2-Shipal, & all, re. Aspect v/s Placement, .ie. conjunction/or influencing, and aspecting....., > Mark Kincaid

[Guest guest]

Dear Shripal:

 

Maybe we should use the word, 'influence' when more then 1 planet are in the

same sign/house, and are 'influecing' each other.

 

That makes it easier, for me, to then use the word, 'aspect' for what

individual planets, 'do' in reference to places in the chart, outside of the

house they're in....

 

Also, maybe we should focus on the full aspects first, the 50% aspect or 75%

aspect, I believe, is too complicated at this stage.

 

But, understanding that every planet influences, like a Sun, anything else,

within the 30"/ degrees.... of the Sign that it's in.

 

So, my Moon does get 'influenced' by the Saturn, that's going on within the

same sign, Virgo, in my 12th house.

 

Jyotish then, describes the rules for that kind of 'conjunction'.

 

Which planet is in the higher degrees, generally, 'wins', in dominance,....

but as in my case, because my Moon's running about the 26th degree of Virgo,

and my Saturn about the 10th degree of Virgo.... I do notice .... that 'it'

feels better,...

then, say any month when the Moon's getting closer and closer to say,

Saturn.... the 'negative' influence seems strongest.... coming right up to

Sani, and then quickly begins to diminish, even the moment, it starts to

move to the other side, or beyond the degrees, of Saturn.

 

These 'influences' then, get more complicated the more planets that are all

in a house.

 

When 'one' talks to more and more people who also have 3, 4, or even 5

planets within the same sign, you sense,....that increasing drama....

 

I have one friend with Sun, Moon, Saturn, Venus and Mercury, all in Cancer

in her 9th house...

 

She's both the sweetest lady but also a very complicated one....

 

First of, Jyotish has these rules, about which Planets like being in

Cancer....

 

Moon for example, loves being in Cancer.

 

Saturn, on the other hand, like the transit, we recently started in, ...

often does not....

 

Then, you add the complication of the Sun's presence, meaning she's born on

top of a New Moon.

 

So, the Moon's good quality, but completely small.

 

Venus likes being in Cancer, Sun's okay, there,...

and Mercury, or intellectualizing, is a little 'too mushy' in Cancer's

energy....

 

I notice she's a lot like these rules of the different Planets in Cancer....

 

Oh, yes, I forgot to mention that Saturn is creating quite a bit of

'mischief' there.

 

Most planets do not fare well with Saturn's closer 'influence', even when

Sani's more positive, even in it's Own Sign, or Exalted,....it still acts

like Saturn....

 

I've been working with here, on her chart for a couple of years now, and one

of the first break throughs she's been going through is understanding that

all of her 'Cancerish' nourishing, which she loves to do so much.....is in

fact, a little bit out of balance...

 

In other words, she has this habit of liking to give to others, but probably

because of Saturn's place in Cancer, she doesn't turn that same habit, onto

herself...

 

So, Saturn acts mostly malefically.

 

We've then, been working most on that.

 

And now, she's beginning to create more 'balance' with her Saturn.

 

As she does that, then, the dynamics of the mutual, 'influences' of all her

Planets, is starting to subside, more....

 

At any time, when ever we talk about the 'aspecting' going on on all those

planets in the 9th house, ..... we do talk sometimes, about the fact, that

Saturn's 3rd house aspect upon her 11th house, and the important energy of

acquiring wealth, or financial support, is strongly hindered, especially

when Saturn's out of balance.

 

It's a good inticement, telling her she'll actually attract more money, the

more in-balance, she gets with Saturn!

 

I also like Jyotish's point that in including 'Aspects', ..... when 2 or

more planets are within the same house/sign, when considering Aspects, it's

supposed to be true, that the Planets carry with their aspect,....the

vibration or effect of being in such close proximity with other Planets.

 

This means that 2 negatives, together, like say Mars & Saturn, because their

patterns of aspecting are different,....

 

Saturn's 3, 7 & 10 houses away while Mars is 4, 7 & 8.

 

This means that when considering Saturn's 3rd house aspect, one needs to

take into account, Saturn then, 'carrying' with it, Mars influence into that

3rd house aspect....

 

And conversely, when considering Mars' 4th house aspect, then, one needs to

consider, Mars' carrying with 'it', Saturn's influence into that same, 4th

house....

 

So, you can see how it's getting complicated.

 

But, I find it important to understand each layer, soooo well, that when you

start to consider, these over-lapping influences, they make sense, and don't

confuse....

 

See below:

 

 

 

 

 

Shripal <d_shripal

Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:28:36 -0800 (PST)

Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid

[vedic astrology] Re: 2-Shipal, & all, Aspect v/s Placement, > Mark

Kincaid

 

 

Hi Mark,

 

If planets are together in a same sign,Than isn't that

means they are aspecting each other and becuase of

there mutual relationship that they develop will

influence a place where they are placed plus where

each of them is aspecting.

 

yes, you're right.

 

Again while aspecting they

might come in aspect with other forces.So total

prediction will change.Along with that there is

transit and Dasa too involved.

 

And this is why I said, we might want to get really familiar with the

different 'aspects' of conjunction and planets in different signs, and

how they aspect first, before we then, venture into how, these influences,

will be manifesting within different dasas and transits.

 

Simple rule of thumb, of course, is that the negative or malefic

configurations in our charts,

will 'probably' manifest negatively in both those 'malefic' dasas and

transits.

 

But, I'm so 'in, to' the possiblitiy of transforming our malefics into

benefics, that I don't

focus so much on the staticness of only seeing 'negatives' in, malefics

effects.

 

I think, now, today, that it's one of the most important areas, in Jyotish,

to figure out literally,

how any malefic can and is really supposed to be improved!

 

Take my own Moon &/or Saturn in my 12th house....

 

All of my life, both these Planets were very associated with all the

negative associations one might understand; to refer to the Moon &

Saturn.../ in the 12th house.

 

But, wanting so much to feel better, happier, and less upset, lonely or

isolated, I was very drawn to the progressive, up-lifting qualities, of

things like meditation....

 

And with each month, that I meditated, for example, the negatives of

Moon/Saturn there, started becoming less and less.

 

Then, when I started studying Jyotish and especially watching the transits,

I again, became aware of how literally 2 weeks of each month, almost the

entire Waning Moon period, 'felt rough' for me...

 

But, I also, quickly found that as I learned that this period was like the

inward, restful, period of meditation,.... and I allowed myself to take it

more easy,....during this time of the month....

 

my students said it was like I had Cosmic, pms.... hehhee

 

anyway, then, quickly I noticed that even this very strongly unenjoyable and

even 'negative' time of the month, started becoming more positive.

 

Now, after a few years at this, I'm happy to report that all the earler,

negative feelings of this transit, have been transformed, into a much more

enjoyable,....though distinctly, 'inward' quality of that Waningness.....

 

Maybe we need to just regularly talk about transformations of the Planets,

at the same time as we talk about the 'Understanding',....of the Jyotish.

 

 

 

But in all this as I

said when to mutual force combine we get totally a new

dish for a lunch.So it can be good in taste or OK or

bad.But when two forces combine through Aspect,I

believe especially when two forces combine in aspect,

A person's personality,attitude towards life,current

event results along with transit and Dasa, his

thinking ability all changes because of relationship

develop through aspect.

 

Yes, you're right.

 

If I am wrong please clarify,Aspect is always 100%

resultant good or bad,

 

I don't think 'it's right' to say, 'aspect' is always 100%.

 

There are those 100% aspects, and then, Jyotish says one

can consider 80% or 50% influences, of the aspects too.

 

Personally, I haven't found this level of detail as important,

because most people haven't even come to understand the significance

of even their complete 100% aspects.

 

while placement is not,Because I

read in some book,If planet is weakly placed than id

doesn't give whole results,Good or Bad,no results at

all.

 

But if this weakly placed planets aspected by let say

another weakly placed planet,may be trine(50%) or

opposite(100%) aspect,So aspect can be never weak,

 

I think we can say, an aspect of a malefic planet or malefic planets in

conjunction

can be 'negative'....and therefore debilitating, or produce 'weakness'....

 

it's

like these bodies give no results for placement being

weaker.But in aspect becuase palcement is weak,that

doesn't mean aspect is weak,Aspect works normally at

100% result,so even no result given planet aspect each

other,they will give bad result,but they definately

give result,unlike placement.

 

Oh, I think I see what you're saying.

 

Yes, I'd agree, the aspecting seems to be consistent at different 'degrees'

of influence.

 

But, I have found that the different 'aspects' that especially, Mars,

Saturn, Jupiter & Rahu/Ketu,

are supposed to have, do seem different.

 

For example, the 3rd house aspect of Saturn, doesn't seem quite as strong as

the 7th house aspect. Also, the 10th house, doesn't seem as strong as the

3rd house aspect.

 

Though I haven't read much about these 'differences'....

 

 

 

I haven't put it in proper way ,What I want to say.Let

me come with some example.But I want from

members,Conjuct palnet aspect each other isn't it?

