Guest guest Posted May 19, 2005 Report Share Posted May 19, 2005 Dear friends, 'what is unknown to all' is always interesting..including the current topic of discussion - reincarnation! Some believe and some do not and the argument continues. All philosophies speculate on their own hypotheses and fail to PROVE whether there exists a process called Re-incarnation. But when it comes to astrology and re-incarnation, there is something interesting to know:(based on ancient works) 1. The SOUL or Atma has no memory; the only state it has is KARMA and so a 're-born' can not 'remember' his/her past life! So, I do not believe that a re-born can guide one to his house of past life. 2. The SOUL has to travel a looooooooooong path to reach any heavenly abode or LOKA; which is clear from ancient vedic works mentioning that an ATMA takes 13 days to slip off all its links with the earth and it takes thousands of Earthy years to reach the SWARGA(Heaven) or NARAKA(Hell). So, even if it is ONE DAY for an Atma, the Earth would have experienced many centuries! Thus, a RE-BORN finding his contemporaries on the Earth is completely ABSURD! Except for some TANTRIK process like ParakaayaPravesha (trans-migration of soul which I believe as the most difficult tantra), there is no possiblity of a soul 'remembering' things and finding old mates with its new body. (Interested members can read about it in the SAGA of PURI-JAGANNATHA, Garuda Purana and so on) I do not know whether these findings are rational or scientific but enough for me NOT TO believe anybody 'remembering' his/her last birth details. BUT, there are some situations, which make one TRIKALA-JNANI or the knower of past-present-future, for a RIGHT PURPOSEand I believe those are the qualities of the present life of the native and have nothing to do with his memory of the past life. Well, such arguments always continue....but this is just my share of this life! yours humbly KAD , arjun pandit <panditarjun2004> wrote: > Dear friend > > You have rightly put in the initial experiences of a BLESSED astrologer. Only those astrologers who are blessed by the god feel such experiences and would continue to do so only as long as they do sadhna. > > However, kindly note that once you start predictions on a regular basis and simultaneously do your sadhna and meditation, time immemorial, the predictions would be based more on intuition (clairvoyance?) and less on analysing the horoscope or seeing the person. In some cases, without seeing the peson or without knowing the name also I have predicted few things and they have come right. When a known person asked me to entertain Mr.x, I asked him to meet me the next day. But without knowing his name, d.o.b. or what is his problem, I prepared a chart of him and also wrote down the problem he is suffering. But these things happen rarely with divine grace only and no human being (including me) can attribute this power or skill to oneself. > > One person was suffering losses in all his businesses even though his horoscope is one of the best and his mahadasa and antardasa are best benefic planets. He lamented that he spent thousands of rupees visiting several astrologers and tantriks. Even I scratched my head initially but later, by god's grace, could predict that it is due to the Astam Mangal's malefic affect in his brother's chart. Later on remedies were done by both and they are now living happily. > > Also in two cases, I have predicted that they are possessed by evil and that they have a sign of 666 in thier palm without seeing their hand. It proved true and in a photocopy of the palm also the 666 sign was visible and that paper was retained by me. But after he was exorcised and the evil was driven off, the sign not only vanished from his hand but also from the photocopy. This sign and belief is as per christianity (written in Bible) and the exorcism is treated as per occult sciences. Unfortunately in India little learned people call exorcism a bad science by calling them tantriks who do bad things. Little do they realise that Lord Saibaba was also a tantrik and he used his tantrik skills to help the suffering. > > The need arose to highlight my own experiences only to praise the divine power and divine grace and the great science of astrology. > > One word of caution to all my dear friends, studying a horoscope, knowing the problem and even predicting is easy but suggesting remedies to get what is not written and suggest remedies to get away from what one is suffering, IS POSSIBLE ONLY BY DIVINE POWER AND HENCE KEEP ON DOING YOUR SADHNA AND INCREASE THE DIVINE GRACE ON YOU. > > With best wishes > > Arjun > > Anil VSNL <gogatea@v...> wrote: > Dear Mr. Rohiniranjan, > > Many thanks for all the nice things you have said about me. > > Last few years I have been studying and getting involved in those aspects of astrology which can be called as dealing with "supernatural powers , intuitions and rebirths" > > Just for example I realized that many of the astrologers are claimed to have "intuitive" powers. Even in my own case I have been able to predict amazingly accurately ( sometimes - not always ! ) about a client visiting me even before I have prepared his or her horoscope in details. I did a careful analysis of this. I realized that what one may call as intuition is actually processing logical steps at a very fast speed due to you fast mapping abilities and experience so that one would almost feel it as intuition. e.g. I have seen so many cases of 1979 born between June 1979 till December 1979 who are not married yet , very emotional and sensitive , home loving etc etc that a new case comes of this band of 1979 , I can kind of create mental model of the issues client is facing much earlier. ( I have identified many such bands like 1974 unmarried , 1985 nov , dec - Psychological problems etc ) Also the gaze , gesture - the body language of the client also keeps on telling you about > the person's mind set , attitudinal pattern , likely problems etc. So although my client started claiming that I have intuitive powers , eventually I realized that I absolutely do not have intuitive powers but it is only fast processing of logic as I said earlier. > > I also visited lots of Nadi centers in India and experimented with various Nadi samhitas. The common fundamental assumption in all the Nadis Samhitas is that you are having problems in the current birth due to your past birth sins. I sincerely felt that this assumption cannot be just written off as baseless or unscientific. There are many cases of positive feedbacks of people who have been benefited by doing shanti and diksha parihar to take care of past birth sins. > > In the history of man kind many theories which were described as "who do" , "black Magic" , Witch craft" etc initially were proved to be true and rational on scientific basis later on. > > I think due to all these experiences I have started believing that one day we may be able get "scientific proof" for theory of