Guest guest Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Dear All, I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. Please guide me. Sincerely Amit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Ji Amitji, In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of discussions due to differences it has been agreed that scietifically prudent to use Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted has also recommended for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. Infact to add to list I also cite the research of Shri K.N.Rao a renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. krishnan amit_call <amit_call wrote: Dear All, I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. Please guide me. Sincerely Amit ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ / All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Dear amit_call, Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa is used in KP analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. It's up to the preference of an individual astrologer. Best regards, tw P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa with deg:min:sec is advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, pp 1, 88-93) , vattem krishnan <bursar_99> wrote: > Ji Amitji, > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of discussions due to differences it has been agreed that scietifically prudent to use Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted has also recommended for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > Infact to add to list I also cite the research of Shri K.N.Rao a renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > krishnan > > amit_call <amit_call> wrote: > > Dear All, > I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > Please guide me. > Sincerely > Amit > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 Please do not be personally offended but I have a bit of problem with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years ago on his newslist, I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a conclusion (he had also used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') was derived. Given that there must be millions of jyotishis in India itself and the population growing like a family of rabbits all over the globe, how can one make a statement like that unless a survey was done. It is his greatness that he eventually responded saying that somewhere (I think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang makers (I recall less than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had congregated with some govt. officials and through their deliberations (details of which I would be curious to learn but have no clue where to find those or if those were even published or made avaiable to anyone)had come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra ayanamsha is the one to be adopted. I never got the information as to how many of these fine individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced jyotish with any success during their lifetime. Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri ayanamsha which is pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he has mentioned that he got good results with the ayanamsha and that this was close to what his astrological guru used/recommended and also close to the values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your time of birth just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. Karve, it seems looked at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and with lahiri ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students probably use only Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a few so cannot tell about the ultimate preferences of all. What we can say that the vocal majority on internet probably uses lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard reference, then the vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the participants (less than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those that ask for readings only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be the experience in other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, express, write). So one can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the astrologers (sorry Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a similar value. This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha does not work or does or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In fact there are many western astrologers who are considered to have been quite effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and work with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one or two degrees, and still produce good results! There are a lot of myths and suppositions and claims floating around in the ocean of astrology about this or that being tge absolute truth in the field of astrology in general and statements such as jyotish is good for predicting events and tropical better at describing the psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier written articles, this is more a reflection of the person and his background who then went on to become an astrologer - the economist drawn to forecasting the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of the diseases, the spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the horoscope, the psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed through the map. The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a few of these are capable of giving such a rich description of the human experience, the full spectrum of which has been beyond the scope of comprehension of any one individual, whether astrologer, jyotishi, tarotomancer, scryer or some Guru yogi divine! RR , "tw853" <tw853> wrote: > > Dear amit_call, > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa is used in KP > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. It's up to the > preference of an individual astrologer. > > Best regards, > > tw > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa with deg:min:sec is > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, pp 1, 88-93) > > > , vattem krishnan > <bursar_99> wrote: > > Ji Amitji, > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of discussions due to > differences it has been agreed that scietifically prudent to use > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted has also recommended > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research of Shri K.N.Rao a > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > krishnan > > > > amit_call <amit_call> wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > Please guide me. > > Sincerely > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 Hello Amitji, For some time I had the fortune of getting associated with Phalit jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New Delhi. In the committee constituted by the Govt of India even late Shri B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several vedic scholars from Benares,Haridwar and other places. Even in these learned institutions research on the subjectof Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are guided through Prof Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India and several other Govts too have supported the research and even built mini jantar-mantars to calculate the movements of planets and study the motion of earth.And these effects through research are getting published in Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati university in India. As far as relativity and percentage of usage of Lahiri Ayanamsa.I have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you want to be sure before you infer as : This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' Let us be sincere to find the relevance of Ayanamsa in Helio Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren Astrologers. Infact what little I have understood from Hindu Predictive Astrology through various approaches of Ganith jyotish,we have three different lagnas for harmonising the results arising out the study of natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and mostly Moon as also lagna.This approach has made us to depend on various mathematical calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a major factor of study was taken up. In the case of westren Astrologers and their philosophy in handing over good results without elaborate rules and the approach of vedic Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve for different sections of this great universe.We like or not the basic of our philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma Siddhantam. In westren thoughts probably they believe in an approach which is not deterministic but gives an opportunity for understanding what is not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is not possible. I agree with you when you say: many western astrologers who are considered to have been quite effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and work with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one or two degrees, and still produce good results Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional element where some soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand predict any thing? In India Astrology is making strides with the revival towards Vedic understanding and to find it's relevance in modern times and in futuristic studies. Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri K.N Rao as my great Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have ventured myself in to these highly sensitive areas of discussions. Thanx krishnan rohiniranjan <rrgb wrote: Please do not be personally offended but I have a bit of problem with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years ago on his newslist, I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a conclusion (he had also used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') was derived. Given that there must be millions of jyotishis in India itself and the population growing like a family of rabbits all over the globe, how can one make a statement like that unless a survey was done. It is his greatness that he eventually responded saying that somewhere (I think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang makers (I recall less than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had congregated with some govt. officials and through their deliberations (details of which I would be curious to learn but have no clue where to find those or if those were even published or made avaiable to anyone)had come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra ayanamsha is the one to be adopted. I never got the information as to how many of these fine individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced jyotish with any success during their lifetime. Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri ayanamsha which is pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he has mentioned that he got good results with the ayanamsha and that this was close to what his astrological guru used/recommended and also close to the values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your time of birth just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. Karve, it seems looked at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and with lahiri ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students probably use only Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a few so cannot tell about the ultimate preferences of all. What we can say that the vocal majority on internet probably uses lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard reference, then the vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the participants (less than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those that ask for readings only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be the experience in other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, express, write). So one can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the astrologers (sorry Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a similar value. This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha does not work or does or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In fact there are many western astrologers who are considered to have been quite effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and work with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one or two degrees, and still produce good results! There are a lot of myths and suppositions and claims floating around in the ocean of astrology about this or that being tge absolute truth in the field of astrology in general and statements such as jyotish is good for predicting events and tropical better at describing the psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier written articles, this is more a reflection of the person and his background who then went on to become an astrologer - the economist drawn to forecasting the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of the diseases, the spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the horoscope, the psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed through the map. The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a few of these are capable of giving such a rich description of the human experience, the full spectrum of which has been beyond the scope of comprehension of any one individual, whether astrologer, jyotishi, tarotomancer, scryer or some Guru yogi divine! RR , "tw853" <tw853> wrote: > > Dear amit_call, > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa is used in KP > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. It's up to the > preference of an individual astrologer. > > Best regards, > > tw > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa with deg:min:sec is > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, pp 1, 88-93) > > > , vattem krishnan > <bursar_99> wrote: > > Ji Amitji, > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of discussions due to > differences it has been agreed that scietifically prudent to use > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted has also recommended > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research of Shri K.N.Rao a > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > krishnan > > > > amit_call <amit_call> wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > Please guide me. > > Sincerely > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ / The all-new My – Get yours free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 Dear Rohini Ranjan, I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture myself into the highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa discussion. For myself I use new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of others. Best wishes, tw , vattem krishnan <bursar_99> wrote: > Hello Amitji, > For some time I had the fortune of getting associated with Phalit jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New Delhi. > In the committee constituted by the Govt of India even late Shri B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several vedic scholars from Benares,Haridwar and other places. > Even in these learned institutions research on the subjectof Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are guided through Prof Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India and several other Govts too have supported the research and even built mini jantar- mantars to calculate the movements of planets and study the motion of earth.And these effects through research are getting published in Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati university in India. > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of Lahiri Ayanamsa.I have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you want to be sure before you infer as : > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of Ayanamsa in Helio Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren Astrologers. > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu Predictive Astrology through various approaches of Ganith jyotish,we have three different lagnas for harmonising the results arising out the study of natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and mostly Moon as also lagna.This approach has made us to depend on various mathematical calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a major factor of study was taken up. > In the case of westren Astrologers and their philosophy in handing over good results without elaborate rules and the approach of vedic Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve for different sections of this great universe.We like or not the basic of our philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma Siddhantam. > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an approach which is not deterministic but gives an opportunity for understanding what is not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is not possible. > I agree with you when you say: > many western astrologers who are considered to have been quite > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and work > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one or two > degrees, and still produce good results > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional element where some soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand predict any thing? > In India Astrology is making strides with the revival towards Vedic understanding and to find it's relevance in modern times and in futuristic studies. > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri K.N Rao as my great Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have ventured myself in to these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > Thanx > krishnan > rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > Please do not be personally offended but I have a bit of problem > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years ago on his newslist, > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a conclusion (he had also > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') was derived. Given > that there must be millions of jyotishis in India itself and the > population growing like a family of rabbits all over the globe, how > can one make a statement like that unless a survey was done. It is > his greatness that he eventually responded saying that somewhere (I > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang makers (I recall less > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had congregated with > some govt. officials and through their deliberations (details of > which I would be curious to learn but have no clue where to find > those or if those were even published or made avaiable to anyone) had > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra ayanamsha is the one to > be adopted. I never got the information as to how many of these fine > individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced jyotish with any > success during their lifetime. > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri ayanamsha which is > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he has mentioned that > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that this was close to > what his astrological guru used/recommended and also close to the > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your time of birth > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. Karve, it seems looked > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and with lahiri > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students probably use only > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a few so cannot tell > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > What we can say that the vocal majority on internet probably uses > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard reference, then the > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the participants (less > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those that ask for readings > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be the experience in > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, express, write). So one > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the astrologers (sorry > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a similar value. This is > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha does not work or does > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In fact there are > many western astrologers who are considered to have been quite > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and work > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one or two > degrees, and still produce good results! > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and claims floating around > in the ocean of astrology about this or that being tge absolute truth > in the field of astrology in general and statements such as jyotish > is good for predicting events and tropical better at describing the > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier written articles, > this is more a reflection of the person and his background who then > went on to become an astrologer - the economist drawn to forecasting > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of the diseases, the > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the horoscope, the > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed through the map. > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a few of these are > capable of giving such a rich description of the human experience, > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the scope of comprehension > of any one individual, whether astrologer, jyotishi, tarotomancer, > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > RR > > > > , "tw853" <tw853> wrote: > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa is used in KP > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. It's up to the > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > Best regards, > > > > tw > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa with deg:min:sec is > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, pp 1, 88-93) > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > <bursar_99> wrote: > > > Ji Amitji, > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of discussions due to > > differences it has been agreed that scietifically prudent to use > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted has also > recommended > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research of Shri K.N.Rao a > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > krishnan > > > > > > amit_call <amit_call> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. > > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > > Please guide me. > > > Sincerely > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > The all-new My – Get yours free! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 Hello Rohiniji, The Astronomical studies have confirmed ecliptical zodiac and the movements of the planets along with planets was never found to be unform.So we have all confusions added to the changes being witnessed in the planet earth due unpredicatable characterstics of Nature.I do not know whether I can put that even the science finds it difficult to say in precise nature.May be Ayanamsa correction is a specific approach from the fixed zodiac of Aries.Westren Astrology based on accptable solar system too may be able to solve the riddles of human life and anticipated events.Even we in our Astrology avoid Neptune and Pluto,westren Astrologers attribute great significance of these two outer planets.Still i believe that the kind of Shodasamasas we have developed can bring out comfortably various aspects of life including the nature of old age through the aid of divisional chart. Keeping these aspects in mind,probably it is appropriate till such that we are not able to deny Ayanamsa,particularly Lahiri's Ayanamsa as useful for our purposes but we do not discount other approaches and certainly not their efficacy in predictions. Certainly Astrology,particularly Vedic Astrology to unfold the the future and past events will always remain to be connected with intution and if not the sixth sense. In this we have umpteen examples including a 10year old British who could recollect from her class rom lessons to say the most unusual and catsrophic events like Tsunami. Even Late B.V.raman makes it a point to refer to the accuracy to Brahma as the creator of universe. Iam sure our distinguished members may have some more valuble suggestions on the subject. Thanx krishnan tw853 <tw853 wrote: Dear Rohini Ranjan, I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture myself into the highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa discussion. For myself I use new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of others. Best wishes, tw , vattem krishnan <bursar_99> wrote: > Hello Amitji, > For some time I had the fortune of getting associated with Phalit jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New Delhi. > In the committee constituted by the Govt of India even late Shri B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several vedic scholars from Benares,Haridwar and other places. > Even in these learned institutions research on the subjectof Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are guided through Prof Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India and several other Govts too have supported the research and even built mini jantar- mantars to calculate the movements of planets and study the motion of earth.And these effects through research are getting published in Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati university in India. > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of Lahiri Ayanamsa.I have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you want to be sure before you infer as : > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of Ayanamsa in Helio Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren Astrologers. > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu Predictive Astrology through various approaches of Ganith jyotish,we have three different lagnas for harmonising the results arising out the study of natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and mostly Moon as also lagna.This approach has made us to depend on various mathematical calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a major factor of study was taken up. > In the case of westren Astrologers and their philosophy in handing over good results without elaborate rules and the approach of vedic Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve for different sections of this great universe.We like or not the basic of our philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma Siddhantam. > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an approach which is not deterministic but gives an opportunity for understanding what is not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is not possible. > I agree with you when you say: > many western astrologers who are considered to have been quite > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and work > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one or two > degrees, and still produce good results > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional element where some soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand predict any thing? > In India Astrology is making strides with the revival towards Vedic understanding and to find it's relevance in modern times and in futuristic studies. > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri K.N Rao as my great Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have ventured myself in to these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > Thanx > krishnan > rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > Please do not be personally offended but I have a bit of problem > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years ago on his newslist, > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a conclusion (he had also > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') was derived. Given > that there must be millions of jyotishis in India itself and the > population growing like a family of rabbits all over the globe, how > can one make a statement like that unless a survey was done. It is > his greatness that he eventually responded saying that somewhere (I > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang makers (I recall less > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had congregated with > some govt. officials and through their deliberations (details of > which I would be curious to learn but have no clue where to find > those or if those were even published or made avaiable to anyone) had > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra ayanamsha is the one to > be adopted. I never got the information as to how many of these fine > individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced jyotish with any > success during their lifetime. > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri ayanamsha which is > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he has mentioned that > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that this was close to > what his astrological guru used/recommended and also close to the > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your time of birth > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. Karve, it seems looked > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and with lahiri > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students probably use only > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a few so cannot tell > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > What we can say that the vocal majority on internet probably uses > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard reference, then the > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the participants (less > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those that ask for readings > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be the experience in > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, express, write). So one > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the astrologers (sorry > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a similar value. This is > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha does not work or does > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In fact there are > many western astrologers who are considered to have been quite > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and work > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one or two > degrees, and still produce good results! > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and claims floating around > in the ocean of astrology about this or that being tge absolute truth > in the field of astrology in general and statements such as jyotish > is good for predicting events and tropical better at describing the > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier written articles, > this is more a reflection of the person and his background who then > went on to become an astrologer - the economist drawn to forecasting > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of the diseases, the > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the horoscope, the > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed through the map. > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a few of these are > capable of giving such a rich description of the human experience, > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the scope of comprehension > of any one individual, whether astrologer, jyotishi, tarotomancer, > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > RR > > > > , "tw853" <tw853> wrote: > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa is used in KP > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. It's up to the > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > Best regards, > > > > tw > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa with deg:min:sec is > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, pp 1, 88-93) > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > <bursar_99> wrote: > > > Ji Amitji, > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of discussions due to > > differences it has been agreed that scietifically prudent to use > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted has also > recommended > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research of Shri K.N.Rao a > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > krishnan > > > > > > amit_call <amit_call> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. > > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > > Please guide me. > > > Sincerely > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > The all-new My – Get yours free! > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ / Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 I hope I am understanding you correctly, that your position is that no specific ayanamsha alone can explain all that astrology (as we know it) explains. That there are more mysteries that lie, Horatio, between the heaven and earth? If so, then yes that is what I was saying all along, namely, that there are divinators that successfully use different ayanamshas, and some that do not even use ayanamshas, so no point in agonizing over which ayanamsha is the only accurate one. Pardon my crude and cruel analogy, but the aiming sights on a rifle while of tremendous help in improving the marksmanship, would alone not make one an expert marksman! Ayanamsha is like that 'sight' which definitely is helpful if trained at the target carefully, however, the marksman still must effectively learn to hold the rifle and improve their skills. Most practitioners (present company excepted of course!) in astrology of any kind are at best figuring their way out of this dense forest, even if they may not be brave enough to admit. Your sage advice to not make ayanamsha a big deal is well-given and finds accord in my own personal outlook. I respond only when I notice overt or covert insinuations that a given ayanamsha is somehow the best without no direct and ample proof for such, forthcoming. Happy New Year! RR , vattem krishnan <bursar_99> wrote: > Hello Rohiniji, > The Astronomical studies have confirmed ecliptical zodiac and the movements of the planets along with planets was never found to be unform.So we have all confusions added to the changes being witnessed in the planet earth due unpredicatable characterstics of Nature.I do not know whether I can put that even the science finds it difficult to say in precise nature.May be Ayanamsa correction is a specific approach from the fixed zodiac of Aries.Westren Astrology based on accptable solar system too may be able to solve the riddles of human life and anticipated events.Even we in our Astrology avoid Neptune and Pluto,westren Astrologers attribute great significance of these two outer planets.Still i believe that the kind of Shodasamasas we have developed can bring out comfortably various aspects of life including the nature of old age through the aid of divisional chart. > Keeping these aspects in mind,probably it is appropriate till such that we are not able to deny Ayanamsa,particularly Lahiri's Ayanamsa as useful for our purposes but we do not discount other approaches and certainly not their efficacy in predictions. > Certainly Astrology,particularly Vedic Astrology to unfold the the future and past events will always remain to be connected with intution and if not the sixth sense. > In this we have umpteen examples including a 10year old British who could recollect from her class rom lessons to say the most unusual and catsrophic events like Tsunami. > Even Late B.V.raman makes it a point to refer to the accuracy to Brahma as the creator of universe. > Iam sure our distinguished members may have some more valuble suggestions on the subject. > Thanx > krishnan > > tw853 <tw853> wrote: > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture myself into the > highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa discussion. For myself I use > new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting the personal > preferences of others. > > Best wishes, > > tw > > > , vattem krishnan > <bursar_99> wrote: > > Hello Amitji, > > For some time I had the fortune of getting associated with Phalit > jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New Delhi. > > In the committee constituted by the Govt of India even late Shri > B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several vedic scholars from > Benares,Haridwar and other places. > > Even in these learned institutions research on the subjectof > Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are guided through Prof > Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India and several other > Govts too have supported the research and even built mini jantar- > mantars to calculate the movements of planets and study the motion of > earth.And these effects through research are getting published in > Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati university in India. > > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of Lahiri Ayanamsa.I > have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you want to be sure > before you infer as : > > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' > > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of Ayanamsa in Helio > Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren Astrologers. > > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu Predictive > Astrology through various approaches of Ganith jyotish,we have three > different lagnas for harmonising the results arising out the study of > natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and mostly Moon as also > lagna.This approach has made us to depend on various mathematical > calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a major factor of study > was taken up. > > In the case of westren Astrologers and their philosophy in handing > over good results without elaborate rules and the approach of vedic > Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve for different > sections of this great universe.We like or not the basic of our > philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma Siddhantam. > > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an approach which is > not deterministic but gives an opportunity for understanding what is > not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is not possible. > > I agree with you when you say: > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been quite > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and work > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one or > two > > degrees, and still produce good results > > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional element where some > soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand predict any thing? > > In India Astrology is making strides with the revival towards Vedic > understanding and to find it's relevance in modern times and in > futuristic studies. > > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri K.N Rao as my great > Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have ventured myself in to > these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > > Thanx > > krishnan > > rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > > > Please do not be personally offended but I have a bit of problem > > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years ago on his > newslist, > > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a conclusion (he had > also > > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') was derived. Given > > that there must be millions of jyotishis in India itself and the > > population growing like a family of rabbits all over the globe, how > > can one make a statement like that unless a survey was done. It is > > his greatness that he eventually responded saying that somewhere (I > > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang makers (I recall less > > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had congregated with > > some govt. officials and through their deliberations (details of > > which I would be curious to learn but have no clue where to find > > those or if those were even published or made avaiable to anyone) > had > > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra ayanamsha is the one > to > > be adopted. I never got the information as to how many of these > fine > > individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced jyotish with any > > success during their lifetime. > > > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri ayanamsha which is > > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he has mentioned > that > > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that this was close to > > what his astrological guru used/recommended and also close to the > > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your time of birth > > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. Karve, it seems > looked > > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and with lahiri > > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students probably use only > > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a few so cannot > tell > > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > > > What we can say that the vocal majority on internet probably uses > > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard reference, then the > > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the participants (less > > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those that ask for > readings > > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be the experience > in > > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, express, write). So > one > > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the astrologers > (sorry > > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a similar value. This > is > > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha does not work or > does > > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In fact there are > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been quite > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and work > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one or > two > > degrees, and still produce good results! > > > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and claims floating > around > > in the ocean of astrology about this or that being tge absolute > truth > > in the field of astrology in general and statements such as jyotish > > is good for predicting events and tropical better at describing the > > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier written > articles, > > this is more a reflection of the person and his background who then > > went on to become an astrologer - the economist drawn to > forecasting > > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of the diseases, the > > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the horoscope, the > > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed through the map. > > > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a few of these are > > capable of giving such a rich description of the human experience, > > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the scope of > comprehension > > of any one individual, whether astrologer, jyotishi, tarotomancer, > > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "tw853" <tw853> wrote: > > > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa is used in KP > > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. It's up to the > > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > tw > > > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa with deg:min:sec is > > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, pp 1, 88-93) > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > <bursar_99> wrote: > > > > Ji Amitji, > > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of discussions due to > > > differences it has been agreed that scietifically prudent to use > > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted has also > > recommended > > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research of Shri K.N.Rao > a > > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > amit_call <amit_call> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. > > > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > > > Please guide me. > > > > Sincerely > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > The all-new My – Get yours free! > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 I hope one can use what WORKS for him as INDIVIDUAL astrologer, while simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of others. Best regards, tw , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > I hope I am understanding you correctly, that your position is that > no specific ayanamsha alone can explain all that astrology (as we > know it) explains. That there are more mysteries that lie, Horatio, > between the heaven and earth? If so, then yes that is what I was > saying all along, namely, that there are divinators that successfully > use different ayanamshas, and some that do not even use ayanamshas, > so no point in agonizing over which ayanamsha is the only accurate > one. > > Pardon my crude and cruel analogy, but the aiming sights on a rifle > while of tremendous help in improving the marksmanship, would alone > not make one an expert marksman! Ayanamsha is like that 'sight' which > definitely is helpful if trained at the target carefully, however, > the marksman still must effectively learn to hold the rifle and > improve their skills. > > Most practitioners (present company excepted of course!) in astrology > of any kind are at best figuring their way out of this dense forest, > even if they may not be brave enough to admit. Your sage advice to > not make ayanamsha a big deal is well-given and finds accord in my > own personal outlook. I respond only when I notice overt or covert > insinuations that a given ayanamsha is somehow the best without no > direct and ample proof for such, forthcoming. > > Happy New Year! > > RR > > > , vattem krishnan > <bursar_99> wrote: > > Hello Rohiniji, > > The Astronomical studies have confirmed ecliptical zodiac and the > movements of the planets along with planets was never found to be > unform.So we have all confusions added to the changes being witnessed > in the planet earth due unpredicatable characterstics of Nature.I do > not know whether I can put that even the science finds it difficult > to say in precise nature.May be Ayanamsa correction is a specific > approach from the fixed zodiac of Aries.Westren Astrology based on > accptable solar system too may be able to solve the riddles of human > life and anticipated events.Even we in our Astrology avoid Neptune > and Pluto,westren Astrologers attribute great significance of these > two outer planets.Still i believe that the kind of Shodasamasas we > have developed can bring out comfortably various aspects of life > including the nature of old age through the aid of divisional chart. > > Keeping these aspects in mind,probably it is appropriate till such > that we are not able to deny Ayanamsa,particularly Lahiri's Ayanamsa > as useful for our purposes but we do not discount other approaches > and certainly not their efficacy in predictions. > > Certainly Astrology,particularly Vedic Astrology to unfold the the > future and past events will always remain to be connected with > intution and if not the sixth sense. > > In this we have umpteen examples including a 10year old British who > could recollect from her class rom lessons to say the most unusual > and catsrophic events like Tsunami. > > Even Late B.V.raman makes it a point to refer to the accuracy to > Brahma as the creator of universe. > > Iam sure our distinguished members may have some more valuble > suggestions on the subject. > > Thanx > > krishnan > > > > tw853 <tw853> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > > > I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture myself into the > > highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa discussion. For myself I > use > > new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting the personal > > preferences of others. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > tw > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > <bursar_99> wrote: > > > Hello Amitji, > > > For some time I had the fortune of getting associated with > Phalit > > jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New Delhi. > > > In the committee constituted by the Govt of India even late Shri > > B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several vedic scholars from > > Benares,Haridwar and other places. > > > Even in these learned institutions research on the subjectof > > Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are guided through Prof > > Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India and several > other > > Govts too have supported the research and even built mini jantar- > > mantars to calculate the movements of planets and study the motion > of > > earth.And these effects through research are getting published in > > Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati university in India. > > > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of Lahiri Ayanamsa.I > > have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you want to be sure > > before you infer as : > > > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' > > > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of Ayanamsa in Helio > > Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren Astrologers. > > > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu Predictive > > Astrology through various approaches of Ganith jyotish,we have > three > > different lagnas for harmonising the results arising out the study > of > > natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and mostly Moon as > also > > lagna.This approach has made us to depend on various mathematical > > calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a major factor of > study > > was taken up. > > > In the case of westren Astrologers and their philosophy in > handing > > over good results without elaborate rules and the approach of vedic > > Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve for different > > sections of this great universe.We like or not the basic of our > > philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma Siddhantam. > > > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an approach which is > > not deterministic but gives an opportunity for understanding what > is > > not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is not possible. > > > I agree with you when you say: > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been quite > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and > work > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one or > > two > > > degrees, and still produce good results > > > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional element where > some > > soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand predict any thing? > > > In India Astrology is making strides with the revival towards > Vedic > > understanding and to find it's relevance in modern times and in > > futuristic studies. > > > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri K.N Rao as my > great > > Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have ventured myself in > to > > these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > > > Thanx > > > krishnan > > > rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > > > > > Please do not be personally offended but I have a bit of problem > > > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years ago on his > > newslist, > > > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a conclusion (he had > > also > > > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') was derived. > Given > > > that there must be millions of jyotishis in India itself and the > > > population growing like a family of rabbits all over the globe, > how > > > can one make a statement like that unless a survey was done. It > is > > > his greatness that he eventually responded saying that somewhere > (I > > > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang makers (I recall > less > > > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had congregated > with > > > some govt. officials and through their deliberations (details of > > > which I would be curious to learn but have no clue where to find > > > those or if those were even published or made avaiable to anyone) > > had > > > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra ayanamsha is the > one > > to > > > be adopted. I never got the information as to how many of these > > fine > > > individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced jyotish with > any > > > success during their lifetime. > > > > > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri ayanamsha which is > > > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he has mentioned > > that > > > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that this was close to > > > what his astrological guru used/recommended and also close to the > > > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your time of birth > > > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. Karve, it seems > > looked > > > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and with lahiri > > > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students probably use > only > > > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a few so cannot > > tell > > > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > > > > > What we can say that the vocal majority on internet probably uses > > > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard reference, then the > > > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the participants > (less > > > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those that ask for > > readings > > > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be the experience > > in > > > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, express, write). So > > one > > > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the astrologers > > (sorry > > > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a similar value. > This > > is > > > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > > > > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha does not work or > > does > > > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In fact there > are > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been quite > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and > work > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one or > > two > > > degrees, and still produce good results! > > > > > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and claims floating > > around > > > in the ocean of astrology about this or that being tge absolute > > truth > > > in the field of astrology in general and statements such as > jyotish > > > is good for predicting events and tropical better at describing > the > > > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier written > > articles, > > > this is more a reflection of the person and his background who > then > > > went on to become an astrologer - the economist drawn to > > forecasting > > > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of the diseases, > the > > > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the horoscope, the > > > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed through the map. > > > > > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a few of these > are > > > capable of giving such a rich description of the human > experience, > > > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the scope of > > comprehension > > > of any one individual, whether astrologer, jyotishi, > tarotomancer, > > > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" <tw853> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa is used in KP > > > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. It's up to > the > > > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa with deg:min:sec > is > > > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, pp 1, 88-93) > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > <bursar_99> wrote: > > > > > Ji Amitji, > > > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of discussions due > to > > > > differences it has been agreed that scietifically prudent to > use > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted has also > > > recommended > > > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research of Shri > K.N.Rao > > a > > > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > amit_call <amit_call> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. > > > > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > > > > Please guide me. > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > of > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The all-new My – Get yours free! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Yes -- that is my view too, fwiw. rr , "tw853" <tw853> wrote: > > I hope one can use what WORKS for him as INDIVIDUAL astrologer, while > simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of others. > > Best regards, > > tw > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > > > I hope I am understanding you correctly, that your position is that > > no specific ayanamsha alone can explain all that astrology (as we > > know it) explains. That there are more mysteries that lie, Horatio, > > between the heaven and earth? If so, then yes that is what I was > > saying all along, namely, that there are divinators that > successfully > > use different ayanamshas, and some that do not even use ayanamshas, > > so no point in agonizing over which ayanamsha is the only accurate > > one. > > > > Pardon my crude and cruel analogy, but the aiming sights on a rifle > > while of tremendous help in improving the marksmanship, would alone > > not make one an expert marksman! Ayanamsha is like that 'sight' > which > > definitely is helpful if trained at the target carefully, however, > > the marksman still must effectively learn to hold the rifle and > > improve their skills. > > > > Most practitioners (present company excepted of course!) in > astrology > > of any kind are at best figuring their way out of this dense > forest, > > even if they may not be brave enough to admit. Your sage advice to > > not make ayanamsha a big deal is well-given and finds accord in my > > own personal outlook. I respond only when I notice overt or covert > > insinuations that a given ayanamsha is somehow the best without no > > direct and ample proof for such, forthcoming. > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > RR > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > <bursar_99> wrote: > > > Hello Rohiniji, > > > The Astronomical studies have confirmed ecliptical zodiac and the > > movements of the planets along with planets was never found to be > > unform.So we have all confusions added to the changes being > witnessed > > in the planet earth due unpredicatable characterstics of Nature.I > do > > not know whether I can put that even the science finds it difficult > > to say in precise nature.May be Ayanamsa correction is a specific > > approach from the fixed zodiac of Aries.Westren Astrology based on > > accptable solar system too may be able to solve the riddles of > human > > life and anticipated events.Even we in our Astrology avoid Neptune > > and Pluto,westren Astrologers attribute great significance of these > > two outer planets.Still i believe that the kind of Shodasamasas we > > have developed can bring out comfortably various aspects of life > > including the nature of old age through the aid of divisional chart. > > > Keeping these aspects in mind,probably it is appropriate till > such > > that we are not able to deny Ayanamsa,particularly Lahiri's > Ayanamsa > > as useful for our purposes but we do not discount other approaches > > and certainly not their efficacy in predictions. > > > Certainly Astrology,particularly Vedic Astrology to unfold the > the > > future and past events will always remain to be connected with > > intution and if not the sixth sense. > > > In this we have umpteen examples including a 10year old British > who > > could recollect from her class rom lessons to say the most unusual > > and catsrophic events like Tsunami. > > > Even Late B.V.raman makes it a point to refer to the accuracy to > > Brahma as the creator of universe. > > > Iam sure our distinguished members may have some more valuble > > suggestions on the subject. > > > Thanx > > > krishnan > > > > > > tw853 <tw853> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > > > > > I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture myself into the > > > highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa discussion. For myself I > > use > > > new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting the personal > > > preferences of others. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > <bursar_99> wrote: > > > > Hello Amitji, > > > > For some time I had the fortune of getting associated with > > Phalit > > > jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New Delhi. > > > > In the committee constituted by the Govt of India even late > Shri > > > B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several vedic scholars > from > > > Benares,Haridwar and other places. > > > > Even in these learned institutions research on the subjectof > > > Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are guided through > Prof > > > Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India and several > > other > > > Govts too have supported the research and even built mini jantar- > > > mantars to calculate the movements of planets and study the > motion > > of > > > earth.And these effects through research are getting published in > > > Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati university in > India. > > > > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of Lahiri > Ayanamsa.I > > > have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you want to be sure > > > before you infer as : > > > > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' > > > > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of Ayanamsa in Helio > > > Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren Astrologers. > > > > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu Predictive > > > Astrology through various approaches of Ganith jyotish,we have > > three > > > different lagnas for harmonising the results arising out the > study > > of > > > natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and mostly Moon as > > also > > > lagna.This approach has made us to depend on various mathematical > > > calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a major factor of > > study > > > was taken up. > > > > In the case of westren Astrologers and their philosophy in > > handing > > > over good results without elaborate rules and the approach of > vedic > > > Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve for different > > > sections of this great universe.We like or not the basic of our > > > philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma Siddhantam. > > > > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an approach which > is > > > not deterministic but gives an opportunity for understanding what > > is > > > not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is not possible. > > > > I agree with you when you say: > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been quite > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and > > work > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one > or > > > two > > > > degrees, and still produce good results > > > > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional element where > > some > > > soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand predict any > thing? > > > > In India Astrology is making strides with the revival towards > > Vedic > > > understanding and to find it's relevance in modern times and in > > > futuristic studies. > > > > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri K.N Rao as my > > great > > > Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have ventured myself in > > to > > > these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > > > > Thanx > > > > krishnan > > > > rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Please do not be personally offended but I have a bit of > problem > > > > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years ago on his > > > newslist, > > > > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a conclusion (he > had > > > also > > > > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') was derived. > > Given > > > > that there must be millions of jyotishis in India itself and > the > > > > population growing like a family of rabbits all over the globe, > > how > > > > can one make a statement like that unless a survey was done. It > > is > > > > his greatness that he eventually responded saying that > somewhere > > (I > > > > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang makers (I recall > > less > > > > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had congregated > > with > > > > some govt. officials and through their deliberations (details > of > > > > which I would be curious to learn but have no clue where to > find > > > > those or if those were even published or made avaiable to > anyone) > > > had > > > > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra ayanamsha is the > > one > > > to > > > > be adopted. I never got the information as to how many of these > > > fine > > > > individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced jyotish with > > any > > > > success during their lifetime. > > > > > > > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri ayanamsha which > is > > > > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he has mentioned > > > that > > > > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that this was close > to > > > > what his astrological guru used/recommended and also close to > the > > > > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your time of > birth > > > > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. Karve, it seems > > > looked > > > > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and with lahiri > > > > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students probably use > > only > > > > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a few so > cannot > > > tell > > > > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > > > > > > > What we can say that the vocal majority on internet probably > uses > > > > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard reference, then > the > > > > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the participants > > (less > > > > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those that ask for > > > readings > > > > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be the > experience > > > in > > > > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, express, write). > So > > > one > > > > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the astrologers > > > (sorry > > > > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a similar value. > > This > > > is > > > > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > > > > > > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha does not work > or > > > does > > > > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In fact there > > are > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been quite > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and > > work > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one > or > > > two > > > > degrees, and still produce good results! > > > > > > > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and claims floating > > > around > > > > in the ocean of astrology about this or that being tge absolute > > > truth > > > > in the field of astrology in general and statements such as > > jyotish > > > > is good for predicting events and tropical better at describing > > the > > > > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier written > > > articles, > > > > this is more a reflection of the person and his background who > > then > > > > went on to become an astrologer - the economist drawn to > > > forecasting > > > > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of the diseases, > > the > > > > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the horoscope, the > > > > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed through the map. > > > > > > > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a few of these > > are > > > > capable of giving such a rich description of the human > > experience, > > > > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the scope of > > > comprehension > > > > of any one individual, whether astrologer, jyotishi, > > tarotomancer, > > > > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" <tw853> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa is used in KP > > > > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. It's up to > > the > > > > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa with > deg:min:sec > > is > > > > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, pp 1, 88- 93) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > <bursar_99> wrote: > > > > > > Ji Amitji, > > > > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of discussions due > > to > > > > > differences it has been agreed that scietifically prudent to > > use > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted has also > > > > recommended > > > > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research of Shri > > K.N.Rao > > > a > > > > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > amit_call <amit_call> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. > > > > > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > > > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > > > > > Please guide me. > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > > of > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The all-new My – Get yours free! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Sorry for the delay in response. But you're right. It is the man behind the weapon who counts. The weapon is just a piece of metal, wood and other ingredients of which it is composed. The difference between innimate and animate needs to be understood very clearly. Best wishes for a happy and prosperous new year. Amitabh Shastri rohiniranjan <rrgb wrote: Yes -- that is my view too, fwiw. rr , "tw853" wrote: > > I hope one can use what WORKS for him as INDIVIDUAL astrologer, while > simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of others. > > Best regards, > > tw > > , "rohiniranjan" > wrote: > > > > I hope I am understanding you correctly, that your position is that > > no specific ayanamsha alone can explain all that astrology (as we > > know it) explains. That there are more mysteries that lie, Horatio, > > between the heaven and earth? If so, then yes that is what I was > > saying all along, namely, that there are divinators that > successfully > > use different ayanamshas, and some that do not even use ayanamshas, > > so no point in agonizing over which ayanamsha is the only accurate > > one. > > > > Pardon my crude and cruel analogy, but the aiming sights on a rifle > > while of tremendous help in improving the marksmanship, would alone > > not make one an expert marksman! Ayanamsha is like that 'sight' > which > > definitely is helpful if trained at the target carefully, however, > > the marksman still must effectively learn to hold the rifle and > > improve their skills. > > > > Most practitioners (present company excepted of course!) in > astrology > > of any kind are at best figuring their way out of this dense > forest, > > even if they may not be brave enough to admit. Your sage advice to > > not make ayanamsha a big deal is well-given and finds accord in my > > own personal outlook. I respond only when I notice overt or covert > > insinuations that a given ayanamsha is somehow the best without no > > direct and ample proof for such, forthcoming. > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > RR > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > wrote: > > > Hello Rohiniji, > > > The Astronomical studies have confirmed ecliptical zodiac and the > > movements of the planets along with planets was never found to be > > unform.So we have all confusions added to the changes being > witnessed > > in the planet earth due unpredicatable characterstics of Nature.I > do > > not know whether I can put that even the science finds it difficult > > to say in precise nature.May be Ayanamsa correction is a specific > > approach from the fixed zodiac of Aries.Westren Astrology based on > > accptable solar system too may be able to solve the riddles of > human > > life and anticipated events.Even we in our Astrology avoid Neptune > > and Pluto,westren Astrologers attribute great significance of these > > two outer planets.Still i believe that the kind of Shodasamasas we > > have developed can bring out comfortably various aspects of life > > including the nature of old age through the aid of divisional chart. > > > Keeping these aspects in mind,probably it is appropriate till > such > > that we are not able to deny Ayanamsa,particularly Lahiri's > Ayanamsa > > as useful for our purposes but we do not discount other approaches > > and certainly not their efficacy in predictions. > > > Certainly Astrology,particularly Vedic Astrology to unfold the > the > > future and past events will always remain to be connected with > > intution and if not the sixth sense. > > > In this we have umpteen examples including a 10year old British > who > > could recollect from her class rom lessons to say the most unusual > > and catsrophic events like Tsunami. > > > Even Late B.V.raman makes it a point to refer to the accuracy to > > Brahma as the creator of universe. > > > Iam sure our distinguished members may have some more valuble > > suggestions on the subject. > > > Thanx > > > krishnan > > > > > > tw853 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > > > > > I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture myself into the > > > highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa discussion. For myself I > > use > > > new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting the personal > > > preferences of others. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > wrote: > > > > Hello Amitji, > > > > For some time I had the fortune of getting associated with > > Phalit > > > jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New Delhi. > > > > In the committee constituted by the Govt of India even late > Shri > > > B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several vedic scholars > from > > > Benares,Haridwar and other places. > > > > Even in these learned institutions research on the subjectof > > > Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are guided through > Prof > > > Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India and several > > other > > > Govts too have supported the research and even built mini jantar- > > > mantars to calculate the movements of planets and study the > motion > > of > > > earth.And these effects through research are getting published in > > > Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati university in > India. > > > > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of Lahiri > Ayanamsa.I > > > have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you want to be sure > > > before you infer as : > > > > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' > > > > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of Ayanamsa in Helio > > > Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren Astrologers. > > > > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu Predictive > > > Astrology through various approaches of Ganith jyotish,we have > > three > > > different lagnas for harmonising the results arising out the > study > > of > > > natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and mostly Moon as > > also > > > lagna.This approach has made us to depend on various mathematical > > > calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a major factor of > > study > > > was taken up. > > > > In the case of westren Astrologers and their philosophy in > > handing > > > over good results without elaborate rules and the approach of > vedic > > > Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve for different > > > sections of this great universe.We like or not the basic of our > > > philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma Siddhantam. > > > > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an approach which > is > > > not deterministic but gives an opportunity for understanding what > > is > > > not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is not possible. > > > > I agree with you when you say: > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been quite > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and > > work > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one > or > > > two > > > > degrees, and still produce good results > > > > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional element where > > some > > > soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand predict any > thing? > > > > In India Astrology is making strides with the revival towards > > Vedic > > > understanding and to find it's relevance in modern times and in > > > futuristic studies. > > > > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri K.N Rao as my > > great > > > Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have ventured myself in > > to > > > these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > > > > Thanx > > > > krishnan > > > > rohiniranjan wrote: > > > > > > > > Please do not be personally offended but I have a bit of > problem > > > > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years ago on his > > > newslist, > > > > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a conclusion (he > had > > > also > > > > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') was derived. > > Given > > > > that there must be millions of jyotishis in India itself and > the > > > > population growing like a family of rabbits all over the globe, > > how > > > > can one make a statement like that unless a survey was done. It > > is > > > > his greatness that he eventually responded saying that > somewhere > > (I > > > > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang makers (I recall > > less > > > > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had congregated > > with > > > > some govt. officials and through their deliberations (details > of > > > > which I would be curious to learn but have no clue where to > find > > > > those or if those were even published or made avaiable to > anyone) > > > had > > > > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra ayanamsha is the > > one > > > to > > > > be adopted. I never got the information as to how many of these > > > fine > > > > individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced jyotish with > > any > > > > success during their lifetime. > > > > > > > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri ayanamsha which > is > > > > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he has mentioned > > > that > > > > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that this was close > to > > > > what his astrological guru used/recommended and also close to > the > > > > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your time of > birth > > > > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. Karve, it seems > > > looked > > > > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and with lahiri > > > > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students probably use > > only > > > > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a few so > cannot > > > tell > > > > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > > > > > > > What we can say that the vocal majority on internet probably > uses > > > > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard reference, then > the > > > > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the participants > > (less > > > > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those that ask for > > > readings > > > > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be the > experience > > > in > > > > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, express, write). > So > > > one > > > > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the astrologers > > > (sorry > > > > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a similar value. > > This > > > is > > > > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > > > > > > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha does not work > or > > > does > > > > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In fact there > > are > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been quite > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and > > work > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one > or > > > two > > > > degrees, and still produce good results! > > > > > > > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and claims floating > > > around > > > > in the ocean of astrology about this or that being tge absolute > > > truth > > > > in the field of astrology in general and statements such as > > jyotish > > > > is good for predicting events and tropical better at describing > > the > > > > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier written > > > articles, > > > > this is more a reflection of the person and his background who > > then > > > > went on to become an astrologer - the economist drawn to > > > forecasting > > > > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of the diseases, > > the > > > > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the horoscope, the > > > > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed through the map. > > > > > > > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a few of these > > are > > > > capable of giving such a rich description of the human > > experience, > > > > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the scope of > > > comprehension > > > > of any one individual, whether astrologer, jyotishi, > > tarotomancer, > > > > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa is used in KP > > > > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. It's up to > > the > > > > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa with > deg:min:sec > > is > > > > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, pp 1, 88- 93) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Ji Amitji, > > > > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of discussions due > > to > > > > > differences it has been agreed that scietifically prudent to > > use > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted has also > > > > recommended > > > > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research of Shri > > K.N.Rao > > > a > > > > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > amit_call wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. > > > > > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > > > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > > > > > Please guide me. > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! 