 

Again, yes, let's say conjunct planets do 'influence' each other,...

though let's reserve the word, 'aspect' for their influences.... outside of

the 30 degrees,

of the Sign, and House, in which they're co-habitating!

hehhee

 

 

take care,

 

 

Mark Kincaid

 

 

 

 

founder....Nature's Astrology...."best of West & East"....

/

m.kincaid

641 472-0000

 

 

ps.... went to bed last night with the Moon in Taurus..... and awoke this

am,.... about 2:45am...

with a lot of bliss and mmmmmmmm, and then wondered,....if Moon might be

getting close to that 5th house aspect of Jupiter, predicted....

 

and lo, and behold, Moon was at the 23rd degree of Taurus, while Jupiter's

running now, about the 24th degree of Virgo....

 

So, from Virgo, counting Virgo as 1,... Jupiter's most strongly influencing

the same degrees, in which it's running, and in this case,...getting near

that 24th degree, even in Taurus, is quite amazingly..... wonderful!

 

Nice to find a positive 'aspect' for a change! hehehe

 

I think it's so fabulous to have this opportunity by looking at our

experiences, and even writing them, down.... we can see over the next few

weeks,.... as the Moon gets closer again to where Jupiter in....

 

whether,....Jupiter's influence 9 houses away, is stronger or the same as

when Moon returns to Virgo, where it will again be 'conjunct' with Jupiter.

 

I do find one other thing, and that is....depending upon how big or small

the Moon, is.... the influence....from Jupiter, in this case, or other

planets.... does seem to get influenced... by the inherent 'strength' of the

Moon, too....

 

For example, the Moon's now Waxing,....so it seems brighter...stronger....

and it'll be interesting to see, over these next few weeks, whether,....the

next Moon/Jupiter conjunction is effected by the fact, that the Moon will be

Waning, by then....

 

mmmmmmm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid wrote:

 

> Dear Shripal:

>

> See below:

>

>

>

> > Shripal <d_shripal

> > Wed, 19 Jan 2005 21:54:45 -0800 (PST)

> > Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid

> > 2-Shipal, Ramakrishna, & all, RE: Aspect

> v/s Placement, > Mark

> > Kincaid

> >

> > Hi Mark and All.

> >

> > thanks Mark,

> >

> > Yes,exactly when transit moves over your natal

> > placement,so what is working,isn't it aspect that

> is

> > working.

>

> I find there are two things here.

>

> #1, there's the effect when say the Moon moves into

> the next Sign,

> say where Saturn is, 'in the sky',....

>

> In 2 days for example Moon moves into Gemini, where

> Saturn is.

>

> #2, then, there's the effect of say the Moon moving

> into the same house,

> where our Natal Saturn is, 'in our charts'....

>

> This can be 'felt' in the same way, though these two

> different ways....

>

> represent the Transits, vs. the effect of the

> transits, upon our individual

> charts....!

>

> both of which I believe are important....

>

> personally I find the effects of the Transits, 'out

> there', more intense,

> then say,

> when Moon moves into Virgo, each month, where my

> natal Moon is....

>

> I'm so used to that, that it's effects don't seem

> soooo intense....

> but when the Moon moves into the space where the

> transiting Saturn 'is',

> that seems

> much more strong...

>

> Even if you have got exalted saturn in your

> > chart,when transit moon goes over it ,you will

> feel

> > lonliness,allof etc.When Mars hover your saturn,

> you

> > are very uncomfortalbe with your situation's in

> your

> > life,either you feel like destroying everything

> around

> > you or just destroy yourself.

>

> See below:Yes, yes,...this is exactly what I love

> about watching the

> transits,...

> after even 12 months, you'll be so much more clear

> about what 'effects' come

> to one,

> through the transits, ....that...

> you'll be much more prepared.... to

> understand....'where' ....'these'

> effects are coming..

>

> Then, in the future, we'll be more wise, and not

> 'blame' so much 'others'

> because of something that's either coming to us from

> the outer stars....

> or coming to us ....from our....inner stars.....

>

> >

> > So How did we lost a qualities of Placement.How

> come

> > placement looses its theme and get more influenced

> by

> > aspect.

>

> I've heard it described both ways....by different

> astrologers....

>

> I think it happens, when the general, 'experience'

> of Astrology gets lost...

>

> Even though modern day, 'Astrologers' may be very

> good at understanding

> intellectually,

> Astrology,....still it's not the same,....as having

> learned to feel the

> Stars....

>

> I think experience in Consciousness, in meditation,

> has helped me

> emmensely,....

> because I'm more awake, in the soul, in the silence

> of life....

>

> and the Stars, exist.... predominantly in

> silence....

>

> In fact, at some point when I was 'watching' the

> transits, it occured to me,

> ....

> I hadn't heard anyone describe how,.... no matter

> 'what' transits are going

> on....

>

> whether it's a clear day, and everything's feeling

> smooth,....

> or a very rough day, and stormy....etc....

>

> what I noticed, was .... within both

> days,....there's this incredible

> experience of eternal....

> silence....

>

> and 'that'....is the core, the essence of life....

>

> In fact,....the most important thing....

>

> because it's in going to 'that',....accessing

> 'that', that any improvement,

> transformation,...

> can really be accomplished..... on the outer.....

>

>

>

> Act as a modifier.Transit is a best way to

> > describe Aspect being more powerful than just

> > placement.

>

> personally, my experience is the opposite....

>

> I experience, when 2 planets are in the same house

> as being stronger,....

> but that's not to say your experience couldn't be

> the opposite...

>

> I find for example, that a lot of people experience

> the dasas, stronger,

> then the transits,.....

> and that goes along with the classic Jyotish

> descriptions....

>

> but for me, I've learned that 'I', experience the

> transits, more

> strongly....

>

> Also, ....Jyotish says that the 'transits' should be

> looked at through the

> Moon chart....

> but I find the Rasi chart, ....looking at the

> transits, via. one's rising

> sign, ....

> is more accurate for me,....and for many others....

>

> We all need to learn to experience....the stars....

>

> I am talking about when to mutual force

> > combine,it will always be powerful than just being

> > alone.It can act as a destroyer and even rebuilder

> of

> > your evnts in life.Life is not stagnant or

> constant

> > like Placement.But rather everyday changing and

> who is

> > influencing that,Transit and How through

> aspect,isn't

> > it?.If i am wrong correct me.

> >

> Nice talking with you...

>

>

> Mark Kincaid

>

>

>

> founder....Nature's Astrology....

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > --- Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid wrote:

> >

> >> Hi Ramakrishna ,

> >>

> >> No sirji,What you said I have already talked

> about

> >> that previous.Same thing aspect is as good as

> >> placement means Venus when aspect from pisces

> gives

> >> same results

> >> as jupiter placed in pisces.that means full

> >> effect,not

> >> a quality wise,quantity wise effect will be

> maximum.

> >>

> >> When planet is aspecting some house, without any

> >> planets in it,means effect will be equvalent to

> >> placement.Aspect and Placement we are talking

> about

> >> is

> >> quantity wise and not qualitywise,That will

> depend

> >> upon mutual relationship,sign in whci placed

> etc.OK.

> >>

> >> --- Ramakrishna <ramki

> wrote:

> >>

> >>

> >> Dear Shipal & All:

> >>

> >> This is a fascinating aspect of Jyotish, ahhh, no

> >> pun intended, heheeheh.

> >>

> >> But, another really good way to tell whether

> >> 'conjunction', or when a planet

> >> is in a house,

> >> or opposite another house, or even in it's

> >> aspectings,.... is to look at

> >> these through the eyes,

> >> of the daily, weekly, monthly and yearly

> >> transits....

> >>

> >> Watch the Moon for example.

> >>

> >> When the Moon moves through the sky and moves

> >> through our charts, especially

> >> when you can learn to 'feel' it, you can start to

> >> realize...the real truths

> >> of Jyotish.

> >>

> >> For example, when the Moon is getting bigger,

> like

> >> now, and then when it

> >> moves through the different signs, and especially

> >> moves into similar houses

> >> with other planets.... you can really feel those!

> >>

> >> Take the up-coming Moon & Saturn conjunction

> >> starting in about 2 days....

> >>

> >> Right now the Moon's in Taurus, and only at the

> 3rd

> >> degree, so still a lot

> >> of Exaltedness, left....

> >>

> >> But in a 'few' days, let's say 2 1/2, the Moon

> will

> >> move into Gemini, where

> >> it will come within 30 degrees of any planets in

> >> Gemini.

> >>

> >> Right now, Saturn has Retrograded back into

> Gemini,

> >> so soon, the Moon &

> >> Saturn will be conjunct.

> >>

> >> So, everyone watch how you feel.... now...

> >>

> >> and in 3, 4 and then 5 days.... that Saturn/Moon

> >> conjunction...

> >>

> >> Then, compare these feelings with the feelings

> that

> >> come next when the Moon

> >> moves past Saturn and into the next sign...

> >>

> >> That will be quite a shift this month/year,

> >> especially because the Moon

> >> feels soooo happy in Cancer.