rebirth. > > At the same time I must say that I do not have time and institutional support to really verify authenticity of all these rebirth cases by going into details of such cases and ensuring that they are real and not "hoax". But I talked to couple of cases who claimed that they remember their past lives and I verified that they are not psychologically ill and there must be some element of substance and truth in what they are saying. > > Lastly even in case of astrology , I have met people who can tell your predictions accurately just by seeing your photo or having look at you or even by asking a number of your choice or by face reading . I was stunned to see such people telling very accurately and felt guilty that these people are eventually reaching same destination as what we reach with our scientific study of astrology of many years. What I am thinking is that these people use photos or number of your choice only as means for predictions or just to get "connected" and in reality there are some other powers or energies involved in their predicting accurately. > > So Mr. Rohiniranjan what I am trying to say is that certain beliefs cannot be justified on the basis of rationality or scientific thinking, but if you form a firm conviction that those beliefs are true for whatever reason , what is the harm in continuing with these beliefs ? > > Warm regards, > > > Anil Gogate > > > - > Rohini (Crystal Pages) > > Thursday, May 19, 2005 10:11 AM > Anil VSNL jee ... -- a naive question @ you, if I may? > > > Aniljee ...! > > YOU [at least on this forum] have always sounded like one who is a > rational being, promoting the pragmatic and the logical aspect of > jyotish as most of us think we understand and k-n-o-w it; one who had > been living in the real material reality, the reality that really > counts on a day-to-day basis as hopefully most members would connect > to on a daily basis! > > Why/How would you explain or convince or even prove that rebirth of > an individual really takes place? > > Mind you, I am not talking about the recycling of carbon or C02 atoms > as Dr. Deepak Chopra talks about or the recycling of intestinal > mucosa or the stratum corneum as the ancient western scientists have > insisted it be called and decreed! > > Teach us Sir, about the astrological proof that there is rebirth and > that what most assume and flaunt to be true, indeed happens! HUMAN > REBIRTH for starters!! > > RR > > > , Anil VSNL <gogatea@v...> > wrote: > > Dear Mark, > > > > I have also heard of quite a few such stories and all of them would > not be manupulations or Hoax. I am a firm believer of rebirth and > Nadi astrologers can tell you lots of details of your past births. > Listening or reading to those details is quite fascinating. > > > > However what must be happening is that only in very cases few cases > one "remembers" of the past birth at such articulate level like in > the case of story which you told. It is impossible with the current > knowledge of science to give rationale , analysis and explanation for > such events. > > > > Apart from Nadi astrology I have read sometime back an article > related to how to predict what must have been one's past birth life. > I will try to relocate it from my achieves and post it. > > > > Thanks and with regards, > > > > Anil > > > > > > - > > Mark Kincaid > > Vedic Astrology ; Jyotish Remedies... ; b) Astrology Group: ; > StudyYourStars > > Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:35 PM > > 2-all, re. great story about the reincarnation > aspect of life... > > > > > > > Jay Bhagwan, > > > > > > I was not ready to believe that there are re-births > > > and such other courrces till I came across an > > > incident where a family from a small village in > > > Uttar Pradesh, ....(rest below).... > > > > > > Dear Vitthal: > > > > This is a beautiful story of the realities of reincarnation. > > > > Life without this understanding present's to us, a picture of > anarchy and no > > rhyme or reason why things are the way that they are. > > > > One of the very reason's that I love Jyotish, too, so much is > that it's > > another example, of a very compelling reason why Karma exists. > > > > After studying Jyotish for a number of year's it occured to me, > that the > > exact qualities, and characteristics of our Astrology chart's are > another > > great explanation of the law of causality. > > > > Our Chart's indicate the karmas and thought pattern's that we > were born, > > with, and as a result the predictable result's that will occur. > > > > This detail of specificity is very satisfying to the intellect > because it's > > bring's great understanding as to the why's of our live's. > > > > Another reason why I like your story, is it's also a great > description of > > the deeper, intuitive, and Consciousness aspect of life, that's > possible. > > > > This young soul, 'knew' the truth of his existence. > > His just knew the truth, and this story indicates the great role > of > > Consciousness, in both understanding the deep, symbolic meaning's > of our > > live's and the role of our wills, and consciousnesses for helping > us live > > the meaning's of our lives! > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > Mark Kincaid > > > > > > Jai Guru! > > > > > > > > Astrologer > > Teacher of Meditation & Ayurved > > m.kincaid@m... > > 641 472-0000. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vitthal Dempo <vidempo1> wrote: > > > > > Jay Bhagwan, > > > > > > I was not ready to believe that there are re-births > > > and such other courrces till I came across an > > > incident where a family from a small village in > > > Uttar Pradesh, north of India came down to Thane > > > district in Maharashtra in western India. > > > > > > One fine day as I was sitting with a police > > > inspector at Wada Police station in Thane district, > > > an elderly man around 50,s with his wife around 45 > > > and his son around 8 years approached the officer > > > and the visitor naratted his story. > > > > > > He said, his son says that he has his wife and his > > > son staying at a village here at Javhar. We don't > > > have any idea and are rather suspicious about it > > > but the boy insists on going there and hence I have > > > come to you to take me there to find out as to what > > > is the truth? > > > > > > The officer Police Inspector Pitambar Pagare was > > > also surprised when the boy started telling about > > > the place where his wife and son are staying. He > > > could tell some minute details of the place. The > > > officer called Sub-Inspector Chapte at Javhar > > > Police Station and confirmed about the place. > > > > > > We later took the Police jeep and all of us went to > > > Javhar. After reaching the place, the boy started > > > directing the driver about his place and the driver > > > did the same as per the boy's directions. > > > > > > We finally came in front of a small hut and all > > > nearby people gathered near the police vehicle with > > > suspicion. The boy got down and started walking > > > towards the hut and called his Ex- wife by her > > > name. She was doing some thing inside and hearing > > > her name, she came out of the hut. She was around > > > 70,s and her son was around 45. The boy claimed > > > that she was his wife and also gave several > > > instances to prove it. The lady was puzzled, she > > > could not identify him as her husband but the boy > > > perfectly identified both of them. This was a > > > miracle like story for me. I was present there with > > > the family and later the lady said, her husband had > > > expired around 20 years ago and that whatever the > > > boy says is correct. The boy asked the old lady to > > > come with her to UP his new home and asked his > > > parents to bless their daughter-in-law and grand > > > son who were both major. > > > > > > We later came to the rest house and the father of > > > the boy narrated his story. It was since last 3 > > > years that his son was telling them to come down to > > > Thane in maharashtra and wanted to meet his wife and > > > son. He used to tell their names and their likings > > > and hobbies and finally his father decided to check > > > the facts behind all this and came down to the > > > police for help. > > > > > > The old lady accepeted whatever the boy said was > > > correct and even the son remembered some instances > > > his boy father told him and had happened in the > > > past. > > > > > > From this incidence I have started believing that > > > there are re- births. The time and period or each > > > birth depends and if you are more interested, I may > > > also direct you to a place where you can have > > > conversation with some ghosts or mrutatmas. > > > > > > I have witnessed that too! > > > > > > For more info you may write to me at my e-mail ID. > > > > > > Regards. > > > > > > Vitthal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- ---- > ---------- > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > b.. > > > > > > c.. Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > -- ---------- > Links > > > / > > b.. > > > c.. Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2005 Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 The subject of reincarnation has received some "scientific" scrutiny. One of the leading researchers in rebirth is at IISc, her name is Satwant Pasricha. Here is a brief summary of her book: http://www.mumbai-central.com/nukkad/jul2001/msg00071.html Here's a paper that examines reports of rebirth from different parts of India. It documents lots of interesting stuff. http://www.scientificexploration.org/jse/articles/pdf/15.2_pasricha. pdf This person is the leading expert on rebirth research: http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation01.html One disturbing piece of info from the research is that you tend to be inclined towards your habits from past life. So if you were an alcoholic in one life, you will be positively inclined to alcohol in the next. This is disturbing because it undermines the moral argument associated with rebirth: that if you do bad this life, you will suffer in the next one. But it looks like if you do bad in this life, you will probably start early in the next! In a related strain, there are reports of people who receive organ transplants, particularly heart transplants, remembering events and people from the donor's life, especially ones from his/her moment of death. I consider the issue of memory from past lives an open question, for a very simple reason: we don't really understand what memory is, and how it relates to consciousness. And after a hundred years of poking around in the human brain, we still don't know where our long-term memories are stored, and how. Ram , "kadrudra" <kadrudra> wrote: > Dear friends, > > 'what is unknown to all' is always interesting..including the current > topic of discussion - reincarnation! > Some believe and some do not and the argument continues. All > philosophies speculate on their own hypotheses and fail to PROVE > whether there exists a process called Re-incarnation. But when it > comes to astrology and re-incarnation, there is something > interesting to know:(based on ancient works) > > 1. The SOUL or Atma has no memory; the only state it has is KARMA and > so a 're-born' can not 'remember' his/her past life! > So, I do not believe that a re-born can guide one to his house of > past life. > > 2. The SOUL has to travel a looooooooooong path to reach any heavenly > abode or LOKA; which is clear from ancient vedic works > mentioning that an ATMA takes 13 days to slip off all its links > with the earth and it takes thousands of Earthy years to > reach the SWARGA(Heaven) or NARAKA(Hell). So, even if it is ONE > DAY for an Atma, the Earth would have experienced many centuries! > Thus, a RE-BORN finding his contemporaries on the Earth is > completely ABSURD! Except for some TANTRIK process like > ParakaayaPravesha > (trans-migration of soul which I believe as the most difficult > tantra), there is no possiblity of a soul 'remembering' things and > finding old mates with its new body. (Interested members can read > about it in the SAGA of PURI-JAGANNATHA, Garuda Purana and so on) > > I do not know whether these findings are rational or scientific but > enough for me NOT TO believe anybody 'remembering' his/her > last birth details. BUT, there are some situations, which make one > TRIKALA-JNANI or the knower of past-present-future, for > a RIGHT PURPOSEand I believe those are the qualities of the present > life of the native and have nothing to do with his memory > of the past life. > > Well, such arguments always continue....but this is just my share of > this life! > > yours humbly > KAD > > > > , arjun pandit > <panditarjun2004> wrote: > > Dear friend > > > > You have rightly put in the initial experiences of a BLESSED > astrologer. Only those astrologers who are blessed by the god feel > such experiences and would continue to do so only as long as they do > sadhna. > > > > However, kindly note that once you start predictions on a regular > basis and simultaneously do your sadhna and meditation, time > immemorial, the predictions would be based more on intuition > (clairvoyance?) and less on analysing the horoscope or seeing the > person. In some cases, without seeing the peson or without knowing > the name also I have predicted few things and they have come right. > When a known person asked me to entertain Mr.x, I asked him to meet > me the next day. But without knowing his name, d.o.b. or what is his > problem, I prepared a chart of him and also wrote down the problem he > is suffering. But these things happen rarely with divine grace only > and no human being (including me) can attribute this power or skill > to oneself. > > > > One person was suffering losses in all his businesses even though > his horoscope is one of the best and his mahadasa and antardasa are > best benefic planets. He lamented that he spent