Guest guest Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Thanks for your post. You are very right in what you wrote. As far as jyotish is concerned, the camp that wants to put it in the box named science sometimes state that since it was described as a 'shastra', it must have been a science! Wow! One becomes speechless when faced with such "logic"! RR , "vargottama" <vargottama> wrote: > > A bit off tangent, but I want to make the observation that there is > only *one* Indian philosopher of science of some reputation, and > there are only around 3 or 4 academic philosophers of Indian origin. > And no historians of science of Indian orgin exist, AFAIK. > > Which means, as a nation, we have almost nil understanding of > epistemology (the theory of what constitutes knowledge, the varieties > of knowledge, and their interrelations). Many of the claims in the > post below follow directly from that lack of knowledge, particularly > from a faulty understanding of what science is. (It's another matter > that Indians were the leaders in epistemology at one point, but dead > people's knowledge don't count in the knowledge business.) > > Note that I am not disputing the facts presented in the post, but > only the claim that they constitute 'science'. That claim/label needs > a lot of unpacking, which means heavy-duty epistemology, particularly > philosophy of science. Most Indians don't even know that such a field > exists. Which means these facts can only float around the Internet, > and would at best get the status of urban myths. > > The claims about mathematics are more widely accepted, mostly because > mathematics is a lot less nebulous than science (it doesn't have > power, social issues, technology, money and other such messy things > associated with it, at least not as much as science). Also, there are > established histories of mathematics that trace the roots and history > of mathematical concepts. This book is a good start: > > http://pup.princeton.edu/titles/6935.html > > It is interesting to note that Varahamihira is accepted as a > mathematician. > > http://www-groups.dcs.st- and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Varahamihira.html > > http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Indexes/Indians.html > > It may also be interesting to check out the following link. Seems > there is no special fountain of formal thinking abilities under the > Indian subcontinent, people who drink the water in India do not get > any special ability to manipulate abstract symbols, at least not more > than people in other places. > > http://www-groups.dcs.st- and.ac.uk/~history/Indexes/HistoryTopics.html > > Ram > > > , "Shad" <waterpowers> > wrote: > > > > Dear Rohiniranjan Ji, pranam! > > > > what great thing hasn't modern science invented that didn't already > > exist in ancient Indian times?? > > > > Here some inspirational facts, that show that the vedas and it's > > scholars were no blind believers, and that today's science > decorates > > itself with scientific realizations, that aren't their, but have > > been known long before. Gravity is only one of those... > > > > Read and enjoy: > > > > INDIAN SCIENTIFIC HERITAGE: > > > > http://forums.about.com/ab-hinduism/messages/?msg=1138.1 > > > > > > Did you know the following facts… > > > > 1. India invented the Number system. Pingalacharya > > invented `zero.' in 200 BC. > > > > 2. Indians discovered the size, shape, rotation and gravity of > > earth about 1000 years before Kelvin, Galileo, Newton and Copper > > Nicus. Aryabhatta I was the first to explain spherical > > shape, size, diameter, rotaion and correct speed of Earth in 499 > AD. > > > > 3. Newton's law of Gravitational force is an ancient Indian > > discovery. In Siddhanta Siromani ( Bhuvanakosam 6 ) Bhaskaracharya > > II described about gravity of earth about 400 years before Sir > > Isaac Newton. > > > > 4. The place value system, the decimal system was developed in > > India in 100 BC. > > > > 5. Indians discovered Arithmetic and Geometric progression. > > Arithmetic progression is explained in Yajurveda. > > > > 6. Govindaswamin discovered Newton Gauss Interpolation formula > > about 1800 years before Newton. > > > > 7. Vateswaracharya discovered Newton Gauss Backward > > Interpolation formula about 1000 yers before Newton. > > > > 8. Madhavacharya discovered Taylor series of Sine and Cosine > > function about 250 years before Taylor. > > > > 9. Madhavacharya discovered Newton Power series. > > > > 10. Madhavacharya discovered Gregory Leibnitz series for the > > Inverse Tangent about 280 years before Gregory. > > > > 11. Madhavacharya discovered Leibnitz power series for pi about 300 > > years before Leibnitz. > > > > 12. Parameswaracharya discovered Lhuiler's formula about 400 years > > before Lhuiler. > > > > 13. Nilakanta discovered Newton's Infinite Geometric Progression > > convergent series. > > > > 14. Theoroms relating the diameter,volume and circumference of > > circles discovered by Madhavacharya,Puthumana Somayaji,Aryabhatta, > > Bhaskaracharya……. > > > > 15. The value of pi was first calculated by Boudhayana, and he > > discovered Pythagorus Theorem in 800BC. ie 300 years before > > Pythagorus. > > > > 16. Algebra, trigonometry and calculus came from India. Quadratic > > equations were by Sridharacharya in the 11th Century. While the > > Greeks were using only upto a max imum value 1000 , Indians could > go > > upto 18th power of 10 level during Vedic period. > > > > 17. Infinity was well known for ancient Indians. > > > > 18. Positive and Negative numbers and their calculations were > > explained first by Brahmagupta in his book Brahmasputa Siddhanta. > > > > 19. Maharshi Sushruta is the father of surgery. 