> >>

> >> Then, for the next 2 1/2 days the Moon will be in

> >> Cancer, it's Own

> >> Sign,....but then,

> >> the Moon will move into Leo, which is farther and

> >> farther away from

> >> Saturn,....but....

> >>

> >> the Moon will be in a sign, where it's supposed

> to

> >> fall under the 3rd house

> >> 'aspect' of Saturn...

> >>

> >> See, if you/all, can feel that same Saturn

> feeling

> >> that happened when

> >> Saturn&Moon were conjunct, see if you don't feel

> >> that same flavor.

> >>

> >> Then, when the Moon, continues around the sky,

> next

> >> it will move into

> >> Sagittarius, which is the Sign, completely

> opposite

> >> to Saturn, in Gemini,

> >> and then, when Moon moves into Pisces, Saturn's

> 10th

> >> House aspect is

> >> supposed to kick in.

> >>

> >> Experience shows which qualities of Jyotish are

> more

> >> strong and give very

> >> practical understanding that will allow us to

> >> understand the same kind of

> >> 'aspects' and 'conjunctions', or placements as

> you

> >> say; that are in our

> >> charts.

> >>

> >> Hope this helps....

> >>

> >> Sincerely,

> >>

> >>

> >> Mark Kincaid

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ps.... instead of asking people to guess about

> your

> >> chart, why don't you

> >> share with people, your experience which are

> >> stronger.

> >>

> >> For example, in my chart, I have Moon & Saturn

> >> together in the 12th house,

> >> only 1 house away from my Sun in the 11th.

> >>

> >> Well, believe me, I can say with complete

> >> reliability, that the consequence

> >> of this 'configuration' has been very striking to

> >> me.

> >>

> >> Plenty of feelings of isolation, loneliness,

> >> sadness, even depression

> >> growing up.

> >>

> >> And as I learned my chart I could 'feel' Saturn's

> >> aspects into my 3rd house,

> >> and 6th house.... especially.

> >>

> >> Not only was I shy, due to the Moon being in the

> >> 12th, but, my 2nd house of

> >> speech was very much effected too, and I was

> >> extremely shy in school, had a

> >> very difficult time getting up and speaking in

> >> class, etc.

> >>

> >> But, I also have Jupiter in my 6th in Pisces, in

> my

> >> 6th and at the very same

> >> time I had all these, problems of Moon/Saturn in

> the

> >> 12th,.... I found some

> >> very good qualities due to Jupiter.

> >>

> >> First of all, I had pretty good health. Secondly

> I

> >> noticed that Saturn's

> >> normal negative aspect upon the Sign opposite to

> >> itself, was probably,

> >> improved due to Jupiter's simultaneous aspect

> back,

> >> upon Saturn and the

> >> Moon.

> >>

> >> I could also 'feel' all the good qualities of

> >> Jupiter's supposed influence

> >> upon the Sign opposite it!

> >>

> >> I also had many of the predictatively 'good'

> >> qualities of Jupiter upon the

> >> Moon, which was a clear example of the 7th House

> >> 'aspect'.

> >>

> >> Then, there are the aspects of Jupiter.

> Jupiter's

> >> supposed to influence

> >> not only the Sign where it is, but also 5 Houses

> >> away in addition to the

> >> classic 7th house aspect.

> >>

> >> And I could really feel that too. Jupiter in the

> >> 6th, then, casts it's 5th

> >> house aspect into the 10th house, where I have

> >> Cancer.

> >>

> >> And from as long as I can remember I 'knew' that

> I

> >> wanted to be a teacher.

> >>

> >> First of all, I loved teachers growing up, I

> loved

> >> watching them, and

> >> admired them greatly.

> >>

> >> These qualities are good examples of Jupiter's

> 5th

> >> house aspect.

> >>

> >> And finally, when I try and look and find,

> Jupiter's

> >> 9th house aspect, I

> >> find that Jupiter's supposed to be aspecting my

> 2nd

> >> house.

> >>

> >> So, not only was I shy due to Saturn's aspect

> from

> >> the 12th, but, I felt

> >> also another influence which later I realized was

> >> probably Jupiter's which

> >> wanted to be able to speak and express myself.

> >>

> >> Eventually, as I learned how to diminish or

> >> transform Saturn's negative

> >> 'glances' into more positive one's, I began to

> feel

> >> more comfortable

> >> speaking and eventually became quite comfortable

> in

> >> front of a crowd, or

> >> even lecturing.

> >>

> >> So, I'm sure we all, will enjoy hearing about how

> >> you've come to understand

> >> and experience your chart, too. I'd love to hear

> >> your own private

> >> experiences as to the effects of the Planets 'in'

> >> different houses/signs,

> >> and their simultaneous effects upon, opposite

> signs

> >> and houses.

> >>

> >>

> >> Sincerely,

> >>

> >>

> >> Mark Kincaid

> >>

> >>

> >> founder Nature's Astrology....

> >> m.kincaid

> >> 641 472-0000

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Shripal <d_shripal

> >> AyurvedJyotishYoga

> >> Tue, 18 Jan 2005 21:30:57 -0800 (PST)

> >> navlakshya

> >> [AyurvedJyotishYoga] Re: Aspect v/s

> >> Placement

> >>

> >>

> >> Hi Jyotish Volunteer and ALL,

> >>

> >> Let's take this birth data of mine.

> >> Name:shripal

> >> Place:Rajkot,Gujarat

> >> Time:21:00

> >> date:16th March 1980

> >>

> >> 1)In my chart Mars + Saturn + Jupiter + Rahu all

> >> retrogatin and placed in 11th house.All this

> planets

> >> are aspecting or influencing each other.Correct.

> >>

> >> 2)In 5th house Mercury and Ketu are together.

> >>

> >> 3)However Venus is in 7th house.

> >>

> >> 4)Know planets aspecting first house are Saturn

> >> 100%,Venus 100% + venus is a dispositor of that

> >> house

> >> too and placed with Venus in enemy house.

> >>

> >> 5)Venus a first house lord is in trine with Mars

> +

> >> saturn + rahu + jupiter,so all this planets

> aspect

> >> to

> >> venus is 50% mutually.

> >>

> >> 5)Mercury + ketu sextile with this Venus,so

> aspect

> >> mutually is 25%.

> >>

> >> So you tell me about my personality and

> >> thoughts,regarding my looks and approach towards

> >> life.Which planet will be most influential with

> >> rescpect,

> >>

> >> 1)1st house that is me,my looks nd qualities that

> i

> >> have and i will achieve.

> >> 2)4th house that is my mother or staying place

> >> 3)7th house that is my wife or partners

> >> 4)5th house that is my education,Romance and

> >> Mantra,Tantra etc.

> >> 5)9th house my spiritual inclination.

> >> 6)11th house my friends,relationship with them

> anf

> >> gains.

> >>

> >> You give me predictions for each and every of my

> >> above

> >> points and I will let you know how much truth

> about

> >> it.

> >>

> >> So we can come to conclusion what all houses

> aspect

> >> is

> >> more effective and where palcement is effective.

> >>

> >> Which one is more stronger aspect or Placement.

> >>

> >> --- Jyotish Volunteers <primusjyotishi

> >> wrote:

> >>

> >>>

> >>> Not clear why you called placement as a one time

> >>> influence while

> >>> aspect is a longerlasting one. Please elaborate

> a

> >>> bit more.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> navlakshya, Shripal

> >>> <d_shripal> wrote:

> >>>> Guruji,

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> That theory will not work here.aspect is not

> >>>> influencing anybody.So your example I will say

> >>> there

> >>>> is no aspect at all.

> >>>>

> >>>> Aspect mean you can do something,influencing

> >>>> someone.when you are seeing means just seeing.

> >>>> Planets just don't see,they influence.In fact a

> >>> very

> >>>> very great influence.As good as seating and

> >> seeing

> >>> is

> >>>> same for them.

> >>>>

> >>>> But let me try to twist your Example,If that

> >>> killer

> >>>> seating find he is a son of his Boss or His

> >> father

> >>> is

> >>>> bigger person.Than you tell me Aspect of his

> >>> father

> >>>> not even in his presence,what will be

> >>> outcome.Aspect

> >>>> or Placement.So i guess who is influencing whom

> >>> rather

> >>>> than just seating.

> >>>>

> >>>> And now if you are saying,even he know's still

> >> he

> >>> want

> >>>> to kill that person seating beside him,than

> >> ready

> >>> for

> >>>> a outcome of aspect that is influencing that

> >> guy.

> >>>>

> >>>> That's what I said it in first posting.Strong

> >>>> Placement's of planets is like a one time

> >>> promotion or

> >>>> act of that movement instantly.Aspect is like

> >>> constant

> >>>> movement increasing manner or detoriating

> >>>> movement.Placement is like switch on and

> >> Off.while

> >>>> aspect is like Volume button.It influences your

> >>> daily

> >>>> life.