thousands of rupees > visiting several astrologers and tantriks. Even I scratched my head > initially but later, by god's grace, could predict that it is due to > the Astam Mangal's malefic affect in his brother's chart. Later on > remedies were done by both and they are now living happily. > > > > Also in two cases, I have predicted that they are possessed by evil > and that they have a sign of 666 in thier palm without seeing their > hand. It proved true and in a photocopy of the palm also the 666 > sign was visible and that paper was retained by me. But after he was > exorcised and the evil was driven off, the sign not only vanished > from his hand but also from the photocopy. This sign and belief is > as per christianity (written in Bible) and the exorcism is treated as > per occult sciences. Unfortunately in India little learned people > call exorcism a bad science by calling them tantriks who do bad > things. Little do they realise that Lord Saibaba was also a tantrik > and he used his tantrik skills to help the suffering. > > > > The need arose to highlight my own experiences only to praise the > divine power and divine grace and the great science of astrology. > > > > One word of caution to all my dear friends, studying a horoscope, > knowing the problem and even predicting is easy but suggesting > remedies to get what is not written and suggest remedies to get away > from what one is suffering, IS POSSIBLE ONLY BY DIVINE POWER AND > HENCE KEEP ON DOING YOUR SADHNA AND INCREASE THE DIVINE GRACE ON YOU. > > > > With best wishes > > > > Arjun > > > > Anil VSNL <gogatea@v...> wrote: > > Dear Mr. Rohiniranjan, > > > > Many thanks for all the nice things you have said about me. > > > > Last few years I have been studying and getting involved in those > aspects of astrology which can be called as dealing > with "supernatural powers , intuitions and rebirths" > > > > Just for example I realized that many of the astrologers are > claimed to have "intuitive" powers. Even in my own case I have been > able to predict amazingly accurately ( sometimes - not always ! ) > about a client visiting me even before I have prepared his or her > horoscope in details. I did a careful analysis of this. I realized > that what one may call as intuition is actually processing logical > steps at a very fast speed due to you fast mapping abilities and > experience so that one would almost feel it as intuition. e.g. I have > seen so many cases of 1979 born between June 1979 till December 1979 > who are not married yet , very emotional and sensitive , home loving > etc etc that a new case comes of this band of 1979 , I can kind of > create mental model of the issues client is facing much earlier. ( I > have identified many such bands like 1974 unmarried , 1985 nov , dec - > Psychological problems etc ) Also the gaze , gesture - the body > language of the client also keeps on telling you about > > the person's mind set , attitudinal pattern , likely problems > etc. So although my client started claiming that I have intuitive > powers , eventually I realized that I absolutely do not have > intuitive powers but it is only fast processing of logic as I said > earlier. > > > > I also visited lots of Nadi centers in India and experimented with > various Nadi samhitas. The common fundamental assumption in all the > Nadis Samhitas is that you are having problems in the current birth > due to your past birth sins. I sincerely felt that this assumption > cannot be just written off as baseless or unscientific. There are > many cases of positive feedbacks of people who have been benefited > by doing shanti and diksha parihar to take care of past birth sins. > > > > In the history of man kind many theories which were described > as "who do" , "black Magic" , Witch craft" etc initially were proved > to be true and rational on scientific basis later on. > > > > I think due to all these experiences I have started believing that > one day we may be able get "scientific proof" for theory of rebirth. > > > > At the same time I must say that I do not have time and > institutional support to really verify authenticity of all these > rebirth cases by going into details of such cases and ensuring that > they are real and not "hoax". But I talked to couple of cases who > claimed that they remember their past lives and I verified that they > are not psychologically ill and there must be some element of > substance and truth in what they are saying. > > > > Lastly even in case of astrology , I have met people who can tell > your predictions accurately just by seeing your photo or having look > at you or even by asking a number of your choice or by face reading . > I was stunned to see such people telling very accurately and felt > guilty that these people are eventually reaching same destination as > what we reach with our scientific study of astrology of many years. > What I am thinking is that these people use photos or number of your > choice only as means for predictions or just to get "connected" and > in reality there are some other powers or energies involved in their > predicting accurately. > > > > So Mr. Rohiniranjan what I am trying to say is that certain beliefs > cannot be justified on the basis of rationality or scientific > thinking, but if you form a firm conviction that those beliefs are > true for whatever reason , what is the harm in continuing with these > beliefs ? > > > > Warm regards, > > > > > > Anil Gogate > > > > > > - > > Rohini (Crystal Pages) > > > > Thursday, May 19, 2005 10:11 AM > > Anil VSNL jee ... -- a naive question @ you, if I > may? > > > > > > Aniljee ...! > > > > YOU [at least on this forum] have always sounded like one who is > a > > rational being, promoting the pragmatic and the logical aspect of > > jyotish as most of us think we understand and k-n-o-w it; one who > had > > been living in the real material reality, the reality that really > > counts on a day-to-day basis as hopefully most members would > connect > > to on a daily basis! > > > > Why/How would you explain or convince or even prove that rebirth > of > > an individual really takes place? > > > > Mind you, I am not talking about the recycling of carbon or C02 > atoms > > as Dr. Deepak Chopra talks about or the recycling of intestinal > > mucosa or the stratum corneum as the ancient western scientists > have > > insisted it be called and decreed! > > > > Teach us Sir, about the astrological proof that there is rebirth > and > > that what most assume and flaunt to be true, indeed happens! > HUMAN > > REBIRTH for starters!! > > > > RR > > > > > > , Anil VSNL <gogatea@v... > > > wrote: > > > Dear Mark, > > > > > > I have also heard of quite a few such stories and all of them > would > > not be manupulations or Hoax. I am a firm believer of rebirth and > > Nadi astrologers can tell you lots of details of your past > births. > > Listening or reading to those details is quite fascinating. > > > > > > However what must be happening is that only in very cases few > cases > > one "remembers" of the past birth at such articulate level like > in > > the case of story which you told. It is impossible with the > current > > knowledge of science to give rationale , analysis and explanation > for > > such events. > > > > > > Apart from Nadi astrology I have read sometime back an article > > related to how to predict what must have been one's past birth > life. > > I will try to relocate it from my achieves and post it. > > > > > > Thanks and with regards, > > > > > > Anil > > > > > > > > > - > > > Mark Kincaid > > > Vedic Astrology ; Jyotish Remedies... ; b) Astrology > Group: ; > > StudyYourStars > > > Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:35 PM > > > 2-all, re. great story about the reincarnation > > aspect of life... > > > > > > > > > > Jay Bhagwan, > > > > > > > > I was not ready to believe that there are re-births > > > > and such other courrces till I came across an > > > > incident where a family from a small village in > > > > Uttar Pradesh, ....