2-Shripal..... re.... Jupiter & Saturn are the 2 Moksha Planets....> Mark Kincaid 4/25 Moksha

[Guest guest]

Dear Shripal:

 

I think we're getting to a point where 'semantics' are getting a little in

the way.

 

I want to say that I agree with you re. the nature of the transcendental

realm.

 

Having said that, maybe we need to clarity what the transcendental Self is.

 

It's 'that' which is beyond all forms.

It's that, from which all forms, come and to which all forms go.

The Self, is the source, and goal of all life.

In other words, it's the goal of all spiritual learnings.

 

If we can agree with some of this, then, we'll see that 'spirituality' has

'this', or God as it's Goal.

 

What I love about Astrology is you can see all the details of people's

lives.

 

You can see, people's spirituality, you can see their material urges, too.

 

They both, go hand in hand.

 

In truth, the World came to be, without really leaving the Absolute.

 

That transcendental realm, isn't just 'there', transcendental.

It's also permeating each and every fiber of the relative existence.

 

However, we've created this term 'transcendental' so we remember the

importance of going there, and enlivening that wholesome, area of life.

 

A time will come however, when that 'pure consciousness', no longer stays

transcendental, and then it becomes something completely different.

 

When the transcendental realm, gets enlived enough that it remains in one's

experience, during all the stages of one's life, whether waking, dreaming or

even deep sleep, then, that, pure consciousness, becomes Cosmic

Consciounsess.

 

This is the first great stage of Enlightenment, and one of the greatest

goals in all spiritual life.

 

Personally, I've spent more then over 35 years meditating because I've had

such an interest.

 

I know of 100's of other individuals who also have a strong interest in

spiritual concerns.

 

When I look at their charts I find a variety of wide Astrological

configuarations that reflect their deep interest in spiritual causes.

 

Many of them have a strong sannyasi, flavor and when I look at their charts,

Saturn is very predominant.

 

Others have a more Jupiter quality, and yes, you're right, they may also

have some accomplishments in the World, as well.

 

Have you ever heard the phrase: "200% of life". In the TM movement, the

Guru of TM coined this, saying the purpose of life, is to live 200% of

life."

 

This means 100% of deep spiritual accomplishment, and enlightenment, and

100% of outer accomplishments and fulfillments of desire.

 

And, though I hardly knew what this meant for many years, now I'm beginning

to get a clue.

 

Now, I believe that it's possible to get both one's inner enlightenment, and

then, live that in the World, in existence.

 

The Jyotish is about the relative, so in a since I see why you say what

you're saying.

 

But, the 'relative' for some, is really all about finding the inner,

transcendental, spiritual, and absolute part of life.

 

That particular flavor must be in the Jyotish, too.

 

In my case, my Moon was in the 12th house.

 

That alone gave an early interest in deep philosophical things.

 

My Moon was also being aspected by a Jupiter/Pisces, in my 6th house.

 

I've heard that Jupiter aspecting one's Moon, is very good for spiritual

concerns and pursuits.

 

I also have my Saturn, in the 12th, with Saturn.

 

Both of these configurations have been deeply spiritual realities for me.

 

However, there have also been negatives of some of these configurations.

 

Moon's in the 12th, but it's the lord of my 10th, like yours!

 

For many years, even when I was a teacher of meditation, I felt 'lost' to

what was my true career! Weird!

 

Then, especially after studying Jyotish, I realized what that 12th house

meant.

 

It means the last house in the Zodiac, which represents the transcendental

realm.

 

And, I've loved finding that inner core, through meditation.

 

It still is the #1 goal of my life, the unfoldment of that reality.

 

However, I'm also learning that there are some malefic aspects that I'm much

happier having learned to resolve.

 

For example, both Moon & Saturn there, also meant I didn't really care about

money.

 

And yet I also wanted relationships, and marriage, due to other influences

perhaps, and so after 2 marriages and 2 divorces & bankrupacies! I realized

I was treating money matters, like a purusha, or sannyasi person instead of

a householder.