> >>>>

> >>>> --- "V.Partha sarathy" <partvinu5> wrote:

> >>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Dear Shripal

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Please tell me the outcome of the following

> >>>>>

> >>>>> You are with a killer, a bad man in the same

> >>> bus, in

> >>>>> the same seat

> >>>>> you are in a bus, and killer is in another

> >> bus,

> >>> he

> >>>>> is looking at you.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> WHich makes you more comfortable?

> >>>>> best wishes

> >>>>> partha

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> navlakshya, Shripal

> >>>>> <d_shripal> wrote:

> >>>>>> Hi sureshji,

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> your Explantion and Prediction is

> >> wonderful.I

> >>>>> myself

> >>>>>> found aspect are more powerful than

> >>>>> Placements.Even

> >>>>>> when I have checked Let say Libra rising and

> >>>>> Saturn in

> >>>>>> Lagna.so this person should possess all the

> >>>>> qualities

> >>>>>> of Exaltes saturn,But in fact it is not

> >> there

> >>> at

> >>>>>> all.Considering all factors.Mars in 6th

> >> house

> >>> and

> >>>>>> aspecting this saturn.so this person is more

> >>> like

> >>>>>> Martian,rather than saturn like.Even

> >> placement

> >>> for

> >>>>>> Mars is also weak,still aspect is working

> >> very

> >>>>> well

> >>>>>> than Placement of Saturn.As mars is enemy to

> >>>>>> saturn,still it destroy what ever saturn's

> >>> result

> >>>>> and

> >>>>>> imbibe his resuls in that individual.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> I concluded that Aspect should be given a

> >>> higher

> >>>>>> priority.

> >>>>>> --- sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag> wrote:

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> Namasthe

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> Yes Aspect of any planet is more powerful

> >>> than

> >>>>> its

> >>>>>>> association. It is

> >>>>>>> said that if two malefics are in

> >> association

> >>> it

> >>>>>>> brings decieses and if

> >>>>>>> a third aspects it brings death. This

> >> could

> >>> mean

> >>>>> two

> >>>>>>> things aspect by

> >>>>>>> a (malefic) planet is more potent than the

> >>>>>>> association of two

> >>>>>>> (malefics). Agin in another text

> >>>>>>> "Bhanuna Vasrija drishte dakshange arura

> >>>>> asrigbhava"

> >>>>>>> Saturn if

> >>>>>>> aspected by sun or mars will produce

> >>> eruptions

> >>>>> and

> >>>>>>> boils on the right

> >>>>>>> side of the body due to impure blood.

> >> (Cause

> >>> of

> >>>>>>> death) this sloka

> >>>>>>> further explains: "Guruna swayathupathe

> >>>>> dakshinange

> >>>>>>> cha vedana".

> >>>>>>> Jupiter produces swelling of the feets of

> >>> pain

> >>>>> in

> >>>>>>> the body.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> There are many such examples which shows

> >> the

> >>>>> power

> >>>>>>> of aspects of planets.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> In the example given by you Saturn in the

> >>> 8th

> >>>>> house

> >>>>>>> may confer long

> >>>>>>> life depending on the stregth of Saturn in

> >>> amsa

> >>>>> and

> >>>>>>> sun . but one

> >>>>>>> cannot rule out the physical ailments that

> >>> it

> >>>>>>> signifies. Please note

> >>>>>>> that Saturn Lagnidhipathy is aspecting the

> >>> Karma

> >>>>>>> Sthana as well as

> >>>>>>> dhanasthana and is placed in the atma

> >> karaka

> >>> /

> >>>>> pitur

> >>>>>>> karaka Sun. Being

> >>>>>>> an enemy, he may face many problems with

> >> his

> >>>>>>> parents. Highly egoistic

> >>>>>>> and in always conflict with oneself. He

> >>> creates

> >>>>>>> wealth by his own

> >>>>>>> efforts. in fact jupiter and mars help

> >>> saturn in

> >>>>>>> this process of

> >>>>>>> creating wealth. (Saturn and mars in

> >> mutual

> >>>>> aspect -

> >>>>>>> Lagnadhipathy and

> >>>>>>> labhadhipathy) He may create wealth

> >> through

> >>>>> property

> >>>>>>> deals and

> >>>>>>> speculations (High risk) due to the

> >> position

> >>> of

> >>>>> mars

> >>>>>>> in taurus and

> >>>>>>> jupiter in mesh(Mars as adhipathy).

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> But he may expect some downfall (sudden

> >> and

> >>>>>>> unexpected) as the Saturn

> >>>>>>> is the satru rasi and Jupiter aspecting is

> >>> also

> >>>>> 12th

> >>>>>>> rasi ord

> >>>>>>> (Vyayasthanadhipathy).

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> This person may not happy in life in spite

> >>> of

> >>>>> being

> >>>>>>> a successfull

> >>>>>>> business man. (Sun - Atma Karaka being a

> >>> Sathru

> >>>>> of

> >>>>>>> Saturn -

> >>>>>>> Lagnadhipathy and Saturn being in leo

> >>> aspecting

> >>>>> the

> >>>>>>> Atma Karaka

> >>>>>>> griha's Neecha Rasi)

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> Thank you putting such queries. give your

> >>>>> comments.

> >>>>>>> Have no doubt that aspect is more potent

> >>> than

> >>>>> yoga

> >>>>>>> expecially that of

> >>>>>>> saturn . Remember Ravana had his downfall

> >>> when

> >>>>>>> saturn in transit

> >>>>>>> reached his seventh house. I have seen

> >> many

> >>>>> persons

> >>>>>>> who were sitting

> >>>>>>> at the pinacles of their carrer/life fall

> >> to

> >>>>> nothing

> >>>>>>> when saturn

> >>>>>>> traverse throuth 4th, 7th and 11th house

> >>> either

> >>>>> from

> >>>>>>> ascendant or moon

> >>>>>>> sign.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> May Lord Bless You.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> Suresh Bbu.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> vedic astrology,

> >>> Shripal

> >>>>>>> <d_shripal> wrote:

> >>>>>>>> Hello All,

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Planetary aspect should be given more

> >>>>> important or

> >>>>>>>> palcement,which one would be powerful.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Let say Saturn is placed in 8th house in

> >>>>> Leo.so

> >>>>>>> for

> >>>>>>>> Capricon Ascendant it is benefic.Now

> >>> Jupiter

> >>>>>>> placed in

> >>>>>>>> 4th House aspecting Saturn.So here

> >> aspect

> >>> is

> >>>>> Trine

> >>>>>>>> that is 50% b/w planets and 100% by

> >>> Jupiter.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> But being in Leo,it is in enemies house

> >>> and

> >>>>> 50%

> >>>>>>> aspect

> >>>>>>>> to jupiter,that is benefic,so Saturn

> >> thrid

> >>>>> aspect

> >>>>>>> to

> >>>>>>>> 10th house that is his own exalted sign

> >>> will

> >>>>> give

> >>>>>>>> benefic result or malefic result,by how

> >>> much.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Now climax comes,If Mars is in Taurus

> >> ans

> >>>>> ,Mars is

> >>>>>>>> also aspecting this Saturn 100% and

> >>> vice-versa

> >>>>> is

> >>>>>>> also

> >>>>>>>> true.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> So it will try to make Saturn act

> >>>>> malefically.so

> >>>>>>> what

> >>>>>>>> will be a Saturn's response.Good or

> >>> TooBad.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> =====

> >>>>>>>> "Love is friendship set to music."

> >>>>>>>> "Love conquers all."

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>

>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Tired of spam? Mail has the best

> >>> spam

> >>>>>>>> protection around

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> =====

> >>>>>>>> "Love is friendship set to music."

> >>>>>>>> "Love conquers all."

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Mail - Find what you need with

> >> new

> >>>>> enhanced

> >>>>>>> search.

> >>>>>>>> http://info.mail./mail_250

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> =====

> >>>>>> "Love is friendship set to music."

> >>>>>> "Love conquers all."

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Mail - You care about security. So do

> >>> we.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> =====

> >>>> "Love is friendship set to music."

> >>>> "Love conquers all."

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>

>

> >>>>

> >>>> Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam

> >>> protection around

> >>>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

> >>

> >> =====

> >> "Love is friendship set to music."

> >> "Love conquers all."

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Mail - Find what you need with new

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> >> search.

> >> http://info.mail./mail_250

> >>

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> >> document.write('');

> >>

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> >>

> >> Links

> >>

> >> AyurvedJyotishYoga/

> >>

> >>

> >> AyurvedJyotishYoga

> >>

> >

>

<AyurvedJyotishYoga?subject=Un>

> >>

> >> Your use of is subject to the

>

> >> Terms of Service

> >> <> .

> >>

> >>

> >>

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> >

> > =====

> > "Love is friendship set to music."

> > "Love conquers all."

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Mail - You care about security. So do we.

> >

>

>

 

 

=====

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"Love conquers all."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hello Mark,

Iam not yet sure the debate going on aspects takes in to account:

 

only Parashara aspects

jaimini conveys different kinds of aspects

Is it not exchage/parivartana of planets need mention.ForEx:Moon(Lord of

cancer exchanges with makara).saturn in cancer

Planets in 2H aspecting Planets in 8H

If Planets in Cancer have association between benific and malefic planets

together placed.