(rest below).... > > > > > > > > > Dear Vitthal: > > > > > > This is a beautiful story of the realities of reincarnation. > > > > > > Life without this understanding present's to us, a picture of > > anarchy and no > > > rhyme or reason why things are the way that they are. > > > > > > One of the very reason's that I love Jyotish, too, so much is > > that it's > > > another example, of a very compelling reason why Karma > exists. > > > > > > After studying Jyotish for a number of year's it occured to > me, > > that the > > > exact qualities, and characteristics of our Astrology chart's > are > > another > > > great explanation of the law of causality. > > > > > > Our Chart's indicate the karmas and thought pattern's that we > > were born, > > > with, and as a result the predictable result's that will > occur. > > > > > > This detail of specificity is very satisfying to the > intellect > > because it's > > > bring's great understanding as to the why's of our live's. > > > > > > Another reason why I like your story, is it's also a great > > description of > > > the deeper, intuitive, and Consciousness aspect of life, > that's > > possible. > > > > > > This young soul, 'knew' the truth of his existence. > > > His just knew the truth, and this story indicates the great > role > > of > > > Consciousness, in both understanding the deep, symbolic > meaning's > > of our > > > live's and the role of our wills, and consciousnesses for > helping > > us live > > > the meaning's of our lives! > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > > > > Mark Kincaid > > > > > > > > > Jai Guru! > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrologer > > > Teacher of Meditation & Ayurved > > > m.kincaid@m... > > > 641 472-0000. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vitthal Dempo <vidempo1> wrote: > > > > > > > Jay Bhagwan, > > > > > > > > I was not ready to believe that there are re-births > > > > and such other courrces till I came across an > > > > incident where a family from a small village in > > > > Uttar Pradesh, north of India came down to Thane > > > > district in Maharashtra in western India. > > > > > > > > One fine day as I was sitting with a police > > > > inspector at Wada Police station in Thane district, > > > > an elderly man around 50,s with his wife around 45 > > > > and his son around 8 years approached the officer > > > > and the visitor naratted his story. > > > > > > > > He said, his son says that he has his wife and his > > > > son staying at a village here at Javhar. We don't > > > > have any idea and are rather suspicious about it > > > > but the boy insists on going there and hence I have > > > > come to you to take me there to find out as to what > > > > is the truth? > > > > > > > > The officer Police Inspector Pitambar Pagare was > > > > also surprised when the boy started telling about > > > > the place where his wife and son are staying. He > > > > could tell some minute details of the place. The > > > > officer called Sub-Inspector Chapte at Javhar > > > > Police Station and confirmed about the place. > > > > > > > > We later took the Police jeep and all of us went to > > > > Javhar. After reaching the place, the boy started > > > > directing the driver about his place and the driver > > > > did the same as per the boy's directions. > > > > > > > > We finally came in front of a small hut and all > > > > nearby people gathered near the police vehicle with > > > > suspicion. The boy got down and started walking > > > > towards the hut and called his Ex- wife by her > > > > name. She was doing some thing inside and hearing > > > > her name, she came out of the hut. She was around > > > > 70,s and her son was around 45. The boy claimed > > > > that she was his wife and also gave several > > > > instances to prove it. The lady was puzzled, she > > > > could not identify him as her husband but the boy > > > > perfectly identified both of them. This was a > > > > miracle like story for me. I was present there with > > > > the family and later the lady said, her husband had > > > > expired around 20 years ago and that whatever the > > > > boy says is correct. The boy asked the old lady to > > > > come with her to UP his new home and asked his > > > > parents to bless their daughter-in-law and grand > > > > son who were both major. > > > > > > > > We later came to the rest house and the father of > > > > the boy narrated his story. It was since last 3 > > > > years that his son was telling them to come down to > > > > Thane in maharashtra and wanted to meet his wife and > > > > son. He used to tell their names and their likings > > > > and hobbies and finally his father decided to check > > > > the facts behind all this and came down to the > > > > police for help. > > > > > > > > The old lady accepeted whatever the boy said was > > > > correct and even the son remembered some instances > > > > his boy father told him and had happened in the > > > > past. > > > > > > > > From this incidence I have started believing that > > > > there are re- births. The time and period or each > > > > birth depends and if you are more interested, I may > > > > also direct you to a place where you can have > > > > conversation with some ghosts or mrutatmas. > > > > > > > > I have witnessed that too! > > > > > > > > For more info you may write to me at my e-mail ID. > > > > > > > > Regards. > > > > > > > > Vitthal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------- -- > ---- > > ---------- > > > Links > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > b.. > > > > > > > > > c.. > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > -- > ---------- > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > b.. > > > > > > c.. Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2005 Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 Dear friends, When the Science is unable to 'understand' concept of memory and conscience, scientists 'proving' tendencies of persons in re-birth is far from reality! Let alone re-birth, none has been successful in understanding 'birth' and 'death' of any organism. Though, I do not say that all those reports are fake; simply they are prejudiced in nature and are just documentation of 'heard' and 'seen' or 'GUESSED' and 'FELT' most of the time. It is an accepted fact that all 'SENSES', conscience, memory etc are the attributes of the 'living creature' or the body. Once dead, all those disappear and the SOUL or Vital force which makes a body 'live' is free from that body and its attributes. If soul can 'remember' or 'tend' to acquire qualities of previous birth, why doesnot it happen in every case? Why only Asian souls? Why not American souls? Why does this happen only in Hindu or Buddhist countries? That too out of 300 cases, why not much from south India?(In Dr. Pasricha's research; she is not from IISc, but NIMHANS, Bangalore) To be simple, arguing that soul can 'remember' is like arguing that - a flame of a lamp lit up remembers the match stick, the wicked lamp, the oil, and the threads which it burns and whenever it is puffed off and new lamp is lit up, it tries to burn like the previous one! Absolutely meaningless!? yours KAD , "vargottama" <vargottama> wrote: > The subject of reincarnation has received some "scientific" scrutiny. > One of the leading researchers in rebirth is at IISc, her name is > Satwant Pasricha. Here is a brief summary of her book: > > http://www.mumbai-central.com/nukkad/jul2001/msg00071.html > > Here's a paper that examines reports of rebirth from different parts > of India. It documents lots of interesting stuff. > > http://www.scientificexploration.org/jse/articles/pdf/15.2_pasricha. > pdf > > This person is the leading expert on rebirth research: > > http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation01.html > > One disturbing piece of info from the research is that you tend to be > inclined towards your habits from past life. So if you were an > alcoholic in one life, you will be positively inclined to alcohol in > the next. This is disturbing because it undermines the moral > argument associated with rebirth: that if you do bad this life, you > will suffer in the next one. But it looks like if you do bad in this > life, you will probably start early in the next! > > In a related strain, there are reports of people who receive organ > transplants, particularly heart transplants, remembering events and > people from the donor's life, especially ones from his/her moment of > death. > > I consider the issue of memory from past lives an open question, for a > very simple reason: we don't really understand what memory is, and how > it relates to consciousness. And after a hundred years of poking > around in the human brain, we still don't know where our long-term > memories are stored, and how. > > Ram > > , "kadrudra" <kadrudra> > wrote: > > Dear friends, > > > > 'what is unknown to all' is always interesting..including the > current > > topic of discussion - reincarnation! > > Some believe and some do not and the argument continues. All > > philosophies speculate on their own hypotheses and fail to PROVE > > whether there exists a process called Re-incarnation. But when it > > comes to astrology and re-incarnation, there is something > > interesting to know:(based on ancient works) > > > > 1. The SOUL or Atma has no memory; the only state it has is KARMA > and > > so a 're-born' can not 'remember' his/her past life! > > So, I do not believe that a re-born can guide one to his house of > > past life. > > > > 2. The SOUL has to travel a looooooooooong path to reach any > heavenly > > abode or LOKA; which is clear from ancient vedic works > > mentioning that an ATMA takes 13 days to slip off all its links > > with the earth and it takes thousands of Earthy years to > > reach the SWARGA(Heaven) or NARAKA(Hell). So, even if it is ONE > > DAY for an Atma, the Earth would have experienced many centuries! > > Thus, a RE-BORN finding his contemporaries on the Earth is > > completely ABSURD! Except for some TANTRIK process like > > ParakaayaPravesha > > (trans-migration of soul which I believe as the most difficult > > tantra), there is no possiblity of a soul 'remembering' things and > > finding old mates with its new body. (Interested members can read > > about it in the SAGA of PURI-JAGANNATHA, Garuda Purana and so on) > > > > I do not know whether these findings are rational or scientific but > > enough for me NOT TO believe anybody 'remembering' his/her > > last birth details. BUT, there are some situations, which make one > > TRIKALA-JNANI or the knower of past-present-future, for > > a RIGHT PURPOSEand I believe those are the qualities of the present > > life of the native and have nothing to do with his memory > > of the past life. > > > > Well, such arguments always continue....but this is just my share of > > this life! > > > > yours humbly > > KAD > > > > > > > > , arjun pandit > > <panditarjun2004> wrote: > > > Dear friend > > > > > > You have rightly put in the initial experiences of a BLESSED > > astrologer. Only those astrologers who are blessed by the god feel > > such experiences and would continue to do so only as long as they do > > sadhna. > > > > > > However, kindly note that once you start predictions on a regular > > basis and simultaneously do your sadhna and meditation, time > > immemorial, the predictions would be based more on intuition > > (clairvoyance?) and less on analysing the horoscope or seeing the > > person. In some cases, without seeing the peson or without knowing > > the name also I have predicted few things and they have come right. > > When a known person asked me to entertain Mr.x, I asked him to meet > > me the next day. But without knowing his name, d.o.b. or what is > his > > problem, I prepared a chart of him and also wrote down the problem > he > > is suffering. But these things happen rarely with divine grace only > > and no human being (including me) can attribute this power or skill > > to oneself. > > > > > > One person was suffering losses in all his businesses even though > > his horoscope is one of the best and his mahadasa and antardasa are > > best benefic planets. He lamented that he spent thousands of rupees > > visiting several astrologers and tantriks. Even I scratched my head > > initially but later, by god's grace, could predict that it is due to > > the Astam Mangal's malefic affect in his brother's chart. Later on > > remedies were done by both and they are now living happily. > > > > > > Also in two cases, I have predicted that they are possessed by > evil > > and that they have a sign of 666 in thier palm without seeing their > > hand. It proved true and in a photocopy of the palm also the 666 > > sign was visible and that paper was retained by me. But after he > was > > exorcised and the evil was driven off, the sign not only vanished > > from his hand but also from the photocopy. This sign and belief is > > as per christianity (written in Bible) and the exorcism is treated > as > > per occult sciences. Unfortunately in India little learned people > > call exorcism a bad science by calling them tantriks who do bad > > things. Little do they realise that Lord Saibaba was also a tantrik > > and he used his tantrik skills to help the suffering. > > > > > > The need arose to highlight my own experiences only to praise the > > divine power and divine grace and the great science of astrology. > > > > > > One word of caution to all my dear friends, studying a horoscope, > > knowing the problem and even predicting is easy but suggesting > > remedies to get what is not written and suggest remedies to get away > > from what one is suffering, IS POSSIBLE ONLY BY DIVINE POWER AND > > HENCE KEEP ON DOING YOUR SADHNA AND INCREASE THE DIVINE GRACE ON > YOU. > > > > > > With best wishes > > > > > > Arjun > > > > > > Anil VSNL <gogatea@v...