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Guest guest Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Dear All, I thank all the members for postings and throwing light on this Ayamansa confusion. This is accepted that Pridiction is one's own ability. Also in a magazine of astrology i read a sloka which says "In Kaliyuga only a few will be true astrologers and the best ones' pridictive power will only manifest to 25%" I do not remember the exact sloka but the meaning was same. Also i want to add that some time back i met a Nadi Reader. in Nadi i was amazed to see that they told my name,my parents name ,some educational background,present condition and a little more. also as per Nadi he made a chart and gave to me. This chart is same as i get using Lahiri and KP Ayamansa. Also one of my friend got a chance to meet a sidhha Purush in Bulandshahar(U.P.).He is a young sanyasi.Looking at face he said something about him..his problems and told that he was having Kaal Sarpa Dosha. I was very new to astrology at that time.I started reading abt KSD and found that there was really KSD in his chart. Now i see this chart is as per Lahiri Ayamansa. Other Ayamansa give no KSD. Well, its a matter of observation...... I have to observe in a time span which chart better explains my life and which charts Dashas confirms the timing of events. As i am new to astrology hence i was hesitating to adopt this approach. Also i sing with your lines "Intuition is great reliable tool". Thanks Sincerely Amit Kumar , Amitabh Shastri <amitabh_shastri> wrote: > Sorry for the delay in response. But you're right. It is the man behind the weapon who counts. The weapon is just a piece of metal, wood and other ingredients of which it is composed. > The difference between innimate and animate needs to be understood very clearly. > Best wishes for a happy and prosperous new year. > Amitabh Shastri > rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > > Yes -- that is my view too, fwiw. > > rr > > , "tw853" wrote: > > > > I hope one can use what WORKS for him as INDIVIDUAL astrologer, > while > > simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of others. > > > > Best regards, > > > > tw > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > wrote: > > > > > > I hope I am understanding you correctly, that your position is > that > > > no specific ayanamsha alone can explain all that astrology (as we > > > know it) explains. That there are more mysteries that lie, > Horatio, > > > between the heaven and earth? If so, then yes that is what I was > > > saying all along, namely, that there are divinators that > > successfully > > > use different ayanamshas, and some that do not even use > ayanamshas, > > > so no point in agonizing over which ayanamsha is the only > accurate > > > one. > > > > > > Pardon my crude and cruel analogy, but the aiming sights on a > rifle > > > while of tremendous help in improving the marksmanship, would > alone > > > not make one an expert marksman! Ayanamsha is like that 'sight' > > which > > > definitely is helpful if trained at the target carefully, > however, > > > the marksman still must effectively learn to hold the rifle and > > > improve their skills. > > > > > > Most practitioners (present company excepted of course!) in > > astrology > > > of any kind are at best figuring their way out of this dense > > forest, > > > even if they may not be brave enough to admit. Your sage advice > to > > > not make ayanamsha a big deal is well-given and finds accord in > my > > > own personal outlook. I respond only when I notice overt or > covert > > > insinuations that a given ayanamsha is somehow the best without > no > > > direct and ample proof for such, forthcoming. > > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > wrote: > > > > Hello Rohiniji, > > > > The Astronomical studies have confirmed ecliptical zodiac and > the > > > movements of the planets along with planets was never found to be > > > unform.So we have all confusions added to the changes being > > witnessed > > > in the planet earth due unpredicatable characterstics of > Nature.I > > do > > > not know whether I can put that even the science finds it > difficult > > > to say in precise nature.May be Ayanamsa correction is a specific > > > approach from the fixed zodiac of Aries.Westren Astrology based > on > > > accptable solar system too may be able to solve the riddles of > > human > > > life and anticipated events.Even we in our Astrology avoid > Neptune > > > and Pluto,westren Astrologers attribute great significance of > these > > > two outer planets.Still i believe that the kind of Shodasamasas > we > > > have developed can bring out comfortably various aspects of life > > > including the nature of old age through the aid of divisional > chart. > > > > Keeping these aspects in mind,probably it is appropriate till > > such > > > that we are not able to deny Ayanamsa,particularly Lahiri's > > Ayanamsa > > > as useful for our purposes but we do not discount other > approaches > > > and certainly not their efficacy in predictions. > > > > Certainly Astrology,particularly Vedic Astrology to unfold the > > the > > > future and past events will always remain to be connected with > > > intution and if not the sixth sense. > > > > In this we have umpteen examples including a 10year old British > > who > > > could recollect from her class rom lessons to say the most > unusual > > > and catsrophic events like Tsunami. > > > > Even Late B.V.raman makes it a point to refer to the accuracy > to > > > Brahma as the creator of universe. > > > > Iam sure our distinguished members may have some more valuble > > > suggestions on the subject. > > > > Thanx > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > tw853 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > > > > > > > I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture myself into > the > > > > highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa discussion. For myself > I > > > use > > > > new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting the personal > > > > preferences of others. > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > wrote: > > > > > Hello Amitji, > > > > > For some time I had the fortune of getting associated with > > > Phalit > > > > jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New Delhi. > > > > > In the committee constituted by the Govt of India even late > > Shri > > > > B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several vedic scholars > > from > > > > Benares,Haridwar and other places. > > > > > Even in these learned institutions research on the subjectof > > > > Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are guided through > > Prof > > > > Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India and several > > > other > > > > Govts too have supported the research and even built mini > jantar- > > > > mantars to calculate the movements of planets and study the > > motion > > > of > > > > earth.And these effects through research are getting published > in > > > > Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati university in > > India. > > > > > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of Lahiri > > Ayanamsa.I > > > > have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you want to be > sure > > > > before you infer as : > > > > > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' > > > > > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of Ayanamsa in Helio > > > > Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren Astrologers. > > > > > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu Predictive > > > > Astrology through various approaches of Ganith jyotish,we have > > > three > > > > different lagnas for harmonising the results arising out the > > study > > > of > > > > natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and mostly Moon > as > > > also > > > > lagna.This approach has made us to depend on various > mathematical > > > > calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a major factor of > > > study > > > > was taken up. > > > > > In the case of westren Astrologers and their philosophy in > > > handing > > > > over good results without elaborate rules and the approach of > > vedic > > > > Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve for > different > > > > sections of this great universe.We like or not the basic of our > > > > philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma Siddhantam. > > > > > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an approach > which > > is > > > > not deterministic but gives an opportunity for understanding > what > > > is > > > > not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is not possible. > > > > > I agree with you when you say: > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been > quite > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and > > > work > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one > > or > > > > two > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results > > > > > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional element where > > > some > > > > soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand predict any > > thing? > > > > > In India Astrology is making strides with the revival towards > > > Vedic > > > > understanding and to find it's relevance in modern times and in > > > > futuristic studies. > > > > > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri K.N Rao as my > > > great > > > > Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have ventured myself > in > > > to > > > > these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > > > > > Thanx > > > > > krishnan > > > > > rohiniranjan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Please do not be personally offended but I have a bit of > > problem > > > > > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years ago on his > > > > newslist, > > > > > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a conclusion (he > > had > > > > also > > > > > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') was derived. > > > Given > > > > > that there must be millions of jyotishis in India itself and > > the > > > > > population growing like a family of rabbits all over the > globe, > > > how > > > > > can one make a statement like that unless a survey was done. > It > > > is > > > > > his greatness that he eventually responded saying that > > somewhere > > > (I > > > > > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang makers (I > recall > > > less > > > > > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had > congregated > > > with > > > > > some govt. officials and through their deliberations (details > > of > > > > > which I would be curious to learn but have no clue where to > > find > > > > > those or if those were even published or made avaiable to > > anyone) > > > > had > > > > > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra ayanamsha is > the > > > one > > > > to > > > > > be adopted. I never got the information as to how many of > these > > > > fine > > > > > individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced jyotish > with > > > any > > > > > success during their lifetime. > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri ayanamsha which > > is > > > > > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he has > mentioned > > > > that > > > > > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that this was > close > > to > > > > > what his astrological guru used/recommended and also close to > > the > > > > > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your time of > > birth > > > > > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. Karve, it seems > > > > looked > > > > > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and with lahiri > > > > > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students probably use > > > only > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a few so > > cannot > > > > tell > > > > > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > > > > > > > > > What we can say that the vocal majority on internet probably > > uses > > > > > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard reference, then > > the > > > > > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the participants > > > (less > > > > > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those that ask for > > > > readings > > > > > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be the > > experience > > > > in > > > > > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, express, > write). > > So > > > > one > > > > > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the astrologers > > > > (sorry > > > > > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a similar value. > > > This > > > > is > > > > > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > > > > > > > > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha does not work > > or > > > > does > > > > > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In fact > there > > > are > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been > quite > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and > > > work > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one > > or > > > > two > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results! > > > > > > > > > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and claims floating > > > > around > > > > > in the ocean of astrology about this or that being tge > absolute > > > > truth > > > > > in the field of astrology in general and statements such as > > > jyotish > > > > > is good for predicting events and tropical better at > describing > > > the > > > > > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier written > > > > articles, > > > > > this is more a reflection of the person and his background > who > > > then > > > > > went on to become an astrologer - the economist drawn to > > > > forecasting > > > > > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of the > diseases, > > > the > > > > > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the horoscope, the > > > > > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed through the > map. > > > > > > > > > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a few of > these > > > are > > > > > capable of giving such a rich description of the human > > > experience, > > > > > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the scope of > > > > comprehension > > > > > of any one individual, whether astrologer, jyotishi, > > > tarotomancer, > > > > > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa is used in > KP > > > > > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. It's up > to > > > the > > > > > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa with > > deg:min:sec > > > is > > > > > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, pp 1, 88- > 93) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Ji Amitji, > > > > > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of discussions > due > > > to > > > > > > differences it has been agreed that scietifically prudent > to > > > use > > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted has also > > > > > recommended > > > > > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > > > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research of Shri > > > K.N.Rao > > > > a > > > > > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amit_call wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. > > > > > > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > > > > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > > > > > > Please guide me. > > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! 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Guest guest Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Dear Amitiji, Apart from technicalities(like ayanamsa,sideral Astrology etc) due to developing nature of the subject of Astrology, even the users too have increased to such great numbers in Kaliyuga, as the procedures on timing of events as existing earlier and in old times have been discontinued.Now a days the importance of Panchang/Almanac considered as a journal of predictions(for mundane purposes) lost it's glory with the mushrooming of Astrologers in the present day context posing a threat to reliabilty and consistency.The interpretation of: In Kaliyuga only a few will be true astrologers and the best ones' pridictive power will only manifest to 25%" I do not remember the exact sloka but the meaning was same. might be viewed.As a result the Astrologer in the present day context is slowly substituting for a Psychologist.I can only view this change as the erosion in value of Astrology. Members may be having other views. krishnan amit_call <amit_call wrote: Dear All, I thank all the members for postings and throwing light on this Ayamansa confusion. This is accepted that Pridiction is one's own ability. Also in a magazine of astrology i read a sloka which says "In Kaliyuga only a few will be true astrologers and the best ones' pridictive power will only manifest to 25%" I do not remember the exact sloka but the meaning was same. Also i want to add that some time back i met a Nadi Reader. in Nadi i was amazed to see that they told my name,my parents name ,some educational background,present condition and a little more. also as per Nadi he made a chart and gave to me. This chart is same as i get using Lahiri and KP Ayamansa. Also one of my friend got a chance to meet a sidhha Purush in Bulandshahar(U.P.).He is a young sanyasi.Looking at face he said something about him..his problems and told that he was having Kaal Sarpa Dosha. I was very new to astrology at that time.I started reading abt KSD and found that there was really KSD in his chart. Now i see this chart is as per Lahiri Ayamansa. Other Ayamansa give no KSD. Well, its a matter of observation...... I have to observe in a time span which chart better explains my life and which charts Dashas confirms the timing of events. As i am new to astrology hence i was hesitating to adopt this approach. Also i sing with your lines "Intuition is great reliable tool". Thanks Sincerely Amit Kumar , Amitabh Shastri <amitabh_shastri> wrote: > Sorry for the delay in response. But you're right. It is the man behind the weapon who counts. The weapon is just a piece of metal, wood and other ingredients of which it is composed. > The difference between innimate and animate needs to be understood very clearly. > Best wishes for a happy and prosperous new year. > Amitabh Shastri > rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > > Yes -- that is my view too, fwiw. > > rr > > , "tw853" wrote: > > > > I hope one can use what WORKS for him as INDIVIDUAL astrologer, > while > > simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of others. > > > > Best regards, > > > > tw > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > wrote: > > > > > > I hope I am understanding you correctly, that your position is > that > > > no specific ayanamsha alone can explain all that astrology (as we > > > know it) explains. That there are more mysteries that lie, > Horatio, > > > between the heaven and earth? If so, then yes that is what I was > > > saying all along, namely, that there are divinators that > > successfully > > > use different ayanamshas, and some that do not even use > ayanamshas, > > > so no point in agonizing over which ayanamsha is the only > accurate > > > one. > > > > > > Pardon my crude and cruel analogy, but the aiming sights on a > rifle > > > while of tremendous help in improving the marksmanship, would > alone > > > not make one an expert marksman! Ayanamsha is like that 'sight' > > which > > > definitely is helpful if trained at the target carefully, > however, > > > the marksman still must effectively learn to hold the rifle and > > > improve their skills. > > > > > > Most practitioners (present company excepted of course!) in > > astrology > > > of any kind are at best figuring their way out of this dense > > forest, > > > even if they may not be brave enough to admit. Your sage advice > to > > > not make ayanamsha a big deal is well-given and finds accord in > my > > > own personal outlook. I respond only when I notice overt or > covert > > > insinuations that a given ayanamsha is somehow the best without > no > > > direct and ample proof for such, forthcoming. > > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > wrote: > > > > Hello Rohiniji, > > > > The Astronomical studies have confirmed ecliptical zodiac and > the > > > movements of the planets along with planets was never found to be > > > unform.So we have all confusions added to the changes being > > witnessed > > > in the planet earth due unpredicatable characterstics of > Nature.I > > do > > > not know whether I can put that even the science finds it > difficult > > > to say in precise nature.May be Ayanamsa correction is a specific > > > approach from the fixed zodiac of Aries.Westren Astrology based > on > > > accptable solar system too may be able to solve the riddles of > > human > > > life and anticipated events.Even we in our Astrology avoid > Neptune > > > and Pluto,westren Astrologers attribute great significance of > these > > > two outer planets.Still i believe that the kind of Shodasamasas > we > > > have developed can bring out comfortably various aspects of life > > > including the nature of old age through the aid of divisional > chart. > > > > Keeping these aspects in mind,probably it is appropriate till > > such > > > that we are not able to deny Ayanamsa,particularly Lahiri's > > Ayanamsa > > > as useful for our purposes but we do not discount other > approaches > > > and certainly not their efficacy in predictions. > > > > Certainly Astrology,particularly Vedic Astrology to unfold the > > the > > > future and past events will always remain to be connected with > > > intution and if not the sixth sense. > > > > In this we have umpteen examples including a 10year old British > > who > > > could recollect from her class rom lessons to say the most > unusual > > > and catsrophic events like Tsunami. > > > > Even Late B.V.raman makes it a point to refer to the accuracy > to > > > Brahma as the creator of universe. > > > > Iam sure our distinguished members may have some more valuble > > > suggestions on the subject. > > > > Thanx > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > tw853 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > > > > > > > I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture myself into > the > > > > highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa discussion. For myself > I > > > use > > > > new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting the personal > > > > preferences of others. > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > wrote: > > > > > Hello Amitji, > > > > > For some time I had the fortune of getting associated with > > > Phalit > > > > jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New Delhi. > > > > > In the committee constituted by the Govt of India even late > > Shri > > > > B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several vedic scholars > > from > > > > Benares,Haridwar and other places. > > > > > Even in these learned institutions research on the subjectof > > > > Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are guided through > > Prof > > > > Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India and several > > > other > > > > Govts too have supported the research and even built mini > jantar- > > > > mantars to calculate the movements of planets and study the > > motion > > > of > > > > earth.And these effects through research are getting published > in > > > > Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati university in > > India. > > > > > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of Lahiri > > Ayanamsa.I > > > > have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you want to be > sure > > > > before you infer as : > > > > > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' > > > > > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of Ayanamsa in Helio > > > > Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren Astrologers. > > > > > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu Predictive > > > > Astrology through various approaches of Ganith jyotish,we have > > > three > > > > different lagnas for harmonising the results arising out the > > study > > > of > > > > natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and mostly Moon > as > > > also > > > > lagna.This approach has made us to depend on various > mathematical > > > > calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a major factor of > > > study > > > > was taken up. > > > > > In the case of westren Astrologers and their philosophy in > > > handing > > > > over good results without elaborate rules and the approach of > > vedic > > > > Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve for > different > > > > sections of this great universe.We like or not the basic of our > > > > philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma Siddhantam. > > > > > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an approach > which > > is > > > > not deterministic but gives an opportunity for understanding > what > > > is > > > > not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is not possible. > > > > > I agree with you when you say: > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been > quite > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and > > > work > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one > > or > > > > two > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results > > > > > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional element where > > > some > > > > soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand predict any > > thing? > > > > > In India Astrology is making strides with the revival towards > > > Vedic > > > > understanding and to find it's relevance in modern times and in > > > > futuristic studies. > > > > > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri K.N Rao as my > > > great > > > > Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have ventured myself > in > > > to > > > > these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > > > > > Thanx > > > > > krishnan > > > > > rohiniranjan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Please do not be personally offended but I have a bit of > > problem > > > > > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years ago on his > > > > newslist, > > > > > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a conclusion (he > > had > > > > also > > > > > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') was derived. > > > Given > > > > > that there must be millions of jyotishis in India itself and > > the > > > > > population growing like a family of rabbits all over the > globe, > > > how > > > > > can one make a statement like that unless a survey was done. > It > > > is > > > > > his greatness that he eventually responded saying that > > somewhere > > > (I > > > > > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang makers (I > recall > > > less > > > > > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had > congregated > > > with > > > > > some govt. officials and through their deliberations (details > > of > > > > > which I would be curious to learn but have no clue where to > > find > > > > > those or if those were even published or made avaiable to > > anyone) > > > > had > > > > > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra ayanamsha is > the > > > one > > > > to > > > > > be adopted. I never got the information as to how many of > these > > > > fine > > > > > individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced jyotish > with > > > any > > > > > success during their lifetime. > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri ayanamsha which > > is > > > > > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he has > mentioned > > > > that > > > > > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that this was > close > > to > > > > > what his astrological guru used/recommended and also close to > > the > > > > > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your time of > > birth > > > > > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. Karve, it seems > > > > looked > > > > > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and with lahiri > > > > > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students probably use > > > only > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a few so > > cannot > > > > tell > > > > > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > > > > > > > > > What we can say that the vocal majority on internet probably > > uses > > > > > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard reference, then > > the > > > > > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the participants > > > (less > > > > > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those that ask for > > > > readings > > > > > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be the > > experience > > > > in > > > > > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, express, > write). > > So > > > > one > > > > > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the astrologers > > > > (sorry > > > > > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a similar value. > > > This > > > > is > > > > > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > > > > > > > > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha does not work > > or > > > > does > > > > > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In fact > there > > > are > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been > quite > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all and > > > work > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just one > > or > > > > two > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results! > > > > > > > > > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and claims floating > > > > around > > > > > in the ocean of astrology about this or that being tge > absolute > > > > truth > > > > > in the field of astrology in general and statements such as > > > jyotish > > > > > is good for predicting events and tropical better at > describing > > > the > > > > > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier written > > > > articles, > > > > > this is more a reflection of the person and his background > who > > > then > > > > > went on to become an astrologer - the economist drawn to > > > > forecasting > > > > > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of the > diseases, > > > the > > > > > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the horoscope, the > > > > > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed through the > map. > > > > > > > > > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a few of > these > > > are > > > > > capable of giving such a rich description of the human > > > experience, > > > > > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the scope of > > > > comprehension > > > > > of any one individual, whether astrologer, jyotishi, > > > tarotomancer, > > > > > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa is used in > KP > > > > > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. It's up > to > > > the > > > > > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa with > > deg:min:sec > > > is > > > > > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, pp 1, 88- > 93) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Ji Amitji, > > > > > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of discussions > due > > > to > > > > > > differences it has been agreed that scietifically prudent > to > > > use > > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted has also > > > > > recommended > > > > > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > > > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research of Shri > > > K.N.Rao > > > > a > > > > > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amit_call wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. > > > > > > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > > > > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > > > > > > Please guide me. > > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! 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Guest guest Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Dear Amit, This sounds fascinating! Would you care to share the birthdata for the nativity that had KSD only with Lahiri ayanamsha? Thanks RR , "amit_call" <amit_call> wrote: > > Dear All, > I thank all the members for postings and throwing light on this > Ayamansa confusion. > This is accepted that Pridiction is one's own ability. > Also in a magazine of astrology i read a sloka which says "In > Kaliyuga only a few will be true astrologers and the best ones' > pridictive power will only manifest to 25%" > I do not remember the exact sloka but the meaning was same. > Also i want to add that some time back i met a Nadi Reader. > in Nadi i was amazed to see that they told my name,my parents > name ,some educational background,present condition and a little more. > also as per Nadi he made a chart and gave to me. > This chart is same as i get using Lahiri and KP Ayamansa. > Also one of my friend got a chance to meet a sidhha Purush in > Bulandshahar(U.P.).He is a young sanyasi.Looking at face he said > something about him..his problems and told that he was having Kaal > Sarpa Dosha. > I was very new to astrology at that time.I started reading abt KSD > and found that there was really KSD in his chart. > Now i see this chart is as per Lahiri Ayamansa. > Other Ayamansa give no KSD. > Well, its a matter of observation...... > I have to observe in a time span which chart better explains my life > and which charts Dashas confirms the timing of events. > As i am new to astrology hence i was hesitating to adopt this > approach. > Also i sing with your lines "Intuition is great reliable tool". > Thanks > Sincerely > Amit Kumar > > > , Amitabh Shastri > <amitabh_shastri> wrote: > > Sorry for the delay in response. But you're right. It is the man > behind the weapon who counts. The weapon is just a piece of metal, > wood and other ingredients of which it is composed. > > The difference between innimate and animate needs to be understood > very clearly. > > Best wishes for a happy and prosperous new year. > > Amitabh Shastri > > rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > > > > > Yes -- that is my view too, fwiw. > > > > rr > > > > , "tw853" wrote: > > > > > > I hope one can use what WORKS for him as INDIVIDUAL astrologer, > > while > > > simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of others. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > tw > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I hope I am understanding you correctly, that your position is > > that > > > > no specific ayanamsha alone can explain all that astrology (as > we > > > > know it) explains. That there are more mysteries that lie, > > Horatio, > > > > between the heaven and earth? If so, then yes that is what I > was > > > > saying all along, namely, that there are divinators that > > > successfully > > > > use different ayanamshas, and some that do not even use > > ayanamshas, > > > > so no point in agonizing over which ayanamsha is the only > > accurate > > > > one. > > > > > > > > Pardon my crude and cruel analogy, but the aiming sights on a > > rifle > > > > while of tremendous help in improving the marksmanship, would > > alone > > > > not make one an expert marksman! Ayanamsha is like that 'sight' > > > which > > > > definitely is helpful if trained at the target carefully, > > however, > > > > the marksman still must effectively learn to hold the rifle and > > > > improve their skills. > > > > > > > > Most practitioners (present company excepted of course!) in > > > astrology > > > > of any kind are at best figuring their way out of this dense > > > forest, > > > > even if they may not be brave enough to admit. Your sage advice > > to > > > > not make ayanamsha a big deal is well-given and finds accord in > > my > > > > own personal outlook. I respond only when I notice overt or > > covert > > > > insinuations that a given ayanamsha is somehow the best without > > no > > > > direct and ample proof for such, forthcoming. > > > > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > wrote: > > > > > Hello Rohiniji, > > > > > The Astronomical studies have confirmed ecliptical zodiac and > > the > > > > movements of the planets along with planets was never found to > be > > > > unform.So we have all confusions added to the changes being > > > witnessed > > > > in the planet earth due unpredicatable characterstics of > > Nature.I > > > do > > > > not know whether I can put that even the science finds it > > difficult > > > > to say in precise nature.May be Ayanamsa correction is a > specific > > > > approach from the fixed zodiac of Aries.Westren Astrology based > > on > > > > accptable solar system too may be able to solve the riddles of > > > human > > > > life and anticipated events.Even we in our Astrology avoid > > Neptune > > > > and Pluto,westren Astrologers attribute great significance of > > these > > > > two outer planets.Still i believe that the kind of Shodasamasas > > we > > > > have developed can bring out comfortably various aspects of > life > > > > including the nature of old age through the aid of divisional > > chart. > > > > > Keeping these aspects in mind,probably it is appropriate till > > > such > > > > that we are not able to deny Ayanamsa,particularly Lahiri's > > > Ayanamsa > > > > as useful for our purposes but we do not discount other > > approaches > > > > and certainly not their efficacy in predictions. > > > > > Certainly Astrology,particularly Vedic Astrology to unfold > the > > > the > > > > future and past events will always remain to be connected with > > > > intution and if not the sixth sense. > > > > > In this we have umpteen examples including a 10year old > British > > > who > > > > could recollect from her class rom lessons to say the most > > unusual > > > > and catsrophic events like Tsunami. > > > > > Even Late B.V.raman makes it a point to refer to the accuracy > > to > > > > Brahma as the creator of universe. > > > > > Iam sure our distinguished members may have some more valuble > > > > suggestions on the subject. > > > > > Thanx > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > tw853 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > > > > > > > > > I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture myself into > > the > > > > > highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa discussion. For > myself > > I > > > > use > > > > > new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting the personal > > > > > preferences of others. > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hello Amitji, > > > > > > For some time I had the fortune of getting associated with > > > > Phalit > > > > > jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New Delhi. > > > > > > In the committee constituted by the Govt of India even late > > > Shri > > > > > B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several vedic scholars > > > from > > > > > Benares,Haridwar and other places. > > > > > > Even in these learned institutions research on the > subjectof > > > > > Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are guided > through > > > Prof > > > > > Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India and > several > > > > other > > > > > Govts too have supported the research and even built mini > > jantar- > > > > > mantars to calculate the movements of planets and study the > > > motion > > > > of > > > > > earth.And these effects through research are getting > published > > in > > > > > Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati university in > > > India. > > > > > > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of Lahiri > > > Ayanamsa.I > > > > > have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you want to be > > sure > > > > > before you infer as : > > > > > > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' > > > > > > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of Ayanamsa in > Helio > > > > > Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren Astrologers. > > > > > > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu Predictive > > > > > Astrology through various approaches of Ganith jyotish,we > have > > > > three > > > > > different lagnas for harmonising the results arising out the > > > study > > > > of > > > > > natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and mostly Moon > > as > > > > also > > > > > lagna.This approach has made us to depend on various > > mathematical > > > > > calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a major factor > of > > > > study > > > > > was taken up. > > > > > > In the case of westren Astrologers and their philosophy in > > > > handing > > > > > over good results without elaborate rules and the approach of > > > vedic > > > > > Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve for > > different > > > > > sections of this great universe.We like or not the basic of > our > > > > > philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma Siddhantam. > > > > > > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an approach > > which > > > is > > > > > not deterministic but gives an opportunity for understanding > > what > > > > is > > > > > not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is not > possible. > > > > > > I agree with you when you say: > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been > > quite > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all > and > > > > work > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just > one > > > or > > > > > two > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results > > > > > > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional element > where > > > > some > > > > > soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand predict any > > > thing? > > > > > > In India Astrology is making strides with the revival > towards > > > > Vedic > > > > > understanding and to find it's relevance in modern times and > in > > > > > futuristic studies. > > > > > > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri K.N Rao as > my > > > > great > > > > > Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have ventured > myself > > in > > > > to > > > > > these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > rohiniranjan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not be personally offended but I have a bit of > > > problem > > > > > > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years ago on his > > > > > newslist, > > > > > > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a conclusion > (he > > > had > > > > > also > > > > > > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') was > derived. > > > > Given > > > > > > that there must be millions of jyotishis in India itself > and > > > the > > > > > > population growing like a family of rabbits all over the > > globe, > > > > how > > > > > > can one make a statement like that unless a survey was > done. > > It > > > > is > > > > > > his greatness that he eventually responded saying that > > > somewhere > > > > (I > > > > > > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang makers (I > > recall > > > > less > > > > > > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had > > congregated > > > > with > > > > > > some govt. officials and through their deliberations > (details > > > of > > > > > > which I would be curious to learn but have no clue where to > > > find > > > > > > those or if those were even published or made avaiable to > > > anyone) > > > > > had > > > > > > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra ayanamsha is > > the > > > > one > > > > > to > > > > > > be adopted. I never got the information as to how many of > > these > > > > > fine > > > > > > individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced jyotish > > with > > > > any > > > > > > success during their lifetime. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri ayanamsha > which > > > is > > > > > > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he has > > mentioned > > > > > that > > > > > > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that this was > > close > > > to > > > > > > what his astrological guru used/recommended and also close > to > > > the > > > > > > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your time of > > > birth > > > > > > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. Karve, it > seems > > > > > looked > > > > > > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and with > lahiri > > > > > > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students probably > use > > > > only > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a few so > > > cannot > > > > > tell > > > > > > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > > > > > > > > > > > What we can say that the vocal majority on internet > probably > > > uses > > > > > > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard reference, > then > > > the > > > > > > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the > participants > > > > (less > > > > > > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those that ask > for > > > > > readings > > > > > > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be the > > > experience > > > > > in > > > > > > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, express, > > write). > > > So > > > > > one > > > > > > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the > astrologers > > > > > (sorry > > > > > > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a similar > value. > > > > This > > > > > is > > > > > > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha does not > work > > > or > > > > > does > > > > > > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In fact > > there > > > > are > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been > > quite > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all > and > > > > work > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just > one > > > or > > > > > two > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results! > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and claims > floating > > > > > around > > > > > > in the ocean of astrology about this or that being tge > > absolute > > > > > truth > > > > > > in the field of astrology in general and statements such as > > > > jyotish > > > > > > is good for predicting events and tropical better at > > describing > > > > the > > > > > > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier written > > > > > articles, > > > > > > this is more a reflection of the person and his background > > who > > > > then > > > > > > went on to become an astrologer - the economist drawn to > > > > > forecasting > > > > > > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of the > > diseases, > > > > the > > > > > > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the horoscope, the > > > > > > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed through the > > map. > > > > > > > > > > > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a few of > > these > > > > are > > > > > > capable of giving such a rich description of the human > > > > experience, > > > > > > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the scope of > > > > > comprehension > > > > > > of any one individual, whether astrologer, jyotishi, > > > > tarotomancer, > > > > > > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa is used > in > > KP > > > > > > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. It's up > > to > > > > the > > > > > > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa with > > > deg:min:sec > > > > is > > > > > > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, pp 1, 88- > > 93) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Ji Amitji, > > > > > > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of discussions > > due > > > > to > > > > > > > differences it has been agreed that scietifically prudent > > to > > > > use > > > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted has also > > > > > > recommended > > > > > > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > > > > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research of Shri > > > > K.N.Rao > > > > > a > > > > > > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amit_call wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. > > > > > > > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > > > > > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > > > > > > > Please guide me. > > > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! 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Guest guest Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Rohini ji The details of native are: DOB:10-Jun-1977 Time:04:00 A.M. Place:Aligarh,U.P..27N54 78E04 The chart casted using Lahiri/KP ayamansa gives KSD while using Raman Ayamansa it doesn't. My Understanding of KSD is when all the Planets are between Rahu and Ketu. someWhere i read if Any planet joins Ketu or Rahu ..then it is not KSD.In that case it will not be KSD. If wrong pls correct me. Sincerely Amit kUmar , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > Dear Amit, > > This sounds fascinating! Would you care to share the birthdata for > the nativity that had KSD only with Lahiri ayanamsha? > > Thanks > > RR > > , "amit_call" <amit_call> > wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > I thank all the members for postings and throwing light on this > > Ayamansa confusion. > > This is accepted that Pridiction is one's own ability. > > Also in a magazine of astrology i read a sloka which says "In > > Kaliyuga only a few will be true astrologers and the best ones' > > pridictive power will only manifest to 25%" > > I do not remember the exact sloka but the meaning was same. > > Also i want to add that some time back i met a Nadi Reader. > > in Nadi i was amazed to see that they told my name,my parents > > name ,some educational background,present condition and a little > more. > > also as per Nadi he made a chart and gave to me. > > This chart is same as i get using Lahiri and KP Ayamansa. > > Also one of my friend got a chance to meet a sidhha Purush in > > Bulandshahar(U.P.).He is a young sanyasi.Looking at face he said > > something about him..his problems and told that he was having Kaal > > Sarpa Dosha. > > I was very new to astrology at that time.I started reading abt KSD > > and found that there was really KSD in his chart. > > Now i see this chart is as per Lahiri Ayamansa. > > Other Ayamansa give no KSD. > > Well, its a matter of observation...... > > I have to observe in a time span which chart better explains my > life > > and which charts Dashas confirms the timing of events. > > As i am new to astrology hence i was hesitating to adopt this > > approach. > > Also i sing with your lines "Intuition is great reliable tool". > > Thanks > > Sincerely > > Amit Kumar > > > > > > , Amitabh Shastri > > <amitabh_shastri> wrote: > > > Sorry for the delay in response. But you're right. It is the man > > behind the weapon who counts. The weapon is just a piece of metal, > > wood and other ingredients of which it is composed. > > > The difference between innimate and animate needs to be > understood > > very clearly. > > > Best wishes for a happy and prosperous new year. > > > Amitabh Shastri > > > rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes -- that is my view too, fwiw. > > > > > > rr > > > > > > , "tw853" wrote: > > > > > > > > I hope one can use what WORKS for him as INDIVIDUAL astrologer, > > > while > > > > simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of others. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I hope I am understanding you correctly, that your position > is > > > that > > > > > no specific ayanamsha alone can explain all that astrology > (as > > we > > > > > know it) explains. That there are more mysteries that lie, > > > Horatio, > > > > > between the heaven and earth? If so, then yes that is what I > > was > > > > > saying all along, namely, that there are divinators that > > > > successfully > > > > > use different ayanamshas, and some that do not even use > > > ayanamshas, > > > > > so no point in agonizing over which ayanamsha is the only > > > accurate > > > > > one. > > > > > > > > > > Pardon my crude and cruel analogy, but the aiming sights on a > > > rifle > > > > > while of tremendous help in improving the marksmanship, would > > > alone > > > > > not make one an expert marksman! Ayanamsha is like > that 'sight' > > > > which > > > > > definitely is helpful if trained at the target carefully, > > > however, > > > > > the marksman still must effectively learn to hold the rifle > and > > > > > improve their skills. > > > > > > > > > > Most practitioners (present company excepted of course!) in > > > > astrology > > > > > of any kind are at best figuring their way out of this dense > > > > forest, > > > > > even if they may not be brave enough to admit. Your sage > advice > > > to > > > > > not make ayanamsha a big deal is well-given and finds accord > in > > > my > > > > > own personal outlook. I respond only when I notice overt or > > > covert > > > > > insinuations that a given ayanamsha is somehow the best > without > > > no > > > > > direct and ample proof for such, forthcoming. > > > > > > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hello Rohiniji, > > > > > > The Astronomical studies have confirmed ecliptical zodiac > and > > > the > > > > > movements of the planets along with planets was never found > to > > be > > > > > unform.So we have all confusions added to the changes being > > > > witnessed > > > > > in the planet earth due unpredicatable characterstics of > > > Nature.I > > > > do > > > > > not know whether I can put that even the science finds it > > > difficult > > > > > to say in precise nature.May be Ayanamsa correction is a > > specific > > > > > approach from the fixed zodiac of Aries.Westren Astrology > based > > > on > > > > > accptable solar system too may be able to solve the riddles > of > > > > human > > > > > life and anticipated events.Even we in our Astrology avoid > > > Neptune > > > > > and Pluto,westren Astrologers attribute great significance of > > > these > > > > > two outer planets.Still i believe that the kind of > Shodasamasas > > > we > > > > > have developed can bring out comfortably various aspects of > > life > > > > > including the nature of old age through the aid of divisional > > > chart. > > > > > > Keeping these aspects in mind,probably it is appropriate > till > > > > such > > > > > that we are not able to deny Ayanamsa,particularly Lahiri's > > > > Ayanamsa > > > > > as useful for our purposes but we do not discount other > > > approaches > > > > > and certainly not their efficacy in predictions. > > > > > > Certainly Astrology,particularly Vedic Astrology to unfold > > the > > > > the > > > > > future and past events will always remain to be connected > with > > > > > intution and if not the sixth sense. > > > > > > In this we have umpteen examples including a 10year old > > British > > > > who > > > > > could recollect from her class rom lessons to say the most > > > unusual > > > > > and catsrophic events like Tsunami. > > > > > > Even Late B.V.raman makes it a point to refer to the > accuracy > > > to > > > > > Brahma as the creator of universe. > > > > > > Iam sure our distinguished members may have some more > valuble > > > > > suggestions on the subject. > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > tw853 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > > > > > > > > > > > I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture myself > into > > > the > > > > > > highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa discussion. For > > myself > > > I > > > > > use > > > > > > new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting the > personal > > > > > > preferences of others. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hello Amitji, > > > > > > > For some time I had the fortune of getting associated > with > > > > > Phalit > > > > > > jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New Delhi. > > > > > > > In the committee constituted by the Govt of India even > late > > > > Shri > > > > > > B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several vedic > scholars > > > > from > > > > > > Benares,Haridwar and other places. > > > > > > > Even in these learned institutions research on the > > subjectof > > > > > > Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are guided > > through > > > > Prof > > > > > > Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India and > > several > > > > > other > > > > > > Govts too have supported the research and even built mini > > > jantar- > > > > > > mantars to calculate the movements of planets and study the > > > > motion > > > > > of > > > > > > earth.And these effects through research are getting > > published > > > in > > > > > > Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati university > in > > > > India. > > > > > > > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of Lahiri > > > > Ayanamsa.I > > > > > > have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you want to > be > > > sure > > > > > > before you infer as : > > > > > > > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' > > > > > > > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of Ayanamsa in > > Helio > > > > > > Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren Astrologers. > > > > > > > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu > Predictive > > > > > > Astrology through various approaches of Ganith jyotish,we > > have > > > > > three > > > > > > different lagnas for harmonising the results arising out > the > > > > study > > > > > of > > > > > > natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and mostly > Moon > > > as > > > > > also > > > > > > lagna.This approach has made us to depend on various > > > mathematical > > > > > > calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a major factor > > of > > > > > study > > > > > > was taken up. > > > > > > > In the case of westren Astrologers and their philosophy > in > > > > > handing > > > > > > over good results without elaborate rules and the approach > of > > > > vedic > > > > > > Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve for > > > different > > > > > > sections of this great universe.We like or not the basic of > > our > > > > > > philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma Siddhantam. > > > > > > > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an approach > > > which > > > > is > > > > > > not deterministic but gives an opportunity for > understanding > > > what > > > > > is > > > > > > not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is not > > possible. > > > > > > > I agree with you when you say: > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been > > > quite > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all > > and > > > > > work > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just > > one > > > > or > > > > > > two > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results > > > > > > > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional element > > where > > > > > some > > > > > > soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand predict > any > > > > thing? > > > > > > > In India Astrology is making strides with the revival > > towards > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > understanding and to find it's relevance in modern times > and > > in > > > > > > futuristic studies. > > > > > > > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri K.N Rao > as > > my > > > > > great > > > > > > Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have ventured > > myself > > > in > > > > > to > > > > > > these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > rohiniranjan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not be personally offended but I have a bit of > > > > problem > > > > > > > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years ago on > his > > > > > > newslist, > > > > > > > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a conclusion > > (he > > > > had > > > > > > also > > > > > > > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') was > > derived. > > > > > Given > > > > > > > that there must be millions of jyotishis in India itself > > and > > > > the > > > > > > > population growing like a family of rabbits all over the > > > globe, > > > > > how > > > > > > > can one make a statement like that unless a survey was > > done. > > > It > > > > > is > > > > > > > his greatness that he eventually responded saying that > > > > somewhere > > > > > (I > > > > > > > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang makers (I > > > recall > > > > > less > > > > > > > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had > > > congregated > > > > > with > > > > > > > some govt. officials and through their deliberations > > (details > > > > of > > > > > > > which I would be curious to learn but have no clue where > to > > > > find > > > > > > > those or if those were even published or made avaiable to > > > > anyone) > > > > > > had > > > > > > > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra ayanamsha > is > > > the > > > > > one > > > > > > to > > > > > > > be adopted. I never got the information as to how many of > > > these > > > > > > fine > > > > > > > individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced jyotish > > > with > > > > > any > > > > > > > success during their lifetime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri ayanamsha > > which > > > > is > > > > > > > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he has > > > mentioned > > > > > > that > > > > > > > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that this was > > > close > > > > to > > > > > > > what his astrological guru used/recommended and also > close > > to > > > > the > > > > > > > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your time > of > > > > birth > > > > > > > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. Karve, it > > seems > > > > > > looked > > > > > > > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and with > > lahiri > > > > > > > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students probably > > use > > > > > only > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a few so > > > > cannot > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we can say that the vocal majority on internet > > probably > > > > uses > > > > > > > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard reference, > > then > > > > the > > > > > > > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the > > participants > > > > > (less > > > > > > > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those that ask > > for > > > > > > readings > > > > > > > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be the > > > > experience > > > > > > in > > > > > > > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, express, > > > write). > > > > So > > > > > > one > > > > > > > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the > > astrologers > > > > > > (sorry > > > > > > > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a similar > > value. > > > > > This > > > > > > is > > > > > > > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha does not > > work > > > > or > > > > > > does > > > > > > > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In fact > > > there > > > > > are > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been > > > quite > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all > > and > > > > > work > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just > > one > > > > or > > > > > > two > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and claims > > floating > > > > > > around > > > > > > > in the ocean of astrology about this or that being tge > > > absolute > > > > > > truth > > > > > > > in the field of astrology in general and statements such > as > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > is good for predicting events and tropical better at > > > describing > > > > > the > > > > > > > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier > written > > > > > > articles, > > > > > > > this is more a reflection of the person and his > background > > > who > > > > > then > > > > > > > went on to become an astrologer - the economist drawn to > > > > > > forecasting > > > > > > > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of the > > > diseases, > > > > > the > > > > > > > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the horoscope, > the > > > > > > > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed through > the > > > map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a few of > > > these > > > > > are > > > > > > > capable of giving such a rich description of the human > > > > > experience, > > > > > > > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the scope of > > > > > > comprehension > > > > > > > of any one individual, whether astrologer, jyotishi, > > > > > tarotomancer, > > > > > > > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa is used > > in > > > KP > > > > > > > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. It's > up > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa with > > > > deg:min:sec > > > > > is > > > > > > > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, pp 1, > 88- > > > 93) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > krishnan > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ji Amitji, > > > > > > > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of > discussions > > > due > > > > > to > > > > > > > > differences it has been agreed that scietifically > prudent > > > to > > > > > use > > > > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted has > also > > > > > > > recommended > > > > > > > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > > > > > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research of > Shri > > > > > K.N.Rao > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amit_call wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. > > > > > > > > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > > > > > > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > > > > > > > > Please guide me. > > > > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! 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Guest guest Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Dear Amit, For KSD planets must be moving towards Rahu. In reverse case it is said to be KAD. With best wishes, Amitabh Shastri amit_call <amit_call wrote: Rohini ji The details of native are: DOB:10-Jun-1977 Time:04:00 A.M. Place:Aligarh,U.P..27N54 78E04 The chart casted using Lahiri/KP ayamansa gives KSD while using Raman Ayamansa it doesn't. My Understanding of KSD is when all the Planets are between Rahu and Ketu. someWhere i read if Any planet joins Ketu or Rahu ..then it is not KSD.In that case it will not be KSD. If wrong pls correct me. Sincerely Amit kUmar , "rohiniranjan" wrote: > > Dear Amit, > > This sounds fascinating! Would you care to share the birthdata for > the nativity that had KSD only with Lahiri ayanamsha? > > Thanks > > RR > > , "amit_call" > wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > I thank all the members for postings and throwing light on this > > Ayamansa confusion. > > This is accepted that Pridiction is one's own ability. > > Also in a magazine of astrology i read a sloka which says "In > > Kaliyuga only a few will be true astrologers and the best ones' > > pridictive power will only manifest to 25%" > > I do not remember the exact sloka but the meaning was same. > > Also i want to add that some time back i met a Nadi Reader. > > in Nadi i was amazed to see that they told my name,my parents > > name ,some educational background,present condition and a little > more. > > also as per Nadi he made a chart and gave to me. > > This chart is same as i get using Lahiri and KP Ayamansa. > > Also one of my friend got a chance to meet a sidhha Purush in > > Bulandshahar(U.P.).He is a young sanyasi.Looking at face he said > > something about him..his problems and told that he was having Kaal > > Sarpa Dosha. > > I was very new to astrology at that time.I started reading abt KSD > > and found that there was really KSD in his chart. > > Now i see this chart is as per Lahiri Ayamansa. > > Other Ayamansa give no KSD. > > Well, its a matter of observation...... > > I have to observe in a time span which chart better explains my > life > > and which charts Dashas confirms the timing of events. > > As i am new to astrology hence i was hesitating to adopt this > > approach. > > Also i sing with your lines "Intuition is great reliable tool". > > Thanks > > Sincerely > > Amit Kumar > > > > > > , Amitabh Shastri > > wrote: > > > Sorry for the delay in response. But you're right. It is the man > > behind the weapon who counts. The weapon is just a piece of metal, > > wood and other ingredients of which it is composed. > > > The difference between innimate and animate needs to be > understood > > very clearly. > > > Best wishes for a happy and prosperous new year. > > > Amitabh Shastri > > > rohiniranjan wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes -- that is my view too, fwiw. > > > > > > rr > > > > > > , "tw853" wrote: > > > > > > > > I hope one can use what WORKS for him as INDIVIDUAL astrologer, > > > while > > > > simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of others. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I hope I am understanding you correctly, that your position > is > > > that > > > > > no specific ayanamsha alone can explain all that astrology > (as > > we > > > > > know it) explains. That there are more mysteries that lie, > > > Horatio, > > > > > between the heaven and earth? If so, then yes that is what I > > was > > > > > saying all along, namely, that there are divinators that > > > > successfully > > > > > use different ayanamshas, and some that do not even use > > > ayanamshas, > > > > > so no point in agonizing over which ayanamsha is the only > > > accurate > > > > > one. > > > > > > > > > > Pardon my crude and cruel analogy, but the aiming sights on a > > > rifle > > > > > while of tremendous help in improving the marksmanship, would > > > alone > > > > > not make one an expert marksman! Ayanamsha is like > that 'sight' > > > > which > > > > > definitely is helpful if trained at the target carefully, > > > however, > > > > > the marksman still must effectively learn to hold the rifle > and > > > > > improve their skills. > > > > > > > > > > Most practitioners (present company excepted of course!) in > > > > astrology > > > > > of any kind are at best figuring their way out of this dense > > > > forest, > > > > > even if they may not be brave enough to admit. Your sage > advice > > > to > > > > > not make ayanamsha a big deal is well-given and finds accord > in > > > my > > > > > own personal outlook. I respond only when I notice overt or > > > covert > > > > > insinuations that a given ayanamsha is somehow the best > without > > > no > > > > > direct and ample proof for such, forthcoming. > > > > > > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hello Rohiniji, > > > > > > The Astronomical studies have confirmed ecliptical zodiac > and > > > the > > > > > movements of the planets along with planets was never found > to > > be > > > > > unform.So we have all confusions added to the changes being > > > > witnessed > > > > > in the planet earth due unpredicatable characterstics of > > > Nature.I > > > > do > > > > > not know whether I can put that even the science finds it > > > difficult > > > > > to say in precise nature.May be Ayanamsa correction is a > > specific > > > > > approach from the fixed zodiac of Aries.Westren Astrology > based > > > on > > > > > accptable solar system too may be able to solve the riddles > of > > > > human > > > > > life and anticipated events.Even we in our Astrology avoid > > > Neptune > > > > > and Pluto,westren Astrologers attribute great significance of > > > these > > > > > two outer planets.Still i believe that the kind of > Shodasamasas > > > we > > > > > have developed can bring out comfortably various aspects of > > life > > > > > including the nature of old age through the aid of divisional > > > chart. > > > > > > Keeping these aspects in mind,probably it is appropriate > till > > > > such > > > > > that we are not able to deny Ayanamsa,particularly Lahiri's > > > > Ayanamsa > > > > > as useful for our purposes but we do not discount other > > > approaches > > > > > and certainly not their efficacy in predictions. > > > > > > Certainly Astrology,particularly Vedic Astrology to unfold > > the > > > > the > > > > > future and past events will always remain to be connected > with > > > > > intution and if not the sixth sense. > > > > > > In this we have umpteen examples including a 10year old > > British > > > > who > > > > > could recollect from her class rom lessons to say the most > > > unusual > > > > > and catsrophic events like Tsunami. > > > > > > Even Late B.V.raman makes it a point to refer to the > accuracy > > > to > > > > > Brahma as the creator of universe. > > > > > > Iam sure our distinguished members may have some more > valuble > > > > > suggestions on the subject. > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > tw853 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > > > > > > > > > > > I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture myself > into > > > the > > > > > > highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa discussion. For > > myself > > > I > > > > > use > > > > > > new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting the > personal > > > > > > preferences of others. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hello Amitji, > > > > > > > For some time I had the fortune of getting associated > with > > > > > Phalit > > > > > > jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New Delhi. > > > > > > > In the committee constituted by the Govt of India even > late > > > > Shri > > > > > > B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several vedic > scholars > > > > from > > > > > > Benares,Haridwar and other places. > > > > > > > Even in these learned institutions research on the > > subjectof > > > > > > Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are guided > > through > > > > Prof > > > > > > Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India and > > several > > > > > other > > > > > > Govts too have supported the research and even built mini > > > jantar- > > > > > > mantars to calculate the movements of planets and study the > > > > motion > > > > > of > > > > > > earth.And these effects through research are getting > > published > > > in > > > > > > Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati university > in > > > > India. > > > > > > > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of Lahiri > > > > Ayanamsa.I > > > > > > have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you want to > be > > > sure > > > > > > before you infer as : > > > > > > > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' > > > > > > > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of Ayanamsa in > > Helio > > > > > > Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren Astrologers. > > > > > > > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu > Predictive > > > > > > Astrology through various approaches of Ganith jyotish,we > > have > > > > > three > > > > > > different lagnas for harmonising the results arising out > the > > > > study > > > > > of > > > > > > natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and mostly > Moon > > > as > > > > > also > > > > > > lagna.This approach has made us to depend on various > > > mathematical > > > > > > calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a major factor > > of > > > > > study > > > > > > was taken up. > > > > > > > In the case of westren Astrologers and their philosophy > in > > > > > handing > > > > > > over good results without elaborate rules and the approach > of > > > > vedic > > > > > > Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve for > > > different > > > > > > sections of this great universe.We like or not the basic of > > our > > > > > > philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma Siddhantam. > > > > > > > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an approach > > > which > > > > is > > > > > > not deterministic but gives an opportunity for > understanding > > > what > > > > > is > > > > > > not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is not > > possible. > > > > > > > I agree with you when you say: > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been > > > quite > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all > > and > > > > > work > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just > > one > > > > or > > > > > > two > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results > > > > > > > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional element > > where > > > > > some > > > > > > soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand predict > any > > > > thing? > > > > > > > In India Astrology is making strides with the revival > > towards > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > understanding and to find it's relevance in modern times > and > > in > > > > > > futuristic studies. > > > > > > > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri K.N Rao > as > > my > > > > > great > > > > > > Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have ventured > > myself > > > in > > > > > to > > > > > > these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > rohiniranjan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not be personally offended but I have a bit of > > > > problem > > > > > > > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years ago on > his > > > > > > newslist, > > > > > > > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a conclusion > > (he > > > > had > > > > > > also > > > > > > > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') was > > derived. > > > > > Given > > > > > > > that there must be millions of jyotishis in India itself > > and > > > > the > > > > > > > population growing like a family of rabbits all over the > > > globe, > > > > > how > > > > > > > can one make a statement like that unless a survey was > > done. > > > It > > > > > is > > > > > > > his greatness that he eventually responded saying that > > > > somewhere > > > > > (I > > > > > > > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang makers (I > > > recall > > > > > less > > > > > > > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had > > > congregated > > > > > with > > > > > > > some govt. officials and through their deliberations > > (details > > > > of > > > > > > > which I would be curious to learn but have no clue where > to > > > > find > > > > > > > those or if those were even published or made avaiable to > > > > anyone) > > > > > > had > > > > > > > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra ayanamsha > is > > > the > > > > > one > > > > > > to > > > > > > > be adopted. I never got the information as to how many of > > > these > > > > > > fine > > > > > > > individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced jyotish > > > with > > > > > any > > > > > > > success during their lifetime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri ayanamsha > > which > > > > is > > > > > > > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he has > > > mentioned > > > > > > that > > > > > > > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that this was > > > close > > > > to > > > > > > > what his astrological guru used/recommended and also > close > > to > > > > the > > > > > > > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your time > of > > > > birth > > > > > > > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. Karve, it > > seems > > > > > > looked > > > > > > > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and with > > lahiri > > > > > > > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students probably > > use > > > > > only > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a few so > > > > cannot > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we can say that the vocal majority on internet > > probably > > > > uses > > > > > > > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard reference, > > then > > > > the > > > > > > > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the > > participants > > > > > (less > > > > > > > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those that ask > > for > > > > > > readings > > > > > > > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be the > > > > experience > > > > > > in > > > > > > > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, express, > > > write). > > > > So > > > > > > one > > > > > > > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the > > astrologers > > > > > > (sorry > > > > > > > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a similar > > value. > > > > > This > > > > > > is > > > > > > > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha does not > > work > > > > or > > > > > > does > > > > > > > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In fact > > > there > > > > > are > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been > > > quite > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all > > and > > > > > work > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just > > one > > > > or > > > > > > two > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and claims > > floating > > > > > > around > > > > > > > in the ocean of astrology about this or that being tge > > > absolute > > > > > > truth > > > > > > > in the field of astrology in general and statements such > as > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > is good for predicting events and tropical better at > > > describing > > > > > the > > > > > > > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier > written > > > > > > articles, > > > > > > > this is more a reflection of the person and his > background > > > who > > > > > then > > > > > > > went on to become an astrologer - the economist drawn to > > > > > > forecasting > > > > > > > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of the > > > diseases, > > > > > the > > > > > > > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the horoscope, > the > > > > > > > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed through > the > > > map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a few of > > > these > > > > > are > > > > > > > capable of giving such a rich description of the human > > > > > experience, > > > > > > > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the scope of > > > > > > comprehension > > > > > > > of any one individual, whether astrologer, jyotishi, > > > > > tarotomancer, > > > > > > > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa is used > > in > > > KP > > > > > > > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. It's > up > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa with > > > > deg:min:sec > > > > > is > > > > > > > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, pp 1, > 88- > > > 93) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > krishnan > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ji Amitji, > > > > > > > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of > discussions > > > due > > > > > to > > > > > > > > differences it has been agreed that scietifically > prudent > > > to > > > > > use > > > > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted has > also > > > > > > > recommended > > > > > > > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > > > > > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research of > Shri > > > > > K.N.Rao > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amit_call wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. > > > > > > > > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > > > > > > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > > > > > > > > Please guide me. > > > > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL ! ~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been === message truncated === ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 A slight amendment - all planets must be placed between Rahu and Ketu and moving towards Rahu. Amitabh Shastri <amitabh_shastri wrote:To: Amitabh Shastri Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:10:13 +0000 (GMT) Re: Ayamansa Confusion Dear Amit, For KSD planets must be moving towards Rahu. In reverse case it is said to be KAD. With best wishes, Amitabh Shastri amit_call wrote: Rohini ji The details of native are: DOB:10-Jun-1977 Time:04:00 A.M. Place:Aligarh,U.P..27N54 78E04 The chart casted using Lahiri/KP ayamansa gives KSD while using Raman Ayamansa it doesn't. My Understanding of KSD is when all the Planets are between Rahu and Ketu. someWhere i read if Any planet joins Ketu or Rahu ..then it is not KSD.In that case it will not be KSD. If wrong pls correct me. Sincerely Amit kUmar , "rohiniranjan" wrote: > > Dear Amit, > > This sounds fascinating! Would you care to share the birthdata for > the nativity that had KSD only with Lahiri ayanamsha? > > Thanks > > RR > > , "amit_call" > wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > I thank all the members for postings and throwing light on this > > Ayamansa confusion. > > This is accepted that Pridiction is one's own ability. > > Also in a magazine of astrology i read a sloka which says "In > > Kaliyuga only a few will be true astrologers and the best ones' > > pridictive power will only manifest to 25%" > > I do not remember the exact sloka but the meaning was same. > > Also i want to add that some time back i met a Nadi Reader. > > in Nadi i was amazed to see that they told my name,my parents > > name ,some educational background,present condition and a little > more. > > also as per Nadi he made a chart and gave to me. > > This chart is same as i get using Lahiri and KP Ayamansa. > > Also one of my friend got a chance to meet a sidhha Purush in > > Bulandshahar(U.P.).He is a young sanyasi.Looking at face he said > > something about him..his problems and told that he was having Kaal > > Sarpa Dosha. > > I was very new to astrology at that time.I started reading abt KSD > > and found that there was really KSD in his chart. > > Now i see this chart is as per Lahiri Ayamansa. > > Other Ayamansa give no KSD. > > Well, its a matter of observation...... > > I have to observe in a time span which chart better explains my > life > > and which charts Dashas confirms the timing of events. > > As i am new to astrology hence i was hesitating to adopt this > > approach. > > Also i sing with your lines "Intuition is great reliable tool". > > Thanks > > Sincerely > > Amit Kumar > > > > > > , Amitabh Shastri > > wrote: > > > Sorry for the delay in response. But you're right. It is the man > > behind the weapon who counts. The weapon is just a piece of metal, > > wood and other ingredients of which it is composed. > > > The difference between innimate and animate needs to be > understood > > very clearly. > > > Best wishes for a happy and prosperous new year. > > > Amitabh Shastri > > > rohiniranjan wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes -- that is my view too, fwiw. > > > > > > rr > > > > > > , "tw853" wrote: > > > > > > > > I hope one can use what WORKS for him as INDIVIDUAL astrologer, > > > while > > > > simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of others. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I hope I am understanding you correctly, that your position > is > > > that > > > > > no specific ayanamsha alone can explain all that astrology > (as > > we > > > > > know it) explains. That there are more mysteries that lie, > > > Horatio, > > > > > between the heaven and earth? If so, then yes that is what I > > was > > > > > saying all along, namely, that there are divinators that > > > > successfully > > > > > use different ayanamshas, and some that do not even use > > > ayanamshas, > > > > > so no point in agonizing over which ayanamsha is the only > > > accurate > > > > > one. > > > > > > > > > > Pardon my crude and cruel analogy, but the aiming sights on a > > > rifle > > > > > while of tremendous help in improving the marksmanship, would > > > alone > > > > > not make one an expert marksman! Ayanamsha is like > that 'sight' > > > > which > > > > > definitely is helpful if trained at the target carefully, > > > however, > > > > > the marksman still must effectively learn to hold the rifle > and > > > > > improve their skills. > > > > > > > > > > Most practitioners (present company excepted of course!) in > > > > astrology > > > > > of any kind are at best figuring their way out of this dense > > > > forest, > > > > > even if they may not be brave enough to admit. Your sage > advice > > > to > > > > > not make ayanamsha a big deal is well-given and finds accord > in > > > my > > > > > own personal outlook. I respond only when I notice overt or > > > covert > > > > > insinuations that a given ayanamsha is somehow the best > without > > > no > > > > > direct and ample proof for such, forthcoming. > > > > > > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hello Rohiniji, > > > > > > The Astronomical studies have confirmed ecliptical zodiac > and > > > the > > > > > movements of the planets along with planets was never found > to > > be > > > > > unform.So we have all confusions added to the changes being > > > > witnessed > > > > > in the planet earth due unpredicatable characterstics of > > > Nature.I > > > > do > > > > > not know whether I can put that even the science finds it > > > difficult > > > > > to say in precise nature.May be Ayanamsa correction is a > > specific > > > > > approach from the fixed zodiac of Aries.Westren Astrology > based > > > on > > > > > accptable solar system too may be able to solve the riddles > of > > > > human > > > > > life and anticipated events.Even we in our Astrology avoid > > > Neptune > > > > > and Pluto,westren Astrologers attribute great significance of > > > these > > > > > two outer planets.Still i believe that the kind of > Shodasamasas > > > we > > > > > have developed can bring out comfortably various aspects of > > life > > > > > including the nature of old age through the aid of divisional > > > chart. > > > > > > Keeping these aspects in mind,probably it is appropriate > till > > > > such > > > > > that we are not able to deny Ayanamsa,particularly Lahiri's > > > > Ayanamsa > > > > > as useful for our purposes but we do not discount other > > > approaches > > > > > and certainly not their efficacy in predictions. > > > > > > Certainly Astrology,particularly Vedic Astrology to unfold > > the > > > > the > > > > > future and past events will always remain to be connected > with > > > > > intution and if not the sixth sense. > > > > > > In this we have umpteen examples including a 10year old > > British > > > > who > > > > > could recollect from her class rom lessons to say the most > > > unusual > > > > > and catsrophic events like Tsunami. > > > > > > Even Late B.V.raman makes it a point to refer to the > accuracy > > > to > > > > > Brahma as the creator of universe. > > > > > > Iam sure our distinguished members may have some more > valuble > > > > > suggestions on the subject. > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > tw853 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > > > > > > > > > > > I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture myself > into > > > the > > > > > > highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa discussion. For > > myself > > > I > > > > > use > > > > > > new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting the > personal > > > > > > preferences of others. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hello Amitji, > > > > > > > For some time I had the fortune of getting associated > with > > > > > Phalit > > > > > > jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New Delhi. > > > > > > > In the committee constituted by the Govt of India even > late > > > > Shri > > > > > > B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several vedic > scholars > > > > from > > > > > > Benares,Haridwar and other places. > > > > > > > Even in these learned institutions research on the > > subjectof > > > > > > Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are guided > > through > > > > Prof > > > > > > Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India and > > several > > > > > other > > > > > > Govts too have supported the research and even built mini > > > jantar- > > > > > > mantars to calculate the movements of planets and study the > > > > motion > > > > > of > > > > > > earth.And these effects through research are getting > > published > > > in > > > > > > Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati university > in > > > > India. > > > > > > > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of Lahiri > > > > Ayanamsa.I > > > > > > have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you want to > be > > > sure > > > > > > before you infer as : > > > > > > > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' > > > > > > > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of Ayanamsa in > > Helio > > > > > > Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren Astrologers. > > > > > > > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu > Predictive > > > > > > Astrology through various approaches of Ganith jyotish,we > > have > > > > > three > > > > > > different lagnas for harmonising the results arising out > the > > > > study > > > > > of > > > > > > natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and mostly > Moon > > > as > > > > > also > > > > > > lagna.This approach has made us to depend on various > > > mathematical > > > > > > calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a major factor > > of > > > > > study > > > > > > was taken up. > > > > > > > In the case of westren Astrologers and their philosophy > in > > > > > handing > > > > > > over good results without elaborate rules and the approach > of > > > > vedic > > > > > > Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve for > > > different > > > > > > sections of this great universe.We like or not the basic of > > our > > > > > > philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma Siddhantam. > > > > > > > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an approach > > > which > > > > is > > > > > > not deterministic but gives an opportunity for > understanding > > > what > > > > > is > > > > > > not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is not > > possible. > > > > > > > I agree with you when you say: > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been > > > quite > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all > > and > > > > > work > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just > > one > > > > or > > > > > > two > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results > > > > > > > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional element > > where > > > > > some > > > > > > soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand predict > any > > > > thing? > > > > > > > In India Astrology is making strides with the revival > > towards > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > understanding and to find it's relevance in modern times > and > > in > > > > > > futuristic studies. > > > > > > > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri K.N Rao > as > > my > > > > > great > > > > > > Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have ventured > > myself > > > in > > > > > to > > > > > > these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > rohiniranjan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not be personally offended but I have a bit of > > > > problem > > > > > > > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years ago on > his > > > > > > newslist, > > > > > > > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a conclusion > > (he > > > > had > > > > > > also > > > > > > > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') was > > derived. > > > > > Given > > > > > > > that there must be millions of jyotishis in India itself > > and > > > > the > > > > > > > population growing like a family of rabbits all over the > > > globe, > > > > > how > > > > > > > can one make a statement like that unless a survey was > > done. > > > It > > > > > is > > > > > > > his greatness that he eventually responded saying that > > > > somewhere > > > > > (I > > > > > > > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang makers (I > > > recall > > > > > less > > > > > > > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had > > > congregated > > > > > with > > > > > > > some govt. officials and through their deliberations > > (details > > > > of > > > > > > > which I would be curious to learn but have no clue where > to > > > > find > > > > > > > those or if those were even published or made avaiable to > > > > anyone) > > > > > > had > > > > > > > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra ayanamsha > is > > > the > > > > > one > > > > > > to > > > > > > > be adopted. I never got the information as to how many of > > > these > > > > > > fine > > > > > > > individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced jyotish > > > with > > > > > any > > > > > > > success during their lifetime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri ayanamsha > > which > > > > is > > > > > > > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he has > > > mentioned > > > > > > that > > > > > > > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that this was > > > close > > > > to > > > > > > > what his astrological guru used/recommended and also > close > > to > > > > the > > > > > > > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your time > of > > > > birth > > > > > > > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. Karve, it > > seems > > > > > > looked > > > > > > > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and with > > lahiri > > > > > > > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students probably > > use > > > > > only > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a few so > > > > cannot > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we can say that the vocal majority on internet > > probably > > > > uses > > > > > > > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard reference, > > then > > > > the > > > > > > > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the > > participants > > > > > (less > > > > > > > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those that ask > > for > > > > > > readings > > > > > > > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be the > > > > experience > > > > > > in > > > > > > > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, express, > > > write). > > > > So > > > > > > one > > > > > > > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the > > astrologers > > > > > > (sorry > > > > > > > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a similar > > value. > > > > > This > > > > > > is > > > > > > > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha does not > > work > > > > or > > > > > > does > > > > > > > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In fact > > > there > > > > > are > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have been > > > quite > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at all > > and > > > > > work > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not just > > one > > > > or > > > > > > two > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and claims > > floating > > > > > > around > > > > > > > in the ocean of astrology about this or that being tge > > > absolute > > > > > > truth > > > > > > > in the field of astrology in general and statements such > as > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > is good for predicting events and tropical better at > > > describing > > > > > the > > > > > > > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier > written > > > > > > articles, > > > > > > > this is more a reflection of the person and his > background > > > who > > > > > then > > > > > > > went on to become an astrologer - the economist drawn to > > > > > > forecasting > > > > > > > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of the > > > diseases, > > > > > the > > > > > > > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the horoscope, > the > > > > > > > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed through > the > > > map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a few of > > > these > > > > > are > > > > > > > capable of giving such a rich description of the human > > > > > experience, > > > > > > > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the scope of > > > > > > comprehension > > > > > > > of any one individual, whether astrologer, jyotishi, > > > > > tarotomancer, > > > > > > > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa is used > > in > > > KP > > > > > > > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. It's > up > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa with > > > > deg:min:sec > > > > > is > > > > > > > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, pp 1, > 88- > > > 93) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > krishnan > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ji Amitji, > > > > > > > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of > discussions > > > due > > > > > to > > > > > > > > differences it has been agreed that scietifically > prudent > > > to > > > > > use > > > > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted has > also > > > > > > > recommended > > > > > > > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > > > > > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research of > Shri > > > > > K.N.Rao > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amit_call wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. > > > > > > > > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > > > > > > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > > > > > > > > Please guide me. > > > > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL ! ~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been === message truncated === ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 With lahiri, moon is in the same rashi as ketu, both whether using true or mean nodes. KSY does not exist With Raman nodes change sign, but cancellation exists same way with other planets. Please be careful when using KSY to explain mishaps or other things. KSY is not an unconditional jail sentance and all troubles cannot and should not be explained based on KSY, full or partial, perceived or manifest. Does the person have a very sensitive nature, lacks strong self- esteem and around early 2001 began to show somewhat deviation from his normal personality? Trying new and different things, some not positive at all? Sexual problems (I realize that is a large net) prior to that, and problems with 'fitting in' into groups, feeling ill-understood by others and similar issues? Impulsive and rather grandiose expenditures and extreme restlessness in spirit and one who would be happier and better performer in wide open spaces rather than confining situations? Like in a progressive society, abroad? Restless sleep, dreams of a restless, active, anxious nature? Major issues with or concerning elder siblings if they exist, particularly an elder sister or cousin sister? , "amit_call" <amit_call> wrote: > > Rohini ji > The details of native are: > > DOB:10-Jun-1977 > Time:04:00 A.M. > Place:Aligarh,U.P..27N54 78E04 > The chart casted using Lahiri/KP ayamansa gives KSD while using Raman > Ayamansa it doesn't. > My Understanding of KSD is when all the Planets are between Rahu and > Ketu. > someWhere i read if Any planet joins Ketu or Rahu ..then it is not > KSD.In that case it will not be KSD. > If wrong pls correct me. > Sincerely > Amit kUmar > > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > > > Dear Amit, > > > > This sounds fascinating! Would you care to share the birthdata for > > the nativity that had KSD only with Lahiri ayanamsha? > > > > Thanks > > > > RR > > > > , "amit_call" > <amit_call> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > I thank all the members for postings and throwing light on this > > > Ayamansa confusion. > > > This is accepted that Pridiction is one's own ability. > > > Also in a magazine of astrology i read a sloka which says "In > > > Kaliyuga only a few will be true astrologers and the best ones' > > > pridictive power will only manifest to 25%" > > > I do not remember the exact sloka but the meaning was same. > > > Also i want to add that some time back i met a Nadi Reader. > > > in Nadi i was amazed to see that they told my name,my parents > > > name ,some educational background,present condition and a little > > more. > > > also as per Nadi he made a chart and gave to me. > > > This chart is same as i get using Lahiri and KP Ayamansa. > > > Also one of my friend got a chance to meet a sidhha Purush in > > > Bulandshahar(U.P.).He is a young sanyasi.Looking at face he said > > > something about him..his problems and told that he was having > Kaal > > > Sarpa Dosha. > > > I was very new to astrology at that time.I started reading abt > KSD > > > and found that there was really KSD in his chart. > > > Now i see this chart is as per Lahiri Ayamansa. > > > Other Ayamansa give no KSD. > > > Well, its a matter of observation...... > > > I have to observe in a time span which chart better explains my > > life > > > and which charts Dashas confirms the timing of events. > > > As i am new to astrology hence i was hesitating to adopt this > > > approach. > > > Also i sing with your lines "Intuition is great reliable tool". > > > Thanks > > > Sincerely > > > Amit Kumar > > > > > > > > > , Amitabh Shastri > > > <amitabh_shastri> wrote: > > > > Sorry for the delay in response. But you're right. It is the > man > > > behind the weapon who counts. The weapon is just a piece of > metal, > > > wood and other ingredients of which it is composed. > > > > The difference between innimate and animate needs to be > > understood > > > very clearly. > > > > Best wishes for a happy and prosperous new year. > > > > Amitabh Shastri > > > > rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes -- that is my view too, fwiw. > > > > > > > > rr > > > > > > > > , "tw853" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I hope one can use what WORKS for him as INDIVIDUAL > astrologer, > > > > while > > > > > simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of others. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope I am understanding you correctly, that your position > > is > > > > that > > > > > > no specific ayanamsha alone can explain all that astrology > > (as > > > we > > > > > > know it) explains. That there are more mysteries that lie, > > > > Horatio, > > > > > > between the heaven and earth? If so, then yes that is what > I > > > was > > > > > > saying all along, namely, that there are divinators that > > > > > successfully > > > > > > use different ayanamshas, and some that do not even use > > > > ayanamshas, > > > > > > so no point in agonizing over which ayanamsha is the only > > > > accurate > > > > > > one. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pardon my crude and cruel analogy, but the aiming sights on > a > > > > rifle > > > > > > while of tremendous help in improving the marksmanship, > would > > > > alone > > > > > > not make one an expert marksman! Ayanamsha is like > > that 'sight' > > > > > which > > > > > > definitely is helpful if trained at the target carefully, > > > > however, > > > > > > the marksman still must effectively learn to hold the rifle > > and > > > > > > improve their skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > Most practitioners (present company excepted of course!) in > > > > > astrology > > > > > > of any kind are at best figuring their way out of this > dense > > > > > forest, > > > > > > even if they may not be brave enough to admit. Your sage > > advice > > > > to > > > > > > not make ayanamsha a big deal is well-given and finds > accord > > in > > > > my > > > > > > own personal outlook. I respond only when I notice overt or > > > > covert > > > > > > insinuations that a given ayanamsha is somehow the best > > without > > > > no > > > > > > direct and ample proof for such, forthcoming. > > > > > > > > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hello Rohiniji, > > > > > > > The Astronomical studies have confirmed ecliptical zodiac > > and > > > > the > > > > > > movements of the planets along with planets was never found > > to > > > be > > > > > > unform.So we have all confusions added to the changes being > > > > > witnessed > > > > > > in the planet earth due unpredicatable characterstics of > > > > Nature.I > > > > > do > > > > > > not know whether I can put that even the science finds it > > > > difficult > > > > > > to say in precise nature.May be Ayanamsa correction is a > > > specific > > > > > > approach from the fixed zodiac of Aries.Westren Astrology > > based > > > > on > > > > > > accptable solar system too may be able to solve the riddles > > of > > > > > human > > > > > > life and anticipated events.Even we in our Astrology avoid > > > > Neptune > > > > > > and Pluto,westren Astrologers attribute great significance > of > > > > these > > > > > > two outer planets.Still i believe that the kind of > > Shodasamasas > > > > we > > > > > > have developed can bring out comfortably various aspects of > > > life > > > > > > including the nature of old age through the aid of > divisional > > > > chart. > > > > > > > Keeping these aspects in mind,probably it is appropriate > > till > > > > > such > > > > > > that we are not able to deny Ayanamsa,particularly Lahiri's > > > > > Ayanamsa > > > > > > as useful for our purposes but we do not discount other > > > > approaches > > > > > > and certainly not their efficacy in predictions. > > > > > > > Certainly Astrology,particularly Vedic Astrology to > unfold > > > the > > > > > the > > > > > > future and past events will always remain to be connected > > with > > > > > > intution and if not the sixth sense. > > > > > > > In this we have umpteen examples including a 10year old > > > British > > > > > who > > > > > > could recollect from her class rom lessons to say the most > > > > unusual > > > > > > and catsrophic events like Tsunami. > > > > > > > Even Late B.V.raman makes it a point to refer to the > > accuracy > > > > to > > > > > > Brahma as the creator of universe. > > > > > > > Iam sure our distinguished members may have some more > > valuble > > > > > > suggestions on the subject. > > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw853 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture myself > > into > > > > the > > > > > > > highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa discussion. For > > > myself > > > > I > > > > > > use > > > > > > > new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting the > > personal > > > > > > > preferences of others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello Amitji, > > > > > > > > For some time I had the fortune of getting associated > > with > > > > > > Phalit > > > > > > > jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New Delhi. > > > > > > > > In the committee constituted by the Govt of India even > > late > > > > > Shri > > > > > > > B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several vedic > > scholars > > > > > from > > > > > > > Benares,Haridwar and other places. > > > > > > > > Even in these learned institutions research on the > > > subjectof > > > > > > > Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are guided > > > through > > > > > Prof > > > > > > > Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India and > > > several > > > > > > other > > > > > > > Govts too have supported the research and even built mini > > > > jantar- > > > > > > > mantars to calculate the movements of planets and study > the > > > > > motion > > > > > > of > > > > > > > earth.And these effects through research are getting > > > published > > > > in > > > > > > > Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati university > > in > > > > > India. > > > > > > > > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of Lahiri > > > > > Ayanamsa.I > > > > > > > have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you want to > > be > > > > sure > > > > > > > before you infer as : > > > > > > > > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' > > > > > > > > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of Ayanamsa in > > > Helio > > > > > > > Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren > Astrologers. > > > > > > > > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu > > Predictive > > > > > > > Astrology through various approaches of Ganith jyotish,we > > > have > > > > > > three > > > > > > > different lagnas for harmonising the results arising out > > the > > > > > study > > > > > > of > > > > > > > natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and mostly > > Moon > > > > as > > > > > > also > > > > > > > lagna.This approach has made us to depend on various > > > > mathematical > > > > > > > calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a major > factor > > > of > > > > > > study > > > > > > > was taken up. > > > > > > > > In the case of westren Astrologers and their philosophy > > in > > > > > > handing > > > > > > > over good results without elaborate rules and the > approach > > of > > > > > vedic > > > > > > > Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve for > > > > different > > > > > > > sections of this great universe.We like or not the basic > of > > > our > > > > > > > philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma Siddhantam. > > > > > > > > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an > approach > > > > which > > > > > is > > > > > > > not deterministic but gives an opportunity for > > understanding > > > > what > > > > > > is > > > > > > > not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is not > > > possible. > > > > > > > > I agree with you when you say: > > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have > been > > > > quite > > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at > all > > > and > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not > just > > > one > > > > > or > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results > > > > > > > > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional element > > > where > > > > > > some > > > > > > > soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand predict > > any > > > > > thing? > > > > > > > > In India Astrology is making strides with the revival > > > towards > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > understanding and to find it's relevance in modern times > > and > > > in > > > > > > > futuristic studies. > > > > > > > > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri K.N Rao > > as > > > my > > > > > > great > > > > > > > Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have ventured > > > myself > > > > in > > > > > > to > > > > > > > these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > > > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > rohiniranjan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not be personally offended but I have a bit > of > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years ago on > > his > > > > > > > newslist, > > > > > > > > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a > conclusion > > > (he > > > > > had > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') was > > > derived. > > > > > > Given > > > > > > > > that there must be millions of jyotishis in India > itself > > > and > > > > > the > > > > > > > > population growing like a family of rabbits all over > the > > > > globe, > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > can one make a statement like that unless a survey was > > > done. > > > > It > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > his greatness that he eventually responded saying that > > > > > somewhere > > > > > > (I > > > > > > > > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang makers (I > > > > recall > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had > > > > congregated > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > some govt. officials and through their deliberations > > > (details > > > > > of > > > > > > > > which I would be curious to learn but have no clue > where > > to > > > > > find > > > > > > > > those or if those were even published or made avaiable > to > > > > > anyone) > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra ayanamsha > > is > > > > the > > > > > > one > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > be adopted. I never got the information as to how many > of > > > > these > > > > > > > fine > > > > > > > > individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced > jyotish > > > > with > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > success during their lifetime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri ayanamsha > > > which > > > > > is > > > > > > > > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he has > > > > mentioned > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that this > was > > > > close > > > > > to > > > > > > > > what his astrological guru used/recommended and also > > close > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > > > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your > time > > of > > > > > birth > > > > > > > > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. Karve, it > > > seems > > > > > > > looked > > > > > > > > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and with > > > lahiri > > > > > > > > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students > probably > > > use > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a few > so > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we can say that the vocal majority on internet > > > probably > > > > > uses > > > > > > > > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard reference, > > > then > > > > > the > > > > > > > > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the > > > participants > > > > > > (less > > > > > > > > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those that > ask > > > for > > > > > > > readings > > > > > > > > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be the > > > > > experience > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, express, > > > > write). > > > > > So > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the > > > astrologers > > > > > > > (sorry > > > > > > > > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a similar > > > value. > > > > > > This > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha does > not > > > work > > > > > or > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In > fact > > > > there > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have > been > > > > quite > > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at > all > > > and > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not > just > > > one > > > > > or > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and claims > > > floating > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > in the ocean of astrology about this or that being tge > > > > absolute > > > > > > > truth > > > > > > > > in the field of astrology in general and statements > such > > as > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > is good for predicting events and tropical better at > > > > describing > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier > > written > > > > > > > articles, > > > > > > > > this is more a reflection of the person and his > > background > > > > who > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > went on to become an astrologer - the economist drawn > to > > > > > > > forecasting > > > > > > > > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of the > > > > diseases, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the horoscope, > > the > > > > > > > > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed through > > the > > > > map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a few > of > > > > these > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > capable of giving such a rich description of the human > > > > > > experience, > > > > > > > > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the scope of > > > > > > > comprehension > > > > > > > > of any one individual, whether astrologer, jyotishi, > > > > > > tarotomancer, > > > > > > > > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa is > used > > > in > > > > KP > > > > > > > > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. > It's > > up > > > > to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa with > > > > > deg:min:sec > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, pp > 1, > > 88- > > > > 93) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ji Amitji, > > > > > > > > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of > > discussions > > > > due > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > differences it has been agreed that scietifically > > prudent > > > > to > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted has > > also > > > > > > > > recommended > > > > > > > > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > > > > > > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research of > > Shri > > > > > > K.N.Rao > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amit_call wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. > > > > > > > > > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > > > > > > > > > Please guide me. > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! 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Guest guest Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Ji Rohini ji, I never say anything about which i do not know with certainty.so is KSY. The Analysis you gave is almost right. >Does the person have a very sensitive nature, lacks strong self- > esteem This is true. In 2001 He faced comlpex,degrading situations at his Job. > Sexual problems (I realize that is a large net) prior to that, and > problems with 'fitting in' into groups, feeling ill-understood by > others and similar issues? All is Right. He has lost his Parents. Main problem is his social status.He is a fourth class government servent, the job he got after death of his father while in service. He is a comlex personality.He is a good critic so much that he critices himself too always.But he is not enough strong to change his habits.He doesn't have congenial relations with Relatives(yes with family of elder sister),Not much good friends,avoid facing things.And always an unstability,fear kind of thing is felt. Also his chart needs some rectification. the data i gave is from the chart made by nearby jyotishi. Thanks And Regards Amit , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > With lahiri, moon is in the same rashi as ketu, both whether using > true or mean nodes. KSY does not exist > With Raman nodes change sign, but cancellation exists same way with > other planets. > > Please be careful when using KSY to explain mishaps or other things. > KSY is not an unconditional jail sentance and all troubles cannot and > should not be explained based on KSY, full or partial, perceived or > manifest. > > Does the person have a very sensitive nature, lacks strong self- > esteem and around early 2001 began to show somewhat deviation from > his normal personality? Trying new and different things, some not > positive at all? > > Sexual problems (I realize that is a large net) prior to that, and > problems with 'fitting in' into groups, feeling ill-understood by > others and similar issues? > > Impulsive and rather grandiose expenditures and extreme restlessness > in spirit and one who would be happier and better performer in wide > open spaces rather than confining situations? Like in a progressive > society, abroad? > > Restless sleep, dreams of a restless, active, anxious nature? > > Major issues with or concerning elder siblings if they exist, > particularly an elder sister or cousin sister? > > , "amit_call" <amit_call> > wrote: > > > > Rohini ji > > The details of native are: > > > > DOB:10-Jun-1977 > > Time:04:00 A.M. > > Place:Aligarh,U.P..27N54 78E04 > > The chart casted using Lahiri/KP ayamansa gives KSD while using > Raman > > Ayamansa it doesn't. > > My Understanding of KSD is when all the Planets are between Rahu > and > > Ketu. > > someWhere i read if Any planet joins Ketu or Rahu ..then it is not > > KSD.In that case it will not be KSD. > > If wrong pls correct me. > > Sincerely > > Amit kUmar > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Amit, > > > > > > This sounds fascinating! Would you care to share the birthdata > for > > > the nativity that had KSD only with Lahiri ayanamsha? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , "amit_call" > > <amit_call> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > I thank all the members for postings and throwing light on this > > > > Ayamansa confusion. > > > > This is accepted that Pridiction is one's own ability. > > > > Also in a magazine of astrology i read a sloka which says "In > > > > Kaliyuga only a few will be true astrologers and the best ones' > > > > pridictive power will only manifest to 25%" > > > > I do not remember the exact sloka but the meaning was same. > > > > Also i want to add that some time back i met a Nadi Reader. > > > > in Nadi i was amazed to see that they told my name,my parents > > > > name ,some educational background,present condition and a > little > > > more. > > > > also as per Nadi he made a chart and gave to me. > > > > This chart is same as i get using Lahiri and KP Ayamansa. > > > > Also one of my friend got a chance to meet a sidhha Purush in > > > > Bulandshahar(U.P.).He is a young sanyasi.Looking at face he > said > > > > something about him..his problems and told that he was having > > Kaal > > > > Sarpa Dosha. > > > > I was very new to astrology at that time.I started reading abt > > KSD > > > > and found that there was really KSD in his chart. > > > > Now i see this chart is as per Lahiri Ayamansa. > > > > Other Ayamansa give no KSD. > > > > Well, its a matter of observation...... > > > > I have to observe in a time span which chart better explains my > > > life > > > > and which charts Dashas confirms the timing of events. > > > > As i am new to astrology hence i was hesitating to adopt this > > > > approach. > > > > Also i sing with your lines "Intuition is great reliable tool". > > > > Thanks > > > > Sincerely > > > > Amit Kumar > > > > > > > > > > > > , Amitabh Shastri > > > > <amitabh_shastri> wrote: > > > > > Sorry for the delay in response. But you're right. It is the > > man > > > > behind the weapon who counts. The weapon is just a piece of > > metal, > > > > wood and other ingredients of which it is composed. > > > > > The difference between innimate and animate needs to be > > > understood > > > > very clearly. > > > > > Best wishes for a happy and prosperous new year. > > > > > Amitabh Shastri > > > > > rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes -- that is my view too, fwiw. > > > > > > > > > > rr > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope one can use what WORKS for him as INDIVIDUAL > > astrologer, > > > > > while > > > > > > simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of > others. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope I am understanding you correctly, that your > position > > > is > > > > > that > > > > > > > no specific ayanamsha alone can explain all that > astrology > > > (as > > > > we > > > > > > > know it) explains. That there are more mysteries that > lie, > > > > > Horatio, > > > > > > > between the heaven and earth? If so, then yes that is > what > > I > > > > was > > > > > > > saying all along, namely, that there are divinators that > > > > > > successfully > > > > > > > use different ayanamshas, and some that do not even use > > > > > ayanamshas, > > > > > > > so no point in agonizing over which ayanamsha is the only > > > > > accurate > > > > > > > one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pardon my crude and cruel analogy, but the aiming sights > on > > a > > > > > rifle > > > > > > > while of tremendous help in improving the marksmanship, > > would > > > > > alone > > > > > > > not make one an expert marksman! Ayanamsha is like > > > that 'sight' > > > > > > which > > > > > > > definitely is helpful if trained at the target carefully, > > > > > however, > > > > > > > the marksman still must effectively learn to hold the > rifle > > > and > > > > > > > improve their skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most practitioners (present company excepted of course!) > in > > > > > > astrology > > > > > > > of any kind are at best figuring their way out of this > > dense > > > > > > forest, > > > > > > > even if they may not be brave enough to admit. Your sage > > > advice > > > > > to > > > > > > > not make ayanamsha a big deal is well-given and finds > > accord > > > in > > > > > my > > > > > > > own personal outlook. I respond only when I notice overt > or > > > > > covert > > > > > > > insinuations that a given ayanamsha is somehow the best > > > without > > > > > no > > > > > > > direct and ample proof for such, forthcoming. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello Rohiniji, > > > > > > > > The Astronomical studies have confirmed ecliptical > zodiac > > > and > > > > > the > > > > > > > movements of the planets along with planets was never > found > > > to > > > > be > > > > > > > unform.So we have all confusions added to the changes > being > > > > > > witnessed > > > > > > > in the planet earth due unpredicatable characterstics of > > > > > Nature.I > > > > > > do > > > > > > > not know whether I can put that even the science finds it > > > > > difficult > > > > > > > to say in precise nature.May be Ayanamsa correction is a > > > > specific > > > > > > > approach from the fixed zodiac of Aries.Westren Astrology > > > based > > > > > on > > > > > > > accptable solar system too may be able to solve the > riddles > > > of > > > > > > human > > > > > > > life and anticipated events.Even we in our Astrology > avoid > > > > > Neptune > > > > > > > and Pluto,westren Astrologers attribute great > significance > > of > > > > > these > > > > > > > two outer planets.Still i believe that the kind of > > > Shodasamasas > > > > > we > > > > > > > have developed can bring out comfortably various aspects > of > > > > life > > > > > > > including the nature of old age through the aid of > > divisional > > > > > chart. > > > > > > > > Keeping these aspects in mind,probably it is > appropriate > > > till > > > > > > such > > > > > > > that we are not able to deny Ayanamsa,particularly > Lahiri's > > > > > > Ayanamsa > > > > > > > as useful for our purposes but we do not discount other > > > > > approaches > > > > > > > and certainly not their efficacy in predictions. > > > > > > > > Certainly Astrology,particularly Vedic Astrology to > > unfold > > > > the > > > > > > the > > > > > > > future and past events will always remain to be connected > > > with > > > > > > > intution and if not the sixth sense. > > > > > > > > In this we have umpteen examples including a 10year old > > > > British > > > > > > who > > > > > > > could recollect from her class rom lessons to say the > most > > > > > unusual > > > > > > > and catsrophic events like Tsunami. > > > > > > > > Even Late B.V.raman makes it a point to refer to the > > > accuracy > > > > > to > > > > > > > Brahma as the creator of universe. > > > > > > > > Iam sure our distinguished members may have some more > > > valuble > > > > > > > suggestions on the subject. > > > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw853 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture > myself > > > into > > > > > the > > > > > > > > highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa discussion. > For > > > > myself > > > > > I > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting the > > > personal > > > > > > > > preferences of others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > krishnan > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello Amitji, > > > > > > > > > For some time I had the fortune of getting associated > > > with > > > > > > > Phalit > > > > > > > > jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New Delhi. > > > > > > > > > In the committee constituted by the Govt of India > even > > > late > > > > > > Shri > > > > > > > > B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several vedic > > > scholars > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > Benares,Haridwar and other places. > > > > > > > > > Even in these learned institutions research on the > > > > subjectof > > > > > > > > Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are guided > > > > through > > > > > > Prof > > > > > > > > Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India and > > > > several > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > Govts too have supported the research and even built > mini > > > > > jantar- > > > > > > > > mantars to calculate the movements of planets and study > > the > > > > > > motion > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > earth.And these effects through research are getting > > > > published > > > > > in > > > > > > > > Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati > university > > > in > > > > > > India. > > > > > > > > > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of > Lahiri > > > > > > Ayanamsa.I > > > > > > > > have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you want > to > > > be > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > before you infer as : > > > > > > > > > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' > > > > > > > > > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of Ayanamsa > in > > > > Helio > > > > > > > > Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren > > Astrologers. > > > > > > > > > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu > > > Predictive > > > > > > > > Astrology through various approaches of Ganith > jyotish,we > > > > have > > > > > > > three > > > > > > > > different lagnas for harmonising the results arising > out > > > the > > > > > > study > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and > mostly > > > Moon > > > > > as > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > lagna.This approach has made us to depend on various > > > > > mathematical > > > > > > > > calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a major > > factor > > > > of > > > > > > > study > > > > > > > > was taken up. > > > > > > > > > In the case of westren Astrologers and their > philosophy > > > in > > > > > > > handing > > > > > > > > over good results without elaborate rules and the > > approach > > > of > > > > > > vedic > > > > > > > > Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve for > > > > > different > > > > > > > > sections of this great universe.We like or not the > basic > > of > > > > our > > > > > > > > philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma Siddhantam. > > > > > > > > > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an > > approach > > > > > which > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > not deterministic but gives an opportunity for > > > understanding > > > > > what > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is not > > > > possible. > > > > > > > > > I agree with you when you say: > > > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have > > been > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at > > all > > > > and > > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not > > just > > > > one > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results > > > > > > > > > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional > element > > > > where > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand > predict > > > any > > > > > > thing? > > > > > > > > > In India Astrology is making strides with the revival > > > > towards > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > > understanding and to find it's relevance in modern > times > > > and > > > > in > > > > > > > > futuristic studies. > > > > > > > > > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri K.N > Rao > > > as > > > > my > > > > > > > great > > > > > > > > Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have ventured > > > > myself > > > > > in > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > > > > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > rohiniranjan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not be personally offended but I have a bit > > of > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years ago > on > > > his > > > > > > > > newslist, > > > > > > > > > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a > > conclusion > > > > (he > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') was > > > > derived. > > > > > > > Given > > > > > > > > > that there must be millions of jyotishis in India > > itself > > > > and > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > population growing like a family of rabbits all over > > the > > > > > globe, > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > can one make a statement like that unless a survey > was > > > > done. > > > > > It > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > his greatness that he eventually responded saying > that > > > > > > somewhere > > > > > > > (I > > > > > > > > > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang makers > (I > > > > > recall > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had > > > > > congregated > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > some govt. officials and through their deliberations > > > > (details > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > which I would be curious to learn but have no clue > > where > > > to > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > > those or if those were even published or made > avaiable > > to > > > > > > anyone) > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra > ayanamsha > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > be adopted. I never got the information as to how > many > > of > > > > > these > > > > > > > > fine > > > > > > > > > individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced > > jyotish > > > > > with > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > success during their lifetime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri > ayanamsha > > > > which > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he has > > > > > mentioned > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that this > > was > > > > > close > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > what his astrological guru used/recommended and also > > > close > > > > to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your > > time > > > of > > > > > > birth > > > > > > > > > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. Karve, > it > > > > seems > > > > > > > > looked > > > > > > > > > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and with > > > > lahiri > > > > > > > > > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students > > probably > > > > use > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a > few > > so > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we can say that the vocal majority on internet > > > > probably > > > > > > uses > > > > > > > > > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard > reference, > > > > then > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the > > > > participants > > > > > > > (less > > > > > > > > > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those that > > ask > > > > for > > > > > > > > readings > > > > > > > > > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be > the > > > > > > experience > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, > express, > > > > > write). > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the > > > > astrologers > > > > > > > > (sorry > > > > > > > > > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a > similar > > > > value. > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha does > > not > > > > work > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In > > fact > > > > > there > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have > > been > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at > > all > > > > and > > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not > > just > > > > one > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and claims > > > > floating > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > in the ocean of astrology about this or that being > tge > > > > > absolute > > > > > > > > truth > > > > > > > > > in the field of astrology in general and statements > > such > > > as > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > is good for predicting events and tropical better at > > > > > describing > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier > > > written > > > > > > > > articles, > > > > > > > > > this is more a reflection of the person and his > > > background > > > > > who > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > went on to become an astrologer - the economist drawn > > to > > > > > > > > forecasting > > > > > > > > > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of the > > > > > diseases, > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the > horoscope, > > > the > > > > > > > > > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed > through > > > the > > > > > map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a > few > > of > > > > > these > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > capable of giving such a rich description of the > human > > > > > > > experience, > > > > > > > > > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the scope > of > > > > > > > > comprehension > > > > > > > > > of any one individual, whether astrologer, jyotishi, > > > > > > > tarotomancer, > > > > > > > > > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa is > > used > > > > in > > > > > KP > > > > > > > > > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. > > It's > > > up > > > > > to > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa with > > > > > > deg:min:sec > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, pp > > 1, > > > 88- > > > > > 93) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Ji Amitji, > > > > > > > > > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of > > > discussions > > > > > due > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > differences it has been agreed that scietifically > > > prudent > > > > > to > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted > has > > > also > > > > > > > > > recommended > > > > > > > > > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research of > > > Shri > > > > > > > K.N.Rao > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amit_call wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > > I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. > > > > > > > > > > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > > > > > > > > > > Please guide me. > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! 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Guest guest Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Thanks Amitabh ji, I got a mail of sreelatha ji in the list archive that explains KSY. Now i am more clear. thanks for your guidance. Regards AMit , Amitabh Shastri <amitabh_shastri> wrote: > Dear Amit, > For KSD planets must be moving towards Rahu. In reverse case it is said to be KAD. > With best wishes, > Amitabh Shastri > > amit_call <amit_call> wrote: > > > Rohini ji > The details of native are: > > DOB:10-Jun-1977 > Time:04:00 A.M. > Place:Aligarh,U.P..27N54 78E04 > The chart casted using Lahiri/KP ayamansa gives KSD while using Raman > Ayamansa it doesn't. > My Understanding of KSD is when all the Planets are between Rahu and > Ketu. > someWhere i read if Any planet joins Ketu or Rahu ..then it is not > KSD.In that case it will not be KSD. > If wrong pls correct me. > Sincerely > Amit kUmar > > > , "rohiniranjan" > wrote: > > > > Dear Amit, > > > > This sounds fascinating! Would you care to share the birthdata for > > the nativity that had KSD only with Lahiri ayanamsha? > > > > Thanks > > > > RR > > > > , "amit_call" > > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > I thank all the members for postings and throwing light on this > > > Ayamansa confusion. > > > This is accepted that Pridiction is one's own ability. > > > Also in a magazine of astrology i read a sloka which says "In > > > Kaliyuga only a few will be true astrologers and the best ones' > > > pridictive power will only manifest to 25%" > > > I do not remember the exact sloka but the meaning was same. > > > Also i want to add that some time back i met a Nadi Reader. > > > in Nadi i was amazed to see that they told my name,my parents > > > name ,some educational background,present condition and a little > > more. > > > also as per Nadi he made a chart and gave to me. > > > This chart is same as i get using Lahiri and KP Ayamansa. > > > Also one of my friend got a chance to meet a sidhha Purush in > > > Bulandshahar(U.P.).He is a young sanyasi.Looking at face he said > > > something about him..his problems and told that he was having > Kaal > > > Sarpa Dosha. > > > I was very new to astrology at that time.I started reading abt > KSD > > > and found that there was really KSD in his chart. > > > Now i see this chart is as per Lahiri Ayamansa. > > > Other Ayamansa give no KSD. > > > Well, its a matter of observation...... > > > I have to observe in a time span which chart better explains my > > life > > > and which charts Dashas confirms the timing of events. > > > As i am new to astrology hence i was hesitating to adopt this > > > approach. > > > Also i sing with your lines "Intuition is great reliable tool". > > > Thanks > > > Sincerely > > > Amit Kumar > > > > > > > > > , Amitabh Shastri > > > wrote: > > > > Sorry for the delay in response. But you're right. It is the > man > > > behind the weapon who counts. The weapon is just a piece of > metal, > > > wood and other ingredients of which it is composed. > > > > The difference between innimate and animate needs to be > > understood > > > very clearly. > > > > Best wishes for a happy and prosperous new year. > > > > Amitabh Shastri > > > > rohiniranjan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes -- that is my view too, fwiw. > > > > > > > > rr > > > > > > > > , "tw853" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I hope one can use what WORKS for him as INDIVIDUAL > astrologer, > > > > while > > > > > simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of others. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope I am understanding you correctly, that your position > > is > > > > that > > > > > > no specific ayanamsha alone can explain all that astrology > > (as > > > we > > > > > > know it) explains. That there are more mysteries that lie, > > > > Horatio, > > > > > > between the heaven and earth? If so, then yes that is what > I > > > was > > > > > > saying all along, namely, that there are divinators that > > > > > successfully > > > > > > use different ayanamshas, and some that do not even use > > > > ayanamshas, > > > > > > so no point in agonizing over which ayanamsha is the only > > > > accurate > > > > > > one. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pardon my crude and cruel analogy, but the aiming sights on > a > > > > rifle > > > > > > while of tremendous help in improving the marksmanship, > would > > > > alone > > > > > > not make one an expert marksman! Ayanamsha is like > > that 'sight' > > > > > which > > > > > > definitely is helpful if trained at the target carefully, > > > > however, > > > > > > the marksman still must effectively learn to hold the rifle > > and > > > > > > improve their skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > Most practitioners (present company excepted of course!) in > > > > > astrology > > > > > > of any kind are at best figuring their way out of this > dense > > > > > forest, > > > > > > even if they may not be brave enough to admit. Your sage > > advice > > > > to > > > > > > not make ayanamsha a big deal is well-given and finds > accord > > in > > > > my > > > > > > own personal outlook. I respond only when I notice overt or > > > > covert > > > > > > insinuations that a given ayanamsha is somehow the best > > without > > > > no > > > > > > direct and ample proof for such, forthcoming. > > > > > > > > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hello Rohiniji, > > > > > > > The Astronomical studies have confirmed ecliptical zodiac > > and > > > > the > > > > > > movements of the planets along with planets was never found > > to > > > be > > > > > > unform.So we have all confusions added to the changes being > > > > > witnessed > > > > > > in the planet earth due unpredicatable characterstics of > > > > Nature.I > > > > > do > > > > > > not know whether I can put that even the science finds it > > > > difficult > > > > > > to say in precise nature.May be Ayanamsa correction is a > > > specific > > > > > > approach from the fixed zodiac of Aries.Westren Astrology > > based > > > > on > > > > > > accptable solar system too may be able to solve the riddles > > of > > > > > human > > > > > > life and anticipated events.Even we in our Astrology avoid > > > > Neptune > > > > > > and Pluto,westren Astrologers attribute great significance > of > > > > these > > > > > > two outer planets.Still i believe that the kind of > > Shodasamasas > > > > we > > > > > > have developed can bring out comfortably various aspects of > > > life > > > > > > including the nature of old age through the aid of > divisional > > > > chart. > > > > > > > Keeping these aspects in mind,probably it is appropriate > > till > > > > > such > > > > > > that we are not able to deny Ayanamsa,particularly Lahiri's > > > > > Ayanamsa > > > > > > as useful for our purposes but we do not discount other > > > > approaches > > > > > > and certainly not their efficacy in predictions. > > > > > > > Certainly Astrology,particularly Vedic Astrology to > unfold > > > the > > > > > the > > > > > > future and past events will always remain to be connected > > with > > > > > > intution and if not the sixth sense. > > > > > > > In this we have umpteen examples including a 10year old > > > British > > > > > who > > > > > > could recollect from her class rom lessons to say the most > > > > unusual > > > > > > and catsrophic events like Tsunami. > > > > > > > Even Late B.V.raman makes it a point to refer to the > > accuracy > > > > to > > > > > > Brahma as the creator of universe. > > > > > > > Iam sure our distinguished members may have some more > > valuble > > > > > > suggestions on the subject. > > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw853 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture myself > > into > > > > the > > > > > > > highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa discussion. For > > > myself > > > > I > > > > > > use > > > > > > > new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting the > > personal > > > > > > > preferences of others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello Amitji, > > > > > > > > For some time I had the fortune of getting associated > > with > > > > > > Phalit > > > > > > > jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New Delhi. > > > > > > > > In the committee constituted by the Govt of India even > > late > > > > > Shri > > > > > > > B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several vedic > > scholars > > > > > from > > > > > > > Benares,Haridwar and other places. > > > > > > > > Even in these learned institutions research on the > > > subjectof > > > > > > > Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are guided > > > through > > > > > Prof > > > > > > > Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India and > > > several > > > > > > other > > > > > > > Govts too have supported the research and even built mini > > > > jantar- > > > > > > > mantars to calculate the movements of planets and study > the > > > > > motion > > > > > > of > > > > > > > earth.And these effects through research are getting > > > published > > > > in > > > > > > > Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati university > > in > > > > > India. > > > > > > > > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of Lahiri > > > > > Ayanamsa.I > > > > > > > have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you want to > > be > > > > sure > > > > > > > before you infer as : > > > > > > > > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' > > > > > > > > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of Ayanamsa in > > > Helio > > > > > > > Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren > Astrologers. > > > > > > > > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu > > Predictive > > > > > > > Astrology through various approaches of Ganith jyotish,we > > > have > > > > > > three > > > > > > > different lagnas for harmonising the results arising out > > the > > > > > study > > > > > > of > > > > > > > natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and mostly > > Moon > > > > as > > > > > > also > > > > > > > lagna.This approach has made us to depend on various > > > > mathematical > > > > > > > calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a major > factor > > > of > > > > > > study > > > > > > > was taken up. > > > > > > > > In the case of westren Astrologers and their philosophy > > in > > > > > > handing > > > > > > > over good results without elaborate rules and the > approach > > of > > > > > vedic > > > > > > > Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve for > > > > different > > > > > > > sections of this great universe.We like or not the basic > of > > > our > > > > > > > philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma Siddhantam. > > > > > > > > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an > approach > > > > which > > > > > is > > > > > > > not deterministic but gives an opportunity for > > understanding > > > > what > > > > > > is > > > > > > > not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is not > > > possible. > > > > > > > > I agree with you when you say: > > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have > been > > > > quite > > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at > all > > > and > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not > just > > > one > > > > > or > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results > > > > > > > > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional element > > > where > > > > > > some > > > > > > > soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand predict > > any > > > > > thing? > > > > > > > > In India Astrology is making strides with the revival > > > towards > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > understanding and to find it's relevance in modern times > > and > > > in > > > > > > > futuristic studies. > > > > > > > > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri K.N Rao > > as > > > my > > > > > > great > > > > > > > Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have ventured > > > myself > > > > in > > > > > > to > > > > > > > these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > > > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > rohiniranjan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not be personally offended but I have a bit > of > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years ago on > > his > > > > > > > newslist, > > > > > > > > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a > conclusion > > > (he > > > > > had > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') was > > > derived. > > > > > > Given > > > > > > > > that there must be millions of jyotishis in India > itself > > > and > > > > > the > > > > > > > > population growing like a family of rabbits all over > the > > > > globe, > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > can one make a statement like that unless a survey was > > > done. > > > > It > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > his greatness that he eventually responded saying that > > > > > somewhere > > > > > > (I > > > > > > > > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang makers (I > > > > recall > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had > > > > congregated > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > some govt. officials and through their deliberations > > > (details > > > > > of > > > > > > > > which I would be curious to learn but have no clue > where > > to > > > > > find > > > > > > > > those or if those were even published or made avaiable > to > > > > > anyone) > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra ayanamsha > > is > > > > the > > > > > > one > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > be adopted. I never got the information as to how many > of > > > > these > > > > > > > fine > > > > > > > > individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced > jyotish > > > > with > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > success during their lifetime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri ayanamsha > > > which > > > > > is > > > > > > > > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he has > > > > mentioned > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that this > was > > > > close > > > > > to > > > > > > > > what his astrological guru used/recommended and also > > close > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > > > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your > time > > of > > > > > birth > > > > > > > > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. Karve, it > > > seems > > > > > > > looked > > > > > > > > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and with > > > lahiri > > > > > > > > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students > probably > > > use > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a few > so > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we can say that the vocal majority on internet > > > probably > > > > > uses > > > > > > > > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard reference, > > > then > > > > > the > > > > > > > > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the > > > participants > > > > > > (less > > > > > > > > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those that > ask > > > for > > > > > > > readings > > > > > > > > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be the > > > > > experience > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, express, > > > > write). > > > > > So > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the > > > astrologers > > > > > > > (sorry > > > > > > > > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a similar > > > value. > > > > > > This > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha does > not > > > work > > > > > or > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In > fact > > > > there > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have > been > > > > quite > > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha at > all > > > and > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and not > just > > > one > > > > > or > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and claims > > > floating > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > in the ocean of astrology about this or that being tge > > > > absolute > > > > > > > truth > > > > > > > > in the field of astrology in general and statements > such > > as > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > is good for predicting events and tropical better at > > > > describing > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier > > written > > > > > > > articles, > > > > > > > > this is more a reflection of the person and his > > background > > > > who > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > went on to become an astrologer - the economist drawn > to > > > > > > > forecasting > > > > > > > > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of the > > > > diseases, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the horoscope, > > the > > > > > > > > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed through > > the > > > > map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a few > of > > > > these > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > capable of giving such a rich description of the human > > > > > > experience, > > > > > > > > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the scope of > > > > > > > comprehension > > > > > > > > of any one individual, whether astrologer, jyotishi, > > > > > > tarotomancer, > > > > > > > > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa is > used > > > in > > > > KP > > > > > > > > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. > It's > > up > > > > to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa with > > > > > deg:min:sec > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, pp > 1, > > 88- > > > > 93) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ji Amitji, > > > > > > > > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of > > discussions > > > > due > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > differences it has been agreed that scietifically > > prudent > > > > to > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted has > > also > > > > > > > > recommended > > > > > > > > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > > > > > > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research of > > Shri > > > > > > K.N.Rao > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amit_call wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > I have a confusion over Using different Ayamansas. > > > > > > > > > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > > > > > > > > > Please guide me. > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL ! > ~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > Terms > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > === message truncated === > > > ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Daer Amit, I checked the chart with KP. The birth data are absolutely correct. No correction required. Saturn is his key planet. Saturn is rising in so many cusps sub.[KP] So many planets are in sub of Saturn. Saturn in Cacer in Mercury star shows his personality.Mer in 1st house Taraus. Unfortunate, despodent,fear complex, gathers information/knowlegge, severe critical of every thing, not much hope for rise in future. May go for spritual persuits later in life. Inder , "amit_call" <amit_call> wrote: > > Ji Rohini ji, > I never say anything about which i do not know with certainty.so is > KSY. > The Analysis you gave is almost right. > >Does the person have a very sensitive nature, lacks strong self- > > esteem > This is true. > In 2001 He faced comlpex,degrading situations at his Job. > > > Sexual problems (I realize that is a large net) prior to that, and > > problems with 'fitting in' into groups, feeling ill-understood by > > others and similar issues? > All is Right. > He has lost his Parents. > Main problem is his social status.He is a fourth class government > servent, the job he got after death of his father while in service. > He is a comlex personality.He is a good critic so much that he > critices himself too always.But he is not enough strong to change his > habits.He doesn't have congenial relations with Relatives(yes with > family of elder sister),Not much good friends,avoid facing things.And > always an unstability,fear kind of thing is felt. > Also his chart needs some rectification. > the data i gave is from the chart made by nearby jyotishi. > Thanks And Regards > Amit > > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > > > With lahiri, moon is in the same rashi as ketu, both whether using > > true or mean nodes. KSY does not exist > > With Raman nodes change sign, but cancellation exists same way with > > other planets. > > > > Please be careful when using KSY to explain mishaps or other > things. > > KSY is not an unconditional jail sentance and all troubles cannot > and > > should not be explained based on KSY, full or partial, perceived or > > manifest. > > > > Does the person have a very sensitive nature, lacks strong self- > > esteem and around early 2001 began to show somewhat deviation from > > his normal personality? Trying new and different things, some not > > positive at all? > > > > Sexual problems (I realize that is a large net) prior to that, and > > problems with 'fitting in' into groups, feeling ill-understood by > > others and similar issues? > > > > Impulsive and rather grandiose expenditures and extreme > restlessness > > in spirit and one who would be happier and better performer in wide > > open spaces rather than confining situations? Like in a progressive > > society, abroad? > > > > Restless sleep, dreams of a restless, active, anxious nature? > > > > Major issues with or concerning elder siblings if they exist, > > particularly an elder sister or cousin sister? > > > > , "amit_call" > <amit_call> > > wrote: > > > > > > Rohini ji > > > The details of native are: > > > > > > DOB:10-Jun-1977 > > > Time:04:00 A.M. > > > Place:Aligarh,U.P..27N54 78E04 > > > The chart casted using Lahiri/KP ayamansa gives KSD while using > > Raman > > > Ayamansa it doesn't. > > > My Understanding of KSD is when all the Planets are between Rahu > > and > > > Ketu. > > > someWhere i read if Any planet joins Ketu or Rahu ..then it is > not > > > KSD.In that case it will not be KSD. > > > If wrong pls correct me. > > > Sincerely > > > Amit kUmar > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Amit, > > > > > > > > This sounds fascinating! Would you care to share the birthdata > > for > > > > the nativity that had KSD only with Lahiri ayanamsha? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "amit_call" > > > <amit_call> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > I thank all the members for postings and throwing light on > this > > > > > Ayamansa confusion. > > > > > This is accepted that Pridiction is one's own ability. > > > > > Also in a magazine of astrology i read a sloka which says "In > > > > > Kaliyuga only a few will be true astrologers and the best > ones' > > > > > pridictive power will only manifest to 25%" > > > > > I do not remember the exact sloka but the meaning was same. > > > > > Also i want to add that some time back i met a Nadi Reader. > > > > > in Nadi i was amazed to see that they told my name,my parents > > > > > name ,some educational background,present condition and a > > little > > > > more. > > > > > also as per Nadi he made a chart and gave to me. > > > > > This chart is same as i get using Lahiri and KP Ayamansa. > > > > > Also one of my friend got a chance to meet a sidhha Purush in > > > > > Bulandshahar(U.P.).He is a young sanyasi.Looking at face he > > said > > > > > something about him..his problems and told that he was having > > > Kaal > > > > > Sarpa Dosha. > > > > > I was very new to astrology at that time.I started reading > abt > > > KSD > > > > > and found that there was really KSD in his chart. > > > > > Now i see this chart is as per Lahiri Ayamansa. > > > > > Other Ayamansa give no KSD. > > > > > Well, its a matter of observation...... > > > > > I have to observe in a time span which chart better explains > my > > > > life > > > > > and which charts Dashas confirms the timing of events. > > > > > As i am new to astrology hence i was hesitating to adopt this > > > > > approach. > > > > > Also i sing with your lines "Intuition is great reliable > tool". > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > Amit Kumar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Amitabh Shastri > > > > > <amitabh_shastri> wrote: > > > > > > Sorry for the delay in response. But you're right. It is > the > > > man > > > > > behind the weapon who counts. The weapon is just a piece of > > > metal, > > > > > wood and other ingredients of which it is composed. > > > > > > The difference between innimate and animate needs to be > > > > understood > > > > > very clearly. > > > > > > Best wishes for a happy and prosperous new year. > > > > > > Amitabh Shastri > > > > > > rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes -- that is my view too, fwiw. > > > > > > > > > > > > rr > > > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope one can use what WORKS for him as INDIVIDUAL > > > astrologer, > > > > > > while > > > > > > > simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of > > others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope I am understanding you correctly, that your > > position > > > > is > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > no specific ayanamsha alone can explain all that > > astrology > > > > (as > > > > > we > > > > > > > > know it) explains. That there are more mysteries that > > lie, > > > > > > Horatio, > > > > > > > > between the heaven and earth? If so, then yes that is > > what > > > I > > > > > was > > > > > > > > saying all along, namely, that there are divinators > that > > > > > > > successfully > > > > > > > > use different ayanamshas, and some that do not even use > > > > > > ayanamshas, > > > > > > > > so no point in agonizing over which ayanamsha is the > only > > > > > > accurate > > > > > > > > one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pardon my crude and cruel analogy, but the aiming > sights > > on > > > a > > > > > > rifle > > > > > > > > while of tremendous help in improving the marksmanship, > > > would > > > > > > alone > > > > > > > > not make one an expert marksman! Ayanamsha is like > > > > that 'sight' > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > definitely is helpful if trained at the target > carefully, > > > > > > however, > > > > > > > > the marksman still must effectively learn to hold the > > rifle > > > > and > > > > > > > > improve their skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most practitioners (present company excepted of > course!) > > in > > > > > > > astrology > > > > > > > > of any kind are at best figuring their way out of this > > > dense > > > > > > > forest, > > > > > > > > even if they may not be brave enough to admit. Your > sage > > > > advice > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > not make ayanamsha a big deal is well-given and finds > > > accord > > > > in > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > own personal outlook. I respond only when I notice > overt > > or > > > > > > covert > > > > > > > > insinuations that a given ayanamsha is somehow the best > > > > without > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > direct and ample proof for such, forthcoming. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > krishnan > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello Rohiniji, > > > > > > > > > The Astronomical studies have confirmed ecliptical > > zodiac > > > > and > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > movements of the planets along with planets was never > > found > > > > to > > > > > be > > > > > > > > unform.So we have all confusions added to the changes > > being > > > > > > > witnessed > > > > > > > > in the planet earth due unpredicatable characterstics > of > > > > > > Nature.I > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > not know whether I can put that even the science finds > it > > > > > > difficult > > > > > > > > to say in precise nature.May be Ayanamsa correction is > a > > > > > specific > > > > > > > > approach from the fixed zodiac of Aries.Westren > Astrology > > > > based > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > accptable solar system too may be able to solve the > > riddles > > > > of > > > > > > > human > > > > > > > > life and anticipated events.Even we in our Astrology > > avoid > > > > > > Neptune > > > > > > > > and Pluto,westren Astrologers attribute great > > significance > > > of > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > two outer planets.Still i believe that the kind of > > > > Shodasamasas > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > have developed can bring out comfortably various > aspects > > of > > > > > life > > > > > > > > including the nature of old age through the aid of > > > divisional > > > > > > chart. > > > > > > > > > Keeping these aspects in mind,probably it is > > appropriate > > > > till > > > > > > > such > > > > > > > > that we are not able to deny Ayanamsa,particularly > > Lahiri's > > > > > > > Ayanamsa > > > > > > > > as useful for our purposes but we do not discount other > > > > > > approaches > > > > > > > > and certainly not their efficacy in predictions. > > > > > > > > > Certainly Astrology,particularly Vedic Astrology to > > > unfold > > > > > the > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > future and past events will always remain to be > connected > > > > with > > > > > > > > intution and if not the sixth sense. > > > > > > > > > In this we have umpteen examples including a 10year > old > > > > > British > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > could recollect from her class rom lessons to say the > > most > > > > > > unusual > > > > > > > > and catsrophic events like Tsunami. > > > > > > > > > Even Late B.V.raman makes it a point to refer to the > > > > accuracy > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > Brahma as the creator of universe. > > > > > > > > > Iam sure our distinguished members may have some more > > > > valuble > > > > > > > > suggestions on the subject. > > > > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw853 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture > > myself > > > > into > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa discussion. > > For > > > > > myself > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting the > > > > personal > > > > > > > > > preferences of others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hello Amitji, > > > > > > > > > > For some time I had the fortune of getting > associated > > > > with > > > > > > > > Phalit > > > > > > > > > jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New > Delhi. > > > > > > > > > > In the committee constituted by the Govt of India > > even > > > > late > > > > > > > Shri > > > > > > > > > B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several vedic > > > > scholars > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > Benares,Haridwar and other places. > > > > > > > > > > Even in these learned institutions research on the > > > > > subjectof > > > > > > > > > Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are > guided > > > > > through > > > > > > > Prof > > > > > > > > > Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India > and > > > > > several > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > Govts too have supported the research and even built > > mini > > > > > > jantar- > > > > > > > > > mantars to calculate the movements of planets and > study > > > the > > > > > > > motion > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > earth.And these effects through research are getting > > > > > published > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati > > university > > > > in > > > > > > > India. > > > > > > > > > > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of > > Lahiri > > > > > > > Ayanamsa.I > > > > > > > > > have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you > want > > to > > > > be > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > before you infer as : > > > > > > > > > > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' > > > > > > > > > > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of Ayanamsa > > in > > > > > Helio > > > > > > > > > Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren > > > Astrologers. > > > > > > > > > > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu > > > > Predictive > > > > > > > > > Astrology through various approaches of Ganith > > jyotish,we > > > > > have > > > > > > > > three > > > > > > > > > different lagnas for harmonising the results arising > > out > > > > the > > > > > > > study > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and > > mostly > > > > Moon > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > lagna.This approach has made us to depend on various > > > > > > mathematical > > > > > > > > > calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a major > > > factor > > > > > of > > > > > > > > study > > > > > > > > > was taken up. > > > > > > > > > > In the case of westren Astrologers and their > > philosophy > > > > in > > > > > > > > handing > > > > > > > > > over good results without elaborate rules and the > > > approach > > > > of > > > > > > > vedic > > > > > > > > > Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve > for > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > sections of this great universe.We like or not the > > basic > > > of > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma > Siddhantam. > > > > > > > > > > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an > > > approach > > > > > > which > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > not deterministic but gives an opportunity for > > > > understanding > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is > not > > > > > possible. > > > > > > > > > > I agree with you when you say: > > > > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have > > > been > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha > at > > > all > > > > > and > > > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and > not > > > just > > > > > one > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results > > > > > > > > > > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional > > element > > > > > where > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand > > predict > > > > any > > > > > > > thing? > > > > > > > > > > In India Astrology is making strides with the > revival > > > > > towards > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > > > understanding and to find it's relevance in modern > > times > > > > and > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > futuristic studies. > > > > > > > > > > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri K.N > > Rao > > > > as > > > > > my > > > > > > > > great > > > > > > > > > Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have > ventured > > > > > myself > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > > > > > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > rohiniranjan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not be personally offended but I have a > bit > > > of > > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > > > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years > ago > > on > > > > his > > > > > > > > > newslist, > > > > > > > > > > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a > > > conclusion > > > > > (he > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') > was > > > > > derived. > > > > > > > > Given > > > > > > > > > > that there must be millions of jyotishis in India > > > itself > > > > > and > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > population growing like a family of rabbits all > over > > > the > > > > > > globe, > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > can one make a statement like that unless a survey > > was > > > > > done. > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > his greatness that he eventually responded saying > > that > > > > > > > somewhere > > > > > > > > (I > > > > > > > > > > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang > makers > > (I > > > > > > recall > > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had > > > > > > congregated > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > some govt. officials and through their > deliberations > > > > > (details > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > which I would be curious to learn but have no clue > > > where > > > > to > > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > > > those or if those were even published or made > > avaiable > > > to > > > > > > > anyone) > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra > > ayanamsha > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > be adopted. I never got the information as to how > > many > > > of > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > fine > > > > > > > > > > individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced > > > jyotish > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > success during their lifetime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri > > ayanamsha > > > > > which > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he > has > > > > > > mentioned > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that > this > > > was > > > > > > close > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > what his astrological guru used/recommended and > also > > > > close > > > > > to > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your > > > time > > > > of > > > > > > > birth > > > > > > > > > > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. > Karve, > > it > > > > > seems > > > > > > > > > looked > > > > > > > > > > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and > with > > > > > lahiri > > > > > > > > > > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students > > > probably > > > > > use > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a > > few > > > so > > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we can say that the vocal majority on internet > > > > > probably > > > > > > > uses > > > > > > > > > > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard > > reference, > > > > > then > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the > > > > > participants > > > > > > > > (less > > > > > > > > > > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those > that > > > ask > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > readings > > > > > > > > > > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be > > the > > > > > > > experience > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, > > express, > > > > > > write). > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the > > > > > astrologers > > > > > > > > > (sorry > > > > > > > > > > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a > > similar > > > > > value. > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha > does > > > not > > > > > work > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In > > > fact > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have > > > been > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha > at > > > all > > > > > and > > > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and > not > > > just > > > > > one > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and > claims > > > > > floating > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > in the ocean of astrology about this or that being > > tge > > > > > > absolute > > > > > > > > > truth > > > > > > > > > > in the field of astrology in general and statements > > > such > > > > as > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > is good for predicting events and tropical better > at > > > > > > describing > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier > > > > written > > > > > > > > > articles, > > > > > > > > > > this is more a reflection of the person and his > > > > background > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > went on to become an astrologer - the economist > drawn > > > to > > > > > > > > > forecasting > > > > > > > > > > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of > the > > > > > > diseases, > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the > > horoscope, > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed > > through > > > > the > > > > > > map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a > > few > > > of > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving such a rich description of the > > human > > > > > > > > experience, > > > > > > > > > > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the > scope > > of > > > > > > > > > comprehension > > > > > > > > > > of any one individual, whether astrologer, > jyotishi, > > > > > > > > tarotomancer, > > > > > > > > > > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa > is > > > used > > > > > in > > > > > > KP > > > > > > > > > > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. > > > It's > > > > up > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa > with > > > > > > > deg:min:sec > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, > pp > > > 1, > > > > 88- > > > > > > 93) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ji Amitji, > > > > > > > > > > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of > > > > discussions > > > > > > due > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > differences it has been agreed that scietifically > > > > prudent > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted > > has > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > recommended > > > > > > > > > > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research > of > > > > Shri > > > > > > > > K.N.Rao > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amit_call wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a confusion over Using different > Ayamansas. > > > > > > > > > > > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please guide me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! 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Guest guest Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Thanks Inder Ji. Thats What his tendencies also say. Regards Amit , "Inder" <indervohra2001> wrote: > > Daer Amit, > I checked the chart with KP. > The birth data are absolutely correct. No correction required. > Saturn is his key planet. Saturn is rising in so many cusps sub.[KP] > So many planets are in sub of Saturn. Saturn in Cacer in Mercury > star shows his personality.Mer in 1st house Taraus. > Unfortunate, despodent,fear complex, gathers information/knowlegge, > severe critical of every thing, not much hope for rise in future. > May go for spritual persuits later in life. > Inder > > , "amit_call" > <amit_call> wrote: > > > > Ji Rohini ji, > > I never say anything about which i do not know with certainty.so > is > > KSY. > > The Analysis you gave is almost right. > > >Does the person have a very sensitive nature, lacks strong self- > > > esteem > > This is true. > > In 2001 He faced comlpex,degrading situations at his Job. > > > > > Sexual problems (I realize that is a large net) prior to that, > and > > > problems with 'fitting in' into groups, feeling ill-understood > by > > > others and similar issues? > > All is Right. > > He has lost his Parents. > > Main problem is his social status.He is a fourth class government > > servent, the job he got after death of his father while in service. > > He is a comlex personality.He is a good critic so much that he > > critices himself too always.But he is not enough strong to change > his > > habits.He doesn't have congenial relations with Relatives(yes with > > family of elder sister),Not much good friends,avoid facing > things.And > > always an unstability,fear kind of thing is felt. > > Also his chart needs some rectification. > > the data i gave is from the chart made by nearby jyotishi. > > Thanks And Regards > > Amit > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > > > > With lahiri, moon is in the same rashi as ketu, both whether > using > > > true or mean nodes. KSY does not exist > > > With Raman nodes change sign, but cancellation exists same way > with > > > other planets. > > > > > > Please be careful when using KSY to explain mishaps or other > > things. > > > KSY is not an unconditional jail sentance and all troubles > cannot > > and > > > should not be explained based on KSY, full or partial, perceived > or > > > manifest. > > > > > > Does the person have a very sensitive nature, lacks strong self- > > > esteem and around early 2001 began to show somewhat deviation > from > > > his normal personality? Trying new and different things, some > not > > > positive at all? > > > > > > Sexual problems (I realize that is a large net) prior to that, > and > > > problems with 'fitting in' into groups, feeling ill-understood > by > > > others and similar issues? > > > > > > Impulsive and rather grandiose expenditures and extreme > > restlessness > > > in spirit and one who would be happier and better performer in > wide > > > open spaces rather than confining situations? Like in a > progressive > > > society, abroad? > > > > > > Restless sleep, dreams of a restless, active, anxious nature? > > > > > > Major issues with or concerning elder siblings if they exist, > > > particularly an elder sister or cousin sister? > > > > > > , "amit_call" > > <amit_call> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Rohini ji > > > > The details of native are: > > > > > > > > DOB:10-Jun-1977 > > > > Time:04:00 A.M. > > > > Place:Aligarh,U.P..27N54 78E04 > > > > The chart casted using Lahiri/KP ayamansa gives KSD while > using > > > Raman > > > > Ayamansa it doesn't. > > > > My Understanding of KSD is when all the Planets are between > Rahu > > > and > > > > Ketu. > > > > someWhere i read if Any planet joins Ketu or Rahu ..then it is > > not > > > > KSD.In that case it will not be KSD. > > > > If wrong pls correct me. > > > > Sincerely > > > > Amit kUmar > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit, > > > > > > > > > > This sounds fascinating! Would you care to share the > birthdata > > > for > > > > > the nativity that had KSD only with Lahiri ayanamsha? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > , "amit_call" > > > > <amit_call> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > I thank all the members for postings and throwing light on > > this > > > > > > Ayamansa confusion. > > > > > > This is accepted that Pridiction is one's own ability. > > > > > > Also in a magazine of astrology i read a sloka which > says "In > > > > > > Kaliyuga only a few will be true astrologers and the best > > ones' > > > > > > pridictive power will only manifest to 25%" > > > > > > I do not remember the exact sloka but the meaning was same. > > > > > > Also i want to add that some time back i met a Nadi Reader. > > > > > > in Nadi i was amazed to see that they told my name,my > parents > > > > > > name ,some educational background,present condition and a > > > little > > > > > more. > > > > > > also as per Nadi he made a chart and gave to me. > > > > > > This chart is same as i get using Lahiri and KP Ayamansa. > > > > > > Also one of my friend got a chance to meet a sidhha Purush > in > > > > > > Bulandshahar(U.P.).He is a young sanyasi.Looking at face > he > > > said > > > > > > something about him..his problems and told that he was > having > > > > Kaal > > > > > > Sarpa Dosha. > > > > > > I was very new to astrology at that time.I started reading > > abt > > > > KSD > > > > > > and found that there was really KSD in his chart. > > > > > > Now i see this chart is as per Lahiri Ayamansa. > > > > > > Other Ayamansa give no KSD. > > > > > > Well, its a matter of observation...... > > > > > > I have to observe in a time span which chart better > explains > > my > > > > > life > > > > > > and which charts Dashas confirms the timing of events. > > > > > > As i am new to astrology hence i was hesitating to adopt > this > > > > > > approach. > > > > > > Also i sing with your lines "Intuition is great reliable > > tool". > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > Amit Kumar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Amitabh Shastri > > > > > > <amitabh_shastri> wrote: > > > > > > > Sorry for the delay in response. But you're right. It is > > the > > > > man > > > > > > behind the weapon who counts. The weapon is just a piece > of > > > > metal, > > > > > > wood and other ingredients of which it is composed. > > > > > > > The difference between innimate and animate needs to be > > > > > understood > > > > > > very clearly. > > > > > > > Best wishes for a happy and prosperous new year. > > > > > > > Amitabh Shastri > > > > > > > rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes -- that is my view too, fwiw. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope one can use what WORKS for him as INDIVIDUAL > > > > astrologer, > > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of > > > others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope I am understanding you correctly, that your > > > position > > > > > is > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > no specific ayanamsha alone can explain all that > > > astrology > > > > > (as > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > know it) explains. That there are more mysteries > that > > > lie, > > > > > > > Horatio, > > > > > > > > > between the heaven and earth? If so, then yes that > is > > > what > > > > I > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > saying all along, namely, that there are divinators > > that > > > > > > > > successfully > > > > > > > > > use different ayanamshas, and some that do not even > use > > > > > > > ayanamshas, > > > > > > > > > so no point in agonizing over which ayanamsha is the > > only > > > > > > > accurate > > > > > > > > > one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pardon my crude and cruel analogy, but the aiming > > sights > > > on > > > > a > > > > > > > rifle > > > > > > > > > while of tremendous help in improving the > marksmanship, > > > > would > > > > > > > alone > > > > > > > > > not make one an expert marksman! Ayanamsha is like > > > > > that 'sight' > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > definitely is helpful if trained at the target > > carefully, > > > > > > > however, > > > > > > > > > the marksman still must effectively learn to hold > the > > > rifle > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > improve their skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most practitioners (present company excepted of > > course!) > > > in > > > > > > > > astrology > > > > > > > > > of any kind are at best figuring their way out of > this > > > > dense > > > > > > > > forest, > > > > > > > > > even if they may not be brave enough to admit. Your > > sage > > > > > advice > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > not make ayanamsha a big deal is well-given and > finds > > > > accord > > > > > in > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > own personal outlook. I respond only when I notice > > overt > > > or > > > > > > > covert > > > > > > > > > insinuations that a given ayanamsha is somehow the > best > > > > > without > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > direct and ample proof for such, forthcoming. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hello Rohiniji, > > > > > > > > > > The Astronomical studies have confirmed ecliptical > > > zodiac > > > > > and > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > movements of the planets along with planets was > never > > > found > > > > > to > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > unform.So we have all confusions added to the > changes > > > being > > > > > > > > witnessed > > > > > > > > > in the planet earth due unpredicatable > characterstics > > of > > > > > > > Nature.I > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > not know whether I can put that even the science > finds > > it > > > > > > > difficult > > > > > > > > > to say in precise nature.May be Ayanamsa correction > is > > a > > > > > > specific > > > > > > > > > approach from the fixed zodiac of Aries.Westren > > Astrology > > > > > based > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > accptable solar system too may be able to solve the > > > riddles > > > > > of > > > > > > > > human > > > > > > > > > life and anticipated events.Even we in our Astrology > > > avoid > > > > > > > Neptune > > > > > > > > > and Pluto,westren Astrologers attribute great > > > significance > > > > of > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > two outer planets.Still i believe that the kind of > > > > > Shodasamasas > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > have developed can bring out comfortably various > > aspects > > > of > > > > > > life > > > > > > > > > including the nature of old age through the aid of > > > > divisional > > > > > > > chart. > > > > > > > > > > Keeping these aspects in mind,probably it is > > > appropriate > > > > > till > > > > > > > > such > > > > > > > > > that we are not able to deny Ayanamsa,particularly > > > Lahiri's > > > > > > > > Ayanamsa > > > > > > > > > as useful for our purposes but we do not discount > other > > > > > > > approaches > > > > > > > > > and certainly not their efficacy in predictions. > > > > > > > > > > Certainly Astrology,particularly Vedic Astrology > to > > > > unfold > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > future and past events will always remain to be > > connected > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > intution and if not the sixth sense. > > > > > > > > > > In this we have umpteen examples including a > 10year > > old > > > > > > British > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > could recollect from her class rom lessons to say > the > > > most > > > > > > > unusual > > > > > > > > > and catsrophic events like Tsunami. > > > > > > > > > > Even Late B.V.raman makes it a point to refer to > the > > > > > accuracy > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > Brahma as the creator of universe. > > > > > > > > > > Iam sure our distinguished members may have some > more > > > > > valuble > > > > > > > > > suggestions on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw853 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture > > > myself > > > > > into > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa > discussion. > > > For > > > > > > myself > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > > new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting > the > > > > > personal > > > > > > > > > > preferences of others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Amitji, > > > > > > > > > > > For some time I had the fortune of getting > > associated > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > Phalit > > > > > > > > > > jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New > > Delhi. > > > > > > > > > > > In the committee constituted by the Govt of > India > > > even > > > > > late > > > > > > > > Shri > > > > > > > > > > B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several > vedic > > > > > scholars > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > Benares,Haridwar and other places. > > > > > > > > > > > Even in these learned institutions research on > the > > > > > > subjectof > > > > > > > > > > Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are > > guided > > > > > > through > > > > > > > > Prof > > > > > > > > > > Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India > > and > > > > > > several > > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > Govts too have supported the research and even > built > > > mini > > > > > > > jantar- > > > > > > > > > > mantars to calculate the movements of planets and > > study > > > > the > > > > > > > > motion > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > earth.And these effects through research are > getting > > > > > > published > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati > > > university > > > > > in > > > > > > > > India. > > > > > > > > > > > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of > > > Lahiri > > > > > > > > Ayanamsa.I > > > > > > > > > > have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you > > want > > > to > > > > > be > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > before you infer as : > > > > > > > > > > > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" > or 'universally' > > > > > > > > > > > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of > Ayanamsa > > > in > > > > > > Helio > > > > > > > > > > Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren > > > > Astrologers. > > > > > > > > > > > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu > > > > > Predictive > > > > > > > > > > Astrology through various approaches of Ganith > > > jyotish,we > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > three > > > > > > > > > > different lagnas for harmonising the results > arising > > > out > > > > > the > > > > > > > > study > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and > > > mostly > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > lagna.This approach has made us to depend on > various > > > > > > > mathematical > > > > > > > > > > calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a > major > > > > factor > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > study > > > > > > > > > > was taken up. > > > > > > > > > > > In the case of westren Astrologers and their > > > philosophy > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > handing > > > > > > > > > > over good results without elaborate rules and the > > > > approach > > > > > of > > > > > > > > vedic > > > > > > > > > > Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to > serve > > for > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > sections of this great universe.We like or not the > > > basic > > > > of > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma > > Siddhantam. > > > > > > > > > > > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an > > > > approach > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > not deterministic but gives an opportunity for > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is > > not > > > > > > possible. > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with you when you say: > > > > > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to > have > > > > been > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no > ayanamsha > > at > > > > all > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and > > not > > > > just > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional > > > element > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand > > > predict > > > > > any > > > > > > > > thing? > > > > > > > > > > > In India Astrology is making strides with the > > revival > > > > > > towards > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > > > > understanding and to find it's relevance in modern > > > times > > > > > and > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > futuristic studies. > > > > > > > > > > > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri > K.N > > > Rao > > > > > as > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > great > > > > > > > > > > Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have > > ventured > > > > > > myself > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > rohiniranjan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not be personally offended but I have > a > > bit > > > > of > > > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > > > > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years > > ago > > > on > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > newslist, > > > > > > > > > > > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a > > > > conclusion > > > > > > (he > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') > > was > > > > > > derived. > > > > > > > > > Given > > > > > > > > > > > that there must be millions of jyotishis in > India > > > > itself > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > population growing like a family of rabbits all > > over > > > > the > > > > > > > globe, > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > > can one make a statement like that unless a > survey > > > was > > > > > > done. > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > his greatness that he eventually responded > saying > > > that > > > > > > > > somewhere > > > > > > > > > (I > > > > > > > > > > > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang > > makers > > > (I > > > > > > > recall > > > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) > had > > > > > > > congregated > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > some govt. officials and through their > > deliberations > > > > > > (details > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > which I would be curious to learn but have no > clue > > > > where > > > > > to > > > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > > > > those or if those were even published or made > > > avaiable > > > > to > > > > > > > > anyone) > > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra > > > ayanamsha > > > > > is > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > be adopted. I never got the information as to > how > > > many > > > > of > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > > fine > > > > > > > > > > > individuals were actually jyotishis, or > practiced > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > success during their lifetime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri > > > ayanamsha > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe > he > > has > > > > > > > mentioned > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that > > this > > > > was > > > > > > > close > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > what his astrological guru used/recommended and > > also > > > > > close > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell > your > > > > time > > > > > of > > > > > > > > birth > > > > > > > > > > > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. > > Karve, > > > it > > > > > > seems > > > > > > > > > > looked > > > > > > > > > > > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and > > with > > > > > > lahiri > > > > > > > > > > > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students > > > > probably > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with > a > > > few > > > > so > > > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > > > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we can say that the vocal majority on > internet > > > > > > probably > > > > > > > > uses > > > > > > > > > > > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard > > > reference, > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the > > > > > > participants > > > > > > > > > (less > > > > > > > > > > > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those > > that > > > > ask > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > readings > > > > > > > > > > > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would > be > > > the > > > > > > > > experience > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, > > > express, > > > > > > > write). > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of > the > > > > > > astrologers > > > > > > > > > > (sorry > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a > > > similar > > > > > > value. > > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha > > does > > > > not > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. > In > > > > fact > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to > have > > > > been > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no > ayanamsha > > at > > > > all > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and > > not > > > > just > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and > > claims > > > > > > floating > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > in the ocean of astrology about this or that > being > > > tge > > > > > > > absolute > > > > > > > > > > truth > > > > > > > > > > > in the field of astrology in general and > statements > > > > such > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > is good for predicting events and tropical > better > > at > > > > > > > describing > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some > earlier > > > > > written > > > > > > > > > > articles, > > > > > > > > > > > this is more a reflection of the person and his > > > > > background > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > > went on to become an astrologer - the economist > > drawn > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > forecasting > > > > > > > > > > > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology > of > > the > > > > > > > diseases, > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the > > > horoscope, > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed > > > through > > > > > the > > > > > > > map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe > a > > > few > > > > of > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving such a rich description of the > > > human > > > > > > > > > experience, > > > > > > > > > > > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the > > scope > > > of > > > > > > > > > > comprehension > > > > > > > > > > > of any one individual, whether astrologer, > > jyotishi, > > > > > > > > > tarotomancer, > > > > > > > > > > > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "tw853" > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP > ayanamsa > > is > > > > used > > > > > > in > > > > > > > KP > > > > > > > > > > > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his > books. > > > > It's > > > > > up > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa > > with > > > > > > > > deg:min:sec > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book > 2003, > > pp > > > > 1, > > > > > 88- > > > > > > > 93) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > vattem > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ji Amitji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of > > > > > discussions > > > > > > > due > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > differences it has been agreed that > scietifically > > > > > prudent > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee > constituted > > > has > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > recommended > > > > > > > > > > > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the > research > > of > > > > > Shri > > > > > > > > > K.N.Rao > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amit_call wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a confusion over Using different > > Ayamansas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using different Ayamansas give different > Charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are > different. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please guide me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! 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Guest guest Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 So, do you still think it is KSY that explains any negative things he is experiencing? And, if not, then how sure are you about this fact proving this or that way which ayanamsha is true ;-) RR , "amit_call" <amit_call> wrote: > > Ji Rohini ji, > I never say anything about which i do not know with certainty.so is > KSY. > The Analysis you gave is almost right. > >Does the person have a very sensitive nature, lacks strong self- > > esteem > This is true. > In 2001 He faced comlpex,degrading situations at his Job. > > > Sexual problems (I realize that is a large net) prior to that, and > > problems with 'fitting in' into groups, feeling ill-understood by > > others and similar issues? > All is Right. > He has lost his Parents. > Main problem is his social status.He is a fourth class government > servent, the job he got after death of his father while in service. > He is a comlex personality.He is a good critic so much that he > critices himself too always.But he is not enough strong to change his > habits.He doesn't have congenial relations with Relatives(yes with > family of elder sister),Not much good friends,avoid facing things.And > always an unstability,fear kind of thing is felt. > Also his chart needs some rectification. > the data i gave is from the chart made by nearby jyotishi. > Thanks And Regards > Amit > > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > > > With lahiri, moon is in the same rashi as ketu, both whether using > > true or mean nodes. KSY does not exist > > With Raman nodes change sign, but cancellation exists same way with > > other planets. > > > > Please be careful when using KSY to explain mishaps or other > things. > > KSY is not an unconditional jail sentance and all troubles cannot > and > > should not be explained based on KSY, full or partial, perceived or > > manifest. > > > > Does the person have a very sensitive nature, lacks strong self- > > esteem and around early 2001 began to show somewhat deviation from > > his normal personality? Trying new and different things, some not > > positive at all? > > > > Sexual problems (I realize that is a large net) prior to that, and > > problems with 'fitting in' into groups, feeling ill-understood by > > others and similar issues? > > > > Impulsive and rather grandiose expenditures and extreme > restlessness > > in spirit and one who would be happier and better performer in wide > > open spaces rather than confining situations? Like in a progressive > > society, abroad? > > > > Restless sleep, dreams of a restless, active, anxious nature? > > > > Major issues with or concerning elder siblings if they exist, > > particularly an elder sister or cousin sister? > > > > , "amit_call" > <amit_call> > > wrote: > > > > > > Rohini ji > > > The details of native are: > > > > > > DOB:10-Jun-1977 > > > Time:04:00 A.M. > > > Place:Aligarh,U.P..27N54 78E04 > > > The chart casted using Lahiri/KP ayamansa gives KSD while using > > Raman > > > Ayamansa it doesn't. > > > My Understanding of KSD is when all the Planets are between Rahu > > and > > > Ketu. > > > someWhere i read if Any planet joins Ketu or Rahu ..then it is > not > > > KSD.In that case it will not be KSD. > > > If wrong pls correct me. > > > Sincerely > > > Amit kUmar > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Amit, > > > > > > > > This sounds fascinating! Would you care to share the birthdata > > for > > > > the nativity that had KSD only with Lahiri ayanamsha? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "amit_call" > > > <amit_call> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > I thank all the members for postings and throwing light on > this > > > > > Ayamansa confusion. > > > > > This is accepted that Pridiction is one's own ability. > > > > > Also in a magazine of astrology i read a sloka which says "In > > > > > Kaliyuga only a few will be true astrologers and the best > ones' > > > > > pridictive power will only manifest to 25%" > > > > > I do not remember the exact sloka but the meaning was same. > > > > > Also i want to add that some time back i met a Nadi Reader. > > > > > in Nadi i was amazed to see that they told my name,my parents > > > > > name ,some educational background,present condition and a > > little > > > > more. > > > > > also as per Nadi he made a chart and gave to me. > > > > > This chart is same as i get using Lahiri and KP Ayamansa. > > > > > Also one of my friend got a chance to meet a sidhha Purush in > > > > > Bulandshahar(U.P.).He is a young sanyasi.Looking at face he > > said > > > > > something about him..his problems and told that he was having > > > Kaal > > > > > Sarpa Dosha. > > > > > I was very new to astrology at that time.I started reading > abt > > > KSD > > > > > and found that there was really KSD in his chart. > > > > > Now i see this chart is as per Lahiri Ayamansa. > > > > > Other Ayamansa give no KSD. > > > > > Well, its a matter of observation...... > > > > > I have to observe in a time span which chart better explains > my > > > > life > > > > > and which charts Dashas confirms the timing of events. > > > > > As i am new to astrology hence i was hesitating to adopt this > > > > > approach. > > > > > Also i sing with your lines "Intuition is great reliable > tool". > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > Amit Kumar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Amitabh Shastri > > > > > <amitabh_shastri> wrote: > > > > > > Sorry for the delay in response. But you're right. It is > the > > > man > > > > > behind the weapon who counts. The weapon is just a piece of > > > metal, > > > > > wood and other ingredients of which it is composed. > > > > > > The difference between innimate and animate needs to be > > > > understood > > > > > very clearly. > > > > > > Best wishes for a happy and prosperous new year. > > > > > > Amitabh Shastri > > > > > > rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes -- that is my view too, fwiw. > > > > > > > > > > > > rr > > > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope one can use what WORKS for him as INDIVIDUAL > > > astrologer, > > > > > > while > > > > > > > simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of > > others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope I am understanding you correctly, that your > > position > > > > is > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > no specific ayanamsha alone can explain all that > > astrology > > > > (as > > > > > we > > > > > > > > know it) explains. That there are more mysteries that > > lie, > > > > > > Horatio, > > > > > > > > between the heaven and earth? If so, then yes that is > > what > > > I > > > > > was > > > > > > > > saying all along, namely, that there are divinators > that > > > > > > > successfully > > > > > > > > use different ayanamshas, and some that do not even use > > > > > > ayanamshas, > > > > > > > > so no point in agonizing over which ayanamsha is the > only > > > > > > accurate > > > > > > > > one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pardon my crude and cruel analogy, but the aiming > sights > > on > > > a > > > > > > rifle > > > > > > > > while of tremendous help in improving the marksmanship, > > > would > > > > > > alone > > > > > > > > not make one an expert marksman! Ayanamsha is like > > > > that 'sight' > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > definitely is helpful if trained at the target > carefully, > > > > > > however, > > > > > > > > the marksman still must effectively learn to hold the > > rifle > > > > and > > > > > > > > improve their skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most practitioners (present company excepted of > course!) > > in > > > > > > > astrology > > > > > > > > of any kind are at best figuring their way out of this > > > dense > > > > > > > forest, > > > > > > > > even if they may not be brave enough to admit. Your > sage > > > > advice > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > not make ayanamsha a big deal is well-given and finds > > > accord > > > > in > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > own personal outlook. I respond only when I notice > overt > > or > > > > > > covert > > > > > > > > insinuations that a given ayanamsha is somehow the best > > > > without > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > direct and ample proof for such, forthcoming. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > krishnan > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello Rohiniji, > > > > > > > > > The Astronomical studies have confirmed ecliptical > > zodiac > > > > and > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > movements of the planets along with planets was never > > found > > > > to > > > > > be > > > > > > > > unform.So we have all confusions added to the changes > > being > > > > > > > witnessed > > > > > > > > in the planet earth due unpredicatable characterstics > of > > > > > > Nature.I > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > not know whether I can put that even the science finds > it > > > > > > difficult > > > > > > > > to say in precise nature.May be Ayanamsa correction is > a > > > > > specific > > > > > > > > approach from the fixed zodiac of Aries.Westren > Astrology > > > > based > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > accptable solar system too may be able to solve the > > riddles > > > > of > > > > > > > human > > > > > > > > life and anticipated events.Even we in our Astrology > > avoid > > > > > > Neptune > > > > > > > > and Pluto,westren Astrologers attribute great > > significance > > > of > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > two outer planets.Still i believe that the kind of > > > > Shodasamasas > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > have developed can bring out comfortably various > aspects > > of > > > > > life > > > > > > > > including the nature of old age through the aid of > > > divisional > > > > > > chart. > > > > > > > > > Keeping these aspects in mind,probably it is > > appropriate > > > > till > > > > > > > such > > > > > > > > that we are not able to deny Ayanamsa,particularly > > Lahiri's > > > > > > > Ayanamsa > > > > > > > > as useful for our purposes but we do not discount other > > > > > > approaches > > > > > > > > and certainly not their efficacy in predictions. > > > > > > > > > Certainly Astrology,particularly Vedic Astrology to > > > unfold > > > > > the > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > future and past events will always remain to be > connected > > > > with > > > > > > > > intution and if not the sixth sense. > > > > > > > > > In this we have umpteen examples including a 10year > old > > > > > British > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > could recollect from her class rom lessons to say the > > most > > > > > > unusual > > > > > > > > and catsrophic events like Tsunami. > > > > > > > > > Even Late B.V.raman makes it a point to refer to the > > > > accuracy > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > Brahma as the creator of universe. > > > > > > > > > Iam sure our distinguished members may have some more > > > > valuble > > > > > > > > suggestions on the subject. > > > > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw853 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture > > myself > > > > into > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa discussion. > > For > > > > > myself > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting the > > > > personal > > > > > > > > > preferences of others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hello Amitji, > > > > > > > > > > For some time I had the fortune of getting > associated > > > > with > > > > > > > > Phalit > > > > > > > > > jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New > Delhi. > > > > > > > > > > In the committee constituted by the Govt of India > > even > > > > late > > > > > > > Shri > > > > > > > > > B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several vedic > > > > scholars > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > Benares,Haridwar and other places. > > > > > > > > > > Even in these learned institutions research on the > > > > > subjectof > > > > > > > > > Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are > guided > > > > > through > > > > > > > Prof > > > > > > > > > Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India > and > > > > > several > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > Govts too have supported the research and even built > > mini > > > > > > jantar- > > > > > > > > > mantars to calculate the movements of planets and > study > > > the > > > > > > > motion > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > earth.And these effects through research are getting > > > > > published > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati > > university > > > > in > > > > > > > India. > > > > > > > > > > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of > > Lahiri > > > > > > > Ayanamsa.I > > > > > > > > > have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you > want > > to > > > > be > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > before you infer as : > > > > > > > > > > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' > > > > > > > > > > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of Ayanamsa > > in > > > > > Helio > > > > > > > > > Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren > > > Astrologers. > > > > > > > > > > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu > > > > Predictive > > > > > > > > > Astrology through various approaches of Ganith > > jyotish,we > > > > > have > > > > > > > > three > > > > > > > > > different lagnas for harmonising the results arising > > out > > > > the > > > > > > > study > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and > > mostly > > > > Moon > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > lagna.This approach has made us to depend on various > > > > > > mathematical > > > > > > > > > calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a major > > > factor > > > > > of > > > > > > > > study > > > > > > > > > was taken up. > > > > > > > > > > In the case of westren Astrologers and their > > philosophy > > > > in > > > > > > > > handing > > > > > > > > > over good results without elaborate rules and the > > > approach > > > > of > > > > > > > vedic > > > > > > > > > Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve > for > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > sections of this great universe.We like or not the > > basic > > > of > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma > Siddhantam. > > > > > > > > > > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an > > > approach > > > > > > which > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > not deterministic but gives an opportunity for > > > > understanding > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is > not > > > > > possible. > > > > > > > > > > I agree with you when you say: > > > > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have > > > been > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha > at > > > all > > > > > and > > > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and > not > > > just > > > > > one > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results > > > > > > > > > > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional > > element > > > > > where > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand > > predict > > > > any > > > > > > > thing? > > > > > > > > > > In India Astrology is making strides with the > revival > > > > > towards > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > > > understanding and to find it's relevance in modern > > times > > > > and > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > futuristic studies. > > > > > > > > > > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri K.N > > Rao > > > > as > > > > > my > > > > > > > > great > > > > > > > > > Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have > ventured > > > > > myself > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > > > > > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > rohiniranjan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not be personally offended but I have a > bit > > > of > > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > > > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years > ago > > on > > > > his > > > > > > > > > newslist, > > > > > > > > > > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a > > > conclusion > > > > > (he > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') > was > > > > > derived. > > > > > > > > Given > > > > > > > > > > that there must be millions of jyotishis in India > > > itself > > > > > and > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > population growing like a family of rabbits all > over > > > the > > > > > > globe, > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > can one make a statement like that unless a survey > > was > > > > > done. > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > his greatness that he eventually responded saying > > that > > > > > > > somewhere > > > > > > > > (I > > > > > > > > > > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang > makers > > (I > > > > > > recall > > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) had > > > > > > congregated > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > some govt. officials and through their > deliberations > > > > > (details > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > which I would be curious to learn but have no clue > > > where > > > > to > > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > > > those or if those were even published or made > > avaiable > > > to > > > > > > > anyone) > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra > > ayanamsha > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > be adopted. I never got the information as to how > > many > > > of > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > fine > > > > > > > > > > individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced > > > jyotish > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > success during their lifetime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri > > ayanamsha > > > > > which > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he > has > > > > > > mentioned > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that > this > > > was > > > > > > close > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > what his astrological guru used/recommended and > also > > > > close > > > > > to > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell your > > > time > > > > of > > > > > > > birth > > > > > > > > > > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. > Karve, > > it > > > > > seems > > > > > > > > > looked > > > > > > > > > > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and > with > > > > > lahiri > > > > > > > > > > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students > > > probably > > > > > use > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with a > > few > > > so > > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we can say that the vocal majority on internet > > > > > probably > > > > > > > uses > > > > > > > > > > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard > > reference, > > > > > then > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the > > > > > participants > > > > > > > > (less > > > > > > > > > > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those > that > > > ask > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > readings > > > > > > > > > > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would be > > the > > > > > > > experience > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, > > express, > > > > > > write). > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the > > > > > astrologers > > > > > > > > > (sorry > > > > > > > > > > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a > > similar > > > > > value. > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha > does > > > not > > > > > work > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. In > > > fact > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to have > > > been > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no ayanamsha > at > > > all > > > > > and > > > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and > not > > > just > > > > > one > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and > claims > > > > > floating > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > in the ocean of astrology about this or that being > > tge > > > > > > absolute > > > > > > > > > truth > > > > > > > > > > in the field of astrology in general and statements > > > such > > > > as > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > is good for predicting events and tropical better > at > > > > > > describing > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some earlier > > > > written > > > > > > > > > articles, > > > > > > > > > > this is more a reflection of the person and his > > > > background > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > went on to become an astrologer - the economist > drawn > > > to > > > > > > > > > forecasting > > > > > > > > > > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of > the > > > > > > diseases, > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the > > horoscope, > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed > > through > > > > the > > > > > > map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe a > > few > > > of > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving such a rich description of the > > human > > > > > > > > experience, > > > > > > > > > > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the > scope > > of > > > > > > > > > comprehension > > > > > > > > > > of any one individual, whether astrologer, > jyotishi, > > > > > > > > tarotomancer, > > > > > > > > > > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa > is > > > used > > > > > in > > > > > > KP > > > > > > > > > > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his books. > > > It's > > > > up > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa > with > > > > > > > deg:min:sec > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book 2003, > pp > > > 1, > > > > 88- > > > > > > 93) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ji Amitji, > > > > > > > > > > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of > > > > discussions > > > > > > due > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > differences it has been agreed that scietifically > > > > prudent > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee constituted > > has > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > recommended > > > > > > > > > > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the research > of > > > > Shri > > > > > > > > K.N.Rao > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amit_call wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a confusion over Using different > Ayamansas. > > > > > > > > > > > > Using different Ayamansas give different Charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please guide me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! 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Guest guest Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Rohini ji, I am very novice to astrology......so was confused with Ayamansas. Some I raed an article explaining that many celebrities had/have KSY. that article intended that KSY is not always responsible for mishaps. This Ayamansa confusion will take time ....as i grow in understadings of astrology i will keep observing ........ Thanks for all your guidance. Regards Amit , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > So, do you still think it is KSY that explains any negative things he > is experiencing? And, if not, then how sure are you about this fact > proving this or that way which ayanamsha is true ;-) > > RR > > , "amit_call" <amit_call> > wrote: > > > > Ji Rohini ji, > > I never say anything about which i do not know with certainty.so is > > KSY. > > The Analysis you gave is almost right. > > >Does the person have a very sensitive nature, lacks strong self- > > > esteem > > This is true. > > In 2001 He faced comlpex,degrading situations at his Job. > > > > > Sexual problems (I realize that is a large net) prior to that, > and > > > problems with 'fitting in' into groups, feeling ill-understood by > > > others and similar issues? > > All is Right. > > He has lost his Parents. > > Main problem is his social status.He is a fourth class government > > servent, the job he got after death of his father while in service. > > He is a comlex personality.He is a good critic so much that he > > critices himself too always.But he is not enough strong to change > his > > habits.He doesn't have congenial relations with Relatives(yes with > > family of elder sister),Not much good friends,avoid facing > things.And > > always an unstability,fear kind of thing is felt. > > Also his chart needs some rectification. > > the data i gave is from the chart made by nearby jyotishi. > > Thanks And Regards > > Amit > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > > > > With lahiri, moon is in the same rashi as ketu, both whether > using > > > true or mean nodes. KSY does not exist > > > With Raman nodes change sign, but cancellation exists same way > with > > > other planets. > > > > > > Please be careful when using KSY to explain mishaps or other > > things. > > > KSY is not an unconditional jail sentance and all troubles cannot > > and > > > should not be explained based on KSY, full or partial, perceived > or > > > manifest. > > > > > > Does the person have a very sensitive nature, lacks strong self- > > > esteem and around early 2001 began to show somewhat deviation > from > > > his normal personality? Trying new and different things, some not > > > positive at all? > > > > > > Sexual problems (I realize that is a large net) prior to that, > and > > > problems with 'fitting in' into groups, feeling ill-understood by > > > others and similar issues? > > > > > > Impulsive and rather grandiose expenditures and extreme > > restlessness > > > in spirit and one who would be happier and better performer in > wide > > > open spaces rather than confining situations? Like in a > progressive > > > society, abroad? > > > > > > Restless sleep, dreams of a restless, active, anxious nature? > > > > > > Major issues with or concerning elder siblings if they exist, > > > particularly an elder sister or cousin sister? > > > > > > , "amit_call" > > <amit_call> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Rohini ji > > > > The details of native are: > > > > > > > > DOB:10-Jun-1977 > > > > Time:04:00 A.M. > > > > Place:Aligarh,U.P..27N54 78E04 > > > > The chart casted using Lahiri/KP ayamansa gives KSD while using > > > Raman > > > > Ayamansa it doesn't. > > > > My Understanding of KSD is when all the Planets are between > Rahu > > > and > > > > Ketu. > > > > someWhere i read if Any planet joins Ketu or Rahu ..then it is > > not > > > > KSD.In that case it will not be KSD. > > > > If wrong pls correct me. > > > > Sincerely > > > > Amit kUmar > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit, > > > > > > > > > > This sounds fascinating! Would you care to share the > birthdata > > > for > > > > > the nativity that had KSD only with Lahiri ayanamsha? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > , "amit_call" > > > > <amit_call> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > I thank all the members for postings and throwing light on > > this > > > > > > Ayamansa confusion. > > > > > > This is accepted that Pridiction is one's own ability. > > > > > > Also in a magazine of astrology i read a sloka which > says "In > > > > > > Kaliyuga only a few will be true astrologers and the best > > ones' > > > > > > pridictive power will only manifest to 25%" > > > > > > I do not remember the exact sloka but the meaning was same. > > > > > > Also i want to add that some time back i met a Nadi Reader. > > > > > > in Nadi i was amazed to see that they told my name,my > parents > > > > > > name ,some educational background,present condition and a > > > little > > > > > more. > > > > > > also as per Nadi he made a chart and gave to me. > > > > > > This chart is same as i get using Lahiri and KP Ayamansa. > > > > > > Also one of my friend got a chance to meet a sidhha Purush > in > > > > > > Bulandshahar(U.P.).He is a young sanyasi.Looking at face he > > > said > > > > > > something about him..his problems and told that he was > having > > > > Kaal > > > > > > Sarpa Dosha. > > > > > > I was very new to astrology at that time.I started reading > > abt > > > > KSD > > > > > > and found that there was really KSD in his chart. > > > > > > Now i see this chart is as per Lahiri Ayamansa. > > > > > > Other Ayamansa give no KSD. > > > > > > Well, its a matter of observation...... > > > > > > I have to observe in a time span which chart better > explains > > my > > > > > life > > > > > > and which charts Dashas confirms the timing of events. > > > > > > As i am new to astrology hence i was hesitating to adopt > this > > > > > > approach. > > > > > > Also i sing with your lines "Intuition is great reliable > > tool". > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > Amit Kumar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Amitabh Shastri > > > > > > <amitabh_shastri> wrote: > > > > > > > Sorry for the delay in response. But you're right. It is > > the > > > > man > > > > > > behind the weapon who counts. The weapon is just a piece of > > > > metal, > > > > > > wood and other ingredients of which it is composed. > > > > > > > The difference between innimate and animate needs to be > > > > > understood > > > > > > very clearly. > > > > > > > Best wishes for a happy and prosperous new year. > > > > > > > Amitabh Shastri > > > > > > > rohiniranjan <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes -- that is my view too, fwiw. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "tw853" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope one can use what WORKS for him as INDIVIDUAL > > > > astrologer, > > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of > > > others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "rohiniranjan" > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope I am understanding you correctly, that your > > > position > > > > > is > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > no specific ayanamsha alone can explain all that > > > astrology > > > > > (as > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > know it) explains. That there are more mysteries that > > > lie, > > > > > > > Horatio, > > > > > > > > > between the heaven and earth? If so, then yes that is > > > what > > > > I > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > saying all along, namely, that there are divinators > > that > > > > > > > > successfully > > > > > > > > > use different ayanamshas, and some that do not even > use > > > > > > > ayanamshas, > > > > > > > > > so no point in agonizing over which ayanamsha is the > > only > > > > > > > accurate > > > > > > > > > one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pardon my crude and cruel analogy, but the aiming > > sights > > > on > > > > a > > > > > > > rifle > > > > > > > > > while of tremendous help in improving the > marksmanship, > > > > would > > > > > > > alone > > > > > > > > > not make one an expert marksman! Ayanamsha is like > > > > > that 'sight' > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > definitely is helpful if trained at the target > > carefully, > > > > > > > however, > > > > > > > > > the marksman still must effectively learn to hold the > > > rifle > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > improve their skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most practitioners (present company excepted of > > course!) > > > in > > > > > > > > astrology > > > > > > > > > of any kind are at best figuring their way out of > this > > > > dense > > > > > > > > forest, > > > > > > > > > even if they may not be brave enough to admit. Your > > sage > > > > > advice > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > not make ayanamsha a big deal is well-given and finds > > > > accord > > > > > in > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > own personal outlook. I respond only when I notice > > overt > > > or > > > > > > > covert > > > > > > > > > insinuations that a given ayanamsha is somehow the > best > > > > > without > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > direct and ample proof for such, forthcoming. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hello Rohiniji, > > > > > > > > > > The Astronomical studies have confirmed ecliptical > > > zodiac > > > > > and > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > movements of the planets along with planets was never > > > found > > > > > to > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > unform.So we have all confusions added to the changes > > > being > > > > > > > > witnessed > > > > > > > > > in the planet earth due unpredicatable characterstics > > of > > > > > > > Nature.I > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > not know whether I can put that even the science > finds > > it > > > > > > > difficult > > > > > > > > > to say in precise nature.May be Ayanamsa correction > is > > a > > > > > > specific > > > > > > > > > approach from the fixed zodiac of Aries.Westren > > Astrology > > > > > based > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > accptable solar system too may be able to solve the > > > riddles > > > > > of > > > > > > > > human > > > > > > > > > life and anticipated events.Even we in our Astrology > > > avoid > > > > > > > Neptune > > > > > > > > > and Pluto,westren Astrologers attribute great > > > significance > > > > of > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > two outer planets.Still i believe that the kind of > > > > > Shodasamasas > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > have developed can bring out comfortably various > > aspects > > > of > > > > > > life > > > > > > > > > including the nature of old age through the aid of > > > > divisional > > > > > > > chart. > > > > > > > > > > Keeping these aspects in mind,probably it is > > > appropriate > > > > > till > > > > > > > > such > > > > > > > > > that we are not able to deny Ayanamsa,particularly > > > Lahiri's > > > > > > > > Ayanamsa > > > > > > > > > as useful for our purposes but we do not discount > other > > > > > > > approaches > > > > > > > > > and certainly not their efficacy in predictions. > > > > > > > > > > Certainly Astrology,particularly Vedic Astrology to > > > > unfold > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > future and past events will always remain to be > > connected > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > intution and if not the sixth sense. > > > > > > > > > > In this we have umpteen examples including a 10year > > old > > > > > > British > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > could recollect from her class rom lessons to say the > > > most > > > > > > > unusual > > > > > > > > > and catsrophic events like Tsunami. > > > > > > > > > > Even Late B.V.raman makes it a point to refer to > the > > > > > accuracy > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > Brahma as the creator of universe. > > > > > > > > > > Iam sure our distinguished members may have some > more > > > > > valuble > > > > > > > > > suggestions on the subject. > > > > > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw853 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fully agree with Vattem Krishnan not to venture > > > myself > > > > > into > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > highly sensitive controversy of ayanamsa > discussion. > > > For > > > > > > myself > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > > new KP ayanamsa, while simultaneously respecting > the > > > > > personal > > > > > > > > > > preferences of others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Amitji, > > > > > > > > > > > For some time I had the fortune of getting > > associated > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > Phalit > > > > > > > > > > jyotish through Rastreeya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth,New > > Delhi. > > > > > > > > > > > In the committee constituted by the Govt of India > > > even > > > > > late > > > > > > > > Shri > > > > > > > > > > B.V.Raman was also a member apart from several > vedic > > > > > scholars > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > Benares,Haridwar and other places. > > > > > > > > > > > Even in these learned institutions research on > the > > > > > > subjectof > > > > > > > > > > Ayanamsa is being caaried out.Most of these are > > guided > > > > > > through > > > > > > > > Prof > > > > > > > > > > Kalyan Dutt Varma,who is now on the bed.Govt India > > and > > > > > > several > > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > Govts too have supported the research and even > built > > > mini > > > > > > > jantar- > > > > > > > > > > mantars to calculate the movements of planets and > > study > > > > the > > > > > > > > motion > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > earth.And these effects through research are > getting > > > > > > published > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > Sanskrit.Infact even you can try from Tirupati > > > university > > > > > in > > > > > > > > India. > > > > > > > > > > > As far as relativity and percentage of usage of > > > Lahiri > > > > > > > > Ayanamsa.I > > > > > > > > > > have no idea.So I go by your statstics.Incase you > > want > > > to > > > > > be > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > before you infer as : > > > > > > > > > > > This is a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally' > > > > > > > > > > > Let us be sincere to find the relevance of > Ayanamsa > > > in > > > > > > Helio > > > > > > > > > > Centric Approach mostly followe by the westren > > > > Astrologers. > > > > > > > > > > > Infact what little I have understood from Hindu > > > > > Predictive > > > > > > > > > > Astrology through various approaches of Ganith > > > jyotish,we > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > three > > > > > > > > > > different lagnas for harmonising the results > arising > > > out > > > > > the > > > > > > > > study > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > natal chart in Astrology.Lagna,Surya as Lagna and > > > mostly > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > lagna.This approach has made us to depend on > various > > > > > > > mathematical > > > > > > > > > > calculations and the relevance of Ayanmsa as a > major > > > > factor > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > study > > > > > > > > > > was taken up. > > > > > > > > > > > In the case of westren Astrologers and their > > > philosophy > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > handing > > > > > > > > > > over good results without elaborate rules and the > > > > approach > > > > > of > > > > > > > > vedic > > > > > > > > > > Astrology based on the tripod(1,5and9) are to serve > > for > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > sections of this great universe.We like or not the > > > basic > > > > of > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > philosophy in Astrology is related to Karma > > Siddhantam. > > > > > > > > > > > In westren thoughts probably they believe in an > > > > approach > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > not deterministic but gives an opportunity for > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > not possible but do not go beyond to say why it is > > not > > > > > > possible. > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with you when you say: > > > > > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to > have > > > > been > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no > ayanamsha > > at > > > > all > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and > > not > > > > just > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not that Astrology has also an intutional > > > element > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > soothe sayers as pointed out by you can off hand > > > predict > > > > > any > > > > > > > > thing? > > > > > > > > > > > In India Astrology is making strides with the > > revival > > > > > > towards > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > > > > understanding and to find it's relevance in modern > > > times > > > > > and > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > futuristic studies. > > > > > > > > > > > Incidentally I believed late B.V.Raman and Shri > K.N > > > Rao > > > > > as > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > great > > > > > > > > > > Gurus bout for whose blessing I would not have > > ventured > > > > > > myself > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > these highly sensitive areas of discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > Thanx > > > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > rohiniranjan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not be personally offended but I have a > > bit > > > > of > > > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > > > > with "mostly" in your statement. Couple of years > > ago > > > on > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > newslist, > > > > > > > > > > > I had asked Mr. Rao directly about how such a > > > > conclusion > > > > > > (he > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > used a statement like "mostly" or 'universally') > > was > > > > > > derived. > > > > > > > > > Given > > > > > > > > > > > that there must be millions of jyotishis in India > > > > itself > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > population growing like a family of rabbits all > > over > > > > the > > > > > > > globe, > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > > can one make a statement like that unless a > survey > > > was > > > > > > done. > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > his greatness that he eventually responded saying > > > that > > > > > > > > somewhere > > > > > > > > > (I > > > > > > > > > > > think in Delhi or Poona) a group of panchaang > > makers > > > (I > > > > > > > recall > > > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > > than 30 but I could be remembering it wrongly) > had > > > > > > > congregated > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > some govt. officials and through their > > deliberations > > > > > > (details > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > which I would be curious to learn but have no > clue > > > > where > > > > > to > > > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > > > > those or if those were even published or made > > > avaiable > > > > to > > > > > > > > anyone) > > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > > come to the conclusion that chitra or chaitra > > > ayanamsha > > > > > is > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > be adopted. I never got the information as to how > > > many > > > > of > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > > fine > > > > > > > > > > > individuals were actually jyotishis, or practiced > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > success during their lifetime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Rao himself follows and recommends Lahiri > > > ayanamsha > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > pretty close to chitra ayanamsha and I believe he > > has > > > > > > > mentioned > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > he got good results with the ayanamsha and that > > this > > > > was > > > > > > > close > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > what his astrological guru used/recommended and > > also > > > > > close > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > values that Mr. Karve the psychic who can tell > your > > > > time > > > > > of > > > > > > > > birth > > > > > > > > > > > just by looking/talking to you, produced. Mr. > > Karve, > > > it > > > > > > seems > > > > > > > > > > looked > > > > > > > > > > > at you, and gave a lagna degree and the date and > > with > > > > > > lahiri > > > > > > > > > > > ayanamsha this value matched. Mr. Rao's students > > > > probably > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsha but I have only interacted with > a > > > few > > > > so > > > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > > > about the ultimate preferences of all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we can say that the vocal majority on > internet > > > > > > probably > > > > > > > > uses > > > > > > > > > > > lahiri ayanamsha. If this list is a standard > > > reference, > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > vocal 'majority' represents less than 1% of the > > > > > > participants > > > > > > > > > (less > > > > > > > > > > > than 26 who discuss jyotish, not counting those > > that > > > > ask > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > readings > > > > > > > > > > > only, OUT of some 2600 members). The same would > be > > > the > > > > > > > > experience > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > other list subpopulations (less than 1% talk, > > > express, > > > > > > > write). > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > can safely assume that at least 1% or less of the > > > > > > astrologers > > > > > > > > > > (sorry > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotishis!) claim to use Lahiri ayanamsha or a > > > similar > > > > > > value. > > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > a *far cry* from "mostly" or 'universally'! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind you, I am not saying that Lahiri ayanamsha > > does > > > > not > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > or that there is necessarily a better ayanamsha. > In > > > > fact > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > many western astrologers who are considered to > have > > > > been > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > > > effective at their craft and they use no > ayanamsha > > at > > > > all > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > > > > with a zodiac that is off by 23 some degrees and > > not > > > > just > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > > > > degrees, and still produce good results! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a lot of myths and suppositions and > > claims > > > > > > floating > > > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > > in the ocean of astrology about this or that > being > > > tge > > > > > > > absolute > > > > > > > > > > truth > > > > > > > > > > > in the field of astrology in general and > statements > > > > such > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > jyotish > > > > > > > > > > > is good for predicting events and tropical better > > at > > > > > > > describing > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > psyche, etc. As I have pointed out in some > earlier > > > > > written > > > > > > > > > > articles, > > > > > > > > > > > this is more a reflection of the person and his > > > > > background > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > > went on to become an astrologer - the economist > > drawn > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > forecasting > > > > > > > > > > > the markets, the doctor focussing on astrology of > > the > > > > > > > diseases, > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > spiritualist seeing the spiritual map in the > > > horoscope, > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > psychologist focusing on the psyche as revealed > > > through > > > > > the > > > > > > > map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The beauty is that the same little map, or maybe > a > > > few > > > > of > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving such a rich description of the > > > human > > > > > > > > > experience, > > > > > > > > > > > the full spectrum of which has been beyond the > > scope > > > of > > > > > > > > > > comprehension > > > > > > > > > > > of any one individual, whether astrologer, > > jyotishi, > > > > > > > > > tarotomancer, > > > > > > > > > > > scryer or some Guru yogi divine! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "tw853" > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear amit_call, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa is mostly used. But KP ayanamsa > > is > > > > used > > > > > > in > > > > > > > KP > > > > > > > > > > > > analysis and Raman ayanamsa is used in his > books. > > > > It's > > > > > up > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > preference of an individual astrologer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. In KP a little bit higher new KP aynamsa > > with > > > > > > > > deg:min:sec > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > advised to use. (KP & Astrology< Year Book > 2003, > > pp > > > > 1, > > > > > 88- > > > > > > > 93) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ji Amitji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Ayanamsa calculations after some kind of > > > > > discussions > > > > > > > due > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > differences it has been agreed that > scietifically > > > > > prudent > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsa.A National Committee > constituted > > > has > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > recommended > > > > > > > > > > > > for adoptation of Lahiri Ayanamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Infact to add to list I also cite the > research > > of > > > > > Shri > > > > > > > > > K.N.Rao > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > renowned Astrologer in Mundane Astrolgy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amit_call wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a confusion over Using different > > Ayamansas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using different Ayamansas give different > Charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lahiri,K.P.,Raman,Krushna...all are different. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please guide me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS > > > SURVIVAL ! > > > > ~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To from this group, send an email > > to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > > > > > Terms > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try > > My > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS > SURVIVAL ! > > ~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > Terms > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The all-new My – Get yours free! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL ! > ~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > Terms > > > > of > > > > > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage > > less. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more > > > fun! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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