 

it appears that bhava of the house in which the planets (have been placed and

aspecting)has not been given due credence in the discusiion.Iam sure these are

important considerations canot be overlooked.

 

krishnan

 

 

 

Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid wrote:

Dear Shripal:

 

Maybe we should use the word, 'influence' when more then 1 planet are in the

same sign/house, and are 'influecing' each other.

 

That makes it easier, for me, to then use the word, 'aspect' for what

individual planets, 'do' in reference to places in the chart, outside of the

house they're in....

 

Also, maybe we should focus on the full aspects first, the 50% aspect or 75%

aspect, I believe, is too complicated at this stage.

 

But, understanding that every planet influences, like a Sun, anything else,

within the 30"/ degrees.... of the Sign that it's in.

 

So, my Moon does get 'influenced' by the Saturn, that's going on within the

same sign, Virgo, in my 12th house.

 

Jyotish then, describes the rules for that kind of 'conjunction'.

 

Which planet is in the higher degrees, generally, 'wins', in dominance,....

but as in my case, because my Moon's running about the 26th degree of Virgo,

and my Saturn about the 10th degree of Virgo.... I do notice .... that 'it'

feels better,...

then, say any month when the Moon's getting closer and closer to say,

Saturn.... the 'negative' influence seems strongest.... coming right up to

Sani, and then quickly begins to diminish, even the moment, it starts to

move to the other side, or beyond the degrees, of Saturn.

 

These 'influences' then, get more complicated the more planets that are all

in a house.

 

When 'one' talks to more and more people who also have 3, 4, or even 5

planets within the same sign, you sense,....that increasing drama....

 

I have one friend with Sun, Moon, Saturn, Venus and Mercury, all in Cancer

in her 9th house...

 

She's both the sweetest lady but also a very complicated one....

 

First of, Jyotish has these rules, about which Planets like being in

Cancer....

 

Moon for example, loves being in Cancer.

 

Saturn, on the other hand, like the transit, we recently started in, ...

often does not....

 

Then, you add the complication of the Sun's presence, meaning she's born on

top of a New Moon.

 

So, the Moon's good quality, but completely small.

 

Venus likes being in Cancer, Sun's okay, there,...

and Mercury, or intellectualizing, is a little 'too mushy' in Cancer's

energy....

 

I notice she's a lot like these rules of the different Planets in Cancer....

 

Oh, yes, I forgot to mention that Saturn is creating quite a bit of

'mischief' there.

 

Most planets do not fare well with Saturn's closer 'influence', even when

Sani's more positive, even in it's Own Sign, or Exalted,....it still acts

like Saturn....

 

I've been working with here, on her chart for a couple of years now, and one

of the first break throughs she's been going through is understanding that

all of her 'Cancerish' nourishing, which she loves to do so much.....is in

fact, a little bit out of balance...

 

In other words, she has this habit of liking to give to others, but probably

because of Saturn's place in Cancer, she doesn't turn that same habit, onto

herself...

 

So, Saturn acts mostly malefically.

 

We've then, been working most on that.

 

And now, she's beginning to create more 'balance' with her Saturn.

 

As she does that, then, the dynamics of the mutual, 'influences' of all her

Planets, is starting to subside, more....

 

At any time, when ever we talk about the 'aspecting' going on on all those

planets in the 9th house, ..... we do talk sometimes, about the fact, that

Saturn's 3rd house aspect upon her 11th house, and the important energy of

acquiring wealth, or financial support, is strongly hindered, especially

when Saturn's out of balance.

 

It's a good inticement, telling her she'll actually attract more money, the

more in-balance, she gets with Saturn!

 

I also like Jyotish's point that in including 'Aspects', ..... when 2 or

more planets are within the same house/sign, when considering Aspects, it's

supposed to be true, that the Planets carry with their aspect,....the

vibration or effect of being in such close proximity with other Planets.

 

This means that 2 negatives, together, like say Mars & Saturn, because their

patterns of aspecting are different,....

 

Saturn's 3, 7 & 10 houses away while Mars is 4, 7 & 8.

 

This means that when considering Saturn's 3rd house aspect, one needs to

take into account, Saturn then, 'carrying' with it, Mars influence into that

3rd house aspect....

 

And conversely, when considering Mars' 4th house aspect, then, one needs to

consider, Mars' carrying with 'it', Saturn's influence into that same, 4th

house....

 

So, you can see how it's getting complicated.

 

But, I find it important to understand each layer, soooo well, that when you

start to consider, these over-lapping influences, they make sense, and don't

confuse....

 

See below:

 

 

 

 

 

Shripal <d_shripal

Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:28:36 -0800 (PST)

Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid

[vedic astrology] Re: 2-Shipal, & all, Aspect v/s Placement, > Mark

Kincaid

 

 

Hi Mark,

 

If planets are together in a same sign,Than isn't that

means they are aspecting each other and becuase of

there mutual relationship that they develop will

influence a place where they are placed plus where

each of them is aspecting.

 

yes, you're right.

 

Again while aspecting they

might come in aspect with other forces.So total

prediction will change.Along with that there is

transit and Dasa too involved.

 

And this is why I said, we might want to get really familiar with the

different 'aspects' of conjunction and planets in different signs, and

how they aspect first, before we then, venture into how, these influences,

will be manifesting within different dasas and transits.

 

Simple rule of thumb, of course, is that the negative or malefic

configurations in our charts,

will 'probably' manifest negatively in both those 'malefic' dasas and

transits.

 

But, I'm so 'in, to' the possiblitiy of transforming our malefics into

benefics, that I don't

focus so much on the staticness of only seeing 'negatives' in, malefics

effects.

 

I think, now, today, that it's one of the most important areas, in Jyotish,

to figure out literally,

how any malefic can and is really supposed to be improved!

 

Take my own Moon &/or Saturn in my 12th house....

 

All of my life, both these Planets were very associated with all the

negative associations one might understand; to refer to the Moon &

Saturn.../ in the 12th house.

 

But, wanting so much to feel better, happier, and less upset, lonely or

isolated, I was very drawn to the progressive, up-lifting qualities, of

things like meditation....

 

And with each month, that I meditated, for example, the negatives of

Moon/Saturn there, started becoming less and less.

 

Then, when I started studying Jyotish and especially watching the transits,

I again, became aware of how literally 2 weeks of each month, almost the

entire Waning Moon period, 'felt rough' for me...

 

But, I also, quickly found that as I learned that this period was like the

inward, restful, period of meditation,.... and I allowed myself to take it

more easy,....during this time of the month....

 

my students said it was like I had Cosmic, pms.... hehhee

 

anyway, then, quickly I noticed that even this very strongly unenjoyable and

even 'negative' time of the month, started becoming more positive.

 

Now, after a few years at this, I'm happy to report that all the earler,

negative feelings of this transit, have been transformed, into a much more

enjoyable,....though distinctly, 'inward' quality of that Waningness.....

 

Maybe we need to just regularly talk about transformations of the Planets,

at the same time as we talk about the 'Understanding',....of the Jyotish.

 

 

 

But in all this as I

said when to mutual force combine we get totally a new

dish for a lunch.So it can be good in taste or OK or

bad.But when two forces combine through Aspect,I

believe especially when two forces combine in aspect,

A person's personality,attitude towards life,current

event results along with transit and Dasa, his

thinking ability all changes because of relationship

develop through aspect.

 

Yes, you're right.

 

If I am wrong please clarify,Aspect is always 100%

resultant good or bad,

 

I don't think 'it's right' to say, 'aspect' is always 100%.

 

There are those 100% aspects, and then, Jyotish says one

can consider 80% or 50% influences, of the aspects too.

 

Personally, I haven't found this level of detail as important,

because most people haven't even come to understand the significance

of even their complete 100% aspects.

 

while placement is not,Because I

read in some book,If planet is weakly placed than id

doesn't give whole results,Good or Bad,no results at

all.

 

But if this weakly placed planets aspected by let say

another weakly placed planet,may be trine(50%) or

opposite(100%) aspect,So aspect can be never weak,

 

I think we can say, an aspect of a malefic planet or malefic planets in

conjunction

can be 'negative'....and therefore debilitating, or produce 'weakness'....

 

it's

like these bodies give no results for placement being

weaker.But in aspect becuase palcement is weak,that

doesn't mean aspect is weak,Aspect works normally at

100% result,so even no result given planet aspect each

other,they will give bad result,but they definately

give result,unlike placement.

 

Oh, I think I see what you're saying.

 

Yes, I'd agree, the aspecting seems to be consistent at different 'degrees'

of influence.

 

But, I have found that the different 'aspects' that especially, Mars,

Saturn, Jupiter & Rahu/Ketu,

are supposed to have, do seem different.

 

For example, the 3rd house aspect of Saturn, doesn't seem quite as strong as

the 7th house aspect. Also, the 10th house, doesn't seem as strong as the

3rd house aspect.