 

So, I decided to learn about money. I went to the library picked out these

books and videos all about money and discovered the first, most important

principle is: to create an emergency fund, of at least 6 months of your

expenses.

 

Wow! When I thought about this, I realized I never had this. I doubt if I

ever had 6 weeks!, maybe 6 days, and then I got it.

 

Those planets there, though they were very conducive for pursuing

transcendental concerns, were not very healthy for physical worldy ones.

 

(Coincidentally, I have met people who have the Lord of the 12th in the

12th, and they 2 have a strong transcendental side, but they're much more

hip with the wisdom of savings!)

 

So, I got the idea that I might really benefit from changeing my ways,

associated with money and savings.

 

I remember it took me over 6 months to save up my first 1,000$, it was like

swimming up stream! But, even though the 6 months of my expenses hadn't

been reached, I immediately noticed that everything related to the World was

easier.

 

Unforseen expenses would pop up and now for the first time, I was

financially prepared. That experience inspired me to go for the full 6

months!

 

When I finally achieved that, then, I felt a reserve and a power in the

World, never experienced before.

 

Now I believe money is to the World, what deep rest and silence is to the

body and the mind!

 

Both of which are very good Saturn things to do, to save, and to rest, more

deeply.

 

I realized later that I had this strange fear that I'd become somehow more

materialistic if I concerned myself with money.

 

In reality just the opposite happened. Once I learned to handle money, and

especially my 12th aspect of it, hehe, I found that I actually felt more

free to pursue my spiritual interests, and especially transcendental

concerns.

 

Now, I believe all planets have their transcendental realm.

 

It is said, from every point of the mind, and life, one can get to the

absolute, transcendental reality.

 

It's said that one can find the self, through the mind.

 

When we meditate, we close the eyes, and theres a flood of thoughts, one

after the other, they go on like a long chain of undiminished pearls.

 

I realized this is the level of Mercury inside of us. That area of the mind

where we think, make decisions, and have our associative thinkings.

 

Then, we pick up our mantra, and thinking it in the appropriate way, the

mind begins to get more quiet.

 

Thoughts begin to settle down, and one then begins to experience, deeper

levels of the mind, where such things as feelings and intuition reside.

 

Here I realized this is where we have our Moon's.

 

Continuing, then, at times, we find ourselves, completely settled, in the

state of no-thought.

 

The mind, at times, becomes completely quiet and still, and we're left

experiencing that inner, source of thought.

 

It can be called transcendental, because normally we have to go 'beyond'

thought to get to it.

It's beyond thought, it's beyond the World, it's beyond the entire relative.

 

It's been said that the deepest level of the mind, represents the level

where ego resides.

 

That part of us, that maintains the reality of relative 'I', which

interestingly enough seems to coincide with the Sun, in us.

 

However, the Sun's also supposed to be symbolic of Father, and God, too, so

I take that symbol of a circle, and I draw it over the line, so to speak,

between the transcendental, and the relative, I, ego.

 

Now I believe the Sun is both, indicative of our relative selves, along with

the symbolism of our absolute selves.

 

To me, the point is to not only find that transcendental part, but to also

live that Self.

 

That which is originally transcendental, can eventually become livable, in

the relative.

 

The amazing thing, is, it still maintains it's absolute, transcendental,

perfection, even while it begins to be more lived in the World.

 

Enlightenment, is not just something that we need to go and live in the

caves for, it's something that once experienced and maintained can be lived

anywhere in the World.

 

 

Fun, talking with you.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

Mark Kincaid

 

 

 

 

 

Astrologer

Teacher of Meditation, Ayurved

m.kincaid

641 472-0000.

 

 

 

 

 

 

> Shripal <d_shripal

> Sun, 24 Apr 2005 22:50:40 -0700 (PDT)

>

> 2-All re.... Jupiter & Saturn are the 2 Moksha Planets....> Mark

> Kincaid 4/24 Moksha

>

> Jai Jinendra Mark,

>

> I accept,planets are mirror of our ohysical existense,

> But not our sub-concious or soul existense.don't tell

> me Sun represents our very soul.no it doesn't in

> reality.I represents a 5 tattawas that is soul is

> bounded with in a form of soul.