> wrote: > > > Dear Mr. Rohiniranjan, > > > > > > Many thanks for all the nice things you have said about me. > > > > > > Last few years I have been studying and getting involved in those > > aspects of astrology which can be called as dealing > > with "supernatural powers , intuitions and rebirths" > > > > > > Just for example I realized that many of the astrologers are > > claimed to have "intuitive" powers. Even in my own case I have been > > able to predict amazingly accurately ( sometimes - not always ! ) > > about a client visiting me even before I have prepared his or her > > horoscope in details. I did a careful analysis of this. I realized > > that what one may call as intuition is actually processing logical > > steps at a very fast speed due to you fast mapping abilities and > > experience so that one would almost feel it as intuition. e.g. I > have > > seen so many cases of 1979 born between June 1979 till December 1979 > > who are not married yet , very emotional and sensitive , home loving > > etc etc that a new case comes of this band of 1979 , I can kind of > > create mental model of the issues client is facing much earlier. ( I > > have identified many such bands like 1974 unmarried , 1985 nov , dec > - > > Psychological problems etc ) Also the gaze , gesture - the body > > language of the client also keeps on telling you about > > > the person's mind set , attitudinal pattern , likely problems > > etc. So although my client started claiming that I have intuitive > > powers , eventually I realized that I absolutely do not have > > intuitive powers but it is only fast processing of logic as I said > > earlier. > > > > > > I also visited lots of Nadi centers in India and experimented with > > various Nadi samhitas. The common fundamental assumption in all the > > Nadis Samhitas is that you are having problems in the current birth > > due to your past birth sins. I sincerely felt that this assumption > > cannot be just written off as baseless or unscientific. There are > > many cases of positive feedbacks of people who have been benefited > > by doing shanti and diksha parihar to take care of past birth sins. > > > > > > In the history of man kind many theories which were described > > as "who do" , "black Magic" , Witch craft" etc initially were proved > > to be true and rational on scientific basis later on. > > > > > > I think due to all these experiences I have started believing that > > one day we may be able get "scientific proof" for theory of rebirth. > > > > > > At the same time I must say that I do not have time and > > institutional support to really verify authenticity of all these > > rebirth cases by going into details of such cases and ensuring that > > they are real and not "hoax". But I talked to couple of cases who > > claimed that they remember their past lives and I verified that they > > are not psychologically ill and there must be some element of > > substance and truth in what they are saying. > > > > > > Lastly even in case of astrology , I have met people who can tell > > your predictions accurately just by seeing your photo or having > look > > at you or even by asking a number of your choice or by face reading > . > > I was stunned to see such people telling very accurately and felt > > guilty that these people are eventually reaching same destination as > > what we reach with our scientific study of astrology of many years. > > What I am thinking is that these people use photos or number of your > > choice only as means for predictions or just to get "connected" and > > in reality there are some other powers or energies involved in their > > predicting accurately. > > > > > > So Mr. Rohiniranjan what I am trying to say is that certain > beliefs > > cannot be justified on the basis of rationality or scientific > > thinking, but if you form a firm conviction that those beliefs are > > true for whatever reason , what is the harm in continuing with these > > > beliefs ? > > > > > > Warm regards, > > > > > > > > > Anil Gogate > > > > > > > > > - > > > Rohini (Crystal Pages) > > > > > > Thursday, May 19, 2005 10:11 AM > > > Anil VSNL jee ... -- a naive question @ you, if I > > may? > > > > > > > > > Aniljee ...! > > > > > > YOU [at least on this forum] have always sounded like one who is > > a > > > rational being, promoting the pragmatic and the logical aspect > of > > > jyotish as most of us think we understand and k-n-o-w it; one > who > > had > > > been living in the real material reality, the reality that > really > > > counts on a day-to-day basis as hopefully most members would > > connect > > > to on a daily basis! > > > > > > Why/How would you explain or convince or even prove that rebirth > > of > > > an individual really takes place? > > > > > > Mind you, I am not talking about the recycling of carbon or C02 > > atoms > > > as Dr. Deepak Chopra talks about or the recycling of intestinal > > > mucosa or the stratum corneum as the ancient western scientists > > have > > > insisted it be called and decreed! > > > > > > Teach us Sir, about the astrological proof that there is rebirth > > and > > > that what most assume and flaunt to be true, indeed happens! > > HUMAN > > > REBIRTH for starters!! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > , Anil VSNL <gogatea@v... > > > > > wrote: > > > > Dear Mark, > > > > > > > > I have also heard of quite a few such stories and all of them > > would > > > not be manupulations or Hoax. I am a firm believer of rebirth > and > > > Nadi astrologers can tell you lots of details of your past > > births. > > > Listening or reading to those details is quite fascinating. > > > > > > > > However what must be happening is that only in very cases few > > cases > > > one "remembers" of the past birth at such articulate level like > > in > > > the case of story which you told. It is impossible with the > > current > > > knowledge of science to give rationale , analysis and > explanation > > for > > > such events. > > > > > > > > Apart from Nadi astrology I have read sometime back an article > > > related to how to predict what must have been one's past birth > > life. > > > I will try to relocate it from my achieves and post it. > > > > > > > > Thanks and with regards, > > > > > > > > Anil > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Mark Kincaid > > > > Vedic Astrology ; Jyotish Remedies... ; b) Astrology > > Group: ; > > > StudyYourStars > > > > Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:35 PM > > > > 2-all, re. great story about the reincarnation > > > aspect of life... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jay Bhagwan, > > > > > > > > > > I was not ready to believe that there are re-births > > > > > and such other courrces till I came across an > > > > > incident where a family from a small village in > > > > > Uttar Pradesh, ....(rest below).... > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vitthal: > > > > > > > > This is a beautiful story of the realities of reincarnation. > > > > > > > > Life without this understanding present's to us, a picture > of > > > anarchy and no > > > > rhyme or reason why things are the way that they are. > > > > > > > > One of the very reason's that I love Jyotish, too, so much > is > > > that it's > > > > another example, of a very compelling reason why Karma > > exists. > > > > > > > > After studying Jyotish for a number of year's it occured to > > me, > > > that the > > > > exact qualities, and characteristics of our Astrology > chart's > > are > > > another > > > > great explanation of the law of causality. > > > > > > > > Our Chart's indicate the karmas and thought pattern's that > we > > > were born, > > > > with, and as a result the predictable result's that will > > occur. > > > > > > > > This detail of specificity is very satisfying to the > > intellect > > > because it's > > > > bring's great understanding as to the why's of our live's. > > > > > > > > Another reason why I like your story, is it's also a great > > > description of > > > > the deeper, intuitive, and Consciousness aspect of life, > > that's > > > possible. > > > > > > > > This young soul, 'knew' the truth of his existence. > > > > His just knew the truth, and this story indicates the great > > role > > > of > > > > Consciousness, in both understanding the deep, symbolic > > meaning's > > > of our > > > > live's and the role of our wills, and consciousnesses for > > helping > > > us live > > > > the meaning's of our lives! > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark Kincaid > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Guru! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrologer > > > > Teacher of Meditation & Ayurved > > > > m.kincaid@m... > > > > 641 472-0000. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vitthal Dempo <vidempo1> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Jay Bhagwan, > > > > > > > > > > I was not ready to believe that there are re-births > > > > > and such other courrces till I came across an > > > > > incident where a family from a small village in > > > > > Uttar Pradesh, north of India came down to Thane > > > > > district in Maharashtra in western India. > > > > > > > > > > One fine day as I was sitting with a police > > > > > inspector at Wada Police station in Thane district, > > > > > an elderly man around 50,s with his wife around 45 > > > > > and his son around 8 years approached the officer > > > > > and the visitor naratted his story. > > > > > > > > > > He said, his son says that he has his wife and his > > > > > son staying at a village here at Javhar. We don't > > > > > have any idea and are rather suspicious about it > > > > > but the boy insists on going there and hence I have > > > > > come to you to take me there to find out as to what > > > > > is the truth? > > > > > > > > > > The officer Police Inspector Pitambar Pagare was > > > > > also surprised when the boy started telling about > > > > > the place where his wife and son are staying. He > > > > > could tell some minute details of the place. The > > > > > officer called Sub-Inspector Chapte at Javhar > > > > > Police Station and confirmed about the place. > > > > > > > > > > We later took the Police jeep and all of us went to > > > > > Javhar. After reaching the place, the boy started > > > > > directing the driver about his place and the driver > > > > > did the same as per the boy's directions. > > > > > > > > > > We finally came in front of a small hut and all > > > > > nearby people gathered near the police vehicle with > > > > > suspicion. The boy got down and started walking > > > > > towards the hut and called his Ex- wife by her > > > > > name. She was doing some thing inside and hearing > > > > > her name, she came out of the hut. She was around > > > > > 70,s and her son was around 45. The boy claimed > > > > > that she was his wife and also gave several > > > > > instances to prove it. The lady was puzzled, she > > > > > could not identify him as her husband but the boy > > > > > perfectly identified both of them. This was a > > > > > miracle like story for me. I was present there with > > > > > the family and later the lady said, her husband had > > > > > expired around 20 years ago and that whatever the > > > > > boy says is correct. The boy asked the old lady to > > > > > come with her to UP his new home and asked his > > > > > parents to bless their daughter-in-law and grand > > > > > son who were both major. > > > > > > > > > > We later came to the rest house and the father of > > > > > the boy narrated his story. It was since last 3 > > > > > years that his son was telling them to come down to > > > > > Thane in maharashtra and wanted to meet his wife and > > > > > son. He used to tell their names and their likings > > > > > and hobbies and finally his father decided to check > > > > > the facts behind all this and came down to the > > > > > police for help. > > > > > > > > > > The old lady accepeted whatever the boy said was > > > > > correct and even the son remembered some instances > > > > > his boy father told him and had happened in the > > > > > past. > > > > > > > > > > From this incidence I have started believing that > > > > > there are re- births. The time and period or each > > > > > birth depends and if you are more interested, I may > > > > > also direct you to a place where you can have > > > > > conversation with some ghosts or mrutatmas. > > > > > > > > > > I have witnessed that too! > > > > > > > > > > For more info you may write to me at my e-mail ID. > > > > > > > > > > Regards. > > > > > > > > > > Vitthal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- -- > -- > > ---- > > > ---------- > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > b.. > > > > > > > > > > > > c.. > > Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- -- > -- > > ---------- > > > Links > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > b.. > > > > > > > > > c.. Terms > of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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