 

Though I haven't read much about these 'differences'....

 

 

 

I haven't put it in proper way ,What I want to say.Let

me come with some example.But I want from

members,Conjuct palnet aspect each other isn't it?

 

Again, yes, let's say conjunct planets do 'influence' each other,...

though let's reserve the word, 'aspect' for their influences.... outside of

the 30 degrees,

of the Sign, and House, in which they're co-habitating!

hehhee

 

 

take care,

 

 

Mark Kincaid

 

 

 

 

founder....Nature's Astrology...."best of West & East"....

/

m.kincaid

641 472-0000

 

 

ps.... went to bed last night with the Moon in Taurus..... and awoke this

am,.... about 2:45am...

with a lot of bliss and mmmmmmmm, and then wondered,....if Moon might be

getting close to that 5th house aspect of Jupiter, predicted....

 

and lo, and behold, Moon was at the 23rd degree of Taurus, while Jupiter's

running now, about the 24th degree of Virgo....

 

So, from Virgo, counting Virgo as 1,... Jupiter's most strongly influencing

the same degrees, in which it's running, and in this case,...getting near

that 24th degree, even in Taurus, is quite amazingly..... wonderful!

 

Nice to find a positive 'aspect' for a change! hehehe

 

I think it's so fabulous to have this opportunity by looking at our

experiences, and even writing them, down.... we can see over the next few

weeks,.... as the Moon gets closer again to where Jupiter in....

 

whether,....Jupiter's influence 9 houses away, is stronger or the same as

when Moon returns to Virgo, where it will again be 'conjunct' with Jupiter.

 

I do find one other thing, and that is....depending upon how big or small

the Moon, is.... the influence....from Jupiter, in this case, or other

planets.... does seem to get influenced... by the inherent 'strength' of the

Moon, too....

 

For example, the Moon's now Waxing,....so it seems brighter...stronger....

and it'll be interesting to see, over these next few weeks, whether,....the

next Moon/Jupiter conjunction is effected by the fact, that the Moon will be

Waning, by then....

 

mmmmmmm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid wrote:

 

> Dear Shripal:

>

> See below:

>

>

>

> > Shripal <d_shripal

> > Wed, 19 Jan 2005 21:54:45 -0800 (PST)

> > Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid

> > 2-Shipal, Ramakrishna, & all, RE: Aspect

> v/s Placement, > Mark

> > Kincaid

> >

> > Hi Mark and All.

> >

> > thanks Mark,

> >

> > Yes,exactly when transit moves over your natal

> > placement,so what is working,isn't it aspect that

> is

> > working.

>

> I find there are two things here.

>

> #1, there's the effect when say the Moon moves into

> the next Sign,

> say where Saturn is, 'in the sky',....

>

> In 2 days for example Moon moves into Gemini, where

> Saturn is.

>

> #2, then, there's the effect of say the Moon moving

> into the same house,

> where our Natal Saturn is, 'in our charts'....

>

> This can be 'felt' in the same way, though these two

> different ways....

>

> represent the Transits, vs. the effect of the

> transits, upon our individual

> charts....!

>

> both of which I believe are important....

>

> personally I find the effects of the Transits, 'out

> there', more intense,

> then say,

> when Moon moves into Virgo, each month, where my

> natal Moon is....

>

> I'm so used to that, that it's effects don't seem

> soooo intense....

> but when the Moon moves into the space where the

> transiting Saturn 'is',

> that seems

> much more strong...

>

> Even if you have got exalted saturn in your

> > chart,when transit moon goes over it ,you will

> feel

> > lonliness,allof etc.When Mars hover your saturn,

> you

> > are very uncomfortalbe with your situation's in

> your

> > life,either you feel like destroying everything

> around

> > you or just destroy yourself.

>

> See below:Yes, yes,...this is exactly what I love

> about watching the

> transits,...

> after even 12 months, you'll be so much more clear

> about what 'effects' come

> to one,

> through the transits, ....that...

> you'll be much more prepared.... to

> understand....'where' ....'these'

> effects are coming..

>

> Then, in the future, we'll be more wise, and not

> 'blame' so much 'others'

> because of something that's either coming to us from

> the outer stars....

> or coming to us ....from our....inner stars.....

>

> >

> > So How did we lost a qualities of Placement.How

> come

> > placement looses its theme and get more influenced

> by

> > aspect.

>

> I've heard it described both ways....by different

> astrologers....

>

> I think it happens, when the general, 'experience'

> of Astrology gets lost...

>

> Even though modern day, 'Astrologers' may be very

> good at understanding

> intellectually,

> Astrology,....still it's not the same,....as having

> learned to feel the

> Stars....

>

> I think experience in Consciousness, in meditation,

> has helped me

> emmensely,....

> because I'm more awake, in the soul, in the silence

> of life....

>

> and the Stars, exist.... predominantly in

> silence....

>

> In fact, at some point when I was 'watching' the

> transits, it occured to me,

> ....

> I hadn't heard anyone describe how,.... no matter

> 'what' transits are going

> on....

>

> whether it's a clear day, and everything's feeling

> smooth,....

> or a very rough day, and stormy....etc....

>

> what I noticed, was .... within both

> days,....there's this incredible

> experience of eternal....

> silence....

>

> and 'that'....is the core, the essence of life....

>

> In fact,....the most important thing....

>

> because it's in going to 'that',....accessing

> 'that', that any improvement,

> transformation,...

> can really be accomplished..... on the outer.....

>

>

>

> Act as a modifier.Transit is a best way to

> > describe Aspect being more powerful than just

> > placement.

>

> personally, my experience is the opposite....

>

> I experience, when 2 planets are in the same house

> as being stronger,....

> but that's not to say your experience couldn't be

> the opposite...

>

> I find for example, that a lot of people experience

> the dasas, stronger,

> then the transits,.....

> and that goes along with the classic Jyotish

> descriptions....

>

> but for me, I've learned that 'I', experience the

> transits, more

> strongly....

>

> Also, ....Jyotish says that the 'transits' should be

> looked at through the

> Moon chart....

> but I find the Rasi chart, ....looking at the

> transits, via. one's rising

> sign, ....

> is more accurate for me,....and for many others....

>

> We all need to learn to experience....the stars....

>

> I am talking about when to mutual force

> > combine,it will always be powerful than just being

> > alone.It can act as a destroyer and even rebuilder

> of

> > your evnts in life.Life is not stagnant or

> constant

> > like Placement.But rather everyday changing and

> who is

> > influencing that,Transit and How through

> aspect,isn't

> > it?.If i am wrong correct me.

> >

> Nice talking with you...

>

>

> Mark Kincaid

>

>

>

> founder....Nature's Astrology....

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > --- Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid wrote:

> >

> >> Hi Ramakrishna ,

> >>

> >> No sirji,What you said I have already talked

> about

> >> that previous.Same thing aspect is as good as

> >> placement means Venus when aspect from pisces

> gives

> >> same results

> >> as jupiter placed in pisces.that means full

> >> effect,not

> >> a quality wise,quantity wise effect will be

> maximum.

> >>

> >> When planet is aspecting some house, without any

> >> planets in it,means effect will be equvalent to

> >> placement.Aspect and Placement we are talking

> about

> >> is

> >> quantity wise and not qualitywise,That will

> depend

> >> upon mutual relationship,sign in whci placed

> etc.OK.

> >>

> >> --- Ramakrishna <ramki

> wrote:

> >>

> >>

> >> Dear Shipal & All:

> >>

> >> This is a fascinating aspect of Jyotish, ahhh, no

> >> pun intended, heheeheh.

> >>

> >> But, another really good way to tell whether

> >> 'conjunction', or when a planet

> >> is in a house,

> >> or opposite another house, or even in it's

> >> aspectings,.... is to look at

> >> these through the eyes,

> >> of the daily, weekly, monthly and yearly

> >> transits....

> >>

> >> Watch the Moon for example.

> >>

> >> When the Moon moves through the sky and moves

> >> through our charts, especially

> >> when you can learn to 'feel' it, you can start to

> >> realize...the real truths

> >> of Jyotish.

> >>

> >> For example, when the Moon is getting bigger,

> like

> >> now, and then when it

> >> moves through the different signs, and especially

> >> moves into similar houses

> >> with other planets.... you can really feel those!

> >>

> >> Take the up-coming Moon & Saturn conjunction

> >> starting in about 2 days....

> >>

> >> Right now the Moon's in Taurus, and only at the

> 3rd

> >> degree, so still a lot

> >> of Exaltedness, left....

> >>

> >> But in a 'few' days, let's say 2 1/2, the Moon

> will

> >> move into Gemini, where

> >> it will come within 30 degrees of any planets in

> >> Gemini.

> >>

> >> Right now, Saturn has Retrograded back into

> Gemini,

> >> so soon, the Moon &

> >> Saturn will be conjunct.

> >>

> >> So, everyone watch how you feel.... now...

> >>

> >> and in 3, 4 and then 5 days.... that Saturn/Moon

> >> conjunction...