>

> What Mahavira and there Gandhar has said about

> transcedental exp in one's Life.

> Moksha is when 3 things stops in Life.

> 1)Vachha,you stop speaking,seeing etc etc.

> 2)Mind stops thinking.

> 3)Blood folw through streams stops,body is hard rock.

>

> so what exist is soul.If you can do that a a very

> existense of your's than,you have achieved Moksha.

>

> As who has got that he knows everthing,but nothing to

> do with anything.It is called Moksha,were

> physical,mental everything doesn't exist.

>

> Does any planet represents such a phase or combination

> to get that.even if you will take all planets exalted

> or any combination,You will never get such a

> stage.Because they are also bounded with Karmas and

> thet also want to same what Mahavira,Gautam or crores

> that have gone Moksha.

>

> As they have nothig to do with us,But we hav got

> everthing to do with them and not anyone else,our

> existense is to be like them,But it is our own karmas

> which divert us form that path.

>

> So going against our Karmas is going against time or

> planets.

>

> So I disagree jupiter and Saturn are two Moksha

> planets,as they also want Moksha and free from duties

> that they are doing.But yes they may denote a path to

> achieve that,rather actually that.

>

> --- Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid wrote:

>

>> Dear All:

>>

>> Don't forget that it's through the relative that we

>> get to the

>> transcendental.

>>

>> Having meditated, myself for over 30 years now, I

>> can attest to the fact,

>> that one goes,

>> to the 'transcendental', 'moksha' realm, through the

>> relative.

>>

>> But, you're right there is a trick to it. The key,

>> in meditation, is in

>> lessening mental activity.

>>

>> The mind as it turns inwards, doesn't get to the

>> no-thought state by having

>> thoughts, or trying or doing anything.

>>

>> The key is to do less and less.

>>

>> This is why Saturn is thought to be the planet of

>> transcendence, because it

>> 'contracts', and as 'it' gets smaller and smaller,

>> then evenutually the

>> transcendental is reached.

>>

>> Jupiter on the other hand 'expands' to the Self.

>>

>> You'll have these two classic experiences in

>> meditation, at different times.

>>

>> Sometimes, you'll feel like you're expanding, and

>> getting bigger and bigger,

>> till, whoosh, you go off, you forget where you

>> are,....and then poppinig

>> back into the relative, you've realized,... you

>> didn't fall asleep, and you

>> went somewhere.

>>

>> Other times, you'll feel that quality of getting

>> smaller and smaller, though

>> I have to say, it's not a feeling of becoming less

>> and less, it's just this

>> since, of getting more and more,.... to a point of

>> stillness, and then,

>> again, boom, you're gone, not experiencing anything

>> anymore, .....

>> and then later you come back.

>>

>> You do this activity long enough and regularly

>> enough, and eventually,

>> whenever you close your eyes, or whenever you're

>> asleep, or whenever, even

>> in activity,... you're 'there' in that,... formerly

>> 'transcendental' realm.

>>

>> Then, you've unfolded true moksha or enlightenment.

>>

>> It's a very exciting field today, because this whole

>> science and art of

>> transcending has been revised, and is now know to be

>> the simpliest, easiest,

>> most natural thing one can do.

>>

>> See, the ability to do less, is contained in the

>> ability to do more.

>>

>> The ability to stand still, is, contained in the

>> ability to walk.

>>

>> Therefore, the ability to 'be', with the Self, is

>> already there within us.

>>

>> We just have to turn within, and learning how, is

>> the delicious art of

>> meditating.

>>

>> If the mind and consciousness can do it, then there

>> must be some

>> Astrological planets that coincide with moksha and

>> liberation.

>>

>> Sincerely,

>>

>>

>> Mark Kincaid

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> Hope this helps.

>>

>>

>> Sincerely,

>>

>>

>> Mark Kincaid

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> "natalcharts_biz" <natalcharts_biz

>>

>> Sun, 24 Apr 2005 06:48:41 -0000

>>

>> Re:8th lord from Saturn -> Partha garu

>> :-)) realised--Moksha

>>

>>

>>

>> Sri Inderji

>> I fully confer with you on the thought that the

>> grahas (seizers)

>> cannot be moksha karakas. They are themselves within

>> the parameters of

>> space time and causation.

