. There's the normal outer world, and then,

there's this

> new, inner world.

>

> One seems to function under all the old rules but now, there's this

> something, which is experienced as being extremely 'free', and yet,

it can

> be experienced, and now, lived, along with all the other states of

change in

> the relative.

>

> Eventually, this experience begins to ripen, and the clear line's of

> distinction between these two realities, boundries, and

unboudedness, begin

> to blurr, or...join.

>

> Eventually, a quality of Unity begins to dominate, and a completely

new and

> fascinating reality dawns.

>

> This give's rise to what is called the 6th & eventually 7th states

of

> Consciousnesses which are called God Consciousness or refined Cosmic

> Consciousness & Unity Consciousness.

>

> In these states, the realities, of the distance and the

relationship between

> the inner and the outer, begin to dissolve.

>

> Let's first talk about Unity Consciousness.

>

> In Cosmic Consciousness, actually, even in Pure Consciousness, the

> meditative expeience, there's experienced, a Unity within.

>

> In that experience, you, become unified. In that state, only

Oneness, or

> Unity dominates.

>

> And that's a wonderful experience. Then, Cosmic Consciousness

begins to

> stabilize and that inner feeling of freedom and un-dividedness,

begins to be

> lived, all the time, 24 hours/day.

>

> Then, the progress of Consicousness becomes one of refinement.

>

> So, far Unity has been found, on the inside but, there's still a

basic

> separation between the inner and the outer.

>

> In such a state, life is still experienced as 'two', or dual.

>

> But, as progress continues, eventually, that inner experience of

Unity,

> begins to pop up, in the outer, in the environment, even on the

level of the

> body and perception.

>

> In this amazing journey, one of the most interesting ways to look

at this

> development, is in terms of freedom and mastery of life including

the

> conditioned aspects.

>

> In 'Ignorance', when one lives only the 3 common states of

Consciousness,

> one is devoid of knowing who and what one is. In that state, the

experience

> of freedom and boundries, is often very lacking so it's no wonder

that often

> we feel like we're bound and ruled by our 'fate' or 'destiny'.

>

> Though generally, I've found that those who have quote: 'stronger'

> Saturn's, do tend to believe more in that, causal or pre-determined

aspects

> of life.

>

> Other people, who have especially more dominant Jupiter's tend to

believe in

> and see the World with and including freedom.

>

> But, these two different inclination's are still on the level of the

> Conscious mind.

>

> When the Consciousness, within, begin's to be expanded, then, no

matter,

> what, one's initial orientation; both Saturn & Jupiter people begin

to have

> the direct experience of the true, 'state' of Pure Freedom.

>

> Then, no matter what one's previous inclinations, as Cosmic

Consciousness

> dominates one can't help 'believing' in more freedom.

>

> It's now, your real, primal experience, no matter what your

Astrological

> Chart's, inclinations.

>

> There's that phrase in the Consciousness, Yoga aspect of Ved, which

we

> described before which goes like this:

>

>

> "Knowledge is Different in Different State's of Consciousness."

>

> The whole debate of freedom vs. pre-determinism, can now be seem as

being

> predominantly 'determined' by one's inner experience of

consciousness and

> it's natural 'freedom', attributes.

>

> The key is to learn to have that inner experience of freedom, and

> self-mastery and even, mastery of the World, will finally, convince

anyone,

> that boundries, are not the essential nature of life.

>

> In such a growing 'existence', then, even fate or destiny, become's

more a

> beginning and not a slavery.

>

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

>

> Mark Kincaid

>

>

>

>

>

> Astrologer

> Teacher of Meditation & Ayurved

> m.kincaid@m...

> 641 472-0000.

>

>

>