> >>

> >> Then, compare these feelings with the feelings

> that

> >> come next when the Moon

> >> moves past Saturn and into the next sign...

> >>

> >> That will be quite a shift this month/year,

> >> especially because the Moon

> >> feels soooo happy in Cancer.

> >>

> >> Then, for the next 2 1/2 days the Moon will be in

> >> Cancer, it's Own

> >> Sign,....but then,

> >> the Moon will move into Leo, which is farther and

> >> farther away from

> >> Saturn,....but....

> >>

> >> the Moon will be in a sign, where it's supposed

> to

> >> fall under the 3rd house

> >> 'aspect' of Saturn...

> >>

> >> See, if you/all, can feel that same Saturn

> feeling

> >> that happened when

> >> Saturn&Moon were conjunct, see if you don't feel

> >> that same flavor.

> >>

> >> Then, when the Moon, continues around the sky,

> next

> >> it will move into

> >> Sagittarius, which is the Sign, completely

> opposite

> >> to Saturn, in Gemini,

> >> and then, when Moon moves into Pisces, Saturn's

> 10th

> >> House aspect is

> >> supposed to kick in.

> >>

> >> Experience shows which qualities of Jyotish are

> more

> >> strong and give very

> >> practical understanding that will allow us to

> >> understand the same kind of

> >> 'aspects' and 'conjunctions', or placements as

> you

> >> say; that are in our

> >> charts.

> >>

> >> Hope this helps....

> >>

> >> Sincerely,

> >>

> >>

> >> Mark Kincaid

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ps.... instead of asking people to guess about

> your

> >> chart, why don't you

> >> share with people, your experience which are

> >> stronger.

> >>

> >> For example, in my chart, I have Moon & Saturn

> >> together in the 12th house,

> >> only 1 house away from my Sun in the 11th.

> >>

> >> Well, believe me, I can say with complete

> >> reliability, that the consequence

> >> of this 'configuration' has been very striking to

> >> me.

> >>

> >> Plenty of feelings of isolation, loneliness,

> >> sadness, even depression

> >> growing up.

> >>

> >> And as I learned my chart I could 'feel' Saturn's

> >> aspects into my 3rd house,

> >> and 6th house.... especially.

> >>

> >> Not only was I shy, due to the Moon being in the

> >> 12th, but, my 2nd house of

> >> speech was very much effected too, and I was

> >> extremely shy in school, had a

> >> very difficult time getting up and speaking in

> >> class, etc.

> >>

> >> But, I also have Jupiter in my 6th in Pisces, in

> my

> >> 6th and at the very same

> >> time I had all these, problems of Moon/Saturn in

> the

> >> 12th,.... I found some

> >> very good qualities due to Jupiter.

> >>

> >> First of all, I had pretty good health. Secondly

> I

> >> noticed that Saturn's

> >> normal negative aspect upon the Sign opposite to

> >> itself, was probably,

> >> improved due to Jupiter's simultaneous aspect

> back,

> >> upon Saturn and the

> >> Moon.

> >>

> >> I could also 'feel' all the good qualities of

> >> Jupiter's supposed influence

> >> upon the Sign opposite it!

> >>

> >> I also had many of the predictatively 'good'

> >> qualities of Jupiter upon the

> >> Moon, which was a clear example of the 7th House

> >> 'aspect'.

> >>

> >> Then, there are the aspects of Jupiter.

> Jupiter's

> >> supposed to influence

> >> not only the Sign where it is, but also 5 Houses

> >> away in addition to the

> >> classic 7th house aspect.

> >>

> >> And I could really feel that too. Jupiter in the

> >> 6th, then, casts it's 5th

> >> house aspect into the 10th house, where I have

> >> Cancer.

> >>

> >> And from as long as I can remember I 'knew' that

> I

> >> wanted to be a teacher.

> >>

> >> First of all, I loved teachers growing up, I

> loved

> >> watching them, and

> >> admired them greatly.

> >>

> >> These qualities are good examples of Jupiter's

> 5th

> >> house aspect.

> >>

> >> And finally, when I try and look and find,

> Jupiter's

> >> 9th house aspect, I

> >> find that Jupiter's supposed to be aspecting my

> 2nd

> >> house.

> >>

> >> So, not only was I shy due to Saturn's aspect

> from

> >> the 12th, but, I felt

> >> also another influence which later I realized was

> >> probably Jupiter's which

> >> wanted to be able to speak and express myself.

> >>

> >> Eventually, as I learned how to diminish or

> >> transform Saturn's negative

> >> 'glances' into more positive one's, I began to

> feel

> >> more comfortable

> >> speaking and eventually became quite comfortable

> in

> >> front of a crowd, or

> >> even lecturing.

> >>

> >> So, I'm sure we all, will enjoy hearing about how

> >> you've come to understand

> >> and experience your chart, too. I'd love to hear

> >> your own private

> >> experiences as to the effects of the Planets 'in'

> >> different houses/signs,

> >> and their simultaneous effects upon, opposite

> signs

> >> and houses.

> >>

> >>

> >> Sincerely,

> >>

> >>

> >> Mark Kincaid

> >>

> >>

> >> founder Nature's Astrology....

> >> m.kincaid

> >> 641 472-0000

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Shripal <d_shripal

> >> AyurvedJyotishYoga

> >> Tue, 18 Jan 2005 21:30:57 -0800 (PST)

> >> navlakshya

> >> [AyurvedJyotishYoga] Re: Aspect v/s

> >> Placement

> >>

> >>

> >> Hi Jyotish Volunteer and ALL,

> >>

> >> Let's take this birth data of mine.

> >> Name:shripal

> >> Place:Rajkot,Gujarat

> >> Time:21:00

> >> date:16th March 1980

> >>

> >> 1)In my chart Mars + Saturn + Jupiter + Rahu all

> >> retrogatin and placed in 11th house.All this

> planets

> >> are aspecting or influencing each other.Correct.

> >>

> >> 2)In 5th house Mercury and Ketu are together.

> >>

> >> 3)However Venus is in 7th house.

> >>

> >> 4)Know planets aspecting first house are Saturn

> >> 100%,Venus 100% + venus is a dispositor of that

> >> house

> >> too and placed with Venus in enemy house.

> >>

> >> 5)Venus a first house lord is in trine with Mars

> +

> >> saturn + rahu + jupiter,so all this planets

> aspect

> >> to

> >> venus is 50% mutually.

> >>

> >> 5)Mercury + ketu sextile with this Venus,so

> aspect

> >> mutually is 25%.

> >>

> >> So you tell me about my personality and

> >> thoughts,regarding my looks and approach towards

> >> life.Which planet will be most influential with

> >> rescpect,

> >>

> >> 1)1st house that is me,my looks nd qualities that

> i

> >> have and i will achieve.

> >> 2)4th house that is my mother or staying place

> >> 3)7th house that is my wife or partners

> >> 4)5th house that is my education,Romance and

> >> Mantra,Tantra etc.

> >> 5)9th house my spiritual inclination.

> >> 6)11th house my friends,relationship with them

> anf

> >> gains.

> >>

> >> You give me predictions for each and every of my

> >> above

> >> points and I will let you know how much truth

> about

> >> it.

> >>

> >> So we can come to conclusion what all houses

> aspect

> >> is

> >> more effective and where palcement is effective.

> >>

> >> Which one is more stronger aspect or Placement.

> >>

> >> --- Jyotish Volunteers <primusjyotishi

> >> wrote:

> >>

> >>>

> >>> Not clear why you called placement as a one time

> >>> influence while

> >>> aspect is a longerlasting one. Please elaborate

> a

> >>> bit more.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> navlakshya, Shripal

> >>> <d_shripal> wrote:

> >>>> Guruji,

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> That theory will not work here.aspect is not

> >>>> influencing anybody.So your example I will say

> >>> there

> >>>> is no aspect at all.

> >>>>

> >>>> Aspect mean you can do something,influencing

> >>>> someone.when you are seeing means just seeing.

> >>>> Planets just don't see,they influence.In fact a

> >>> very

> >>>> very great influence.As good as seating and

> >> seeing

> >>> is

> >>>> same for them.

> >>>>

> >>>> But let me try to twist your Example,If that

> >>> killer

> >>>> seating find he is a son of his Boss or His

> >> father

> >>> is

> >>>> bigger person.Than you tell me Aspect of his

> >>> father

> >>>> not even in his presence,what will be

> >>> outcome.Aspect

> >>>> or Placement.So i guess who is influencing whom

> >>> rather

> >>>> than just seating.

> >>>>

> >>>> And now if you are saying,even he know's still

> >> he

> >>> want

> >>>> to kill that person seating beside him,than

> >> ready

> >>> for

> >>>> a outcome of aspect that is influencing that

> >> guy.

> >>>>

> >>>> That's what I said it in first posting.Strong

> >>>> Placement's of planets is like a one time

> >>> promotion or

> >>>> act of that movement instantly.Aspect is like

> >>> constant

> >>>> movement increasing manner or detoriating

> >>>> movement.Placement is like switch on and

> >> Off.while

> >>>> aspect is like Volume button.It influences your

> >>> daily

> >>>> life.