>>

>> To verify, Veda is a pramana. Jeevan muktas make

>> Moksha verifiable.

>> Bhagwan Ramana Maharishi, Sri Ramakrishna

>> Paramhansa, Swami Rama

>> Tirtha and countless others verify it.

>>

>> Moksha is not something to be achieved but to be

>> realized: I am what I

>> am without respect to time space and causation. It

>> is realization of

>> the Mahavakya : Aham Brahma Asmi.

>>

>> Therefore, I only wish to differ you on the non

>> verifiable portion of

>> your argument.

>>

>> Hari Om Tat Sat

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> , "Inder"

>> <indervohra2001>

>> wrote:

>>>

>>> Dear Friends,

>>> Namaskar everybody,

>>> In my opinion in the state of Moksha

>> charts/horoscopes are not valid.

>>> All planets, house, lagnas etc merge to zero.

>>>

>>> Horoscope is for a birth on this earth. Your life,

>> achievements,

>>> sorrows, happiness ---all verifyable.

>>> Concept of Moksha is not verifyable. In other

>> religions concept of

>>> Moksha is not applicable. They believe in other

>> type of treatments

>>> after death, which also is not verifyable.

>>> So astro chart may be used for living in this

>> life.

>>> Inder

>>>

>>>

>>> -- In , Shripal

>> <d_shripal>

>>> wrote:

>>>> Jai Jinendra,

>>>>

>>>> It is very much common sense,As planets are also

>>>> bounded with Karmas, as they have to fulfill a

>> desire

>>>> of one's as per there karmas and act,so very

>> simple

>>>> they are not God,But yes they are superior to us

>> and

>>>> very high category devatas.

>>>>

>>>> AS per my studies,A GOd is one who has nothing

>> to do

>>>> with us and out of boundage of any Karmas and

>> with

>>>> whom we have got everything to do.Very simple if

>> I or

>>>> you go moksha,why the hell you have got anything

>> to do

>>>> with me.

>>>>

>>>> It matters only when I am superior to you or

>> inferior

>>>> to you and turn the things around in order to

>> feel

>>>> great.

>>>>

>>>> So I accept as Buddha,Mahavira and other

>> tirthankaras

>>>> out of boundage and various crores who have

>> become

>>>> sidhas and got nothing to do with us and put

>> there

>>>> paths towards that to follow are God or in

>> Moksha.Else

>>>> who ever is dealing with sansar or anything in

>> this

>>>> world concious or sub-concious,material etc etc

>> are

>>>> superior to us,as there punyas are highe than

>> our's

>>>> ,But they too are striving for moksha and one

>> more

>>>> thing there age might be lakh or 10 lakh

>> years,as

>>>> world started billion,billion year ago.But there

>> end

>>>> will also come and get a gati as per there

>> Karmas.

>>>>

>>>> --- Partha Sarathy <partvinu@g...> wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> Dear Shripal

>>>>> How do you know? Have you got salvation?

>>>>> best wishes

>>>>> partha

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> On 4/23/05, Shripal <d_shripal> wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Jai Jinendra,

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I don't think from one's chart anyone can

>>>>> determine

>>>>>> that individual is going to go

>> Moksha.Because it

>>>>> is

>>>>>> more for a free will rather than boundage

>> effect

>>>>> of

>>>>>> planets.It is against them and not with help

>> of

>>>>> them.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Planets shows karma and nullifying Karmas

>> means

>>>>> going

>>>>>> against them and it is more of strong free

>> will

>>>>> than

>>>>>> anything else.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> --- Partha Sarathy <partvinu@g...> wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Dear Utpal

>>>>>>> I just realised what about those poor

>> fellows

>>>>> who

>>>>>>> have Saturn in gemini and

>>>>>>> Cancer!!