2600 years ago he > > and health scientists of his time conducted surgeries like > > cesareans, cataract, fractures and urinary stones. Usage of > > anaesthesia was well known in ancient India.He was the first person > > to perform plastic surgery. > > > > 20. When many cultures in the world were only nomadic forest > > dwellers over 5000 years ago, Indians established Harappan culture > > in Sindhu Valley (Indus Valley Civilisation). > > > > 21. The world's first University was established in Takshila in > > 700BC. More than 10,500 students from all over the world studied > > more than 60 subjects. The University of Nalanda built in the 4th > > century BC was one of the greatest achievements of ancient India in > > the field of education. > > > > 22. According to the Forbes magazine, Sanskrit is the most suitable > > language for computer software. > > > > 23. Ayurveda is the earliest school of medicine known to humans. > > > > 24. According to the Gemmological Institute of America, until 1896, > > India was the only source of diamonds to the world. > > > > 25. USA based IEEE has proved what has been a century-old suspicion > > amongst academics that the pioneer of wireless communication was > > Professor Jagdeesh Bose and not Marconi. > > > > 26. The earliest reservoir and dam for irrigation was built in > > Saurashtra. > > > > 27. Chess was invented in India. > > > > 28. The first philosopher who formulated ideas about the atom in a > > systematic manner was Kanada who lived in the 6th century B.C. > > > > 29. All the atomic reactors in the world are in Shiva Linga Shape > > which is an Indian contribution. > > > > 30. Padanjali maharshi discovered Soundwaves. > > > > 31. Yoga is an ancient Indian gift to the world. > > > > 32. Shayanacharya discovered velocity of light. > > > > 33. Maharshi Bharadwaja discovered different types of light rays. > > > > 34. Maharshi Bharadwaja was the first person to give defenition > > about aeroplane. He explained about different types aeroplanes in > > his book "Vimana Thantra" around 2000 years before Right Brothers. > > > > 35. Maharshi Bharadwaja discovered spectrometer. In his "Yantra > > Sarvaswa" he explained about more than 100 instruments. > > > > 36. The different colours of light, VIBGYOR are mentioned in > > Rigveda which was written 6000 years ago. > > > > 37. Maharshi Charaka discovered Psychology and Quantum healing > > system. > > > > 38. Varahamihira discovered the concept of "Budding of plants". > > > > 39. Seven continents are mentioned in Padmapurana. > > > > 40. Judo and karate which are coming to India from the far-east > > originated in ancient India > > > > -om tat sat- > > > > Best regards, > > Shad > > > > > > > > -- In , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Astronauts, space station, other projectiles that leave earth's > > pull > > > and manage to stay out there are the proof that gravity is very > > real > > > and measurable. On the other hand, a simpler example would be a > > bird > > > or a plane that manages to fly away from earth comes falling back > > as > > > soon as it is struck. Proof enough that gravity exists. > > > One can argue in circular logic as much as they want but certain > > > things are very simple and need not be made too complicated. Over > > the > > > years, enough evidence and demonstration has shown adequate > > validity > > > and reproducibility of physical principles for one to not > question > > > physics as being science. Astrology, while potentially and > > desirably > > > capable perhaps of arriving at that point is certainly not there > > yet > > > and would not get there just by wishing. > > > If someone were to come up with a new modality claiming to heal > > > better than existing scientific methods of healing, we would wait > > > till we call those science. This in no way reduces the new > > method's > > > ability to heal or even be superior to existing modalities. > > > Some astrologers tend to think that by calling astrology a > science > > > they would somehow raise its status. Such intellectual slavery is > > > deplorable, is all I would say. Science is not some holy pie in > > the > > > sky. Mother's maternal instincts are not science or scientific > and > > > yet the world will come to a screeching halt without this 'non- > > > scientific' fact. > > > > > > Speaking of facts, there is a lot of myth and fiction in > > astrological > > > repertoire. One of this is the prevailing superstition that there > > is > > > some marvelous hidden body of knowledge only known to some > > families > > > or paramparas. Well perhaps, but we cannot presume that without > > > seeing adequate evidence demonstrated for that clearly. Such is > > > simply not the case. If it was, people who had that knowledge or > > > ability would have come forward and demonstrated through their > > > infalliable predictions. How many such consistent demonstrations > > have > > > we seen in our lifetimes or factually heard of? > > > > > > RR > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Dear RR, I havent been following all posts, so it may sound foolish and out of place to talk now .. however I fully second you in what you have said !! We have to get rid of this notion of accepting things that are branded as science to be the truth and the rest being blind superstitions ! --- rohiniranjan <rrgb wrote: > > I wish you had only taken the time to read my > postings on this > subject before responding in a reflexive way. > > That is exactly what I have been saying all these > years: > a) That modern science is not something superior > b) That astrologers, particularly modern astrologers > should break > away from the mental/intellectual slavery of > thinking science is the > greatest thing, unconditionally, and that astrology > must be declared > and pushed to become a science before it claims its > place in the > universe of respectability. > c) No one would argue that great literature, for > instance, has its > significant role in the shaping of culture and > societies -- and it is > NOT science or scientific even! > d) Why must astrology be forced into being science > as some of the > modern elitists keep pushing it to be? > > rohiniranjan > > > > , "Shad" > <waterpowers> > wrote: > > > > Dear Rohiniranjan Ji, pranam! > > > > what great thing hasn't modern science invented > that didn't already > > exist in ancient Indian times?? > > > > Here some inspirational facts, that show that the > vedas and it's > > scholars were no blind believers, and that today's > science > decorates > > itself with scientific realizations, that aren't > their, but have > > been known long before. Gravity is only one of > those... > > > > Read and enjoy: > > > > INDIAN SCIENTIFIC HERITAGE: > > > > > http://forums.about.com/ab-hinduism/messages/?msg=1138.1 > > > > > > Did you know the following facts… > > > > 1. India invented the Number system. Pingalacharya > > invented `zero.' in 200 BC. > > > > 2. Indians discovered the size, shape, rotation > and gravity of > > earth about 1000 years before Kelvin, Galileo, > Newton and Copper > > Nicus. Aryabhatta I was the first to explain > spherical > > shape, size, diameter, rotaion and correct speed > of Earth in 499 AD. > > > > 3. Newton's law of Gravitational force is an > ancient Indian > > discovery. In Siddhanta Siromani ( Bhuvanakosam 6 > ) Bhaskaracharya > > II described about gravity of earth about 400 > years before Sir > > Isaac Newton. > > > > 4. The place value system, the decimal system was > developed in > > India in 100 BC. > > > > 5. Indians discovered Arithmetic and Geometric > progression. > > Arithmetic progression is explained in Yajurveda. > > > > 6. Govindaswamin discovered Newton Gauss > Interpolation formula > > about 1800 years before Newton. > > > > 7. Vateswaracharya discovered Newton Gauss > Backward > > Interpolation formula about 1000 yers before > Newton. > > > > 8. Madhavacharya discovered Taylor series of Sine > and Cosine > > function about 250 years before Taylor. > > > > 9. Madhavacharya discovered Newton Power series. > > > > 10. Madhavacharya discovered Gregory Leibnitz > series for the > > Inverse Tangent about 280 years before Gregory. > > > > 11. Madhavacharya discovered Leibnitz power series > for pi about 300 > > years before Leibnitz. > > > > 12. Parameswaracharya discovered Lhuiler's formula > about 400 years > > before Lhuiler. > > > > 13. Nilakanta discovered Newton's Infinite > Geometric Progression > > convergent series. > > > > 14. Theoroms relating the diameter,volume and > circumference of > > circles discovered by Madhavacharya,Puthumana > Somayaji,Aryabhatta, > > Bhaskaracharya……. > > > > 15. The value of pi was first calculated by > Boudhayana, and he > > discovered Pythagorus Theorem in 800BC. ie 300 > years before > > Pythagorus. > > > > 16. Algebra, trigonometry and calculus came from > India. Quadratic > > equations were by Sridharacharya in the 11th > Century. While the > > Greeks were using only upto a max imum value 1000 > , Indians could go > > upto 18th power of 10 level during Vedic period. > > > > 17. Infinity was well known for ancient Indians. > > > > 18. Positive and Negative numbers and their > calculations were > > explained first by Brahmagupta in his book > Brahmasputa Siddhanta. > > > > 19. Maharshi Sushruta is the father of surgery. > 2600 years ago he > > and health scientists of his time conducted > surgeries like > > cesareans, cataract, fractures and urinary stones. > Usage of > > anaesthesia was well known in ancient India.He was > the first person > > to perform plastic surgery. > > > > 20. When many cultures in the world were only > nomadic forest > > dwellers over 5000 years ago, Indians established > Harappan culture > > in Sindhu Valley (Indus Valley Civilisation). > > > > 21. The world's first University was established > in Takshila in > > 700BC. More than 10,500 students from all over the > world studied > > more than 60 subjects. The University of Nalanda > built in the 4th > > century BC was one of the greatest achievements of > ancient India in > > the field of education. > > > > 22. According to the Forbes magazine, Sanskrit is > the most suitable > > language for computer software. > > > > 23. Ayurveda is the earliest school of medicine > known to humans. > > > > 24. According to the Gemmological Institute of > America, until 1896, > > India was the only source of diamonds to the > world. > > > > 25. USA based IEEE has proved what has been a > century-old suspicion > > amongst academics that the pioneer of wireless > communication was > > Professor Jagdeesh Bose and not Marconi. > > > > 26. The earliest reservoir and dam for irrigation > was built in > > Saurashtra. > > > > 27. Chess was invented in India. > > > > 28. The first philosopher who formulated ideas > about the atom in a > > systematic manner was Kanada who lived in the 6th > century B.C. > > > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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