> >>>>

> >>>> --- "V.Partha sarathy" <partvinu5> wrote:

> >>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Dear Shripal

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Please tell me the outcome of the following

> >>>>>

> >>>>> You are with a killer, a bad man in the same

> >>> bus, in

> >>>>> the same seat

> >>>>> you are in a bus, and killer is in another

> >> bus,

> >>> he

> >>>>> is looking at you.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> WHich makes you more comfortable?

> >>>>> best wishes

> >>>>> partha

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> navlakshya, Shripal

> >>>>> <d_shripal> wrote:

> >>>>>> Hi sureshji,

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> your Explantion and Prediction is

> >> wonderful.I

> >>>>> myself

> >>>>>> found aspect are more powerful than

> >>>>> Placements.Even

> >>>>>> when I have checked Let say Libra rising and

> >>>>> Saturn in

> >>>>>> Lagna.so this person should possess all the

> >>>>> qualities

> >>>>>> of Exaltes saturn,But in fact it is not

> >> there

> >>> at

> >>>>>> all.Considering all factors.Mars in 6th

> >> house

> >>> and

> >>>>>> aspecting this saturn.so this person is more

> >>> like

> >>>>>> Martian,rather than saturn like.Even

> >> placement

> >>> for

> >>>>>> Mars is also weak,still aspect is working

> >> very

> >>>>> well

> >>>>>> than Placement of Saturn.As mars is enemy to

> >>>>>> saturn,still it destroy what ever saturn's

> >>> result

> >>>>> and

> >>>>>> imbibe his resuls in that individual.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> I concluded that Aspect should be given a

> >>> higher

> >>>>>> priority.

> >>>>>> --- sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag> wrote:

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> Namasthe

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> Yes Aspect of any planet is more powerful

> >>> than

> >>>>> its

> >>>>>>> association. It is

> >>>>>>> said that if two malefics are in

> >> association

> >>> it

> >>>>>>> brings decieses and if

> >>>>>>> a third aspects it brings death. This

> >> could

> >>> mean

> >>>>> two

> >>>>>>> things aspect by

> >>>>>>> a (malefic) planet is more potent than the

> >>>>>>> association of two

> >>>>>>> (malefics). Agin in another text

> >>>>>>> "Bhanuna Vasrija drishte dakshange arura

> >>>>> asrigbhava"

> >>>>>>> Saturn if

> >>>>>>> aspected by sun or mars will produce

> >>> eruptions

> >>>>> and

> >>>>>>> boils on the right

> >>>>>>> side of the body due to impure blood.

> >> (Cause

> >>> of

> >>>>>>> death) this sloka

> >>>>>>> further explains: "Guruna swayathupathe

> >>>>> dakshinange

> >>>>>>> cha vedana".

> >>>>>>> Jupiter produces swelling of the feets of

> >>> pain

> >>>>> in

> >>>>>>> the body.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> There are many such examples which shows

> >> the

> >>>>> power

> >>>>>>> of aspects of planets.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> In the example given by you Saturn in the

> >>> 8th

> >>>>> house

> >>>>>>> may confer long

> >>>>>>> life depending on the stregth of Saturn in

> >>> amsa

> >>>>> and

> >>>>>>> sun . but one

> >>>>>>> cannot rule out the physical ailments that

> >>> it

> >>>>>>> signifies. Please note

> >>>>>>> that Saturn Lagnidhipathy is aspecting the

> >>> Karma

> >>>>>>> Sthana as well as

> >>>>>>> dhanasthana and is placed in the atma

> >> karaka

> >>> /

> >>>>> pitur

> >>>>>>> karaka Sun. Being

> >>>>>>> an enemy, he may face many problems with

> >> his

> >>>>>>> parents. Highly egoistic

> >>>>>>> and in always conflict with oneself. He

> >>> creates

> >>>>>>> wealth by his own

> >>>>>>> efforts. in fact jupiter and mars help

> >>> saturn in

> >>>>>>> this process of

> >>>>>>> creating wealth. (Saturn and mars in

> >> mutual

> >>>>> aspect -

> >>>>>>> Lagnadhipathy and

> >>>>>>> labhadhipathy) He may create wealth

> >> through

> >>>>> property

> >>>>>>> deals and

> >>>>>>> speculations (High risk) due to the

> >> position

> >>> of

> >>>>> mars

> >>>>>>> in taurus and

> >>>>>>> jupiter in mesh(Mars as adhipathy).

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> But he may expect some downfall (sudden

> >> and

> >>>>>>> unexpected) as the Saturn

> >>>>>>> is the satru rasi and Jupiter aspecting is

> >>> also

> >>>>> 12th

> >>>>>>> rasi ord

> >>>>>>> (Vyayasthanadhipathy).

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> This person may not happy in life in spite

> >>> of

> >>>>> being

> >>>>>>> a successfull

> >>>>>>> business man. (Sun - Atma Karaka being a

> >>> Sathru

> >>>>> of

> >>>>>>> Saturn -

> >>>>>>> Lagnadhipathy and Saturn being in leo

> >>> aspecting

> >>>>> the

> >>>>>>> Atma Karaka

> >>>>>>> griha's Neecha Rasi)

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> Thank you putting such queries. give your

> >>>>> comments.

> >>>>>>> Have no doubt that aspect is more potent

> >>> than

> >>>>> yoga

> >>>>>>> expecially that of

> >>>>>>> saturn . Remember Ravana had his downfall

> >>> when

> >>>>>>> saturn in transit

> >>>>>>> reached his seventh house. I have seen

> >> many

> >>>>> persons

> >>>>>>> who were sitting

> >>>>>>> at the pinacles of their carrer/life fall

> >> to

> >>>>> nothing

> >>>>>>> when saturn

> >>>>>>> traverse throuth 4th, 7th and 11th house

> >>> either

> >>>>> from

> >>>>>>> ascendant or moon

> >>>>>>> sign.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> May Lord Bless You.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> Suresh Bbu.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> vedic astrology,

> >>> Shripal

> >>>>>>> <d_shripal> wrote:

> >>>>>>>> Hello All,

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Planetary aspect should be given more

> >>>>> important or

> >>>>>>>> palcement,which one would be powerful.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Let say Saturn is placed in 8th house in

> >>>>> Leo.so

> >>>>>>> for

> >>>>>>>> Capricon Ascendant it is benefic.Now

> >>> Jupiter

> >>>>>>> placed in

> >>>>>>>> 4th House aspecting Saturn.So here

> >> aspect

> >>> is

> >>>>> Trine

> >>>>>>>> that is 50% b/w planets and 100% by

> >>> Jupiter.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> But being in Leo,it is in enemies house

> >>> and

> >>>>> 50%

> >>>>>>> aspect

> >>>>>>>> to jupiter,that is benefic,so Saturn

> >> thrid

> >>>>> aspect

> >>>>>>> to

> >>>>>>>> 10th house that is his own exalted sign

> >>> will

> >>>>> give

> >>>>>>>> benefic result or malefic result,by how

> >>> much.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Now climax comes,If Mars is in Taurus

> >> ans

> >>>>> ,Mars is

> >>>>>>>> also aspecting this Saturn 100% and

> >>> vice-versa

> >>>>> is

> >>>>>>> also

> >>>>>>>> true.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> So it will try to make Saturn act

> >>>>> malefically.so

> >>>>>>> what

> >>>>>>>> will be a Saturn's response.Good or

> >>> TooBad.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> =====

> >>>>>>>> "Love is friendship set to music."

> >>>>>>>> "Love conquers all."

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>

>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Tired of spam? Mail has the best

> >>> spam

> >>>>>>>> protection around

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> =====

> >>>>>>>> "Love is friendship set to music."

> >>>>>>>> "Love conquers all."

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Mail - Find what you need with

> >> new

> >>>>> enhanced

> >>>>>>> search.

> >>>>>>>> http://info.mail./mail_250

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> =====

> >>>>>> "Love is friendship set to music."

> >>>>>> "Love conquers all."

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Mail - You care about security. So do

> >>> we.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> =====

> >>>> "Love is friendship set to music."

> >>>> "Love conquers all."

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>

>

> >>>>

> >>>> Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam

> >>> protection around

> >>>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

> >>

> >> =====

> >> "Love is friendship set to music."

> >> "Love conquers all."

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Mail - Find what you need with new

> enhanced

> >> search.

> >> http://info.mail./mail_250

> >>

> >> Sponsor

> >> document.write('');

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Links

> >>

> >> AyurvedJyotishYoga/

> >>

> >>

> >> AyurvedJyotishYoga

> >>

> >

>

<AyurvedJyotishYoga?subject=Un>

> >>

> >> Your use of is subject to the

>

> >> Terms of Service

> >> <> .

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> > =====

> > "Love is friendship set to music."

> > "Love conquers all."

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Mail - You care about security. So do we.

> >

>

>

 

 

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~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~

 

 

 

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Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'