>>>>>>> best wishes

>>>>>>> partha

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> On 4/23/05, Partha Sarathy <partvinu@g...>

>>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Dear Utpal

>>>>>>>> No, i am not aware of such a dictum. I

>> have

>>>>> not

>>>>>>> read in classics also.

>>>>>>>> Best of luck for such people who have

>> this,

>>>>>>> atleast this will make them

>>>>>>>> feel happy :-))))

>>>>>>>> Do you seriously think that Moksha is a

>> laddu

>>>>> to

>>>>>>> be eaten or some prize to

>>>>>>>> be won, or the end of all??

>>>>>>>> I am deviating, sorry.

>>>>>>>> best wishes

>>>>>>>> partha

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> On 4/23/05, utpal pathak

>>>>> <vedic_pathak>

>>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Dear Partha Garu & all others,

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> I just now came to know an intresting

>>>>> 'Sutra'

>>>>>>> from an Reputed Jyotish

>>>>>>>>> magazine.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Sutra --> If the 8th house from Saturn

>> is

>>>>>>> Occupied by it's Own lord,

>>>>>>>>> there is NO Rebirth and Final

>> Salvation is

>>>>>>> shown.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> are you aware of such dictum?

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Pathak

>>>>>>>>>

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>>>>

>>

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>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>

> --

>>> ~->

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Archives:

>>>>>>>

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>>>>>

>>>>

>>

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>>>>>>>>> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on

>> us

>>>>> .......

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

>>>>> Krishnaarpanamastu

>>>>>>> ||

>>>>>>>>> Links

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>> V.Partha Sarathy,

>>>>>>>> partvinu.blogspot.com

>>>>> <http://partvinu.blogspot.com>

>>>>>>> <http://partvinu.blogspot.com/>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> All that we are is the result of what we

>> have

>>>>>>> thought. If a man speaks or

>>>>>>>> acts with an evil thought, pain follows

>> him.

>>>>> If a

>>>>>>> man speaks or acts with a

>>>>>>>> pure thought, happiness follows him,

>> like a

>>>>> shadow

>>>>>>> that never leaves him.

>>>>>>>> -----Buddha

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Plot.no.71

>>>>>>>> Road No.3

>>>>>>>> Nagarjuna Hills

>>>>>>>> Hyderabad

>>>>>>>> India-500 082

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>> V.Partha Sarathy,

>>>>>>> partvinu.blogspot.com

>>>>> <http://partvinu.blogspot.com> <

>>>>>> http://partvinu.blogspot.com>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> All that we are is the result of what we

>> have

>>>>>>> thought. If a man speaks or

>>>>>>> acts with an evil thought, pain follows

>> him. If

>>>>> a

>>>>>>> man speaks or acts with a

>>>>>>> pure thought, happiness follows him, like

>> a

>>>>> shadow

>>>>>>> that never leaves him.

>>>>>>> -----Buddha

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Plot.no.71

>>>>>>> Road No.3

>>>>>>> Nagarjuna Hills

>>>>>>> Hyderabad

>>>>>>> India-500 082

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Love is the beauty of the soul

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Small Business - Try our new

>> resources

>>>>> site!

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Archives:

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>>>>>>

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>>>>>

>>>>

>>

> vedic astrology/info.html

>>>>>>

>>>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

>>>>> vedic astrology-

>>>>>>

>>>>>> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us

>> .......

>>>>>>

>>>>>> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

>> Krishnaarpanamastu ||

>>>>>> Links

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> --

>>>>> V.Partha Sarathy,

>>>>> partvinu.blogspot.com

>> <http://partvinu.blogspot.com>

>>>>>

>>>>> All that we are is the result of what we have

>>>>> thought. If a man speaks or

>>>>> acts with an evil thought, pain follows him.

>> If a

>>>>> man speaks or acts with a

>>>>> pure thought, happiness follows him, like a

>> shadow

>>>>> that never leaves him.

>>>>> -----Buddha

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Plot.no.71

>>>>> Road No.3

>>>>> Nagarjuna Hills

>>>>> Hyderabad

>>>>> India-500 082

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Love is the beauty of the soul

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Make your home page

>>>> http://www./r/hs

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

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